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I'm entirely amused that playing LoL for the day turns me into a ragequit, in a game where there's literally no point in me trying to defend myself, because unless a scum attacking me claims scum, the tunnel won't get off me.
On August 06 2012 08:55 DarthPunk wrote:
Of course I am ignoring jingle. 1.) I have a town read on him, and 2.) he is not in the thread to defend himself so accusing him would not reap any new information. It is also odd that you were lurking the thread, not contributing anything and then almost immediately after myself and obvious link you with being scum you come out with that rather ironic post.
By the way, DarthPunk... much as I appreciate the vote of confidence, claiming you have a townread on me at this point makes me wonder if you're setting people up to look bad after I flip.
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On August 06 2012 10:28 JingleHell wrote:I'm entirely amused that playing LoL for the day turns me into a ragequit, in a game where there's literally no point in me trying to defend myself, because unless a scum attacking me claims scum, the tunnel won't get off me. Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 08:55 DarthPunk wrote:
Of course I am ignoring jingle. 1.) I have a town read on him, and 2.) he is not in the thread to defend himself so accusing him would not reap any new information. It is also odd that you were lurking the thread, not contributing anything and then almost immediately after myself and obvious link you with being scum you come out with that rather ironic post. By the way, DarthPunk... much as I appreciate the vote of confidence, claiming you have a townread on me at this point makes me wonder if you're setting people up to look bad after I flip.
What happened to your long case on Alan? You don't think he's guilty anymore?
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Are they mutually exclusive? Is there a problem with seeing something as being a scumslip? Even if you people are too busy wallowing in your WIFOM and confirmation bias about me to see it, DarthPunk seems to be preparing town to sheep him after I flip green.
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On August 06 2012 11:25 JingleHell wrote:
Are they mutually exclusive? Is there a problem with seeing something as being a scumslip? Even if you people are too busy wallowing in your WIFOM and confirmation bias about me to see it, DarthPunk seems to be preparing town to sheep him after I flip green.
But you just pretty much tossed your entire case on Alan133 out the window and posted a one-liner statement on Darthpunk. That might make sense for an ##unvote, but you went ahead and voted Darthpunk anyhow. That's really wierd. If you're so hell-bent on proving that you're a contributing townie, why don't you build a longer case on Darthpunk before telling town to "flail around and die" once you get lynched?
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As promised, here is my most recent impressions on aRyuujin.
@aRyuujin:
So, recent developments for aRyuujin include what I consider to be his first "real" analysis post. Bolded are the parts of it that stood out to me, and what I'd like to discuss. This post is where I'll start:
+ Show Spoiler +On August 05 2012 17:19 aRyuujin wrote:@Shady Sands: Basically, you're saying that my main scum tell is that I'm lurky. While I definitely AM lurky, it's not because I'm scum, it's because I barely have stuff to say  . Even when I do contribute, people point out that I'm just agreeing with others. Hell, I even missed the day 2 lynch (though that was because I was incredibly busy). If I was scum, I'd at least have jumped on a bandwagon or something beforehand, rather than thinking I'd be able to make up my mind later (and consequently missing the vote). On Jingle:
Recently, he's made a lot of emotional/fluff posts. At least in IRL mafia, when someone does that, it's generally because they can no longer find strong defenses against the arguments made against them. However, I don't see why Jingle would be so obvious in his 'fuck it they got me' attitude, especially considering how many believe he is experienced and skilled. On Darthpunk: like others have noted, that 'breadcrumb' by zork could easily have been just a way to give DP an excuse to seem anti zork. Note how previously, he was reluctant on voting zork, and finally changed when he saw there was no point in not doing so. This is a typical scum move, just trying to blend in with the other townies and going with the bandwagon. In fact, at one point he even calls zork a bad player (presumably for pulling the crappy breadcrumb stunt). This falls in sync with DP's other actions regarding the mordanis vs zork swap. Because of his recent somewhat random defense of Jingle, I'm led to believe that if Jingle is scum, then so is DP Also remember that one of the remaining mafia is godfather, meaning he will not turn up red. This means that a cop check will be substantially less effective, and the 2 mafia can cover/defend each other more easily. On Ange: I actually didn't have much of an opinion on he/she, but what Shady said makes sense to me. It's highly unlikely that scum would bus at that point, meaning that ange is in the clear. on GK: I initially had a somewhat scummy read on him. However, I think his recent posts seem really town oriented, and I have a feeling I was heavily influenced by his game long tunneling of me. Because he's been going after Jingle, I find it highly unlikely that he's mafia if Jingle is. At this point, I was debating between Jingle and Darthpunk. However, I'm voting for Jingle because of 3 main things
1)I'm fairly certain Jingle is scum
2)If Jingle is mafia, then it puts the nail in the coffin imo that Darthpunk is scum. It also somewhat confirms GK's town status
3)It's our best chance of getting a lynch at this point, seeing as Shady Sands is going for it, and is our most confirmed townie.
aRyuujin's excuse for never posting:
"it's because I barely have stuff to say"
I find this very hard to believe. Why would you even bother playing this game if you went in with the intention of contributing nothing? What satisfaction could you possibly get, even if you won, if you weren't in any way responsible for the outcome of the game?
While pretty much everything you've said to date has been rehashings of others' views, several things stuck out to me about this post:
When discussing Jingle's most recent actions:
"Recently, he's made a lot of emotional/fluff posts. At least in IRL mafia, when someone does that, it's generally because they can no longer find strong defenses against the arguments made against them. However, I don't see why Jingle would be so obvious in his 'fuck it they got me' attitude, especially considering how many believe he is experienced and skilled."
