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@Guy who asked me for games I've played in
I have played in Mr. Wiggles Mini Mafia I (VT), BC's Arkham Asylum (VT) and in TL Mafia XLII (Mafia goon).
After reading this post by Navillus I've grown quite suspicious of him. Let me go through it:
I don't really see the ghost case, it seems to start with artanis pointing out that VE probably doesn't expect to die in the first 72 hours of a given game so ghost's wrong in deciding VE is likely miller because of this. (and just based on how people treated vets in MTG I honestly wouldn't be surprised if VE does expect that, on TL people act like killing enemy vets is more important than the rest of the team combined...) While I don't agree with ghost I also don't see this as particularly scummy. After that a big thing is that he said he would point out some scummy posts of furer and he didn't. This is worse and makes me suspicious but is still something where as town or scum he probably wouldn't say this without actually planning to follow up and he would mean to follow up as both so this isn't a particularly strong indicator of alignment.
All you're saying is that he could be scum, but he could also be town. Notice the back-and-forth: "This makes me suspicious, but I don't think it is it a strong indicator of alignment". It's a very cautiously expressed opinion.
Now looking at the votes on him I get suspicious, VE's vote which is now moved was very fast and didn't go on much, he basically read a couple of posts where artanis points this stuff out and says his meta is different and jumps on. This is suspicious but even more FOS: Mr.Zentor he has a couple posts about VE that don't indicate much then his first post where he says something solid is him jumping on ghost for 1. admitting that he is bad at reading VE which makes no sense and 2. for not following up on furer which I've mentioned. It just looks like Zentor isn't trying to talk about reads or cases, he just wanted to jump in and vote someone people were already suspicious of.
The above part of the post is mostly fine, but what's strange is how fast he moves on to place his vote on Hyaach:
Finally, Hyaach is just ringing all the wrong bells in my head, he has a few posts all talking about VE, they're confusing and most of them are him explaining this post - Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 11:15 Hyaach wrote:
I would let VE live for a day unless something really scummy comes out from his play.
it takes huge balls on claim this early, be it fake/real and its not a fool proof plan imo mafia or town.
Besides, from his claim, i would put all his analysis on a magnifying glass to be dismembered and examined piece by piece. which says nothing, it says that he doesn't want to lynch VE immediately which no one was suggesting then he says that the claim could be fake... or not! and that we should analyze VE, something he himself told us to do. This post isn't in itself that bad but it says nothing strong and he manages to post a fair amount after this without clarifying much or taking any kind of stance, so until a point where he does ##Vote: Hyaach
You base your vote on one post that "isn't bad in itself", him not taking a stance (he is basically saying the same thing about VE that you are saying about ghost; that the action [VE's claim/ghost's promise to find scummy posts] is not very indicative of alignment), and lack of clarification. (Lack of clarification on what? He did try to clarify the post you quoted when questioned by zelblade. Whether or not you find his explanation satisfactory or not is another story.) This just seems like a cheap attempt to throw your vote away.
All you provide is flimsy, abstract reasoning. If he is "ringing all the wrong bells", surely you would be able to better pinpoint exactly what it is about his posting that is so alarming?
Lastly, I'm curious about why you prefer to put your vote on Hyaach until he takes a stance, rather than voting for MrZentor, who you said looked suspicious. Care to enlighten me?
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That's closer to what I've come to expect BH thank you.
Now, did you miss Katina's post that tells a very different tale of Ghost's typical town-play? I'm about to go back and find which is the truth, but I'd like to hear your thoughts on Katina if you please BH.
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I meant to put a horizontal line in between the section about my recent games and the section about Navillus' post. I apologize if it's confusing that I jump so quickly from one subject to another.
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Shraft, you and MrZentor seem to be on the same page where Navillus is concerned. What are your thoughts on MrZentor?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On June 06 2012 07:33 VisceraEyes wrote:
That's closer to what I've come to expect BH thank you.
Now, did you miss Katina's post that tells a very different tale of Ghost's typical town-play? I'm about to go back and find which is the truth, but I'd like to hear your thoughts on Katina if you please BH.
