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@Jingle. I have a town read on you because you are experiencing exactly what I am experiencing. If the same people that are trying to mislynch you are also trying to mislynch me. I assume you must be town. If you think there is an ulterior motive for me believing you to be town and that that is enough reason to vote for me, so be it.
That being said. I will continue to post cases and defend myself but I am sheeping shadys vote no matter what this cycle. If shady votes for me I will vote for myself etc. The reason for this is that the situation is bad at the moment. a mess really. I will sheep the vote of the confirmed town. Whilst still contributing as much as possible.
If I had to vote for someone right now it would be aRyuujin he had less than a pages worth of filter but has LEAPT into action now more than one person is considering voting for him. I mean read his filter. the contrast is obvious.
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+ Show Spoiler +On August 06 2012 15:26 DarthPunk wrote:@ aRyuujins ROFLCASEShow nested quote +On August 06 2012 13:43 aRyuujin wrote:
This line of reasoning is going to seem a bit silly, but I think it's just piling onto the evidence DP has left us. + Show Spoiler + happened at 3:05, after which DP immediately posts voting for Zork, (looks like he started writing that post before zork pulled the whole claim thing). DP posts again 4 minutes after Zork's claim. I think it's quite possible for them to have decided on the mafia qt, "k, bros, imma pull this stunt so u can accuse me," Zork claims, and immediately DP responds, helping him cover for the fact that he was SUCH a late switcher. Thought this has been brought up by Mordanis and Ange, it's pretty much disregarded because it's so situational. (It pretty much gets forgotten) The thing that makes this move from 100% WIFOM to kind of useful imo is this post: + Show Spoiler + Here, he defends himself from the accusations of Ange and Mord by saying it was late. However, he doesn't talk about ANY other part of those cases. Instead, he just brings up irl problems why he couldn't. The biggest thing here is that he says he was up an extra hour. Why the hell did that happen? When I saw that post, I was like k, wtf is he doing, and voted him and moved on. Especially considering he says it was incredibly late in the morning, (and that during this hour all he did was make two tiny posts at the very end) it sounds to me like he's just trying to paint himself as a mislead townie brought to his senses by Zork's move.
Yes, this is weak. However, it is just icing on the proverbial cake. This is nothing. I have also already responded to this several times in what I believe to be a satisfactory way. It is interesting that there is so little to go off that half a page of your 'case' on me is so impotent. It is also interesting that once again you are bringing nothing to the thread or the case on me that is new or original. Just once again repeating allegations that others have stated and I have cleared up. About staying up an hour later. I was interested in the medic claim and I was finishing watching heros game in ASUS ROG whilst I was in bed. I did fully intend on going to bed however I changed my mind (oh my god how scummy wtf?) I was posting my Vote switch at the time and did not see the zork claim. Just from reading my next post this should be clear as I immediately address it. I switched to prevent a no lynch. nothing more, nothing less. I said I would do this at the very beginning and I stuck to it. I don't know why this seems to be so difficult to understand but that is what happened. As you say this allegation is piss weak. and I don;t know how many times people like yourself will bring it up when I have already addressed it. If you are going to make a case. Might I suggest instead of repeating others ad nauseum you actually contribute some original thought. or anything. at all. In no way does this constitute any part of a case. Just saying it is suspicious does not mean anything. Moving on. Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 13:43 aRyuujin wrote:
Something that I don't think has been brought up in this context is this post:
+ Show Spoiler +
Once more, though it's not an IRONCLAD HARDCORE damning post, it's something that seems very... interesting.
Essentially, Ange begins to link Zorkmid and JingleHell. Darthpunk strikes that down without providing much real evidence, and begins accusing Ange. Why? Because he/she is making these connections. DP even says something to that degree, at
I initially had a small town read on you but after actually reading through the discussion between yourself and jingle I am starting to worry about you. Your reaction to jingle's pressure was an incredibly disproportionate response, and trying to draw a connection to a case you posted hours after jingle had first cast suspicion on you is very suspicious to me.
I don't see any connections whatsoever between Jingles pressure on you and your case on zork. I have no idea why you would try and draw a connection that wasn't there.
. If you reread this section of the post, it's quite obviously leaning towards a scumDarthpunk trying to protect his scum buddies. He even goes on to make this post (talking to Ange)
You seem to have been desperate to link jingle hell to your zorkmid case even though his case on you began hours earlier. You asked me several times to state why I felt the Zork case was weaker, and are now using all those answers you dug for yesterday in order to build a case that isn't there. It seems as if you 100% KNEW that zork would flip red. And then desperately tried to manufacture connections to him wherever you could. I can 100% see a scum motivation for this you bussed zork and not only gained 'confirmed town' status but have also set up 2 mislynches.
, further showing his determination to bust that link. So you are saying that I need to provide evidence in order to prove something isn't there? Really? Ange needed to provide evidence something was there. Something other than Jingle is accusing me whilst I accuse someone else. That is not a link. Jingle started against Ange HOURS before that. and at that time this was her entire argument. So not providing evidence for a link existing is townie. But me asking for evidence for a link existing is? Right. Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 13:43 aRyuujin wrote:
And finally, as I mentioned earlier, if you look at the last page of his filter, he progressively gets more and more emotional and lashes out at the people who accuse him. Like I noted when discussing Jingle, this seems to be a fairly scum move. So the only case you have that is new or not retarded is that you perceive emotion in a text base game which is incredibly difficult to both convey and perceive emotion through. I don't know how to respond to your perceptions of emotion that isn't there. but next time you write a wall of text 'case' against me could you please include a case? If anyone sees something important could someone please convey it to me. Concisely if possible lol.
You did exactly what I said you'd do in the first paragraph...
Make sure that scum can't take advantage of this. They must address the whole post, or the conclusion. Not just cherry pick some parts. (I'm especially expecting DP to try to dismantle the first point against him, and try to shift the whole portion against him to that)
Come on, man. I expected better than this!
Anyway, DP, why don't you provide us with your own opinions?