This is really the first point that seems to actually come from you. If you want any chance at establishing your innocence you will need to start making many more posts with points like this, where you create arguements of your own that portray your perspective of who is scum.
"It's highly unlikely that scum would bus at that point, meaning that ange is in the clear."
So this point from Shady makes sense to you... Why exactly does it make sense to you? This has been one of the biggest issues I've had with you all game. You seem to go, "Yeah, what he said." There's nothing wrong with this, as long as you also add some content of your own to demonstrate to us exactly why it is you agree with a certain view.
Regarding me:
"I initially had a somewhat scummy read on him. However, I think his recent posts seem really town oriented, and I have a feeling I was heavily influenced by his game long tunneling of me. Because he's been going after Jingle, I find it highly unlikely that he's mafia if Jingle is."
This is yet another view of your own. Why is this the first time we are hearing about this? If you had a scummy read on me, you should have shared it with everyone. The last thing I remember you saying of your read on me was something like:
On July 28 2012 09:24 aRyuujin wrote:
-snip-
You still feel like town
Then there's this closing point from you:
"2)If Jingle is mafia, then it puts the nail in the coffin imo that Darthpunk is scum."
You'd better explain this better, because in no way do I see this to be necessarily true.
I've already brought to attention your rehashings of others' arguements in your "cases," and why I believe your "lurking" to be deliberate. This is all clearly spelled out in my case against you.
But also, there's this:
On July 28 2012 01:48 aRyuujin wrote:
-snip-
Suspecting me-Smart
I did not yet provide posts
Either i'm scum or
A really bad Town.
This shows to me that you have some idea what it takes to be a good town. You clearly know that lurking hurts town. So why, exactly, is it that now, of all times you feel compelled to actually try to contribute? My suspicion is that it has something to do with people mentioning you as a suspect again. You had a brief flurry of activity while defending yourself when Golbat and myself had voted for you on Day 1. You explained it as a fear of "a bandwagon forming around you."
The bottom line is I actually like your + Show Spoiler +post (or at least the parts of it that you provided your own analysis). I am deeply suspicious, though, of the timing of your new activity, as well as why it took until day 4 before you felt inspired to contribute anything of value.
And regarding this quote:
On August 06 2012 06:33 aRyuujin wrote:
Expect Goodkarma to paint me as 100% scum #3, he's been tunneling me literally all game long
No, aRyuujin. I'm not going to say you're 100% scum. I wouldn't even say that of JingleHell, who I'm currently pretty sure is scum. What I will say, though, is that to date you've done nothing to establish your innocence, and that's every townie's responsibility (if a townie you truly are). In fact everything you've written to date has read scummy to me. If you've seen my more recent case writeup on you it should be apparent why.
If you plan to have a chance at showing your innocence, you will be doubling your posting activity right now and establishing some cases that demonstrate your views on who is scum. If you're in agreement with someone, you will clearly explain why what they say makes sense. Basically, you will start to do what you should have been doing since day one.
Unfortunately, no amount of activity now is going to make up for your posting habits to date. But you can still work on showing you can actually contribute. This will go a long ways in showing you're pro-town.
But as of right now, I'm planning my vote for Day 5 to still be on you. Instead of being "annoyed" with me, I encourage you to do something about it.
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[green]Can we get a votecount?]/green]
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On August 06 2012 12:10 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 11:25 JingleHell wrote:
Are they mutually exclusive? Is there a problem with seeing something as being a scumslip? Even if you people are too busy wallowing in your WIFOM and confirmation bias about me to see it, DarthPunk seems to be preparing town to sheep him after I flip green. But you just pretty much tossed your entire case on Alan133 out the window and posted a one-liner statement on Darthpunk. That might make sense for an ##unvote, but you went ahead and voted Darthpunk anyhow. That's really wierd. If you're so hell-bent on proving that you're a contributing townie, why don't you build a longer case on Darthpunk before telling town to "flail around and die" once you get lynched?
I'm not hellbent on proving anything. I'm pointing to something scummy as hell. If you don't think it's suspicious now, you might later, if I get lynched, since I'll flip green.
I actually already gave up on proving my innocence, if you were too thick to figure that out. Something to do with the fact that anything and everything I do gets subjected to such a ludicrous level of WIFOM that it's a waste of time and energy.
If you want to see my case against Alan, you can go re-read the one I already posted that nobody was interested in seeing. If you want to see a new case against him, go make one. A confirmed townie who sheeps and refuses to think is the best thing that can happen to scum, so don't expect me to ask "How high" when you say "Jump", you're a detriment to the rest of us.
First, it was scummy that I wasn't making a case against every single person in the game, including the dead ones. Now it's scummy that I'm looking at everyone. Make up your damn minds, or lynch me, which, I'm sure, will be followed by convincing yourselves it was my fault so you don't have to address your inability to think critically.
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On August 06 2012 12:21 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 12:10 Shady Sands wrote:On August 06 2012 11:25 JingleHell wrote:
Are they mutually exclusive? Is there a problem with seeing something as being a scumslip? Even if you people are too busy wallowing in your WIFOM and confirmation bias about me to see it, DarthPunk seems to be preparing town to sheep him after I flip green. But you just pretty much tossed your entire case on Alan133 out the window and posted a one-liner statement on Darthpunk. That might make sense for an ##unvote, but you went ahead and voted Darthpunk anyhow. That's really wierd. If you're so hell-bent on proving that you're a contributing townie, why don't you build a longer case on Darthpunk before telling town to "flail around and die" once you get lynched? I'm not hellbent on proving anything. I'm pointing to something scummy as hell. If you don't think it's suspicious now, you might later, if I get lynched, since I'll flip green. I actually already gave up on proving my innocence, if you were too thick to figure that out. Something to do with the fact that anything and everything I do gets subjected to such a ludicrous level of WIFOM that it's a waste of time and energy. If you want to see my case against Alan, you can go re-read the one I already posted that nobody was interested in seeing. If you want to see a new case against him, go make one. A confirmed townie who sheeps and refuses to think is the best thing that can happen to scum, so don't expect me to ask "How high" when you say "Jump", you're a detriment to the rest of us. First, it was scummy that I wasn't making a case against every single person in the game, including the dead ones. Now it's scummy that I'm looking at everyone. Make up your damn minds, or lynch me, which, I'm sure, will be followed by convincing yourselves it was my fault so you don't have to address your inability to think critically.
