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Mmhh this whole discussion is hurrrting espurrts I think.
And Sawa please shut up.
On June 05 2012 18:34 MateShade wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 17:34 Sawamura wrote:On June 05 2012 17:33 Chilling5pr33 wrote:On June 05 2012 17:30 Sawamura wrote:On June 05 2012 17:29 Chilling5pr33 wrote:On June 05 2012 17:25 Sawamura wrote:On June 05 2012 17:23 Chilling5pr33 wrote:On June 05 2012 17:20 Sawamura wrote:On June 05 2012 17:18 Chilling5pr33 wrote:On June 05 2012 17:18 Sawamura wrote:
[quote]
What has sc2 got to do with e-sports ? Do you want to discuss this here? Always nice to argue with one liners  You can't represent sc2 as the only thing that has got to do with e-sports what about bw,Halo,LoL and Dota 2 ? Not qualified to be e-sport materials ? Well hacking in generall is a problem in all e-sports i guess but since this page is mostly about SC2 i dont discuss the other games here... really i have no clue what you wanna argue about. Point is you trying to argue that your scene is equivalent to the whole e-sport scene . What happens in sc2 scene stays in sc2 don't try to generalize sc2 as the whole e-sport. Hacking in sc2 will not kill esport(sc2). Exhibit 1
The ESPORTscene overall will get suspicious for sponsors and they might refuce to invest into it.
Oh dear well i could change all my ESPORTS to SC2 but it also applys to all other games so what is your point? Can you please stop argue about such minor things? Hacking in broodwar did not kill broodwar, Hacking in Cs 1.6 and source did not kill both the scene what makes you think some guy hacking on sc2 will kill your precious scene ? Seems like you are upset with my post im sorry to upset you man. Cheating in online tournaments was a issue in CS it was a issue in BW and it will stay a issue in all games played for money. That's nonsense if anything if some one hacks on a non-online tournament the organizers are to be blame each pc are supposed to be clean from any hacking software . They should be rules banning players from installing any software in to the pc's before each game. Are you mad because whatever game you play isn't as awesome as sc2? Why are you so padantic? Jesus dude
o_O
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1/5 for atrocious thread title.
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I'm pretty sure that those on the outside of e-sports right now could care less about stuff like this. If they've already heard about eSports and haven't dived in, this doesn't matter. If they haven't heard about eSports yet, I doubt that they'd delve deep enough into it to even find out that some low-tier pro hacked.
A match fixing scandal, a la Ma Jae Yoon might have a negative effect on the eSports nubs views though. We haven't had one yet in SC2.
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Sponsors look for tournament wins more than anything. And the ablilty to be marketed as a player...
Maphackers wont get far in tournament play at all!
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No offense but when i read this :
On June 05 2012 16:06 Chilling5pr33 wrote:
The People who are wrongly accused will have a hard time to prove themselve innocent and the reputation will be damaged no matter if they are innocent.
All i want to say is this :
Is having a justice system hurting life ? Because innocents might be found guilty...
I feel like the problem is the overall attitude of the community ( witch hunting runs rampant, people are hypocrites ), not the fact that some guy reveals he thinks some other guy is cheating. The "spades cheating ?" thread shows this perfectly : waaaay too many people jump to conclusions and omit the fact that the op has 1 fucking post. Too many people give their opinions without having any analytical skills, just because they feel like talking. Too few people pay attention to the posts that matter ( Pros, ex pros etc, a mod had to highlight it for people to see it ). If the community was more reasonable, there would be no problem, a majority of the posts in the thread would be that of pros, not random people telling random crap ( the thread would probably be less than fifty pages long too ^^ ) and the OP would probably get a warning of some sort.
So no, in my opinion, " the discussion about maphacking does not hurt sc2 ", it's the attitude of the community that does. And it does it greatly
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On June 05 2012 17:30 Sawamura wrote:
Hacking in broodwar did not kill broodwar, Hacking in Cs 1.6 and source did not kill both the scene what makes you think some guy hacking on sc2 will kill your precious scene ?
The key difference is that this isn't broodwar anymore. This isn't CS1.6 anymore.
We strive to grow as a legitimate sport so to speak but when we ignore the cheating in games then it'll never happen.
Stop being narrow minded and think outside the box.
