On August 29 2012 15:30 FXOBoSs wrote: So I just spoke to a bunch of Koreans about this thread in particular.
Every single one of them responded in the same way. "Dont take a disgruntled gamer at face value".
I dont know any back story, and I dont want to know its none of my business. But I have experienced similar in the past. There is a chance they are highly exaggerating. I am informed, everyones financials are ok. Some better than others, but everyone is doing fine.
I've gotten athe same respone from the progamers I know here as well.
Even when I was living in the prime house, they seemed like they had enough money to get by. I mean they weren't swimming in money like IM or FXO is, but they are doing decently. Often times we would go out to eat, and not at cheap places either, sometimes even going out for McD's was common, and for 10+ of us living in the house, thats was 50,000 plus won just for one meal. This may not be common in all teamhouses, but still. I know by fact that prime isn't poor.
I think people think that all Korean teams apart from IM are broke and don't have 20 won to rub together, that just isn't the case. Most teams have enough to make a profit, but not enough to be sending their players out to foreign events.
Foreign events are a risk for any Korean team, so sending them will always be something that Koreans won't do unless it is a sure thing. This is fairly the same for all foreign teams except for the few bigs ones that can afford to send everyone.
44 dollars to feed 10+ growing kids is actually quite cheap. Thats like 4 dollars per person.
In korea you can get it cheaper than that if you are in a big group.
I pay for expensive bbq for the team when I go, and its like 70 bucks for 16 of us.
Still, in Korea 5,000 won per person would not be something they would do if they had money. comparing I can go out and buy a lot more food cheaply in Korea, for example, Kimbap is like 1000 won per "roll" which is approx a foot long, and its alot healthier. which lets say they all eat tons of food, and they each eat 2 rolls, thats only 20,000 for a shit ton of food. plus you have to know that in Korea, 4 dollars per meal isn't a cheap meal here, it is in the west, but in Korea where the average income is something between 20-30,000 US.
My point still stand on its own though, if teams like prime and such were as poor as TB is implying, then there are 100's of cheaper and healthier food in the area where we could have eaten. The Korean teams aren't struggling for money, but they aren't bathing in it either.
That's a bit of an exaggeration. Kimbap isn't 1 foot long, it's like at most, 6" and they're usually 1,500 won or so. And usually a bit more once you start adding extras in it.
With that being said though, food is much cheaper here. Eating out vs cooking, it's not that big of a difference.
I don't think so much really, I went out today and bought 2 foot long kimbap rolls for 2,000 won that that lasts me an entire day. I have not seen Kimbap for more than 1000 won a roll. unless you go to like gangnam or something.
TB has the advantage in that he's a brand already with a huge following and well established. Best of luck, man. Organising tournaments is hard work, but if someone can do it, it's you.
Just as a note on the location - could you maybe integrate it into the overlay underneath or beside the player's names? That would make the mental link a bit more obvious and in terms of location, it's a prime spot. That's the place my eyes go to most often especially after battles (food count).
Having a few sponsorship logos by the players also says "This is the company who sponsored X" and allows for a really solid chance of getting your logo viewed.
On August 29 2012 15:30 FXOBoSs wrote: So I just spoke to a bunch of Koreans about this thread in particular.
Every single one of them responded in the same way. "Dont take a disgruntled gamer at face value".
I dont know any back story, and I dont want to know its none of my business. But I have experienced similar in the past. There is a chance they are highly exaggerating. I am informed, everyones financials are ok. Some better than others, but everyone is doing fine.
I've gotten athe same respone from the progamers I know here as well.
Even when I was living in the prime house, they seemed like they had enough money to get by. I mean they weren't swimming in money like IM or FXO is, but they are doing decently. Often times we would go out to eat, and not at cheap places either, sometimes even going out for McD's was common, and for 10+ of us living in the house, thats was 50,000 plus won just for one meal. This may not be common in all teamhouses, but still. I know by fact that prime isn't poor.
I think people think that all Korean teams apart from IM are broke and don't have 20 won to rub together, that just isn't the case. Most teams have enough to make a profit, but not enough to be sending their players out to foreign events.
Foreign events are a risk for any Korean team, so sending them will always be something that Koreans won't do unless it is a sure thing. This is fairly the same for all foreign teams except for the few bigs ones that can afford to send everyone.
44 dollars to feed 10+ growing kids is actually quite cheap. Thats like 4 dollars per person.
In korea you can get it cheaper than that if you are in a big group.
I pay for expensive bbq for the team when I go, and its like 70 bucks for 16 of us.