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On August 06 2012 14:26 aRyuujin wrote:
@Shady:
Why not kill the guaranteed scum now? unless you're of the opinion that me/Jingle or alan/jingle(which I think we basically ruled out) is more likely than DP/alan, then it's objectively better not to risk that 1% that we end up mislynching Jingle.
Also, in case the mods don't see my vote tangled up in the huge post I made up above, I voted DP:
##unvote and ##vote Darthpunk
And Shady, if the consensus is still that we need to lynch Jingle first, rest assured that I will vote Jingle over a mislynch. I just believe that it's in our best interests to hit DP first.
Of course it is in your best interest to lynch me first. I am under suspicion and am accusing you. You said not that long ago that Jingle was the best to lynch first. The thing that has changed? I cast suspicion onto you. That's it. Can you be any more transparent? LOL I am 100% sure if GK had voted mordanis that you would be all over her like a bad salesman. Yet you sheeped my case on mord and are 100% innocent? LMAO
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On August 06 2012 15:40 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 14:26 aRyuujin wrote:
@Shady:
Why not kill the guaranteed scum now? unless you're of the opinion that me/Jingle or alan/jingle(which I think we basically ruled out) is more likely than DP/alan, then it's objectively better not to risk that 1% that we end up mislynching Jingle.
Also, in case the mods don't see my vote tangled up in the huge post I made up above, I voted DP:
##unvote and ##vote Darthpunk
And Shady, if the consensus is still that we need to lynch Jingle first, rest assured that I will vote Jingle over a mislynch. I just believe that it's in our best interests to hit DP first. Of course it is in your best interest to lynch me first. I am under suspicion and am accusing you. You said not that long ago that Jingle was the best to lynch first. The thing that has changed? I cast suspicion onto you. That's it. Can you be any more transparent? LOL I am 100% sure if GK had voted mordanis that you would be all over her like a bad salesman. Yet you sheeped my case on mord and are 100% innocent? LMAO
Why don't you address my conclusion rather than getting all worked up?
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On August 06 2012 15:36 aRyuujin wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 06 2012 15:26 DarthPunk wrote:@ aRyuujins ROFLCASEShow nested quote +On August 06 2012 13:43 aRyuujin wrote:
This line of reasoning is going to seem a bit silly, but I think it's just piling onto the evidence DP has left us. + Show Spoiler + happened at 3:05, after which DP immediately posts voting for Zork, (looks like he started writing that post before zork pulled the whole claim thing). DP posts again 4 minutes after Zork's claim. I think it's quite possible for them to have decided on the mafia qt, "k, bros, imma pull this stunt so u can accuse me," Zork claims, and immediately DP responds, helping him cover for the fact that he was SUCH a late switcher. Thought this has been brought up by Mordanis and Ange, it's pretty much disregarded because it's so situational. (It pretty much gets forgotten) The thing that makes this move from 100% WIFOM to kind of useful imo is this post: + Show Spoiler + Here, he defends himself from the accusations of Ange and Mord by saying it was late. However, he doesn't talk about ANY other part of those cases. Instead, he just brings up irl problems why he couldn't. The biggest thing here is that he says he was up an extra hour. Why the hell did that happen? When I saw that post, I was like k, wtf is he doing, and voted him and moved on. Especially considering he says it was incredibly late in the morning, (and that during this hour all he did was make two tiny posts at the very end) it sounds to me like he's just trying to paint himself as a mislead townie brought to his senses by Zork's move.
Yes, this is weak. However, it is just icing on the proverbial cake. This is nothing. I have also already responded to this several times in what I believe to be a satisfactory way. It is interesting that there is so little to go off that half a page of your 'case' on me is so impotent. It is also interesting that once again you are bringing nothing to the thread or the case on me that is new or original. Just once again repeating allegations that others have stated and I have cleared up. About staying up an hour later. I was interested in the medic claim and I was finishing watching heros game in ASUS ROG whilst I was in bed. I did fully intend on going to bed however I changed my mind (oh my god how scummy wtf?) I was posting my Vote switch at the time and did not see the zork claim. Just from reading my next post this should be clear as I immediately address it. I switched to prevent a no lynch. nothing more, nothing less. I said I would do this at the very beginning and I stuck to it. I don't know why this seems to be so difficult to understand but that is what happened. As you say this allegation is piss weak. and I don;t know how many times people like yourself will bring it up when I have already addressed it. If you are going to make a case. Might I suggest instead of repeating others ad nauseum you actually contribute some original thought. or anything. at all. In no way does this constitute any part of a case. Just saying it is suspicious does not mean anything. Moving on. Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 13:43 aRyuujin wrote:
Something that I don't think has been brought up in this context is this post:
+ Show Spoiler +
Once more, though it's not an IRONCLAD HARDCORE damning post, it's something that seems very... interesting.
Essentially, Ange begins to link Zorkmid and JingleHell. Darthpunk strikes that down without providing much real evidence, and begins accusing Ange. Why? Because he/she is making these connections. DP even says something to that degree, at
I initially had a small town read on you but after actually reading through the discussion between yourself and jingle I am starting to worry about you. Your reaction to jingle's pressure was an incredibly disproportionate response, and trying to draw a connection to a case you posted hours after jingle had first cast suspicion on you is very suspicious to me.
I don't see any connections whatsoever between Jingles pressure on you and your case on zork. I have no idea why you would try and draw a connection that wasn't there.
. If you reread this section of the post, it's quite obviously leaning towards a scumDarthpunk trying to protect his scum buddies. He even goes on to make this post (talking to Ange)
You seem to have been desperate to link jingle hell to your zorkmid case even though his case on you began hours earlier. You asked me several times to state why I felt the Zork case was weaker, and are now using all those answers you dug for yesterday in order to build a case that isn't there. It seems as if you 100% KNEW that zork would flip red. And then desperately tried to manufacture connections to him wherever you could. I can 100% see a scum motivation for this you bussed zork and not only gained 'confirmed town' status but have also set up 2 mislynches.