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United States9941 Posts
Its not hurting "esports". It's not hurting the pro-scene one bit, and thats what most people here really care about. I mean its bad that people are accusing others of hacking, but in the end, will people like MVP, Boxer, Stephano really read that stuff? No. It doesn't matter only unless we make it matter and over react to something miniscule compared to the size of the "real" scene.
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United States9941 Posts
On June 05 2012 19:30 MateShade wrote:
Well done for ruining this mans blog. Repost op?
What the heck are you talking about? He didn't ruin it. He simply stated his opinion, and when it was challenged, he defended it. Just because you don't agree with someone in an argument doesn't mean he ruined it -.-
EDIT: Soz for double-post. On an ipod so too lazy to combine the two posts.
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On June 06 2012 00:38 Marti wrote:No offense but when i read this : Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 16:06 Chilling5pr33 wrote:
The People who are wrongly accused will have a hard time to prove themselve innocent and the reputation will be damaged no matter if they are innocent.
All i want to say is this : Is having a justice system hurting life ? Because innocents might be found guilty... I feel like the problem is the overall attitude of the community ( witch hunting runs rampant, people are hypocrites ), not the fact that some guy reveals he thinks some other guy is cheating. The "spades cheating ?" thread shows this perfectly : waaaay too many people jump to conclusions and omit the fact that the op has 1 fucking post. Too many people give their opinions without having any analytical skills, just because they feel like talking. Too few people pay attention to the posts that matter ( Pros, ex pros etc, a mod had to highlight it for people to see it ). If the community was more reasonable, there would be no problem, a majority of the posts in the thread would be that of pros, not random people telling random crap ( the thread would probably be less than fifty pages long too ^^ ) and the OP would probably get a warning of some sort. So no, in my opinion, " the discussion about maphacking does not hurt sc2 ", it's the attitude of the community that does. And it does it greatly
I dont feel this is an offense at all thanks for posting.
A justice system is one thing, but a witch hunt another.
We have a justice system in the moment - provided by blizzard.
But since they arent able to enforce it properly the community starts hunting for "criminals" by themselve.
I mean hell before this discussion i thought it might be a few players who actually hack and that blizzard does a decent job preventing it.
But now it turns out that its pretty hard to
A) Prove someone guilty.
B) Take appropiade actions against it.
C) Prevent hacking on the long run.
If those facts are common knowlege we will be in the need of a better solution than the given ones.
Actually the awarenes of hacks is the first step to a brighter nearly or total hack free future.
And i wanted to go a step in this direction by opening this thread.
Anyone who feels i have done a poor job opening this is probably right but i felt the need to distand the discussion from one case and put it on a more general level, still this Blog isnt the best i have to admit, and i would be glad if it would be closed just becouse it might be off-topic or just plain needless.
Lets hope for the best and that either the community or Blizzard finds a good solution to this.
I love competitive gaming i like to watch it and to play on my low level for fun, i have never seen the need to improve anything, till now.
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On June 06 2012 01:02 Aelonius wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 17:30 Sawamura wrote:
Hacking in broodwar did not kill broodwar, Hacking in Cs 1.6 and source did not kill both the scene what makes you think some guy hacking on sc2 will kill your precious scene ? The key difference is that this isn't broodwar anymore. This isn't CS1.6 anymore. We strive to grow as a legitimate sport so to speak but when we ignore the cheating in games then it'll never happen. Stop being narrow minded and think outside the box.
Legitimate e-sport ? or legitimate competitive scene for sc2 ? Stop representing e-sport as sc2.
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On June 06 2012 01:52 Sawamura wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 01:02 Aelonius wrote:On June 05 2012 17:30 Sawamura wrote:
Hacking in broodwar did not kill broodwar, Hacking in Cs 1.6 and source did not kill both the scene what makes you think some guy hacking on sc2 will kill your precious scene ? The key difference is that this isn't broodwar anymore. This isn't CS1.6 anymore. We strive to grow as a legitimate sport so to speak but when we ignore the cheating in games then it'll never happen. Stop being narrow minded and think outside the box. Legitimate e-sport ? or legitimate competitive scene for sc2 ? Stop representing e-sport as sc2.