Still, in Korea 5,000 won per person would not be something they would do if they had money. comparing I can go out and buy a lot more food cheaply in Korea, for example, Kimbap is like 1000 won per "roll" which is approx a foot long, and its alot healthier. which lets say they all eat tons of food, and they each eat 2 rolls, thats only 20,000 for a shit ton of food. plus you have to know that in Korea, 4 dollars per meal isn't a cheap meal here, it is in the west, but in Korea where the average income is something between 20-30,000 US.
My point still stand on its own though, if teams like prime and such were as poor as TB is implying, then there are 100's of cheaper and healthier food in the area where we could have eaten. The Korean teams aren't struggling for money, but they aren't bathing in it either.
That's a bit of an exaggeration. Kimbap isn't 1 foot long, it's like at most, 6" and they're usually 1,500 won or so. And usually a bit more once you start adding extras in it.
With that being said though, food is much cheaper here. Eating out vs cooking, it's not that big of a difference.
I don't think so much really, I went out today and bought 2 foot long kimbap rolls for 2,000 won that that lasts me an entire day. I have not seen Kimbap for more than 1000 won a roll. unless you go to like gangnam or something.
I think you don't know how big a foot is. They're usually around 8 slices, 10 if it's a particularly large one, and usually range from 6inches to 8 inches. Clearly your manliness has overestimated a foot (happens to all of us...if you know what i mean). Prices of Kimbab has risen over the last year. It used to be 1000won for a plain kimbab roll, but that has now risen to 1500. A tuna kimbab roll is around 2000-2500 won, and mandu ranges from 2500-5000 won depending on they type and the establishment. Donkas is around 6 or 7, and ramyeon is usally 2500. And trust me when I say these prices are the cheapest, I've lived in Korea jsut over 2, and the 2 full years were in a small country village. Maybe you found bob's discount kimbab, but i'd be suprised it's that cheap.
Prices correct in : most major cities, and I'm including Sangju (gyeongsangbuk), Masan (gyeongsangnam) Daegu, Busan, Pohang, Gyeongju, Gumi, and any other city where I perchanced to eat kimbab. And I eat a lot of it.
On August 29 2012 15:30 FXOBoSs wrote: So I just spoke to a bunch of Koreans about this thread in particular.
Every single one of them responded in the same way. "Dont take a disgruntled gamer at face value".
I dont know any back story, and I dont want to know its none of my business. But I have experienced similar in the past. There is a chance they are highly exaggerating. I am informed, everyones financials are ok. Some better than others, but everyone is doing fine.
I've gotten athe same respone from the progamers I know here as well.
Even when I was living in the prime house, they seemed like they had enough money to get by. I mean they weren't swimming in money like IM or FXO is, but they are doing decently. Often times we would go out to eat, and not at cheap places either, sometimes even going out for McD's was common, and for 10+ of us living in the house, thats was 50,000 plus won just for one meal. This may not be common in all teamhouses, but still. I know by fact that prime isn't poor.
I think people think that all Korean teams apart from IM are broke and don't have 20 won to rub together, that just isn't the case. Most teams have enough to make a profit, but not enough to be sending their players out to foreign events.
Foreign events are a risk for any Korean team, so sending them will always be something that Koreans won't do unless it is a sure thing. This is fairly the same for all foreign teams except for the few bigs ones that can afford to send everyone.
44 dollars to feed 10+ growing kids is actually quite cheap. Thats like 4 dollars per person.
In korea you can get it cheaper than that if you are in a big group.
I pay for expensive bbq for the team when I go, and its like 70 bucks for 16 of us.
Still, in Korea 5,000 won per person would not be something they would do if they had money. comparing I can go out and buy a lot more food cheaply in Korea, for example, Kimbap is like 1000 won per "roll" which is approx a foot long, and its alot healthier. which lets say they all eat tons of food, and they each eat 2 rolls, thats only 20,000 for a shit ton of food. plus you have to know that in Korea, 4 dollars per meal isn't a cheap meal here, it is in the west, but in Korea where the average income is something between 20-30,000 US.
My point still stand on its own though, if teams like prime and such were as poor as TB is implying, then there are 100's of cheaper and healthier food in the area where we could have eaten. The Korean teams aren't struggling for money, but they aren't bathing in it either.
That's a bit of an exaggeration. Kimbap isn't 1 foot long, it's like at most, 6" and they're usually 1,500 won or so. And usually a bit more once you start adding extras in it.
With that being said though, food is much cheaper here. Eating out vs cooking, it's not that big of a difference.