Look. You still haven't answered my question yet. Why are you suspicious of DP? What is scummy? Is it just his defense of you alone?
It's day 4. If you want to make a vote, you need to present a better case than a one-liner. I saw your play in XXI. You're better than this.
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On August 06 2012 13:15 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 12:21 JingleHell wrote:On August 06 2012 12:10 Shady Sands wrote:On August 06 2012 11:25 JingleHell wrote:
Are they mutually exclusive? Is there a problem with seeing something as being a scumslip? Even if you people are too busy wallowing in your WIFOM and confirmation bias about me to see it, DarthPunk seems to be preparing town to sheep him after I flip green. But you just pretty much tossed your entire case on Alan133 out the window and posted a one-liner statement on Darthpunk. That might make sense for an ##unvote, but you went ahead and voted Darthpunk anyhow. That's really wierd. If you're so hell-bent on proving that you're a contributing townie, why don't you build a longer case on Darthpunk before telling town to "flail around and die" once you get lynched? I'm not hellbent on proving anything. I'm pointing to something scummy as hell. If you don't think it's suspicious now, you might later, if I get lynched, since I'll flip green. I actually already gave up on proving my innocence, if you were too thick to figure that out. Something to do with the fact that anything and everything I do gets subjected to such a ludicrous level of WIFOM that it's a waste of time and energy. If you want to see my case against Alan, you can go re-read the one I already posted that nobody was interested in seeing. If you want to see a new case against him, go make one. A confirmed townie who sheeps and refuses to think is the best thing that can happen to scum, so don't expect me to ask "How high" when you say "Jump", you're a detriment to the rest of us. First, it was scummy that I wasn't making a case against every single person in the game, including the dead ones. Now it's scummy that I'm looking at everyone. Make up your damn minds, or lynch me, which, I'm sure, will be followed by convincing yourselves it was my fault so you don't have to address your inability to think critically. Look. You still haven't answered my question yet. Why are you suspicious of DP? What is scummy? Is it just his defense of you alone? It's day 4. If you want to make a vote, you need to present a better case than a one-liner. I saw your play in XXI. You're better than this.
If you saw my play in XXI, you know that something exactly like this is how I got a scum lynched. Do me a favor, and don't tell me how to play, when everything I've said to now has been blown off anyways.
It would be better all around if confirmed townies would try to make cases, instead of looking for chances to sheep.
I already explained what's scummy, it's the fact that he's laying the groundwork for people leading a case against me to look like scum after I flip green.
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On August 06 2012 13:21 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 13:15 Shady Sands wrote:On August 06 2012 12:21 JingleHell wrote:On August 06 2012 12:10 Shady Sands wrote:On August 06 2012 11:25 JingleHell wrote:
Are they mutually exclusive? Is there a problem with seeing something as being a scumslip? Even if you people are too busy wallowing in your WIFOM and confirmation bias about me to see it, DarthPunk seems to be preparing town to sheep him after I flip green. But you just pretty much tossed your entire case on Alan133 out the window and posted a one-liner statement on Darthpunk. That might make sense for an ##unvote, but you went ahead and voted Darthpunk anyhow. That's really wierd. If you're so hell-bent on proving that you're a contributing townie, why don't you build a longer case on Darthpunk before telling town to "flail around and die" once you get lynched? I'm not hellbent on proving anything. I'm pointing to something scummy as hell. If you don't think it's suspicious now, you might later, if I get lynched, since I'll flip green. I actually already gave up on proving my innocence, if you were too thick to figure that out. Something to do with the fact that anything and everything I do gets subjected to such a ludicrous level of WIFOM that it's a waste of time and energy. If you want to see my case against Alan, you can go re-read the one I already posted that nobody was interested in seeing. If you want to see a new case against him, go make one. A confirmed townie who sheeps and refuses to think is the best thing that can happen to scum, so don't expect me to ask "How high" when you say "Jump", you're a detriment to the rest of us. First, it was scummy that I wasn't making a case against every single person in the game, including the dead ones. Now it's scummy that I'm looking at everyone. Make up your damn minds, or lynch me, which, I'm sure, will be followed by convincing yourselves it was my fault so you don't have to address your inability to think critically. Look. You still haven't answered my question yet. Why are you suspicious of DP? What is scummy? Is it just his defense of you alone? It's day 4. If you want to make a vote, you need to present a better case than a one-liner. I saw your play in XXI. You're better than this. If you saw my play in XXI, you know that something exactly like this is how I got a scum lynched. Do me a favor, and don't tell me how to play, when everything I've said to now has been blown off anyways. It would be better all around if confirmed townies would try to make cases, instead of looking for chances to sheep. I already explained what's scummy, it's the fact that he's laying the groundwork for people leading a case against me to look like scum after I flip green.
How? Let's say you flip green--what could DP say to make people leading a case against you look like scum? And how are you so sure the people who are leading a case against you aren't scum?
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Since you're just spouting nonsense without any visible effort to actually understand what's being said, I'll let you figure out for yourself how I meant that, because repeating myself is getting nowhere.