, further showing his determination to bust that link. So you are saying that I need to provide evidence in order to prove something isn't there? Really? Ange needed to provide evidence something was there. Something other than Jingle is accusing me whilst I accuse someone else. That is not a link. Jingle started against Ange HOURS before that. and at that time this was her entire argument. So not providing evidence for a link existing is townie. But me asking for evidence for a link existing is? Right. Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 13:43 aRyuujin wrote:
And finally, as I mentioned earlier, if you look at the last page of his filter, he progressively gets more and more emotional and lashes out at the people who accuse him. Like I noted when discussing Jingle, this seems to be a fairly scum move. So the only case you have that is new or not retarded is that you perceive emotion in a text base game which is incredibly difficult to both convey and perceive emotion through. I don't know how to respond to your perceptions of emotion that isn't there. but next time you write a wall of text 'case' against me could you please include a case? If anyone sees something important could someone please convey it to me. Concisely if possible lol. You did exactly what I said you'd do in the first paragraph... Show nested quote +Make sure that scum can't take advantage of this. They must address the whole post, or the conclusion. Not just cherry pick some parts. (I'm especially expecting DP to try to dismantle the first point against him, and try to shift the whole portion against him to that)
Come on, man. I expected better than this! Anyway, DP, why don't you provide us with your own opinions? [/b]
So you post a bad case. Point out it is bad. and then say that if I am scum I will make a point of saying how bad it is?
I addressed every part of your case. there is no case. Was there anything I didn't address? I always provide my opinions. read my filter.
What does that post add to anything except attempt to leave the impression I missed something. I did not.
If anyone other than aRyuujin thinks I have missed something feel free to let me know and I will address it.
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On August 06 2012 15:44 aRyuujin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 15:40 DarthPunk wrote:On August 06 2012 14:26 aRyuujin wrote:
@Shady:
Why not kill the guaranteed scum now? unless you're of the opinion that me/Jingle or alan/jingle(which I think we basically ruled out) is more likely than DP/alan, then it's objectively better not to risk that 1% that we end up mislynching Jingle.
Also, in case the mods don't see my vote tangled up in the huge post I made up above, I voted DP:
##unvote and ##vote Darthpunk
And Shady, if the consensus is still that we need to lynch Jingle first, rest assured that I will vote Jingle over a mislynch. I just believe that it's in our best interests to hit DP first. Of course it is in your best interest to lynch me first. I am under suspicion and am accusing you. You said not that long ago that Jingle was the best to lynch first. The thing that has changed? I cast suspicion onto you. That's it. Can you be any more transparent? LOL I am 100% sure if GK had voted mordanis that you would be all over her like a bad salesman. Yet you sheeped my case on mord and are 100% innocent? LMAO Why don't you address my conclusion rather than getting all worked up?
I am not getting worked up. quite frankly I am bored with having to respond to the same things countless times.
I did not respond to your conclusion because it was this
After looking at DP, I'm like 100% sure that he's scum.
I responded to each of the points in your case. yet you have ignored them. and then say you expected better acting as if I had not.
If anyone else reads this please look at my answers to his case, and his complete disregard for them in his desperation to form a bandwagon on me.
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On August 06 2012 15:35 DarthPunk wrote:
@Jingle. I have a town read on you because you are experiencing exactly what I am experiencing. If the same people that are trying to mislynch you are also trying to mislynch me. I assume you must be town. If you think there is an ulterior motive for me believing you to be town and that that is enough reason to vote for me, so be it.
That being said. I will continue to post cases and defend myself but I am sheeping shadys vote no matter what this cycle. If shady votes for me I will vote for myself etc. The reason for this is that the situation is bad at the moment. a mess really. I will sheep the vote of the confirmed town. Whilst still contributing as much as possible.
If I had to vote for someone right now it would be aRyuujin he had less than a pages worth of filter but has LEAPT into action now more than one person is considering voting for him. I mean read his filter. the contrast is obvious.
So basically you don't want any responsibility for your vote? It's been said, time and time again, the strongest weapon of a town is their vote. Abandoning your vote is NEVER a pro town move. Now, let's see what he actually says in this post.
He has a town read on Jingle. Why? Because DP says DP is town, and anyone who says DP is town cannot ever accuse someone correctly. Seems legit. Now, let's see, why would DP actually say Jingle is town? Maybe... it's because DP ALREADY KNOWS that Jingle is town. Darthpunk is furthering his ploy to have Jingle's green flip make him look clean.
Shady, come on man. At this point, lynching Darthpunk needs to be priority #1.
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It appears that the Darthpunk lynch is gaining momentum. And now there's side-tangents that include alan too... I'm still against lynching Darthpunk today. Can someone kindly explain to me why he's 100% scum? Ange's arguement against him was summarized as:
On August 06 2012 07:10 Ange777 wrote:1. During the Zork lynch discussion DarthPunk repeatedly soft-defended Zork, pushed Mordanis as lynch candidate and proposed to lynch aRyuujin instead of Zork.
2. He switches votes very conveniently at around the same time when Zork fake claims medic. I believe that scum decided in their QT to concede to the Zork lynch.
1) Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall Darthpunk's "defense" of Zork amounting to he felt Zork was some kind of lurker. And if we were to lynch solely based off that reasoning we should lynch aRyuujin. I don't recall much further "defense" than that, and that seems like a reasonable arguement if he was looking at it solely from the lurker standpoint.
2) I find Darthpunk's claim that he hadn't seen Zork's post before his post FAR MORE BELIEVABLE than that in QT scum were like "let's have Darthpunk change vote and bus Zork TWO MINUTES AFTER he incriminates himself." I'd expect a move like this to be planned out hours ahead of time so that Darthpunk could change his vote way ahead of time and avoid suspicion...
Thanks aRyuujin for your most recent case post. It's a dramatic improvement from earlier . One thing on your case against Darthpunk I'd like to specifically address, though, is your implication that NK'ing Mordanis benefited Darthpunk. Any such discussion of why scum NK'ed a specific person I feel is too much WIFOM to really bring up. I could come up with other realistic reasons why they might have NK'ed Mordanis. The first that comes to mind is they wanted to get someone they were pretty sure wouldn't be medic saved...