I don't think so much really, I went out today and bought 2 foot long kimbap rolls for 2,000 won that that lasts me an entire day. I have not seen Kimbap for more than 1000 won a roll. unless you go to like gangnam or something.
I think you don't know how big a foot is. They're usually around 8 slices, 10 if it's a particularly large one, and usually range from 6inches to 8 inches. Clearly your manliness has overestimated a foot (happens to all of us...if you know what i mean). Prices of Kimbab has risen over the last year. It used to be 1000won for a plain kimbab roll, but that has now risen to 1500. A tuna kimbab roll is around 2000-2500 won, and mandu ranges from 2500-5000 won depending on they type and the establishment. Donkas is around 6 or 7, and ramyeon is usally 2500. And trust me when I say these prices are the cheapest, I've lived in Korea jsut over 2, and the 2 full years were in a small country village. Maybe you found bob's discount kimbab, but i'd be suprised it's that cheap.
Prices correct in : most major cities, and I'm including Sangju (gyeongsangbuk), Masan (gyeongsangnam) Daegu, Busan, Pohang, Gyeongju, Gumi, and any other city where I perchanced to eat kimbab. And I eat a lot of it.
Then I have no idea why all the resturants I go to here in Bucheon have them for 1000 won a roll, and next time I buy one I'll measure it. BUT my point still stand. I have no idea where this dicussion about the prices of Kimbap came from. but going back to my orignial post on this thread.
Food is extremely cheap here and in general TB has overstated how poor the teams are, none of them are dirt broke (Zenex was though) but none are bathing in money like FXO and IM
On August 29 2012 15:30 FXOBoSs wrote: So I just spoke to a bunch of Koreans about this thread in particular.
Every single one of them responded in the same way. "Dont take a disgruntled gamer at face value".
I dont know any back story, and I dont want to know its none of my business. But I have experienced similar in the past. There is a chance they are highly exaggerating. I am informed, everyones financials are ok. Some better than others, but everyone is doing fine.
I've gotten athe same respone from the progamers I know here as well.
Even when I was living in the prime house, they seemed like they had enough money to get by. I mean they weren't swimming in money like IM or FXO is, but they are doing decently. Often times we would go out to eat, and not at cheap places either, sometimes even going out for McD's was common, and for 10+ of us living in the house, thats was 50,000 plus won just for one meal. This may not be common in all teamhouses, but still. I know by fact that prime isn't poor.
I think people think that all Korean teams apart from IM are broke and don't have 20 won to rub together, that just isn't the case. Most teams have enough to make a profit, but not enough to be sending their players out to foreign events.
Foreign events are a risk for any Korean team, so sending them will always be something that Koreans won't do unless it is a sure thing. This is fairly the same for all foreign teams except for the few bigs ones that can afford to send everyone.
44 dollars to feed 10+ growing kids is actually quite cheap. Thats like 4 dollars per person.
In korea you can get it cheaper than that if you are in a big group.
I pay for expensive bbq for the team when I go, and its like 70 bucks for 16 of us.
Still, in Korea 5,000 won per person would not be something they would do if they had money. comparing I can go out and buy a lot more food cheaply in Korea, for example, Kimbap is like 1000 won per "roll" which is approx a foot long, and its alot healthier. which lets say they all eat tons of food, and they each eat 2 rolls, thats only 20,000 for a shit ton of food. plus you have to know that in Korea, 4 dollars per meal isn't a cheap meal here, it is in the west, but in Korea where the average income is something between 20-30,000 US.
My point still stand on its own though, if teams like prime and such were as poor as TB is implying, then there are 100's of cheaper and healthier food in the area where we could have eaten. The Korean teams aren't struggling for money, but they aren't bathing in it either.
That's a bit of an exaggeration. Kimbap isn't 1 foot long, it's like at most, 6" and they're usually 1,500 won or so. And usually a bit more once you start adding extras in it.
With that being said though, food is much cheaper here. Eating out vs cooking, it's not that big of a difference.
I don't think so much really, I went out today and bought 2 foot long kimbap rolls for 2,000 won that that lasts me an entire day. I have not seen Kimbap for more than 1000 won a roll. unless you go to like gangnam or something.
I think you don't know how big a foot is. They're usually around 8 slices, 10 if it's a particularly large one, and usually range from 6inches to 8 inches. Clearly your manliness has overestimated a foot (happens to all of us...if you know what i mean). Prices of Kimbab has risen over the last year. It used to be 1000won for a plain kimbab roll, but that has now risen to 1500. A tuna kimbab roll is around 2000-2500 won, and mandu ranges from 2500-5000 won depending on they type and the establishment. Donkas is around 6 or 7, and ramyeon is usally 2500. And trust me when I say these prices are the cheapest, I've lived in Korea jsut over 2, and the 2 full years were in a small country village. Maybe you found bob's discount kimbab, but i'd be suprised it's that cheap.
