TeamLiquid was invited to cover one of the most mysterious e-sports events in recent memory, the vaguely titled StarCraft II eSports Transition Celebration: “New Era”. Hopefully, it will be the event at which all our questions about KeSPA, OnGameNet, and the Korean Brood War professionals will be answered.
Waxangel is dead from jet lag and GSL coverage, so there will be many new updates tomorrow!
Key Points & New Information
by TeamLiquid
The main purpose of the event was to announce that Blizzard, GomTV, KeSPA, an OnGameNet are now on the same page, and willing to work together to advance Starcraft II as an eSport in Korea. To that end, KeSPA and OnGameNet now have the right to produce and broadcast Starcraft II tournaments. This agreement between the four parties was reached only very recently, and the parties have yet to work out the specific details of their cooperation. Those details will be released in the future by the relevant parties as they work with each other.
Here is a list of new information, or confirmed speculation for the three eSports organizations in Korea:
KeSPA
Starcraft II has been officially recognized as a KeSPA game.
SK Planet Proleague Season II (starting in May) will have both Starcraft II and Brood War. It's undetermined as to how they will be integrated, but KeSPA specifically mentioned they would look for a more interesting way than alternating sets of each game.
The Proleague season after SK Planet Season II (starting on October) is planned to be completely Starcraft II.
At this time, there are no details regarding the future participation of GSTL/GomTV teams.
Spreading Korean eSports around the world is a goal, and KeSPA has been negotiating with various international organizations.
OnGameNet
OnGameNet plans to hold an individual level Starcraft II league in July. They would like to make it as open as possible so that anyone can compete, whether they are KeSPA, GomTV, and even amateur players.
OnGameNet plans to broadcast to foreign audiences, and they have experience doing this with their LOL league.
GomTV
GomTV would welcome the Brood War professionals to compete against GSL players in a tournament or show match setting, and would facilitate it whenever the Brood War players were ready and desired it.
Official Blizzard Release
by TeamLiquid
A translated version of the official Blizzard press release.
Blizzard Entertainment, GomTV, OnGameNet, and KeSPA held a “united Starcraft II eSports vision ceremony” at the COEX Intercontinental Hotel on May 2nd, announcing that the four parties had joined in a cooperative relationship for the future of Korean eSports.
This historic partnership has given KeSPA the license to hold team level Starcraft II leagues, while Ongamenet has been given the license to hold and broadcast individual level Starcraft II leagues. In addition, Starcraft II was made an officially recognized KeSPA discipline.
With new Starcraft II leagues made possible, there will be a total of four Starcraft II leagues in Korea, including the GSL and GSTL run by GomTV since 2010. The leagues will be broadcast to viewers through cable television or the internet.
The four parties also agreed to continued cooperation for the long term growth of eSports in and outside of Korea.
Through this agreement, the various Starcraft II eSports leagues will be able to exchange players. The four parties who participated in the ceremony came to a mutual agreement to work towards expanding exchanges between themselves, and will announce details regarding this process in the future.
“Blizzard is devoted to the future of Korean eSports. Korea has been a world leader in developing the eSports industry, and we are very happy that we will be able to see more televised games between the best players in the world, Korean Starcraft II players” said Blizzard Entertainment COO Paul Sams. “We think that it is very important that we formed an cooperative relationship with GomTV, OnGameNet, and KeSPA, who share a vision for the future of eSports in Korea.”
GomTV representative Bae In Sik said “GomTV will continue to uphold its ideal of eSports as something that is open to the entire world, and we will cooperate with eSports companies in and out of Korea for the balanced growth of Starcraft II not just in Korea, but in the entire world.”
CJ E&M [OnGamenet mother company] representative Kim Seong Soo said “OnGameNet has been a pioneer in the new market called eSports for the last ten years. It's now time for Korean esports to make a second leap, and make its way into the global market. “This four party cooperation is an opportunity to affirm the love of esports fans around the world, and we believe it will be a key impetus in the globalization of esports."
Korean eSports association chairman Lee Hyung Hee said “KeSPA stood at the center of development of Starcraft esports, and contributed greatly to laying the foundation for the Korean eSports industry. Starcraft II, which will be implemented in the SK Planet Proleague Season 2, is a great game that has been acclaimed around the world, and we await its role in elevating the eSports market to another level.” “KeSPA, Blizzard, OGN, and Gretech's cooperation is the starting point for Korean eSports to rise again.”
The schedules, participation requirements, prize money, and other details for the new KeSPA Team League and OGN Iidnvidual league will be released at a future date.
Live Coverage via @TeamLiquidLive
by TeamLiquid
The event has concluded. This is a record of the live coverage that was available via Twitter. Quotes in Twitter may be heavily paraphrased for brevity and speed.
Interviews
by TeamLiquid
We have confirmed an interview with the following - Paul Sams, COO, Blizzard Enterainment. - Mr Won, Startale Manager - JulyZerg
These interviews will be posted after the event finishes.
I find this mix of epic music tracks appropriate. Read this sentence in a Morgan Freeman voice "The time has come, the time is now. Will foreigners be out of the picture forever? Will koreans dominate even more of the sc2 scene?" + Show Spoiler +
Incredibly nervous about this. I hope it lives up to being what the community wants it to be, but at the same time I hope that the fears I have about whgat this means for Global SC2 are unfounded...
I really dont see how this could end up hurting the international scene at all. Most likely just going to be more exposure and we will maybe get to see flash,bisu,jaedong,stork,fantasy etc. outside of korea playing sc2
So, let's have a bit of the nice korean style pr, should be fun. And just as I say that "Part of me wishes they woulda just sent us an email saying "by the way, the next season of proleague will be half BW, half SC2", indeed^^
On May 02 2012 10:33 Myles wrote: To all those disappointed about no stream(I'm one of them) just imagine you're in a real LR thread from a few years back.
I am but back then the infrastructure wasn't what it is now
Oh well, its all good. Though an ESPN sportsdesk with hotbid trolling in between updates would be fun too
On May 02 2012 10:33 Myles wrote: To all those disappointed about no stream(I'm one of them) just imagine you're in a real LR thread from a few years back.
Yeah it's totally more epic and nerve-wrecking this way!
I'm going to pretend that they are all pulling up to the hotel in limos, dressed up in black tie attire, and the red carpet is laid out. As the titans of Starcraft exit their rides, cameras flash and Korean paparazzi desperately try to get interviews with leading figures and players.
"Hello world, I'm Ryan Seacreast, live from the red carpet from the Starcraft II eSports Transition Conference from beautiful Seoul Korea!"
Confirmed list of players attending: SC1: Flash (KT), Leta (CJ), Calm (STX), Stork (Samsung), Bisu (SKT), ZerO (Woongjin) SC2: Nestea (LG-IM), Leenock (FXO), DRG (MVP), July (ST), BoxeR (SlayerS)
ZerO's there oh even more hype :3
Betting on no real news but an annoucement on how everybody loves each other and sc2 esport yadayada, we'll announce a partnership and mariage soon.. But who knows ?
On May 02 2012 10:44 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: This is the most awesome thing in esports history. Flash chatting with Nestea I feel like we're watching the Berlin Wall come down.
When flash is chatting with a new foreigner like Stephano then, THEN the Berlin wall has fallen.
On May 02 2012 10:39 a9arnn wrote: The suspense is killing me :O!
Edit:
Confirmed list of players attending: SC1: Flash (KT), Leta (CJ), Calm (STX), Stork (Samsung), Bisu (SKT), ZerO (Woongjin) SC2: Nestea (LG-IM), Leenock (FXO), DRG (MVP), July (ST), BoxeR (SlayerS)
ZerO's there oh even more hype :3
Betting on no real news but an annoucement on how everybody loves each other and sc2 esport yadayada, we'll announce a partnership and mariage soon.. But who knows ?
That's probably true, but it's ZerO, I have to get excited about that :D!
On May 02 2012 10:44 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: This is the most awesome thing in esports history. Flash chatting with Nestea I feel like we're watching the Berlin Wall come down.
When flash is chatting with a new foreigner like Stephano then, THEN the Berlin wall has fallen.
Yeah, i mean nestea has coached KT before so its not really a big deal that theyre talking.
On May 02 2012 10:44 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: This is the most awesome thing in esports history. Flash chatting with Nestea I feel like we're watching the Berlin Wall come down.
On May 02 2012 10:44 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: This is the most awesome thing in esports history. Flash chatting with Nestea I feel like we're watching the Berlin Wall come down.
They should get the TL representative that is present to take pics (if they are allowed?) to go along with the updates, similar to what tech blogs do at Apple/tech announcements.
On May 02 2012 10:44 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: This is the most awesome thing in esports history. Flash chatting with Nestea I feel like we're watching the Berlin Wall come down.
Nestea was a former teammate of Flash.
"I heard my former 2v2 partner was retiring... find me someone new when you guys all come over?"
On May 02 2012 10:44 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: This is the most awesome thing in esports history. Flash chatting with Nestea I feel like we're watching the Berlin Wall come down.
nestea was a part of KT.
he was a part of KTF, he left before it became KT.
On May 02 2012 10:48 Nate5911 wrote: They should get the TL representative that is present to take pics (if they are allowed?) to go along with the updates, similar to what tech blogs do at Apple/tech announcements.
"Press release as followed: - KeSPA will have a license to hold team-based SC2 league. - OGN will have a license to hold individual SC2 leauge. - SC2 will be KeSPA-approved official game"
On May 02 2012 10:54 rebdomine wrote: So this is how it all ends, with thunderous applause.
(Props to anyone who can get the reference)
lol I imagine most people have seen revenge of the sith
And I still wish I didn't
Once I had seen the first too, I was ready for everything :p So, talks about how everyone is great and love each other now I guess ? Edit : no blind rawr, I didn't lol Years of reading "cheer for me i'll work hard" does that to one's mind doesn't it ?
With MBC gone Gom gets to slide in quite nicely as a replacement. I wonder if OGN and Gom will share the same relationship in regards to the "prestige" of their individual leagues, regardless of how late the OSL is to SC2.
On May 02 2012 10:56 BLinD-RawR wrote: I thought this would be good news for everyone....now I'm sad...
Oh come on blind rawr at least you still play sc2 compared to me and maybe the game will grow on you . I think it's really over for me this time .
I know how you feel sawamura
Come on guys, at least hold out for the expansion, HotS could bring some changes you like and appreciate in the gameplay. Or give it a chance once the expansion is out after the fact.
On May 02 2012 10:56 BLinD-RawR wrote: I thought this would be good news for everyone....now I'm sad...
I'm not sure what else you were expecting from a conference with Blizzard, KeSPA and GOM. You thought they were gonna stick with BW?
not stick with it, but at least let it live for a while, hopefully the least they could do now is to wait until OSL is over to start their new season of PL.
I think July is a perfect spokesman for a transition speech. After all, his style hasn't changed a bit from one game to another. And apparently, he speaks the same :D
On May 02 2012 11:05 Zerothegreat wrote: SC2 + BW Hybrid? Could they be talking about the BW custom maps for SC2?
no, more like, well I'll explain with an example.
KT Rolster vs SK Telecom T1 Set1 BW Set2 SC2 Set3 BW Set4 SC2 Set5 BW Set6 SC2 ACE BW
they alternate between games for each set.
They really need to trash that hybrid idea, because it lowers the quality of BOTH games. They need to finish out OSL, and maybe 1 more round of PL with BW to keep the players something to play for/reason to practice. While I having like small SC2 exhibitions or something. Then just fully transition to SC2..
On May 02 2012 11:05 Zerothegreat wrote: SC2 + BW Hybrid? Could they be talking about the BW custom maps for SC2?
no, more like, well I'll explain with an example.
KT Rolster vs SK Telecom T1 Set1 BW Set2 SC2 Set3 BW Set4 SC2 Set5 BW Set6 SC2 ACE BW
they alternate between games for each set.
They really need to trash that hybrid idea, because it lowers the quality of BOTH games. They need to finish out OSL, and maybe 1 more round of PL with BW to keep the players something to play for/reason to practice. While I having like small SC2 exhibitions or something. Then just fully transition to SC2..
Should the next season of proleague be hybrid, I guess I'm in it for the BW If its pure Sc2, I'll do the same as I do now, stick around, look at old familiar faces, but fade into the backround. TT
KeSPA rep presenting Blizz with a certificate that recognizes SC II as an official KeSPA game.
For letting us use your game after we paid licensing fees, we would like to present you with this certificate. So you can feel important because we decided we wanted to use your game. you should feel very honoured! We don't give this distinction to just anyone
The best thing about this press conference is Waxangel's coverage. I'm glad he's as cynical of the "look at how friendly we all are!" message, as I am.
On May 02 2012 11:05 Zerothegreat wrote: SC2 + BW Hybrid? Could they be talking about the BW custom maps for SC2?
no, more like, well I'll explain with an example.
KT Rolster vs SK Telecom T1 Set1 BW Set2 SC2 Set3 BW Set4 SC2 Set5 BW Set6 SC2 ACE BW
they alternate between games for each set.
I really don't like this idea. They are different games. It just doesn't make sense to me to do something like this.
NOBODY likes it, its fucking trash.
While I agree the idea is terrible, it might work maybe (but probably not).
This being said, I feel that language was a little much for the sentiment at hand. I understand its emotional to see your game slowly phase out it looks like, but I think we can agree that being a little more mature about the situation would be good.
Does anyone have a list of the existing Official Kespa games? I'm not sure what it means for SC2 to become a part of that. Is it just BW? I took a look at the kespa site but it looks like they haven't updated their English site in years.
On May 02 2012 11:05 Zerothegreat wrote: SC2 + BW Hybrid? Could they be talking about the BW custom maps for SC2?
no, more like, well I'll explain with an example.
KT Rolster vs SK Telecom T1 Set1 BW Set2 SC2 Set3 BW Set4 SC2 Set5 BW Set6 SC2 ACE BW
they alternate between games for each set.
They really need to trash that hybrid idea, because it lowers the quality of BOTH games. They need to finish out OSL, and maybe 1 more round of PL with BW to keep the players something to play for/reason to practice. While I having like small SC2 exhibitions or something. Then just fully transition to SC2..
I get the business decision for doing it (they want to eeze the BW fans into SC2 slowly) but it really will hurt the BW quality games way more than SC2. Everyone knows the eventual result so which game do you think they will practice more.
On April 27 2012 09:18 eviltomahawk wrote: Listening to State of the Game.
Artosis knows nothing about this conference, which he claims is strange since he is usually aware of stuff in the scene months in advance.
Most of the hosts think that most of this conference will be rather generic PR statements about expanding esports and cooperating and catering the fans yada yada yada. Although they speculate that perhaps there might be some info about the upcoming Proleague.
All in all, not much info discussed on State of the Game. Just basic speculation.
Well, guess SotG was right. Most of this was just PR. I'm disappointed that they haven't announced any concrete Proleague plans other than just mentioning that it will include SC2.
On May 02 2012 11:05 Zerothegreat wrote: SC2 + BW Hybrid? Could they be talking about the BW custom maps for SC2?
no, more like, well I'll explain with an example.
KT Rolster vs SK Telecom T1 Set1 BW Set2 SC2 Set3 BW Set4 SC2 Set5 BW Set6 SC2 ACE BW
they alternate between games for each set.
I really don't like this idea. They are different games. It just doesn't make sense to me to do something like this.
NOBODY likes it, its fucking trash.
While I agree the idea is terrible, it might work maybe (but probably not).
This being said, I feel that language was a little much for the sentiment at hand. I understand its emotional to see your game slowly phase out it looks like, but I think we can agree that being a little more mature about the situation would be good.
well, if I knew how to deliver the same comment with the same tone and with more maturity, I would.
"I thank you all for inviting me to this event. I have practiced alot of SC2 due to it being included in the new season, and had much difficulty learning different things from SC1. I hope to come back to the new season with good quality games. I also wish for the global fans to give support to us SC1 players so we can bring our best games."
On May 02 2012 11:05 Zerothegreat wrote: SC2 + BW Hybrid? Could they be talking about the BW custom maps for SC2?
no, more like, well I'll explain with an example.
KT Rolster vs SK Telecom T1 Set1 BW Set2 SC2 Set3 BW Set4 SC2 Set5 BW Set6 SC2 ACE BW
they alternate between games for each set.
I really don't like this idea. They are different games. It just doesn't make sense to me to do something like this.
NOBODY likes it, its fucking trash.
Would it be better if they just completely switched to SC2 and drop BW all together?
ofc keeping BW would be your ideal answer but is mixed better than BW gone.
Yes it would be. So we wouldn't have to watch horrible lower level, games from the players we loved, having to split their practice time between BW and Star2.
This is one historical event I've never hoped to bear witness to. I don't even know how to write... it was good knowing you, korean professional Brood War scene. Though the game definitely deserve its greatness and will keep burning on regardless of this cruel fate, I would be lying if I didn't acknowledge that your presence made following Brood War tenfolds more entertaining. You've been with me since childhood, and like many of the those things you are now lost. ... Good bye good years- the Golden Decades of Brood War.
On May 02 2012 11:12 Paraiba wrote: Well that was underwhelming.
Really? did you want july to shoot fireworks around the conference room?
SC2 has been accepted by KESPA... How is that underwhelming?
A year ago people would have laughed (some still will) if you mentioned KESPA and SC2 in the same sentence.
We already knew this would happen. I expected to see more concrete details, such as dates, the format of the next PL, and which teams will be participating.
On May 02 2012 11:19 Lefiathen wrote: whats with this coverage? its good but... what does the progamers said? what does the gom-kespa-OGN representatives said?
KeSPA Players will be able to play in GSL? GSL players will be able to play in OGN/Kespa leagues?...
On May 02 2012 11:19 Lefiathen wrote: whats with this coverage? its good but... what does the progamers said? what does the gom-kespa-OGN representatives said?
KeSPA Players will be able to play in GSL? GSL players will be able to play in OGN/Kespa leagues?...
On May 02 2012 11:12 Paraiba wrote: Well that was underwhelming.
Really? did you want july to shoot fireworks around the conference room?
SC2 has been accepted by KESPA... How is that underwhelming?
A year ago people would have laughed (some still will) if you mentioned KESPA and SC2 in the same sentence.
We already knew this would happen. I expected to see more concrete details, such as dates, the format of the next PL, and which teams will be participating.
That's not what this press conference is about though.
On May 02 2012 11:17 Hesmyrr wrote: This is one historical event I've never hoped to bear witness to. I don't even know how to write... it was good knowing you, korean professional Brood War scene. Though the game definitely deserve its greatness and will keep burning on regardless of this cruel fate, I would be lying if I didn't acknowledge that your presence made following Brood War tenfolds more entertaining. You've been with me since childhood, and like many of the those things you are now lost. ... Good bye good years- the Golden Decades of Brood War.
So much drama. The writing was on the wall once SC2 esports took off in the west. Blizzard et al. won't support both games simultaneously for longer than necessary to make the transition because it segments their market.
On May 02 2012 11:04 where_ wrote: I just woke up and have no idea what's going on from this thread. Have they actually announced anything?
Nothing else than that Kespa and OGN now can broadcast sc2 games. Regarding any specifics they are just going to go the old "lol I don't know yet" route. What a waste of time it was waiting for this T.T
Thank goodness for the TLLIVE Live Report coverage in the OP.
I'm trying to read through this thread to get a better understanding of things and it's more confusing than anything.
I'm hoping that an official write-up eventually gets posted in a new thread when the smoke clears (the dust settles? whatever) and we can make heads or tails of everything that's been said.
Flash speaks first, "I thank you all for inviting me to this event. I have practiced alot of SC2 due to it being included in the new season, and had much difficulty learning different things from SC1. I hope to come back to the new season with good quality games. I also wish for the global fans to give support to us SC1 players so we can bring our best games."
If this really is the end, goodbye BW. A game I never knew existed until it was too late. I can only hope that SC2 is eventually able to match it in greatness.
This whole thing was silly, how can they have this whole presser and it be completely void of anything interesting outside of the fact SC2 will somehow be associated with Kespa?
"Personally, I feel honoured to stand before 12 teams of GSL. I think SC2, since the release in 2010, had made a historical impact to the new form of eSports. eSports of SC2 had gained popularity and I had experienced in firsthand at each foreign tournament I attended. Learning SC2 was not an easy thing to do, but I did so with joy. I thank you to the four organizations for making this possible, and I wish for them to support the players."
July didn't say much of substance but he does sound like the most natural upstage.
On May 02 2012 11:21 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Thank goodness for the TLLIVE Live Report coverage in the OP.
I'm trying to read through this thread to get a better understanding of things and it's more confusing than anything.
I'm hoping that an official write-up eventually gets posted in a new thread when the smoke clears (the dust settles? whatever) and we can make heads or tails of everything that's been said.
In the mean time: F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5.
There's nothing new. They've pretty much just confirmed what we already know.
- KeSPA, OGN, Blizzard and Gretech will be working together to promote SC2 and esports in Korea - Next season PL will have SC2 in it (NO clarification if it's half BW/half SC2 as rumored) - KeSPA officially sanctions SC2 - OGN and KeSPA get rights to broadcast and host SC2 tournaments.
On May 02 2012 11:22 UndoneJin wrote: This whole thing was silly, how can they have this whole presser and it be completely void of anything interesting outside of the fact SC2 will somehow be associated with Kespa?
Blizzard and Kespa working together to make announcements!?
yeah everyone knew that was going to give useful nonvague information in a timely fashion.
BW doesn't live. This means we'll have a crippled/handicapped BW as all players will focus more on SC2 (except those in OSL), but even they will have to practice SC2 for the eventual transition. BW on life-support is not the BW I desire
"We're finding a better way to implement it than just alternating sets of SC2/BW"
OH THANK FUCKING YOUNGHO.
I hope they can do like 1 round BW/1 round sc2/1 round BW. Or some mixture like that (given proleague always works in rounds, and in past had winner's league rounds).
On May 02 2012 11:17 Hesmyrr wrote: This is one historical event I've never hoped to bear witness to. I don't even know how to write... it was good knowing you, korean professional Brood War scene. Though the game definitely deserve its greatness and will keep burning on regardless of this cruel fate, I would be lying if I didn't acknowledge that your presence made following Brood War tenfolds more entertaining. You've been with me since childhood, and like many of the those things you are now lost. ... Good bye good years- the Golden Decades of Brood War.
So much drama. The writing was on the wall once SC2 esports took off in the west. Blizzard et al. won't support both games simultaneously for longer than necessary to make the transition because it segments their market.
don't be a jerk let the guy express himself bw started it all
On May 02 2012 11:12 Paraiba wrote: Well that was underwhelming.
Really? did you want july to shoot fireworks around the conference room?
SC2 has been accepted by KESPA... How is that underwhelming?
A year ago people would have laughed (some still will) if you mentioned KESPA and SC2 in the same sentence.
We already knew this would happen. I expected to see more concrete details, such as dates, the format of the next PL, and which teams will be participating.
That's not what this press conference is about though.
Turns out they just addressed some of these questions!
What really makes me sad is that the only reason bw's life is threatened is directly because of sc2. Not because the game has gotten boring or stale (quite the contrary actually)
Oh well.. not like life is always fair anyways... at least were gonna gave some games coming our way with a hybrid (even if the quality of games are gonna tank)
I get that people want to still see bw but... I don't think hybrid bw/sc2 is a good idea. I know we don't know the full details but, how will we see the highest level of play when people are not devoting their full time to one game?
Just seems like a strange idea. I wonder if bw will only be like 1 or 2 more seasons just to transition.
Ugh. Well, can't say I'm too happy about that. All I can see this leading to is either separation (due to players only practicing one game) or a loss of quality (due to players practicing two completely different games), neither which is good...they should've just kept PL as BW-only for another season and made the individual league SC2-only, or vice versa.
On May 02 2012 11:22 UndoneJin wrote: This whole thing was silly, how can they have this whole presser and it be completely void of anything interesting outside of the fact SC2 will somehow be associated with Kespa?
Its the korean players interview of press conferences.
And the hybrid idea fucking sucks. Why would I want to watch players play both games badly?
On May 02 2012 11:28 Emporio wrote: The best part of the news about the hybrid for me is that there will finally be a high production value presentation of bad BW in english.
Okay, I should stop raging but hybrid is such a stupid idea... even full SC2 is preferable.
On May 02 2012 11:29 JOJOsc2news wrote: There will be a hybrid league for one year and then it will be StarCraft II only right? I am not sure about that hybrid phase to be honest.
On May 02 2012 11:29 JOJOsc2news wrote: There will be a hybrid league for one year and then it will be StarCraft II only right? I am not sure about that hybrid phase to be honest.
Having an all BW or SC2 season is much better than a hybrid one. If they had a hybrid season then the quality of matches would suffer due to the fact that players would have to practice for both games. Nonetheless hoping to hear some information that we haven't heard of yet or know specific dates as to when things will occur.
On May 02 2012 11:28 Emporio wrote: The best part of the news about the hybrid for me is that there will finally be a high production value presentation of professional BW in english.
NO, WE MUST HAVE KOREAN OGN CASTERS.
Realistically though, OGN is probably going to pick up English casters, if they did it for LoL they'll do it for SC2. I wonder if thats part of the reason they got moletrap + Torch?
Just to be the one optimist in the thread - having a hybrid SC2/BW league may lead to more interest in BW and therefore the extension of BW. It's like when networks move a struggling show to follow a more popular one.
So weird to hold this conference to announce things when all the agreements aren't even finished yet and there is not a lot of info to be shared... I'm guessing they only rushed to do this for the Hybrid PL.
On May 02 2012 11:29 JOJOsc2news wrote: There will be a hybrid league for one year and then it will be StarCraft II only right? I am not sure about that hybrid phase to be honest.
May season Hybrid, Oct full SC2
And foreign broadcasts
Is there any decent english speaking bw caster though ? Edit : willing to go to korea and cast this.
So one question, if this PL will somehow be BW and Sc2, I guess that some players will just keep playing BW, and others will switch to SC2, will the sc2 players in the hybrid proleague season be allowed to\are they likely to be playing in other SC2 tournaments also? (E.g GSL\foreign tournaments)? And also, if there is a hybrid sc2\bw league, would it not make sense to keep the top tier broodwar players playing broodwar until it is completely faded out?
On May 02 2012 11:17 Hesmyrr wrote: This is one historical event I've never hoped to bear witness to. I don't even know how to write... it was good knowing you, korean professional Brood War scene. Though the game definitely deserve its greatness and will keep burning on regardless of this cruel fate, I would be lying if I didn't acknowledge that your presence made following Brood War tenfolds more entertaining. You've been with me since childhood, and like many of the those things you are now lost. ... Good bye good years- the Golden Decades of Brood War.
So much drama. The writing was on the wall once SC2 esports took off in the west. Blizzard et al. won't support both games simultaneously for longer than necessary to make the transition because it segments their market.
don't be a jerk let the guy express himself bw started it all
TL Live Report @TeamLiquidLIVE So, May: Hybrid, Oct: full SC2, if things go as planned
+ they're finding a way of integrating SC2 teams into Oct PL. That plus the fact that the next OSL is not confirmed (although highly likely) to be SC2, just basically means that KeSPA players will probably be in a state of limbo for awhile having to juggle between two games.
I guess the last question left to ask is will any of the KeSPA players be trying out for Code A next season.
How long would the hybrid season be May-August? September? Doesn't seem like much =/ Please please please alternate days and not sets, it'd be a bitch to LR
On May 02 2012 11:27 sGs.Kal_rA wrote: What really makes me sad is that the only reason bw's life is threatened is directly because of sc2. Not because the game has gotten boring or stale (quite the contrary actually)
Oh well.. not like life is always fair anyways... at least were gonna gave some games coming our way with a hybrid (even if the quality of games are gonna tank)
Weren't there already cracks in BW, seeing as how there was the period of not having enough sponsors for all the teams and needing to disband and combine some of them?
From everything I've heard, there is practically no competition for money in Korea from SC2, so while the international market makes BW look unsustainable, seeing as how Korea was where all the money was coming from anyways, it's hard for me to imagine that SC2 really brought about that downfall. At best, you could say SC2 provided a legitimate alternative plan to an already (slowly) declining BW.
I'm ideally hoping for 3 rounds (1 round BW 1 round sc2 1 round BW) and figure out something good for playoffs (like day1 bw day 2 sc2 day3 bw could lead to people being shitty practicing half and half. But at least the teams could dedicate people to playing one full time and not suck).
I'm ideally hoping for 3 rounds (1 round BW 1 round sc2 1 round BW) and figure out something good for playoffs (like day1 bw day 2 sc2 day3 bw could lead to people being shitty practicing half and half. But at least the teams could dedicate people to playing one full time and not suck).
Not gonna happen. They need people to watch both games, not just pick the day of the game they prefer. Think about it, this is pretty much 100% to get the Korean BW fans more exposed to SC2. What better way to do that than to intersect it with BW.
On May 02 2012 11:31 eviltomahawk wrote: Well, at least some more concrete news is starting to come out of this.
Hybrid PL in May. Full SC2 PL in October, with GSL/GSTL teams.
And cool to see OGN plan on preparing for English broadcasts. Moletrap, anyone? lmao.
I'm down for Moletrap to give everyone that was around for the SC2GG days some more BW Flash crushing Zero wasn't enough
OGN needs to hunt down Cholera and drag him over to Korea for the twilight days of BW.
Hearing Cholera one last time would be amazing I must say :D
And maybe Klazart.
As much as I loved him, I'm not sure someone who can't distinguish the most basic builds should be on official casts :-( Seriously interested in seeing who they choose.
On May 02 2012 11:27 sGs.Kal_rA wrote: What really makes me sad is that the only reason bw's life is threatened is directly because of sc2. Not because the game has gotten boring or stale (quite the contrary actually)
Oh well.. not like life is always fair anyways... at least were gonna gave some games coming our way with a hybrid (even if the quality of games are gonna tank)
If BW was the game-of-choice for fans, then it would've stood on it's own legs. SC2 wouldn't have affected it.
I don't often find myself in a position where I actually really support a company, of course every company is in it for business...but holy shit words cannot describe how 99% of the time I fucking love everything GOMTV decides to do
[11:20] Q: Is OGN, currently doing SC1 and (will do) SC2 concurrently, moving to SC2 for individual leauge? Mr. Hwang: First of all, a schedule for SC2 League hasn't been finalized, but we are looking into the early July for the first season. OSL in SC1 will start its main tournament in 2 weeks, but if issues of sponsoship and players are solved, then this league may not be the final SC1 league. SC1 has been a big role for 10 years and saying farewell to it isn't bad either, but I cannot guarantee you that this will be the final one.
[11:20] Q: Is OGN, currently doing SC1 and (will do) SC2 concurrently, moving to SC2 for individual leauge? Mr. Hwang: First of all, a schedule for SC2 League hasn't been finalized, but we are looking into the early July for the first season. OSL in SC1 will start its main tournament in 2 weeks, but if issues of sponsoship and players are solved, then this league may not be the final SC1 league. SC1 has been a big role for 10 years and saying farewell to it isn't bad either, but I cannot guarantee you that this will be the final one.
Here's the official hybrid integration process and solution:
Instead of playing alternating sets of BW and SC2, players will play matches between BW and SC2. We believe this will make for interesting games and bring both communities closer together.
Unit sounds and music will differ for each player and we will implement a new observer UI that allows the spectator or referee to choose between BW or SC2 music.
Our talks about this have all been fluff and rainbows until Dustin Browder insisted on adding at least 4 sets of Destructible Rocks on each tournament map. We gave him a large 4 piece puzzle to color in and as you all can see, he finished it while we agreed on the terms we presented you today.
We cannot tell you details or dates but we love us, each other and you! More information soon to come when Dustin is done coloring the huge broken heart that says "BW Fans". Thank you!
[11:20] Q: Is OGN, currently doing SC1 and (will do) SC2 concurrently, moving to SC2 for individual leauge? Mr. Hwang: First of all, a schedule for SC2 League hasn't been finalized, but we are looking into the early July for the first season. OSL in SC1 will start its main tournament in 2 weeks, but if issues of sponsoship and players are solved, then this league may not be the final SC1 league. SC1 has been a big role for 10 years and saying farewell to it isn't bad either, but I cannot guarantee you that this will be the final one.
I figure the hybrid might be somthing of the sort. Round 1 BW, round 2 SC2, round 3 BW winners league, round 4 SC2 winners league maybe, round 5 BW, playoffs with some strange formula.
[11:20] Q: Is OGN, currently doing SC1 and (will do) SC2 concurrently, moving to SC2 for individual leauge? Mr. Hwang: First of all, a schedule for SC2 League hasn't been finalized, but we are looking into the early July for the first season. OSL in SC1 will start its main tournament in 2 weeks, but if issues of sponsoship and players are solved, then this league may not be the final SC1 league. SC1 has been a big role for 10 years and saying farewell to it isn't bad either, but I cannot guarantee you that this will be the final one.
On May 02 2012 11:39 OopsOopsBaby wrote: as long theres a free korean stream to ogn sc content. i will be contented.
I don't think that will be legal anymore. They might provide a free International/English stream on own3d.tv like they do for LoL, but I don't think they'll be happy about people re-streaming OGN. HOPEFULLY, they have something like the current thing on YouTube.
[11:20] Q: Is OGN, currently doing SC1 and (will do) SC2 concurrently, moving to SC2 for individual leauge? Mr. Hwang: First of all, a schedule for SC2 League hasn't been finalized, but we are looking into the early July for the first season. OSL in SC1 will start its main tournament in 2 weeks, but if issues of sponsoship and players are solved, then this league may not be the final SC1 league. SC1 has been a big role for 10 years and saying farewell to it isn't bad either, but I cannot guarantee you that this will be the final one.
On May 02 2012 11:42 JOJOsc2news wrote: Here's the official hybrid integration process and solution:
Instead of playing alternating sets of BW and SC2, players will play matches between BW and SC2. We believe this will make for interesting games and bring both communities closer together.
Unit sounds and music will differ for each player and we will implement a new observer UI that allows the spectator or referee to choose between BW or SC2 music.
Our talks about this have all been fluff and rainbows until Dustin Browder insisted on adding at least 4 sets of Destructible Rocks on each tournament map. We gave him a large 4 piece puzzle to color in and as you all can see.
He finished it while we agreed on the terms we presented you today. Thank you! We love us, each other and you! More information soon to come when Dustin is done coloring the huge broken heart that says "BW Fans".
On May 02 2012 11:39 OopsOopsBaby wrote: as long theres a free korean stream to ogn sc content. i will be contented.
I don't think that will be legal anymore. They might provide a free International/English stream on own3d.tv like they do for LoL, but I don't think they'll be happy about people re-streaming OGN. HOPEFULLY, they have something like the current thing on YouTube.
nanashin has been streaming OGN's LoL in korean on TL...
