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On May 03 2012 05:27 blahblahblahwhatever wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 05:15 Klonere wrote:On May 03 2012 04:52 tedster wrote:On May 02 2012 23:57 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 02 2012 23:44 maybenexttime wrote:On May 02 2012 23:04 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 02 2012 22:55 GeLaar wrote:
I can't believe Blizzard pulled this off. I can't believe the Korean e-sports organisations let themselves get into a situation where Blizzard has them by the balls.
OGN and Kespa are taking some pretty big risks:
1. They might alienate their Korean fans - there is only one game that every Korean grew up knowing, and they're turing their backs on it and saying "Hey, let's have millions of people switch to this other game!". I'm curious to see if this will work, and if it does, how many times it will work (because they will have to do it again for the two "expansions", and for SC3, and so on.)
2. Since SC2 doesn't have LAN, these organisations are now completely at Blizzard's mercy. Blizzard now has the power to pull the plug on Proleague or any other event, without having to go to the Korean courts. With Brood War, the situation was different. After Blizzard backed out of the lawsuit, it was theirs to do whatever they wanted with it. That's a pretty big thing they gave away. I hope for their sake that the relationship doesn't sour, and that Blizzard doesn't decide to change the deal.
Overall, it's clear to me why Kespa and OGN did it. It's right there in the statement: international exposure. They are likely to get it, but the risks they are taking seem immense to me. It is a huge change, and if handled correctly and professionally it will be a huge step forward. I understand your concerns completely, I can see how if it was to go sour it would destroy an entire industry that's been over 10 years in the making. One thing that's clear for me is that if there are disputes amongst the united organisations it would no doubt be fixed without any underlying injustice. All of these organisations care about esports and, being a business, also care about money and the industry. I'm sure that Blizzard (as well as the other parties involved) won't impose such a dictatorial attitude due to the fact that success for ALL of the organisations means success for each of them, if they hurt their partners then in turn they hurt themselves. No, blizzard does not care about esport. Otherwise they wouldn't have tried to kill BW so badly. So far they have shown they're too incompetent to fix sc2, so I hope what they did will bite them in the ass. They're becoming the new EA, screw them... That's an interesting opinion. It has left me wondering, If they didn't care about esports why would they take part in this union? Surely if esports promotes their game, then esports is something worth investing time and resources into since it makes them more money, right? So that means they must care about esports because of their investments. They are trying to sell a new game. They don't really care about games they aren't making money from any more and aren't really concerned with the overall health and quality of esports, just New Blizzard Products. Blizzard realize that they failed miserable in the Korean launch of Starcraft II (along with squandering links to the most incredible esports scene ever) and are looking at LoL making WoW type cash. They want a piece of the Korean pie and this is how they are doing it, putting SC2 on the front and center of the biggest gaming broadcaster in SK, mainly via legal muscle rather than any concern about ESPORTS/. Can we start some kind of online petition??
Online petitions involving the least important, least numerous component of the BW community, sounds like a fantastic idea! No this isn't going to be changed by anything, my BW heart is cold and dead since Kpop killed MBC. Blizzard can do what they like with SC2, I am beginning to get to the point where I truly think its going to be a dead game in a years time.
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On May 03 2012 05:18 blahblahblahwhatever wrote:
This is no surprise from Blizzard. But the korean officials agreeing to this unanimously...ugh kill me. The only hope now is the players and the fans rally and get some sort of petition going to at least keep BW separated from SC2. Also, an online petition should be created on the BW forum so foreigners can contribute.
I don't even care about my entertaintment. I feel so sorry for the players, they don't deserve this bullshit. Why don't Blizzard and the korean officials just barge into their practice houses and take a humongous liquid shit on the players' faces? It would be less disrespectful than this garbage.
I know your feeling man, I hope pros are willing to switch over to hots when it comes out.
Especially when hots comes out, expect BW to be dead in one to two years.