Prices correct in : most major cities, and I'm including Sangju (gyeongsangbuk), Masan (gyeongsangnam) Daegu, Busan, Pohang, Gyeongju, Gumi, and any other city where I perchanced to eat kimbab. And I eat a lot of it.
Then I have no idea why all the resturants I go to here in Bucheon have them for 1000 won a roll, and next time I buy one I'll measure it. BUT my point still stand. I have no idea where this dicussion about the prices of Kimbap came from. but going back to my orignial post on this thread.
Food is extremely cheap here and in general TB has overstated how poor the teams are, none of them are dirt broke (Zenex was though) but none are bathing in money like FXO and IM
I live near Bucheon. But time to go there for Kimbap!
I do not know if I am mixing BW with some kind of real sport, but didn't some BW-maps have sponsors as a part of the map sometimes? I do not know if this would be too subtle, but I know they use it in some sports, big ones as well.
Some very good points! The best suggestion is the integration of sponsors/logos in game. I know someone who has brought this to the attention of blizzard and didn’t have any success – It’s not hard to do. I wish ROI was easier but it is hard to prove activation unless you have a solid plan at tracking them, and in most cases you can’t.
Big organizations will see their sponsors get exposure before the team sponsors do. This perhaps could be setup through better analysis of the player and teams before each match. Eg. X is a member of team X and who is sponsored by X followed by a brief description. The players need to see consistency IMO many of them are not treated well considering they are a pillar of eSports Great post TotalBiscuit
On August 29 2012 22:26 pestilenz wrote: I do not know if I am mixing BW with some kind of real sport, but didn't some BW-maps have sponsors as a part of the map sometimes? I do not know if this would be too subtle, but I know they use it in some sports, big ones as well.
Just korean air's Dreamliner afaik (the decoration/map architecture had an airplane).
I think the overall sponsor situation is not as a dire as pictured by TB. However, sponsors try to pick the cherries from off the cake, in order to imporove the ROI. Companies like Red Bull are willed to invest into tournaments. They grant some nice visibilty.
So what my learning is: the teams most of all have to blame themself. Most so-called pro teams have just incredible average managers...they are not able to explain why I should sponsor 15+ people of whom only one or two will ever get a headline.
Overall i expect a decline of e-sports teams in favour of indvidually sponsored pros similar to golf or tennis players. I would sponsor MMA, but why should I sponsor his 10 sparring partners??? If I sposnor him individually I can decide to how many tournaments I pay him flights etc.
So I am going to do my best right here to not insult anyone, but its difficult.
The sponsorship scene GLOBALLY is a mess. The reason being, most sponsors only want to give products. FXOpen stopped soliciting sponsorships because it became this stupid game of explaining other peoples actions to sponsors. Our sponsorship for our team is the entire cost. Theres no gaps, and our team has aircon/heating non stop 24/7 all year round without issue.
The majority of Korean sponsorships are product based in the hope that in the future, they will get cash.
Now, its easy for you guys to get all riled up crying "NO CASH WTF IS THIS" but you need to look at the dollar value of an e-sport overall. The exposure is small, its to a population that has a loud MINORITY please read these two words instead of jumping on the hate wagon, who whine about paying for anything. (I applaud those who purchase products/use services just because they sponsor sc2, its unfortunate you guys aren't the loudest). They go to any forum and see pointless crap drama about hating on one person, someone leaking nude photos of another, and other childish crap. In the end, its a safer bet to not give money to the teams because of what they are supporting.
I know this is going to go down really badly with the community, but as I have said in the past ALOT has to change for e-sports to continue growing. The Korean scene will start to see some money being pumped into it now that OGN is in sc2, it has more value because its on TV, so I don't think it will be that difficult in the future to solidify some cash sponsorships. That being said, since KESPA jumped over, there are simply too many teams.
Now to your idea of creating korean events.
Well, it won't work.
From a team owners point of view the schedule is way to jammed now to fit any more in. Korean players will have to start forgetting about foreign events just so they can do everything in Korea and still keep up with practice schedules (if they dont do this the KESPA teams will romp them non stop).
The best thing that you can possibly do (total biscuit) is get your outsiders into the scene. You have soooo many followers, and such a loud voice. Its personalities who can bring in the new fresh viewership by advertising campaigns, youtube competitions, twitter competitions etc etc. Throwing some cash money at a scene in prize money will just end up being a waste in my opinion. The merging of the e-sports scene HAS to happen in order for the money to flow. Right now everything is split up, but as an industry, it can be huge.