[11:25] Will the Proleague/OSL be SC2 only or SC1 & SC2? Mr. Lee: Officially speaking, Proleague season 2 will begin on 3rd week of May, and it will be both SC1 and SC2. We are still looking into the details of the format that can satisfy both SC1 and SC2 fans. We will probably announce the details by 2nd week of May. For OSL, the new season will begin on October, and it will be a complete transition to SC2. We are still discussing about the requirement of Proleague players. Since it will be both SC1 and 2, it will be hard to change SC1 players to SC2 players in terms of certification. By October, SC1 will vanish and everything will move to SC2. GSTL players is discussing this matter with GomTV and we will discuss with them as well.
[11:25] Will the Proleague/OSL be SC2 only or SC1 & SC2? Mr. Lee: Officially speaking, Proleague season 2 will begin on 3rd week of May, and it will be both SC1 and SC2. We are still looking into the details of the format that can satisfy both SC1 and SC2 fans. We will probably announce the details by 2nd week of May. For OSL, the new season will begin on October, and it will be a complete transition to SC2. We are still discussing about the requirement of Proleague players. Since it will be both SC1 and 2, it will be hard to change SC1 players to SC2 players in terms of certification. By October, SC1 will vanish and everything will move to SC2. GSTL players is discussing this matter with GomTV and we will discuss with them as well.
[11:25] Will the Proleague/OSL be SC2 only or SC1 & SC2? Mr. Lee: Officially speaking, Proleague season 2 will begin on 3rd week of May, and it will be both SC1 and SC2. We are still looking into the details of the format that can satisfy both SC1 and SC2 fans. We will probably announce the details by 2nd week of May. For OSL, the new season will begin on October, and it will be a complete transition to SC2. We are still discussing about the requirement of Proleague players. Since it will be both SC1 and 2, it will be hard to change SC1 players to SC2 players in terms of certification. By October, SC1 will vanish and everything will move to SC2. GSTL players is discussing this matter with GomTV and we will discuss with them as well.
[11:25] Will the Proleague/OSL be SC2 only or SC1 & SC2? Mr. Lee: Officially speaking, Proleague season 2 will begin on 3rd week of May, and it will be both SC1 and SC2. We are still looking into the details of the format that can satisfy both SC1 and SC2 fans. We will probably announce the details by 2nd week of May. For OSL, the new season will begin on October, and it will be a complete transition to SC2. We are still discussing about the requirement of Proleague players. Since it will be both SC1 and 2, it will be hard to change SC1 players to SC2 players in terms of certification. By October, SC1 will vanish and everything will move to SC2. GSTL players is discussing this matter with GomTV and we will discuss with them as well.
Wow, it will be weird seeing a proleague with so many teams. I wonder how they plan to intergrate the SC2 teams. 20 teams sure sound like a lot.
[11:25] Will the Proleague/OSL be SC2 only or SC1 & SC2? Mr. Lee: Officially speaking, Proleague season 2 will begin on 3rd week of May, and it will be both SC1 and SC2. We are still looking into the details of the format that can satisfy both SC1 and SC2 fans. We will probably announce the details by 2nd week of May. For OSL, the new season will begin on October, and it will be a complete transition to SC2. We are still discussing about the requirement of Proleague players. Since it will be both SC1 and 2, it will be hard to change SC1 players to SC2 players in terms of certification. By October, SC1 will vanish and everything will move to SC2. GSTL players is discussing this matter with GomTV and we will discuss with them as well.
Wow, that translation is so different from what we've gathered so far. Didn't they say they are not sure about stopping BW OSL? Here they pretty much are nailing the coffin shut.
EDIT: Unless there was a typo on someone's part and he/she actually meant PL.
[11:25] Will the Proleague/OSL be SC2 only or SC1 & SC2? Mr. Lee: Officially speaking, Proleague season 2 will begin on 3rd week of May, and it will be both SC1 and SC2. We are still looking into the details of the format that can satisfy both SC1 and SC2 fans. We will probably announce the details by 2nd week of May. For OSL, the new season will begin on October, and it will be a complete transition to SC2. We are still discussing about the requirement of Proleague players. Since it will be both SC1 and 2, it will be hard to change SC1 players to SC2 players in terms of certification. By October, SC1 will vanish and everything will move to SC2. GSTL players is discussing this matter with GomTV and we will discuss with them as well.
Wow, that translation is so different from what we've gathered so far. Didn't they say they are not sure about stopping BW OSL? Here they pretty much are nailing the coffin shut.
Well, Mr. Hwang talked about not stopping BW OSL, but Mr. Lee is the one talking about a complete transition.
its not full time,he won't be very good in fact nobody will..
That's why a full round of SC2 then BW would sound good and 2 weeks between rounds to re-ajust to each game could be ok for game quality. Sure taking a month off of each game isn't great, but it's an idea.
[11:28] For OSL, what happens to players not in KeSPA membership? Mr. Lee: For my personal opinion would be having KeSPA, GSTL, and amateurs to compete in OSL. I haven't talked this out with Gretech yet, so no details can be given at the moment.
This is really good news. The fact that they're considering loosening up the OSL requirements to allow amateurs (read: players not on Korean teams).
[11:25] Will the Proleague/OSL be SC2 only or SC1 & SC2? Mr. Lee: Officially speaking, Proleague season 2 will begin on 3rd week of May, and it will be both SC1 and SC2. We are still looking into the details of the format that can satisfy both SC1 and SC2 fans. We will probably announce the details by 2nd week of May. For OSL, the new season will begin on October, and it will be a complete transition to SC2. We are still discussing about the requirement of Proleague players. Since it will be both SC1 and 2, it will be hard to change SC1 players to SC2 players in terms of membership. By October, SC1 will vanish and everything will move to SC2. GSTL players is discussing this matter with GomTV and we will discuss with them as well.
That sounds much more definite that what we've heard.
KeSPA: It's a complicated issue figuring out how to work with GOM teams, we're going to try to work it out by October for the all SC II PL.
Uh huh this is indeed interesting times .. I think It will be fun to stick around to see my oldies smash gom teams . Rivalry and drama .
Exactly! That's the best way to view it. I hope a lot of the BW fans stick around to watch their favorite players battle against the best sc2 players. It's going to be an incredible next couple of years
i'd really like to ask ogn, will korean casts be allowed to be viewed outside of korea, if they plan on focusing english speaking market like gomtv? i hate gomtv for this so much, now only vods, no korean live stream.
@TeamLiquidLIVE KeSPA: Our first objective was to make it so Gom and KeSPA players could play in the same individual leagues. We're working towards that
Just send the horde to the Code A qualifiers plx. Thanks.
its really sad that the only person people know is flash...there are a plethora of amazing players, yes flash is the best but the rest also amazing players.
@TeamLiquidLIVE KeSPA: Our first objective was to make it so Gom and KeSPA players could play in the same individual leagues. We're working towards that
Just send the horde to the Code A qualifiers plx. Thanks.
Yea, what a hilarious response. The only thing preventing KeSPA players playing in "the same individual leagues" as everyone else was KeSPA. What a great job, they worked so hard to overcome that hurdle!
On May 02 2012 11:56 jinorazi wrote: i'd really like to ask ogn, will korean casts be allowed to be viewed outside of korea, if they plan on focusing english speaking market like gomtv? i hate gomtv for this so much, now only vods, no korean live stream.
if you want korean, and know korean, why don't you just go to a korean website and ask? wouldn't that be more accurate, lol
@TeamLiquidLIVE KeSPA: Our first objective was to make it so Gom and KeSPA players could play in the same individual leagues. We're working towards that
Just send the horde to the Code A qualifiers plx. Thanks.
OMG that would be horrible for the people trying to qualify.
"At least I am an X points Master player, time to try out for the GSL" *See's his bracket full of BW pros* "Oh ****"
TeamLiquidLIVE (nice question, random reporter dude) 2 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite TeamLiquidLIVE Q: This announcement ceremony is kinda empty in terms of details. Can you say anything that's more substantial?
its really sad that the only person people know is flash...there are a plethora of amazing players, yes flash is the best but the rest also amazing players.
On May 02 2012 11:56 jinorazi wrote: i'd really like to ask ogn, will korean casts be allowed to be viewed outside of korea, if they plan on focusing english speaking market like gomtv? i hate gomtv for this so much, now only vods, no korean live stream.
if you want korean, and know korean, why don't you just go to a korean website and ask? wouldn't that be more accurate, lol
There are people including myself who don't speak a word of korean and want korean casts.
On May 02 2012 11:55 Corrosive wrote: Q: This announcement ceremony is kinda empty in terms of details. Can you say anything that's more substantial?
haha
Follow up tweet is even better.
Great question. I was worried for the QnA session after this question: What was the process that lead everyone to come to this agreement? I'm glad random reporter dude asked the real question.
@TeamLiquidLIVE KeSPA: Our first objective was to make it so Gom and KeSPA players could play in the same individual leagues. We're working towards that
Just send the horde to the Code A qualifiers plx. Thanks.
OMG that would be horrible for the people trying to qualify.
"At least I am an X points Master player, time to try out for the GSL" *See's his bracket full of BW pros* "Oh ****"
don't worry BW players won't be really good at SC2 because they are playing both games at the same time.
its really sad that the only person people know is flash...there are a plethora of amazing players, yes flash is the best but the rest also amazing players.
Nah, the sad part is a good portion of people who say that have never even watched a single game of Flash's.
On May 02 2012 11:56 jinorazi wrote: i'd really like to ask ogn, will korean casts be allowed to be viewed outside of korea, if they plan on focusing english speaking market like gomtv? i hate gomtv for this so much, now only vods, no korean live stream.
if you want korean, and know korean, why don't you just go to a korean website and ask? wouldn't that be more accurate, lol
There are people including myself who don't speak a word of korean and want korean casts.
Korean casts are for the excitement, energy, and charisma they bring. Also, it helped that we figured out specific words, and in BW they didn't have a localization. I believe one of the coaches said that KeSPA should use the ENG version. Hopefully that means Blizzard will release a ENG KR client or something.
its really sad that the only person people know is flash...there are a plethora of amazing players, yes flash is the best but the rest also amazing players.
Well most SC2 fans only know BW players based on the names BW fans threw out there as ammunition against SC2 during the SC2 vs BW flame wars.
its really sad that the only person people know is flash...there are a plethora of amazing players, yes flash is the best but the rest also amazing players.
Nah, the sad part is a good portion of people who say that have never even watched a single game of Flash's.
its really sad that the only person people know is flash...there are a plethora of amazing players, yes flash is the best but the rest also amazing players.
Meh, once they see Bisu, they won't be able to look away
On May 02 2012 11:56 jinorazi wrote: i'd really like to ask ogn, will korean casts be allowed to be viewed outside of korea, if they plan on focusing english speaking market like gomtv? i hate gomtv for this so much, now only vods, no korean live stream.
if you want korean, and know korean, why don't you just go to a korean website and ask? wouldn't that be more accurate, lol
There are people including myself who don't speak a word of korean and want korean casts.
On May 02 2012 12:01 pdd wrote: Seriously though, why is no one asking whether KeSPA players will be attempting to get into GSL/given seeds?
Wouldn't that ultimately be up to the players themselves? Most of them are not ready though and I feel BW pros especially would want to prepare longer and not rush into something and embarrass themselves.
its really sad that the only person people know is flash...there are a plethora of amazing players, yes flash is the best but the rest also amazing players.
Meh, once they see Bisu, they won't be able to look away
Disgusting. This is not a celebration. It is Kespa, Gom and Blizzard pillaging what remains of the Brood War scene. The idea that a video game could be anything more than an instrument for its maker to profit died today.
its really sad that the only person people know is flash...there are a plethora of amazing players, yes flash is the best but the rest also amazing players.
I know more people than Flash, and I assume a lot of other people do too, but seeing as most BW fans have been hyping up how godly Flash is, and we have the "Unimpressed Flash Meme", it should be pretty obvious that Flash is going to be the biggest draw.
It's the equivalent to someone who is in to Mad Men being excited about a movie with John Slattery or Vincent Kartheiser, and the average person being excited about Don Draper. One is always going to be the bigger draw, but that doesn't mean the others don't have their place or people can't find out about them eventually.
EDIT: That should say Jon Hamm instead of Don Draper. >_<
its really sad that the only person people know is flash...there are a plethora of amazing players, yes flash is the best but the rest also amazing players.
Meh, once they see Bisu, they won't be able to look away
SC2 players aren't nearly as pretty
We have someone called Mini Bisu...
Imitators are never as good as the original. Besides, the Revolutionist invented Forge FFE, imagine what he can do for SC2...
On May 02 2012 12:01 pdd wrote: Seriously though, why is no one asking whether KeSPA players will be attempting to get into GSL/given seeds?
Wouldn't that ultimately be up to the players themselves? Most of them are not ready though and I feel BW pros especially would want to prepare longer and not rush into something and embarrass themselves.
Yeah I guess. But if they had a plan to get into Code A, wouldn't they have already aimed towards getting there? I'd imagine those not participating in OSL would spend more time practising SC2 and would set a goal of getting into Code A. (kinda like Yellow, Hyun, Anyppi/First). I mean no harm trying right? Especially if they weren't top tier players with so much to lose.
Besides a lot of these pros have been practising for awhile now (although not intense practise).
Well, sounds like Kespa, Blizz, Gom and OGN are all gonna be one big happy family. Other than that, not much else to see here haha. I guess the only real details are that this next PL season will be the last one with BW. Makes me sad for all the BW fans, but I'm excited to see what the BW players can do with SC2
its really sad that the only person people know is flash...there are a plethora of amazing players, yes flash is the best but the rest also amazing players.
Meh, once they see Bisu, they won't be able to look away
On May 02 2012 12:04 Pelopidas wrote: Disgusting. This is not a celebration. It is Kespa, Gom and Blizzard pillaging what remains of the Brood War scene. The idea that a video game could be anything more than an instrument for its maker to profit died today.
Brood War wasn't a celebration, it was the pillaging on the Warhammer scene. THINK OF THE CHILDREN!
On May 02 2012 11:56 jinorazi wrote: i'd really like to ask ogn, will korean casts be allowed to be viewed outside of korea, if they plan on focusing english speaking market like gomtv? i hate gomtv for this so much, now only vods, no korean live stream.
if you want korean, and know korean, why don't you just go to a korean website and ask? wouldn't that be more accurate, lol
i looked into it, broadcasting it outside korea is not allowed because of copyright issues...WHY!?
its really sad that the only person people know is flash...there are a plethora of amazing players, yes flash is the best but the rest also amazing players.
Meh, once they see Bisu, they won't be able to look away
SC2 players aren't nearly as pretty
We have someone called Mini Bisu...
Imitators are never as good as the original. Besides, the Revolutionist invented Forge FFE, imagine what he can do for SC2...
On May 02 2012 12:04 Pelopidas wrote: Disgusting. This is not a celebration. It is Kespa, Gom and Blizzard pillaging what remains of the Brood War scene. The idea that a video game could be anything more than an instrument for its maker to profit died today.
I'd say that idea died when an "eSports Association" started holding its players hostage.
That was terrible.....I was expecting way more than what has been announced....
I wanted a guarantee of some form of pro:bw continuation, a competition between the different leagues, more on the broadcast schedule, more on how kespas involvement will change the scheme
Instead we get a half assed meeting telling everyone what they pretty much already knew
its really sad that the only person people know is flash...there are a plethora of amazing players, yes flash is the best but the rest also amazing players.
Meh, once they see Bisu, they won't be able to look away
SC2 players aren't nearly as pretty
We have someone called Mini Bisu...
Imitators are never as good as the original. Besides, the Revolutionist invented Forge FFE, imagine what he can do for SC2...
On May 02 2012 12:09 OptimusYale wrote: That was terrible.....I was expecting way more than what has been announced....
I wanted a guarantee of some form of pro:bw continuation, a competition between the different leagues, more on the broadcast schedule, more on how kespas involvement will change the scheme
Instead we get a half assed meeting telling everyone what they pretty much already knew
A guarantee that pro BW will continue? It may not be what you want to hear, but we do know the fate of BW:
[11:25] Will the Proleague/OSL be SC2 only or SC1 & SC2? Mr. Lee: Officially speaking, Proleague season 2 will begin on 3rd week of May, and it will be both SC1 and SC2. We are still looking into the details of the format that can satisfy both SC1 and SC2 fans. We will probably announce the details by 2nd week of May. For OSL, the new season will begin on October, and it will be a complete transition to SC2. We are still discussing about the requirement of Proleague players. Since it will be both SC1 and 2, it will be hard to change SC1 players to SC2 players in terms of membership. By October, SC1 will vanish and everything will move to SC2. GSTL players is discussing this matter with GomTV and we will discuss with them as well.
its really sad that the only person people know is flash...there are a plethora of amazing players, yes flash is the best but the rest also amazing players.
Meh, once they see Bisu, they won't be able to look away
SC2 players aren't nearly as pretty
We have someone called Mini Bisu...
Imitators are never as good as the original. Besides, the Revolutionist invented Forge FFE, imagine what he can do for SC2...
its really sad that the only person people know is flash...there are a plethora of amazing players, yes flash is the best but the rest also amazing players.
Meh, once they see Bisu, they won't be able to look away
SC2 players aren't nearly as pretty
We have someone called Mini Bisu...
Imitators are never as good as the original. Besides, the Revolutionist invented Forge FFE, imagine what he can do for SC2...
On May 02 2012 11:58 Corrosive wrote: KeSPA: Our first objective was to make it so Gom and KeSPA players could play in the same individual leagues. We're working towards that
its really sad that the only person people know is flash...there are a plethora of amazing players, yes flash is the best but the rest also amazing players.
Meh, once they see Bisu, they won't be able to look away
SC2 players aren't nearly as pretty
We have someone called Mini Bisu...
Imitators are never as good as the original. Besides, the Revolutionist invented Forge FFE, imagine what he can do for SC2...
Kespa's response to the question regarding participation in international tournaments does not bode well. I really want there to continue being epic US and Euro tourneys. Don't know why Kespa has to be so territorial about Korea being the mecca. Korea can still be the mecca even with their players participating in international tourneys.
its really sad that the only person people know is flash...there are a plethora of amazing players, yes flash is the best but the rest also amazing players.
Meh, once they see Bisu, they won't be able to look away
SC2 players aren't nearly as pretty
We have someone called Mini Bisu...
Imitators are never as good as the original. Besides, the Revolutionist invented Forge FFE, imagine what he can do for SC2...
*cough* nal_rA
Dang, I thought he did, or some variation of it?
Even what's usually called the bisu build was made up by Daezang. That being said, he has made innovation in PvZ no doubt about that.
Remember, these are the guys that scrubbed a showmatch at Blizzcon, wouldn't let their guys play in GOM's league, and refused to pay Blizzard for licensing SC1.
On May 02 2012 12:04 Pelopidas wrote: Disgusting. This is not a celebration. It is Kespa, Gom and Blizzard pillaging what remains of the Brood War scene. The idea that a video game could be anything more than an instrument for its maker to profit died today.
I'd say that idea died when an "eSports Association" started holding its players hostage.
Kespa is a non profit, and did a lot of good. Kespa made maps when Blizzard abandoned Broodwar and helped to find sponsors for teams and leagues. Kespa actually changed many stupid rules, and did its best to correct mistakes.
It doesn't matter now anyways, Kespa has commited the ultimate betrayal. They have sold their souls to Blizzard.
On May 02 2012 12:14 KingRajesh wrote: Am I the only one that's not excited about KESPA?
Remember, these are the guys that scrubbed a showmatch at Blizzcon, wouldn't let their guys play in GOM's league, and refused to pay Blizzard for licensing SC1.
If they are all OK with that stuff, why hold a grudge?
On May 02 2012 12:14 KingRajesh wrote: Am I the only one that's not excited about KESPA?
Remember, these are the guys that scrubbed a showmatch at Blizzcon, wouldn't let their guys play in GOM's league, and refused to pay Blizzard for licensing SC1.
Cautiously optimistic... cautiously optimistic.
In all seriousness as long as the balance of power between Blizzard/Kespa/Gom/OGN/ForeignStuff keeps them reasonable, I'm excited.
On May 02 2012 12:09 OptimusYale wrote: That was terrible.....I was expecting way more than what has been announced....
I wanted a guarantee of some form of pro:bw continuation, a competition between the different leagues, more on the broadcast schedule, more on how kespas involvement will change the scheme
Instead we get a half assed meeting telling everyone what they pretty much already knew
A guarantee that pro BW will continue? It may not be what you want to hear, but we do know the fate of BW:
[11:25] Will the Proleague/OSL be SC2 only or SC1 & SC2? Mr. Lee: Officially speaking, Proleague season 2 will begin on 3rd week of May, and it will be both SC1 and SC2. We are still looking into the details of the format that can satisfy both SC1 and SC2 fans. We will probably announce the details by 2nd week of May. For OSL, the new season will begin on October, and it will be a complete transition to SC2. We are still discussing about the requirement of Proleague players. Since it will be both SC1 and 2, it will be hard to change SC1 players to SC2 players in terms of membership. By October, SC1 will vanish and everything will move to SC2. GSTL players is discussing this matter with GomTV and we will discuss with them as well.
Way to go, Kespa. It's with disgust that I received the news that this corporation is now hitting with the shovel the game that made e-sports popular in Korea in the first place.
On May 02 2012 12:14 KingRajesh wrote: Am I the only one that's not excited about KESPA?
Remember, these are the guys that scrubbed a showmatch at Blizzcon, wouldn't let their guys play in GOM's league, and refused to pay Blizzard for licensing SC1.
With those either false or exaggerated statements, you are the only one.
its really sad that the only person people know is flash...there are a plethora of amazing players, yes flash is the best but the rest also amazing players.
Meh, once they see Bisu, they won't be able to look away
SC2 players aren't nearly as pretty
We have someone called Mini Bisu...
Imitators are never as good as the original. Besides, the Revolutionist invented Forge FFE, imagine what he can do for SC2...
He did not, so I'd guess not much then ?
Wow. Didn't think the whole "pylon at natural means Bisu build" misinformation is still around. Someone must've dug up the old English commentaries on youtube.
Paul Sams: As I have said many times before, us four organizations will work on to the globalizaiton of the eSports. Each representatives of the organization will support this as well. Blizzard will support players through Battlenet World Championship. players will be qualified through 19 naitonal championships, and the champion wil lbe decided in the global championship. We plan to find the best of the best in Battlenet-supported SC2, WoW, and Dota.
Paul Sams: As I have said many times before, us four organizations will work on to the globalizaiton of the eSports. Each representatives of the organization will support this as well. Blizzard will support players through Battlenet World Championship. players will be qualified through 19 naitonal championships, and the champion wil lbe decided in the global championship. We plan to find the best of the best in Battlenet-supported SC2, WoW, and Dota.
Mr. Oh: The ultimate purpose of transitioning Proleague to SC2 is for globalization. ... We are already in talk with many leagues in the world and already initiating some. KeSPA-affiliated players will attend international tournaments.
Paul Sams: As I have said many times before, us four organizations will work on to the globalizaiton of the eSports. Each representatives of the organization will support this as well. Blizzard will support players through Battlenet World Championship. players will be qualified through 19 naitonal championships, and the champion wil lbe decided in the global championship. We plan to find the best of the best in Battlenet-supported SC2, WoW, and Dota.
What the DotA?
Blizzard DOTA I guess.
Competitive Blizzard DotA? I thought they were designing it to not be for ESPORTS? LoL and DotA2 will be impossibly difficult competitors.
Paul Sams: As I have said many times before, us four organizations will work on to the globalizaiton of the eSports. Each representatives of the organization will support this as well. Blizzard will support players through Battlenet World Championship. players will be qualified through 19 naitonal championships, and the champion wil lbe decided in the global championship. We plan to find the best of the best in Battlenet-supported SC2, WoW, and Dota.
What the DotA?
Blizzzzzzzzzzzzzard DOTA.
Or maybe Dota1, haha would be really a slap in the face for Valve XD.
Mr. Oh: The ultimate purpose of transitioning Proleague to SC2 is for globalization. ... We are already in talk with many leagues in the world and already initiating some. KeSPA-affiliated players will attend international tournaments.
Sounds like this has "MLG" written all over it.
Yeaop guess that's the MLG announcement that Lee was hinting about a few days ago, like we thought.
On May 02 2012 12:14 KingRajesh wrote: Am I the only one that's not excited about KESPA?
Remember, these are the guys that scrubbed a showmatch at Blizzcon, wouldn't let their guys play in GOM's league, and refused to pay Blizzard for licensing SC1.
With those either false or exaggerated statements, you are the only one.
They are all true... the only debatable one is the first, but it's definitely very fishy.
On May 02 2012 12:14 KingRajesh wrote: Am I the only one that's not excited about KESPA?
Remember, these are the guys that scrubbed a showmatch at Blizzcon, wouldn't let their guys play in GOM's league, and refused to pay Blizzard for licensing SC1.
With those either false or exaggerated statements, you are the only one.
I'm relatively new to the scene, compared to some of the old hats on this forum. Can someone explain what KeSPA brings to the table in this agreement, other than their players? Obviously the players are a big deal, but if the only leverage KeSPA has over the BW pros is by allowing them to play in the BW scene, and that scene is now going away, what does KeSPA have to offer to Blizzard and GOM? Are the players really that dedicated to staying with KeSPA (because KeSPA does something good for them)?
On May 02 2012 12:14 KingRajesh wrote: Am I the only one that's not excited about KESPA?
Remember, these are the guys that scrubbed a showmatch at Blizzcon, wouldn't let their guys play in GOM's league, and refused to pay Blizzard for licensing SC1.
With those either false or exaggerated statements, you are the only one.
I'm relatively new to the scene, compared to some of the old hats on this forum. Can someone explain what KeSPA brings to the table in this agreement, other than their players? Obviously the players are a big deal, but if the only leverage KeSPA has over the BW pros is by allowing them to play in the BW scene, and that scene is now going away, what does KeSPA have to offer to Blizzard and GOM? Are the players really that dedicated to staying with KeSPA (because KeSPA does something good for them)?
Thanks, TL! Great coverage. You must construct additional batteries for your recorder, though.
Enjoy the food, you have earned it.
When entertainment companies agree to make more money together, we viewers can not help but win. How many of us have installed gomplayer now? Shit, gom has hundreds of my earned dollars. KeSPA could learn a thing or two from them. International Starcraft, international e-sports FTW!
In all honesty, how does this help SC2? Does this mean that SC2 gets the attention and sponsorship in Korea that was taken by BW and SC2 teams can finally feel like they aren't beggars selling themselves off to the highest foreign bidder? While it's cool to see another pro SC2 league with OGN, I really don't see how KESPA helps other than signalling the end of BW and leaving all those fans and money with no where to go but SC2.
On May 02 2012 12:14 KingRajesh wrote: Am I the only one that's not excited about KESPA?
Remember, these are the guys that scrubbed a showmatch at Blizzcon, wouldn't let their guys play in GOM's league, and refused to pay Blizzard for licensing SC1.
With those either false or exaggerated statements, you are the only one.
I'm relatively new to the scene, compared to some of the old hats on this forum. Can someone explain what KeSPA brings to the table in this agreement, other than their players? Obviously the players are a big deal, but if the only leverage KeSPA has over the BW pros is by allowing them to play in the BW scene, and that scene is now going away, what does KeSPA have to offer to Blizzard and GOM? Are the players really that dedicated to staying with KeSPA (because KeSPA does something good for them)?
Team infrastructure and big sponsors.
And experience, especially experience.
On May 02 2012 12:26 Emporio wrote: In all honesty, how does this help SC2? Does this mean that SC2 gets the attention and sponsorship in Korea that was taken by BW and SC2 teams can finally feel like they aren't beggars selling themselves off to the highest foreign bidder? While it's cool to see another pro SC2 league with OGN, I really don't see how KESPA helps other than signalling the end of BW and leaving all those fans and money with no where to go but SC2.
Almost no one in Korea gave a shit about SC2 scene because they had the BW, much more mature and well rounded. Having KeSPA, now SC2 has the hopes of getting some attention from the massive BW crowds, and of course KeSPA has experience to handle the teams.
However it's kinda late, since LoL is already bigger in Korea.
On May 02 2012 12:14 KingRajesh wrote: Am I the only one that's not excited about KESPA?
Remember, these are the guys that scrubbed a showmatch at Blizzcon, wouldn't let their guys play in GOM's league, and refused to pay Blizzard for licensing SC1.
With those either false or exaggerated statements, you are the only one.
They are all true... the only debatable one is the first, but it's definitely very fishy.
On May 02 2012 12:14 KingRajesh wrote: Am I the only one that's not excited about KESPA?
Remember, these are the guys that scrubbed a showmatch at Blizzcon, wouldn't let their guys play in GOM's league, and refused to pay Blizzard for licensing SC1.
With those either false or exaggerated statements, you are the only one.
They are all true... the only debatable one is the first, but it's definitely very fishy.
Err, it was the teams that didn't want to play in GOM (3 leagues and PL is just way too much and was spreading players way too thin to point where players couldn't even practice. Example of this was Iris vs Effort in GOM where Iris didn't practice for PL and spent his time practicing to beat Effort while Effort was all about the other stuff and not GOM so Effort lost.) and even then there were still teams that did want to play in GOM ie Oz and Hite but since there were only like 4-5 teams, it stopped.
Waxangel was doing the TL Live Updates? Great job, it was quite interesting! Much appreciated, some pictures would be cool, not sure if it was permitted.
On May 02 2012 12:32 MrCash wrote: Waxangel was doing the TL Live Updates? Great job, it was quite interesting! Much appreciated, some pictures would be cool, not sure if it was permitted.
On May 02 2012 12:14 KingRajesh wrote: Am I the only one that's not excited about KESPA?
Remember, these are the guys that scrubbed a showmatch at Blizzcon, wouldn't let their guys play in GOM's league, and refused to pay Blizzard for licensing SC1.
With those either false or exaggerated statements, you are the only one.
They are all true... the only debatable one is the first, but it's definitely very fishy.
Those statements greatly oversimplify things.
They oversimplify nothing. They're all true statements that you can look up anywhere, even on TL.
On May 02 2012 12:14 KingRajesh wrote: Am I the only one that's not excited about KESPA?
Remember, these are the guys that scrubbed a showmatch at Blizzcon, wouldn't let their guys play in GOM's league, and refused to pay Blizzard for licensing SC1.
With those either false or exaggerated statements, you are the only one.
They are all true... the only debatable one is the first, but it's definitely very fishy.
Those statements greatly oversimplify things.
They oversimplify nothing. They're all true statements that you can look up anywhere, even on TL.
they are true, but you don't seem to understand the reson behind all these events especially the gom and licensing one....you can look those up in TL too.
On May 02 2012 12:14 KingRajesh wrote: Am I the only one that's not excited about KESPA?
Remember, these are the guys that scrubbed a showmatch at Blizzcon, wouldn't let their guys play in GOM's league, and refused to pay Blizzard for licensing SC1.
With those either false or exaggerated statements, you are the only one.
They are all true... the only debatable one is the first, but it's definitely very fishy.
Those statements greatly oversimplify things.
They oversimplify nothing. They're all true statements that you can look up anywhere, even on TL.
1. wasn't at blizzcon, but yes that happened 2. is an oversimplification and arguably a half truth 3. is an oversimplification
On May 02 2012 12:14 KingRajesh wrote: Am I the only one that's not excited about KESPA?
Remember, these are the guys that scrubbed a showmatch at Blizzcon, wouldn't let their guys play in GOM's league, and refused to pay Blizzard for licensing SC1.
With those either false or exaggerated statements, you are the only one.
They are all true... the only debatable one is the first, but it's definitely very fishy.
Those statements greatly oversimplify things.
They oversimplify nothing. They're all true statements that you can look up anywhere, even on TL.
they are true, but you don't seem to understand the reson behind all these events especially the gom and licensing one....you can look those up in TL too.
Man, the reasoning doesn't matter. They did it. They'd probably do it again because KESPA only cares about KESPA.
On May 02 2012 12:14 KingRajesh wrote: Am I the only one that's not excited about KESPA?
Remember, these are the guys that scrubbed a showmatch at Blizzcon, wouldn't let their guys play in GOM's league, and refused to pay Blizzard for licensing SC1.
With those either false or exaggerated statements, you are the only one.
They are all true... the only debatable one is the first, but it's definitely very fishy.
Those statements greatly oversimplify things.
They oversimplify nothing. They're all true statements that you can look up anywhere, even on TL.
they are true, but you don't seem to understand the reson behind all these events especially the gom and licensing one....you can look those up in TL too.
Man, the reasoning doesn't matter. They did it. They'd probably do it again because KESPA only cares about KESPA.
if the reasoning does not matter then your credibility in this argument lacks.
In theory all they would have to do is not outbid the whole company just outbid what they are willing to spend on starcraft which is far less than 18.7 billion.
In theory all they would have to do is not outbid the whole company just outbid what they are willing to spend on starcraft which is far less than 18.7 billion.
Yeah.. That's not going to happen. Do you know how much Flash's salary is?
I thought in Korean culture it wasn't so OK to wear headwear in classrooms, and other semi-formal gatherings? Or is that what Nestea's hair looks like?
On May 02 2012 13:08 Dontkillme wrote: Please please please please please :D If this deal goes through SCII will be so much bigger throughout the globe :D
Yes, people who have no clue who BW players are will flock to SCII. Esports will finally be here, and as Starcraft players we will become the new royalty.
Hmmm, well it seems like an sc2/bw league is in order for at least a season which to me the concept has always sounded silly. Thankfully it would appear as if they aren't going to be alternating games... but even still i'm not sure why this si nessicary for a season and can see a format like this having some negative unforseen circumstances.
Also, KeSPA seemed really abrasive and almost a bit cold in light of some of GOM's responses.
On May 02 2012 13:35 Kergy wrote: The Dong wasn't there?
Jaedong or DongRaeGu? DRG is there
Which begs the question, who represented Team 8 at the conference? Even Airforce Ace and Zenex had player representatives even though they weren't on the "confirmed list."
[10:20] Confirmed list of players attending: SC1: Flash (KT), Leta (CJ), Calm (STX), Stork (Samsung), Bisu (SKT), ZerO (Woongjin) SC2: Nestea (LG-IM), Leenock (FXO), DRG (MVP), July (ST), BoxeR (SlayerS)
Dunno about TSL or oGs. I'm not sure if I saw them in the photos released so far.
On May 02 2012 13:44 tsuxiit wrote: Does no one remember when KeSPA called up fricking NaDa in the middle of his showmatch with TLO and told him he couldn't play it?
Or when they disqualified a player for not typing the appropriate number of p's when he wanted to pause the game?