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I'm hesitant to call this a case, because from what I understand, a case is more a post by post analysis of one or two people showing that they're scum. Instead, this is an analysis of the current situation as a whole. Because of this, it's EASY for scum to break this post down and address only a few points. Make sure that scum can't take advantage of this. They must address the whole post, or the conclusion. Not just cherry pick some parts. (I'm especially expecting DP to try to dismantle the first point against him, and try to shift the whole portion against him to that)
Right, I'm starting this post at 00:28 GMT (+00:00).
In this post, I'm going to be analyzing the current situation.
I believe there are two likely scum scenarios. Either
A) Zork/Jingle/Darthpunk
or
B) Zork/Darthpunk/Alan
I'm leaning towards situation A. However, because I think there's still a small chance situation B exists, I'm changing my vote to
##vote Darthpunk, in the hopes that others will follow the lead of Ange and I. If there is a threat of no lynch, I will change to Jingle.
Let's be honest. Zork's doctor claim was fairly obviously there to let scum have an excuse to swap to his bandwagon. The people who swapped are me, alan, jingle, and darthpunk. I know I'm innocent, but it's up to you guys to decide that for yourselves, though it should be fairly self evident especially with this post that I'm town.
This leaves Alan, Jingle, and DP.
Jingle
Everyone is fairly certain that Jingle is mafia, because of several 'scum slips'. I'm not going to address what others have talked about countless times. However, Jingle's latest post is quite intriguing.
+ Show Spoiler +On August 06 2012 10:28 JingleHell wrote:I'm entirely amused that playing LoL for the day turns me into a ragequit, in a game where there's literally no point in me trying to defend myself, because unless a scum attacking me claims scum, the tunnel won't get off me. Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 08:55 DarthPunk wrote:
Of course I am ignoring jingle. 1.) I have a town read on him, and 2.) he is not in the thread to defend himself so accusing him would not reap any new information. It is also odd that you were lurking the thread, not contributing anything and then almost immediately after myself and obvious link you with being scum you come out with that rather ironic post. By the way, DarthPunk... much as I appreciate the vote of confidence, claiming you have a townread on me at this point makes me wonder if you're setting people up to look bad after I flip. ##Vote DarthPunk
So, why would Jingle make this post? Let's say for a minute that he's scum, as that's what most of us believe. He posted that in the hopes that if DP gets lynched, then he'll look clean. Also, if he gets lynched, it'll help DP look clean as well. However, we can't ignore the fact that townJingleHell would make a similar move. It seems as if Ange has also seen this possibility: that Darthpunk could easily just be setting up to be in the clear when JingleHell flips green.
He later even makes this post:
+ Show Spoiler +On August 06 2012 11:25 JingleHell wrote:
Are they mutually exclusive? Is there a problem with seeing something as being a scumslip? Even if you people are too busy wallowing in your WIFOM and confirmation bias about me to see it, DarthPunk seems to be preparing town to sheep him after I flip green.
So for Jingle, while I'm FAIRLY sure that he's scum, I think there's a possibility that he's innocent and it's DP/Alan.
Darthpunk
This line of reasoning is going to seem a bit silly, but I think it's just piling onto the evidence DP has left us. + Show Spoiler +On August 04 2012 03:05 Zorkmid wrote:
I didn't want to have to do this just yet.
I am a Doctor
On day one I saved Keir.
Day 2 I attempted to save aRyuujin.
I tried to breadcrumb this early on.
Show nested quote +
##unvote
##vote Mordanis
I think we're going to lose. On August 05 2012 11:12 DarthPunk wrote:
So I have read through the thread. First up I would like to say GG mordanis my great sparring partner. I always believed you to be scum but I was proven wrong. I hope you can forgive me for tunnelling you so hard all game.
I am going to write up a long post addressing the cases against me.
On the thing with the post timing. It was 4am at the time and I wanted to get some sleep. It was tied at 5-5 and even though I was leaning towards Zork being just a bad townie rather than scum. I would rather lynch him than a no lynch. I actually didn't see zorks post because it happened whilst I was writing mine. I honestly just wanted to go to bed and didn't want to risk a no lynch.
(obviously I stayed up for an extra hour because of his medic claim.)
I have suspicions on who may be scum and I will make a case on them at some stage also. But I have some reading to do before class tomorrow so it won't come immediately (I will work on these posts on and off all day)
That being said we are in a really good position at the moment. So I am glad people didn't listen to me which is ironic because yesterday I was annoyed mord was getting away again.
Yes, this is weak. However, it is just icing on the proverbial cake.
Something that I don't think has been brought up in this context is this post:
+ Show Spoiler +On August 03 2012 23:04 DarthPunk wrote:@Jingle @Ange777 Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 22:19 Ange777 wrote:
@DarthPunk: You said you will re-read my case on Jingle? What's your opinion? Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 06:01 Ange777 wrote:
But only a couple of hours later (to be precise directly after I had posted my case against Zork) you had miraculously not only finished reading the thread, no you also had a very strong conviction that I am scummy. Based on arguments you yet have to show me. And while you have been tunneling me you have totally ignored my case on Zork based on his scumslip and the following reactions.