RE: FXO sponsorship, the FXO team has plenty of money, and we are expanding on that slowly. I dare say that our team is the most financially secure out of the ESF teams right now. I don't know LG IM's situation exactly, but they would be close to the same level right now. The thing is, we aren't relying on sponsors.
Thanks for the post Boss, very informative. Going to give it a try anyway. It is impossible to "waste" money that is being given to progamers and being used to put on fun tournaments for the fans. SCI has always been criticized for "wasting money" on foreigners. Everytime a darkhorse or slumping player is invited there are outcries of such, but the proof of the pudding is in the eating and SCI continues to be successful and pulls in numbers that only TSL can match for online events. Essentially I see no harm in giving it a shot. SCI are short, player-friendly events anyway, it does not take a lot of time out of the practice schedule at all.
Not to mention the most important point. Getting my followers into the scene. How can we possibly do that without SCI? I can cast Korean players and some people will watch them. If I create tournaments involving Korean players, MANY people will watch them. The fact is nobody gives a shit about VoDs anymore. Nobody gives a shit about replays anymore. We are seeing declining VoD views across the board. People want live games, they don't want cross-server anymore either because quite frankly the skill level of players has passed the point where the cross-server lag wasn't really a factor and entered the realm of "holy shit this makes a big difference both to the quality of the game and to the advantage of one player, these results are MEANINGLESS now".
The only solution from my perspective and my position is to get tournaments going over there. Repeatedly shouting "hey look at these Koreans" will not work. Trust me, I have tried.
On August 29 2012 22:26 pestilenz wrote: I do not know if I am mixing BW with some kind of real sport, but didn't some BW-maps have sponsors as a part of the map sometimes? I do not know if this would be too subtle, but I know they use it in some sports, big ones as well.
Just korean air's Dreamliner afaik (the decoration/map architecture had an airplane). + Show Spoiler +
mmmmmmmmm Zergliner :D, I was so happy when this was a MOTW on iccup
On August 29 2012 01:33 LuckyFool wrote: Sc2 still just isn't that popular in Korea compared to bw.
Just look at GSL live events/finals. They don't even nearly compare to bw finals which in their peak were exceeding over 100k live audiences. If I were a sponsor getting involved in something that just isn't popular in my country seems so risky. Not sure how or if it will change, bw fans are being force fed Sc2 now with the removal/switch of OSL and Proleague to SC2 but it remains to be seen if they will actually make the switch or just jump ship.
Fixed for you.
there was never 100k person live audience what are you talking about lol.
I'm talking about people attending live not watching TV or online.
On August 29 2012 01:33 LuckyFool wrote: Sc2 still just isn't that popular in Korea compared to bw.
Just look at GSL live events/finals. They don't even nearly compare to bw finals which in their peak were exceeding over 100k live audiences. If I were a sponsor getting involved in something that just isn't popular in my country seems so risky. Not sure how or if it will change, bw fans are being force fed Sc2 now with the removal/switch of OSL and Proleague to SC2 but it remains to be seen if they will actually make the switch or just jump ship.
Fixed for you.
there was never 100k person live audience what are you talking about lol.
I'm talking about people attending live not watching TV or online.
Gwangali Finals circa 2004-5 had 100k live audiences, I thought.
On August 29 2012 15:30 FXOBoSs wrote: So I just spoke to a bunch of Koreans about this thread in particular.
Every single one of them responded in the same way. "Dont take a disgruntled gamer at face value".
I dont know any back story, and I dont want to know its none of my business. But I have experienced similar in the past. There is a chance they are highly exaggerating. I am informed, everyones financials are ok. Some better than others, but everyone is doing fine.
Sorry for this noob question, but how does a gaming team make money?
Bottom line. It doesn't, it just finds money to spend.
We have an e-sports team because of the internet exposure it generates us rather than a cash in hand thing. Its useful to us because our business is pretty much 100% online.
I think people could only really make money out of it if it was on TV. As in have a cash rich profitable business, not a "more sponsors to spend more money" business model.
Why doesn't your team stream from Twitch rather than Youtube? Is there some exclusive contract I'm not aware of because I think you'd get better viewers and revenue on Twitch.
I do watch the stream when the Terran players are streaming
On August 29 2012 01:19 TotalBiscuit wrote: Hi folks,
Over the last couple of days I've had the chance to speak to several Korean players a great deal about the situation in Korea and was surprised to hear a couple of things.