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On May 03 2012 05:30 Klonere wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 05:27 blahblahblahwhatever wrote:On May 03 2012 05:15 Klonere wrote:On May 03 2012 04:52 tedster wrote:On May 02 2012 23:57 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 02 2012 23:44 maybenexttime wrote:On May 02 2012 23:04 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 02 2012 22:55 GeLaar wrote:
I can't believe Blizzard pulled this off. I can't believe the Korean e-sports organisations let themselves get into a situation where Blizzard has them by the balls.
OGN and Kespa are taking some pretty big risks:
1. They might alienate their Korean fans - there is only one game that every Korean grew up knowing, and they're turing their backs on it and saying "Hey, let's have millions of people switch to this other game!". I'm curious to see if this will work, and if it does, how many times it will work (because they will have to do it again for the two "expansions", and for SC3, and so on.)
2. Since SC2 doesn't have LAN, these organisations are now completely at Blizzard's mercy. Blizzard now has the power to pull the plug on Proleague or any other event, without having to go to the Korean courts. With Brood War, the situation was different. After Blizzard backed out of the lawsuit, it was theirs to do whatever they wanted with it. That's a pretty big thing they gave away. I hope for their sake that the relationship doesn't sour, and that Blizzard doesn't decide to change the deal.
Overall, it's clear to me why Kespa and OGN did it. It's right there in the statement: international exposure. They are likely to get it, but the risks they are taking seem immense to me. It is a huge change, and if handled correctly and professionally it will be a huge step forward. I understand your concerns completely, I can see how if it was to go sour it would destroy an entire industry that's been over 10 years in the making. One thing that's clear for me is that if there are disputes amongst the united organisations it would no doubt be fixed without any underlying injustice. All of these organisations care about esports and, being a business, also care about money and the industry. I'm sure that Blizzard (as well as the other parties involved) won't impose such a dictatorial attitude due to the fact that success for ALL of the organisations means success for each of them, if they hurt their partners then in turn they hurt themselves. No, blizzard does not care about esport. Otherwise they wouldn't have tried to kill BW so badly. So far they have shown they're too incompetent to fix sc2, so I hope what they did will bite them in the ass. They're becoming the new EA, screw them... That's an interesting opinion. It has left me wondering, If they didn't care about esports why would they take part in this union? Surely if esports promotes their game, then esports is something worth investing time and resources into since it makes them more money, right? So that means they must care about esports because of their investments. They are trying to sell a new game. They don't really care about games they aren't making money from any more and aren't really concerned with the overall health and quality of esports, just New Blizzard Products. Blizzard realize that they failed miserable in the Korean launch of Starcraft II (along with squandering links to the most incredible esports scene ever) and are looking at LoL making WoW type cash. They want a piece of the Korean pie and this is how they are doing it, putting SC2 on the front and center of the biggest gaming broadcaster in SK, mainly via legal muscle rather than any concern about ESPORTS/. Can we start some kind of online petition?? Online petitions involving the least important, least numerous component of the BW community, sounds like a fantastic idea! No this isn't going to be changed by anything, my BW heart is cold and dead since Kpop killed MBC. Blizzard can do what they like with SC2, I am beginning to get to the point where I truly think its going to be a dead game in a years time.
Like BW? Trust me, sc2 will last generations longer than BW.
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On May 03 2012 05:43 Bareleon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 05:30 Klonere wrote:On May 03 2012 05:27 blahblahblahwhatever wrote:On May 03 2012 05:15 Klonere wrote:On May 03 2012 04:52 tedster wrote:On May 02 2012 23:57 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 02 2012 23:44 maybenexttime wrote:On May 02 2012 23:04 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 02 2012 22:55 GeLaar wrote:
I can't believe Blizzard pulled this off. I can't believe the Korean e-sports organisations let themselves get into a situation where Blizzard has them by the balls.
OGN and Kespa are taking some pretty big risks:
1. They might alienate their Korean fans - there is only one game that every Korean grew up knowing, and they're turing their backs on it and saying "Hey, let's have millions of people switch to this other game!". I'm curious to see if this will work, and if it does, how many times it will work (because they will have to do it again for the two "expansions", and for SC3, and so on.)