I'd say that Katina's probably town. Katina typically doesn't put any effort into Mafia games as scum LIV But as town, is more aggressive and makes cases like this: (Liar Game Case). Contrast Katina's case in MtG as scum: (link) in which Katina just reiterates other points people have already made, and is slightly wishy-washy about it as well.
The aggressive case against me indicates that this is more of Katina's town meta than scum meta, imo. All this of course pending further posting.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
EBWOP: the link to Katina's LIV filter is broken. working verison: (link)
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Oh shoot Blazinghand is being all helpful and shit and now you all feel dumb for voting him don't you
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I haven't read his filter carefully yet, but I think that BH's case on him is sound. He's a possible scum. If you want a more elaborate opinion from me, I'd have to come back to you after reading his filter.
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EBWOP: Forgot to quote VE's post. The above post is in reponse to this.
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On June 06 2012 07:44 Blazinghand wrote:
Oh shoot Blazinghand is being all helpful and shit and now you all feel dumb for voting him don't you
No, should I feel dumb? You said yourself you weren't hunting scum. :S Your activity now is certainly speaking well of your intentions, but unfortunately your repeated attempts to make me feel bad about it are certainly NOT speaking well of your intentions.
If you're town, keep it up bro.
On June 06 2012 07:44 Shraft wrote:
I haven't read his filter carefully yet, but I think that BH's case on him is sound. He's a possible scum. If you want a more elaborate opinion from me, I'd have to come back to you after reading his filter.
Yeah I'd like that - after all you just said you think he's possible scum and he's aiming for the same guy you are for lynch. It would really be helpful for everyone if you looked into MrZentor fully and answered my question as completely as possible.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
So I guess MrZ just bailed
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##Unvote: Blazinghand
##Vote: MrZentor
Maybe this will resuscitate our dear friend.
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VE, what do you think of Navillus?
See, that's funny, because I think your case against G_403 is scummy. I also think that this sentence you JUST SAID, this one right here, is the same one you call G_403 scummy for using:
Mine is clearly different. He's stating something, then saying that he's unsure of it, which is an attempt to make it look like he's contributing something while allowing himself to easily change his view in the future. Mine is just saying that I have no idea.
What G_403 says here is null. Although there are scum who do this to delay, there are town players who say this before going to bed or whatever. MrZ quotes it like it's some sort of evidence then says "I can't wait" as though that's analysis, but don't be tricked! It's not!
And BH, I was just saying that there was no way ghost was going to be able to make Furer look scummy, and the fact that Ghost finds him suspicious when none of Furer's posts are scummy makes me suspicious of Ghost.
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I actually see what you and Shraft are seeing in that he finds you suspicious, yet votes for Hyaach. There's a pretty obvious disconnect there - like, if he's town and he finds you suspicious, why would he not vote for you? I mean, I stated suspicion of you, it just doesn't make much sense to me to not vote for you in that situation. Perhaps he was just voting to encourage activity? I don't know, but the fact is he thinks you're suspicious but didn't vote for you.
In short, I'm not liking what I'm seeing...but unfortunately there are things I dislike about everyone...so I'm going to go home after work today and draw up a nice little flow-chart and see what's what then.
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@Shraft I really like your case on Navillus. I also noticed the disconnect between his accusation of MrZentor and his actual vote on Hyaach, which I find the most convincing of any case at this point in time. I'm still not happy with Ghost not pointing out what parts of furerkip's posting history he found mafialike though.
##Vote: Navillus
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What about the discrepancy you pointed out earlier - that Ghost "does his homework" as town and hasn't "done his homework" in this game? Do you find that point to be less valid than Shraft's point about Nav's inconsistent opinion/voting?
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On June 06 2012 07:49 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 07:44 Shraft wrote:
I haven't read his filter carefully yet, but I think that BH's case on him is sound. He's a possible scum. If you want a more elaborate opinion from me, I'd have to come back to you after reading his filter. Yeah I'd like that - after all you just said you think he's possible scum and he's aiming for the same guy you are for lynch. It would really be helpful for everyone if you looked into MrZentor fully and answered my question as completely as possible.