On May 02 2012 13:44 tsuxiit wrote: Does no one remember when KeSPA called up fricking NaDa in the middle of his showmatch with TLO and told him he couldn't play it?
Or when they disqualified a player for not typing the appropriate number of p's when he wanted to pause the game?
I'll never understand KeSPA diehards.
Korean 'esports' would be a bunch of kids wasting their lives in PC bangs if it wasn't for Kespa.
At least they have consistency, no charity foreigner seeds or bs like that.
In other news, still veeeeerry ambiguous and kind of sad about the death of BW. Still, as long as I've got Stork and KHAN in SC2, I'll be okay.
There is someone named Khan in BW? Funny stuff.
I dare you say shit 'bout my team :<
KHANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN Is it a team or a player? I have payed a bit of attention to BW over the years but not enough to know the lesser knowns too well.
In other news, still veeeeerry ambiguous and kind of sad about the death of BW. Still, as long as I've got Stork and KHAN in SC2, I'll be okay.
There is someone named Khan in BW? Funny stuff.
I dare you say shit 'bout my team :<
KHANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN Is it a team or a player? I have payed a bit of attention to BW over the years but not enough to know the lesser knowns too well.
On May 02 2012 13:44 tsuxiit wrote: Does no one remember when KeSPA called up fricking NaDa in the middle of his showmatch with TLO and told him he couldn't play it?
Or when they disqualified a player for not typing the appropriate number of p's when he wanted to pause the game?
I'll never understand KeSPA diehards.
Korean 'esports' would be a bunch of kids wasting their lives in PC bangs if it wasn't for Kespa.
At least they have consistency, no charity foreigner seeds or bs like that.
hahahah well said.
I hope KeSPA can bring more balanced maps especially when it comes to the economy, I'm tired of the current deathball vs deathball gameplay Bnet is forcing.
I didn't like the idea of destroying the competitive BW scene at first but now I'm crossing my fingers so this is what really makes my beloved BW community take a step ahead since now people seem to be more focused on looks instead of gameplay.
lol at the comments about EG being able to purchase Flash How can a company such as EG outbid a telecom giant with billions of dollars in revenue? lol
The boxer question was baller and it sucks that BW will be dead in October and while Bisu never won an OSL, he still finished the last BW only proleague in the best way possible GOING TO MISS YOU BW
On May 02 2012 13:39 eviltomahawk wrote: Which begs the question, who represented Team 8 at the conference? Even Airforce Ace and Zenex had player representatives even though they weren't on the "confirmed list."
I don't know how T8's going to handle the transition. Small lineup, they're having a hard enough time with BW only, now they have to practice two games at the same time? Since the Ace coach and Piano attended, at least we know that Ace is still going to be there (hopefully).
On May 02 2012 13:39 eviltomahawk wrote: Which begs the question, who represented Team 8 at the conference? Even Airforce Ace and Zenex had player representatives even though they weren't on the "confirmed list."
I don't know how T8's going to handle the transition. Small lineup, they're having a hard enough time with BW only, now they have to practice two games at the same time? Since the Ace coach and Piano attended, at least we know that Ace is still going to be there (hopefully).
Maybe they could pick up a few unsigned players? I'm sure plenty of people would jump at the chance just to be in a team with those players! Maybe Kespa could ad some foreigners to the team too, as an act to show they are serious about making SC2 bigger than just Korea?
On May 02 2012 13:52 Soft`Soap wrote: lol at the comments about EG being able to purchase Flash How can a company such as EG outbid a telecom giant with billions of dollars in revenue? lol
SC2 is both better and inferior to BW in many ways, but I believe SC2 is and how it's played depends on what each individual makes of it That said. I can't wait for players like Jaedong, Bisu and Flash to come over and show us their vision of how it should be played.
On May 02 2012 14:05 Bayyne wrote: I'm so excited to see this. The best of the best will finally come in, and we will all see if the theories floating around will come true.
On May 02 2012 13:44 tsuxiit wrote: Does no one remember when KeSPA called up fricking NaDa in the middle of his showmatch with TLO and told him he couldn't play it?
Or when they disqualified a player for not typing the appropriate number of p's when he wanted to pause the game?
I'll never understand KeSPA diehards.
Korean 'esports' would be a bunch of kids wasting their lives in PC bangs if it wasn't for Kespa.
At least they have consistency, no charity foreigner seeds or bs like that.
hahahah well said.
I hope KeSPA can bring more balanced maps especially when it comes to the economy, I'm tired of the current deathball vs deathball gameplay Bnet is forcing.
I didn't like the idea of destroying the competitive BW scene at first but now I'm crossing my fingers so this is what really makes my beloved BW community take a step ahead since now people seem to be more focused on looks instead of gameplay.
TBLS HWAITING!
That deathball problem is can hardly be solved through maps. The problem is the metagame. If the third is easy the game will become some 3-base turtle slugfest with bling all ins every other game. Is it too hard its not gona be taken at all. FRB is another solution if executed correctly. But I strongly doubt you can do much about deathballs by mapdesign.
On May 02 2012 14:12 Ghostface_Killa wrote: SC2 is both better and inferior to BW in many ways, but I believe SC2 is and how it's played depends on what each individual makes of it That said. I can't wait for players like Jaedong, Bisu and Flash to come over and show us their vision of how it should be played.
Who knows about Jaedong. That man is a big mistery at the moment....
On May 02 2012 12:30 windsupernova wrote: Haha... so foreign teams now you are the poor teams.
Whatch u gonna do when they're coming for you!?
EG.Flash
(they aren't that poor!)
Of all the places in the United States, EG chose Arizona desert where housing and rents are cheaper than candy. 50k would buy you a mansion with a swimming pool there. Yes, EG is POOR.
I am really scared KesPA won't be as friendly to foreigners. Imagine if they fire tastosis...or have no english commentators... what the hell are we going to do?
On May 02 2012 14:30 neoghaleon55 wrote: I am really scared KesPA won't be as friendly to foreigners. Imagine if they fire tastosis...or have no english commentators... what the hell are we going to do?
they said it themselves they are preping for foreign audiences.
On May 02 2012 14:30 neoghaleon55 wrote: I am really scared KesPA won't be as friendly to foreigners. Imagine if they fire tastosis...or have no english commentators... what the hell are we going to do?
Oh dear, so misinformed...It's going to be okay trust me.
On May 02 2012 14:30 neoghaleon55 wrote: I am really scared KesPA won't be as friendly to foreigners. Imagine if they fire tastosis...or have no english commentators... what the hell are we going to do?
It's already been said they will have English casting.
On May 02 2012 13:39 eviltomahawk wrote: Which begs the question, who represented Team 8 at the conference? Even Airforce Ace and Zenex had player representatives even though they weren't on the "confirmed list."
I don't know how T8's going to handle the transition. Small lineup, they're having a hard enough time with BW only, now they have to practice two games at the same time? Since the Ace coach and Piano attended, at least we know that Ace is still going to be there (hopefully).
Maybe they could pick up a few unsigned players? I'm sure plenty of people would jump at the chance just to be in a team with those players! Maybe Kespa could ad some foreigners to the team too, as an act to show they are serious about making SC2 bigger than just Korea?
Or they are going to buy out ZeNex for their SC2 squad
This is the beginning of the end for foreign starcraft 2. Time to downgrade to amateur. There is no way to keep up with the skill level and history is repeating itself.
On May 02 2012 14:25 bbrian wrote: Yes! Brood War is gone! I understand it's a great game but why insult SC2 players? You BW elitists think your so cool?
I've been staring at an empty text box for at least five minutes trying to figure out what to say to this. Any ideas?
On May 02 2012 14:30 neoghaleon55 wrote: I am really scared KesPA won't be as friendly to foreigners. Imagine if they fire tastosis...or have no english commentators... what the hell are we going to do?
The skill gap between foreigners and Koreans wouldn't be that big in SC2, since there were not that many BW tournaments back then.
Well, BW pros are pretty much going to be AT LEAST on par with the current sc2 pro due to infrastructure and team support. And since the BW teams have more financial power, I could see them sending a lot of their players over to foreign events. Especially at the beginning because they want to expose their players to the international sc2 fanbase that didn't know much about BW. So you are going to see 2-3x more koreans at foreign events once Kespa feels comfortable sending them over.
On May 02 2012 15:01 robopork wrote: I've been staring at an empty text box for at least five minutes trying to figure out what to say to this. Any ideas?
Wow, if you just wasted 5 minutes of your time thinking about this, then I guess he's a happy (successful) troll. Just ignore it.
On topic I am eagerly waiting for someone to summarize the conference, just got bits and pieces here and there but still pretty confused about the actual details and implications.
On May 02 2012 14:25 bbrian wrote: Yes! Brood War is gone! I understand it's a great game but why insult SC2 players? You BW elitists think your so cool?
I've been staring at an empty text box for at least five minutes trying to figure out what to say to this. Any ideas?
"Do not take your frustration out on a very respected game with an enourmous history and wish it death just because the path that SC2 has taken does not appeal to somebody with a heavy BW background, no matter how vocal they may be about it. BW doesn't deserve death."
On May 02 2012 14:25 bbrian wrote: Yes! Brood War is gone! I understand it's a great game but why insult SC2 players? You BW elitists think your so cool?
I've been staring at an empty text box for at least five minutes trying to figure out what to say to this. Any ideas?
Maybe the mods will righteously brandish the ban hammer. Gotta be a huge douche to insult the dead at a funeral.
The skill gap between foreigners and Koreans wouldn't be that big in SC2, since there were not that many BW tournaments back then.
Well, BW pros are pretty much going to be AT LEAST on par with the current sc2 pro due to infrastructure and team support. And since the BW teams have more financial power, I could see them sending a lot of their players over to foreign events. Especially at the beginning because they want to expose their players to the international sc2 fanbase that didn't know much about BW. So you are going to see 2-3x more koreans at foreign events once Kespa feels comfortable sending them over.
They won't be going to foreign events once Proleague starts. That's about 2 matches per week every week that they have to prepare for and attend.
On May 02 2012 14:25 bbrian wrote: Yes! Brood War is gone! I understand it's a great game but why insult SC2 players? You BW elitists think your so cool?
I've been staring at an empty text box for at least five minutes trying to figure out what to say to this. Any ideas?
He is kind of right. I have loved pro BW for over a decade, yet I have no reason to think its not passed its prime and that everything else sucks including the same game with a 2 next to it. Not sure I'm THAT happy about it finishing but hey shit happens, and finally we can see all the great BW pros, both passed and current battle it out on a new playing field. It's going to be epic.
The skill gap between foreigners and Koreans wouldn't be that big in SC2, since there were not that many BW tournaments back then.
Well, BW pros are pretty much going to be AT LEAST on par with the current sc2 pro due to infrastructure and team support. And since the BW teams have more financial power, I could see them sending a lot of their players over to foreign events. Especially at the beginning because they want to expose their players to the international sc2 fanbase that didn't know much about BW. So you are going to see 2-3x more koreans at foreign events once Kespa feels comfortable sending them over.
They won't be going to foreign events once Proleague starts. That's about 2 matches per week every week that they have to prepare for and attend.
Hard to say how it'll end up being structured. I'm fairly sure things like that will be taken into consideration.
Gotta be a huge douche to insult the dead at a funeral.
To be far, it is not like the BW fans are just 'mourning' BW. They are also very aggressive about telling everyone that sc2 sucks and is for noobs. I think that both sides have their 'aggressive' fans and it is just going to take time to have it settle down. Of course, it would be better if both sides are able to see where the other side is coming from but it is the internet, one 'out of line' comment from an individual poster can get things escalated very quickly.
On May 02 2012 15:10 vthree wrote: So you are going to see 2-3x more koreans at foreign events once Kespa feels comfortable sending them over.
I don't know. The only big foreign events, imo, are IPL and MLG. MLG has that stuff where they have qualifiers for each region, and the top players from those regions all go to the tournament. That is pretty diminishing to game quality if roughly 1/3 of the players are Koreans. It also reduces the possible exposure of fresh faces from Korea.
Honestly, it really irritates me that MLG does that stuff. I don't care who is playing. I just want to see great games. Watching either poor games, or players being noticeably outclassed, is not fun.
They won't be going to foreign events once Proleague starts. That's about 2 matches per week every week that they have to prepare for and attend.
I think one of the primary reasons for the move is that sponsors want more international exposure. So I think they will find some way to at least send some players over for the big events.
MLG has that stuff where they have qualifiers for each region, and the top players from those regions all go to the tournament.
That is only for arenas. All players are allowed to try to qualify at the championships via open brackets. You don't see as many sc2 pros doing this now due to the cost and the difficulty of trying to make a run from the open brackets. But with sponsors for BW, the cost is probably not as prohibitive.
the thing im afraid of is the huge influx of koreans into foreign tournament, that could kill the foreign scene as it will restrict the growth of foreign talent
So here we have our elephant. It's sad day for BW, but great for players, community and game itself (I mean SC2). Being fan of both products it's strange moment, but I hope everything will be good and competition will be even harder now. Looking forward to some great games
On May 02 2012 14:25 bbrian wrote: Yes! Brood War is gone! I understand it's a great game but why insult SC2 players? You BW elitists think your so cool?
I've been staring at an empty text box for at least five minutes trying to figure out what to say to this. Any ideas?
Let's just hope the hammer comes out. Obvious troll is obvious with 9 posts. His last post, "Can't wait to see Brood War disappear!" Way to kick something while it's having its last breath.
On May 02 2012 15:32 Rellit wrote: the thing im afraid of is the huge influx of koreans into foreign tournament, that could kill the foreign scene as it will restrict the growth of foreign talent
look at what is happening now, not a single foreigner could reach Jinro's high (semifinals) in the GSL, foreigners are not as good as koreans because you simply don't have the competition koreans have (they practically win what equals to foreigners finals to get near to qualify to Code A). Also take a look at what foreigner players get more exposure and compare their e-fame/e-relevance to their results (i.e. IdrA, Destiny, most of the EG roster, etc). The foreigner community is mainly drived by hype instead of results.
It is assured that Koreans will dominate SC2 even harder now that BW is going away and all the focus will be on one game.
hm not sure what to think of the live commentary... doesn't seem to provide any useful information at all tbh... got a a bit hyped by the announcement of this conference, but am still clueless about what's actually being said there!
I think this going to be bad in many ways for SC2. Proleague really doesn't fit into the current world of MLGs, IPLs and Dreamhacks. If Kespa players aren't allowed to compete internationally at will the whole scene will suffer.
Plus there's the whole "free agency" BS. (A rule designed to stop players from switching teams when their contract ends.) Unless they scrap that it will be extremely hard to attract foreign players to Kespa teams. I don't see Kespa addressing either of these issues. I'm thinking in their mind SC2 is going to be like BW except with English commentary and more international viewers.
if they arent allowed to compete internationally the scene will get broken pretty hard. Much SC2 koreans will play "for" Kespa then since they will guarantee way more money
On May 02 2012 15:32 Rellit wrote: the thing im afraid of is the huge influx of koreans into foreign tournament, that could kill the foreign scene as it will restrict the growth of foreign talent
Trust me, you don't have to worry about the foreign scene suffering. The masses in the foreign scene have demonstrated time and again with their wallets and viewership that they primarily desire to see their favorite personalities play (especially against Koreans), regardless of skill level (i.e. Idra stream 10k+ viewers / destiny ).
This may seem odd to some diehard fans here who are in love with the Korean scene, but adding a bunch more Korean Pro's into the mix will probably only encourage tournaments to add even more foreigners (or at minimum maintain the status quo). What better storyline for an event than to pit a roster of underdog, beloved foreigner personalities against top level ex brood-war pros? Who isn't dying to see those games?
Just remember this even as SC2 is a great game, at the pro level it's all about money and viewership. And this new formula of foreigner + korean mix is what most people want to watch right now. Why do you think GSL is clamouring to offer foreigners Code A/S seeds constantly, even when said foreigners may not "deserve" those seeds? The formula's not going away when BW merges, it's only going to get stronger.
P.S. And on Kespa restricting players from the foreign scene - not gonna happen. Blizzard has control now with SC2, and even if for some psychotic reason they decided to allow the Koreans to excercise that kind of power, the Korean scene would be shooting themselves in the foot by not taking advantage of a vast, lucrative foreign market. This is a completely different situation than Brood War, which barely had any foreign scene at all worth courting.
Dunno if this has been asked yet..but if they plan on making full transition + kespa/gom union + make KR the main esport thingy of the world, will they still send players to foreign competitions? or will it become an island game again? (as if it wasn't already).
As in...will Kr stay 90% of the time in Kr, or will they also go to foreign tournamets as oftenly as they are doing now? Omg can u imagine Flash or Jaedong at an MLG vs Nestea, DRG, MC ...god...
Also a small spoiler like "Why October, are u waiting for HoTS" ? this way we get an indirect release date :D
Pretty empty on informations though ... This conference didnt tell me anything new though Oô
Hope the fullscript has new informations ...
Who the hell didn't knew already that: 1) BW will die next season 2) Nearly all BW S-Class Players going to switch 3) OGN,GomTV,Blizz,Kespa and stuff are cooperating now
???
Just a summary of news which were published 3 weeks ago =/
It seems good news for everyone. Hints of BW OSL remaining, and plans of the full SC2 PL in October. Not that everyone is happy with this whole movement, but I mean just in terms of the new information/hints we've obtained from this specific conference.
As for the October date, I don't think it is related to HotS. Proleague isn't like the GSL where there's basically a month long tournament if that is what is making you think that it being in October means they're "waiting." It's more like it's just the natural date for the following season to be scheduled.
I can't wait till late May to see how this stuff turns out. An adventure is ahead of us!
A: We don't know if this is the last BW OSL or not, it all depends on a lot of conditions.
Best line of the day. BW OSL is not dead... yet.
We can always pray....
We all so how bad were the ODT games. Nobody wants to sponsor a tournament players don't even train for. Hopefully now that things are getting serious in the Ro16, they will stop playing SC2 for a while.
The last PL final was amazing, I hope the last OSL will be as well, so it can rest in peace.
A: We don't know if this is the last BW OSL or not, it all depends on a lot of conditions.
Best line of the day. BW OSL is not dead... yet.
We can always pray....
We all so how bad were the ODT games. Nobody wants to sponsor a tournament players don't even train for. Hopefully now that things are getting serious in the Ro16, they will stop playing SC2 for a while.
The last PL final was amazing, I hope the last OSL will be as well, so it can rest in peace.
you know how I want this OSL to end? with a royal roader.
A: We don't know if this is the last BW OSL or not, it all depends on a lot of conditions.
Best line of the day. BW OSL is not dead... yet.
We can always pray....
Seeing as it was stated that BW is going to disappear completely from PL by October, I'm not holding my breath. Why would they bother with an OSL for a game that they're not going to play anymore? As a Legacy League maybe? With no professional playing BW regularly anymore that would just be awful to watch. Maybe a legacy showmatch or even showmatches, but after the mixed PL ends I can't see why they would dedicate a professional individual league to BW anymore.
On May 02 2012 16:38 Befree wrote: It seems good news for everyone. Hints of BW OSL remaining, and plans of the full SC2 PL in October. Not that everyone is happy with this whole movement, but I mean just in terms of the new information/hints we've obtained from this specific conference.
As for the October date, I don't think it is related to HotS. Proleague isn't like the GSL where there's basically a month long tournament if that is what is making you think that it being in October means they're "waiting." It's more like it's just the natural date for the following season to be scheduled.
I can't wait till late May to see how this stuff turns out. An adventure is ahead of us!
Yea i overlooked that. Thx for clarifing my question about HoTS and October fulltransition. Nice insight is always nice!
One thing is 101% sure. Things will change dramatically this year! Just hope we will see some of the big BW names in foreign SC2 competitions like MLG, IPL and so on.
A: We don't know if this is the last BW OSL or not, it all depends on a lot of conditions.
Best line of the day. BW OSL is not dead... yet.
We can always pray....
We all so how bad were the ODT games. Nobody wants to sponsor a tournament players don't even train for. Hopefully now that things are getting serious in the Ro16, they will stop playing SC2 for a while.
The last PL final was amazing, I hope the last OSL will be as well, so it can rest in peace.
you know how I want this OSL to end? with a royal roader.
That's what I wanted at the beginning too, but for example if Mini wins the OSL, we will think a new Protoss revolution is born only to realize pro BW is dead and that Mini is forced to switch to SC2.
Actually I wanted Bisu to get one, or JD to get a 4th OSL title. Not gonna happen. I guess I'll cheer for Stork and against Shine now.
A: We don't know if this is the last BW OSL or not, it all depends on a lot of conditions.
Best line of the day. BW OSL is not dead... yet.
We can always pray....
We all so how bad were the ODT games. Nobody wants to sponsor a tournament players don't even train for. Hopefully now that things are getting serious in the Ro16, they will stop playing SC2 for a while.
The last PL final was amazing, I hope the last OSL will be as well, so it can rest in peace.
you know how I want this OSL to end? with a royal roader.
That's what I wanted at the beginning too, but for example if Mini wins the OSL, we will think a new Protoss revolution is born only to realize pro BW is dead and that Mini is forced to switch to SC2.
Actually I wanted Bisu to get one, or JD to get a 4th OSL title. Not gonna happen. I guess I'll cheer for Stork and against Shine now.
I know, but a royal roader is basically the strongest story to an OSL, thats all.
seems to be fairly contradicting, one one hand they said that they don't know if it's the last BW OSL and then straight after they say that it will be dead within a season? Can anyone clarify what they meant?
I almost don't even want to finish watching this last OSL. I will, sort of like being there for a family member when they die, but I won't like it.
The game quality in the ODT has been pretty shitty, and now we pretty much confirmed why: most of the players are spending a considerable amount of their practice time on SC2 instead of BW.
On May 02 2012 16:07 konadora wrote: ah whatever. bisu or not, i won't watch anymore :/ was nice following the bw scene for the past 10 years.
you'll still hang around for Dota 2?
my last 1000+ posts have mostly all been in dota 2 forum
well, I'll try to top that :p
Egh... I don't know about this... Do I really want to see my BW heros acclimating to a new game and playing badly in the beginning? Probably not... BW RIP I'm off to Dota 2 too
I have to admint this is a very brave and bold move. They are giving us BOTH broodwar and sc2! This means everyone can still find what they like best and enjoy it. Making money from consumers has never been so good :D.
I actually think Kespa still have too much of a Korean-centric focus going forward with SC2. When they were asked about foreign events, Kespa responded with "The main reason we switched to SC II was to put Korea forth as the motherland of esports." I can't see foreigners at Starleague within the next 2 years at least, and that's a huge push that I doubt it will ever happen, whereas I can see OGN conforming with GOMs approach with a more inviting league to foreigners.
The part I'm mostly questioning is the comment on integrating both BW and SC2 in the upcoming Proleague in May. This sounds really strange to me, to be honest. Im excited to see the result of this – because the other suggestion of alternating BW and SC2 within the games sounds very strange to me. Dont think that would be very interesting way of dealing with it either. They games are way to different for it to make sense.
On May 02 2012 18:23 SC_Ghost wrote: I actually think Kespa still have too much of a Korean-centric focus going forward with SC2. When they were asked about foreign events, Kespa responded with "The main reason we switched to SC II was to put Korea forth as the motherland of esports." I can't see foreigners at Starleague within the next 2 years at least, and that's a huge push that I doubt it will ever happen, whereas I can see OGN conforming with GOMs approach with a more inviting league to foreigners.
although I agree with you, I don't think it is necessarily a negative thing. Sure esport can grow worldwide, but Kespa can develope esport more korean focused while GSL can target a more global audience. If, by time, foreigners skill go high enough to compete and esport grow enough worldwidely, Kespa will (or should) eventually open up to them.
On May 02 2012 18:50 TaeTae wrote: I see many people living in the past. BW is an old game. It can't carry esports anymore. Change needed to happen.
You realise that esports will never considered to be a real sport if even one game can't stay consistent, right? If games come and go every 5-10 years people can't build their future on them thus not producing high enough games. Don't you thing kicking a ball is outdated? Or throwing one? I mean cmon.
On May 02 2012 18:50 TaeTae wrote: I see many people living in the past. BW is an old game. It can't carry esports anymore. Change needed to happen.
You realise that esports will never considered to be a real sport if even one game can't stay consistent, right? If games come and go every 5-10 years people can't build their future on them thus not producing high enough games. Don't you thing kicking a ball is outdated? Or throwing one? I mean cmon.
e-sports are different from actual sports.Broodwar is a great game,but as the guy above said it can't live forever.Maybe because it's old or it has "shitty graphics" or whatever.I don't see how you can bring new people to e-sports by showing them Broodwar.
Well I am certainly glad that GOM and OGN are both foreigner friendly in these press releases. KeSPA, in contrast, made no efforts today to reach out to the foreign audience...
Oh well, we will vote with our money in such cases. I plan to continue supporting gom and will buy OGN's broadcast.
On May 02 2012 19:48 neoghaleon55 wrote: Well I am certainly glad that GOM and OGN are both foreigner friendly in these press releases. KeSPA, in contrast, made no efforts today to reach out to the foreign audience...
Oh well, we will vote with our money in such cases. I plan to continue supporting gom and will buy OGN's broadcast.
Kespa are, just no details yet. From the OP:
"Spreading Korean eSports around the world is a goal, and KeSPA has been negotiating with various international organizations."
On May 02 2012 19:48 neoghaleon55 wrote: Well I am certainly glad that GOM and OGN are both foreigner friendly in these press releases. KeSPA, in contrast, made no efforts today to reach out to the foreign audience...
Oh well, we will vote with our money in such cases. I plan to continue supporting gom and will buy OGN's broadcast.
OGN doesn't do paid broadcasts, everything is free.
This is gonna be amazing! I'm still a bit confused about the BW / SC2 tourney will go this month, but it should be interesting.
I've never paid for GSL or any Korean SC content simply because my internet is awful and I didn't think it would be worth the money to have to watch it with mud graphics. When all the BW players start playing SC2 though, there's no way I'm missing that!
Whoa, I honestly was not expecting this, or at least not so soon.
Can someone paraphrase this for me? Does this mean we will see Jaedong in SC2 somewhere down the road? Or will BW-pros stay BW, but the teams will contain both?
As much as I want SC2 to be the game in Korea instead of BW for esports I fear that will get ruined by SC2 simply because the game is harder to make out whats going on in it than BW
On May 02 2012 21:39 k1mjee wrote: It's e-sports or e-sports, not eSports. The "e" means electronic, why is the S always capitalized? That drives me INSANE.
We don't say eMail do we? We say e-mail or email.
It's two lower-case words written in camelCase for dramatic effect and to make the text look better. I prefer it to e-sports, personally.
On May 02 2012 18:50 TaeTae wrote: I see many people living in the past. BW is an old game. It can't carry esports anymore. Change needed to happen.
You realise that esports will never considered to be a real sport if even one game can't stay consistent, right? If games come and go every 5-10 years people can't build their future on them thus not producing high enough games. Don't you thing kicking a ball is outdated? Or throwing one? I mean cmon.
e-sports are different from actual sports.Broodwar is a great game,but as the guy above said it can't live forever.Maybe because it's old or it has "shitty graphics" or whatever.I don't see how you can bring new people to e-sports by showing them Broodwar.
Seems a lot of people mistake eSports for competitive gaming.
On May 02 2012 18:23 SC_Ghost wrote: I actually think Kespa still have too much of a Korean-centric focus going forward with SC2. When they were asked about foreign events, Kespa responded with "The main reason we switched to SC II was to put Korea forth as the motherland of esports." I can't see foreigners at Starleague within the next 2 years at least, and that's a huge push that I doubt it will ever happen, whereas I can see OGN conforming with GOMs approach with a more inviting league to foreigners.
Why do foreigners want everything so easy for them? I fucking hate it.
If they want to be good enough to play in SPL, it's their own job to go out there and make themselves known as fucking good players. If they are good I doubt any korean SPL team wouldn't hire them.
This is fucking bullshit. Why should korean leagues be more inviting to foreigners? They should be welcoming the best players in the world, and only them. If it happens that all the best players in the world are koreans, too bad for foreigners.
Happens that we are in a foreigner community and many people in it are so narrow minded that they feel "our" players should deserve a place in whatever korean league is created just because they are foreigners. If you want to play in the best tournament, you have to be the best, just because you are white (or black, or whatever other race) doesn't give you the right to claim a place in such leagues.
"But mommy SPL happens in Korea, I can't play on same foot as the koreans, that's unfair!1!!". Well, fuck you. If you want to play in Korean leagues, go fucking live in Korea. "But I can't, too expensive, cultures too different, language barrier!1!!", fuck you again, the leagues happen in Korea, deal with it. You can't? Too bad, no SPL/OSL for you.
The passport to korean leagues is your own fucking skills, not the fucking race you are.
On May 02 2012 21:02 Bareleon wrote: As much as I want SC2 to be the game in Korea instead of BW for esports I fear that will get ruined by SC2 simply because the game is harder to make out whats going on in it than BW
You dont know that , sc2 has only a year or so , you think orginal sc 1 was so big in korea after a year ?. Sc2 dont even has expansion set like BW ...and you already know eh. Remmember players makes game interesting and hyped , i think BW pros will make sc2 much better and , and much more interesting to watch
I'm sort of starting to come to terms with what's transpired. BW is so much fun to watch and so exciting, we can only hope that SC2 comes close, and soon, if it is to stay alive as long as BW has as the premier esport. But it's going to suck so much for the time when they have to practice both games.
On May 02 2012 18:23 SC_Ghost wrote: I actually think Kespa still have too much of a Korean-centric focus going forward with SC2. When they were asked about foreign events, Kespa responded with "The main reason we switched to SC II was to put Korea forth as the motherland of esports." I can't see foreigners at Starleague within the next 2 years at least, and that's a huge push that I doubt it will ever happen, whereas I can see OGN conforming with GOMs approach with a more inviting league to foreigners.
Why do foreigners want everything so easy for them? I fucking hate it.
If they want to be good enough to play in SPL, it's their own job to go out there and make themselves known as fucking good players. If they are good I doubt any korean SPL team wouldn't hire them.
This is fucking bullshit. Why should korean leagues be more inviting to foreigners? They should be welcoming the best players in the world, and only them. If it happens that all the best players in the world are koreans, too bad for foreigners.
Happens that we are in a foreigner community and many people in it are so narrow minded that they feel "our" players should deserve a place in whatever korean league is created just because they are foreigners. If you want to play in the best tournament, you have to be the best, just because you are white (or black, or whatever other race) doesn't give you the right to claim a place in such leagues.
"But mommy SPL happens in Korea, I can't play on same foot as the koreans, that's unfair!1!!". Well, fuck you. If you want to play in Korean leagues, go fucking live in Korea. "But I can't, too expensive, cultures too different, language barrier!1!!", fuck you again, the leagues happen in Korea, deal with it. You can't? Too bad, no SPL/OSL for you.
The passport to korean leagues is your own fucking skills, not the fucking race you are.
Well fabiano I understand your pain after all not many foreigners had the courage to go through courage tournament to get the pro gaming license to play in the SPL/MsL/OsL back than . I think it's just the same man, they thought sc2 if they played it first they will be dominating the game instead their plans back fired koreans are already the best at the game already and have been dominating everything they touch right now gsl tournament you name it . So much for easier UI will make me not work for it any more in the macro/micro department and can win it easily without any hard work.
The one thing I thought was good to hear was "KeSPA: Our first objective was to make it so Gom and KeSPA players could play in the same individual leagues. We're working towards that." I guess there is chance they mean everyone should play under KeSPA but I'll be optimistic and say it means KeSPA doesn't mean to keep all their players under lock and key.
This sound incredibly interesting! Of course I hope that bw somehow will thrive in this. But I also want to congratulate all the sc2 fans! - SC2 on OGN is likely to make the game about a billion times more interesting to watch.
On May 02 2012 22:32 XsebT wrote: This sound incredibly interesting! Of course I hope that bw somehow will thrive in this. But I also want to congratulate all the sc2 fans! - SC2 on OGN is likely to make the game about a billion times more interesting to watch.
On May 02 2012 18:23 SC_Ghost wrote: I actually think Kespa still have too much of a Korean-centric focus going forward with SC2. When they were asked about foreign events, Kespa responded with "The main reason we switched to SC II was to put Korea forth as the motherland of esports." I can't see foreigners at Starleague within the next 2 years at least, and that's a huge push that I doubt it will ever happen, whereas I can see OGN conforming with GOMs approach with a more inviting league to foreigners.
Why do foreigners want everything so easy for them? I fucking hate it.
If they want to be good enough to play in SPL, it's their own job to go out there and make themselves known as fucking good players. If they are good I doubt any korean SPL team wouldn't hire them.
This is fucking bullshit. Why should korean leagues be more inviting to foreigners? They should be welcoming the best players in the world, and only them. If it happens that all the best players in the world are koreans, too bad for foreigners.
Happens that we are in a foreigner community and many people in it are so narrow minded that they feel "our" players should deserve a place in whatever korean league is created just because they are foreigners. If you want to play in the best tournament, you have to be the best, just because you are white (or black, or whatever other race) doesn't give you the right to claim a place in such leagues.
"But mommy SPL happens in Korea, I can't play on same foot as the koreans, that's unfair!1!!". Well, fuck you. If you want to play in Korean leagues, go fucking live in Korea. "But I can't, too expensive, cultures too different, language barrier!1!!", fuck you again, the leagues happen in Korea, deal with it. You can't? Too bad, no SPL/OSL for you.
The passport to korean leagues is your own fucking skills, not the fucking race you are.
Perhaps you've interpreted my post in a way I didn't attempt it to be perceived, I take full responsibility for that and I hope you accept my apology. But if we look at every Professional Gaming Competition that's considered of substantial, professional Merit (Such as MLG, IPL, GSL, DH, etc.) they are all inviting a global competition: MLG and IPL invites European and Asian players as well as their 'native' American players; DH does the same, and GSL too. It's established that way so that the global competitive scene grows, not each individual league/nation. It promotes growth across the board, which can only be a good thing.
I have no quarrels with Korea being the home of the best skilled players, it promotes Korean skill-level and makes an impression when a foreigner reaches that level, and like you said: the good enough foreigners will make their own way there. But there's a difference between being inviting of Global Professional Gaming and positioning yourself above that, which (and I don't mean to offend anybody, I'm sorry if I do) I feel is the stance Kespa looks as though they have taken. They have been very critical of themselves with announcing their position to not be undermining of the global competitive scene, but they haven't positioned a stance with embracing it either; which just leaves me personally in an awkward place, thinking: Are they embracing Global Competition, or just acknowledging that it exists?
Either outcome leads to a very different growth of e-sports, both of which the community can perceive to have a negative impact, but which is the lesser of two evils?