Would you please give me a town motivation for ignoring the case on Zork? Oh, and please keep in mind, attacking me doesn't qualify as a defense! So this is just wrong. Jingle started airing suspicions against you well before you started going after zork. In no way is the jingle situation between you and him relevant to the zork case. I don't know why you would draw that connection at all. If you had read the last game you will see that jingle caught scum by Identifying and avoiding a similar situation so it is understandable that he would be on the look out for a repeat of that. Your response to him was OMGUS and WIFOM. I can understand why he finds you suspicious, particularly when you immediately become super aggressive towards him when he posts a case on you. I don't really think you have a case on him to be honest. I initially had a small town read on you but after actually reading through the discussion between yourself and jingle I am starting to worry about you. Your reaction to jingle's pressure was an incredibly disproportionate response, and trying to draw a connection to a case you posted hours after jingle had first cast suspicion on you is very suspicious to me. I don't see any connections whatsoever between Jingles pressure on you and your case on zork. I have no idea why you would try and draw a connection that wasn't there. It seems to be OMGUS. but I don't like the fact that several aspects of your case (Jingle connection, MrMedic post) seem to have fallen apart on closer inspection and the fact that many of the other points could just be bad town play, makes me even more wary of following your lynch on Zork. It seems like it is just an attempt to make an easy mislynch on a lurky bad town player.
Once more, though it's not an IRONCLAD HARDCORE damning post, it's something that seems very... interesting.
Essentially, Ange begins to link Zorkmid and JingleHell. Darthpunk strikes that down without providing much real evidence, and begins accusing Ange. Why? Because he/she is making these connections. DP even says something to that degree, at I initially had a small town read on you but after actually reading through the discussion between yourself and jingle I am starting to worry about you. Your reaction to jingle's pressure was an incredibly disproportionate response, and trying to draw a connection to a case you posted hours after jingle had first cast suspicion on you is very suspicious to me.
I don't see any connections whatsoever between Jingles pressure on you and your case on zork. I have no idea why you would try and draw a connection that wasn't there. . If you reread this section of the post, it's quite obviously leaning towards a scumDarthpunk trying to protect his scum buddies. He even goes on to make this post (talking to Ange)You seem to have been desperate to link jingle hell to your zorkmid case even though his case on you began hours earlier. You asked me several times to state why I felt the Zork case was weaker, and are now using all those answers you dug for yesterday in order to build a case that isn't there. It seems as if you 100% KNEW that zork would flip red. And then desperately tried to manufacture connections to him wherever you could. I can 100% see a scum motivation for this you bussed zork and not only gained 'confirmed town' status but have also set up 2 mislynches. , further showing his determination to bust that link.
And finally, as I mentioned earlier, if you look at the last page of his filter, he progressively gets more and more emotional and lashes out at the people who accuse him. Like I noted when discussing Jingle, this seems to be a fairly scum move.
Honestly, there's only one thing that made me a bit unsure of DP's red status. That's the NK of Mordanis. It seemed a LOT easier for scum to keep Mordanis alive than to kill him. He served as DP's punching bag for a quite a while, and he was a fairly controversial figure. It'd be easy to get a mislynch on him, right? However, this could also serve as a fairly decent defense, too. Not only does it seem less likely for DP to be mafia on Mord's green flip, but Mord was beginning to really hunt down DP. By eliminating him, mafia removes one threat who is highly motivated to hunt down a scum Darthpunk.
It also has the benefit of not being a super telling kill, like NK of Ange could be.
After looking at DP, I'm like 100% sure that he's scum. Either Jingle or Alan are his buddies. Because I'm so sure of it, like Ange(oh people are gonna yell at me for this -.-) I'd strongly urge town to vote DP today and (likely)Jingle tomorrow.
Alan113
One thing that makes me believe it's not Zork/Alan/Jingle is this post: + Show Spoiler +On August 04 2012 06:07 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 23:35 alan133 wrote:
@Zorkmid
What the heck is your game? Where the fuck did you go? Why did you go out and posted that "SCUM SLIP"? Why are you making such a big deal about a stupid relief post? Why do reading your filter makes me want to vote for you so bloody much?
Why did you sheep? Why were your cases a rehash of everyone else's case? Where is your own reads? You and all the lurkers are all hurting town, or is being INCREDIBLY LAZY SCUMS.
This came 5 hours before your vote. I voted late too, but I wasn't sold until the pathetic fakeclaim. You wanted to vote for him so bloody much but waited 5 hours anyway.
Alan's most recent post ends with this:I would like to put my vote on VOTE## JingleHell, and FOS## DarthPunk. I believe we got this in the bag
At that point, I think that's one of the better town things to do.
Humor me for a minute, though. Let's pretend Alan is scum with DP. It's actually STILL a decent move, as I'm sure scum has realized that Darthpunk is starting to get quite a bit of heat and may believe that this pseudobussing of DP could give Alan the edge he needs to be appear as a semiconfirmed townie.
In the same post, he also makes this assertion (regarding Me and MrMedic/JingleHell):I am not saying both can't be town (or with WIFOM, scum), but it won't make sense if both are town, unless there is some ballsy bussing maneuver going on in day 3. This is a fairly scum thing to do. He's suggesting in a fairly noncommital way that if Jingle is green, then I am red. He's basically setting up a next day mislynch of either of us, and he does this in a HUGELY scummy way, where he's set it up in a way that he can take back and explain away easily.
After looking at Alan, I think the chance of it being DP/Alan goes up quite a bit. While Jingle is definitely more likely, we can't ignore the possibility of DP/Alan.
Conclusion
To conclude:
Basically, there are two options. Either it's Zork/DP/Jingle or Zork/DP/Alan. Either way, DP is scum. Let's lynch him, and pick Jingle tomorrow.
I finished this portion at 04:17 GMT (+00:00).
I'm now going to address Goodkarma's post.