2. Since SC2 doesn't have LAN, these organisations are now completely at Blizzard's mercy. Blizzard now has the power to pull the plug on Proleague or any other event, without having to go to the Korean courts. With Brood War, the situation was different. After Blizzard backed out of the lawsuit, it was theirs to do whatever they wanted with it. That's a pretty big thing they gave away. I hope for their sake that the relationship doesn't sour, and that Blizzard doesn't decide to change the deal.
Overall, it's clear to me why Kespa and OGN did it. It's right there in the statement: international exposure. They are likely to get it, but the risks they are taking seem immense to me. It is a huge change, and if handled correctly and professionally it will be a huge step forward. I understand your concerns completely, I can see how if it was to go sour it would destroy an entire industry that's been over 10 years in the making. One thing that's clear for me is that if there are disputes amongst the united organisations it would no doubt be fixed without any underlying injustice. All of these organisations care about esports and, being a business, also care about money and the industry. I'm sure that Blizzard (as well as the other parties involved) won't impose such a dictatorial attitude due to the fact that success for ALL of the organisations means success for each of them, if they hurt their partners then in turn they hurt themselves. No, blizzard does not care about esport. Otherwise they wouldn't have tried to kill BW so badly. So far they have shown they're too incompetent to fix sc2, so I hope what they did will bite them in the ass. They're becoming the new EA, screw them... That's an interesting opinion. It has left me wondering, If they didn't care about esports why would they take part in this union? Surely if esports promotes their game, then esports is something worth investing time and resources into since it makes them more money, right? So that means they must care about esports because of their investments. They are trying to sell a new game. They don't really care about games they aren't making money from any more and aren't really concerned with the overall health and quality of esports, just New Blizzard Products. Blizzard realize that they failed miserable in the Korean launch of Starcraft II (along with squandering links to the most incredible esports scene ever) and are looking at LoL making WoW type cash. They want a piece of the Korean pie and this is how they are doing it, putting SC2 on the front and center of the biggest gaming broadcaster in SK, mainly via legal muscle rather than any concern about ESPORTS/. Can we start some kind of online petition?? Online petitions involving the least important, least numerous component of the BW community, sounds like a fantastic idea! No this isn't going to be changed by anything, my BW heart is cold and dead since Kpop killed MBC. Blizzard can do what they like with SC2, I am beginning to get to the point where I truly think its going to be a dead game in a years time. Like BW? Trust me, sc2 will last generations longer than BW.
You'll need to be here for longer than 5 minutes for me to trust your opinion
If SC2 is even remembered, much less played competitively, in 10 years consider yourself fortunate. Maybe SC3 will be released by then and you can hear the same cries from 12-year-old gamers who have never been a part of e-sports, never played an RTS come and shit on your game, calling it old, outdated, ugly and everything the SC2 community brandishes BW to be.
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On May 02 2012 10:00 Isengrim wrote:
The future of SC2 could very well be determined in the next few hours.
really? I'm pretty sure the professional scene has grown just fine without SC2 recognized as an official game...I could care less what they decide...and GOMTV has done just fine as well... honestly it sounds like things are becoming more global and open and Kespa has lost a lot of power...
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Vatican City State582 Posts
FLASH FLASH FLASH FLASH!!
the new chapter of Terran Domination!!
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On May 03 2012 05:18 blahblahblahwhatever wrote:
This is no surprise from Blizzard. But the korean officials agreeing to this unanimously...ugh kill me. The only hope now is the players and the fans rally and get some sort of petition going to at least keep BW separated from SC2. Also, an online petition should be created on the BW forum so foreigners can contribute.
I don't even care about my entertaintment. I feel so sorry for the players, they don't deserve this bullshit. Why don't Blizzard and the korean officials just barge into their practice houses and take a humongous liquid shit on the players' faces? It would be less disrespectful than this garbage.
Survival of the fittest. Adapt or die.
This is capitalism.