EDIT: Just to add: I didn't mean the Korean league need to be inviting of foreigners, of course the foreigners have to earn their place, but I am afraid of the 'new' Korean leagues not embracing the Global scene. I don't want people to confuse Global and Foreign, as a global scene does and should involve the Korean scene.
I can't believe Blizzard pulled this off. I can't believe the Korean e-sports organisations let themselves get into a situation where Blizzard has them by the balls.
OGN and Kespa are taking some pretty big risks: 1. They might alienate their Korean fans - there is only one game that every Korean grew up knowing, and they're turing their backs on it and saying "Hey, let's have millions of people switch to this other game!". I'm curious to see if this will work, and if it does, how many times it will work (because they will have to do it again for the two "expansions", and for SC3, and so on.)
2. Since SC2 doesn't have LAN, these organisations are now completely at Blizzard's mercy. Blizzard now has the power to pull the plug on Proleague or any other event, without having to go to the Korean courts. With Brood War, the situation was different. After Blizzard backed out of the lawsuit, it was theirs to do whatever they wanted with it. That's a pretty big thing they gave away. I hope for their sake that the relationship doesn't sour, and that Blizzard doesn't decide to change the deal.
Overall, it's clear to me why Kespa and OGN did it. It's right there in the statement: international exposure. They are likely to get it, but the risks they are taking seem immense to me.
On May 02 2012 22:55 GeLaar wrote: I can't believe Blizzard pulled this off. I can't believe the Korean e-sports organisations let themselves get into a situation where Blizzard has them by the balls.
OGN and Kespa are taking some pretty big risks: 1. They might alienate their Korean fans - there is only one game that every Korean grew up knowing, and they're turing their backs on it and saying "Hey, let's have millions of people switch to this other game!". I'm curious to see if this will work, and if it does, how many times it will work (because they will have to do it again for the two "expansions", and for SC3, and so on.)
2. Since SC2 doesn't have LAN, these organisations are now completely at Blizzard's mercy. Blizzard now has the power to pull the plug on Proleague or any other event, without having to go to the Korean courts. With Brood War, the situation was different. After Blizzard backed out of the lawsuit, it was theirs to do whatever they wanted with it. That's a pretty big thing they gave away. I hope for their sake that the relationship doesn't sour, and that Blizzard doesn't decide to change the deal.
Overall, it's clear to me why Kespa and OGN did it. It's right there in the statement: international exposure. They are likely to get it, but the risks they are taking seem immense to me.
It is a huge change, and if handled correctly and professionally it will be a huge step forward. I understand your concerns completely, I can see how if it was to go sour it would destroy an entire industry that's been over 10 years in the making. One thing that's clear for me is that if there are disputes amongst the united organisations it would no doubt be fixed without any underlying injustice. All of these organisations care about esports and, being a business, also care about money and the industry. I'm sure that Blizzard (as well as the other parties involved) won't impose such a dictatorial attitude due to the fact that success for ALL of the organisations means success for each of them, if they hurt their partners then in turn they hurt themselves.
So we're actually going to soon witness the last professional televised BW match. What a moment that will be. The final gg. The most bittersweet moment ever. If the commentators aren't crying by the end of it I will be severely disappointed.
On May 02 2012 22:55 GeLaar wrote: I can't believe Blizzard pulled this off. I can't believe the Korean e-sports organisations let themselves get into a situation where Blizzard has them by the balls.
OGN and Kespa are taking some pretty big risks: 1. They might alienate their Korean fans - there is only one game that every Korean grew up knowing, and they're turing their backs on it and saying "Hey, let's have millions of people switch to this other game!". I'm curious to see if this will work, and if it does, how many times it will work (because they will have to do it again for the two "expansions", and for SC3, and so on.)
2. Since SC2 doesn't have LAN, these organisations are now completely at Blizzard's mercy. Blizzard now has the power to pull the plug on Proleague or any other event, without having to go to the Korean courts. With Brood War, the situation was different. After Blizzard backed out of the lawsuit, it was theirs to do whatever they wanted with it. That's a pretty big thing they gave away. I hope for their sake that the relationship doesn't sour, and that Blizzard doesn't decide to change the deal.
Overall, it's clear to me why Kespa and OGN did it. It's right there in the statement: international exposure. They are likely to get it, but the risks they are taking seem immense to me.
It is a huge change, and if handled correctly and professionally it will be a huge step forward. I understand your concerns completely, I can see how if it was to go sour it would destroy an entire industry that's been over 10 years in the making. One thing that's clear for me is that if there are disputes amongst the united organisations it would no doubt be fixed without any underlying injustice. All of these organisations care about esports and, being a business, also care about money and the industry. I'm sure that Blizzard (as well as the other parties involved) won't impose such a dictatorial attitude due to the fact that success for ALL of the organisations means success for each of them, if they hurt their partners then in turn they hurt themselves.
No, blizzard does not care about esport. Otherwise they wouldn't have tried to kill BW so badly. So far they have shown they're too incompetent to fix sc2, so I hope what they did will bite them in the ass. They're becoming the new EA, screw them...
[11:25] Will the Proleague/OSL be SC2 only or SC1 & SC2? Mr. Lee: Officially speaking, Proleague season 2 will begin on 3rd week of May, and it will be both SC1 and SC2. We are still looking into the details of the format that can satisfy both SC1 and SC2 fans. We will probably announce the details by 2nd week of May. For OSL, the new season will begin on October, and it will be a complete transition to SC2. We are still discussing about the requirement of Proleague players. Since it will be both SC1 and 2, it will be hard to change SC1 players to SC2 players in terms of certification. By October, SC1 will vanish and everything will move to SC2. GSTL players is discussing this matter with GomTV and we will discuss with them as well.
This is it then? The Golden Decade of BW will finish in October? Words cannot describe how sad and down i feel right now Watching the SKPlanet S1 Proleague and the latest ODT have been a heartwrencing experience with the overall quality of games that happened (ODT, I'm looking at you)
Makes me wish that Jinair OSL was the last one with how the storylines unfolded and the quality of finals. I do not know how some BW fans (me included) will bear to watch the mixed proleague - indeed a few veterans end their Korean BW experience (Konadora for one). Past two years have been massive fun, but SC2 did not capture my heart the way BW does.
At the very least please keep the BW subforum separate in the post-October world, the thought of it gone for good is terryfying.
this is a shit, they change broodwar for a inferior game just because of the $$, don't matter what you say, starcraft broodwar is much better. and Sc2 will never be as good as BW, won't last for so long, and as well as BW did
This are good games, not like the boring stuff from Sc2!, watch it and learn what's really awesome. nothing in Sc2 will be compared to the feeling that bring this game, or The Jangbi vs Fantasy finals, Jaedong vs Stork in The OSL Ever Finals, etc.
On May 02 2012 22:55 GeLaar wrote: I can't believe Blizzard pulled this off. I can't believe the Korean e-sports organisations let themselves get into a situation where Blizzard has them by the balls.
OGN and Kespa are taking some pretty big risks: 1. They might alienate their Korean fans - there is only one game that every Korean grew up knowing, and they're turing their backs on it and saying "Hey, let's have millions of people switch to this other game!". I'm curious to see if this will work, and if it does, how many times it will work (because they will have to do it again for the two "expansions", and for SC3, and so on.)
2. Since SC2 doesn't have LAN, these organisations are now completely at Blizzard's mercy. Blizzard now has the power to pull the plug on Proleague or any other event, without having to go to the Korean courts. With Brood War, the situation was different. After Blizzard backed out of the lawsuit, it was theirs to do whatever they wanted with it. That's a pretty big thing they gave away. I hope for their sake that the relationship doesn't sour, and that Blizzard doesn't decide to change the deal.
Overall, it's clear to me why Kespa and OGN did it. It's right there in the statement: international exposure. They are likely to get it, but the risks they are taking seem immense to me.
It is a huge change, and if handled correctly and professionally it will be a huge step forward. I understand your concerns completely, I can see how if it was to go sour it would destroy an entire industry that's been over 10 years in the making. One thing that's clear for me is that if there are disputes amongst the united organisations it would no doubt be fixed without any underlying injustice. All of these organisations care about esports and, being a business, also care about money and the industry. I'm sure that Blizzard (as well as the other parties involved) won't impose such a dictatorial attitude due to the fact that success for ALL of the organisations means success for each of them, if they hurt their partners then in turn they hurt themselves.
No, blizzard does not care about esport. Otherwise they wouldn't have tried to kill BW so badly. So far they have shown they're too incompetent to fix sc2, so I hope what they did will bite them in the ass. They're becoming the new EA, screw them...
That's an interesting opinion. It has left me wondering, If they didn't care about esports why would they take part in this union? Surely if esports promotes their game, then esports is something worth investing time and resources into since it makes them more money, right? So that means they must care about esports because of their investments.
On May 02 2012 18:23 SC_Ghost wrote: I actually think Kespa still have too much of a Korean-centric focus going forward with SC2. When they were asked about foreign events, Kespa responded with "The main reason we switched to SC II was to put Korea forth as the motherland of esports." I can't see foreigners at Starleague within the next 2 years at least, and that's a huge push that I doubt it will ever happen, whereas I can see OGN conforming with GOMs approach with a more inviting league to foreigners.
Why do foreigners want everything so easy for them? I fucking hate it.
If they want to be good enough to play in SPL, it's their own job to go out there and make themselves known as fucking good players. If they are good I doubt any korean SPL team wouldn't hire them.
This is fucking bullshit. Why should korean leagues be more inviting to foreigners? They should be welcoming the best players in the world, and only them. If it happens that all the best players in the world are koreans, too bad for foreigners.
Happens that we are in a foreigner community and many people in it are so narrow minded that they feel "our" players should deserve a place in whatever korean league is created just because they are foreigners. If you want to play in the best tournament, you have to be the best, just because you are white (or black, or whatever other race) doesn't give you the right to claim a place in such leagues.
"But mommy SPL happens in Korea, I can't play on same foot as the koreans, that's unfair!1!!". Well, fuck you. If you want to play in Korean leagues, go fucking live in Korea. "But I can't, too expensive, cultures too different, language barrier!1!!", fuck you again, the leagues happen in Korea, deal with it. You can't? Too bad, no SPL/OSL for you.
The passport to korean leagues is your own fucking skills, not the fucking race you are.
Perhaps you've interpreted my post in a way I didn't attempt it to be perceived, I take full responsibility for that and I hope you accept my apology. But if we look at every Professional Gaming Competition that's considered of substantial, professional Merit (Such as MLG, IPL, GSL, DH, etc.) they are all inviting a global competition: MLG and IPL invites European and Asian players as well as their 'native' American players; DH does the same, and GSL too. It's established that way so that the global competitive scene grows, not each individual league/nation. It promotes growth across the board, which can only be a good thing.
I have no quarrels with Korea being the home of the best skilled players, it promotes Korean skill-level and makes an impression when a foreigner reaches that level, and like you said: the good enough foreigners will make their own way there. But there's a difference between being inviting of Global Professional Gaming and positioning yourself above that, which (and I don't mean to offend anybody, I'm sorry if I do) I feel is the stance Kespa looks as though they have taken. They have been very critical of themselves with announcing their position to not be undermining of the global competitive scene, but they haven't positioned a stance with embracing it either; which just leaves me personally in an awkward place, thinking: Are they embracing Global Competition, or just acknowledging that it exists?
Either outcome leads to a very different growth of e-sports, both of which the community can perceive to have a negative impact, but which is the lesser of two evils?
EDIT: Just to add: I didn't mean the Korean league need to be inviting of foreigners, of course the foreigners have to earn their place, but I am afraid of the 'new' Korean leagues not embracing the Global scene. I don't want people to confuse Global and Foreign, as a global scene does and should involve the Korean scene.
How dare Kespa treat foriegners like koreans and require them to EARN a pro gaming licence.
On May 02 2012 18:23 SC_Ghost wrote: I actually think Kespa still have too much of a Korean-centric focus going forward with SC2. When they were asked about foreign events, Kespa responded with "The main reason we switched to SC II was to put Korea forth as the motherland of esports." I can't see foreigners at Starleague within the next 2 years at least, and that's a huge push that I doubt it will ever happen, whereas I can see OGN conforming with GOMs approach with a more inviting league to foreigners.
Why do foreigners want everything so easy for them? I fucking hate it.
If they want to be good enough to play in SPL, it's their own job to go out there and make themselves known as fucking good players. If they are good I doubt any korean SPL team wouldn't hire them.
This is fucking bullshit. Why should korean leagues be more inviting to foreigners? They should be welcoming the best players in the world, and only them. If it happens that all the best players in the world are koreans, too bad for foreigners.
Happens that we are in a foreigner community and many people in it are so narrow minded that they feel "our" players should deserve a place in whatever korean league is created just because they are foreigners. If you want to play in the best tournament, you have to be the best, just because you are white (or black, or whatever other race) doesn't give you the right to claim a place in such leagues.
"But mommy SPL happens in Korea, I can't play on same foot as the koreans, that's unfair!1!!". Well, fuck you. If you want to play in Korean leagues, go fucking live in Korea. "But I can't, too expensive, cultures too different, language barrier!1!!", fuck you again, the leagues happen in Korea, deal with it. You can't? Too bad, no SPL/OSL for you.
The passport to korean leagues is your own fucking skills, not the fucking race you are.
Perhaps you've interpreted my post in a way I didn't attempt it to be perceived, I take full responsibility for that and I hope you accept my apology. But if we look at every Professional Gaming Competition that's considered of substantial, professional Merit (Such as MLG, IPL, GSL, DH, etc.) they are all inviting a global competition: MLG and IPL invites European and Asian players as well as their 'native' American players; DH does the same, and GSL too. It's established that way so that the global competitive scene grows, not each individual league/nation. It promotes growth across the board, which can only be a good thing.
I have no quarrels with Korea being the home of the best skilled players, it promotes Korean skill-level and makes an impression when a foreigner reaches that level, and like you said: the good enough foreigners will make their own way there. But there's a difference between being inviting of Global Professional Gaming and positioning yourself above that, which (and I don't mean to offend anybody, I'm sorry if I do) I feel is the stance Kespa looks as though they have taken. They have been very critical of themselves with announcing their position to not be undermining of the global competitive scene, but they haven't positioned a stance with embracing it either; which just leaves me personally in an awkward place, thinking: Are they embracing Global Competition, or just acknowledging that it exists?
Either outcome leads to a very different growth of e-sports, both of which the community can perceive to have a negative impact, but which is the lesser of two evils?
EDIT: Just to add: I didn't mean the Korean league need to be inviting of foreigners, of course the foreigners have to earn their place, but I am afraid of the 'new' Korean leagues not embracing the Global scene. I don't want people to confuse Global and Foreign, as a global scene does and should involve the Korean scene.
How dare Kespa treat foriegners like koreans and require them to EARN a pro gaming licence.
You've mis-interpreted my post. I made it very clear of my intentions, so I'm sorry that you have perceived the post in the way you did and came to your conclusion, however you are entirely at fault with your response as I'm unaware of how much more clear I could put my post to explain that this is not something that is up for debate here.
I agree that they should earn their spot, I even stated it.
If you truly care about this discussion, re-read my post and try to make sense of it, I clarified the point as much as possible.
On May 03 2012 00:01 Dice17 wrote: notice how KeSPA never mentioned anything about globalization just about the korean scene
On May 02 2012 18:23 SC_Ghost wrote: I actually think Kespa still have too much of a Korean-centric focus going forward with SC2. When they were asked about foreign events, Kespa responded with "The main reason we switched to SC II was to put Korea forth as the motherland of esports." I can't see foreigners at Starleague within the next 2 years at least, and that's a huge push that I doubt it will ever happen, whereas I can see OGN conforming with GOMs approach with a more inviting league to foreigners.
Why do foreigners want everything so easy for them? I fucking hate it.
If they want to be good enough to play in SPL, it's their own job to go out there and make themselves known as fucking good players. If they are good I doubt any korean SPL team wouldn't hire them.
This is fucking bullshit. Why should korean leagues be more inviting to foreigners? They should be welcoming the best players in the world, and only them. If it happens that all the best players in the world are koreans, too bad for foreigners.
Happens that we are in a foreigner community and many people in it are so narrow minded that they feel "our" players should deserve a place in whatever korean league is created just because they are foreigners. If you want to play in the best tournament, you have to be the best, just because you are white (or black, or whatever other race) doesn't give you the right to claim a place in such leagues.
"But mommy SPL happens in Korea, I can't play on same foot as the koreans, that's unfair!1!!". Well, fuck you. If you want to play in Korean leagues, go fucking live in Korea. "But I can't, too expensive, cultures too different, language barrier!1!!", fuck you again, the leagues happen in Korea, deal with it. You can't? Too bad, no SPL/OSL for you.
The passport to korean leagues is your own fucking skills, not the fucking race you are.
Perhaps you've interpreted my post in a way I didn't attempt it to be perceived, I take full responsibility for that and I hope you accept my apology. But if we look at every Professional Gaming Competition that's considered of substantial, professional Merit (Such as MLG, IPL, GSL, DH, etc.) they are all inviting a global competition: MLG and IPL invites European and Asian players as well as their 'native' American players; DH does the same, and GSL too. It's established that way so that the global competitive scene grows, not each individual league/nation. It promotes growth across the board, which can only be a good thing.
I have no quarrels with Korea being the home of the best skilled players, it promotes Korean skill-level and makes an impression when a foreigner reaches that level, and like you said: the good enough foreigners will make their own way there. But there's a difference between being inviting of Global Professional Gaming and positioning yourself above that, which (and I don't mean to offend anybody, I'm sorry if I do) I feel is the stance Kespa looks as though they have taken. They have been very critical of themselves with announcing their position to not be undermining of the global competitive scene, but they haven't positioned a stance with embracing it either; which just leaves me personally in an awkward place, thinking: Are they embracing Global Competition, or just acknowledging that it exists?
Either outcome leads to a very different growth of e-sports, both of which the community can perceive to have a negative impact, but which is the lesser of two evils?
EDIT: Just to add: I didn't mean the Korean league need to be inviting of foreigners, of course the foreigners have to earn their place, but I am afraid of the 'new' Korean leagues not embracing the Global scene. I don't want people to confuse Global and Foreign, as a global scene does and should involve the Korean scene.
How dare Kespa treat foriegners like koreans and require them to EARN a pro gaming licence.
Exactly, the GOM process to foreigners is cool and all but imagine if you are a Korean and some white guy gets an invitation to Code A and then proceeds to get utterly destroyed in the first round, it could have been one of the Code B Closet Gosus who had that spot!
On May 02 2012 23:56 Sum41 wrote: this is a shit, they change broodwar for a inferior game just because of the $$, don't matter what you say, starcraft broodwar is much better. and Sc2 will never be as good as BW, won't last for so long, and as well as BW did
This are good games, not like the boring stuff from Sc2!, watch it and learn what's really awesome. nothing in Sc2 will be compared to the feeling that bring this game, or The Jangbi vs Fantasy finals, Jaedong vs Stork in The OSL Ever Finals, etc.
While i agree with the elitism of BW, it being a harder or more complex game and it being a better candidate for esports, in terms of technology it is simply outdated. Unfortunately the game uses technology that is 15 years old. When technology ages someone else develops a new version to replace it. Again, unfortunately, that is the case here: A large portion of why BW is being made redundant is because the technology is so outdated.
On May 02 2012 21:39 k1mjee wrote: It's e-sports or e-sports, not eSports. The "e" means electronic, why is the S always capitalized? That drives me INSANE.
We don't say eMail do we? We say e-mail or email.
It's actually ESPORTS because fuck yeah. Also, this is some interesting news and I can't wait for more details.
On May 02 2012 18:23 SC_Ghost wrote: I actually think Kespa still have too much of a Korean-centric focus going forward with SC2. When they were asked about foreign events, Kespa responded with "The main reason we switched to SC II was to put Korea forth as the motherland of esports." I can't see foreigners at Starleague within the next 2 years at least, and that's a huge push that I doubt it will ever happen, whereas I can see OGN conforming with GOMs approach with a more inviting league to foreigners.
Why do foreigners want everything so easy for them? I fucking hate it.
If they want to be good enough to play in SPL, it's their own job to go out there and make themselves known as fucking good players. If they are good I doubt any korean SPL team wouldn't hire them.
This is fucking bullshit. Why should korean leagues be more inviting to foreigners? They should be welcoming the best players in the world, and only them. If it happens that all the best players in the world are koreans, too bad for foreigners.
Happens that we are in a foreigner community and many people in it are so narrow minded that they feel "our" players should deserve a place in whatever korean league is created just because they are foreigners. If you want to play in the best tournament, you have to be the best, just because you are white (or black, or whatever other race) doesn't give you the right to claim a place in such leagues.
"But mommy SPL happens in Korea, I can't play on same foot as the koreans, that's unfair!1!!". Well, fuck you. If you want to play in Korean leagues, go fucking live in Korea. "But I can't, too expensive, cultures too different, language barrier!1!!", fuck you again, the leagues happen in Korea, deal with it. You can't? Too bad, no SPL/OSL for you.
The passport to korean leagues is your own fucking skills, not the fucking race you are.
Perhaps you've interpreted my post in a way I didn't attempt it to be perceived, I take full responsibility for that and I hope you accept my apology. But if we look at every Professional Gaming Competition that's considered of substantial, professional Merit (Such as MLG, IPL, GSL, DH, etc.) they are all inviting a global competition: MLG and IPL invites European and Asian players as well as their 'native' American players; DH does the same, and GSL too. It's established that way so that the global competitive scene grows, not each individual league/nation. It promotes growth across the board, which can only be a good thing.
I have no quarrels with Korea being the home of the best skilled players, it promotes Korean skill-level and makes an impression when a foreigner reaches that level, and like you said: the good enough foreigners will make their own way there. But there's a difference between being inviting of Global Professional Gaming and positioning yourself above that, which (and I don't mean to offend anybody, I'm sorry if I do) I feel is the stance Kespa looks as though they have taken. They have been very critical of themselves with announcing their position to not be undermining of the global competitive scene, but they haven't positioned a stance with embracing it either; which just leaves me personally in an awkward place, thinking: Are they embracing Global Competition, or just acknowledging that it exists?
Either outcome leads to a very different growth of e-sports, both of which the community can perceive to have a negative impact, but which is the lesser of two evils?
EDIT: Just to add: I didn't mean the Korean league need to be inviting of foreigners, of course the foreigners have to earn their place, but I am afraid of the 'new' Korean leagues not embracing the Global scene. I don't want people to confuse Global and Foreign, as a global scene does and should involve the Korean scene.
How dare Kespa treat foriegners like koreans and require them to EARN a pro gaming licence.
You've mis-interpreted my post. I made it very clear of my intentions, so I'm sorry that you have perceived the post in the way you did and came to your conclusion, however you are entirely at fault with your response as I'm unaware of how much more clear I could put my post to explain that this is not something that is up for debate here.
I agree that they should earn their spot, I even stated it.
If you truly care about this discussion, re-read my post and try to make sense of it, I clarified the point as much as possible.
On May 03 2012 00:01 Dice17 wrote: notice how KeSPA never mentioned anything about globalization just about the korean scene
This is exactly what I mean.
This is the part that seems contradictory
They have been very critical of themselves with announcing their position to not be undermining of the global competitive scene, but they haven't positioned a stance with embracing it either; which just leaves me personally in an awkward place, thinking: Are they embracing Global Competition, or just acknowledging that it exists?
Contary to popular belief in sc2 forums Kespa never hindered foriengers (Idra and co.). If people want to play in one of the most prestigeous BW(soon to be sc2) league they have to apply and go through trials. I don't support this bs of inviting people. Show matches sure go nuts but anything else would disgrace the LEAGUE.
On May 02 2012 18:50 TaeTae wrote: I see many people living in the past. BW is an old game. It can't carry esports anymore. Change needed to happen.
You realise that esports will never considered to be a real sport if even one game can't stay consistent, right? If games come and go every 5-10 years people can't build their future on them thus not producing high enough games. Don't you thing kicking a ball is outdated? Or throwing one? I mean cmon.
e-sports are different from actual sports.Broodwar is a great game,but as the guy above said it can't live forever.Maybe because it's old or it has "shitty graphics" or whatever.I don't see how you can bring new people to e-sports by showing them Broodwar.
Seems a lot of people mistake eSports for competitive gaming.
Or maybe other people mistake eSports for game marketing. Without a strong competitive foundation the "sports" part becomes a farce (see: wrestling).
SC2 has potential. But, only if Blizzard really take into consideration the visual appeal of SC2. PAr t of the magic of SCBW was that you could actually see crap happen. Unfortunately, In SC2 everything is either blobbed by FG, covered by Medivacs/Vikings, or Blinded by mass Collosi and an unclear Storm radius that does not match its actual image.
On May 02 2012 22:55 GeLaar wrote: I can't believe Blizzard pulled this off. I can't believe the Korean e-sports organisations let themselves get into a situation where Blizzard has them by the balls.
OGN and Kespa are taking some pretty big risks: 1. They might alienate their Korean fans - there is only one game that every Korean grew up knowing, and they're turing their backs on it and saying "Hey, let's have millions of people switch to this other game!". I'm curious to see if this will work, and if it does, how many times it will work (because they will have to do it again for the two "expansions", and for SC3, and so on.)
2. Since SC2 doesn't have LAN, these organisations are now completely at Blizzard's mercy. Blizzard now has the power to pull the plug on Proleague or any other event, without having to go to the Korean courts. With Brood War, the situation was different. After Blizzard backed out of the lawsuit, it was theirs to do whatever they wanted with it. That's a pretty big thing they gave away. I hope for their sake that the relationship doesn't sour, and that Blizzard doesn't decide to change the deal.
Overall, it's clear to me why Kespa and OGN did it. It's right there in the statement: international exposure. They are likely to get it, but the risks they are taking seem immense to me.
It is a huge change, and if handled correctly and professionally it will be a huge step forward. I understand your concerns completely, I can see how if it was to go sour it would destroy an entire industry that's been over 10 years in the making. One thing that's clear for me is that if there are disputes amongst the united organisations it would no doubt be fixed without any underlying injustice. All of these organisations care about esports and, being a business, also care about money and the industry. I'm sure that Blizzard (as well as the other parties involved) won't impose such a dictatorial attitude due to the fact that success for ALL of the organisations means success for each of them, if they hurt their partners then in turn they hurt themselves.
No, blizzard does not care about esport. Otherwise they wouldn't have tried to kill BW so badly. So far they have shown they're too incompetent to fix sc2, so I hope what they did will bite them in the ass. They're becoming the new EA, screw them...
That's an interesting opinion. It has left me wondering, If they didn't care about esports why would they take part in this union? Surely if esports promotes their game, then esports is something worth investing time and resources into since it makes them more money, right? So that means they must care about esports because of their investments.
They care about money, not esports. If they decide it's not worth it, they will get rid of it. They won't support esports for the sake of furthering it. What so hard to understand? They killed the best RTS games to achieve their goal of trying to force Koreans to transition to SC2. If they come to a conclusion that SC2 takes away potential players from their upcoming cash cow, they will kill that game too with no hesitation.
No LAN, no cross-server play, no clan support, bad ladder design, bad custom game lobby, KeSPA lawsuit, forcing KeSPA to switch to SC2, glaring gameplay flaws in SC2. I could go on and on. There's nothing that's going to convince me they genuinely care about esports after what they have done over the years.
On May 02 2012 18:23 SC_Ghost wrote: I actually think Kespa still have too much of a Korean-centric focus going forward with SC2. When they were asked about foreign events, Kespa responded with "The main reason we switched to SC II was to put Korea forth as the motherland of esports." I can't see foreigners at Starleague within the next 2 years at least, and that's a huge push that I doubt it will ever happen, whereas I can see OGN conforming with GOMs approach with a more inviting league to foreigners.
Why do foreigners want everything so easy for them? I fucking hate it.
If they want to be good enough to play in SPL, it's their own job to go out there and make themselves known as fucking good players. If they are good I doubt any korean SPL team wouldn't hire them.
This is fucking bullshit. Why should korean leagues be more inviting to foreigners? They should be welcoming the best players in the world, and only them. If it happens that all the best players in the world are koreans, too bad for foreigners.
Happens that we are in a foreigner community and many people in it are so narrow minded that they feel "our" players should deserve a place in whatever korean league is created just because they are foreigners. If you want to play in the best tournament, you have to be the best, just because you are white (or black, or whatever other race) doesn't give you the right to claim a place in such leagues.
"But mommy SPL happens in Korea, I can't play on same foot as the koreans, that's unfair!1!!". Well, fuck you. If you want to play in Korean leagues, go fucking live in Korea. "But I can't, too expensive, cultures too different, language barrier!1!!", fuck you again, the leagues happen in Korea, deal with it. You can't? Too bad, no SPL/OSL for you.
The passport to korean leagues is your own fucking skills, not the fucking race you are.
Perhaps you've interpreted my post in a way I didn't attempt it to be perceived, I take full responsibility for that and I hope you accept my apology. But if we look at every Professional Gaming Competition that's considered of substantial, professional Merit (Such as MLG, IPL, GSL, DH, etc.) they are all inviting a global competition: MLG and IPL invites European and Asian players as well as their 'native' American players; DH does the same, and GSL too. It's established that way so that the global competitive scene grows, not each individual league/nation. It promotes growth across the board, which can only be a good thing.
I have no quarrels with Korea being the home of the best skilled players, it promotes Korean skill-level and makes an impression when a foreigner reaches that level, and like you said: the good enough foreigners will make their own way there. But there's a difference between being inviting of Global Professional Gaming and positioning yourself above that, which (and I don't mean to offend anybody, I'm sorry if I do) I feel is the stance Kespa looks as though they have taken. They have been very critical of themselves with announcing their position to not be undermining of the global competitive scene, but they haven't positioned a stance with embracing it either; which just leaves me personally in an awkward place, thinking: Are they embracing Global Competition, or just acknowledging that it exists?
Either outcome leads to a very different growth of e-sports, both of which the community can perceive to have a negative impact, but which is the lesser of two evils?
EDIT: Just to add: I didn't mean the Korean league need to be inviting of foreigners, of course the foreigners have to earn their place, but I am afraid of the 'new' Korean leagues not embracing the Global scene. I don't want people to confuse Global and Foreign, as a global scene does and should involve the Korean scene.
How dare Kespa treat foriegners like koreans and require them to EARN a pro gaming licence.
Exactly, the GOM process to foreigners is cool and all but imagine if you are a Korean and some white guy gets an invitation to Code A and then proceeds to get utterly destroyed in the first round, it could have been one of the Code B Closet Gosus who had that spot!
Another intriguing opinion, but the fact is (especially with the GOM process) that 'white guy' has actually earned his place there by performing against Code A Korean players in other notable global events. The foreign individuals have made a name for themselves competing against Code A players, doesn't that make them eligible to at least compete to be in Code A?
On May 02 2012 18:23 SC_Ghost wrote: I actually think Kespa still have too much of a Korean-centric focus going forward with SC2. When they were asked about foreign events, Kespa responded with "The main reason we switched to SC II was to put Korea forth as the motherland of esports." I can't see foreigners at Starleague within the next 2 years at least, and that's a huge push that I doubt it will ever happen, whereas I can see OGN conforming with GOMs approach with a more inviting league to foreigners.
Why do foreigners want everything so easy for them? I fucking hate it.
If they want to be good enough to play in SPL, it's their own job to go out there and make themselves known as fucking good players. If they are good I doubt any korean SPL team wouldn't hire them.
This is fucking bullshit. Why should korean leagues be more inviting to foreigners? They should be welcoming the best players in the world, and only them. If it happens that all the best players in the world are koreans, too bad for foreigners.
Happens that we are in a foreigner community and many people in it are so narrow minded that they feel "our" players should deserve a place in whatever korean league is created just because they are foreigners. If you want to play in the best tournament, you have to be the best, just because you are white (or black, or whatever other race) doesn't give you the right to claim a place in such leagues.
"But mommy SPL happens in Korea, I can't play on same foot as the koreans, that's unfair!1!!". Well, fuck you. If you want to play in Korean leagues, go fucking live in Korea. "But I can't, too expensive, cultures too different, language barrier!1!!", fuck you again, the leagues happen in Korea, deal with it. You can't? Too bad, no SPL/OSL for you.
The passport to korean leagues is your own fucking skills, not the fucking race you are.
Perhaps you've interpreted my post in a way I didn't attempt it to be perceived, I take full responsibility for that and I hope you accept my apology. But if we look at every Professional Gaming Competition that's considered of substantial, professional Merit (Such as MLG, IPL, GSL, DH, etc.) they are all inviting a global competition: MLG and IPL invites European and Asian players as well as their 'native' American players; DH does the same, and GSL too. It's established that way so that the global competitive scene grows, not each individual league/nation. It promotes growth across the board, which can only be a good thing.
I have no quarrels with Korea being the home of the best skilled players, it promotes Korean skill-level and makes an impression when a foreigner reaches that level, and like you said: the good enough foreigners will make their own way there. But there's a difference between being inviting of Global Professional Gaming and positioning yourself above that, which (and I don't mean to offend anybody, I'm sorry if I do) I feel is the stance Kespa looks as though they have taken. They have been very critical of themselves with announcing their position to not be undermining of the global competitive scene, but they haven't positioned a stance with embracing it either; which just leaves me personally in an awkward place, thinking: Are they embracing Global Competition, or just acknowledging that it exists?
Either outcome leads to a very different growth of e-sports, both of which the community can perceive to have a negative impact, but which is the lesser of two evils?
EDIT: Just to add: I didn't mean the Korean league need to be inviting of foreigners, of course the foreigners have to earn their place, but I am afraid of the 'new' Korean leagues not embracing the Global scene. I don't want people to confuse Global and Foreign, as a global scene does and should involve the Korean scene.
How dare Kespa treat foriegners like koreans and require them to EARN a pro gaming licence.
Exactly, the GOM process to foreigners is cool and all but imagine if you are a Korean and some white guy gets an invitation to Code A and then proceeds to get utterly destroyed in the first round, it could have been one of the Code B Closet Gosus who had that spot!
Another intriguing opinion, but the fact is (especially with the GOM process) that 'white guy' has actually earned his place there by performing against Code A Korean players in other notable global events. The foreign individuals have made a name for themselves competing against Code A players, doesn't that make them eligible to at least compete to be in Code A?
Yes but the problem is that you're giving foreigners preferrential treatment. No korean would get those sweet bonuses, that is why it is a disgrace; not the pro players, but the league.
On May 03 2012 00:12 TrainSamurai wrote:Contary to popular belief in sc2 forums Kespa never hindered foriengers (Idra and co.). If people want to play in one of the most prestigeous BW(soon to be sc2) league they have to apply and go through trials. I don't support this bs of inviting people. Show matches sure go nuts but anything else would disgrace the LEAGUE.
