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On August 05 2012 20:15 Ange777 wrote:
EBWODP:
Of course I was desperate.
1. I was trying to get you to see the obvious scumslip but nobody seemed to understand.
2. Jingle was claiming that I didn't defend myself and accused my based on nothing while I had explained my behaviour more than once to him.
And while he was needlessly tunneling me, he completely ignored the case on Zork (and the one on Mordanis btw). This is no pro town play therefore my frustration.
Sorry, he accused me, not my -.-
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On August 05 2012 20:09 Ange777 wrote:
Yes, I asked you why you believe the Zork case to be weaker. The only explanation you were offering was he might just be a bad townie. You were not even convinced of his bad town status yourself, you were only giving him the benefit of doubt. This of course will look like a huge soft defense after a red flip.
Yes I believed he may just be a bad town. I also believed he could be a bad scum. However I was 100% convinced that mord was scum. So I followed my own case I had made over several days and that I was 100% sure of. Rather than switch to a case I was 50/50 on until it was evident that there would be a no lynch if I did not switch. (which I had stated previously to you I would do, so why is it so surprising that I carried through on my word?)
Is that a problem?
On August 05 2012 20:09 Ange777 wrote:
This of course will look like a huge soft defense after a red flip.
Except the 'soft defense' you are speaking of is entirely of your own making through asking me for my thought processes behind not voting your way. You obviously were aware of how the questions you asked would cause me to look when zork flipped red and thus proceeded to lead me into a trap that I was blissfully unaware of until now.
On August 05 2012 20:09 Ange777 wrote:
You proceed to say that I tried and still am trying to link Zork with Jingle. While I agree that he first caught my eye due to his behaviour towards Zork (not commenting on Zork at all etc)
He did not catch your eye because of zork. Why are you lying? the situation between yourself and jingle started BEFORE YOUR CASE ON ZORK
Originally I thought it was just an OMGUS against Jingle. I later found the case on jingle suspicious because you were trying to link someone who had cast suspicion on you BEFORE YOUR CASE ON ZORK to Zork when the link obviously wasn't there at that time.
On August 05 2012 20:09 Ange777 wrote:
Regarding the last past: Yes, I knew that Zork would flip red because I saw the scumslip which everyone else failed to see. You say that you see a scum motivation for me to make the case against Zork but you are not willing to give me any benefit of doubt (which you were so happy to give to Zork) that I might have just saw the scumslip, be convinced of Zork's scum-alignment by it and therefore started the case? Instead you claim that me making the Zork case was 100% scum motivation?
You knew zork would flip red based on a scumslip you had ignored for an entire day and even quoted when unvoting him to join the prom bandwagon? A scum slip that still could have very easily come from a bad town?
If zork was a bus then scum are in a FAR better position now than if we had mislynched mordanis. They have set up consecutive lynches into the future. They have sewn this game up.
I see a scum motivation for you. I did not see any motivation for zorks blatantly bad play. Until now.
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Ok I am going to bed now. It will be nice not having to post until 5 am for once. lol.
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I am not lying. The situation with Jingle might have started earlier. But everyone makes bad cases from time to time. That's why I didn't give it that much thought when Jingle first started to accuse me. I only became really suspicious of him when he continued to accuse me (without good reason), voted for me and refused to even acknowledge the fact that there were cases against other people as well.
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On August 05 2012 21:00 Ange777 wrote:
I am not lying. The situation with Jingle might have started earlier. But everyone makes bad cases from time to time. That's why I didn't give it that much thought when Jingle first started to accuse me. I only became really suspicious of him when he continued to accuse me (without good reason), voted for me and refused to even acknowledge the fact that there were cases against other people as well.
OK so what you are saying is that jingle predicted ahead of time that you would make a case on zork and then began tunnelling you ahead of time in order to save his scum buddy? Is that how jingle and zork are linked?
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damn thread. always distracting me from sleeping. 
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No, I am only saying he tunneled me. When I defended myself against his accusations, he refused to accept them and instead tunneled me even more. His vote on me only came after I had posted the case on Zork. Might be unfortunate timing but it seems just too coincidental. Furthermore his case was just simply bad. Go back and re-read it for yourself. If you don't feel that way, please tell me why but his case did not have any solid points! And given the fact that right now Jingle has disappeared instead of making a decent case, playing his town meta, etc ... it just supports the scum Jingle case.