1) The sponsorship situation in Korea is worse than I thought and the only team that is really well sponsored right now is LG-IM (none of them mentioned FXO though I assume they are doing well too atm)
2) The online tournament scene in Korea is essentially non-existent.
So why are these two facts relevant and is there a link?
Startale recently announced that it would shut down it's League of Legends team due to limited funds and focus entirely on it's SC2 division. Good news for SC2 fans of course and no doubt much cheering and jeering occurred, however it reveals a deep-seated problem. If a team as successful as Startale, who has within it's ranks so much success, cannot maintain it's League of Legends team due to lack of funds, then what on earth is going on over there in terms of sponsorship?
From what the Korean players I have spoken to tell me, things are rather grim right now. LG-IM is stable thanks in no small part to the huge LG sponsorship, by far the biggest in the Korean scene so far. Needless to say it helps that they have arguably the best stable in the world right now. Other teams are merely getting by. You've heard the stories about unsalaried players, well there are plenty of them. Even cutting corners like that, Korean teams are struggling to send anyone but an absolute safe bet over to tournaments like MLG and IPL, even more so to European events where the competition is tougher and the travel more expensive. If you don't nab one of those qualification spots with costs included, then you're going to have a bad time.
Why is the sponsorship situation so difficult? Well unlike SC1, teams are in an awkward spot when it comes to sponsorship ROI. ROI = Return on Investment, you want to at least break even on the value you get out based on the value you put in. If you have a product to sell, ROI could be as simple as selling X more units because of your sponsorship. More often than not though it's much trickier than that, it's hard to directly prove ROI. If I see LG's logo on Nestea's shirt and then go and buy an LG television, how does LG know the cause? Some companies gather data via referral links though that is clearly not relevant in most cases. Others allow you to tell them as you "check out" where you found out about them, but that only really applies if you're buying direct. If I buy an LG TV from Amazon, how on earth can I possibly let LG know that it's because of Nestea? Short answer is, I cannot. As a result, sponsorship ROI often has to be a lot higher than you might think, because you can't accurately track it.
None of that explains the Korean situation though. The problem is multi-faceted. Sponsors want ROI. They want to raise brand awareness and sell units in the demographic of SC2 viewers. However, S.Korea is not actually that big a country with an estimated population of 50 million. The UK is currently sitting closer to 70 million. To make matters worse, SC2 is not actually that popular in Korea right now. It isn't pulling in the numbers SC1 did. As a result, trying to raise brand awareness in the Korean market using SC2 team sponsorship is actually very difficult, the ROI is low. But fear not, for there is one country where advertising is king and ROI is huge! That's right, the United States of America. One of the reasons that Koreans want to come to MLG besides the large prize-pool and good shot at winning it, is the sponsorship exposure. When teams can afford it, they'll send players to MLG because it stands as one of the highest viewed SC2 events alongside IPL and Dreamhack. MLG is also very reliable when it comes to showing sponsorship logos in stage matches with high definition cameras, solid camera work and plenty of booth shots, not to mention the constant presence of player cams during matches. If you get on stage at MLG, your sponsors are happy.
However, constantly flying out to foreign events is not only expensive but can also negatively affect the players. Jetlag, sickness from airtravel, fatigue and of course a lack of practice time all take their toll. Smaller teams cannot afford to send many if any players to large foreign events unless they are able to qualify and get their ticket paid for by the event itself. What a nasty catch-22. Can't afford to send players to foreign events because of lack of sponsorship money, lack of sponsorship money because players aren't being seen at events.
Alright, now why did I mention online tournaments? I asked the Koreans how many there were and the answer? 1. 1 regular event. There have been a handful of attempts but aside from the Korean weekly, that's really about it. I asked if Korean players disliked online events and they said no, actually they enjoy them and want more. It's a chance to win some money, gain some exposure, but not have to travel to the other side of the planet to do it. It's low-risk high-reward for them and also the reason some try to compete in foreign online tournaments though as the skill level of SC2 continues to rise, cross-server player becomes less and less viable and cross-server results less and less important. Right now online tournaments also suffer from another problem, lack of sponsorship ROI. Sure, if you win a big online event, your team will get recognition, but it's not even close to being as effective as that logo on a shirt in 1080p on a big stage with cheering fans. Some teams, realizing this, have taken matters into their own hands with so-called "title sponsorship". This involves placing the sponsor in the user ID of the player. EG is a recent example of this with Raidcall, as are Fnatic. Mousesports also do it with Card Coaches. It's smart but not necessarily effective. Neither of these brands are well known for their acronym. You put LG in IM's name and you know what it is, you put RC or CC and explanation is required. This ambiguity can work in the favor of a sponsor since curious viewers will go and look for information on what these sponsors do, but it also tosses an element of unreliability into the mix.