If you re-read my post, I don't condone inviting foreigners. I support being an inviting organisation towards the attitude of globalisation, expanding the reach of your organisation to the Global scene. These two things, 1) inviting foreigners to attend your event and 2) Supporting an attitude towards the globalisation are very very different things.
If you would like I'll do some digging and attempt to explain the definitions of both.
On May 02 2012 18:23 SC_Ghost wrote: I actually think Kespa still have too much of a Korean-centric focus going forward with SC2. When they were asked about foreign events, Kespa responded with "The main reason we switched to SC II was to put Korea forth as the motherland of esports." I can't see foreigners at Starleague within the next 2 years at least, and that's a huge push that I doubt it will ever happen, whereas I can see OGN conforming with GOMs approach with a more inviting league to foreigners.
Why do foreigners want everything so easy for them? I fucking hate it.
If they want to be good enough to play in SPL, it's their own job to go out there and make themselves known as fucking good players. If they are good I doubt any korean SPL team wouldn't hire them.
This is fucking bullshit. Why should korean leagues be more inviting to foreigners? They should be welcoming the best players in the world, and only them. If it happens that all the best players in the world are koreans, too bad for foreigners.
Happens that we are in a foreigner community and many people in it are so narrow minded that they feel "our" players should deserve a place in whatever korean league is created just because they are foreigners. If you want to play in the best tournament, you have to be the best, just because you are white (or black, or whatever other race) doesn't give you the right to claim a place in such leagues.
"But mommy SPL happens in Korea, I can't play on same foot as the koreans, that's unfair!1!!". Well, fuck you. If you want to play in Korean leagues, go fucking live in Korea. "But I can't, too expensive, cultures too different, language barrier!1!!", fuck you again, the leagues happen in Korea, deal with it. You can't? Too bad, no SPL/OSL for you.
The passport to korean leagues is your own fucking skills, not the fucking race you are.
Perhaps you've interpreted my post in a way I didn't attempt it to be perceived, I take full responsibility for that and I hope you accept my apology. But if we look at every Professional Gaming Competition that's considered of substantial, professional Merit (Such as MLG, IPL, GSL, DH, etc.) they are all inviting a global competition: MLG and IPL invites European and Asian players as well as their 'native' American players; DH does the same, and GSL too. It's established that way so that the global competitive scene grows, not each individual league/nation. It promotes growth across the board, which can only be a good thing.
I have no quarrels with Korea being the home of the best skilled players, it promotes Korean skill-level and makes an impression when a foreigner reaches that level, and like you said: the good enough foreigners will make their own way there. But there's a difference between being inviting of Global Professional Gaming and positioning yourself above that, which (and I don't mean to offend anybody, I'm sorry if I do) I feel is the stance Kespa looks as though they have taken. They have been very critical of themselves with announcing their position to not be undermining of the global competitive scene, but they haven't positioned a stance with embracing it either; which just leaves me personally in an awkward place, thinking: Are they embracing Global Competition, or just acknowledging that it exists?
Either outcome leads to a very different growth of e-sports, both of which the community can perceive to have a negative impact, but which is the lesser of two evils?
EDIT: Just to add: I didn't mean the Korean league need to be inviting of foreigners, of course the foreigners have to earn their place, but I am afraid of the 'new' Korean leagues not embracing the Global scene. I don't want people to confuse Global and Foreign, as a global scene does and should involve the Korean scene.
How dare Kespa treat foriegners like koreans and require them to EARN a pro gaming licence.
Exactly, the GOM process to foreigners is cool and all but imagine if you are a Korean and some white guy gets an invitation to Code A and then proceeds to get utterly destroyed in the first round, it could have been one of the Code B Closet Gosus who had that spot!
Another intriguing opinion, but the fact is (especially with the GOM process) that 'white guy' has actually earned his place there by performing against Code A Korean players in other notable global events. The foreign individuals have made a name for themselves competing against Code A players, doesn't that make them eligible to at least compete to be in Code A?
Yes but the problem is that you're giving foreigners preferrential treatment. No korean would get those sweet bonuses, that is why it is a disgrace; not the pro players, but the league.
On May 02 2012 18:23 SC_Ghost wrote: I actually think Kespa still have too much of a Korean-centric focus going forward with SC2. When they were asked about foreign events, Kespa responded with "The main reason we switched to SC II was to put Korea forth as the motherland of esports." I can't see foreigners at Starleague within the next 2 years at least, and that's a huge push that I doubt it will ever happen, whereas I can see OGN conforming with GOMs approach with a more inviting league to foreigners.
Why do foreigners want everything so easy for them? I fucking hate it.
If they want to be good enough to play in SPL, it's their own job to go out there and make themselves known as fucking good players. If they are good I doubt any korean SPL team wouldn't hire them.
This is fucking bullshit. Why should korean leagues be more inviting to foreigners? They should be welcoming the best players in the world, and only them. If it happens that all the best players in the world are koreans, too bad for foreigners.
Happens that we are in a foreigner community and many people in it are so narrow minded that they feel "our" players should deserve a place in whatever korean league is created just because they are foreigners. If you want to play in the best tournament, you have to be the best, just because you are white (or black, or whatever other race) doesn't give you the right to claim a place in such leagues.
On May 03 2012 00:23 Morfildur wrote:
On May 03 2012 00:15 TrainSamurai wrote:
On May 03 2012 00:13 SC_Ghost wrote:
On May 03 2012 00:04 NexUmbra wrote: [quote]
Exactly, the GOM process to foreigners is cool and all but imagine if you are a Korean and some white guy gets an invitation to Code A and then proceeds to get utterly destroyed in the first round, it could have been one of the Code B Closet Gosus who had that spot!
Another intriguing opinion, but the fact is (especially with the GOM process) that 'white guy' has actually earned his place there by performing against Code A Korean players in other notable global events. The foreign individuals have made a name for themselves competing against Code A players, doesn't that make them eligible to at least compete to be in Code A?
Yes but the problem is that you're giving foreigners preferrential treatment. No korean would get those sweet bonuses, that is why it is a disgrace; not the pro players, but the league.
Uhm... Polt is not a korean?
"But mommy SPL happens in Korea, I can't play on same foot as the koreans, that's unfair!1!!". Well, fuck you. If you want to play in Korean leagues, go fucking live in Korea. "But I can't, too expensive, cultures too different, language barrier!1!!", fuck you again, the leagues happen in Korea, deal with it. You can't? Too bad, no SPL/OSL for you.
The passport to korean leagues is your own fucking skills, not the fucking race you are.
Perhaps you've interpreted my post in a way I didn't attempt it to be perceived, I take full responsibility for that and I hope you accept my apology. But if we look at every Professional Gaming Competition that's considered of substantial, professional Merit (Such as MLG, IPL, GSL, DH, etc.) they are all inviting a global competition: MLG and IPL invites European and Asian players as well as their 'native' American players; DH does the same, and GSL too. It's established that way so that the global competitive scene grows, not each individual league/nation. It promotes growth across the board, which can only be a good thing.
I have no quarrels with Korea being the home of the best skilled players, it promotes Korean skill-level and makes an impression when a foreigner reaches that level, and like you said: the good enough foreigners will make their own way there. But there's a difference between being inviting of Global Professional Gaming and positioning yourself above that, which (and I don't mean to offend anybody, I'm sorry if I do) I feel is the stance Kespa looks as though they have taken. They have been very critical of themselves with announcing their position to not be undermining of the global competitive scene, but they haven't positioned a stance with embracing it either; which just leaves me personally in an awkward place, thinking: Are they embracing Global Competition, or just acknowledging that it exists?
Either outcome leads to a very different growth of e-sports, both of which the community can perceive to have a negative impact, but which is the lesser of two evils?
EDIT: Just to add: I didn't mean the Korean league need to be inviting of foreigners, of course the foreigners have to earn their place, but I am afraid of the 'new' Korean leagues not embracing the Global scene. I don't want people to confuse Global and Foreign, as a global scene does and should involve the Korean scene.
How dare Kespa treat foriegners like koreans and require them to EARN a pro gaming licence.
Exactly, the GOM process to foreigners is cool and all but imagine if you are a Korean and some white guy gets an invitation to Code A and then proceeds to get utterly destroyed in the first round, it could have been one of the Code B Closet Gosus who had that spot!
Another intriguing opinion, but the fact is (especially with the GOM process) that 'white guy' has actually earned his place there by performing against Code A Korean players in other notable global events. The foreign individuals have made a name for themselves competing against Code A players, doesn't that make them eligible to at least compete to be in Code A?
Yes but the problem is that you're giving foreigners preferrential treatment. No korean would get those sweet bonuses, that is why it is a disgrace; not the pro players, but the league.
Where's the preferential treatment? At MLG, Dreamhack or IPL Stephano beats Code A/Code S players and ranks highly in every event. Does that not make him eligible to at least compete to try and qualify for Code A or Code S? The same would be the case for a B-Teamer Korean getting consistent results vs Code S players, they would be subject to exposure and therefore would have earned a chance. I don't see it preferential at all.
On May 02 2012 18:23 SC_Ghost wrote: I actually think Kespa still have too much of a Korean-centric focus going forward with SC2. When they were asked about foreign events, Kespa responded with "The main reason we switched to SC II was to put Korea forth as the motherland of esports." I can't see foreigners at Starleague within the next 2 years at least, and that's a huge push that I doubt it will ever happen, whereas I can see OGN conforming with GOMs approach with a more inviting league to foreigners.
Why do foreigners want everything so easy for them? I fucking hate it.
If they want to be good enough to play in SPL, it's their own job to go out there and make themselves known as fucking good players. If they are good I doubt any korean SPL team wouldn't hire them.
This is fucking bullshit. Why should korean leagues be more inviting to foreigners? They should be welcoming the best players in the world, and only them. If it happens that all the best players in the world are koreans, too bad for foreigners.
Happens that we are in a foreigner community and many people in it are so narrow minded that they feel "our" players should deserve a place in whatever korean league is created just because they are foreigners. If you want to play in the best tournament, you have to be the best, just because you are white (or black, or whatever other race) doesn't give you the right to claim a place in such leagues.
"But mommy SPL happens in Korea, I can't play on same foot as the koreans, that's unfair!1!!". Well, fuck you. If you want to play in Korean leagues, go fucking live in Korea. "But I can't, too expensive, cultures too different, language barrier!1!!", fuck you again, the leagues happen in Korea, deal with it. You can't? Too bad, no SPL/OSL for you.
The passport to korean leagues is your own fucking skills, not the fucking race you are.
Perhaps you've interpreted my post in a way I didn't attempt it to be perceived, I take full responsibility for that and I hope you accept my apology. But if we look at every Professional Gaming Competition that's considered of substantial, professional Merit (Such as MLG, IPL, GSL, DH, etc.) they are all inviting a global competition: MLG and IPL invites European and Asian players as well as their 'native' American players; DH does the same, and GSL too. It's established that way so that the global competitive scene grows, not each individual league/nation. It promotes growth across the board, which can only be a good thing.
I have no quarrels with Korea being the home of the best skilled players, it promotes Korean skill-level and makes an impression when a foreigner reaches that level, and like you said: the good enough foreigners will make their own way there. But there's a difference between being inviting of Global Professional Gaming and positioning yourself above that, which (and I don't mean to offend anybody, I'm sorry if I do) I feel is the stance Kespa looks as though they have taken. They have been very critical of themselves with announcing their position to not be undermining of the global competitive scene, but they haven't positioned a stance with embracing it either; which just leaves me personally in an awkward place, thinking: Are they embracing Global Competition, or just acknowledging that it exists?
Either outcome leads to a very different growth of e-sports, both of which the community can perceive to have a negative impact, but which is the lesser of two evils?
EDIT: Just to add: I didn't mean the Korean league need to be inviting of foreigners, of course the foreigners have to earn their place, but I am afraid of the 'new' Korean leagues not embracing the Global scene. I don't want people to confuse Global and Foreign, as a global scene does and should involve the Korean scene.
How dare Kespa treat foriegners like koreans and require them to EARN a pro gaming licence.
Exactly, the GOM process to foreigners is cool and all but imagine if you are a Korean and some white guy gets an invitation to Code A and then proceeds to get utterly destroyed in the first round, it could have been one of the Code B Closet Gosus who had that spot!
Another intriguing opinion, but the fact is (especially with the GOM process) that 'white guy' has actually earned his place there by performing against Code A Korean players in other notable global events. The foreign individuals have made a name for themselves competing against Code A players, doesn't that make them eligible to at least compete to be in Code A?
Yes but the problem is that you're giving foreigners preferrential treatment. No korean would get those sweet bonuses, that is why it is a disgrace; not the pro players, but the league.
On May 02 2012 23:56 Sum41 wrote: this is a shit, they change broodwar for a inferior game just because of the $$, don't matter what you say, starcraft broodwar is much better. and Sc2 will never be as good as BW, won't last for so long, and as well as BW did
This are good games, not like the boring stuff from Sc2!, watch it and learn what's really awesome. nothing in Sc2 will be compared to the feeling that bring this game, or The Jangbi vs Fantasy finals, Jaedong vs Stork in The OSL Ever Finals, etc.
While i agree with the elitism of BW, it being a harder or more complex game and it being a better candidate for esports, in terms of technology it is simply outdated. Unfortunately the game uses technology that is 15 years old. When technology ages someone else develops a new version to replace it. Again, unfortunately, that is the case here: A large portion of why BW is being made redundant is because the technology is so outdated.
the only thing that the technology has done is give better graphic to Sc2, in all the other aspects BW is superior. and play a game just for the graphics is like watch a porn movie for the argument -_-;
that's why it's reatarded to kill BW, for a dumb game like SC2
On May 02 2012 18:23 SC_Ghost wrote: I actually think Kespa still have too much of a Korean-centric focus going forward with SC2. When they were asked about foreign events, Kespa responded with "The main reason we switched to SC II was to put Korea forth as the motherland of esports." I can't see foreigners at Starleague within the next 2 years at least, and that's a huge push that I doubt it will ever happen, whereas I can see OGN conforming with GOMs approach with a more inviting league to foreigners.
Why do foreigners want everything so easy for them? I fucking hate it.
If they want to be good enough to play in SPL, it's their own job to go out there and make themselves known as fucking good players. If they are good I doubt any korean SPL team wouldn't hire them.
This is fucking bullshit. Why should korean leagues be more inviting to foreigners? They should be welcoming the best players in the world, and only them. If it happens that all the best players in the world are koreans, too bad for foreigners.
Happens that we are in a foreigner community and many people in it are so narrow minded that they feel "our" players should deserve a place in whatever korean league is created just because they are foreigners. If you want to play in the best tournament, you have to be the best, just because you are white (or black, or whatever other race) doesn't give you the right to claim a place in such leagues.
"But mommy SPL happens in Korea, I can't play on same foot as the koreans, that's unfair!1!!". Well, fuck you. If you want to play in Korean leagues, go fucking live in Korea. "But I can't, too expensive, cultures too different, language barrier!1!!", fuck you again, the leagues happen in Korea, deal with it. You can't? Too bad, no SPL/OSL for you.
The passport to korean leagues is your own fucking skills, not the fucking race you are.
Perhaps you've interpreted my post in a way I didn't attempt it to be perceived, I take full responsibility for that and I hope you accept my apology. But if we look at every Professional Gaming Competition that's considered of substantial, professional Merit (Such as MLG, IPL, GSL, DH, etc.) they are all inviting a global competition: MLG and IPL invites European and Asian players as well as their 'native' American players; DH does the same, and GSL too. It's established that way so that the global competitive scene grows, not each individual league/nation. It promotes growth across the board, which can only be a good thing.
I have no quarrels with Korea being the home of the best skilled players, it promotes Korean skill-level and makes an impression when a foreigner reaches that level, and like you said: the good enough foreigners will make their own way there. But there's a difference between being inviting of Global Professional Gaming and positioning yourself above that, which (and I don't mean to offend anybody, I'm sorry if I do) I feel is the stance Kespa looks as though they have taken. They have been very critical of themselves with announcing their position to not be undermining of the global competitive scene, but they haven't positioned a stance with embracing it either; which just leaves me personally in an awkward place, thinking: Are they embracing Global Competition, or just acknowledging that it exists?
Either outcome leads to a very different growth of e-sports, both of which the community can perceive to have a negative impact, but which is the lesser of two evils?
EDIT: Just to add: I didn't mean the Korean league need to be inviting of foreigners, of course the foreigners have to earn their place, but I am afraid of the 'new' Korean leagues not embracing the Global scene. I don't want people to confuse Global and Foreign, as a global scene does and should involve the Korean scene.
How dare Kespa treat foriegners like koreans and require them to EARN a pro gaming licence.
Exactly, the GOM process to foreigners is cool and all but imagine if you are a Korean and some white guy gets an invitation to Code A and then proceeds to get utterly destroyed in the first round, it could have been one of the Code B Closet Gosus who had that spot!
Another intriguing opinion, but the fact is (especially with the GOM process) that 'white guy' has actually earned his place there by performing against Code A Korean players in other notable global events. The foreign individuals have made a name for themselves competing against Code A players, doesn't that make them eligible to at least compete to be in Code A?
Yes but the problem is that you're giving foreigners preferrential treatment. No korean would get those sweet bonuses, that is why it is a disgrace; not the pro players, but the league.
Where's the preferential treatment? At MLG, Dreamhack or IPL Stephano beats Code A/Code S players and ranks highly in every event. Does that not make him eligible to at least compete to try and qualify for Code A or Code S?
No. If I had my way he would have to go through qualifiers. Then again I'm not sure how GSL format even works, too confusing. Just saying if he wants to compete in a presteigeous tournament like Proleague anything less than passing qualifications is preferrential treatment in my book. Even Flash had to do it, it only took him one month. If Stephano has the ability he shouldn't be afraid of it.
@ Polt comment, well he did go overseas didn't he?
On May 03 2012 00:29 TrainSamurai wrote: No. If I had my way he would have to go through qualifiers. Then again I'm not sure how GSL format even works, too confusing. Just saying if he wants to compete in a presteigeous tournament like Proleague anything less than passing qualifications is preferrential treatment in my book. Even Flash had to do it .
@ Polt comment, well he did go overseas didn't he?
On May 02 2012 18:23 SC_Ghost wrote: I actually think Kespa still have too much of a Korean-centric focus going forward with SC2. When they were asked about foreign events, Kespa responded with "The main reason we switched to SC II was to put Korea forth as the motherland of esports." I can't see foreigners at Starleague within the next 2 years at least, and that's a huge push that I doubt it will ever happen, whereas I can see OGN conforming with GOMs approach with a more inviting league to foreigners.
Why do foreigners want everything so easy for them? I fucking hate it.
If they want to be good enough to play in SPL, it's their own job to go out there and make themselves known as fucking good players. If they are good I doubt any korean SPL team wouldn't hire them.
This is fucking bullshit. Why should korean leagues be more inviting to foreigners? They should be welcoming the best players in the world, and only them. If it happens that all the best players in the world are koreans, too bad for foreigners.
Happens that we are in a foreigner community and many people in it are so narrow minded that they feel "our" players should deserve a place in whatever korean league is created just because they are foreigners. If you want to play in the best tournament, you have to be the best, just because you are white (or black, or whatever other race) doesn't give you the right to claim a place in such leagues.
"But mommy SPL happens in Korea, I can't play on same foot as the koreans, that's unfair!1!!". Well, fuck you. If you want to play in Korean leagues, go fucking live in Korea. "But I can't, too expensive, cultures too different, language barrier!1!!", fuck you again, the leagues happen in Korea, deal with it. You can't? Too bad, no SPL/OSL for you.
The passport to korean leagues is your own fucking skills, not the fucking race you are.
Perhaps you've interpreted my post in a way I didn't attempt it to be perceived, I take full responsibility for that and I hope you accept my apology. But if we look at every Professional Gaming Competition that's considered of substantial, professional Merit (Such as MLG, IPL, GSL, DH, etc.) they are all inviting a global competition: MLG and IPL invites European and Asian players as well as their 'native' American players; DH does the same, and GSL too. It's established that way so that the global competitive scene grows, not each individual league/nation. It promotes growth across the board, which can only be a good thing.
I have no quarrels with Korea being the home of the best skilled players, it promotes Korean skill-level and makes an impression when a foreigner reaches that level, and like you said: the good enough foreigners will make their own way there. But there's a difference between being inviting of Global Professional Gaming and positioning yourself above that, which (and I don't mean to offend anybody, I'm sorry if I do) I feel is the stance Kespa looks as though they have taken. They have been very critical of themselves with announcing their position to not be undermining of the global competitive scene, but they haven't positioned a stance with embracing it either; which just leaves me personally in an awkward place, thinking: Are they embracing Global Competition, or just acknowledging that it exists?
Either outcome leads to a very different growth of e-sports, both of which the community can perceive to have a negative impact, but which is the lesser of two evils?
EDIT: Just to add: I didn't mean the Korean league need to be inviting of foreigners, of course the foreigners have to earn their place, but I am afraid of the 'new' Korean leagues not embracing the Global scene. I don't want people to confuse Global and Foreign, as a global scene does and should involve the Korean scene.
How dare Kespa treat foriegners like koreans and require them to EARN a pro gaming licence.
Exactly, the GOM process to foreigners is cool and all but imagine if you are a Korean and some white guy gets an invitation to Code A and then proceeds to get utterly destroyed in the first round, it could have been one of the Code B Closet Gosus who had that spot!
Another intriguing opinion, but the fact is (especially with the GOM process) that 'white guy' has actually earned his place there by performing against Code A Korean players in other notable global events. The foreign individuals have made a name for themselves competing against Code A players, doesn't that make them eligible to at least compete to be in Code A?
Yes but the problem is that you're giving foreigners preferrential treatment. No korean would get those sweet bonuses, that is why it is a disgrace; not the pro players, but the league.
Where's the preferential treatment? At MLG, Dreamhack or IPL Stephano beats Code A/Code S players and ranks highly in every event. Does that not make him eligible to at least compete to try and qualify for Code A or Code S?
Does this mean you agree with me or? I'm a bit confused by your response.
On May 03 2012 00:29 TrainSamurai wrote: No. If I had my way he would have to go through qualifiers. Then again I'm not sure how GSL format even works, too confusing. Just saying if he wants to compete in a presteigeous tournament like Proleague anything less than passing qualifications is preferrential treatment in my book. Even Flash had to do it .
@ Polt comment, well he did go overseas didn't he?
On May 02 2012 18:23 SC_Ghost wrote: I actually think Kespa still have too much of a Korean-centric focus going forward with SC2. When they were asked about foreign events, Kespa responded with "The main reason we switched to SC II was to put Korea forth as the motherland of esports." I can't see foreigners at Starleague within the next 2 years at least, and that's a huge push that I doubt it will ever happen, whereas I can see OGN conforming with GOMs approach with a more inviting league to foreigners.
Why do foreigners want everything so easy for them? I fucking hate it.
If they want to be good enough to play in SPL, it's their own job to go out there and make themselves known as fucking good players. If they are good I doubt any korean SPL team wouldn't hire them.
This is fucking bullshit. Why should korean leagues be more inviting to foreigners? They should be welcoming the best players in the world, and only them. If it happens that all the best players in the world are koreans, too bad for foreigners.
Happens that we are in a foreigner community and many people in it are so narrow minded that they feel "our" players should deserve a place in whatever korean league is created just because they are foreigners. If you want to play in the best tournament, you have to be the best, just because you are white (or black, or whatever other race) doesn't give you the right to claim a place in such leagues.
"But mommy SPL happens in Korea, I can't play on same foot as the koreans, that's unfair!1!!". Well, fuck you. If you want to play in Korean leagues, go fucking live in Korea. "But I can't, too expensive, cultures too different, language barrier!1!!", fuck you again, the leagues happen in Korea, deal with it. You can't? Too bad, no SPL/OSL for you.
The passport to korean leagues is your own fucking skills, not the fucking race you are.
Perhaps you've interpreted my post in a way I didn't attempt it to be perceived, I take full responsibility for that and I hope you accept my apology. But if we look at every Professional Gaming Competition that's considered of substantial, professional Merit (Such as MLG, IPL, GSL, DH, etc.) they are all inviting a global competition: MLG and IPL invites European and Asian players as well as their 'native' American players; DH does the same, and GSL too. It's established that way so that the global competitive scene grows, not each individual league/nation. It promotes growth across the board, which can only be a good thing.
I have no quarrels with Korea being the home of the best skilled players, it promotes Korean skill-level and makes an impression when a foreigner reaches that level, and like you said: the good enough foreigners will make their own way there. But there's a difference between being inviting of Global Professional Gaming and positioning yourself above that, which (and I don't mean to offend anybody, I'm sorry if I do) I feel is the stance Kespa looks as though they have taken. They have been very critical of themselves with announcing their position to not be undermining of the global competitive scene, but they haven't positioned a stance with embracing it either; which just leaves me personally in an awkward place, thinking: Are they embracing Global Competition, or just acknowledging that it exists?
Either outcome leads to a very different growth of e-sports, both of which the community can perceive to have a negative impact, but which is the lesser of two evils?
EDIT: Just to add: I didn't mean the Korean league need to be inviting of foreigners, of course the foreigners have to earn their place, but I am afraid of the 'new' Korean leagues not embracing the Global scene. I don't want people to confuse Global and Foreign, as a global scene does and should involve the Korean scene.
How dare Kespa treat foriegners like koreans and require them to EARN a pro gaming licence.
Exactly, the GOM process to foreigners is cool and all but imagine if you are a Korean and some white guy gets an invitation to Code A and then proceeds to get utterly destroyed in the first round, it could have been one of the Code B Closet Gosus who had that spot!
Another intriguing opinion, but the fact is (especially with the GOM process) that 'white guy' has actually earned his place there by performing against Code A Korean players in other notable global events. The foreign individuals have made a name for themselves competing against Code A players, doesn't that make them eligible to at least compete to be in Code A?
Yes but the problem is that you're giving foreigners preferrential treatment. No korean would get those sweet bonuses, that is why it is a disgrace; not the pro players, but the league.
Where's the preferential treatment? At MLG, Dreamhack or IPL Stephano beats Code A/Code S players and ranks highly in every event. Does that not make him eligible to at least compete to try and qualify for Code A or Code S?
We were originally talking about Kespa. Proleague is Kespa's. You were talking about some crap about opening up moreso than what they've currently done. Maybe you just don't know anything about Kespa?
On May 03 2012 00:29 TrainSamurai wrote: No. If I had my way he would have to go through qualifiers. Then again I'm not sure how GSL format even works, too confusing. Just saying if he wants to compete in a presteigeous tournament like Proleague anything less than passing qualifications is preferrential treatment in my book. Even Flash had to do it .
@ Polt comment, well he did go overseas didn't he?
On May 03 2012 00:26 SC_Ghost wrote:
On May 03 2012 00:15 TrainSamurai wrote:
On May 03 2012 00:13 SC_Ghost wrote:
On May 03 2012 00:04 NexUmbra wrote:
On May 02 2012 23:58 TrainSamurai wrote:
On May 02 2012 22:48 SC_Ghost wrote:
On May 02 2012 22:11 fabiano wrote:
On May 02 2012 18:23 SC_Ghost wrote: I actually think Kespa still have too much of a Korean-centric focus going forward with SC2. When they were asked about foreign events, Kespa responded with "The main reason we switched to SC II was to put Korea forth as the motherland of esports." I can't see foreigners at Starleague within the next 2 years at least, and that's a huge push that I doubt it will ever happen, whereas I can see OGN conforming with GOMs approach with a more inviting league to foreigners.
Why do foreigners want everything so easy for them? I fucking hate it.
If they want to be good enough to play in SPL, it's their own job to go out there and make themselves known as fucking good players. If they are good I doubt any korean SPL team wouldn't hire them.
This is fucking bullshit. Why should korean leagues be more inviting to foreigners? They should be welcoming the best players in the world, and only them. If it happens that all the best players in the world are koreans, too bad for foreigners.
Happens that we are in a foreigner community and many people in it are so narrow minded that they feel "our" players should deserve a place in whatever korean league is created just because they are foreigners. If you want to play in the best tournament, you have to be the best, just because you are white (or black, or whatever other race) doesn't give you the right to claim a place in such leagues.
"But mommy SPL happens in Korea, I can't play on same foot as the koreans, that's unfair!1!!". Well, fuck you. If you want to play in Korean leagues, go fucking live in Korea. "But I can't, too expensive, cultures too different, language barrier!1!!", fuck you again, the leagues happen in Korea, deal with it. You can't? Too bad, no SPL/OSL for you.
The passport to korean leagues is your own fucking skills, not the fucking race you are.
Perhaps you've interpreted my post in a way I didn't attempt it to be perceived, I take full responsibility for that and I hope you accept my apology. But if we look at every Professional Gaming Competition that's considered of substantial, professional Merit (Such as MLG, IPL, GSL, DH, etc.) they are all inviting a global competition: MLG and IPL invites European and Asian players as well as their 'native' American players; DH does the same, and GSL too. It's established that way so that the global competitive scene grows, not each individual league/nation. It promotes growth across the board, which can only be a good thing.
I have no quarrels with Korea being the home of the best skilled players, it promotes Korean skill-level and makes an impression when a foreigner reaches that level, and like you said: the good enough foreigners will make their own way there. But there's a difference between being inviting of Global Professional Gaming and positioning yourself above that, which (and I don't mean to offend anybody, I'm sorry if I do) I feel is the stance Kespa looks as though they have taken. They have been very critical of themselves with announcing their position to not be undermining of the global competitive scene, but they haven't positioned a stance with embracing it either; which just leaves me personally in an awkward place, thinking: Are they embracing Global Competition, or just acknowledging that it exists?
Either outcome leads to a very different growth of e-sports, both of which the community can perceive to have a negative impact, but which is the lesser of two evils?
EDIT: Just to add: I didn't mean the Korean league need to be inviting of foreigners, of course the foreigners have to earn their place, but I am afraid of the 'new' Korean leagues not embracing the Global scene. I don't want people to confuse Global and Foreign, as a global scene does and should involve the Korean scene.
How dare Kespa treat foriegners like koreans and require them to EARN a pro gaming licence.
Exactly, the GOM process to foreigners is cool and all but imagine if you are a Korean and some white guy gets an invitation to Code A and then proceeds to get utterly destroyed in the first round, it could have been one of the Code B Closet Gosus who had that spot!
Another intriguing opinion, but the fact is (especially with the GOM process) that 'white guy' has actually earned his place there by performing against Code A Korean players in other notable global events. The foreign individuals have made a name for themselves competing against Code A players, doesn't that make them eligible to at least compete to be in Code A?
Yes but the problem is that you're giving foreigners preferrential treatment. No korean would get those sweet bonuses, that is why it is a disgrace; not the pro players, but the league.
Where's the preferential treatment? At MLG, Dreamhack or IPL Stephano beats Code A/Code S players and ranks highly in every event. Does that not make him eligible to at least compete to try and qualify for Code A or Code S?
We were originally talking about Kespa. Proleague is Kespa's.
Kespa should act the same in all honesty. Notable foreigners like Stephano, Naniwa, HuK, Idra and many others; Kespa should acknowledge these players that are of the same caliber as Code A/Code S players and should invited them to qualify for their league, if they don't qualify, fine, better luck next season. That's not a wrong thing to happen, in fact it looks pretty ideal.
Foreign tournaments invite koreans because it is known that overall they are the best players, and the audience wants to watch the best players battle it out.
I'm pretty sure Korea would love to have a foreigner in their league, as long as he is able to compete with the rest of the players with the same or better skills. What they want is not a league full of koreans, but a league full of skilled progamers who can actually provide games worth watching, therefore making their audience ratings grow.
MLG, DH and IPL are seen as inferior tournaments if compared to GSL. Why? Is it because it is full of foreigners? No, it's not because the color of their skin, but because the majority (note that not all) of the players are seen as less skilled than those at GSL.
If you want a truly global league, with the best players from all over the world, then you want something like WCG or that upcoming Blizzard World Championship (or something), where each region of the world gets a seed into the tournament. Unfortunately only koreans are the really good SC players, so WCG skillwise would be much less interesting than say OSL.
If OGN fucks up and add MLG/DH/IPL seeds, they would lose prestige I believe.
On May 03 2012 00:29 TrainSamurai wrote: No. If I had my way he would have to go through qualifiers. Then again I'm not sure how GSL format even works, too confusing. Just saying if he wants to compete in a presteigeous tournament like Proleague anything less than passing qualifications is preferrential treatment in my book. Even Flash had to do it .
@ Polt comment, well he did go overseas didn't he?
On May 03 2012 00:26 SC_Ghost wrote:
On May 03 2012 00:15 TrainSamurai wrote:
On May 03 2012 00:13 SC_Ghost wrote:
On May 03 2012 00:04 NexUmbra wrote:
On May 02 2012 23:58 TrainSamurai wrote:
On May 02 2012 22:48 SC_Ghost wrote:
On May 02 2012 22:11 fabiano wrote: [quote]
Why do foreigners want everything so easy for them? I fucking hate it.
If they want to be good enough to play in SPL, it's their own job to go out there and make themselves known as fucking good players. If they are good I doubt any korean SPL team wouldn't hire them.
This is fucking bullshit. Why should korean leagues be more inviting to foreigners? They should be welcoming the best players in the world, and only them. If it happens that all the best players in the world are koreans, too bad for foreigners.
Happens that we are in a foreigner community and many people in it are so narrow minded that they feel "our" players should deserve a place in whatever korean league is created just because they are foreigners. If you want to play in the best tournament, you have to be the best, just because you are white (or black, or whatever other race) doesn't give you the right to claim a place in such leagues.
"But mommy SPL happens in Korea, I can't play on same foot as the koreans, that's unfair!1!!". Well, fuck you. If you want to play in Korean leagues, go fucking live in Korea. "But I can't, too expensive, cultures too different, language barrier!1!!", fuck you again, the leagues happen in Korea, deal with it. You can't? Too bad, no SPL/OSL for you.
The passport to korean leagues is your own fucking skills, not the fucking race you are.
Perhaps you've interpreted my post in a way I didn't attempt it to be perceived, I take full responsibility for that and I hope you accept my apology. But if we look at every Professional Gaming Competition that's considered of substantial, professional Merit (Such as MLG, IPL, GSL, DH, etc.) they are all inviting a global competition: MLG and IPL invites European and Asian players as well as their 'native' American players; DH does the same, and GSL too. It's established that way so that the global competitive scene grows, not each individual league/nation. It promotes growth across the board, which can only be a good thing.