+ Show Spoiler +On August 06 2012 12:13 goodkarma wrote:As promised, here is my most recent impressions on aRyuujin. @aRyuujin:So, recent developments for aRyuujin include what I consider to be his first "real" analysis post. Bolded are the parts of it that stood out to me, and what I'd like to discuss. This post is where I'll start: + Show Spoiler +On August 05 2012 17:19 aRyuujin wrote:@Shady Sands: Basically, you're saying that my main scum tell is that I'm lurky. While I definitely AM lurky, it's not because I'm scum, it's because I barely have stuff to say . Even when I do contribute, people point out that I'm just agreeing with others. Hell, I even missed the day 2 lynch (though that was because I was incredibly busy). If I was scum, I'd at least have jumped on a bandwagon or something beforehand, rather than thinking I'd be able to make up my mind later (and consequently missing the vote). On Jingle:
Recently, he's made a lot of emotional/fluff posts. At least in IRL mafia, when someone does that, it's generally because they can no longer find strong defenses against the arguments made against them. However, I don't see why Jingle would be so obvious in his 'fuck it they got me' attitude, especially considering how many believe he is experienced and skilled. On Darthpunk: like others have noted, that 'breadcrumb' by zork could easily have been just a way to give DP an excuse to seem anti zork. Note how previously, he was reluctant on voting zork, and finally changed when he saw there was no point in not doing so. This is a typical scum move, just trying to blend in with the other townies and going with the bandwagon. In fact, at one point he even calls zork a bad player (presumably for pulling the crappy breadcrumb stunt). This falls in sync with DP's other actions regarding the mordanis vs zork swap. Because of his recent somewhat random defense of Jingle, I'm led to believe that if Jingle is scum, then so is DP Also remember that one of the remaining mafia is godfather, meaning he will not turn up red. This means that a cop check will be substantially less effective, and the 2 mafia can cover/defend each other more easily. On Ange: I actually didn't have much of an opinion on he/she, but what Shady said makes sense to me. It's highly unlikely that scum would bus at that point, meaning that ange is in the clear. on GK: I initially had a somewhat scummy read on him. However, I think his recent posts seem really town oriented, and I have a feeling I was heavily influenced by his game long tunneling of me. Because he's been going after Jingle, I find it highly unlikely that he's mafia if Jingle is. At this point, I was debating between Jingle and Darthpunk. However, I'm voting for Jingle because of 3 main things
1)I'm fairly certain Jingle is scum
2)If Jingle is mafia, then it puts the nail in the coffin imo that Darthpunk is scum. It also somewhat confirms GK's town status
3)It's our best chance of getting a lynch at this point, seeing as Shady Sands is going for it, and is our most confirmed townie. aRyuujin's excuse for never posting: "it's because I barely have stuff to say" I find this very hard to believe. Why would you even bother playing this game if you went in with the intention of contributing nothing? What satisfaction could you possibly get, even if you won, if you weren't in any way responsible for the outcome of the game? While pretty much everything you've said to date has been rehashings of others' views, several things stuck out to me about this post: When discussing Jingle's most recent actions: "Recently, he's made a lot of emotional/fluff posts. At least in IRL mafia, when someone does that, it's generally because they can no longer find strong defenses against the arguments made against them. However, I don't see why Jingle would be so obvious in his 'fuck it they got me' attitude, especially considering how many believe he is experienced and skilled." This is really the first point that seems to actually come from you. If you want any chance at establishing your innocence you will need to start making many more posts with points like this, where you create arguements of your own that portray your perspective of who is scum. "It's highly unlikely that scum would bus at that point, meaning that ange is in the clear." So this point from Shady makes sense to you... Why exactly does it make sense to you? This has been one of the biggest issues I've had with you all game. You seem to go, "Yeah, what he said." There's nothing wrong with this, as long as you also add some content of your own to demonstrate to us exactly why it is you agree with a certain view. Regarding me: "I initially had a somewhat scummy read on him. However, I think his recent posts seem really town oriented, and I have a feeling I was heavily influenced by his game long tunneling of me. Because he's been going after Jingle, I find it highly unlikely that he's mafia if Jingle is." This is yet another view of your own. Why is this the first time we are hearing about this? If you had a scummy read on me, you should have shared it with everyone. The last thing I remember you saying of your read on me was something like: Then there's this closing point from you: "2)If Jingle is mafia, then it puts the nail in the coffin imo that Darthpunk is scum." You'd better explain this better, because in no way do I see this to be necessarily true. I've already brought to attention your rehashings of others' arguements in your "cases," and why I believe your "lurking" to be deliberate. This is all clearly spelled out in my case against you. But also, there's this: Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 01:48 aRyuujin wrote:
-snip-
Suspecting me-Smart
I did not yet provide posts
Either i'm scum or
A really bad Town. This shows to me that you have some idea what it takes to be a good town. You clearly know that lurking hurts town. So why, exactly, is it that now, of all times you feel compelled to actually try to contribute? My suspicion is that it has something to do with people mentioning you as a suspect again. You had a brief flurry of activity while defending yourself when Golbat and myself had voted for you on Day 1. You explained it as a fear of "a bandwagon forming around you." The bottom line is I actually like your + Show Spoiler +post (or at least the parts of it that you provided your own analysis). I am deeply suspicious, though, of the timing of your new activity, as well as why it took until day 4 before you felt inspired to contribute anything of value. And regarding this quote: Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 06:33 aRyuujin wrote:
Expect Goodkarma to paint me as 100% scum #3, he's been tunneling me literally all game long No, aRyuujin. I'm not going to say you're 100% scum. I wouldn't even say that of JingleHell, who I'm currently pretty sure is scum. What I will say, though, is that to date you've done nothing to establish your innocence, and that's every townie's responsibility (if a townie you truly are). In fact everything you've written to date has read scummy to me. If you've seen my more recent case writeup on you it should be apparent why. If you plan to have a chance at showing your innocence, you will be doubling your posting activity right now and establishing some cases that demonstrate your views on who is scum. If you're in agreement with someone, you will clearly explain why what they say makes sense. Basically, you will start to do what you should have been doing since day one. Unfortunately, no amount of activity now is going to make up for your posting habits to date. But you can still work on showing you can actually contribute. This will go a long ways in showing you're pro-town. But as of right now, I'm planning my vote for Day 5 to still be on you. Instead of being "annoyed" with me, I encourage you to do something about it.