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On May 03 2012 05:43 Bareleon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 05:30 Klonere wrote:On May 03 2012 05:27 blahblahblahwhatever wrote:On May 03 2012 05:15 Klonere wrote:On May 03 2012 04:52 tedster wrote:On May 02 2012 23:57 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 02 2012 23:44 maybenexttime wrote:On May 02 2012 23:04 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 02 2012 22:55 GeLaar wrote:
I can't believe Blizzard pulled this off. I can't believe the Korean e-sports organisations let themselves get into a situation where Blizzard has them by the balls.
OGN and Kespa are taking some pretty big risks:
1. They might alienate their Korean fans - there is only one game that every Korean grew up knowing, and they're turing their backs on it and saying "Hey, let's have millions of people switch to this other game!". I'm curious to see if this will work, and if it does, how many times it will work (because they will have to do it again for the two "expansions", and for SC3, and so on.)
2. Since SC2 doesn't have LAN, these organisations are now completely at Blizzard's mercy. Blizzard now has the power to pull the plug on Proleague or any other event, without having to go to the Korean courts. With Brood War, the situation was different. After Blizzard backed out of the lawsuit, it was theirs to do whatever they wanted with it. That's a pretty big thing they gave away. I hope for their sake that the relationship doesn't sour, and that Blizzard doesn't decide to change the deal.
Overall, it's clear to me why Kespa and OGN did it. It's right there in the statement: international exposure. They are likely to get it, but the risks they are taking seem immense to me. It is a huge change, and if handled correctly and professionally it will be a huge step forward. I understand your concerns completely, I can see how if it was to go sour it would destroy an entire industry that's been over 10 years in the making. One thing that's clear for me is that if there are disputes amongst the united organisations it would no doubt be fixed without any underlying injustice. All of these organisations care about esports and, being a business, also care about money and the industry. I'm sure that Blizzard (as well as the other parties involved) won't impose such a dictatorial attitude due to the fact that success for ALL of the organisations means success for each of them, if they hurt their partners then in turn they hurt themselves. No, blizzard does not care about esport. Otherwise they wouldn't have tried to kill BW so badly. So far they have shown they're too incompetent to fix sc2, so I hope what they did will bite them in the ass. They're becoming the new EA, screw them... That's an interesting opinion. It has left me wondering, If they didn't care about esports why would they take part in this union? Surely if esports promotes their game, then esports is something worth investing time and resources into since it makes them more money, right? So that means they must care about esports because of their investments. They are trying to sell a new game. They don't really care about games they aren't making money from any more and aren't really concerned with the overall health and quality of esports, just New Blizzard Products. Blizzard realize that they failed miserable in the Korean launch of Starcraft II (along with squandering links to the most incredible esports scene ever) and are looking at LoL making WoW type cash. They want a piece of the Korean pie and this is how they are doing it, putting SC2 on the front and center of the biggest gaming broadcaster in SK, mainly via legal muscle rather than any concern about ESPORTS/. Can we start some kind of online petition?? Online petitions involving the least important, least numerous component of the BW community, sounds like a fantastic idea! No this isn't going to be changed by anything, my BW heart is cold and dead since Kpop killed MBC. Blizzard can do what they like with SC2, I am beginning to get to the point where I truly think its going to be a dead game in a years time. Like BW? Trust me, sc2 will last generations longer than BW.
Not a chance. SC2 will last only as long as it meets the revenue expectations of some suits at Activision/Blizzard. Once SC2 no longer meets these expectations and Blizzard releases the next RTs the want to market, they can force moving to the new game by shitting down SC2.
It's a kill switch, and it's the worst possible thing to happen to eSports as a competition.
BW lasted this long based on its merit as a competitive game precisely because it didn't have a kill switch. This was the beauty of the KeSPA model, compared to the Blizzard model, which creates a conflict between maximizing revenue and choosing the better game for competition.
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Lol this turned into BW vs. SC2.
But no worries my SC2 brethren, we shall prevail!! The better game. SC2 shall win!!!
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On May 03 2012 06:04 Bareleon wrote:
Lol this turned into BW vs. SC2.
But no worries my SC2 brethren, we shall prevail!! The better game. SC2 shall win!!!
If you ask me, LoL is a more deserving successor to BW as a successor. It's what people is actually competing on in Korea.
