EPTGG town.
Absolutely amazing play from Ange. GJ Shady for stepping up to be a town leader once I died and confirmed you.
Newbie Mini Mafia XXII - Page 66
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
GG town. Absolutely amazing play from Ange. GJ Shady for stepping up to be a town leader once I died and confirmed you. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
I CLAIM MEDIC!  Night 1: On July 30 2012 05:41 Ange777 wrote: So I only got back now and read through the thread. Apparently people still don't see the need to be more active in this game. Voting your strongest scum read and then abstain from further discussion is not exactly pro town behaviour. Especially if there was so much worth of discussion and several people just did not care to comment on other scum candidates expect for Golbat. Keep in mind please that I am not satisfied with goodkarma's (non-existent) response to my accusation. Entering the thread and shifting the discussion from scum hunting to policy lynches ... this is not town play! I still have goodkarma marked as my strongest scum read. SAVE KEI Night 2: On August 02 2012 05:49 Ange777 wrote: Seeing as night is ending and no one else wants to join this discussion is so frustrating. As townie you should really be playing with your win-con in mind. Valid RL excuses are kind of acceptable but you should have known what you signed up for. Even if you just subbed in there has been plenty of time to form an opinion on everybody by now, not stating your reads is anti town play. Going to bed in a couple of minutes (Have to see the doc tomorrow). Keep posting guys. SAVE GK Night 3: On August 05 2012 05:58 Ange777 wrote: So I guess there is a pretty decent chance that I might be shot tonight. As I already stated I am convinced that we have nailed the second scum in Jingle. Veto the case as much as you want Jingle, there is no way you can wriggle yourself out of this. Extremely obvious scum play like this can't be ignored. On to the third scum. Bsed on the theory Shady already mentioned with scum actively trying to counter bandwagon the Zork case there is one more player I think we need to analyze closely. Very much unsuspected by most of the players ... DarthPunk. I believe only goodkarma called him out. Originally I had a town read on him, he came across as a thoughtful poster who analyzed the play of others first before jumping on any kind of bandwagon. Under normal circumstances I probably still wouldn't have noticed him but the recent situation with Zork made me reconsider. See for yourselves: SAVE OBVIOUS Night 4: On August 08 2012 05:59 Ange777 wrote: Another night in which I am not sure whether I'll survive or not. Now here is my candidate for the day 4 lynch. You might have guessed, it's Alan. Originally flying very very low under the radar, I was not really paying attention to him. Naive me! Eventually with all my other scum reads flipping scum or getting town cred he is the only one left from my original list. Read through his filter please. Even compared with aRyuujin's filter it is rather sparse, especially when you look for any kind of clear stances and opinions. Alan has been sheeping town and only giving us few content posts. DarthPunk is not even once mentioned by Alan until late day 3. I don't know why he would not address DarthPunk in his posts except for being scum. Not to mention that he also didn't talk to/about Zork (besides replying to a "Why haven't you answered yet post") before the case against Zork gained momentum. Go and look at Jingle's case on Alan which points to a few of those suspicious posts from Alan: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=353315¤tpage=46#908 This alone would not be damning enough in my eyes if it wasn't for his wishy-washy stance regarding the DarthPunk lynch. He claimed that he is 100% convinced that Jingle is scum but still would be lynching his only second best scum read DarthPunk. I don't know how he went from not mentioning DarthPunk even once to him being his second best scum read. Such a sad thing that scum has not learned how to bus right? -snip- So I hope this can convince you of Alan's scum-alignment. How else would you explain the flip flop play in the last hours before a lynch of his scum buddy? Alan is scum! Don't get uncertain by his defense because if he had believed what he wrote, he would have actually voted DarthPunk as he claimed that in his eyes Jingle got a bit of town cred. *Yes, this scenario is based on the town Jingle theory which I think should be the most probable right now. ANYONE READING THIS? At the beginning I was even afraid of it being to obvious .... SHADY Man, those words with V were really giving me headaches  | ||
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ghost_403
United States1825 Posts
MrMedic will get a standard ban for inactivity. Right now, maybe a warning for JH at worst? Honestly, I have to catch up on the thread before I can give a solid opinion on the matter. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Scum MVP: Alan Town MVP: Keirathi/Ange (wut??? Keirathi? How? Ok hold on let me xplain) On August 10 2012 06:12 ghost_403 wrote: Right now, maybe a warning for JH at worst? Honestly, I have to catch up on the thread before I can give a solid opinion on the matter. I agree; I do not believe JH's behavior in this game warrants a ban. I recommend, however, reading carefully to make your own determination. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Blazinghand's Post Game Thoughts: DEAD PLAYERS FIRST! @Golbat: when you're a blue role that can be confirmed (such as vigilante), even if you think you'll get roleblocked, it's better to claim than to get lynched. You should have claimed. In a way, your death was good because statistically vigis shoot townies most of the time, but you really really really should have claimed. Bad play. @Promethelax: not really sure what you were doing there D2-- you got hit by a case and with a couple scum prodding you you got mislynched. Your lynch is in large part town's fault for not having gotten their shit together. When I saw this post: (link) it was clear the day was gonna end in a mislynch. 