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On August 05 2012 20:52 DarthPunk wrote:Yes I believed he may just be a bad town. I also believed he could be a bad scum. However I was 100% convinced that mord was scum. So I followed my own case I had made over several days and that I was 100% sure of. Rather than switch to a case I was 50/50 on until it was evident that there would be a no lynch if I did not switch. (which I had stated previously to you I would do, so why is it so surprising that I carried through on my word?) Is that a problem? Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 20:09 Ange777 wrote:
This of course will look like a huge soft defense after a red flip. Except the 'soft defense' you are speaking of is entirely of your own making through asking me for my thought processes behind not voting your way. You obviously were aware of how the questions you asked would cause me to look when zork flipped red and thus proceeded to lead me into a trap that I was blissfully unaware of until now. Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 20:09 Ange777 wrote:
You proceed to say that I tried and still am trying to link Zork with Jingle. While I agree that he first caught my eye due to his behaviour towards Zork (not commenting on Zork at all etc) He did not catch your eye because of zork. Why are you lying? the situation between yourself and jingle started BEFORE YOUR CASE ON ZORKOriginally I thought it was just an OMGUS against Jingle. I later found the case on jingle suspicious because you were trying to link someone who had cast suspicion on you BEFORE YOUR CASE ON ZORK to Zork when the link obviously wasn't there at that time. Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 20:09 Ange777 wrote:
Regarding the last past: Yes, I knew that Zork would flip red because I saw the scumslip which everyone else failed to see. You say that you see a scum motivation for me to make the case against Zork but you are not willing to give me any benefit of doubt (which you were so happy to give to Zork) that I might have just saw the scumslip, be convinced of Zork's scum-alignment by it and therefore started the case? Instead you claim that me making the Zork case was 100% scum motivation? You knew zork would flip red based on a scumslip you had ignored for an entire day and even quoted when unvoting him to join the prom bandwagon? A scum slip that still could have very easily come from a bad town? If zork was a bus then scum are in a FAR better position now than if we had mislynched mordanis. They have set up consecutive lynches into the future. They have sewn this game up. I see a scum motivation for you. I did not see any motivation for zorks blatantly bad play. Until now.
Yes, I asked you for the reasons of you not voting Zork. So now I am the all-knowing mastermind who planned out that you would soft defend Zork? How the hell was I supposed to know what you would say? You could have easily said that you were 100% convinced that Zork was town. And while you are arguing that the case against you seems like well initiated and perfectly planned by me there was another one who made a case against you even before me. Confirmed and unfortunately dead townie Mordanis! You might even say I am sheeping his case because most of what he mentioned in his case was repeated in my case. The only difference is that he is not able to argue his case anymore.
I have explained why I didn't notice the slip earlier. I was only thinking about what town Zork would have said and done and totally ignored the fact, that it made so much more sense for a scum Zork to say that.
So you are saying that by bussing Zork scum would have ensured two mislynches. Well if we lynched Jingle and he flipped green, I am sure that the lynch the following day would not be that sure anymore. People would question me as I am pushing for Jingle's lynch and while Shady did the same I am not that confirmed townie as Shady is. Therefore it would be a bold move of a scum me to trade Zork just for one single mislynch which scum would have gotten easily by going with the Mordanis lynch.
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i really have to sleep. I will read through and respond tomorrow.
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One thing before I leave. You say you had no way of knowing how I would respond? you knew I thought the case was weaker so you knew I would respond with something other than zork is 100% scum. Either way you were baiting out ammunition to mislynch me with. If I had stated zork is 100% town would i have looked just as bad if not worse?
Why are you saying that you are sheeping mords case? are you trying to make it seem as if it was a confirmed towns error when you mislynch me? the whole reason there is a case is from what you baited from me. Why ask for my opinion if you were confirmed in your mind that zork was 100% town? I was obviously stupid enough to have an open and transparent discussion with you over my thoughts in good faith. And you are now using that to say I was defending him (you knew i wouldn't be screaming he was scum or I would have voted for him) and now you are distancing yourself from my mislynch by saying you are sheeping a dead town.
Your excuse on missing the slip the first time is the weakest excuse ever..You had a vote on zork but you were only analysing him as if he were town? wtf? do i seem stupid to you? OK going to bed. won;t be around for 12 hours.
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On August 05 2012 21:53 DarthPunk wrote:
One thing before I leave. You say you had no way of knowing how I would respond? you knew I thought the case was weaker so you knew I would respond with something other than zork is 100% scum. Either way you were baiting out ammunition to mislynch me with. If I had stated zork is 100% town would i have looked just as bad if not worse?