I have no quarrels with Korea being the home of the best skilled players, it promotes Korean skill-level and makes an impression when a foreigner reaches that level, and like you said: the good enough foreigners will make their own way there. But there's a difference between being inviting of Global Professional Gaming and positioning yourself above that, which (and I don't mean to offend anybody, I'm sorry if I do) I feel is the stance Kespa looks as though they have taken. They have been very critical of themselves with announcing their position to not be undermining of the global competitive scene, but they haven't positioned a stance with embracing it either; which just leaves me personally in an awkward place, thinking: Are they embracing Global Competition, or just acknowledging that it exists?
Either outcome leads to a very different growth of e-sports, both of which the community can perceive to have a negative impact, but which is the lesser of two evils?
EDIT: Just to add: I didn't mean the Korean league need to be inviting of foreigners, of course the foreigners have to earn their place, but I am afraid of the 'new' Korean leagues not embracing the Global scene. I don't want people to confuse Global and Foreign, as a global scene does and should involve the Korean scene.
How dare Kespa treat foriegners like koreans and require them to EARN a pro gaming licence.
Exactly, the GOM process to foreigners is cool and all but imagine if you are a Korean and some white guy gets an invitation to Code A and then proceeds to get utterly destroyed in the first round, it could have been one of the Code B Closet Gosus who had that spot!
Another intriguing opinion, but the fact is (especially with the GOM process) that 'white guy' has actually earned his place there by performing against Code A Korean players in other notable global events. The foreign individuals have made a name for themselves competing against Code A players, doesn't that make them eligible to at least compete to be in Code A?
Yes but the problem is that you're giving foreigners preferrential treatment. No korean would get those sweet bonuses, that is why it is a disgrace; not the pro players, but the league.
Where's the preferential treatment? At MLG, Dreamhack or IPL Stephano beats Code A/Code S players and ranks highly in every event. Does that not make him eligible to at least compete to try and qualify for Code A or Code S?
We were originally talking about Kespa. Proleague is Kespa's.
Kespa should act the same in all honesty. Notable foreigners like Stephano, Naniwa, HuK, Idra and many others; Kespa should acknowledge these players that are of the same caliber as Code A/Code S players and should invited them to qualify for their league, if they don't qualify, fine, better luck next season. That's not a wrong thing to happen, in fact it looks pretty ideal.
Right now in BW they can if they want. Maybe you read some idiotic Kespa conspiracy on the sc2 forum which has lead to this confusing convo:/.
On May 03 2012 00:37 fabiano wrote: Foreign tournaments invite koreans because it is known that overall they are the best players, and the audience wants to watch the best players battle it out.
I'm pretty sure Korea would love to have a foreigner in their league, as long as he is able to compete with the rest of the players with the same or better skills. What they want is not a league full of koreans, but a league full of skilled progamers who can actually provide games worth watching, therefore making their audience ratings grow.
MLG, DH and IPL are seen as inferior tournaments if compared to GSL. Why? Is it because it is full of foreigners? No, it's not because the color of their skin, but because the majority (note that not all) of the players are seen as less skilled than those at GSL.
If you want a truly global league, with the best players from all over the world, then you want something like WCG or that upcoming Blizzard World Championship (or something), where each region of the world gets a seed into the tournament. Unfortunately only koreans are the really good SC players, so WCG skillwise would be much less interesting than say OSL.
If OGN fucks up and add MLG/DH/IPL seeds, they would lose prestige I believe.
The idea isn't to seed the players, it's to invite them to try and qualify. The rest of your post is hazy, I would prefer not to get into an enveloping shitstorm.
On May 03 2012 00:29 TrainSamurai wrote: No. If I had my way he would have to go through qualifiers. Then again I'm not sure how GSL format even works, too confusing. Just saying if he wants to compete in a presteigeous tournament like Proleague anything less than passing qualifications is preferrential treatment in my book. Even Flash had to do it .
@ Polt comment, well he did go overseas didn't he?
On May 03 2012 00:26 SC_Ghost wrote:
On May 03 2012 00:15 TrainSamurai wrote:
On May 03 2012 00:13 SC_Ghost wrote:
On May 03 2012 00:04 NexUmbra wrote:
On May 02 2012 23:58 TrainSamurai wrote:
On May 02 2012 22:48 SC_Ghost wrote: [quote]
Perhaps you've interpreted my post in a way I didn't attempt it to be perceived, I take full responsibility for that and I hope you accept my apology. But if we look at every Professional Gaming Competition that's considered of substantial, professional Merit (Such as MLG, IPL, GSL, DH, etc.) they are all inviting a global competition: MLG and IPL invites European and Asian players as well as their 'native' American players; DH does the same, and GSL too. It's established that way so that the global competitive scene grows, not each individual league/nation. It promotes growth across the board, which can only be a good thing.
I have no quarrels with Korea being the home of the best skilled players, it promotes Korean skill-level and makes an impression when a foreigner reaches that level, and like you said: the good enough foreigners will make their own way there. But there's a difference between being inviting of Global Professional Gaming and positioning yourself above that, which (and I don't mean to offend anybody, I'm sorry if I do) I feel is the stance Kespa looks as though they have taken. They have been very critical of themselves with announcing their position to not be undermining of the global competitive scene, but they haven't positioned a stance with embracing it either; which just leaves me personally in an awkward place, thinking: Are they embracing Global Competition, or just acknowledging that it exists?
Either outcome leads to a very different growth of e-sports, both of which the community can perceive to have a negative impact, but which is the lesser of two evils?
EDIT: Just to add: I didn't mean the Korean league need to be inviting of foreigners, of course the foreigners have to earn their place, but I am afraid of the 'new' Korean leagues not embracing the Global scene. I don't want people to confuse Global and Foreign, as a global scene does and should involve the Korean scene.
How dare Kespa treat foriegners like koreans and require them to EARN a pro gaming licence.
Exactly, the GOM process to foreigners is cool and all but imagine if you are a Korean and some white guy gets an invitation to Code A and then proceeds to get utterly destroyed in the first round, it could have been one of the Code B Closet Gosus who had that spot!
Another intriguing opinion, but the fact is (especially with the GOM process) that 'white guy' has actually earned his place there by performing against Code A Korean players in other notable global events. The foreign individuals have made a name for themselves competing against Code A players, doesn't that make them eligible to at least compete to be in Code A?
Yes but the problem is that you're giving foreigners preferrential treatment. No korean would get those sweet bonuses, that is why it is a disgrace; not the pro players, but the league.
Where's the preferential treatment? At MLG, Dreamhack or IPL Stephano beats Code A/Code S players and ranks highly in every event. Does that not make him eligible to at least compete to try and qualify for Code A or Code S?
We were originally talking about Kespa. Proleague is Kespa's.
Kespa should act the same in all honesty. Notable foreigners like Stephano, Naniwa, HuK, Idra and many others; Kespa should acknowledge these players that are of the same caliber as Code A/Code S players and should invited them to qualify for their league, if they don't qualify, fine, better luck next season. That's not a wrong thing to happen, in fact it looks pretty ideal.
Right now in BW they can if they want. Maybe you read some idiotic Kespa conspiracy on the sc2 forum which has lead to this confusing convo:/.
Perhaps so, perhaps it's the way Kespa is portrayed. I still noticed something about Kespa's stance on the matter at the conference but my knowledge is only as good as what I'm told (reporters, tweets, etc.)
On May 03 2012 00:37 fabiano wrote: Foreign tournaments invite koreans because it is known that overall they are the best players, and the audience wants to watch the best players battle it out.
I'm pretty sure Korea would love to have a foreigner in their league, as long as he is able to compete with the rest of the players with the same or better skills. What they want is not a league full of koreans, but a league full of skilled progamers who can actually provide games worth watching, therefore making their audience ratings grow.
MLG, DH and IPL are seen as inferior tournaments if compared to GSL. Why? Is it because it is full of foreigners? No, it's not because the color of their skin, but because the majority (note that not all) of the players are seen as less skilled than those at GSL.
If you want a truly global league, with the best players from all over the world, then you want something like WCG or that upcoming Blizzard World Championship (or something), where each region of the world gets a seed into the tournament. Unfortunately only koreans are the really good SC players, so WCG skillwise would be much less interesting than say OSL.
If OGN fucks up and add MLG/DH/IPL seeds, they would lose prestige I believe.
The idea isn't to seed the players, it's to invite them to try and qualify. The rest of your post is hazy, I would prefer not to get into an enveloping shitstorm.
And they're welcomed to. Kespa is not actively barring anyone. If stephano cannot be assed competing against Flash then that is his problem. That is how prestiege is builty, a top tournament should be able to attract competitors not the other way around.
its really sad that the only person people know is flash...there are a plethora of amazing players, yes flash is the best but the rest also amazing players.
Meh, once they see Bisu, they won't be able to look away
SC2 players aren't nearly as pretty
We have someone called Mini Bisu...
Imitators are never as good as the original. Besides, the Revolutionist invented Forge FFE, imagine what he can do for SC2...
*cough* nal_rA
Dang, I thought he did, or some variation of it?
Hehe. The bisu build is not only the forge FE. What he did against savior was more than just a fancy wall. Nal_ra used walls way before bisu 3-0'ed savior
On May 02 2012 18:23 SC_Ghost wrote: I actually think Kespa still have too much of a Korean-centric focus going forward with SC2. When they were asked about foreign events, Kespa responded with "The main reason we switched to SC II was to put Korea forth as the motherland of esports." I can't see foreigners at Starleague within the next 2 years at least, and that's a huge push that I doubt it will ever happen, whereas I can see OGN conforming with GOMs approach with a more inviting league to foreigners.
Why do foreigners want everything so easy for them? I fucking hate it.
If they want to be good enough to play in SPL, it's their own job to go out there and make themselves known as fucking good players. If they are good I doubt any korean SPL team wouldn't hire them.
This is fucking bullshit. Why should korean leagues be more inviting to foreigners? They should be welcoming the best players in the world, and only them. If it happens that all the best players in the world are koreans, too bad for foreigners.
Happens that we are in a foreigner community and many people in it are so narrow minded that they feel "our" players should deserve a place in whatever korean league is created just because they are foreigners. If you want to play in the best tournament, you have to be the best, just because you are white (or black, or whatever other race) doesn't give you the right to claim a place in such leagues.
"But mommy SPL happens in Korea, I can't play on same foot as the koreans, that's unfair!1!!". Well, fuck you. If you want to play in Korean leagues, go fucking live in Korea. "But I can't, too expensive, cultures too different, language barrier!1!!", fuck you again, the leagues happen in Korea, deal with it. You can't? Too bad, no SPL/OSL for you.
The passport to korean leagues is your own fucking skills, not the fucking race you are.
Perhaps you've interpreted my post in a way I didn't attempt it to be perceived, I take full responsibility for that and I hope you accept my apology. But if we look at every Professional Gaming Competition that's considered of substantial, professional Merit (Such as MLG, IPL, GSL, DH, etc.) they are all inviting a global competition: MLG and IPL invites European and Asian players as well as their 'native' American players; DH does the same, and GSL too. It's established that way so that the global competitive scene grows, not each individual league/nation. It promotes growth across the board, which can only be a good thing.
I have no quarrels with Korea being the home of the best skilled players, it promotes Korean skill-level and makes an impression when a foreigner reaches that level, and like you said: the good enough foreigners will make their own way there. But there's a difference between being inviting of Global Professional Gaming and positioning yourself above that, which (and I don't mean to offend anybody, I'm sorry if I do) I feel is the stance Kespa looks as though they have taken. They have been very critical of themselves with announcing their position to not be undermining of the global competitive scene, but they haven't positioned a stance with embracing it either; which just leaves me personally in an awkward place, thinking: Are they embracing Global Competition, or just acknowledging that it exists?
Either outcome leads to a very different growth of e-sports, both of which the community can perceive to have a negative impact, but which is the lesser of two evils?
EDIT: Just to add: I didn't mean the Korean league need to be inviting of foreigners, of course the foreigners have to earn their place, but I am afraid of the 'new' Korean leagues not embracing the Global scene. I don't want people to confuse Global and Foreign, as a global scene does and should involve the Korean scene.
How dare Kespa treat foriegners like koreans and require them to EARN a pro gaming licence.
Exactly, the GOM process to foreigners is cool and all but imagine if you are a Korean and some white guy gets an invitation to Code A and then proceeds to get utterly destroyed in the first round, it could have been one of the Code B Closet Gosus who had that spot!
Another intriguing opinion, but the fact is (especially with the GOM process) that 'white guy' has actually earned his place there by performing against Code A Korean players in other notable global events. The foreign individuals have made a name for themselves competing against Code A players, doesn't that make them eligible to at least compete to be in Code A?
Yes but the problem is that you're giving foreigners preferrential treatment. No korean would get those sweet bonuses, that is why it is a disgrace; not the pro players, but the league.
Would you also suggest that in order to practicipate in a foreign tournemant, a Korean should live in the county of the tournemant for a month+?
On May 02 2012 23:56 Sum41 wrote: this is a shit, they change broodwar for a inferior game just because of the $$, don't matter what you say, starcraft broodwar is much better. and Sc2 will never be as good as BW, won't last for so long, and as well as BW did
This are good games, not like the boring stuff from Sc2!, watch it and learn what's really awesome. nothing in Sc2 will be compared to the feeling that bring this game, or The Jangbi vs Fantasy finals, Jaedong vs Stork in The OSL Ever Finals, etc.
While i agree with the elitism of BW, it being a harder or more complex game and it being a better candidate for esports, in terms of technology it is simply outdated. Unfortunately the game uses technology that is 15 years old. When technology ages someone else develops a new version to replace it. Again, unfortunately, that is the case here: A large portion of why BW is being made redundant is because the technology is so outdated.
the only thing that the technology has done is give better graphic to Sc2, in all the other aspects BW is superior. and play a game just for the graphics is like watch a porn movie for the argument -_-;
that's why it's reatarded to kill BW, for a dumb game like SC2
Bad comparison. You could compare old graphics with porn, but you would have to compare VHS vs Blueray or something. Also i personally dont agree that BW is the better game. Thats just my opinion though.
On topic. I really hope that the speculations about the old bw players and the sc2 players beeing able to participate in any league comes true. I want to see the best players to compete in all tournaments they chose to do so. I dont want to see a division or something even more stupid. For me its a good sign that all the parties seem to be talking and that Kespa seems to try a global approach with SC2. Now all i need is LAN Blizzard. Your stupid excuses fool noone!
On May 02 2012 18:23 SC_Ghost wrote: I actually think Kespa still have too much of a Korean-centric focus going forward with SC2. When they were asked about foreign events, Kespa responded with "The main reason we switched to SC II was to put Korea forth as the motherland of esports." I can't see foreigners at Starleague within the next 2 years at least, and that's a huge push that I doubt it will ever happen, whereas I can see OGN conforming with GOMs approach with a more inviting league to foreigners.
Why do foreigners want everything so easy for them? I fucking hate it.
If they want to be good enough to play in SPL, it's their own job to go out there and make themselves known as fucking good players. If they are good I doubt any korean SPL team wouldn't hire them.
This is fucking bullshit. Why should korean leagues be more inviting to foreigners? They should be welcoming the best players in the world, and only them. If it happens that all the best players in the world are koreans, too bad for foreigners.
Happens that we are in a foreigner community and many people in it are so narrow minded that they feel "our" players should deserve a place in whatever korean league is created just because they are foreigners. If you want to play in the best tournament, you have to be the best, just because you are white (or black, or whatever other race) doesn't give you the right to claim a place in such leagues.
"But mommy SPL happens in Korea, I can't play on same foot as the koreans, that's unfair!1!!". Well, fuck you. If you want to play in Korean leagues, go fucking live in Korea. "But I can't, too expensive, cultures too different, language barrier!1!!", fuck you again, the leagues happen in Korea, deal with it. You can't? Too bad, no SPL/OSL for you.
The passport to korean leagues is your own fucking skills, not the fucking race you are.
Perhaps you've interpreted my post in a way I didn't attempt it to be perceived, I take full responsibility for that and I hope you accept my apology. But if we look at every Professional Gaming Competition that's considered of substantial, professional Merit (Such as MLG, IPL, GSL, DH, etc.) they are all inviting a global competition: MLG and IPL invites European and Asian players as well as their 'native' American players; DH does the same, and GSL too. It's established that way so that the global competitive scene grows, not each individual league/nation. It promotes growth across the board, which can only be a good thing.
I have no quarrels with Korea being the home of the best skilled players, it promotes Korean skill-level and makes an impression when a foreigner reaches that level, and like you said: the good enough foreigners will make their own way there. But there's a difference between being inviting of Global Professional Gaming and positioning yourself above that, which (and I don't mean to offend anybody, I'm sorry if I do) I feel is the stance Kespa looks as though they have taken. They have been very critical of themselves with announcing their position to not be undermining of the global competitive scene, but they haven't positioned a stance with embracing it either; which just leaves me personally in an awkward place, thinking: Are they embracing Global Competition, or just acknowledging that it exists?
Either outcome leads to a very different growth of e-sports, both of which the community can perceive to have a negative impact, but which is the lesser of two evils?
EDIT: Just to add: I didn't mean the Korean league need to be inviting of foreigners, of course the foreigners have to earn their place, but I am afraid of the 'new' Korean leagues not embracing the Global scene. I don't want people to confuse Global and Foreign, as a global scene does and should involve the Korean scene.
How dare Kespa treat foriegners like koreans and require them to EARN a pro gaming licence.
Exactly, the GOM process to foreigners is cool and all but imagine if you are a Korean and some white guy gets an invitation to Code A and then proceeds to get utterly destroyed in the first round, it could have been one of the Code B Closet Gosus who had that spot!
Another intriguing opinion, but the fact is (especially with the GOM process) that 'white guy' has actually earned his place there by performing against Code A Korean players in other notable global events. The foreign individuals have made a name for themselves competing against Code A players, doesn't that make them eligible to at least compete to be in Code A?
Yes but the problem is that you're giving foreigners preferrential treatment. No korean would get those sweet bonuses, that is why it is a disgrace; not the pro players, but the league.
Would you also suggest that in order to practicipate in a foreign tournemant, a Korean should live in the county of the tournemant for a month+?
That's just to even things up you know.
The difference is that the highest level of play is with Koreans, not foreigners.
The problem is not in accomodating foreigners, but accomodating undeserving players. KeSPA doesn't run invitational tournaments, but that does not mean non-Koreans are banned; they just have to go thru the same selection process as everybody else. It just happens that in the BW era, no foreigner was good enough.
What people also forget is that Courage was not the only way to get in.
On May 02 2012 18:23 SC_Ghost wrote: I actually think Kespa still have too much of a Korean-centric focus going forward with SC2. When they were asked about foreign events, Kespa responded with "The main reason we switched to SC II was to put Korea forth as the motherland of esports." I can't see foreigners at Starleague within the next 2 years at least, and that's a huge push that I doubt it will ever happen, whereas I can see OGN conforming with GOMs approach with a more inviting league to foreigners.
Why do foreigners want everything so easy for them? I fucking hate it.
If they want to be good enough to play in SPL, it's their own job to go out there and make themselves known as fucking good players. If they are good I doubt any korean SPL team wouldn't hire them.
This is fucking bullshit. Why should korean leagues be more inviting to foreigners? They should be welcoming the best players in the world, and only them. If it happens that all the best players in the world are koreans, too bad for foreigners.
Happens that we are in a foreigner community and many people in it are so narrow minded that they feel "our" players should deserve a place in whatever korean league is created just because they are foreigners. If you want to play in the best tournament, you have to be the best, just because you are white (or black, or whatever other race) doesn't give you the right to claim a place in such leagues.
"But mommy SPL happens in Korea, I can't play on same foot as the koreans, that's unfair!1!!". Well, fuck you. If you want to play in Korean leagues, go fucking live in Korea. "But I can't, too expensive, cultures too different, language barrier!1!!", fuck you again, the leagues happen in Korea, deal with it. You can't? Too bad, no SPL/OSL for you.
The passport to korean leagues is your own fucking skills, not the fucking race you are.
Perhaps you've interpreted my post in a way I didn't attempt it to be perceived, I take full responsibility for that and I hope you accept my apology. But if we look at every Professional Gaming Competition that's considered of substantial, professional Merit (Such as MLG, IPL, GSL, DH, etc.) they are all inviting a global competition: MLG and IPL invites European and Asian players as well as their 'native' American players; DH does the same, and GSL too. It's established that way so that the global competitive scene grows, not each individual league/nation. It promotes growth across the board, which can only be a good thing.
I have no quarrels with Korea being the home of the best skilled players, it promotes Korean skill-level and makes an impression when a foreigner reaches that level, and like you said: the good enough foreigners will make their own way there. But there's a difference between being inviting of Global Professional Gaming and positioning yourself above that, which (and I don't mean to offend anybody, I'm sorry if I do) I feel is the stance Kespa looks as though they have taken. They have been very critical of themselves with announcing their position to not be undermining of the global competitive scene, but they haven't positioned a stance with embracing it either; which just leaves me personally in an awkward place, thinking: Are they embracing Global Competition, or just acknowledging that it exists?
Either outcome leads to a very different growth of e-sports, both of which the community can perceive to have a negative impact, but which is the lesser of two evils?
EDIT: Just to add: I didn't mean the Korean league need to be inviting of foreigners, of course the foreigners have to earn their place, but I am afraid of the 'new' Korean leagues not embracing the Global scene. I don't want people to confuse Global and Foreign, as a global scene does and should involve the Korean scene.
How dare Kespa treat foriegners like koreans and require them to EARN a pro gaming licence.
Exactly, the GOM process to foreigners is cool and all but imagine if you are a Korean and some white guy gets an invitation to Code A and then proceeds to get utterly destroyed in the first round, it could have been one of the Code B Closet Gosus who had that spot!
Another intriguing opinion, but the fact is (especially with the GOM process) that 'white guy' has actually earned his place there by performing against Code A Korean players in other notable global events. The foreign individuals have made a name for themselves competing against Code A players, doesn't that make them eligible to at least compete to be in Code A?
Yes but the problem is that you're giving foreigners preferrential treatment. No korean would get those sweet bonuses, that is why it is a disgrace; not the pro players, but the league.
Would you also suggest that in order to practicipate in a foreign tournemant, a Korean should live in the county of the tournemant for a month+?
That's just to even things up you know.
The difference is that the highest level of play is with Koreans, not foreigners.
The problem is not in accomodating foreigners, but accomodating undeserving players. KeSPA doesn't run invitational tournaments, but that does not mean non-Koreans are banned; they just have to go thru the same selection process as everybody else; it just happens that in the BW era, no foreigner was good enough.
It also happened to be, that the foreign scene was so small, that it would not have made any sense to accomodate foreing players. The situation is very different with SC2. GSL profits from foreign players due to more viewers and more money. The same way foreign tournaments profit greatly from korean players due to more viewers and more money.
Now the reasons for why people want to see either players might be different (skill-level/ identification-figure), but every league today profits from having koreans and foreigners compete with each other. KESPA or the GSL might not need foreign viewers to be successfull, but why wouldn`t they try to get them? If the are lucky and a foreigner has an unexpected good run, even better for them. It costs them very little and it can profit them greatly.
All that matters is this merging of SCII and SC:BW organizations, sponsors, players and fans. Shit's gonna be BIG. Drooling even with nothing in my head. There's too much empty space for imagination for what could happen in the future.
On May 02 2012 18:23 SC_Ghost wrote: I actually think Kespa still have too much of a Korean-centric focus going forward with SC2. When they were asked about foreign events, Kespa responded with "The main reason we switched to SC II was to put Korea forth as the motherland of esports." I can't see foreigners at Starleague within the next 2 years at least, and that's a huge push that I doubt it will ever happen, whereas I can see OGN conforming with GOMs approach with a more inviting league to foreigners.
Why do foreigners want everything so easy for them? I fucking hate it.
If they want to be good enough to play in SPL, it's their own job to go out there and make themselves known as fucking good players. If they are good I doubt any korean SPL team wouldn't hire them.
This is fucking bullshit. Why should korean leagues be more inviting to foreigners? They should be welcoming the best players in the world, and only them. If it happens that all the best players in the world are koreans, too bad for foreigners.
Happens that we are in a foreigner community and many people in it are so narrow minded that they feel "our" players should deserve a place in whatever korean league is created just because they are foreigners. If you want to play in the best tournament, you have to be the best, just because you are white (or black, or whatever other race) doesn't give you the right to claim a place in such leagues.
"But mommy SPL happens in Korea, I can't play on same foot as the koreans, that's unfair!1!!". Well, fuck you. If you want to play in Korean leagues, go fucking live in Korea. "But I can't, too expensive, cultures too different, language barrier!1!!", fuck you again, the leagues happen in Korea, deal with it. You can't? Too bad, no SPL/OSL for you.
The passport to korean leagues is your own fucking skills, not the fucking race you are.
Perhaps you've interpreted my post in a way I didn't attempt it to be perceived, I take full responsibility for that and I hope you accept my apology. But if we look at every Professional Gaming Competition that's considered of substantial, professional Merit (Such as MLG, IPL, GSL, DH, etc.) they are all inviting a global competition: MLG and IPL invites European and Asian players as well as their 'native' American players; DH does the same, and GSL too. It's established that way so that the global competitive scene grows, not each individual league/nation. It promotes growth across the board, which can only be a good thing.
I have no quarrels with Korea being the home of the best skilled players, it promotes Korean skill-level and makes an impression when a foreigner reaches that level, and like you said: the good enough foreigners will make their own way there. But there's a difference between being inviting of Global Professional Gaming and positioning yourself above that, which (and I don't mean to offend anybody, I'm sorry if I do) I feel is the stance Kespa looks as though they have taken. They have been very critical of themselves with announcing their position to not be undermining of the global competitive scene, but they haven't positioned a stance with embracing it either; which just leaves me personally in an awkward place, thinking: Are they embracing Global Competition, or just acknowledging that it exists?
Either outcome leads to a very different growth of e-sports, both of which the community can perceive to have a negative impact, but which is the lesser of two evils?
EDIT: Just to add: I didn't mean the Korean league need to be inviting of foreigners, of course the foreigners have to earn their place, but I am afraid of the 'new' Korean leagues not embracing the Global scene. I don't want people to confuse Global and Foreign, as a global scene does and should involve the Korean scene.
How dare Kespa treat foriegners like koreans and require them to EARN a pro gaming licence.
Exactly, the GOM process to foreigners is cool and all but imagine if you are a Korean and some white guy gets an invitation to Code A and then proceeds to get utterly destroyed in the first round, it could have been one of the Code B Closet Gosus who had that spot!
Another intriguing opinion, but the fact is (especially with the GOM process) that 'white guy' has actually earned his place there by performing against Code A Korean players in other notable global events. The foreign individuals have made a name for themselves competing against Code A players, doesn't that make them eligible to at least compete to be in Code A?
Yes but the problem is that you're giving foreigners preferrential treatment. No korean would get those sweet bonuses, that is why it is a disgrace; not the pro players, but the league.
Would you also suggest that in order to practicipate in a foreign tournemant, a Korean should live in the county of the tournemant for a month+?
That's just to even things up you know.
The difference is that the highest level of play is with Koreans, not foreigners.
The problem is not in accomodating foreigners, but accomodating undeserving players. KeSPA doesn't run invitational tournaments, but that does not mean non-Koreans are banned; they just have to go thru the same selection process as everybody else; it just happens that in the BW era, no foreigner was good enough.
It also happened to be, that the foreign scene was so small, that it would not have made any sense to accomodate foreing players. The situation is very different with SC2. GSL profits from foreign players due to more viewers and more money. The same way foreign tournaments profit greatly from korean players due to more viewers and more money.
Now the reasons for why people want to see either players might be different (skill-level/ identification-figure), but every league today profits from having koreans and foreigners compete with each other. KESPA or the GSL might not need foreign viewers to be successfull, but why wouldn`t they try to get them? If the are lucky and a foreigner has an unexpected good run, even better for them. It costs them very little and it can profit them greatly.
But they did get accomodated. Nony made a lot of progress but decided to get back before winning Courage. Idra was given a license, but never was good enough for A team.
It does make sense to make invitational events where players of different origin/groups compete against each other. But expecting -or demanding- that KeSPA core tournaments should follow GSL or MLG is a bit far. Proleague and OSL are the most prestigious tournaments for a reason.
i cannot wait for more and more bw players to switch to sc2! i also think it's great to have more than 1 major sc2 tournament in korea. the competition should raise the quality as well. i'm also super excited about the sc2 pro league! sc2 deserves a league as the gsl is no league at all! it is a 2class tournament with code s and a. gst would fit sooo much better, but it just sounds bad... alternatively i would love for gsl to transition into a league!
On May 02 2012 23:56 Sum41 wrote: this is a shit, they change broodwar for a inferior game just because of the $$, don't matter what you say, starcraft broodwar is much better. and Sc2 will never be as good as BW, won't last for so long, and as well as BW did
This are good games, not like the boring stuff from Sc2!, watch it and learn what's really awesome. nothing in Sc2 will be compared to the feeling that bring this game, or The Jangbi vs Fantasy finals, Jaedong vs Stork in The OSL Ever Finals, etc.
While i agree with the elitism of BW, it being a harder or more complex game and it being a better candidate for esports, in terms of technology it is simply outdated. Unfortunately the game uses technology that is 15 years old. When technology ages someone else develops a new version to replace it. Again, unfortunately, that is the case here: A large portion of why BW is being made redundant is because the technology is so outdated.
the only thing that the technology has done is give better graphic to Sc2, in all the other aspects BW is superior. and play a game just for the graphics is like watch a porn movie for the argument -_-;
that's why it's reatarded to kill BW, for a dumb game like SC2
Bad comparison. You could compare old graphics with porn, but you would have to compare VHS vs Blueray or something. Also i personally dont agree that BW is the better game. Thats just my opinion though.
On topic. I really hope that the speculations about the old bw players and the sc2 players beeing able to participate in any league comes true. I want to see the best players to compete in all tournaments they chose to do so. I dont want to see a division or something even more stupid. For me its a good sign that all the parties seem to be talking and that Kespa seems to try a global approach with SC2. Now all i need is LAN Blizzard. Your stupid excuses fool noone!
if you think that SC broodwar isn't a better game, then you don't know anything about broodwar. it's much more strategic, it's more complex, requires more skill. i think that you have never played Broodwar, people that hasn't played it, or don't know too much about it, doesn't know how deep the gameplay is.
And SC2 has been made to casual players, you don't need great skill to play it at a decent level, or lot of knowledge to be good
On May 02 2012 23:56 Sum41 wrote: this is a shit, they change broodwar for a inferior game just because of the $$, don't matter what you say, starcraft broodwar is much better. and Sc2 will never be as good as BW, won't last for so long, and as well as BW did
This are good games, not like the boring stuff from Sc2!, watch it and learn what's really awesome. nothing in Sc2 will be compared to the feeling that bring this game, or The Jangbi vs Fantasy finals, Jaedong vs Stork in The OSL Ever Finals, etc.
While i agree with the elitism of BW, it being a harder or more complex game and it being a better candidate for esports, in terms of technology it is simply outdated. Unfortunately the game uses technology that is 15 years old. When technology ages someone else develops a new version to replace it. Again, unfortunately, that is the case here: A large portion of why BW is being made redundant is because the technology is so outdated.
the only thing that the technology has done is give better graphic to Sc2, in all the other aspects BW is superior. and play a game just for the graphics is like watch a porn movie for the argument -_-;
that's why it's reatarded to kill BW, for a dumb game like SC2
Bad comparison. You could compare old graphics with porn, but you would have to compare VHS vs Blueray or something. Also i personally dont agree that BW is the better game. Thats just my opinion though.
On topic. I really hope that the speculations about the old bw players and the sc2 players beeing able to participate in any league comes true. I want to see the best players to compete in all tournaments they chose to do so. I dont want to see a division or something even more stupid. For me its a good sign that all the parties seem to be talking and that Kespa seems to try a global approach with SC2. Now all i need is LAN Blizzard. Your stupid excuses fool noone!
if you think that SC broodwar isn't a better game, then you don't know anything about broodwar. it's much more strategic, it's more complex, requires more skill. i think that you have never played Broodwar, people that hasn't played it, or don't know too much about it, doesn't know how deep the gameplay is.
And SC2 has been made to casual players, you don't need great skill to play it at a decent level, or lot of knowledge to be good
I know you're mad, but you can stop it now. We're not getting anything from your argument other than you shitting on SC2.
On May 02 2012 23:56 Sum41 wrote: this is a shit, they change broodwar for a inferior game just because of the $$, don't matter what you say, starcraft broodwar is much better. and Sc2 will never be as good as BW, won't last for so long, and as well as BW did
This are good games, not like the boring stuff from Sc2!, watch it and learn what's really awesome. nothing in Sc2 will be compared to the feeling that bring this game, or The Jangbi vs Fantasy finals, Jaedong vs Stork in The OSL Ever Finals, etc.
While i agree with the elitism of BW, it being a harder or more complex game and it being a better candidate for esports, in terms of technology it is simply outdated. Unfortunately the game uses technology that is 15 years old. When technology ages someone else develops a new version to replace it. Again, unfortunately, that is the case here: A large portion of why BW is being made redundant is because the technology is so outdated.
the only thing that the technology has done is give better graphic to Sc2, in all the other aspects BW is superior. and play a game just for the graphics is like watch a porn movie for the argument -_-;
that's why it's reatarded to kill BW, for a dumb game like SC2
Bad comparison. You could compare old graphics with porn, but you would have to compare VHS vs Blueray or something. Also i personally dont agree that BW is the better game. Thats just my opinion though.
On topic. I really hope that the speculations about the old bw players and the sc2 players beeing able to participate in any league comes true. I want to see the best players to compete in all tournaments they chose to do so. I dont want to see a division or something even more stupid. For me its a good sign that all the parties seem to be talking and that Kespa seems to try a global approach with SC2. Now all i need is LAN Blizzard. Your stupid excuses fool noone!
if you think that SC broodwar isn't a better game, then you don't know anything about broodwar. it's much more strategic, it's more complex, requires more skill. i think that you have never played Broodwar, people that hasn't played it, or don't know too much about it, doesn't know how deep the gameplay is.
And SC2 has been made to casual players, you don't need great skill to play it at a decent level, or lot of knowledge to be good
I know you're mad, but you can stop it now. We're not getting anything from your argument other than you shitting on SC2.
On May 03 2012 03:11 howLiN wrote: So, when are we gonna get the interviews?