Is it possible to create an online tournament that provides sponsorship ROI and could that help the situation in Korea?
Online tournaments are primarily watched by Americans, at least according to the analytics from my Twitch and Youtube channels. This is a good thing, sponsors like the American demographic and it opens up a lot of sponsorship options due to the sheer number of products available in such a large and wealthy country. Sponsoring an online tournament makes good business sense, chances are your ROI is gonna be great assuming the tournament is at least marginally successful in terms of views. But what of the players? I've mentioned this before in a previous blog post but no SC2 tournament has tried to do it. My opinion was vindicated by an unlikely party.
Valve understands the problem and implemented an in-game solution in the form of in-game branding. Super smart and considering Valve's history of ineptitude when it comes to eSports, quite the surprise. SC2 has no such system and there's no sign of it coming in either. Sad thing is Blizzard could pull it off, they already have a logo-decal system in the game. If you see MMA play on his European account he clearly has a Blizzcon logo and it looks good. Blizzard could implement a system which would allow authorized teams to display sponsorship logos on command structures for instance. However this probably will not happen so who is responsible for the promotion of sponsors?
Teams can only do so much. How on earth do you promote your sponsors during an online event without having a title sponsor? There is no stage, no cameras, no live audience, your jersey is irrelevant and you might as well be wearing it on your head. Quite frankly, I think this responsibility needs to start falling to tournament organizers. If you broadcast a tournament you have the ability to display sponsorship information in your overlay. The scoreboard would be an ideal place to do so, as would winner splash-screens. I particularly like the idea of displaying the sponsors if the player wins, it just makes sense in a competitive eSport. Win and make your sponsors happy!
Someone needs to step forward and do this so it might as well be me. All future SHOUTcraft tournaments and showmatches will feature the teams sponsors somewhere in the tournament overlay itself.
This all comes back around to the original topic, the sponsorship situation in Korea. It occurs to me that SCI has been focused in the wrong place. While foreigners frequently struggle to get results against Korean players, they are more often than not well-sponsored and at least get paid a nominal amount. Many Korean players don't get paid a thing and their teams struggle to find sponsorship. What Korean team has the number of sponsors that EG is sporting right now? Short answer, none of them do. As a result until the forseeable future I will be looking to focus SCI events and funding on Korea. I wish to create regular online events for Korean players to participate in and give their sponsors reliable exposure and ROI in Europe and America. I want to give Korean teams the opportunity not just to win money but actually build stability via the acquisition of new sponsors. I am hoping that SCI events in Korea will be a small step towards allowing that to happen. I will also look to find corporate sponsorship to fund additional Korean online events.
In the meantime, I would urge online tournaments to start supporting team sponsors rather than just their own. You might say "that's not our responsibility" but you have to understand that eSports is a fragile ecosystem and we depend on each other to ensure it remains alive. It is in your best interests to ensure that more money enters the scene, it benefits you as a tournament organizer, it benefits the viewers and the players. The problem is not going to fix itself, proactive effort is required by those with the power to do so.
Thanks for reading.
So I am going to do my best right here to not insult anyone, but its difficult.
The sponsorship scene GLOBALLY is a mess. The reason being, most sponsors only want to give products. FXOpen stopped soliciting sponsorships because it became this stupid game of explaining other peoples actions to sponsors. Our sponsorship for our team is the entire cost. Theres no gaps, and our team has aircon/heating non stop 24/7 all year round without issue.
The majority of Korean sponsorships are product based in the hope that in the future, they will get cash.
Now, its easy for you guys to get all riled up crying "NO CASH WTF IS THIS" but you need to look at the dollar value of an e-sport overall. The exposure is small, its to a population that has a loud MINORITY please read these two words instead of jumping on the hate wagon, who whine about paying for anything. (I applaud those who purchase products/use services just because they sponsor sc2, its unfortunate you guys aren't the loudest). They go to any forum and see pointless crap drama about hating on one person, someone leaking nude photos of another, and other childish crap. In the end, its a safer bet to not give money to the teams because of what they are supporting.
I know this is going to go down really badly with the community, but as I have said in the past ALOT has to change for e-sports to continue growing. The Korean scene will start to see some money being pumped into it now that OGN is in sc2, it has more value because its on TV, so I don't think it will be that difficult in the future to solidify some cash sponsorships. That being said, since KESPA jumped over, there are simply too many teams.