Why are you saying that you are sheeping mords case? are you trying to make it seem as if it was a confirmed towns error when you mislynch me? the whole reason there is a case is from what you baited from me. Why ask for my opinion if you were confirmed in your mind that zork was 100% town? I was obviously stupid enough to have an open and transparent discussion with you over my thoughts in good faith. And you are now using that to say I was defending him (you knew i wouldn't be screaming he was scum or I would have voted for him) and now you are distancing yourself from my mislynch by saying you are sheeping a dead town.
Your excuse on missing the slip the first time is the weakest excuse ever..You had a vote on zork but you were only analysing him as if he were town? wtf? do i seem stupid to you? OK going to bed. won;t be around for 12 hours.
If you had said you beleive Zork to be town 100% at least you would have taken a clear stance. And it is always more difficult for scum to take a clear stance instead of saying he could be a bad town player despite his scummy behaviour.
You misunderstood me. I am by no way saying that I am sheeping Mords case. I only wanted to make it clear that as it seems that you are dismissing my case against you as a scum player who is leading a mislynch on you that there has been another player who has made a case against you even before me. And that player is undisputably town.
Why I would ask for your opinion on Zork? Because I was certain of having caught a scum yet no one voted for him. Therefore I wanted to see what the reasons ware for not voting him. Some reasons might be town motivation, some might be scum motivation but I need to see that clearly in order to know who to lynch next.
My excuse on missing the slip might be weak but at least it is honest. I explained it earlier that I intended the vote as a pressure vote on the lurking Zork and had my mind on the Prom and Shady cases. If you can't see a town player being more preoccupied with lynching the ones he believes more scummy than the one he believes to be lurking I don't know what to say.
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@DarthPunk: Let's approach this matter differently. If you were town, who would be your two scum reads besides me?
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EBWOP:
On August 05 2012 22:11 Ange777 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 21:53 DarthPunk wrote:
One thing before I leave. You say you had no way of knowing how I would respond? you knew I thought the case was weaker so you knew I would respond with something other than zork is 100% scum. Either way you were baiting out ammunition to mislynch me with. If I had stated zork is 100% town would i have looked just as bad if not worse?
Why are you saying that you are sheeping mords case? are you trying to make it seem as if it was a confirmed towns error when you mislynch me? the whole reason there is a case is from what you baited from me. Why ask for my opinion if you were confirmed in your mind that zork was 100% town? I was obviously stupid enough to have an open and transparent discussion with you over my thoughts in good faith. And you are now using that to say I was defending him (you knew i wouldn't be screaming he was scum or I would have voted for him) and now you are distancing yourself from my mislynch by saying you are sheeping a dead town.
Your excuse on missing the slip the first time is the weakest excuse ever..You had a vote on zork but you were only analysing him as if he were town? wtf? do i seem stupid to you? OK going to bed. won;t be around for 12 hours. If you had said you beleive Zork to be town 100% at least you would have taken a clear stance. And it is always more difficult for scum to take a clear stance instead of saying he could be a bad town player despite his scummy behaviour. You misunderstood me. I am by no way saying that I am sheeping Mords case. I only wanted to make it clear that as it seems that you are dismissing my case against you as a scum player who is leading a mislynch on you that there has been another player who has made a case against you even before me. And that player is undisputably town. Why I would ask for your opinion on Zork? Because I was certain of having caught a scum yet no one voted for him. Therefore I wanted to see what the reasons were for not voting him. Some reasons might be town motivation, some might be scum motivation but I need to see that clearly in order to know who to lynch next. Furthermore I need to know why in order to convince people of my case. If I don't know why they don't believe in my case, how am I supposed to change their mind?My excuse on missing the slip might be weak but at least it is honest. I explained it earlier that I intended the vote as a pressure vote on the lurking Zork and had my mind on the Prom and Shady cases. If you can't see a town player being more preoccupied with lynching the ones he believes more scummy than the one he believes to be lurking I don't know what to say.
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+ Show Spoiler [Alan's cases] +On August 05 2012 18:26 alan133 wrote:@AngeYes, I am leaning towards a scum Jingle for the same reasons. His shift his FOS towards me seems like a desperation move to shift the focus away from himself. I think even a townie Jingle would be more careful when he suggest a new lynch, as the town's goal is to lynch scum, not just to survive. I went through aRyu's filter once and did not come out with anything else that has not been said about him already. I think his lurkiness is generally anti-town, so I did not put it in my post. @aRyuI went through the filter again and I thought I should share something I found. It is a bit WIFOM: + Show Spoiler +aRyuujin/MrMedic
Suspecting me-Smart I did not yet provide posts Either i'm scum or A really bad Town. Mr Medic comes to mind For these reasons too Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 11:53 MrMedic wrote:
Ok, I am sorry about all these little posts I am doing. I am new to the game and am kinda reluctant to do a big first post but I will try now since everyone is telling me to post something worth while (I agree also).