On his first suggestion:
I find this very hard to believe. Why would you even bother playing this game if you went in with the intention of contributing nothing? What satisfaction could you possibly get, even if you won, if you weren't in any way responsible for the outcome of the game?
I played because I love IRL mafia. I've played hundreds of games of IRL mafia on school trips to competitions, during lunch, and exam periods that my friends and I are exempt from. I rarely had stuff to say because this is my first game of forum mafia on any forum. I'm used to making calls based on people's emotions, their faces, and their personalities. I think this is a fairly silly thing to say, saying that I will know what to say, how to say it, and when to say it, just because I know you should contribute. After all, look at Golbat. He tried to contribute, but didn't do it correctly. If anyone still does believe I'm scum, it really shouldn't be because of this.
The next thing he says:
This is really the first point that seems to actually come from you. If you want any chance at establishing your innocence you will need to start making many more posts with points like this, where you create arguements of your own that portray your perspective of who is scum.
One of the reasons I could come up with this is irl mafia. It's a typical tell there. And I'm fairly sure what I'm doing in this post addresses everything else in this section.
He goes on to say:
So this point from Shady makes sense to you... Why exactly does it make sense to you? This has been one of the biggest issues I've had with you all game. You seem to go, "Yeah, what he said." There's nothing wrong with this, as long as you also add some content of your own to demonstrate to us exactly why it is you agree with a certain view.
I agree with something... because I agree with it. Isn't that how it works? That what someone says makes sense? I can add a sentence saying, oh it makes sense because scum has 0 need to bus at that point, it only hurts them. But then people would say that I'm just paraphrasing the quote.
he then says:
Regarding me:
"I initially had a somewhat scummy read on him. However, I think his recent posts seem really town oriented, and I have a feeling I was heavily influenced by his game long tunneling of me. Because he's been going after Jingle, I find it highly unlikely that he's mafia if Jingle is."
This is yet another view of your own. Why is this the first time we are hearing about this? If you had a scummy read on me, you should have shared it with everyone. The last thing I remember you saying of your read on me was something like:
On July 28 2012 09:24 aRyuujin wrote:
-snip-
You still feel like town
The reason why I never mentioned it is because from what I understand, OMGUS votes are largely discouraged. I had a somewhat scum read on you, but I feel like it was basically a defensive reaction to your accusing me all game long based on what I felt was largely... nothing. If I start talking about why I think you might be scum when there are bigger fish to fry, it's not really helping town, especially when it's probably colored with my own defensive reaction.
The last part of his post that I feel is really relevant is:
Then there's this closing point from you:
"2)If Jingle is mafia, then it puts the nail in the coffin imo that Darthpunk is scum."
You'd better explain this better, because in no way do I see this to be necessarily true.
I said this because I was certain that DP was mafia. I feel like I discussed it enough in that post, and it was pretty much there to encourage a lynch of Darthpunk (who I am still 100% certain is mafia).
He questions the timing of my post, as well.
Basically, I have a ton of free time today and tomorrow, and I noticed stuff.
He then basically says I need to provide analysis to be town. Like I said earlier, this post pretty much handles that, I think.
Sorry this took so long, I had to eat dinner and do some other stuff in the middle -.-
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EBWOP
ugh I do this all the time(forget to add one line) but I'll be back to this thread in around 15-30 minutes. I will not see anything posted in the meantime until I get back
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Well stated, Ryuujin, and I think it helps coming from someone who isn't me. Summarized nicely, and with far more patience than I'm capable of showing some of these people at this point.
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Great post aRyuujin. Guys, if you haven't read through this stuff yet, do it. General trends:
DP opens up on Ange after Ange attacks Jingle
DP says he is not sure of JingleHell's scumminess
Jingle thinks DP is trying to build towncred if Jingle flips green
aRyuujin posts explaining his dual-scenario case (Zork/Jingle/DP vs Zork/DP/Alan)
Before night begins, I want everyone who hasn't posted on this lynch yet to get their 2 cents in. While I think Jingle is scum, that doesn't mean he's wrong when he says a lot of us have sheeped on lynches over the past few cycles in this game. So I'd like to ask each townie to please, please make a post explaining their vote clearly before committing to it.
I'll reiterate that my read on JH is based on how Zork's fakeclaim seemed designed to give him cover to switch the vote, how JH seemed to have premonitions that Zork would flip red while still voting Mordanis for no good reason whatsoever, and finally how his reaction to the accusations failed the "5 key characteristics of scum" test.
As for why I'm voting JH now as opposed to going with DP now and JH later, I will say it's because knocking out JH and another night cycle will clear up a lot of doubt between DP and aRyuujin (who I still believe are the strongest candidates for the 3rd scum at the moment.)
Finally, given that those 2 scenarios that aRyuujin listed above are the 2 major possibilities, then why not lynch JH today so we can exonerate (or not exonerate) Alan? Under that set of scenarios, lynching DP today, and having him flip town, would tell us less than JH flipping red/green.
## Vote JingleHell
Everyone please write your reasons out for the vote. But also remember that we need 5 out of 6 townies for a lynch and a lynch is critical. Don't WIFOM. Don't call for more time to analyze. Drive towards a conclusion. But please, please state your own reasons. Thank you.