If someone could summarize a specific case point that shows Darthpunk's guilt that I haven't discussed here please let me know. I wanted to give Darthpunk a chance to defend himself, as I feel his defense is just as important as what was said in the case against him to get a good read of the situation. But after his defense, I don't feel the evidence is there to say he's a sure scum, especially compared to Jingle. Jingle has been spending his posting time calling us tunneling sheep, which is hardly a compelling arguement -_-
I understand the need for town to stay united, and will coincide my vote with Shady's to secure the lynch for Darth IF IT COMES TO THAT, but I honestly hope it doesn't. I feel we're getting ahead of ourselves. Almost everyone is in agreement that Jingle is scum, so why are we now voting Darth? If there's some compelling arguement for lynching him I've overlooked, please enlighten me.
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On August 06 2012 15:55 aRyuujin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 15:35 DarthPunk wrote:
@Jingle. I have a town read on you because you are experiencing exactly what I am experiencing. If the same people that are trying to mislynch you are also trying to mislynch me. I assume you must be town. If you think there is an ulterior motive for me believing you to be town and that that is enough reason to vote for me, so be it.
That being said. I will continue to post cases and defend myself but I am sheeping shadys vote no matter what this cycle. If shady votes for me I will vote for myself etc. The reason for this is that the situation is bad at the moment. a mess really. I will sheep the vote of the confirmed town. Whilst still contributing as much as possible.
If I had to vote for someone right now it would be aRyuujin he had less than a pages worth of filter but has LEAPT into action now more than one person is considering voting for him. I mean read his filter. the contrast is obvious.
So basically you don't want any responsibility for your vote? It's been said, time and time again, the strongest weapon of a town is their vote. Abandoning your vote is NEVER a pro town move. Now, let's see what he actually says in this post. He has a town read on Jingle. Why? Because DP says DP is town, and anyone who says DP is town cannot ever accuse someone correctly. Seems legit. Now, let's see, why would DP actually say Jingle is town? Maybe... it's because DP ALREADY KNOWS that Jingle is town. Darthpunk is furthering his ploy to have Jingle's green flip make him look clean. Shady, come on man. At this point, lynching Darthpunk needs to be priority #1.
I said I would post cases and defend myself. and contribute to the thread. And then I stated who I would vote for. In that very post. Others have stated they would follow shady. Including yourself. It is for the towns benefit. Yet it is only a problem when i do it.
First I am scum for defending scum jingle. Now I am scum for thinking he is town. I assume I would be scum if I sheeped the case on jingle. I have well reasoned transparent motivations behind my actions. So do you. A healthy case of confirmation bias and a desperation to lynch the only suspicious player of those who have accused you.
Honestly I don't think I could do anything right now without there being something scummy behind it.
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EBWOP: Jingle has been spending his posting time calling us tunneling sheep, which is hardly a compelling defense -_-
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On August 06 2012 16:00 goodkarma wrote:
If someone could summarize a specific case point that shows Darthpunk's guilt that I haven't discussed here please let me know. I wanted to give Darthpunk a chance to defend himself, as I feel his defense is just as important as what was said in the case against him to get a good read of the situation. But after his defense, I don't feel the evidence is there to say he's a sure scum, especially compared to Jingle. Jingle has been spending his posting time calling us tunneling sheep, which is hardly a compelling arguement -_-
I understand the need for town to stay united, and will coincide my vote with Shady's to secure the lynch for Darth IF IT COMES TO THAT, but I honestly hope it doesn't. I feel we're getting ahead of ourselves. Almost everyone is in agreement that Jingle is scum, so why are we now voting Darth? If there's some compelling arguement for lynching him I've overlooked, please enlighten me.
The case against me comes from 2 people, both of whom I have cast suspicion on and jingle for having a town read on him.
The main argument is my post timing which I believe I have explained. To be honest what little case there was has been answered, but aRyuujin seems to be tunnelling me along with a healthy case of confirmation bias.
aRyuujin actually wanted to vote jingle first. That all changed of course as soon as I posted that he was my top scum read.
The whole thing is pretty transparent to me to be honest.
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Good morning. Just finished catching up.
Once again I would like to bring something to your attention. When we were all set on lynching Jingle, everyone was agreeing (besides DarthPunk). It was such an easy vote. Anything wrong with easy votes? Well, day 1 and day 2 votes were easy. What did we get? Town. Oh yeah, day 3 was really difficult. What did we get? Scum!
Although some may brush this off as WIFOM (because scum clearly could bus their own member etc), this is one more reason for me to prefer a DarthPunk lynch than a Jingle lynch.
aRyuujin made an awesome case and I agree with him that there might be a tiny chance that Jingle is not scum but DarthPunk IS SCUM and therefore has to be lynched today!
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On August 06 2012 15:35 DarthPunk wrote:
@Jingle. I have a town read on you because you are experiencing exactly what I am experiencing. If the same people that are trying to mislynch you are also trying to mislynch me. I assume you must be town. If you think there is an ulterior motive for me believing you to be town and that that is enough reason to vote for me, so be it.
That being said. I will continue to post cases and defend myself but I am sheeping shadys vote no matter what this cycle. If shady votes for me I will vote for myself etc. The reason for this is that the situation is bad at the moment. a mess really. I will sheep the vote of the confirmed town. Whilst still contributing as much as possible.
If I had to vote for someone right now it would be aRyuujin he had less than a pages worth of filter but has LEAPT into action now more than one person is considering voting for him. I mean read his filter. the contrast is obvious.
You want to just simply sheep Shady? Why give up your own reads and your right to decide whom to vote? This post just screams for more town cred.
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On August 06 2012 16:24 Ange777 wrote:
Good morning. Just finished catching up.
Once again I would like to bring something to your attention. When we were all set on lynching Jingle, everyone was agreeing (besides DarthPunk). It was such an easy vote. Anything wrong with easy votes? Well, day 1 and day 2 votes were easy. What did we get? Town. Oh yeah, day 3 was really difficult. What did we get? Scum!