Now to your idea of creating korean events.
Well, it won't work.
From a team owners point of view the schedule is way to jammed now to fit any more in. Korean players will have to start forgetting about foreign events just so they can do everything in Korea and still keep up with practice schedules (if they dont do this the KESPA teams will romp them non stop).
The best thing that you can possibly do (total biscuit) is get your outsiders into the scene. You have soooo many followers, and such a loud voice. Its personalities who can bring in the new fresh viewership by advertising campaigns, youtube competitions, twitter competitions etc etc. Throwing some cash money at a scene in prize money will just end up being a waste in my opinion. The merging of the e-sports scene HAS to happen in order for the money to flow. Right now everything is split up, but as an industry, it can be huge.
RE: FXO sponsorship, the FXO team has plenty of money, and we are expanding on that slowly. I dare say that our team is the most financially secure out of the ESF teams right now. I don't know LG IM's situation exactly, but they would be close to the same level right now. The thing is, we aren't relying on sponsors.
Literally swimming in forex cash! Jokes aside, I have a question : in your opinion, what exactly would esport need to attract real sponsorship?
On August 29 2012 12:52 Taku wrote: Probability of Blizzard actually doing something innovative and productive to help the esports community without messing it up somehow? ~0% imo.
Yeah lets shit on Blizzard and then go watch their WCS Tournament this weekend which has been a major undertaking and a massive success... But, whatever they arn't doing exactly what we want at all times so fuck those guys.
Seriously, how can anyone blame blizzard for this stuff?
Well if FXOboss and TotalBiscuit could pull their own heads out of their own asses for a second, they might realize that they might work together to make the korean sc2 scene a better place. Both of you dont seem to realize how nicely you could help each other out. You could work together on a seperate project, that would benefit the whole scene (with your combined expertises), but you wont, because you have enough to do with your regular scedules. You will both persue your own interests and this whole debate in this topic is just a waste of space.
I dont doubt for a second that both of you have the noblest intentions concerning the sc2 esports-scene (korea in this matter), but both of you wont cooperate. Which would make this discussion a little bit meaningfull. Both of you can state your points all day long. Boss you do that often enough in your blog, and you dont seem to have the intention of beeing a creative force that changes things, and tb, well he is just a nerd that wants to help the scene grow and if it makes him money, thats a bonus.
Both of you are very outspoken and both of you dont seem to go the last step to really make me believe in you. I might have gotten this all wrong, but if you two are really interested in helping the korean sc2 scene, than why dont you two work together and try to make it better? I guess both of you rather point out the differences between you two , than to do anything like that. Rather point out what is difficult, than try to change anything.
You two speak like you could change something in a meaningfull way, but both of you dont seem to be able to forget your own ego and maybe help things along.
Sorry for that rant. I am a little bit drunk and if my words are confusing, well i am confused enough. @ fxoBoss stop talking, start doing @ TB stop validating with other people, start doing. + @ Both start working together and forget your inflated egos.
On August 31 2012 07:50 BlueFlames wrote: Well if FXOboss and TotalBiscuit could pull their own heads out of their own asses for a second, they might realize that they might work together to make the korean sc2 scene a better place. Both of you dont seem to realize how nicely you could help each other out. You could work together on a seperate project, that would benefit the whole scene (with your combined expertises), but you wont, because you have enough to do with your regular scedules. You will both persue your own interests and this whole debate in this topic is just a waste of space.
I dont doubt for a second that both of you have the noblest intentions concerning the sc2 esports-scene (korea in this matter), but both of you wont cooperate. Which would make this discussion a little bit meaningfull. Both of you can state your points all day long. Boss you do that often enough in your blog, and you dont seem to have the intention of beeing a creative force that changes things, and tb, well he is just a nerd that wants to help the scene grow and if it makes him money, thats a bonus.
Both of you are very outspoken and both of you dont seem to go the last step to really make me believe in you. I might have gotten this all wrong, but if you two are really interested in helping the korean sc2 scene, than why dont you two work together and try to make it better? I guess both of you rather point out the differences between you two , than to do anything like that. Rather point out what is difficult, than try to change anything.
You two speak like you could change something in a meaningfull way, but both of you dont seem to be able to forget your own ego and maybe help things along.
Sorry for that rant. I am a little bit drunk and if my words are confusing, well i am confused enough. @ fxoBoss stop talking, start doing @ TB stop validating with other people, start doing. + @ Both start working together and forget your inflated egos.
What is this project idea? Sober up and post it please.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/maps/392_Flight-Dreamliner.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.fomos.kr/board/issue/1237274285_1.jpg)