6 hours left, nobody's voted, no wagons. Was it your fault for dying? Yes, it's always your own fault for getting lynched. But Town did NOT have its shit together at all D2. The chaotic final 6 hours were scum heaven, and that's everyone's fault. @Keirathi: good work being townie enough to be shot, and good work setting up your masonbuddy to be confirmed and un-counter-claimable. Shady needed the help. The reason you get to share Town MV Something with Ange isn't because your play was anywhere close to on par with hers (sorry!) but because you prevented a Shady Sands mislynch by setting him up with a good mason claim, then getting yourself shot. His constant presence throughout the game, whether he was right or wrong, made the game hellish for scum. Ange gets MVP #1, you get... MV Claim. Yes. That's what you get. @Zorkmid: you needed to counter-bus your teammates earlier, and get bussed earlier. Day 3 for the first scum lynch is actually not bad for scum, but you and your allies clung together far too hard. Don't be afraid to distance, especially as the game gets rolling. If you get lynched, fine, you get lynched-- but don't drag your team down with you. That's not cool at all. @Mord: I'd have liked to see you be a bit more on track early on, but you got onto the right wagons. You were shot because Ange and Shady were unshootable. Good work having solid reads in the second half of the game, and... well, good work surviving in the you vs Zork situation Day 3. You could have easily been lynched and I'd be saying "blah blah try to survive harder". When you have good reads, you need to stick around to pressure them and get answers out of them (to either exonerate them or make them scummier). PS: Always claim roleblocks. ALWAYS. @DP: You did really well early on, and actually came out of the Prom lynch STILL looking townie. Well played! After the Zork lynch, though, you were in a tough situation. Should have bussed, should have bussed. Even so, it was still winnable, but picking a fight with Ange rather than just going with the JH case was a bad move. Try not to mess with people who have so much towncred. You argued rather well, but it was a bad situation, you vs Ange. JH would have been unanimously mislynched with NO analysis gainable from all of town and scum voting him if you'd just sheeped @Obvious: You posted rarely, but had some okay cases. You did a good job avoiding getting lynched, but like Mord, you were mostly shot because scum couldn't shoot at the more confirmed townies since the doctor was alive. Try to be a little more active in your future games if you can, or you could get mislynched. @Alan: You played a great scum game. Bus Zork if you have to next time. With the tools you had and the situation you were in, you did what you could. Spotting Ange's crumbs might have won you the game, if you'd done it on time, but otherwise you played quite well. Scum MVP. coming up next: My thoughts on players alive at the end of the game, plus thoughts on how scum lost. | ||
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
And sorry JingleHell for pushing you so hard. Kept getting frustrated that you were never posting a proper defense =P | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 10 2012 06:12 Ange777 wrote: I CLAIM GIRL ... oh no that was the wrong one >_< ... I CLAIM MEDIC! Night 1: SAVE KEI Night 2: SAVE GK Night 3: SAVE OBVIOUS Night 4: ANYONE READING THIS? At the beginning I was even afraid of it being to obvious .... SHADY Man, those words with V were really giving me headaches I wish there was a heart emoticon somewhere in the smilies and bbcode. | ||
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 10 2012 06:12 Hapahauli wrote: GG Town! Hats off to Ange777 for the DP lynch, as well as Shady Sands - descending the cliff at Helms Deep to get Zorkmid lynched. Heh, yep. Most of the time I was trying to set myself up as the hammer on any votes, so as to make life harder for scum =) | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On August 10 2012 06:25 Shady Sands wrote: Ange is freaking amazing. If town had all been sheeping me we would all be dead by now T_T And sorry JingleHell for pushing you so hard. Kept getting frustrated that you were never posting a proper defense =P I did defend myself properly. I pointed out confirmation bias and WIFOM for what they were, and made the right cases. Now then, since you're in the process of trying to get me a mafia ban because you can't handle the consequences of starting something you can't finish, don't talk to me anymore. It's already really old. I've been trying my hardest to ignore you, and even minutes before the deadline you were posting HOPING that the unanimous vote would be wrong so you could lynch me next. I call that provocation. So go away and let me ignore you already. | ||
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
 @Shady: Do you know what really frustrated me? Everytime I made a case the confirmed townie just didn't agree with me :D You were always for lynching someone else first ... ^^ | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Blazinghand's Post-Game Thoughts: LIVING PEOPLE @JingleHell: I'm gonna be honest with you, you had some good reads this game. You really did. And you came in as a replacement, with the benefit of the doubt, and all the chances in the world to save town. But you also came in with a big chip on your shoulder, or something. When bullshit cases were brought against you... you sabotaged yourself so hard this game I was frankly astonished. It was modestly clear you were town, but you'd pissed everyone off with your insults and your condescension so much you almost got lynched anyways. We are not machines, my friend. We have emotions and illogic and all those things that come with being human-- when you are a dick to people, you reap what you sow. The cases against you were all bullshit, and I get you were mad. You shouldn't be warned or banned for your play, since, well, it WAS frustrating. I've been there. But now that we're in the post game, cut the insults and calm down. Next time, don't let a crappy situation get to you. Your insults hurt your ability to defend yourself this game, since people... well, they were insulted. It made them angry at you. Don't hurt your cred like that. Good reads, though. 