Although some may brush this off as WIFOM (because scum clearly could bus their own member etc), this is one more reason for me to prefer a DarthPunk lynch than a Jingle lynch.
aRyuujin made an awesome case and I agree with him that there might be a tiny chance that Jingle is not scum but DarthPunk IS SCUM and therefore has to be lynched today!
So you just Ignore my defense as if nothing happened? say that aRyuujin made an awesome case (which is patently false) and then proceed to tell us all I must be lynched? without adding anything to your case. without acknowledging my defense.
Either you became massively overconfident with the zork lynch or you are scum.
Your case against me is weak as shit. I have more than defended my self. but you just IGNORE EVERYTHING add some WIFOM for good measure and carry on with the bandwagon?
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Keep cool, I am still typing
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EBWOP: you also flat out ignore goodkarmas request. have some respect.
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Okay so I went through DarthPunk's filter and rediscovered our little disagreement from earlier in the game. Originally I dismissed it as him misunderstanding the intent of my post.
In its original form:
+ Show Spoiler [The original] +On July 30 2012 18:57 Obvious.660 wrote:Of the remaining people, outside of myself and Promethelax, we have alan133 and DarthPunk who did not vote for Golbat. Since I have already gone back and forth with Promethelax and found his reasons for voting for Shady Sands similar to but above and beyond my own, there are two players remaining to look at.
First I'll take a look at alan133's posts: Some behavior analysis: consistent in his methods for determining his best scum target. His vote on Shady Sands was not willy-nilly, and he considered the cases against Golbat and Mordanis as well before casting his vote. Solid play on this end, in my opinion, at least throughout D1. Show nested quote +On July 29 2012 03:55 alan133 wrote:
However, loosely quoting someone: "The goal of lynching is to get scum", I am still in favor of Shady lynch instead of Golbat for I believe the former has a much higher chance to flip scum, in other words, I am keeping my vote, unless it is really necessary for me to switch to make a lynch happen, but I will probably be sleeping as the vote is tally. I urge all who has not voted (or already voted but not into the potential lynch target) to reconsider their votes aiming for a lynch. At this point there were 5 votes for Golbat. Two possibilities for this rather well timed post: Town alan133 wants to make sure we don't get into a no-lynch scenario, as that gives us little to work with for actual information that can be 100% confirmed (a flip)or Scum alan133 is setting himself up to ensure a mislynch won't end up looking bad on him if he has to put his vote in as the one of the last people on the Golbat vote list.Of these two scenarios, I'm more easily convinced that alan133 is acting in the best interests of the town. I did want to mention this though if any suspicions arise regarding his votes or actions in the future. I have a question for alan133:How did you make sense of goodkarma's post regarding Keirathi? I'm not really able to pinpoint exactly where that case even is, so you'll need to point it out for me, please.
DarthPunk's filter: So the first thing I notice after processing the first half of my post here is that DarthPunk and alan133 both ended up posting around the time where Golbat was at 5 votes. DarthPunk also explained that he would be willing to change his vote from Mordanis to Golbat to avoid a mislynch with his post 40 minutes later. Sounds appropriate given the situation, from a town perspective. But again, we're at the two scenarios as above where we're either seeing avoiding looking bad for the mislynch, or staying around to ensure there is a lynch. It seems his main reason for staying on Mordanis is motivated by finding Mordanis' play as confusing to the town as well as not being convinced about his own case(s).
So are they connected somehow? Outside of their willingness to switch votes, here's all I can see: - No direct mention of alan133 in DarthPunk's filter.
- alan133 doesn't agree with DarthPunk's assessment of Mordanis in this post:
+ Show Spoiler +On July 27 2012 12:23 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 11:54 Shady Sands wrote:On July 27 2012 10:17 DarthPunk wrote:So I just read through the thread and the first post that really sprang out at me was this. + Show Spoiler +On July 27 2012 07:43 Mordanis wrote:Rather than sitting in a circle and deciding whom to lynch based on who sing "Kum ba yah, My Lord" the most off key (what kind of villainous scum would do such a thing?), I think its time to begin the scumhunt. Anyways, I apologize in advance if this seems somewhat rushed. I want to get the hunt going as early as possible, and I feel we've wasted the first hour and a half. So without further ado, here comes (hopefully) the first case of the game: Mordanis's's case on KeirathiK (for some reason your name is really hard for me to type) began this game by virtually claiming Town RB. + Show Spoiler +On July 27 2012 05:41 Keirathi wrote:
First things first:
If we have a town roleblocker, I think its best not to use your role early. You generally have as much chance of hurting a teamate as you do a scum. I'm not saying to NEVER use it, but think carefully and only use it if you are reasonably sure that you are blocking a scum.
Some policy discussion:
Lynch All Liars - I'm of the opinion that there are very, very few cases where lying as a townie is beneficial to town. With that said, there ARE cases where it is a realistic option, so I think blanket policy lynching is a fairly bad thing. Case-by-case basis.
Lynch All Lurkers - As much as lurking hurts town, I feel like at least in newbie games, lurking is almost guaranteed. I encourage everyone to try as hard as they can to avoid lurking sot hat we won't have to discuss this later. Lurking as a townie hurts town. Please don't do it. Again, case-by-case basis.
Are all roleblocks notified, or only people with power roles?
I've seen games where it works both ways, so best to clarify early.
