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On June 20 2012 09:50 Shraft wrote:
GG everyone, and thanks WBG and HiroPro for hosting and co-hosting. Sad that the game was decided by Palmar being mod killed.
I know from before that my scum hunting skills aren't very good, so this game I tried to focus more on looking town and reading other people's thoughts and researching their scum suspects. I'd appreciate pointers on my play, especially advice on how I can improve my scum hunting.
You did quite well with scumhunting this game and if you read the scum QT we were even considering shooting you N1. Your read was dead on with the cognitive dissonance between Navillus' vote and his calling out of MrZentor - that was a really big mistake on his part... My biggest piece of advice would be to push those reads more, especially if you've got a pretty good thing going like on Nav. In fact, at one point I was asking Nav questions town should have been asking him. Like right here:
On June 06 2012 11:47 Snarfs wrote:
RE: Navillus: [...] Also, he both claims that pressure voting is ineffective when the person knows it's just a pressure vote AND he leaves his vote on hyaa as a pressure vote. Care to explain this contradiction?
On June 06 2012 11:56 Navillus wrote:
@Snarfs I think I wasn't clear on this, I will push for a Hyaach lynch if he continues to lurk or make posts that don't give real opinions after being called out specifically for that because that is scummy. Also on my posting style longer posts like what I've been writing are just the type of posts I make, I'd prefer to say too much and have someone like you be suspicious than say too little and miss something important, you can also check my meta, it's how I usually post.
At this point, I would expect a town player to say something along the lines of: "Yea, I see there's other things going on in the thread so maybe I'll rethink my vote". Instead he continues to leave his vote on Hyaach.
I was scared of following up this post because Nav still hadn't switched his vote. He was basically implying that over 30 hours into day 1 (or whatever it is), after the Pandain shenanigans and calling out blazinghand and everything else that happened, he was still convinced that Hyaach was the best vote.
So yea, when you get a strong scum read on someone, don't be afraid to push them to explain further contradictions.
As far as looking townie, hard for me to answer that one, but you didn't seem to be drawing much suspicion from anyone else until right near the end when everyone's under suspicion so I'd say you did pretty well there.
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The OP and revealed roles have been updated. If anyone has further questions or wants thoughts on the game or whatever, let me know: I'm going to be drafting more of my thoughts so that the mafia library has something on the game later as I get time this week.
Stay tuned to the this thread and/or the TL Mafia Library thread for updates! Meanwhile I'm hosting a new normal mini game as there is a distinct lack of them around.
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I should have focus on BH and the SK possibility more. I'll keep this in mind. and also to play more active on starts(but that's never me. lol)
Thanks for hosting WBG.
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Thanks for hosting wbg and hiro.
Sorry for my play, need to take a break from mafia =/
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GG sorry for lurking so much and particularly sorry Snarfs, I lost that for you, you deserve a win here. I might follow ZBlade and not join more games unless I'm sure I have time, though I actually might get a lot of time now, I'll see. I'd be happy to see any analysis or advice anyone can give.
Thanks WBG and Hiro, I really like this type of game and if I have time to play I'd love to do another normal mini.
Edit: and WBG I agree that there is a lack of normal minis and I think it would be great if people could continue to host them somewhat regularly
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
Katina told me to post this since she is lazy. I haven't been following this closely so I don't know if it's been discussed already. This is about her actions this game as the town roleblocker.
As evident from her filter, day 1 her two suspects were VisceraEyes and blazinghand. Even though she posted the case against VE night 1, at the end of the night she felt that blazinghand was more likely mafia than VE. Thus night 1 she roleblocked blazinghand. blazinghand was not lying about being roleblocked.
When day 2 started, blazinghand had already claimed to have shot furer. As there were no night kills, it was incredibly obvious what probably happened: mafia had blazinghand send in the shot, and it got roleblocked, hence no night kills. Katina then proceeded to push blazinghand.
When Hyaach claimed to be roleblocked and the jailkeeper, the scenario did not change. In fact, after Hyaach claimed, it was even more plausible that blazinghand was mafia. This was because she believed Hyaach was telling the truth. What did that mean? The jailkeeper's action did not go through; it was unlikely he was mafia and lying about being jailkeeper, if he was mafia AND jailkeeper then it makes no sense to have him send in the hit and jailkeep someone (as that's two mafia actions that could potentially be prevented at once). With Hyaach unlikely to be mafia, and another roleblock and jailkeep out of the scenario, any explanation other than "blazinghand sent in the mafia hit" seemed so far-fetched as it would have required another town roleblocker or jailkeeper running around. In a small game such as this it did not seem likely.
Of course that wasn't quite what happened, but it was the most logical. I am surprised that everyone called for the town roleblocker to claim the day blazinghand was lynched. I think this is a good lesson in trying to analyze a situation from other perspectives (stepping into someone else's shoes so to say). While it may have made sense without the information, try to think of it from the roleblocker's perspective: you are town roleblocker, you suspect blazinghand of being mafia and roleblock him night 1. No night kills occur. What is the most likely scenario? blazinghand is mafia and you blocked his shot (read above). This is more evident since Hyaach already flipped jailkeeper as well. Now, why would blazinghand ask for you to claim? What is the motivation for him doing that? From your perspective, he just wants you to claim so his team can immediately shoot you (and it will probably go through since a jailkeeper is already dead).
So when everyone called for the town roleblocker to claim, Katina's reaction through the whole thing was essentially, "lol cool story bro!" The most plausible explanation was that blazinghand was mafia and she blocked the mafia hit. She had absolutely zero reason to claim to the town, especially after Hyaach died.
And that should her explain her actions and why she was so "blazinghand for sure mafia" in all of her posts. I don't know if the mafia realized she was the roleblocker or not or why they killed her. But I thought the whole situation was very very interesting, and I think there's some good ideas and lessons to be learned from it.
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Foolish to the rescue!!
Yes, her thought-process was pretty clear when she flipped bro. LOL
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I thought BH was lying about being roleblocked, because I didn't think there would be four roleblocking roles in such a small game. <.<
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
On June 21 2012 11:49 Foolishness wrote:
So when everyone called for the town roleblocker to claim, Katina's reaction through the whole thing was essentially, "lol cool story bro!" The most plausible explanation was that blazinghand was mafia and she blocked the mafia hit. She had absolutely zero reason to claim to the town, especially after Hyaach died.
Just to clarify, at the time I was calling for the town RB to claim, I was saying to do so only if the town RB had RBed Hyaach (meaning that mafia RBed me), since that would exonerate me. I was very, very sure that scum had stacked their RB on me, their NK, to hide it. It turns out they RBed Hyaach and shot me, and I was also RBed by the town RB, but this seemed pretty unlikely to me.
Given that Katina had RBed me, she obviously should not have claimed-- but I never called for the RBer who RBed me to claim.
On June 21 2012 11:49 Foolishness wrote:
And that should her explain her actions and why she was so "blazinghand for sure mafia" in all of her posts. I don't know if the mafia realized she was the roleblocker or not or why they killed her. But I thought the whole situation was very very interesting, and I think there's some good ideas and lessons to be learned from it.
Yeah this was definitely good play. I think she did a good job of staying alive and making sure I got lynched.
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As I said in the scum QT, so many people were calling for the town RB to claim, it left very few possible candidates left and it should have been quite obvious at that point Katina was the town RB. Everyone else pretty much outed her but I didn't really put that together until after we killed her.
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Any more analysis coming up? Would be interested in it.
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EPT