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On May 03 2012 06:04 Bareleon wrote:
Lol this turned into BW vs. SC2.
But no worries my SC2 brethren, we shall prevail!! The better game. SC2 shall win!!!
In what regard? Graphics? Maybe you should consider playing Crysis since gameplay doesn't seem to be your kind of thing. 
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On May 03 2012 06:06 VManOfMana wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 06:04 Bareleon wrote:
Lol this turned into BW vs. SC2.
But no worries my SC2 brethren, we shall prevail!! The better game. SC2 shall win!!! If you ask me, LoL is a more deserving successor to BW as a successor. It's what people is actually competing on in Korea.
To be honest, u cant even say its possible to compete in that game, after all that skill ceilling thing, when there is not such a thing on LoL
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On May 03 2012 05:43 Bareleon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 05:30 Klonere wrote:On May 03 2012 05:27 blahblahblahwhatever wrote:On May 03 2012 05:15 Klonere wrote:On May 03 2012 04:52 tedster wrote:On May 02 2012 23:57 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 02 2012 23:44 maybenexttime wrote:On May 02 2012 23:04 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 02 2012 22:55 GeLaar wrote:
I can't believe Blizzard pulled this off. I can't believe the Korean e-sports organisations let themselves get into a situation where Blizzard has them by the balls.
OGN and Kespa are taking some pretty big risks:
1. They might alienate their Korean fans - there is only one game that every Korean grew up knowing, and they're turing their backs on it and saying "Hey, let's have millions of people switch to this other game!". I'm curious to see if this will work, and if it does, how many times it will work (because they will have to do it again for the two "expansions", and for SC3, and so on.)
2. Since SC2 doesn't have LAN, these organisations are now completely at Blizzard's mercy. Blizzard now has the power to pull the plug on Proleague or any other event, without having to go to the Korean courts. With Brood War, the situation was different. After Blizzard backed out of the lawsuit, it was theirs to do whatever they wanted with it. That's a pretty big thing they gave away. I hope for their sake that the relationship doesn't sour, and that Blizzard doesn't decide to change the deal.
Overall, it's clear to me why Kespa and OGN did it. It's right there in the statement: international exposure. They are likely to get it, but the risks they are taking seem immense to me. It is a huge change, and if handled correctly and professionally it will be a huge step forward. I understand your concerns completely, I can see how if it was to go sour it would destroy an entire industry that's been over 10 years in the making. One thing that's clear for me is that if there are disputes amongst the united organisations it would no doubt be fixed without any underlying injustice. All of these organisations care about esports and, being a business, also care about money and the industry. I'm sure that Blizzard (as well as the other parties involved) won't impose such a dictatorial attitude due to the fact that success for ALL of the organisations means success for each of them, if they hurt their partners then in turn they hurt themselves. No, blizzard does not care about esport. Otherwise they wouldn't have tried to kill BW so badly. So far they have shown they're too incompetent to fix sc2, so I hope what they did will bite them in the ass. They're becoming the new EA, screw them... That's an interesting opinion. It has left me wondering, If they didn't care about esports why would they take part in this union? Surely if esports promotes their game, then esports is something worth investing time and resources into since it makes them more money, right? So that means they must care about esports because of their investments. They are trying to sell a new game. They don't really care about games they aren't making money from any more and aren't really concerned with the overall health and quality of esports, just New Blizzard Products. Blizzard realize that they failed miserable in the Korean launch of Starcraft II (along with squandering links to the most incredible esports scene ever) and are looking at LoL making WoW type cash. They want a piece of the Korean pie and this is how they are doing it, putting SC2 on the front and center of the biggest gaming broadcaster in SK, mainly via legal muscle rather than any concern about ESPORTS/. Can we start some kind of online petition?? Online petitions involving the least important, least numerous component of the BW community, sounds like a fantastic idea! No this isn't going to be changed by anything, my BW heart is cold and dead since Kpop killed MBC. Blizzard can do what they like with SC2, I am beginning to get to the point where I truly think its going to be a dead game in a years time. Like BW? Trust me, sc2 will last generations longer than BW.