. Now this may have been a case of extreme newbiness, which would be understandable, but Mr. K has played in at least 2 other games, so I believe he knew how this post would be interpreted. This brings up 3 possibilities: 1: Mr. K is VT, and he is trying to "take one for the team". He knows that the scum will see this post and read him blue, and he'll die tonight instead of a real blue. If this were to happen, he'd have helped town. If he gets lynched today, it'll be bad for town, but it will be deal-with-able. 2: Mr. K is actually townie RB. Perhaps he is trying to make his "claim" so obvious the scum will think option 1 is happening. Trying to hide out in the open. If he is killed during the night, we're in pretty bad shape. But if this option is the case and he's lynched today, we're in even worse shape, because he won't have used his power even once. That said, he implied that he wouldn't want to use it N1 anyway, so the options are virtually the same. 3: Mr. K is scum, and is trying to use this as means to get himself out of trouble. If he ever gets some heat brought to him, he just says "Dude, I basically claimed town RB, I don't think its a good idea to lynch me" The claim also puts pressure on any real blues to claim, and when everyone claims, a claim isn't worth anything. Basically, this post seems mildly non-protown, and it gives him a way to defend himself. Destabilizing town and giving yourself an extra cycle seems very scummy to me. If we lynch him today, we're off to a great start. And if this option is the case, scum aren't killing him tonight. Of these three, option 2 seems by far the least probable. So that being said, I think that right now Keirathi is the best candidate for lynching. Still, its pretty early so I don't think it would be wise in any way to commit right now. Last thing: I have to go to work now, and I'll be back in probably 5 hours (rakin in the cash makin pizza), just FYI. So after some policy discussion Mordanis makes his case against Keirathi. After some WIFOM we get to this - If he is killed during the night, we're in pretty bad shape. But if this option is the case and he's lynched today, we're in even worse shape, because he won't have used his power even once. So Keirathi is blue and we are in bad shape if he is NK/Lynched. but then we get to this: If we lynch him today, we're off to a great start. And this: So that being said, I think that right now Keirathi is the best candidate for lynching. Twice stating that Keirath is is our best lynch at the moment which is a direct contradiction to his other premise. he ends with this: I don't think it would be wise in any way to commit right now So after backflipping from his first premise (that it would be terribad for Keirathi to be NK and an even worse for us to mislynch him), and TWICE stating that Keirathi is our best Lynch. Mordanis decides that it isn't wise to commit right now after all. This post was WIFOM, contradiction and confusion. At best it is saying something while saying nothing. At worst it is a deliberate attempt of scum to mislynch their blue read day 1. Destabilizing town and giving yourself an extra cycle seems very scummy to me. Yeah it does doesn't it. FoS Mordanis I'm not sure we can use internal contradictions between Mordanis' three different points as evidence, given that they are illustrating three different "what-ifs". That being said, though, his logic as to why point #2 is the least likely and point #3 is the most likely doesn't hold water (or rather, doesn't exist), and each of his points are pretty farfetched. I'd say he's our best option for a day 1 lynch at this point, but to be extra sure, we should wait until Ange777 has had a chance to post as well, and Mordanis gets back from making pizzas and has had a chance to defend himself. Even if he flips green (which is likely, let's not get our hopes up here), his lynch will tell us a lot about who we should go after next, since people seem to have had strong reactions to both his proposal to go after Keir, his own lynching, and his arguments against policy lynching. -He posts 3 different scenario's on Keir which contradicted one another (he states these as a 'case', whatever). 2 of the 3 have Keir as a blue and the third as scum. Yet he still sees Keir as the best lynch. The case is completely confused and without a logical narrative, based on a 'virtual claim' by Keirathi that I honestly don't think is there. There is no reason whatsoever that I can think of to make a case with internal contradictions. Am I missing something here? -It is statistically likely that he will flip green. but you can say that about anyone. If you think he is town or not suspicious don't vote for him. Read filters, make a case etc.
For this reason:
+ Show Spoiler +On July 27 2012 12:46 alan133 wrote:I refreshed to forum I see Mordanis is currently under fire for his post. After reading Darth's case I don't think he is a good day 1 lynch for the following reason. - The only fault I see in his post is that Mordanis put words into Keirathi's mouth, with his sketchy logic based on his assumption that Kei role claimed.
- Those "contradictory" scenarios are not contradictory because it is not related to each other.
- Mordanis is the first person to bring out a case. Ignoring WIFOM, this is a town favored trait.
I don't see any obvious connections here. The only things they had in common so far really was they didn't vote for Golbat, and both were willing to change votes. This tells me nothing of either of them individually but leads me to believe that they are not necessarily of the same alignment.
The part that Darth took issue with was that I said he would switch to Golbat to secure the lynch. So why would I say something like that?
Reality: I was merely stating that at the time of his post, the most likely candidate for lynch based on the attitude of the town was Golbat who was in first place with 5 votes. In second place was Shady Sands with 3 votes, not exactly a contender for a guaranteed lynch. Easier to use the word Golbat because it actually mirrors reality.
He makes it sound like I accused him of a blatant scum slip. Initially I didn't see why Darth would want to correct me, but I finally get it.
Darth's Overreaction: Obvious claims I stated I would vote to lynch Golbat. Better correct him so they don't think I said something very clearly scummy when nobody was looking.
If Darth had never brought this up and tried to correct me, it would have flown under my radar. I had already dismissed my post as crap and forgotten about it. Thinking about it now, it seems more likely that Darth was too forward thinking in his response to it. Forward thinking. That seems to have come up in a conversation with him, too:+ Show Spoiler [Getting Ahead] +On August 05 2012 19:24 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 18:45 Ange777 wrote:
A wise man once said: When you are ahead, get more ahead. Why bus their own team member when scum could have easily get a mislynch on another townie: Mordanis? Votes were stuck evenly for quite a long time.
Anyway, I want to hear your scum reads. I have a feeling you are accusing me of bussing Zork? What? you had suspicions that that is where I was going before I even accused you? Is this because it is the one thing you are afraid of people thinking? On August 05 2012 19:29 DarthPunk wrote:
EPWOP: They were far ahead. Zork was inactive and not contributing, had suspicions raised against him several times. It would be a smart play to trade the most obvious member of their scum team for lots of town credit and 2 further mislynches (which you have prepared beforehand.) That is getting further ahead. That is winning the game.
I got a laugh from this. I just spent a few min trying to find out how it happened, innocent error that looks really fishy if you don't see where it came from:
On August 03 2012 20:35 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 20:01 DarthPunk wrote:
I think your case against Mordanis is good. But right now, I am not willing to vote for someone, whom I think has a decent chance of flipping scum when I am convinced that Zork will flip scum!