ALSO THIS +10000
What's with people throwing the word " esport " all over the place ? SC2 is not an "esports" it is bound to be replaced as soon as Kotick feels he can make more money off of a new title, it will never be an esport, esport was quake, cs 1.6 and bw, but we killed it. ( Not saying that those things are " dead ", there may not be a quakecon in 2012 but CS 1.6 is still very strong , the point is we killed the idea of esport by letting activ - blizz do whatever it wants with SC, and esport will never exist because of that, the companies just treat it as a way to market their product / make money off of tournaments )
"Competitive SC2 does exist tho"
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On June 06 2012 01:49 Chilling5pr33 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 00:38 Marti wrote:No offense but when i read this : On June 05 2012 16:06 Chilling5pr33 wrote:
The People who are wrongly accused will have a hard time to prove themselve innocent and the reputation will be damaged no matter if they are innocent.
All i want to say is this : Is having a justice system hurting life ? Because innocents might be found guilty... I feel like the problem is the overall attitude of the community ( witch hunting runs rampant, people are hypocrites ), not the fact that some guy reveals he thinks some other guy is cheating. The "spades cheating ?" thread shows this perfectly : waaaay too many people jump to conclusions and omit the fact that the op has 1 fucking post. Too many people give their opinions without having any analytical skills, just because they feel like talking. Too few people pay attention to the posts that matter ( Pros, ex pros etc, a mod had to highlight it for people to see it ). If the community was more reasonable, there would be no problem, a majority of the posts in the thread would be that of pros, not random people telling random crap ( the thread would probably be less than fifty pages long too ^^ ) and the OP would probably get a warning of some sort. So no, in my opinion, " the discussion about maphacking does not hurt sc2 ", it's the attitude of the community that does. And it does it greatly I dont feel this is an offense at all thanks for posting. A justice system is one thing, but a witch hunt another. We have a justice system in the moment - provided by blizzard. But since they arent able to enforce it properly the community starts hunting for "criminals" by themselve. I mean hell before this discussion i thought it might be a few players who actually hack and that blizzard does a decent job preventing it. But now it turns out that its pretty hard to A) Prove someone guilty. B) Take appropiade actions against it. C) Prevent hacking on the long run. If those facts are common knowlege we will be in the need of a better solution than the given ones. Actually the awarenes of hacks is the first step to a brighter nearly or total hack free future. And i wanted to go a step in this direction by opening this thread. Anyone who feels i have done a poor job opening this is probably right but i felt the need to distand the discussion from one case and put it on a more general level, still this Blog isnt the best i have to admit, and i would be glad if it would be closed just becouse it might be off-topic or just plain needless. Lets hope for the best and that either the community or Blizzard finds a good solution to this. I love competitive gaming i like to watch it and to play on my low level for fun, i have never seen the need to improve anything, till now.
Well the thing is, in BW, and CS 1.6, the community has its own anti hack detectors because the companies don't care enough. You have the iccup launcher & anticheat, we have wlauncher / minilauncher, there is still ESLWIRE, i think ESEA had its own etc etc etc ...
But the community aspect ... I don't know man, the SC2 community feels like a bunch of hypocrites to me. Justice is activ - blizz, i doubt anyone will make an eifficient anti cheat because, idk, the atmosphere, everything ... Something has changed, we let companies take control of everything and now we have to rely on them, which, my experience says its bad. A company's goal is to make money, the players have a differnet agenda, they want to enjoy the game they paid for, so i always trust the community more as far as anticheat goes, but we shouldn't publicly crucify people just because one guy says this one player is suspicious, we should crucify them once there is a proof ( be it from ESLWIRE or any other anticheat program ), not based upon some guy's saying. Tho it will always be impossible to monitor the ladder because there is only one ladder, activ - blizzard's and so there's only them to punish cheaters, there won't be any fish / iccup and their respective anticheat ....
If anyone, we should crucify Activ - blizz , or ourselves for letting this happen.
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The problem with every single discussion surrounding "ESPORTS" is that the conduct of gamers won't attract sponsors. Turning StarCraft into some big corporate thing is actually the opposite of what you want.
OF COURSE hackers should be slain on sight, and their souls sent to the 8th circle of Hell.
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IS TESTING FOR STEROIDS HURTING SPORTS?
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On June 07 2012 09:17 Itsmedudeman wrote:
IS TESTING FOR STEROIDS HURTING SPORTS?
best response in the thread
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On June 07 2012 09:17 Itsmedudeman wrote:
IS TESTING FOR STEROIDS HURTING SPORTS?
Read the Topic carefully dude man..
I dont ask if the search for Maphacks is hurting it.
I am questioning if the discussion about unproven cases hurting it...
And if the discussion about it in public is neccesary.
And really CAPSLOCK is not allowed here read the rules 
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EPT