On May 03 2012 02:49 Sum41 wrote:
On May 03 2012 01:45 BlueFlames wrote:
On May 03 2012 00:29 Sum41 wrote:
On May 03 2012 00:08 SC_Ghost wrote:
On May 02 2012 23:56 Sum41 wrote: this is a shit, they change broodwar for a inferior game just because of the $$, don't matter what you say, starcraft broodwar is much better. and Sc2 will never be as good as BW, won't last for so long, and as well as BW did
This are good games, not like the boring stuff from Sc2!, watch it and learn what's really awesome. nothing in Sc2 will be compared to the feeling that bring this game, or The Jangbi vs Fantasy finals, Jaedong vs Stork in The OSL Ever Finals, etc.
While i agree with the elitism of BW, it being a harder or more complex game and it being a better candidate for esports, in terms of technology it is simply outdated. Unfortunately the game uses technology that is 15 years old. When technology ages someone else develops a new version to replace it. Again, unfortunately, that is the case here: A large portion of why BW is being made redundant is because the technology is so outdated.
the only thing that the technology has done is give better graphic to Sc2, in all the other aspects BW is superior. and play a game just for the graphics is like watch a porn movie for the argument -_-;
that's why it's reatarded to kill BW, for a dumb game like SC2
Bad comparison. You could compare old graphics with porn, but you would have to compare VHS vs Blueray or something. Also i personally dont agree that BW is the better game. Thats just my opinion though.
On topic. I really hope that the speculations about the old bw players and the sc2 players beeing able to participate in any league comes true. I want to see the best players to compete in all tournaments they chose to do so. I dont want to see a division or something even more stupid. For me its a good sign that all the parties seem to be talking and that Kespa seems to try a global approach with SC2. Now all i need is LAN Blizzard. Your stupid excuses fool noone!
if you think that SC broodwar isn't a better game, then you don't know anything about broodwar. it's much more strategic, it's more complex, requires more skill. i think that you have never played Broodwar, people that hasn't played it, or don't know too much about it, doesn't know how deep the gameplay is.
And SC2 has been made to casual players, you don't need great skill to play it at a decent level, or lot of knowledge to be good
I know you're mad, but you can stop it now. We're not getting anything from your argument other than you shitting on SC2.
It ironic that BW is better suited in every single way to being a competitive game apart from the whole flashy graphics thing. Even then with BW's clean, clear and distinctive style, it could be argued that it is a better game for broadcast.
On May 02 2012 23:56 Sum41 wrote: this is a shit, they change broodwar for a inferior game just because of the $$, don't matter what you say, starcraft broodwar is much better. and Sc2 will never be as good as BW, won't last for so long, and as well as BW did
This are good games, not like the boring stuff from Sc2!, watch it and learn what's really awesome. nothing in Sc2 will be compared to the feeling that bring this game, or The Jangbi vs Fantasy finals, Jaedong vs Stork in The OSL Ever Finals, etc.
While i agree with the elitism of BW, it being a harder or more complex game and it being a better candidate for esports, in terms of technology it is simply outdated. Unfortunately the game uses technology that is 15 years old. When technology ages someone else develops a new version to replace it. Again, unfortunately, that is the case here: A large portion of why BW is being made redundant is because the technology is so outdated.
the only thing that the technology has done is give better graphic to Sc2, in all the other aspects BW is superior. and play a game just for the graphics is like watch a porn movie for the argument -_-;
that's why it's reatarded to kill BW, for a dumb game like SC2
Bad comparison. You could compare old graphics with porn, but you would have to compare VHS vs Blueray or something. Also i personally dont agree that BW is the better game. Thats just my opinion though.
On topic. I really hope that the speculations about the old bw players and the sc2 players beeing able to participate in any league comes true. I want to see the best players to compete in all tournaments they chose to do so. I dont want to see a division or something even more stupid. For me its a good sign that all the parties seem to be talking and that Kespa seems to try a global approach with SC2. Now all i need is LAN Blizzard. Your stupid excuses fool noone!
if you think that SC broodwar isn't a better game, then you don't know anything about broodwar. it's much more strategic, it's more complex, requires more skill. i think that you have never played Broodwar, people that hasn't played it, or don't know too much about it, doesn't know how deep the gameplay is.
And SC2 has been made to casual players, you don't need great skill to play it at a decent level, or lot of knowledge to be good
I know you're mad, but you can stop it now. We're not getting anything from your argument other than you shitting on SC2.
What he's saying isn't actually incorrect. As it stands Brood War is a much more strategic game due to a lot of different factors, in particular because of how better your mechanics have to be, but also because it's had more than 10 years to develop.
On May 03 2012 03:11 howLiN wrote: So, when are we gonna get the interviews?
On May 03 2012 02:49 Sum41 wrote:
On May 03 2012 01:45 BlueFlames wrote:
On May 03 2012 00:29 Sum41 wrote:
On May 03 2012 00:08 SC_Ghost wrote:
On May 02 2012 23:56 Sum41 wrote: this is a shit, they change broodwar for a inferior game just because of the $$, don't matter what you say, starcraft broodwar is much better. and Sc2 will never be as good as BW, won't last for so long, and as well as BW did
This are good games, not like the boring stuff from Sc2!, watch it and learn what's really awesome. nothing in Sc2 will be compared to the feeling that bring this game, or The Jangbi vs Fantasy finals, Jaedong vs Stork in The OSL Ever Finals, etc.
While i agree with the elitism of BW, it being a harder or more complex game and it being a better candidate for esports, in terms of technology it is simply outdated. Unfortunately the game uses technology that is 15 years old. When technology ages someone else develops a new version to replace it. Again, unfortunately, that is the case here: A large portion of why BW is being made redundant is because the technology is so outdated.
the only thing that the technology has done is give better graphic to Sc2, in all the other aspects BW is superior. and play a game just for the graphics is like watch a porn movie for the argument -_-;
that's why it's reatarded to kill BW, for a dumb game like SC2
Bad comparison. You could compare old graphics with porn, but you would have to compare VHS vs Blueray or something. Also i personally dont agree that BW is the better game. Thats just my opinion though.
On topic. I really hope that the speculations about the old bw players and the sc2 players beeing able to participate in any league comes true. I want to see the best players to compete in all tournaments they chose to do so. I dont want to see a division or something even more stupid. For me its a good sign that all the parties seem to be talking and that Kespa seems to try a global approach with SC2. Now all i need is LAN Blizzard. Your stupid excuses fool noone!
if you think that SC broodwar isn't a better game, then you don't know anything about broodwar. it's much more strategic, it's more complex, requires more skill. i think that you have never played Broodwar, people that hasn't played it, or don't know too much about it, doesn't know how deep the gameplay is.
And SC2 has been made to casual players, you don't need great skill to play it at a decent level, or lot of knowledge to be good
I know you're mad, but you can stop it now. We're not getting anything from your argument other than you shitting on SC2.
it's not shitting, what i say are just facts
That are not constructive
if the facts are not constructive isn't for my fault, it's the faults of the people that have replace a better game for a thing that looks better, and nothing more. and if the people from sc2 doesn't like the fact that the game which they play is inferior to broodwar isn't my fault too. what i have typed it's just to free the people from the ignorance, they think that sc2 it's better, more strategic or something like that, but it isn't.
On May 03 2012 03:11 howLiN wrote: So, when are we gonna get the interviews?
On May 03 2012 02:49 Sum41 wrote:
On May 03 2012 01:45 BlueFlames wrote:
On May 03 2012 00:29 Sum41 wrote:
On May 03 2012 00:08 SC_Ghost wrote:
On May 02 2012 23:56 Sum41 wrote: this is a shit, they change broodwar for a inferior game just because of the $$, don't matter what you say, starcraft broodwar is much better. and Sc2 will never be as good as BW, won't last for so long, and as well as BW did
This are good games, not like the boring stuff from Sc2!, watch it and learn what's really awesome. nothing in Sc2 will be compared to the feeling that bring this game, or The Jangbi vs Fantasy finals, Jaedong vs Stork in The OSL Ever Finals, etc.
While i agree with the elitism of BW, it being a harder or more complex game and it being a better candidate for esports, in terms of technology it is simply outdated. Unfortunately the game uses technology that is 15 years old. When technology ages someone else develops a new version to replace it. Again, unfortunately, that is the case here: A large portion of why BW is being made redundant is because the technology is so outdated.
the only thing that the technology has done is give better graphic to Sc2, in all the other aspects BW is superior. and play a game just for the graphics is like watch a porn movie for the argument -_-;
that's why it's reatarded to kill BW, for a dumb game like SC2
Bad comparison. You could compare old graphics with porn, but you would have to compare VHS vs Blueray or something. Also i personally dont agree that BW is the better game. Thats just my opinion though.
On topic. I really hope that the speculations about the old bw players and the sc2 players beeing able to participate in any league comes true. I want to see the best players to compete in all tournaments they chose to do so. I dont want to see a division or something even more stupid. For me its a good sign that all the parties seem to be talking and that Kespa seems to try a global approach with SC2. Now all i need is LAN Blizzard. Your stupid excuses fool noone!
if you think that SC broodwar isn't a better game, then you don't know anything about broodwar. it's much more strategic, it's more complex, requires more skill. i think that you have never played Broodwar, people that hasn't played it, or don't know too much about it, doesn't know how deep the gameplay is.
And SC2 has been made to casual players, you don't need great skill to play it at a decent level, or lot of knowledge to be good
I know you're mad, but you can stop it now. We're not getting anything from your argument other than you shitting on SC2.
it's not shitting, what i say are just facts
That are not constructive
if the facts are not constructive isn't for my fault, it's the faults of the people that have replace a better game for a thing that looks better, and nothing more. and if the people from sc2 that doesn't like the fact that the game which they play is inferior to broodwar isn't my fault too. what i have typed it's just to free the people from the ignorance, they think that sc2 it's better, more strategic or something like that, but it isn't.
tbh if you look at it closely, LoL is actually replacing BW, its the game the Koreans want to see played. SC2 is being imposed on them as far as I can see.
Sum41, you are literally just claiming BW is better and shutting down all arguments contrary. Give facts. BW is a harder game but that doesn't make it a better game. Give SC2 time and it will evolve. People seem to forget that BW has been running for over a decade.
Also, in regards to a higher mechanical skillcap: Yeah that's true, but that isn't an issue until SC2 players hit the skillcap reliably. I have yet to see someone play perfectly every time. Micro is still tough even for the best players in the world. Plus, mostly even footing on a mechanical point of view really just leaves the game up to the decision making of the player, which, IMO, is better.
On May 03 2012 03:31 Shrewmy wrote: As it stands Brood War is a much more strategic game due to a lot of different factors, in particular because of how better your mechanics have to be.
i do not understand... i am willing to value BW higher than sc2 in terms of strategic value because of the game design, but not because the game is harder to control (following that logic chess would not be strategy, because mechanics are nonexistant)
On May 03 2012 03:31 Shrewmy wrote: As it stands Brood War is a much more strategic game due to a lot of different factors, in particular because of how better your mechanics have to be.
i do not understand... i am willing to value BW higher than sc2 in terms of strategic value because of the game design, but not because the game is harder to control (following that logic chess would not be strategy, because mechanics are nonexistant)
The mechanical difficulty has allowed the best players to display tactics and strategy that lesser pro-gamers where simply incapable of or unable to prepare for. Additionally it adds to the ability for these mechanically superior players to make comebacks without enormous mistakes from the opponent.
On May 03 2012 03:57 Bareleon wrote: Oh hey guess what I found out about SC2.......it is not BW!!!!!! Is this game called SC2 BW? or BW2? Nope! Different game is different!!! No way!!!!
If you cannot accept it, and the changes it has, then stick to BW, easy as that.
And if people finds it so easy, try to become a pro at it or at least get to Master league in two months if you claim it is sooo easy.
What I learned a while ago: not everyone can accept change or has an easy time adapting to a change.
Of course Star 2 isn't Brood War, its a game that carries the same name, with similar units, that look prettier. Most of us will stick to BW, thanks for that. Master league in two months? We're mostly complete scrubs at BW, at Star2 I ended up getting high plat/diamond when I played like a year ago Of course we can't accept change, BW is, and always will be, what I looked forward too after a long day at school, my dad would always watch with me and we'd play some games together after the matches were done. Brood War is something I've played off and on, but have followed for ages. Brood War isn't just a hobby, nor is it just "another game," It's been the last decade of my life. And I have last thing to say. + Show Spoiler +
Fuck eSports or ESPORT or esport.
There wouldnt' be an "Esports" without Brood War, be thankful. There wouldn't be all of these sponserships or tournaments or what not. Be greatful.
On May 02 2012 23:56 Sum41 wrote: this is a shit, they change broodwar for a inferior game just because of the $$, don't matter what you say, starcraft broodwar is much better. and Sc2 will never be as good as BW, won't last for so long, and as well as BW did
This are good games, not like the boring stuff from Sc2!, watch it and learn what's really awesome. nothing in Sc2 will be compared to the feeling that bring this game, or The Jangbi vs Fantasy finals, Jaedong vs Stork in The OSL Ever Finals, etc.
While i agree with the elitism of BW, it being a harder or more complex game and it being a better candidate for esports, in terms of technology it is simply outdated. Unfortunately the game uses technology that is 15 years old. When technology ages someone else develops a new version to replace it. Again, unfortunately, that is the case here: A large portion of why BW is being made redundant is because the technology is so outdated.
the only thing that the technology has done is give better graphic to Sc2, in all the other aspects BW is superior. and play a game just for the graphics is like watch a porn movie for the argument -_-;
that's why it's reatarded to kill BW, for a dumb game like SC2
Bad comparison. You could compare old graphics with porn, but you would have to compare VHS vs Blueray or something. Also i personally dont agree that BW is the better game. Thats just my opinion though.
On topic. I really hope that the speculations about the old bw players and the sc2 players beeing able to participate in any league comes true. I want to see the best players to compete in all tournaments they chose to do so. I dont want to see a division or something even more stupid. For me its a good sign that all the parties seem to be talking and that Kespa seems to try a global approach with SC2. Now all i need is LAN Blizzard. Your stupid excuses fool noone!
if you think that SC broodwar isn't a better game, then you don't know anything about broodwar. it's much more strategic, it's more complex, requires more skill. i think that you have never played Broodwar, people that hasn't played it, or don't know too much about it, doesn't know how deep the gameplay is.
And SC2 has been made to casual players, you don't need great skill to play it at a decent level, or lot of knowledge to be good
God forbid a game is actually played by people not willing to spend +10 hours a day playing it.
You sound exactly like the people saying vanilla WoW was meant to be hardcore and all that.
On May 03 2012 03:57 Bareleon wrote: Oh hey guess what I found out about SC2.......it is not BW!!!!!! Is this game called SC2 BW? or BW2? Nope! Different game is different!!! No way!!!!
If you cannot accept it, and the changes it has, then stick to BW, easy as that.
And if people finds it so easy, try to become a pro at it or at least get to Master league in two months if you claim it is sooo easy.
What I learned a while ago: not everyone can accept change or has an easy time adapting to a change.
Of course Star 2 isn't Brood War, its a game that carries the same name, with similar units, that look prettier. Most of us will stick to BW, thanks for that. Master league in two months? We're mostly complete scrubs at BW, at Star2 I ended up getting high plat/diamond when I played like a year ago Of course we can't accept change, BW is, and always will be, what I looked forward too after a long day at school, my dad would always watch with me and we'd play some games together after the matches were done. Brood War is something I've played off and on, but have followed for ages. Brood War isn't just a hobby, nor is it just "another game," It's been the last decade of my life. And I have last thing to say. + Show Spoiler +
Fuck eSports or ESPORT or esport.
There wouldnt' be an "Esports" without Brood War, be thankful. There wouldn't be all of these sponserships or tournaments or what not. Be greatful.
Just want to say that A) Plat/Diamond is incredibly scrubby and B) The games aren't similar at all really.
Other than that continue to cry about how esports is an awful thing now that BW isn't a part of it. Sad I know, but doesn't mean you can shit on the rest of esports which certainly isn't limited to nor based on BW.
On May 03 2012 03:57 Bareleon wrote: Oh hey guess what I found out about SC2.......it is not BW!!!!!! Is this game called SC2 BW? or BW2? Nope! Different game is different!!! No way!!!!
If you cannot accept it, and the changes it has, then stick to BW, easy as that.
And if people finds it so easy, try to become a pro at it or at least get to Master league in two months if you claim it is sooo easy.
What I learned a while ago: not everyone can accept change or has an easy time adapting to a change.
Of course Star 2 isn't Brood War, its a game that carries the same name, with similar units, that look prettier. Most of us will stick to BW, thanks for that. Master league in two months? We're mostly complete scrubs at BW, at Star2 I ended up getting high plat/diamond when I played like a year ago Of course we can't accept change, BW is, and always will be, what I looked forward too after a long day at school, my dad would always watch with me and we'd play some games together after the matches were done. Brood War is something I've played off and on, but have followed for ages. Brood War isn't just a hobby, nor is it just "another game," It's been the last decade of my life. And I have last thing to say. + Show Spoiler +
Fuck eSports or ESPORT or esport.
There wouldnt' be an "Esports" without Brood War, be thankful. There wouldn't be all of these sponserships or tournaments or what not. Be greatful.
On May 03 2012 03:57 Bareleon wrote: Oh hey guess what I found out about SC2.......it is not BW!!!!!! Is this game called SC2 BW? or BW2? Nope! Different game is different!!! No way!!!!
If you cannot accept it, and the changes it has, then stick to BW, easy as that.
And if people finds it so easy, try to become a pro at it or at least get to Master league in two months if you claim it is sooo easy.
What I learned a while ago: not everyone can accept change or has an easy time adapting to a change.
Of course Star 2 isn't Brood War, its a game that carries the same name, with similar units, that look prettier. Most of us will stick to BW, thanks for that. Master league in two months? We're mostly complete scrubs at BW, at Star2 I ended up getting high plat/diamond when I played like a year ago Of course we can't accept change, BW is, and always will be, what I looked forward too after a long day at school, my dad would always watch with me and we'd play some games together after the matches were done. Brood War is something I've played off and on, but have followed for ages. Brood War isn't just a hobby, nor is it just "another game," It's been the last decade of my life. And I have last thing to say. + Show Spoiler +
Fuck eSports or ESPORT or esport.
There wouldnt' be an "Esports" without Brood War, be thankful. There wouldn't be all of these sponserships or tournaments or what not. Be greatful.
Quake begs to differ.
Quake, Counter-Strike, Chinese DOTA and (although hostile to the semantic traps that the word esports presents) Fighting games all beg to differ. I love BW but the elitism from said community is disgusting sometimes.
The biggest point that should be made is that BW differs from SC2 in that the games unfold in a different manner.
There are rarely any comebacks in SC2 simply because of the potency of the units and because of the game's design.
I can't see it being too popular amongst Koreans because it is oriented too much around coin-flippy outcomes and battles.
You can get mad all you want, but the fact remains unless SC2 is designed differently, it is NOT going to be as successful as BW is/was in Korea.
I do play both games and the skill difference required to play is tremendous. SC2 is more punishing, with units designed to end games or surprise opponents quickly.
Also on the BW vs SC2 argument, the fact that casters are so important to even the hardcore in the scene's (many members here on TL) enjoyment of the game shows that SC2 really lacks opportunities for players to be the focal point, using their gameplay to market themselves rather than going on podcasts, making stupid references to star wars or being a prodigious twitter user.
sc2 vs bw is not needed but sc2 does deserve its criticisms when compared to bw, sc2 at the moment simply isn't as good as bw, even bw that was 10 years ago. imo because of unit/spell and gameplay design, it just doesn't flow as good as bw. its apparent when watching the games- 1 huge battle vs skirmishes in a large area, game cannot evolve while "deathball" is supported by spells and units composed of countering each other, forcing players to fall back until they have something to deal with what opponent has and its a race for composition. sc2 needs to be criticized and analyzed so it can be better.
i hope hots is a huge improvement but i have little hope from what i've seen so far, i really want sc2 to improve so it can survive another decade after lotv.
On May 03 2012 03:57 Bareleon wrote: Oh hey guess what I found out about SC2.......it is not BW!!!!!! Is this game called SC2 BW? or BW2? Nope! Different game is different!!! No way!!!!
If you cannot accept it, and the changes it has, then stick to BW, easy as that.
And if people finds it so easy, try to become a pro at it or at least get to Master league in two months if you claim it is sooo easy.
What I learned a while ago: not everyone can accept change or has an easy time adapting to a change.
Anyone above D+ can get into masters with a little effort. Fact is, outside of the very top pros the game actually IS quite "easy" compared to BW. This is simply the way Blizzard designed SC2: easy to play, hard to master.
On May 03 2012 03:57 Bareleon wrote: Oh hey guess what I found out about SC2.......it is not BW!!!!!! Is this game called SC2 BW? or BW2? Nope! Different game is different!!! No way!!!!
If you cannot accept it, and the changes it has, then stick to BW, easy as that.
And if people finds it so easy, try to become a pro at it or at least get to Master league in two months if you claim it is sooo easy.
What I learned a while ago: not everyone can accept change or has an easy time adapting to a change.
Of course Star 2 isn't Brood War, its a game that carries the same name, with similar units, that look prettier. Most of us will stick to BW, thanks for that. Master league in two months? We're mostly complete scrubs at BW, at Star2 I ended up getting high plat/diamond when I played like a year ago Of course we can't accept change, BW is, and always will be, what I looked forward too after a long day at school, my dad would always watch with me and we'd play some games together after the matches were done. Brood War is something I've played off and on, but have followed for ages. Brood War isn't just a hobby, nor is it just "another game," It's been the last decade of my life. And I have last thing to say. + Show Spoiler +
Fuck eSports or ESPORT or esport.
There wouldnt' be an "Esports" without Brood War, be thankful. There wouldn't be all of these sponserships or tournaments or what not. Be greatful.
But you said its easy, so push for GM!! Or do you not win enough, but you said the game is easy, hmmm....
Again, SC2 is not SC1, get over it. Play your BW, I will play my SC2. And tons of people stopped playing BW, lol by "most of us" what is that like 15 people, maybe 20?
Did you ever think its a preference of what game everyone likes and wants to play with and stick with? thought so.
I cannot wait till everyone switches to SC2 in the pro scene!!! it will be soooo nice!!!!
On May 02 2012 22:55 GeLaar wrote: I can't believe Blizzard pulled this off. I can't believe the Korean e-sports organisations let themselves get into a situation where Blizzard has them by the balls.
OGN and Kespa are taking some pretty big risks: 1. They might alienate their Korean fans - there is only one game that every Korean grew up knowing, and they're turing their backs on it and saying "Hey, let's have millions of people switch to this other game!". I'm curious to see if this will work, and if it does, how many times it will work (because they will have to do it again for the two "expansions", and for SC3, and so on.)
2. Since SC2 doesn't have LAN, these organisations are now completely at Blizzard's mercy. Blizzard now has the power to pull the plug on Proleague or any other event, without having to go to the Korean courts. With Brood War, the situation was different. After Blizzard backed out of the lawsuit, it was theirs to do whatever they wanted with it. That's a pretty big thing they gave away. I hope for their sake that the relationship doesn't sour, and that Blizzard doesn't decide to change the deal.
Overall, it's clear to me why Kespa and OGN did it. It's right there in the statement: international exposure. They are likely to get it, but the risks they are taking seem immense to me.
It is a huge change, and if handled correctly and professionally it will be a huge step forward. I understand your concerns completely, I can see how if it was to go sour it would destroy an entire industry that's been over 10 years in the making. One thing that's clear for me is that if there are disputes amongst the united organisations it would no doubt be fixed without any underlying injustice. All of these organisations care about esports and, being a business, also care about money and the industry. I'm sure that Blizzard (as well as the other parties involved) won't impose such a dictatorial attitude due to the fact that success for ALL of the organisations means success for each of them, if they hurt their partners then in turn they hurt themselves.
No, blizzard does not care about esport. Otherwise they wouldn't have tried to kill BW so badly. So far they have shown they're too incompetent to fix sc2, so I hope what they did will bite them in the ass. They're becoming the new EA, screw them...
That's an interesting opinion. It has left me wondering, If they didn't care about esports why would they take part in this union? Surely if esports promotes their game, then esports is something worth investing time and resources into since it makes them more money, right? So that means they must care about esports because of their investments.
They are trying to sell a new game. They don't really care about games they aren't making money from any more and aren't really concerned with the overall health and quality of esports, just New Blizzard Products.
having played BW at c level, sc2 is a lot harder (to win). sure, macro is easy, but you need to micro hard and reaction time is more critical since the game is faster. macro skills cannot transfer over back to BW. micro isnt the same because movement is not the same. technical skills are hard to transfer from game to game. so you can be good at one game but suck in the other. play sc2 for a while. ladder is different than it was when it was released. high diamond back then is probably platinum or less... haha. all games have its balance issues, but sc2 is a quality game that is worth the money. just think, sc2 has 10x the amount of attention bw had from around the world. of course there will be more criticism compared to bw. even bw had its criticism, but to a lesser extent because the community was so confined.
besides, the game is always changing and the developers are more than willing to adjust. with the amount of promotion sc2 is getting, everything will be laid out for the developers to see with more competitive play. with 2 expansions left and the game being fully endorsed by bw progamers, it'll only be a matter of time until sc2 becomes a game bw elitists will respect.
On May 03 2012 03:11 howLiN wrote: So, when are we gonna get the interviews?
On May 03 2012 02:49 Sum41 wrote:
On May 03 2012 01:45 BlueFlames wrote:
On May 03 2012 00:29 Sum41 wrote:
On May 03 2012 00:08 SC_Ghost wrote:
On May 02 2012 23:56 Sum41 wrote: this is a shit, they change broodwar for a inferior game just because of the $$, don't matter what you say, starcraft broodwar is much better. and Sc2 will never be as good as BW, won't last for so long, and as well as BW did
This are good games, not like the boring stuff from Sc2!, watch it and learn what's really awesome. nothing in Sc2 will be compared to the feeling that bring this game, or The Jangbi vs Fantasy finals, Jaedong vs Stork in The OSL Ever Finals, etc.
While i agree with the elitism of BW, it being a harder or more complex game and it being a better candidate for esports, in terms of technology it is simply outdated. Unfortunately the game uses technology that is 15 years old. When technology ages someone else develops a new version to replace it. Again, unfortunately, that is the case here: A large portion of why BW is being made redundant is because the technology is so outdated.
the only thing that the technology has done is give better graphic to Sc2, in all the other aspects BW is superior. and play a game just for the graphics is like watch a porn movie for the argument -_-;
that's why it's reatarded to kill BW, for a dumb game like SC2
Bad comparison. You could compare old graphics with porn, but you would have to compare VHS vs Blueray or something. Also i personally dont agree that BW is the better game. Thats just my opinion though.
On topic. I really hope that the speculations about the old bw players and the sc2 players beeing able to participate in any league comes true. I want to see the best players to compete in all tournaments they chose to do so. I dont want to see a division or something even more stupid. For me its a good sign that all the parties seem to be talking and that Kespa seems to try a global approach with SC2. Now all i need is LAN Blizzard. Your stupid excuses fool noone!
if you think that SC broodwar isn't a better game, then you don't know anything about broodwar. it's much more strategic, it's more complex, requires more skill. i think that you have never played Broodwar, people that hasn't played it, or don't know too much about it, doesn't know how deep the gameplay is.
And SC2 has been made to casual players, you don't need great skill to play it at a decent level, or lot of knowledge to be good
I know you're mad, but you can stop it now. We're not getting anything from your argument other than you shitting on SC2.
it's not shitting, what i say are just facts
'
No. You are shitting. "SC2 is dumb" is not a fact. Please smarten up before you troll this thread up.
YOU GUYS KEEP FIGHTING ABOUT WICH GAME IS BETTER AND MORE SKILLBASED. BW fans, think about this, SC2 is game based on sc1, it is not the sam game, but they have similar concept and they both needs skill, even if you say BW needs more skill. While you keep fighting one of the most noskill bases multiplayergame, LOL (God how i hate that game), is becominge bigger than BW and sc2 together. PLease stop fighting. BW fans please support SC2 as an esport, BW is behind, you had you 13 years of glory, sry but it needs to finish. We Starcraft fans need to stick together and spread the joyful news about Starcrat and make it again biggest esport name outthere.
They are trying to sell a new game. They don't really care about games they aren't making money from any more and aren't really concerned with the overall health and quality of esports, just New Blizzard Products.
"They are trying to sell a new game"......as opposed to not trying to sell their product? "They don't really care about games they aren't making money from any more".....because they haven't patched any of their games....o wait. "and aren't really concerned with the overall health and quality of esports"......because they aren't trying to work to an agreement with ogn/kespa/gom?
On May 03 2012 05:04 TotoroHren wrote: YOU GUYS KEEP FIGHTING ABOUT WICH GAME IS BETTER AND MORE SKILLBASED. BW fans, think about this, SC2 is game based on sc1, it is not the sam game, but they have similar concept and they both needs skill, even if you say BW needs more skill. While you keep fighting one of the most noskill bases multiplayergame, LOL (God how i hate that game), is becominge bigger than BW and sc2 together. PLease stop fighting. BW fans please support SC2 as an esport, BW is behind, you had you 13 years of glory, sry but it needs to finish. We Starcraft fans need to stick together and spread the joyful news about Starcrat and make it again biggest esport name outthere.
THIS IS STARCRAFT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You support the games you enjoy to play/watch. Would you support LoL if Wii Sports would be the new hot thing, just "for the good of esports"?
On May 02 2012 22:55 GeLaar wrote: I can't believe Blizzard pulled this off. I can't believe the Korean e-sports organisations let themselves get into a situation where Blizzard has them by the balls.
OGN and Kespa are taking some pretty big risks: 1. They might alienate their Korean fans - there is only one game that every Korean grew up knowing, and they're turing their backs on it and saying "Hey, let's have millions of people switch to this other game!". I'm curious to see if this will work, and if it does, how many times it will work (because they will have to do it again for the two "expansions", and for SC3, and so on.)
2. Since SC2 doesn't have LAN, these organisations are now completely at Blizzard's mercy. Blizzard now has the power to pull the plug on Proleague or any other event, without having to go to the Korean courts. With Brood War, the situation was different. After Blizzard backed out of the lawsuit, it was theirs to do whatever they wanted with it. That's a pretty big thing they gave away. I hope for their sake that the relationship doesn't sour, and that Blizzard doesn't decide to change the deal.
Overall, it's clear to me why Kespa and OGN did it. It's right there in the statement: international exposure. They are likely to get it, but the risks they are taking seem immense to me.
It is a huge change, and if handled correctly and professionally it will be a huge step forward. I understand your concerns completely, I can see how if it was to go sour it would destroy an entire industry that's been over 10 years in the making. One thing that's clear for me is that if there are disputes amongst the united organisations it would no doubt be fixed without any underlying injustice. All of these organisations care about esports and, being a business, also care about money and the industry. I'm sure that Blizzard (as well as the other parties involved) won't impose such a dictatorial attitude due to the fact that success for ALL of the organisations means success for each of them, if they hurt their partners then in turn they hurt themselves.
No, blizzard does not care about esport. Otherwise they wouldn't have tried to kill BW so badly. So far they have shown they're too incompetent to fix sc2, so I hope what they did will bite them in the ass. They're becoming the new EA, screw them...
That's an interesting opinion. It has left me wondering, If they didn't care about esports why would they take part in this union? Surely if esports promotes their game, then esports is something worth investing time and resources into since it makes them more money, right? So that means they must care about esports because of their investments.
They are trying to sell a new game. They don't really care about games they aren't making money from any more and aren't really concerned with the overall health and quality of esports, just New Blizzard Products.
Blizzard realize that they failed miserable in the Korean launch of Starcraft II (along with squandering links to the most incredible esports scene ever) and are looking at LoL making WoW type cash. They want a piece of the Korean pie and this is how they are doing it, putting SC2 on the front and center of the biggest gaming broadcaster in SK, mainly via legal muscle rather than any concern about ESPORTS/.
On May 03 2012 05:04 TotoroHren wrote: YOU GUYS KEEP FIGHTING ABOUT WICH GAME IS BETTER AND MORE SKILLBASED. BW fans, think about this, SC2 is game based on sc1, it is not the sam game, but they have similar concept and they both needs skill, even if you say BW needs more skill. While you keep fighting one of the most noskill bases multiplayergame, LOL (God how i hate that game), is becominge bigger than BW and sc2 together. PLease stop fighting. BW fans please support SC2 as an esport, BW is behind, you had you 13 years of glory, sry but it needs to finish. We Starcraft fans need to stick together and spread the joyful news about Starcrat and make it again biggest esport name outthere.
THIS IS STARCRAFT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You support the games you enjoy to play/watch. Would you support LoL if Wii Sports would be the new hot thing, just "for the good of esports"?
As an SC2 fan who watched SC1 as well, I can completely understand why BW fans do not want to support or watch SC2. The games, with some small exceptions are vastly different.
This is no surprise from Blizzard. But the korean officials agreeing to this unanimously...ugh kill me. The only hope now is the players and the fans rally and get some sort of petition going to at least keep BW separated from SC2. Also, an online petition should be created on the BW forum so foreigners can contribute.
I don't even care about my entertaintment. I feel so sorry for the players, they don't deserve this bullshit. Why don't Blizzard and the korean officials just barge into their practice houses and take a humongous liquid shit on the players' faces? It would be less disrespectful than this garbage.
On May 03 2012 05:04 TotoroHren wrote: YOU GUYS KEEP FIGHTING ABOUT WICH GAME IS BETTER AND MORE SKILLBASED. BW fans, think about this, SC2 is game based on sc1, it is not the sam game, but they have similar concept and they both needs skill, even if you say BW needs more skill. While you keep fighting one of the most noskill bases multiplayergame, LOL (God how i hate that game), is becominge bigger than BW and sc2 together. PLease stop fighting. BW fans please support SC2 as an esport, BW is behind, you had you 13 years of glory, sry but it needs to finish. We Starcraft fans need to stick together and spread the joyful news about Starcrat and make it again biggest esport name outthere.
THIS IS STARCRAFT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's only called StarCraft, STX coach put it best. To many of us SC2 is not different from LoL. At this point I don't expect blizzard to fix the game. They're like the Polish government, they only talk and don't do anything of substance.
On May 02 2012 22:55 GeLaar wrote: I can't believe Blizzard pulled this off. I can't believe the Korean e-sports organisations let themselves get into a situation where Blizzard has them by the balls.
OGN and Kespa are taking some pretty big risks: 1. They might alienate their Korean fans - there is only one game that every Korean grew up knowing, and they're turing their backs on it and saying "Hey, let's have millions of people switch to this other game!". I'm curious to see if this will work, and if it does, how many times it will work (because they will have to do it again for the two "expansions", and for SC3, and so on.)