This is the problem I have as well. The inner quote is actually from Ange. Solved the mystery. Imagine if this was Darth actually saying he's concerned Zork will flip scum.
Edit before having to double post: It appears we lit a fire under this one...
On August 06 2012 15:55 aRyuujin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 15:35 DarthPunk wrote:
@Jingle. I have a town read on you because you are experiencing exactly what I am experiencing. If the same people that are trying to mislynch you are also trying to mislynch me. I assume you must be town. If you think there is an ulterior motive for me believing you to be town and that that is enough reason to vote for me, so be it.
That being said. I will continue to post cases and defend myself but I am sheeping shadys vote no matter what this cycle. If shady votes for me I will vote for myself etc. The reason for this is that the situation is bad at the moment. a mess really. I will sheep the vote of the confirmed town. Whilst still contributing as much as possible.
If I had to vote for someone right now it would be aRyuujin he had less than a pages worth of filter but has LEAPT into action now more than one person is considering voting for him. I mean read his filter. the contrast is obvious.
So basically you don't want any responsibility for your vote? It's been said, time and time again, the strongest weapon of a town is their vote. Abandoning your vote is NEVER a pro town move. Now, let's see what he actually says in this post. He has a town read on Jingle. Why? Because DP says DP is town, and anyone who says DP is town cannot ever accuse someone correctly. Seems legit. Now, let's see, why would DP actually say Jingle is town? Maybe... it's because DP ALREADY KNOWS that Jingle is town. Darthpunk is furthering his ploy to have Jingle's green flip make him look clean. Shady, come on man. At this point, lynching Darthpunk needs to be priority #1.
Honestly I'm too tired to go further with this. I see a few votes already heading in this direction.
Darth has a town read on Jingle.
On August 06 2012 16:07 goodkarma wrote:
EBWOP: Jingle has been spending his posting time calling us tunneling sheep, which is hardly a compelling defense -_-
I don't really see a reason to disagree with GK's summary. I'm trying to figure out how he can know Jingle is town without the use of WIFOM.
##VOTE DarthPunk
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On August 06 2012 16:00 goodkarma wrote:It appears that the Darthpunk lynch is gaining momentum. And now there's side-tangents that include alan too... I'm still against lynching Darthpunk today. Can someone kindly explain to me why he's 100% scum? Ange's arguement against him was summarized as: Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 07:10 Ange777 wrote:1. During the Zork lynch discussion DarthPunk repeatedly soft-defended Zork, pushed Mordanis as lynch candidate and proposed to lynch aRyuujin instead of Zork.
2. He switches votes very conveniently at around the same time when Zork fake claims medic. I believe that scum decided in their QT to concede to the Zork lynch.
1) Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall Darthpunk's "defense" of Zork amounting to he felt Zork was some kind of lurker. And if we were to lynch solely based off that reasoning we should lynch aRyuujin. I don't recall much further "defense" than that, and that seems like a reasonable arguement if he was looking at it solely from the lurker standpoint. 2) I find Darthpunk's claim that he hadn't seen Zork's post before his post FAR MORE BELIEVABLE than that in QT scum were like "let's have Darthpunk change vote and bus Zork TWO MINUTES AFTER he incriminates himself." I'd expect a move like this to be planned out hours ahead of time so that Darthpunk could change his vote way ahead of time and avoid suspicion... Thanks aRyuujin for your most recent case post. It's a dramatic improvement from earlier . One thing on your case against Darthpunk I'd like to specifically address, though, is your implication that NK'ing Mordanis benefited Darthpunk. Any such discussion of why scum NK'ed a specific person I feel is too much WIFOM to really bring up. I could come up with other realistic reasons why they might have NK'ed Mordanis. The first that comes to mind is they wanted to get someone they were pretty sure wouldn't be medic saved... If someone could summarize a specific case point that shows Darthpunk's guilt that I haven't discussed here please let me know. I wanted to give Darthpunk a chance to defend himself, as I feel his defense is just as important as what was said in the case against him to get a good read of the situation. But after his defense, I don't feel the evidence is there to say he's a sure scum, especially compared to Jingle. Jingle has been spending his posting time calling us tunneling sheep, which is hardly a compelling arguement -_- I understand the need for town to stay united, and will coincide my vote with Shady's to secure the lynch for Darth IF IT COMES TO THAT, but I honestly hope it doesn't. I feel we're getting ahead of ourselves. Almost everyone is in agreement that Jingle is scum, so why are we now voting Darth? If there's some compelling arguement for lynching him I've overlooked, please enlighten me.
@goodkarma:
What you quoted is not my entire case. It is the behaviour which made him scummy but the reason why I want to vote him is the scum motivation behind it.
On August 06 2012 07:10 Ange777 wrote:
I see a clear scum motivation for his behaviour:
1. Save Zork and mislynch Mordanis (or aRyuujin at least) instead
2. When there is no way to save Zork, switch the vote before Zork's claim to get a bit of town cred
3. Discredit me as I am the most active power behind his lynch and mislynch me
Even if you give DarthPunk the benefit of doubt that he really did believe Zork was a lurker I really don't see why he would put Zork and aRyuujin in one category. To me, aRyuujin seems like a bored town who can't bother himself to post more active. His most recent activity fits that perfectly. Which is why I will not vote for aRyuujin.
Scum doesn't always show themselves with some damning piece of evidence. (And even if they do as in Zork's slip not everyone accepts it ... ) You have to instead think about why someone would do this or that and whether it is scum motivated or if there is a town motivation for it. Therefore I'd like you to weigh once more whether you really think that there might be a town motivation for DarthPunk's behaviour or whether a scum DarthPunk would make so much more sense.
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EBWOP:
Why is aRyuujin now your strongest scum read DarthPunk? I thought that's me? What changed? You could not get the bandwagon on me to start and now you're trying again with the one player who should be the easiest to get a lynch on because of his previous lack of activity?