Ok so we have SC2 pretty much dead on arrival in Korea, the scene there has easily the most talented, hard-working players, putting in hours to become the best but an extremely low amount of Korean fans cheering them on. It doesn't get played in PC Bangs, due to ridiculous Bnet account requirements, plus you can play LoL with your friends with ALL THE HERO'S UNLOCKED!. So the main place where Korean gamers congregate and discuss games has little to no SC2 in it. GOM heavily relys on subs from the foreign community to keep going, with pathetic studio attendances and their incredible production skills making up for small audiences at finals. Korean teams have all been living on the edge, with some teams like Zenex needing their players to pay to stay in team-house rather than the other way around. IM and FXO are the only teams with stable sponsors.
In the foreigner scene we have a growing movement of apathy towards the trend of Korean domination in tournaments. GOM has the Code S seed to get foreigner subs for GSL more than anything. Foreigner teams care more about being players having a following and being active on social media, which is fair enough seeing as they have a business to run which is more like a charity. Foreigner fans argue more about casters than the actual game. LoL is getting huge in the West as well, pulling gigantic numbers. The game itself has some serious design issues, both in gameplay and UI. Without radical intervention by Blizzard I don't see it being around for very long.
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I might be able to stomach no more BW if LJD switches over... otherwise? I'm going to be more sad than I already am :/
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On May 03 2012 06:13 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 06:04 Bareleon wrote:
Lol this turned into BW vs. SC2.
But no worries my SC2 brethren, we shall prevail!! The better game. SC2 shall win!!! In what regard? Graphics? Maybe you should consider playing Crysis since gameplay doesn't seem to be your kind of thing.
I actually prefer game play over graphics, unlike you it seems.
And most games to me are boring. Its not very often I find a game that I enjoy.
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Sigh, so many ass-holes on TeamLiquid, community has really gone to shit.
Anyway, I never played Broodwar and never really watched it either. But I check out the LR threads sometimes and read your comments. Brood war players are so passionate and loving about their game. I've seen it make people's day and break people's heart. This is all shitty news for them. Broodwar fans, I salute you, but don't leave. Give SC2 a chance, see if KESPA having a go at SC2 it can win your hearts over. Then you may see your favourite players play for many years to come.
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I am actually downloading LoL right now. To see maybe I can find a new game to keep my interest like the SC series continues to keep my interest.
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mmm Why you pleople think about LoL as the sucessor of BW, its complete different, its not even an RTS, because has a lot of fans? Why couldn't be two differents sports like soccer and basketball?, totally differents with different audencies. I really don't see any other RTS be able to fullfill the RTS hole of BW, Now it need to be SC2. I really love BW, I also believe that BW is more entertaining than SC2 because I feel is so easy to die to random stuff and that still exists holes in the builds and things to be explored so u cannot see every game decided by battles for the 5 o 6 exp and just aiming for death ball. I believe that the problem with SC2 is that you could have all your units in 1 hotkey. So deadballs became possible.
The thing is is a good sucessor, who knows, nobody likes the princes if we have a good king, nobody want the king to die, but that just nature, lets hope that in sometime with some work that prince become a good king.
You could think about another RTS that can right now become the sucessor of BW? (Yes it need a successor because they has been poisoned, could you find the cure? not? well find the sucessor then )
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On May 03 2012 06:27 Bareleon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 06:13 maybenexttime wrote:On May 03 2012 06:04 Bareleon wrote:
Lol this turned into BW vs. SC2.
But no worries my SC2 brethren, we shall prevail!! The better game. SC2 shall win!!! In what regard? Graphics? Maybe you should consider playing Crysis since gameplay doesn't seem to be your kind of thing. I actually prefer game play over graphics, unlike you it seems. And most games to me are boring. Its not very often I find a game that I enjoy.
you called sc2 the better game...i can't help but think majority of those who played both games for long time will say bw is better in terms of game play regarding units and spells and their relation to each other. i'm glad you enjoy sc2 though, many bw people do also.
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EPT