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Here are the people who I'd like to see post in this thread between now and lynch time:
Alan
Obvious
Ange
Darth--him especially
Thanks all and let's get this rolling.
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@Shady:
Why not kill the guaranteed scum now? unless you're of the opinion that me/Jingle or alan/jingle(which I think we basically ruled out) is more likely than DP/alan, then it's objectively better not to risk that 1% that we end up mislynching Jingle.
Also, in case the mods don't see my vote tangled up in the huge post I made up above, I voted DP:
##unvote and ##vote Darthpunk
And Shady, if the consensus is still that we need to lynch Jingle first, rest assured that I will vote Jingle over a mislynch. I just believe that it's in our best interests to hit DP first.
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HI just got back from uni. Will look through the thread and post shortly after.
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@ aRyuujins ROFLCASE
On August 06 2012 13:43 aRyuujin wrote:
This line of reasoning is going to seem a bit silly, but I think it's just piling onto the evidence DP has left us. + Show Spoiler + happened at 3:05, after which DP immediately posts voting for Zork, (looks like he started writing that post before zork pulled the whole claim thing). DP posts again 4 minutes after Zork's claim. I think it's quite possible for them to have decided on the mafia qt, "k, bros, imma pull this stunt so u can accuse me," Zork claims, and immediately DP responds, helping him cover for the fact that he was SUCH a late switcher. Thought this has been brought up by Mordanis and Ange, it's pretty much disregarded because it's so situational. (It pretty much gets forgotten) The thing that makes this move from 100% WIFOM to kind of useful imo is this post: + Show Spoiler + Here, he defends himself from the accusations of Ange and Mord by saying it was late. However, he doesn't talk about ANY other part of those cases. Instead, he just brings up irl problems why he couldn't. The biggest thing here is that he says he was up an extra hour. Why the hell did that happen? When I saw that post, I was like k, wtf is he doing, and voted him and moved on. Especially considering he says it was incredibly late in the morning, (and that during this hour all he did was make two tiny posts at the very end) it sounds to me like he's just trying to paint himself as a mislead townie brought to his senses by Zork's move.
Yes, this is weak. However, it is just icing on the proverbial cake.
This is nothing. I have also already responded to this several times in what I believe to be a satisfactory way. It is interesting that there is so little to go off that half a page of your 'case' on me is so impotent. It is also interesting that once again you are bringing nothing to the thread or the case on me that is new or original. Just once again repeating allegations that others have stated and I have cleared up.
About staying up an hour later. I was interested in the medic claim and I was finishing watching heros game in ASUS ROG whilst I was in bed. I did fully intend on going to bed however I changed my mind (oh my god how scummy wtf?)
I was posting my Vote switch at the time and did not see the zork claim. Just from reading my next post this should be clear as I immediately address it. I switched to prevent a no lynch. nothing more, nothing less. I said I would do this at the very beginning and I stuck to it. I don't know why this seems to be so difficult to understand but that is what happened. As you say this allegation is piss weak. and I don;t know how many times people like yourself will bring it up when I have already addressed it. If you are going to make a case. Might I suggest instead of repeating others ad nauseum you actually contribute some original thought. or anything. at all. In no way does this constitute any part of a case. Just saying it is suspicious does not mean anything.
Moving on.
On August 06 2012 13:43 aRyuujin wrote:
Something that I don't think has been brought up in this context is this post:
+ Show Spoiler +
Once more, though it's not an IRONCLAD HARDCORE damning post, it's something that seems very... interesting.
Essentially, Ange begins to link Zorkmid and JingleHell. Darthpunk strikes that down without providing much real evidence, and begins accusing Ange. Why? Because he/she is making these connections. DP even says something to that degree, at
I initially had a small town read on you but after actually reading through the discussion between yourself and jingle I am starting to worry about you. Your reaction to jingle's pressure was an incredibly disproportionate response, and trying to draw a connection to a case you posted hours after jingle had first cast suspicion on you is very suspicious to me.
I don't see any connections whatsoever between Jingles pressure on you and your case on zork. I have no idea why you would try and draw a connection that wasn't there.
. If you reread this section of the post, it's quite obviously leaning towards a scumDarthpunk trying to protect his scum buddies. He even goes on to make this post (talking to Ange)
You seem to have been desperate to link jingle hell to your zorkmid case even though his case on you began hours earlier. You asked me several times to state why I felt the Zork case was weaker, and are now using all those answers you dug for yesterday in order to build a case that isn't there. It seems as if you 100% KNEW that zork would flip red. And then desperately tried to manufacture connections to him wherever you could. I can 100% see a scum motivation for this you bussed zork and not only gained 'confirmed town' status but have also set up 2 mislynches.
, further showing his determination to bust that link. [/b]
So you are saying that I need to provide evidence in order to prove something isn't there? Really?
Ange needed to provide evidence something was there. Something other than Jingle is accusing me whilst I accuse someone else. That is not a link. Jingle started against Ange HOURS before that. and at that time this was her entire argument. So not providing evidence for a link existing is townie. But me asking for evidence for a link existing is? Right.
On August 06 2012 13:43 aRyuujin wrote:
And finally, as I mentioned earlier, if you look at the last page of his filter, he progressively gets more and more emotional and lashes out at the people who accuse him. Like I noted when discussing Jingle, this seems to be a fairly scum move.
So the only case you have that is new or not retarded is that you perceive emotion in a text base game which is incredibly difficult to both convey and perceive emotion through.
I don't know how to respond to your perceptions of emotion that isn't there. but next time you write a wall of text 'case' against me could you please include a case?
If anyone sees something important could someone please convey it to me. Concisely if possible lol.
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EPT