First, I agree with Darthpunk for a variety of reasons. The largest reason in all of this is that he is constantly saying contradictions with him self. Saying that we should lynch Mr K in his third option and he says this would be great but in the other options while saying this he says we might ruin the town more or it will be bad for the town. But the thing that most strikes me is that he says number 2 is the least probable but he says in his third option that we should lynch him now. But he says at the end we shouldn't lynch him right now. What this really shows is that he is trying to force the option one on too our minds and make us think that he just trying to take one for the team. So in conclusion, he is on top of showing what option he wants us to do. Also, he only shows the options of killing him and as a result would not be a big deal or be a good thing and even though he tress to show the negativity of the situation in actuality he steers you away from it and making it seem like a positive outcome no matter what happens. His first content post he looks he's saying stuff showing fallacies He's bandwagoning and his analysis makes little sense if you understand how mordanis was posting those were 3 what-ifs false contribution and his confusing posts lead me to believe that he's either a bad town, or a mafioso backup vote's on him Here seems like aRyu is kicking MrMedic(Jingle's predecessor) out for sheeping on DP. Ignoring WIFOM, it is unlikely scum aRyu and scum MrMedic (now Jingle) interacts publicly in such a manner in such an early stage. I would say if one of them is scum, the other is kind of cleared. I am not saying both can't be town (or with WIFOM, scum), but it won't make sense if both are town, unless there is some ballsy bussing maneuver going on in day 3. @DarthPunkThe conclusion I made above convinced me DarthPunk is the potential last scum, given that no bussing occurred. I went through his huge filter and was hoping to find one slip that can nail him, and have yet to find anything substantial. His blatant defences on Zorkmid is definitely scum motivated, and I know I also "defended" zorkmid, I hope you all see that I have been consistent with defending people who I thought was being called out for the wrong reasons. I would like to put my vote on VOTE## JingleHell, and FOS## DarthPunk. I believe we got this in the bag  On August 05 2012 18:26 alan133 wrote:@AngeYes, I am leaning towards a scum Jingle for the same reasons. His shift his FOS towards me seems like a desperation move to shift the focus away from himself. I think even a townie Jingle would be more careful when he suggest a new lynch, as the town's goal is to lynch scum, not just to survive. I went through aRyu's filter once and did not come out with anything else that has not been said about him already. I think his lurkiness is generally anti-town, so I did not put it in my post. @aRyuI went through the filter again and I thought I should share something I found. It is a bit WIFOM: + Show Spoiler +aRyuujin/MrMedic
Suspecting me-Smart I did not yet provide posts Either i'm scum or A really bad Town. Mr Medic comes to mind For these reasons too Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 11:53 MrMedic wrote:
Ok, I am sorry about all these little posts I am doing. I am new to the game and am kinda reluctant to do a big first post but I will try now since everyone is telling me to post something worth while (I agree also).
First, I agree with Darthpunk for a variety of reasons. The largest reason in all of this is that he is constantly saying contradictions with him self. Saying that we should lynch Mr K in his third option and he says this would be great but in the other options while saying this he says we might ruin the town more or it will be bad for the town. But the thing that most strikes me is that he says number 2 is the least probable but he says in his third option that we should lynch him now. But he says at the end we shouldn't lynch him right now. What this really shows is that he is trying to force the option one on too our minds and make us think that he just trying to take one for the team. So in conclusion, he is on top of showing what option he wants us to do. Also, he only shows the options of killing him and as a result would not be a big deal or be a good thing and even though he tress to show the negativity of the situation in actuality he steers you away from it and making it seem like a positive outcome no matter what happens. His first content post he looks he's saying stuff showing fallacies He's bandwagoning and his analysis makes little sense if you understand how mordanis was posting those were 3 what-ifs false contribution and his confusing posts lead me to believe that he's either a bad town, or a mafioso backup vote's on him Here seems like aRyu is kicking MrMedic(Jingle's predecessor) out for sheeping on DP. Ignoring WIFOM, it is unlikely scum aRyu and scum MrMedic (now Jingle) interacts publicly in such a manner in such an early stage. I would say if one of them is scum, the other is kind of cleared. I am not saying both can't be town (or with WIFOM, scum), but it won't make sense if both are town, unless there is some ballsy bussing maneuver going on in day 3. @DarthPunkThe conclusion I made above convinced me DarthPunk is the potential last scum, given that no bussing occurred. I went through his huge filter and was hoping to find one slip that can nail him, and have yet to find anything substantial. His blatant defences on Zorkmid is definitely scum motivated, and I know I also "defended" zorkmid, I hope you all see that I have been consistent with defending people who I thought was being called out for the wrong reasons. I would like to put my vote on VOTE## JingleHell, and FOS## DarthPunk. I believe we got this in the bag
I'm in fair agreement with this, although I lean a bit more strongly to aRyuu than Darth. I think that between the three of them here are the two scum.