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Hey GK! Glad to see you're here. The thing about Darkpunk is that rather than it being one big thing confirming that he's scum (like how Zorkmid dropped that bomb), DP's red status' confirmation is made up of many small tells.
Over time, DP has had lots of these small tells, that if we add together, pretty much confirm that he's a scum.
One is his defense of Zork. Contrary to popular belief, rather than just stating that Zork is a lurker, DP tried to find town motives to explain away Zork's slips. At some points, (I think where it simply became too difficult because of all the mistakes Zork was making), DP was just like fuck it, he's a bad townie, but..... let's lynch Mordanis! And when people realized how obviously scummy Zork was, THAT was the point when DP was like nope Zork = lurker. Then he made his supposed "instigating attack" that apparently led to me OMGUSing him. Control F for Zork here, it's quite telling.
The other thing I really want to point out is that rather than advancing town's position, after being accused, DP has pretty much curled into a ball. He didn't even properly address my analysis (no I don't think it's a case), instead doing exactly what I said he would do: Ignoring my conclusions and instead trying to discredit it by taking small parts and acting absurdly.
And it seems that I was ninja'd by Ange, but the thing we need to look for is motives. Not necessarily the actions themselves, but the motives. Why does DP behave the way he does is the question that we need to ask ourselves.
On August 06 2012 16:00 goodkarma wrote:It appears that the Darthpunk lynch is gaining momentum. And now there's side-tangents that include alan too... I'm still against lynching Darthpunk today. Can someone kindly explain to me why he's 100% scum? Ange's arguement against him was summarized as: Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 07:10 Ange777 wrote:1. During the Zork lynch discussion DarthPunk repeatedly soft-defended Zork, pushed Mordanis as lynch candidate and proposed to lynch aRyuujin instead of Zork.
2. He switches votes very conveniently at around the same time when Zork fake claims medic. I believe that scum decided in their QT to concede to the Zork lynch.
1) Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall Darthpunk's "defense" of Zork amounting to he felt Zork was some kind of lurker. And if we were to lynch solely based off that reasoning we should lynch aRyuujin. I don't recall much further "defense" than that, and that seems like a reasonable arguement if he was looking at it solely from the lurker standpoint. 2) I find Darthpunk's claim that he hadn't seen Zork's post before his post FAR MORE BELIEVABLE than that in QT scum were like "let's have Darthpunk change vote and bus Zork TWO MINUTES AFTER he incriminates himself." I'd expect a move like this to be planned out hours ahead of time so that Darthpunk could change his vote way ahead of time and avoid suspicion... Thanks aRyuujin for your most recent case post. It's a dramatic improvement from earlier . One thing on your case against Darthpunk I'd like to specifically address, though, is your implication that NK'ing Mordanis benefited Darthpunk. Any such discussion of why scum NK'ed a specific person I feel is too much WIFOM to really bring up. I could come up with other realistic reasons why they might have NK'ed Mordanis. The first that comes to mind is they wanted to get someone they were pretty sure wouldn't be medic saved... If someone could summarize a specific case point that shows Darthpunk's guilt that I haven't discussed here please let me know. I wanted to give Darthpunk a chance to defend himself, as I feel his defense is just as important as what was said in the case against him to get a good read of the situation. But after his defense, I don't feel the evidence is there to say he's a sure scum, especially compared to Jingle. Jingle has been spending his posting time calling us tunneling sheep, which is hardly a compelling arguement -_- I understand the need for town to stay united, and will coincide my vote with Shady's to secure the lynch for Darth IF IT COMES TO THAT, but I honestly hope it doesn't. I feel we're getting ahead of ourselves. Almost everyone is in agreement that Jingle is scum, so why are we now voting Darth? If there's some compelling arguement for lynching him I've overlooked, please enlighten me.
and @ Darthpunk
If you want us to take you for a townie, you're going to have to act like a townie. All you've really posted is that you feel for Jingle for getting accused and that you're mad at me/i'm an idiot/i'm scum/there's something very funny for accusing you.
What do you think about Alan? Who's the other scum besides myself? Why is it that when I address you, you ignore what I'm saying, and then say that I'm the one ignoring what you're saying? What's the REAL reason why you think Jingle is town? And why are you going to brush this post off with plenty of LOL, ROFL. and LMAO?
Something else I dug up:
+ Show Spoiler +On August 03 2012 17:29 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 17:25 goodkarma wrote:
@Shady, wherever you are: I hope you have good reason to be away from these forums...
We need 6/7 town to get lynch majority... With our current division, I just don't see that happening... I still believe that banding together around Shady was our best chance, and I hope he returns to provide his impressions with the most recently presented cases.
I feel very uneasy about voting Mord. On top of the reasons I've already presented, aRyuujin, my top scum suspect, has also gotten onto that bandwaggon.
If Shady comes back and decides Mord. is still his best choice, then fine. Until then:
b]##unvote
##Vote: Zorkmid
Zorkmid is an obvious scum. I sincerely hope that Darthpunk will change his vote. Even then, I can't help but feel that town is in trouble here. -_-
I will be checking this forum again before the deadline, and will only consider changing my vote to one of the following to achieve a majority lynch: aRyuujin, JinglHells, or Shady's choice (if he ever provides an update post). Good luck all... Can I just clarify before you leave why you are voting for Zork if Aryuujin is your top scum read. also. SEE waiting around for shady sands to see who to vote for is ridiculous. I am SO GLAD you are going back on that.
Here, we have a discussion where DP is . Word for word, DP says that his(DP's) current behavior is "ridiculous"
This is somewhat offtopic, so I'll keep it in a spoiler, but it's directed at DP
+ Show Spoiler +On August 06 2012 16:40 DarthPunk wrote:
EBWOP: you also flat out ignore goodkarmas request. have some respect. Hey man, cool down. You're the only person who's been accused of breaking this: However, this does not mean that you should try to win by being a jerk to the other players so they all want to quit playing. , (In my eyes) you've behaved quite rudely after being accused. Hopefully (and chances are), I'm just getting annoyed because of something stupid, and everyone disagrees with me, but still. Relax and chill
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EPT