5/5 for reads, 1/5 for convincing people. Again. I get it, the game was frustrating. But you need to relax. It's a game. Don't let one scuffle with Shady here cloud your interactions with the guy. He's a nice guy! He was pushing you during the final day because... well, you literally didn't post. I also told him to keep on pushing his other scumreads on the final day regardless, because if Alan flipped town, he'd need good analysis to find the last scum. You can't criticize him for that. aRyuujin: This could easily have been the story of how you lurked and got lynched for it. You had a good read on DP and argued with him extensively, so it isn't. Be more active next game. I know some of it is timezones and some of it is how much time you have to play, but part of proving yourself townie is consistently demonstrating your towniness via scumhunting. Shady Sands: I coached you the most extensively out of any player here, and I think you know what I have to say, but I might as well say it: don't over-rely on claiming, or on blue roles. Your search for the doctor nearly outed Ange several times, and the dangerous assumption that Alan could only be the Doc or scum could easily have misled you. Focus on scumhunting in the lategame, not on trying to find a way around scumhunting (like reading DP's death-post, for example). In terms of playstyle, you do a good job of saying what's on your mind, but explaining your logic a bit further would help, since your voting and cases seem swingy and random at times. If you weren't confirmed town, you'd likely have been mislynched this game, but then again, maybe you were playing this way BECAUSE you were confirmed town. Try to lay out your reasoning clearly when you talk and vote, and don't ever stop pressuring people. Don't worry when people get mad, as an aside-- it's part of the game. Ange: Solid reads, good cases, amazing N1 save. Good job going all game without being shot as the doctor. That's really all I have to say. I barely had to coach you (except to advise you that claiming before LYLO is unwise without specific info), all things considered. I have nothing else to add other than that you're a scary arguer, and remind me to roll town in any games I have with you in the future. Goodkarma: I liked that you were willing to stick your neck out with that early case on Prom. I think you were wrong, but for the right reasons, and I also think you remained healthily skeptical of voteswitches and confirmed townlike players as the game went on. The one thing I have to say is that your low posting during the Zork lynch and the subsequent days was disappointing. When you do post, you provide great analysis, and I think you're a smart player. But you were vulnerable to being mislynched at some point | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On August 10 2012 06:39 syllogism wrote: I'm curious, where does everyone learn and subsequently learn to misuse the term WIFOM? It's basically never applicable and everyone should stop using it. It's very applicable when it's being used as a substitute. WIFOM is the circular reasoning that results from trying to determine the choices of an opponent who acted with full knowledge that their behavior would be subject to scrutiny. From MafiiaScum's wiki. That's exactly what I'm talking about. No matter what the scenario was, it was treated as evidence that I was scum, even if it contradicted previous reasons I was scummy. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
1) You need to bus 2) picking fights with high-cred townies is danger towne. I've seen it done, but rarely well 3) not spotting ange's crumbs all game really drowned you guys. Don't always assume blues will lurk. Some players who are naturally active will be equally active as both blues and greens Some thoughts for town: Don't let someone being a dick blind you from your scumreads. JH was a dick, but he was also a dick who was trying to deal with a case and having trouble with it. I probably would have mislynched him, but don't let things that are null-tells (being a dick) get in the way of play. ~100% of the time that WIFOM was mentioned this game, it wasn't WIFOM. JH is especially guilty of this! Shady as well. The D2 lynch was really really bad. First 24 hours, make cases and scumhunt. Second 24 hours, try to consolidate while you scumhunt. having the voting tied at 1-1-1-1 with 6 players not voting at 6 hours remaining is literally not acceptable. Good game, everyone! E: On August 10 2012 06:43 JingleHell wrote: That's exactly what I'm talking about. No matter what the scenario was, it was treated as evidence that I was scum, even if it contradicted previous reasons I was scummy. It wasn't about reasoning. Some of it was scum pushing you, and some of it was people you'd pissed off or condescended to pushing you. If you literally make people angry at you, they'll often stop being reasonable. Take some time to relax, then come back and read the post-game chatter. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
I do not know the circumstances you specifically used the term and given that everyone else was using it too, I'm not focusing on you in particular. All I am saying is that everyone should stop using it. It does not add any value to your argument nor does it weaken whatever you are arguing against. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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