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Darth, I'm still a little confused by your posting sequence. Are you saying we should lynch Ange over JingleHell? Or that Ange is the 3rd scum?
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@Jingle: Still playing this game?
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On August 06 2012 05:33 Ange777 wrote:
@Jingle: Still playing this game?
I think he ragequit.
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On August 06 2012 05:53 Shady Sands wrote:I think he ragequit.
This is also the impression I got from his last post. Town Jingle never struck me as one to sit back and watch the town burn itself to the ground, so I can only say it's just more evidence against him.
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On August 06 2012 05:59 Obvious.660 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 05:53 Shady Sands wrote:On August 06 2012 05:33 Ange777 wrote:
@Jingle: Still playing this game? I think he ragequit. This is also the impression I got from his last post. Town Jingle never struck me as one to sit back and watch the town burn itself to the ground, so I can only say it's just more evidence against him.
I don't know, I didn't play with him previously.
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I have read through both Alan and Darth's filters again, and here are my general impressions:
Alan:
Nothing that Alan has said feels that scummy to me. He stuck to his read on Mordanis, however incorrect it may have been, and provided what I consider to be a reasonable case for doing so. He hasn't been afraid to give town a few pieces of advice based off his own play in the past. And he has on several occasions weighed in and provided his own perspective on the major lynch candidates of the day. His play feels generally pro-town to me, but I will also say this: he has done a good job of not really standing out with controversial arguements at any point throughout the game. I won't rule out the possibility that he's a scum that's really good at keeping his head low.
Darthpunk:
I originally commented on how his tunneling of Mordanis felt a little suspicious to me. But looking at his play as a whole: I would consider him to be a bit of a "pitbull" - type player. He seems to like to tunnel in on others (most recently, Ange), and keep on attacking them until they are either lynched, NK'ed, or he is generally satisfied. Possibly only until they are lynched or NK'ed... I can't really tell yet. -_-
While I personally don't consider this type of play style to generally be pro-town, he has been fairly consistent in it. And, to be fair, most of the arguements he's presented do feel like they have some validity to them.
Most recently, in the case with Ange, while I also see where Ange is coming from, I will admit that bussing Zork does have its potential benefits for scum. While I also agree that after the first mislynch Ange would come up suspicious, Ange would only need to survive one more mislynch to win the game if he were scum. I will also mention that Ange's case against Zork was only really brought back to life after I pointed out Ange as suspicious for not following through with his Zork vote after a scumslip I had found Day 2.
With all that being said, I have found Ange's play since then to be strongly pro-town. Not to the point of being "confirmed town," but he is nowhere close to on my suspects list right now. I just wanted to say I can at least understand where Darth is coming from.
On the other hand, Darth's aggressive and accusatory tone when I was bringing up that I strongly felt that Mord. was innocent felt out of place. Given the aggressiveness with which he's attacked other players, though, I can still visualize Darth as townie acting as he did out of frustration that the target he felt was scum was getting away.
One final note: Darth's last-minute vote switch seems to be one of the main points people are bringing up in their cases against him. I still believe that it was too soon after Zork's incriminating post to implicate that his post switching to Zork was based on Zork's post. In other words, I still believe he could have switched to secure a voting majority without having seen Zork's post.
So here's the TL;DR on Darthpunk:
While I consider some of his stances suspicious, and his play style to have elements to it that aren't very pro-town, I don't feel that he is the "slam-dunk" third scum that other people are portraying him to be.
As for aRyuujin, expect a follow-up post on him within the next twelve hours. Unfortunately, something else has come up and I won't be able to post some additional impressions on him I had planned to right away.
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EPT