After reading through his filter, my verdict is still "possible scum". The first time I read BH's case I missed the difference in MrZ's and ghost's statements. I agree with MrZ in that they are not essentially the same. He (MrZ) openly states that he has a hard time reading BH, while ghost says something and provides some reasoning on why it could be true, just to discredit himself in the next sentence. Like MrZ said, his post looks more like an attempt to contribute without actually saying anything. It is a bit concerning that MrZ votes for ghost without providing much thought, but I find Navillus more suspicious than MrZ at this point in time.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
I'd like to hear what MrZ and Navillus have to say about each other.
Currently their most recent positions are:
On June 06 2012 06:14 MrZentor wrote:
Because Navillus accuses me of doing that, he picks somebody whom nobody has accused, regardless of how suspicious Hyaach actually is. (Hyaach seems to be a lot like furerkip, a bit anti town but not scummy.)
In summary, he votes for somebody who isn't really suspicious, just so he himself doesn't look suspicious.
Guilty much?
Which seems like a pretty aggressive case compared to his relatively mild G_403 case.
And
On June 06 2012 05:51 Navillus wrote:
Now looking at the votes on him I get suspicious, VE's vote which is now moved was very fast and didn't go on much, he basically read a couple of posts where artanis points this stuff out and says his meta is different and jumps on. This is suspicious but even more FOS: Mr.Zentor he has a couple posts about VE that don't indicate much then his first post where he says something solid is him jumping on ghost for 1. admitting that he is bad at reading VE which makes no sense and 2. for not following up on furer which I've mentioned. It just looks like Zentor isn't trying to talk about reads or cases, he just wanted to jump in and vote someone people were already suspicious of
Which seems like a pretty aggressive case compared to his relatively mild Hyaach case.
This looks to me like 2 players who seem interested in making cases at each other without voting each other. Which is scummy. Distancing is a typical scum tactic.
Also: On June 06 2012 06:14 MrZentor wrote:
I voted for ghost, because he's the most suspicious person. Whether or not other people also think he's scummy is irrelevant.
This is so bad I'm not even sure it's scummy. Like, whether or not people think someone is scummy is super relevant. If you think ghost is scum, you should make a really good case and convince everyone he's scummy. You can't lynch him unless other people also think he's scummy. It's like the most relevant thing in the world, and it's kinda the reason you make a case along with your vote.
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It's almost as if MrZ is trying too hard to put on an air of "I don't give a shit if I'm scummy"-townie isn't it?
Ugh...as I said, I'm going to go home and flow-chart this shite and see if anything jumps out at me.
BH can I ask what brought on the change in playstyle? I mean, not that I mind - but I DO kinda miss the fun-loving Paint-slinging BH of old. I understand the bit about you toning down your language, but that doesn't account for the other nuances that made you such a joy to play with...what gives bro?
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On June 06 2012 03:33 VisceraEyes wrote:
Yeah okay, that's fair I think. I haven't read the analysis in question or anything, but if what you're saying is true then I'm down with a ghost lynch.
##Vote: ghost_403
I think I should point out however that he could just be lazy townie in this instance, but based on what we've pointed out here I think he's got a good enough chance of flipping scum to lynch. Who else is down with a ghost lynch?
PEdit: Welcome Katina! I'm not scum, don't be silly! Could you expand on why playing "normally" is a scumtell please?
On June 06 2012 04:17 VisceraEyes wrote:
Yeah, I'm sold. Like, his style isn't generally regarded as good for town, so I could understand if he were trying to switch it up or something, but he's not trying to find scum either so I can't accept that as a response even if he says that's the case. We're halfway through D1 so people should have some pretty firm opinions about someone...BH hasn't displayed any opinions of anyone.
##Unvote: ghost_403
##Vote: Blazinghand
On June 06 2012 08:13 VisceraEyes wrote:
##Unvote: Blazinghand
##Vote: MrZentor
Maybe this will resuscitate our dear friend.
O.o my goodness VE. You bounce around more than a little kid that is about to go to Disneyland.
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EPT