2. Since SC2 doesn't have LAN, these organisations are now completely at Blizzard's mercy. Blizzard now has the power to pull the plug on Proleague or any other event, without having to go to the Korean courts. With Brood War, the situation was different. After Blizzard backed out of the lawsuit, it was theirs to do whatever they wanted with it. That's a pretty big thing they gave away. I hope for their sake that the relationship doesn't sour, and that Blizzard doesn't decide to change the deal.
Overall, it's clear to me why Kespa and OGN did it. It's right there in the statement: international exposure. They are likely to get it, but the risks they are taking seem immense to me.
It is a huge change, and if handled correctly and professionally it will be a huge step forward. I understand your concerns completely, I can see how if it was to go sour it would destroy an entire industry that's been over 10 years in the making. One thing that's clear for me is that if there are disputes amongst the united organisations it would no doubt be fixed without any underlying injustice. All of these organisations care about esports and, being a business, also care about money and the industry. I'm sure that Blizzard (as well as the other parties involved) won't impose such a dictatorial attitude due to the fact that success for ALL of the organisations means success for each of them, if they hurt their partners then in turn they hurt themselves.
No, blizzard does not care about esport. Otherwise they wouldn't have tried to kill BW so badly. So far they have shown they're too incompetent to fix sc2, so I hope what they did will bite them in the ass. They're becoming the new EA, screw them...
That's an interesting opinion. It has left me wondering, If they didn't care about esports why would they take part in this union? Surely if esports promotes their game, then esports is something worth investing time and resources into since it makes them more money, right? So that means they must care about esports because of their investments.
They are trying to sell a new game. They don't really care about games they aren't making money from any more and aren't really concerned with the overall health and quality of esports, just New Blizzard Products.
Blizzard realize that they failed miserable in the Korean launch of Starcraft II (along with squandering links to the most incredible esports scene ever) and are looking at LoL making WoW type cash. They want a piece of the Korean pie and this is how they are doing it, putting SC2 on the front and center of the biggest gaming broadcaster in SK, mainly via legal muscle rather than any concern about ESPORTS/.
On May 02 2012 22:55 GeLaar wrote: I can't believe Blizzard pulled this off. I can't believe the Korean e-sports organisations let themselves get into a situation where Blizzard has them by the balls.
OGN and Kespa are taking some pretty big risks: 1. They might alienate their Korean fans - there is only one game that every Korean grew up knowing, and they're turing their backs on it and saying "Hey, let's have millions of people switch to this other game!". I'm curious to see if this will work, and if it does, how many times it will work (because they will have to do it again for the two "expansions", and for SC3, and so on.)
2. Since SC2 doesn't have LAN, these organisations are now completely at Blizzard's mercy. Blizzard now has the power to pull the plug on Proleague or any other event, without having to go to the Korean courts. With Brood War, the situation was different. After Blizzard backed out of the lawsuit, it was theirs to do whatever they wanted with it. That's a pretty big thing they gave away. I hope for their sake that the relationship doesn't sour, and that Blizzard doesn't decide to change the deal.
Overall, it's clear to me why Kespa and OGN did it. It's right there in the statement: international exposure. They are likely to get it, but the risks they are taking seem immense to me.
It is a huge change, and if handled correctly and professionally it will be a huge step forward. I understand your concerns completely, I can see how if it was to go sour it would destroy an entire industry that's been over 10 years in the making. One thing that's clear for me is that if there are disputes amongst the united organisations it would no doubt be fixed without any underlying injustice. All of these organisations care about esports and, being a business, also care about money and the industry. I'm sure that Blizzard (as well as the other parties involved) won't impose such a dictatorial attitude due to the fact that success for ALL of the organisations means success for each of them, if they hurt their partners then in turn they hurt themselves.
No, blizzard does not care about esport. Otherwise they wouldn't have tried to kill BW so badly. So far they have shown they're too incompetent to fix sc2, so I hope what they did will bite them in the ass. They're becoming the new EA, screw them...
That's an interesting opinion. It has left me wondering, If they didn't care about esports why would they take part in this union? Surely if esports promotes their game, then esports is something worth investing time and resources into since it makes them more money, right? So that means they must care about esports because of their investments.
They are trying to sell a new game. They don't really care about games they aren't making money from any more and aren't really concerned with the overall health and quality of esports, just New Blizzard Products.
Blizzard realize that they failed miserable in the Korean launch of Starcraft II (along with squandering links to the most incredible esports scene ever) and are looking at LoL making WoW type cash. They want a piece of the Korean pie and this is how they are doing it, putting SC2 on the front and center of the biggest gaming broadcaster in SK, mainly via legal muscle rather than any concern about ESPORTS/.
Can we start some kind of online petition??
Online petitions involving the least important, least numerous component of the BW community, sounds like a fantastic idea! No this isn't going to be changed by anything, my BW heart is cold and dead since Kpop killed MBC. Blizzard can do what they like with SC2, I am beginning to get to the point where I truly think its going to be a dead game in a years time.
On May 03 2012 05:18 blahblahblahwhatever wrote: This is no surprise from Blizzard. But the korean officials agreeing to this unanimously...ugh kill me. The only hope now is the players and the fans rally and get some sort of petition going to at least keep BW separated from SC2. Also, an online petition should be created on the BW forum so foreigners can contribute.
I don't even care about my entertaintment. I feel so sorry for the players, they don't deserve this bullshit. Why don't Blizzard and the korean officials just barge into their practice houses and take a humongous liquid shit on the players' faces? It would be less disrespectful than this garbage.
I know your feeling man, I hope pros are willing to switch over to hots when it comes out.
Especially when hots comes out, expect BW to be dead in one to two years.
On May 02 2012 22:55 GeLaar wrote: I can't believe Blizzard pulled this off. I can't believe the Korean e-sports organisations let themselves get into a situation where Blizzard has them by the balls.
OGN and Kespa are taking some pretty big risks: 1. They might alienate their Korean fans - there is only one game that every Korean grew up knowing, and they're turing their backs on it and saying "Hey, let's have millions of people switch to this other game!". I'm curious to see if this will work, and if it does, how many times it will work (because they will have to do it again for the two "expansions", and for SC3, and so on.)
2. Since SC2 doesn't have LAN, these organisations are now completely at Blizzard's mercy. Blizzard now has the power to pull the plug on Proleague or any other event, without having to go to the Korean courts. With Brood War, the situation was different. After Blizzard backed out of the lawsuit, it was theirs to do whatever they wanted with it. That's a pretty big thing they gave away. I hope for their sake that the relationship doesn't sour, and that Blizzard doesn't decide to change the deal.
Overall, it's clear to me why Kespa and OGN did it. It's right there in the statement: international exposure. They are likely to get it, but the risks they are taking seem immense to me.
It is a huge change, and if handled correctly and professionally it will be a huge step forward. I understand your concerns completely, I can see how if it was to go sour it would destroy an entire industry that's been over 10 years in the making. One thing that's clear for me is that if there are disputes amongst the united organisations it would no doubt be fixed without any underlying injustice. All of these organisations care about esports and, being a business, also care about money and the industry. I'm sure that Blizzard (as well as the other parties involved) won't impose such a dictatorial attitude due to the fact that success for ALL of the organisations means success for each of them, if they hurt their partners then in turn they hurt themselves.
No, blizzard does not care about esport. Otherwise they wouldn't have tried to kill BW so badly. So far they have shown they're too incompetent to fix sc2, so I hope what they did will bite them in the ass. They're becoming the new EA, screw them...
That's an interesting opinion. It has left me wondering, If they didn't care about esports why would they take part in this union? Surely if esports promotes their game, then esports is something worth investing time and resources into since it makes them more money, right? So that means they must care about esports because of their investments.
They are trying to sell a new game. They don't really care about games they aren't making money from any more and aren't really concerned with the overall health and quality of esports, just New Blizzard Products.
Blizzard realize that they failed miserable in the Korean launch of Starcraft II (along with squandering links to the most incredible esports scene ever) and are looking at LoL making WoW type cash. They want a piece of the Korean pie and this is how they are doing it, putting SC2 on the front and center of the biggest gaming broadcaster in SK, mainly via legal muscle rather than any concern about ESPORTS/.
Can we start some kind of online petition??
Online petitions involving the least important, least numerous component of the BW community, sounds like a fantastic idea! No this isn't going to be changed by anything, my BW heart is cold and dead since Kpop killed MBC. Blizzard can do what they like with SC2, I am beginning to get to the point where I truly think its going to be a dead game in a years time.
Like BW? Trust me, sc2 will last generations longer than BW.
On May 02 2012 22:55 GeLaar wrote: I can't believe Blizzard pulled this off. I can't believe the Korean e-sports organisations let themselves get into a situation where Blizzard has them by the balls.
OGN and Kespa are taking some pretty big risks: 1. They might alienate their Korean fans - there is only one game that every Korean grew up knowing, and they're turing their backs on it and saying "Hey, let's have millions of people switch to this other game!". I'm curious to see if this will work, and if it does, how many times it will work (because they will have to do it again for the two "expansions", and for SC3, and so on.)
2. Since SC2 doesn't have LAN, these organisations are now completely at Blizzard's mercy. Blizzard now has the power to pull the plug on Proleague or any other event, without having to go to the Korean courts. With Brood War, the situation was different. After Blizzard backed out of the lawsuit, it was theirs to do whatever they wanted with it. That's a pretty big thing they gave away. I hope for their sake that the relationship doesn't sour, and that Blizzard doesn't decide to change the deal.
Overall, it's clear to me why Kespa and OGN did it. It's right there in the statement: international exposure. They are likely to get it, but the risks they are taking seem immense to me.
It is a huge change, and if handled correctly and professionally it will be a huge step forward. I understand your concerns completely, I can see how if it was to go sour it would destroy an entire industry that's been over 10 years in the making. One thing that's clear for me is that if there are disputes amongst the united organisations it would no doubt be fixed without any underlying injustice. All of these organisations care about esports and, being a business, also care about money and the industry. I'm sure that Blizzard (as well as the other parties involved) won't impose such a dictatorial attitude due to the fact that success for ALL of the organisations means success for each of them, if they hurt their partners then in turn they hurt themselves.
No, blizzard does not care about esport. Otherwise they wouldn't have tried to kill BW so badly. So far they have shown they're too incompetent to fix sc2, so I hope what they did will bite them in the ass. They're becoming the new EA, screw them...
That's an interesting opinion. It has left me wondering, If they didn't care about esports why would they take part in this union? Surely if esports promotes their game, then esports is something worth investing time and resources into since it makes them more money, right? So that means they must care about esports because of their investments.
They are trying to sell a new game. They don't really care about games they aren't making money from any more and aren't really concerned with the overall health and quality of esports, just New Blizzard Products.
Blizzard realize that they failed miserable in the Korean launch of Starcraft II (along with squandering links to the most incredible esports scene ever) and are looking at LoL making WoW type cash. They want a piece of the Korean pie and this is how they are doing it, putting SC2 on the front and center of the biggest gaming broadcaster in SK, mainly via legal muscle rather than any concern about ESPORTS/.
Can we start some kind of online petition??
Online petitions involving the least important, least numerous component of the BW community, sounds like a fantastic idea! No this isn't going to be changed by anything, my BW heart is cold and dead since Kpop killed MBC. Blizzard can do what they like with SC2, I am beginning to get to the point where I truly think its going to be a dead game in a years time.
Like BW? Trust me, sc2 will last generations longer than BW.
You'll need to be here for longer than 5 minutes for me to trust your opinion
If SC2 is even remembered, much less played competitively, in 10 years consider yourself fortunate. Maybe SC3 will be released by then and you can hear the same cries from 12-year-old gamers who have never been a part of e-sports, never played an RTS come and shit on your game, calling it old, outdated, ugly and everything the SC2 community brandishes BW to be.
On May 02 2012 10:00 Isengrim wrote: The future of SC2 could very well be determined in the next few hours.
really? I'm pretty sure the professional scene has grown just fine without SC2 recognized as an official game...I could care less what they decide...and GOMTV has done just fine as well... honestly it sounds like things are becoming more global and open and Kespa has lost a lot of power...
On May 03 2012 05:18 blahblahblahwhatever wrote: This is no surprise from Blizzard. But the korean officials agreeing to this unanimously...ugh kill me. The only hope now is the players and the fans rally and get some sort of petition going to at least keep BW separated from SC2. Also, an online petition should be created on the BW forum so foreigners can contribute.
I don't even care about my entertaintment. I feel so sorry for the players, they don't deserve this bullshit. Why don't Blizzard and the korean officials just barge into their practice houses and take a humongous liquid shit on the players' faces? It would be less disrespectful than this garbage.
On May 02 2012 22:55 GeLaar wrote: I can't believe Blizzard pulled this off. I can't believe the Korean e-sports organisations let themselves get into a situation where Blizzard has them by the balls.
OGN and Kespa are taking some pretty big risks: 1. They might alienate their Korean fans - there is only one game that every Korean grew up knowing, and they're turing their backs on it and saying "Hey, let's have millions of people switch to this other game!". I'm curious to see if this will work, and if it does, how many times it will work (because they will have to do it again for the two "expansions", and for SC3, and so on.)
2. Since SC2 doesn't have LAN, these organisations are now completely at Blizzard's mercy. Blizzard now has the power to pull the plug on Proleague or any other event, without having to go to the Korean courts. With Brood War, the situation was different. After Blizzard backed out of the lawsuit, it was theirs to do whatever they wanted with it. That's a pretty big thing they gave away. I hope for their sake that the relationship doesn't sour, and that Blizzard doesn't decide to change the deal.
Overall, it's clear to me why Kespa and OGN did it. It's right there in the statement: international exposure. They are likely to get it, but the risks they are taking seem immense to me.
It is a huge change, and if handled correctly and professionally it will be a huge step forward. I understand your concerns completely, I can see how if it was to go sour it would destroy an entire industry that's been over 10 years in the making. One thing that's clear for me is that if there are disputes amongst the united organisations it would no doubt be fixed without any underlying injustice. All of these organisations care about esports and, being a business, also care about money and the industry. I'm sure that Blizzard (as well as the other parties involved) won't impose such a dictatorial attitude due to the fact that success for ALL of the organisations means success for each of them, if they hurt their partners then in turn they hurt themselves.
No, blizzard does not care about esport. Otherwise they wouldn't have tried to kill BW so badly. So far they have shown they're too incompetent to fix sc2, so I hope what they did will bite them in the ass. They're becoming the new EA, screw them...
That's an interesting opinion. It has left me wondering, If they didn't care about esports why would they take part in this union? Surely if esports promotes their game, then esports is something worth investing time and resources into since it makes them more money, right? So that means they must care about esports because of their investments.
They are trying to sell a new game. They don't really care about games they aren't making money from any more and aren't really concerned with the overall health and quality of esports, just New Blizzard Products.
Blizzard realize that they failed miserable in the Korean launch of Starcraft II (along with squandering links to the most incredible esports scene ever) and are looking at LoL making WoW type cash. They want a piece of the Korean pie and this is how they are doing it, putting SC2 on the front and center of the biggest gaming broadcaster in SK, mainly via legal muscle rather than any concern about ESPORTS/.
Can we start some kind of online petition??
Online petitions involving the least important, least numerous component of the BW community, sounds like a fantastic idea! No this isn't going to be changed by anything, my BW heart is cold and dead since Kpop killed MBC. Blizzard can do what they like with SC2, I am beginning to get to the point where I truly think its going to be a dead game in a years time.
Like BW? Trust me, sc2 will last generations longer than BW.
Not a chance. SC2 will last only as long as it meets the revenue expectations of some suits at Activision/Blizzard. Once SC2 no longer meets these expectations and Blizzard releases the next RTs the want to market, they can force moving to the new game by shitting down SC2.
It's a kill switch, and it's the worst possible thing to happen to eSports as a competition.
BW lasted this long based on its merit as a competitive game precisely because it didn't have a kill switch. This was the beauty of the KeSPA model, compared to the Blizzard model, which creates a conflict between maximizing revenue and choosing the better game for competition.
On May 02 2012 22:55 GeLaar wrote: I can't believe Blizzard pulled this off. I can't believe the Korean e-sports organisations let themselves get into a situation where Blizzard has them by the balls.
OGN and Kespa are taking some pretty big risks: 1. They might alienate their Korean fans - there is only one game that every Korean grew up knowing, and they're turing their backs on it and saying "Hey, let's have millions of people switch to this other game!". I'm curious to see if this will work, and if it does, how many times it will work (because they will have to do it again for the two "expansions", and for SC3, and so on.)
2. Since SC2 doesn't have LAN, these organisations are now completely at Blizzard's mercy. Blizzard now has the power to pull the plug on Proleague or any other event, without having to go to the Korean courts. With Brood War, the situation was different. After Blizzard backed out of the lawsuit, it was theirs to do whatever they wanted with it. That's a pretty big thing they gave away. I hope for their sake that the relationship doesn't sour, and that Blizzard doesn't decide to change the deal.
Overall, it's clear to me why Kespa and OGN did it. It's right there in the statement: international exposure. They are likely to get it, but the risks they are taking seem immense to me.
It is a huge change, and if handled correctly and professionally it will be a huge step forward. I understand your concerns completely, I can see how if it was to go sour it would destroy an entire industry that's been over 10 years in the making. One thing that's clear for me is that if there are disputes amongst the united organisations it would no doubt be fixed without any underlying injustice. All of these organisations care about esports and, being a business, also care about money and the industry. I'm sure that Blizzard (as well as the other parties involved) won't impose such a dictatorial attitude due to the fact that success for ALL of the organisations means success for each of them, if they hurt their partners then in turn they hurt themselves.
No, blizzard does not care about esport. Otherwise they wouldn't have tried to kill BW so badly. So far they have shown they're too incompetent to fix sc2, so I hope what they did will bite them in the ass. They're becoming the new EA, screw them...
That's an interesting opinion. It has left me wondering, If they didn't care about esports why would they take part in this union? Surely if esports promotes their game, then esports is something worth investing time and resources into since it makes them more money, right? So that means they must care about esports because of their investments.
They are trying to sell a new game. They don't really care about games they aren't making money from any more and aren't really concerned with the overall health and quality of esports, just New Blizzard Products.
Blizzard realize that they failed miserable in the Korean launch of Starcraft II (along with squandering links to the most incredible esports scene ever) and are looking at LoL making WoW type cash. They want a piece of the Korean pie and this is how they are doing it, putting SC2 on the front and center of the biggest gaming broadcaster in SK, mainly via legal muscle rather than any concern about ESPORTS/.
Can we start some kind of online petition??
Online petitions involving the least important, least numerous component of the BW community, sounds like a fantastic idea! No this isn't going to be changed by anything, my BW heart is cold and dead since Kpop killed MBC. Blizzard can do what they like with SC2, I am beginning to get to the point where I truly think its going to be a dead game in a years time.
Like BW? Trust me, sc2 will last generations longer than BW.
Ok so we have SC2 pretty much dead on arrival in Korea, the scene there has easily the most talented, hard-working players, putting in hours to become the best but an extremely low amount of Korean fans cheering them on. It doesn't get played in PC Bangs, due to ridiculous Bnet account requirements, plus you can play LoL with your friends with ALL THE HERO'S UNLOCKED!. So the main place where Korean gamers congregate and discuss games has little to no SC2 in it. GOM heavily relys on subs from the foreign community to keep going, with pathetic studio attendances and their incredible production skills making up for small audiences at finals. Korean teams have all been living on the edge, with some teams like Zenex needing their players to pay to stay in team-house rather than the other way around. IM and FXO are the only teams with stable sponsors.
In the foreigner scene we have a growing movement of apathy towards the trend of Korean domination in tournaments. GOM has the Code S seed to get foreigner subs for GSL more than anything. Foreigner teams care more about being players having a following and being active on social media, which is fair enough seeing as they have a business to run which is more like a charity. Foreigner fans argue more about casters than the actual game. LoL is getting huge in the West as well, pulling gigantic numbers. The game itself has some serious design issues, both in gameplay and UI. Without radical intervention by Blizzard I don't see it being around for very long.
Sigh, so many ass-holes on TeamLiquid, community has really gone to shit.
Anyway, I never played Broodwar and never really watched it either. But I check out the LR threads sometimes and read your comments. Brood war players are so passionate and loving about their game. I've seen it make people's day and break people's heart. This is all shitty news for them. Broodwar fans, I salute you, but don't leave. Give SC2 a chance, see if KESPA having a go at SC2 it can win your hearts over. Then you may see your favourite players play for many years to come.
mmm Why you pleople think about LoL as the sucessor of BW, its complete different, its not even an RTS, because has a lot of fans? Why couldn't be two differents sports like soccer and basketball?, totally differents with different audencies. I really don't see any other RTS be able to fullfill the RTS hole of BW, Now it need to be SC2. I really love BW, I also believe that BW is more entertaining than SC2 because I feel is so easy to die to random stuff and that still exists holes in the builds and things to be explored so u cannot see every game decided by battles for the 5 o 6 exp and just aiming for death ball. I believe that the problem with SC2 is that you could have all your units in 1 hotkey. So deadballs became possible.
The thing is is a good sucessor, who knows, nobody likes the princes if we have a good king, nobody want the king to die, but that just nature, lets hope that in sometime with some work that prince become a good king.
You could think about another RTS that can right now become the sucessor of BW? (Yes it need a successor because they has been poisoned, could you find the cure? not? well find the sucessor then )
On May 03 2012 06:04 Bareleon wrote: Lol this turned into BW vs. SC2.
But no worries my SC2 brethren, we shall prevail!! The better game. SC2 shall win!!!
In what regard? Graphics? Maybe you should consider playing Crysis since gameplay doesn't seem to be your kind of thing.
I actually prefer game play over graphics, unlike you it seems.
And most games to me are boring. Its not very often I find a game that I enjoy.
you called sc2 the better game...i can't help but think majority of those who played both games for long time will say bw is better in terms of game play regarding units and spells and their relation to each other. i'm glad you enjoy sc2 though, many bw people do also.
On one hand, a game we've loved since 1998 is finally coming to an end competitively, the game that started it all. On the other hand all the great players are likely transitioning over to SC2 so we can still see them play in a similar game. Also with the improvements in the UI, older progamers still have a shot at being just as competitive as younger players. There could be a point in the future where we have Boxer, Nada, JulyZerg, Bisu, Flash, and Jaedong competing at the same time in the same tournament. To me that would be awesome, even though a player like Flash is almost untouchable in BW, matches could be much closer in SC2 since the mechanical ceiling is much lower. Though it may sound like a con, I think a more accessible game is great for expanding the audience.
I'm looking forward to the future of SC2, and hope the new SC2 leagues are a success.
On May 03 2012 06:04 Bareleon wrote: Lol this turned into BW vs. SC2.
But no worries my SC2 brethren, we shall prevail!! The better game. SC2 shall win!!!
In what regard? Graphics? Maybe you should consider playing Crysis since gameplay doesn't seem to be your kind of thing.
I actually prefer game play over graphics, unlike you it seems.
And most games to me are boring. Its not very often I find a game that I enjoy.
you called sc2 the better game...i can't help but think majority of those who played both games for long time will say bw is better in terms of game play regarding units and spells and their relation to each other. i'm glad you enjoy sc2 though, many bw people do also.
I think the current SC2 gameplay makes it clear, because every single match up is deathball vs deathball.
sadly people now is more drived by flashy graphics than gameplay. I don't think this thinking would make a game last 10 years though.
Some of the users complaining about BW being the better game and what not need to go back and watch some of the old StarLeague games (like before they got the red, white, and black colors being official for the OSL) and learn the history behind Brood War's games. BW used to be full of gimmicky, shaky, and downright awful strategy compared to what it is today. That is the stage that StarCraft 2 feels like it is at right now. Overtime strategies will mature into something that does resemble the complexity of Brood War's strategies do. It's somewhat irritating to see users taking the action from players like Bisu, Flash, Jaedong, JangBi and what not for granted when old school players like BoxeR, Garmitio, ChRh, and H.O.T-Forever laid out the foundations for the star players today (and their skill levels back then were not even remotely close to what it is today with extremely few being exceptions).
Hot Bid will be on tonight to reveal some exclusive news on TSL4, and TeamLiquid EIC Waxangel and Torch of OGN, former GOM will be on to talk about the new deal between Kespa/OGN/Blizzard. Plus Naniwa losing to MVP, HotS at MLG Anaheim and more! Waxangel will also be on tonight live from Korea! Goes live in 20 minutes on http://www.Twitch.tv/OneMoreGameTV
On May 03 2012 03:57 Bareleon wrote: Oh hey guess what I found out about SC2.......it is not BW!!!!!! Is this game called SC2 BW? or BW2? Nope! Different game is different!!! No way!!!!
If you cannot accept it, and the changes it has, then stick to BW, easy as that.
And if people finds it so easy, try to become a pro at it or at least get to Master league in two months if you claim it is sooo easy.
What I learned a while ago: not everyone can accept change or has an easy time adapting to a change.
Of course Star 2 isn't Brood War, its a game that carries the same name, with similar units, that look prettier. Most of us will stick to BW, thanks for that. Master league in two months? We're mostly complete scrubs at BW, at Star2 I ended up getting high plat/diamond when I played like a year ago Of course we can't accept change, BW is, and always will be, what I looked forward too after a long day at school, my dad would always watch with me and we'd play some games together after the matches were done. Brood War is something I've played off and on, but have followed for ages. Brood War isn't just a hobby, nor is it just "another game," It's been the last decade of my life. And I have last thing to say. + Show Spoiler +
Fuck eSports or ESPORT or esport.
There wouldnt' be an "Esports" without Brood War, be thankful. There wouldn't be all of these sponserships or tournaments or what not. Be greatful.
Just want to say that A) Plat/Diamond is incredibly scrubby and B) The games aren't similar at all really.
Other than that continue to cry about how esports is an awful thing now that BW isn't a part of it. Sad I know, but doesn't mean you can shit on the rest of esports which certainly isn't limited to nor based on BW.
Esports means nothing to me. Plat/Diamond is seriously scrubby, coming from someone that was Keyboard/CPU rank in Iccup. The games are similar in name, basic lay out. Ofcourse that doesn't mean that they are, like say the carbon copying the Call of Duty franchise has become. But they are similar enough.
On May 03 2012 03:57 Bareleon wrote: Oh hey guess what I found out about SC2.......it is not BW!!!!!! Is this game called SC2 BW? or BW2? Nope! Different game is different!!! No way!!!!
If you cannot accept it, and the changes it has, then stick to BW, easy as that.
And if people finds it so easy, try to become a pro at it or at least get to Master league in two months if you claim it is sooo easy.
What I learned a while ago: not everyone can accept change or has an easy time adapting to a change.
Of course Star 2 isn't Brood War, its a game that carries the same name, with similar units, that look prettier. Most of us will stick to BW, thanks for that. Master league in two months? We're mostly complete scrubs at BW, at Star2 I ended up getting high plat/diamond when I played like a year ago Of course we can't accept change, BW is, and always will be, what I looked forward too after a long day at school, my dad would always watch with me and we'd play some games together after the matches were done. Brood War is something I've played off and on, but have followed for ages. Brood War isn't just a hobby, nor is it just "another game," It's been the last decade of my life. And I have last thing to say. + Show Spoiler +
Fuck eSports or ESPORT or esport.
There wouldnt' be an "Esports" without Brood War, be thankful. There wouldn't be all of these sponserships or tournaments or what not. Be greatful.
Quake begs to differ.
Quake, Counter-Strike, Chinese DOTA and (although hostile to the semantic traps that the word esports presents) Fighting games all beg to differ. I love BW but the elitism from said community is disgusting sometimes.
I apologize for my seeming arrogance and elitism, I am fairly... in the dark about CS, Quake, DOTA, and those fighters. That and my teach was about to pull me off my computer sciences class right after I was finished posting
On May 03 2012 06:58 Phant wrote: I consider this a bitter-sweet ending to BW.
On one hand, a game we've loved since 1998 is finally coming to an end competitively, the game that started it all. On the other hand all the great players are likely transitioning over to SC2 so we can still see them play in a similar game. Also with the improvements in the UI, older progamers still have a shot at being just as competitive as younger players. There could be a point in the future where we have Boxer, Nada, JulyZerg, Bisu, Flash, and Jaedong competing at the same time in the same tournament. To me that would be awesome, even though a player like Flash is almost untouchable in BW, matches could be much closer in SC2 since the mechanical ceiling is much lower. Though it may sound like a con, I think a more accessible game is great for expanding the audience.
I'm looking forward to the future of SC2, and hope the new SC2 leagues are a success.
Currently is the keyword here. The standard of competitive play is what fuels the drive to play faster and more accurately. Especially when the game boils down to "millimeters" of difference. With the inclusion of a whole high level competitive scene in BW, the mechanical skill expectation for winning a major tournament has a high probably of increasing at a higher rate then it is currently.
Unless I a missing some fundamental throttle built into SC2, I feeling like a lot of BW pro interpretations of the game being "faster" means we will likely see sprint or dash competitiion versus a marathon type deal.
On May 03 2012 07:12 howLiN wrote: Are people seriously so mad that they're calling LoL a worthier successor to BW than SC2? That doesn't even make any sense lol.
Both of those games are popular in Korea (LOL at 10% and BW at 5% currently in PCBang ratings) whereas SC2 isn't (>1%). LOL is even stronger than BW arguably since it is also popular outside of Korea.
On May 03 2012 03:11 howLiN wrote: So, when are we gonna get the interviews?
On May 03 2012 02:49 Sum41 wrote:
On May 03 2012 01:45 BlueFlames wrote:
On May 03 2012 00:29 Sum41 wrote:
On May 03 2012 00:08 SC_Ghost wrote:
On May 02 2012 23:56 Sum41 wrote: this is a shit, they change broodwar for a inferior game just because of the $$, don't matter what you say, starcraft broodwar is much better. and Sc2 will never be as good as BW, won't last for so long, and as well as BW did
This are good games, not like the boring stuff from Sc2!, watch it and learn what's really awesome. nothing in Sc2 will be compared to the feeling that bring this game, or The Jangbi vs Fantasy finals, Jaedong vs Stork in The OSL Ever Finals, etc.
While i agree with the elitism of BW, it being a harder or more complex game and it being a better candidate for esports, in terms of technology it is simply outdated. Unfortunately the game uses technology that is 15 years old. When technology ages someone else develops a new version to replace it. Again, unfortunately, that is the case here: A large portion of why BW is being made redundant is because the technology is so outdated.
the only thing that the technology has done is give better graphic to Sc2, in all the other aspects BW is superior. and play a game just for the graphics is like watch a porn movie for the argument -_-;
that's why it's reatarded to kill BW, for a dumb game like SC2
Bad comparison. You could compare old graphics with porn, but you would have to compare VHS vs Blueray or something. Also i personally dont agree that BW is the better game. Thats just my opinion though.
On topic. I really hope that the speculations about the old bw players and the sc2 players beeing able to participate in any league comes true. I want to see the best players to compete in all tournaments they chose to do so. I dont want to see a division or something even more stupid. For me its a good sign that all the parties seem to be talking and that Kespa seems to try a global approach with SC2. Now all i need is LAN Blizzard. Your stupid excuses fool noone!
if you think that SC broodwar isn't a better game, then you don't know anything about broodwar. it's much more strategic, it's more complex, requires more skill. i think that you have never played Broodwar, people that hasn't played it, or don't know too much about it, doesn't know how deep the gameplay is.
And SC2 has been made to casual players, you don't need great skill to play it at a decent level, or lot of knowledge to be good
I know you're mad, but you can stop it now. We're not getting anything from your argument other than you shitting on SC2.
What he's saying isn't actually incorrect. As it stands Brood War is a much more strategic game due to a lot of different factors, in particular because of how better your mechanics have to be, but also because it's had more than 10 years to develop.
You need to understand the difference in tactics and strategy. Harder mechanics means harder to perform tactics. It's the same difference between an easy song on DDR and a hard song on DDR. There is no change in strategy value (if the controls were different in BW, you would still have the same openings, same timing attacks, same management styles, etc).
Saying that BW is more strategic because of harder mechanics is incorrect.
On May 03 2012 03:57 Bareleon wrote: Oh hey guess what I found out about SC2.......it is not BW!!!!!! Is this game called SC2 BW? or BW2? Nope! Different game is different!!! No way!!!!
If you cannot accept it, and the changes it has, then stick to BW, easy as that.
And if people finds it so easy, try to become a pro at it or at least get to Master league in two months if you claim it is sooo easy.
What I learned a while ago: not everyone can accept change or has an easy time adapting to a change.
Of course Star 2 isn't Brood War, its a game that carries the same name, with similar units, that look prettier. Most of us will stick to BW, thanks for that. Master league in two months? We're mostly complete scrubs at BW, at Star2 I ended up getting high plat/diamond when I played like a year ago Of course we can't accept change, BW is, and always will be, what I looked forward too after a long day at school, my dad would always watch with me and we'd play some games together after the matches were done. Brood War is something I've played off and on, but have followed for ages. Brood War isn't just a hobby, nor is it just "another game," It's been the last decade of my life. And I have last thing to say. + Show Spoiler +
Fuck eSports or ESPORT or esport.
There wouldnt' be an "Esports" without Brood War, be thankful. There wouldn't be all of these sponserships or tournaments or what not. Be greatful.
Just want to say that A) Plat/Diamond is incredibly scrubby and B) The games aren't similar at all really.
Other than that continue to cry about how esports is an awful thing now that BW isn't a part of it. Sad I know, but doesn't mean you can shit on the rest of esports which certainly isn't limited to nor based on BW.
Esports means nothing to me. Plat/Diamond is seriously scrubby, coming from someone that was Keyboard/CPU rank in Iccup. The games are similar in name, basic lay out. Ofcourse that doesn't mean that they are, like say the carbon copying the Call of Duty franchise has become. But they are similar enough.
On May 03 2012 03:57 Bareleon wrote: Oh hey guess what I found out about SC2.......it is not BW!!!!!! Is this game called SC2 BW? or BW2? Nope! Different game is different!!! No way!!!!
If you cannot accept it, and the changes it has, then stick to BW, easy as that.
And if people finds it so easy, try to become a pro at it or at least get to Master league in two months if you claim it is sooo easy.
What I learned a while ago: not everyone can accept change or has an easy time adapting to a change.
Of course Star 2 isn't Brood War, its a game that carries the same name, with similar units, that look prettier. Most of us will stick to BW, thanks for that. Master league in two months? We're mostly complete scrubs at BW, at Star2 I ended up getting high plat/diamond when I played like a year ago Of course we can't accept change, BW is, and always will be, what I looked forward too after a long day at school, my dad would always watch with me and we'd play some games together after the matches were done. Brood War is something I've played off and on, but have followed for ages. Brood War isn't just a hobby, nor is it just "another game," It's been the last decade of my life. And I have last thing to say. + Show Spoiler +
Fuck eSports or ESPORT or esport.
There wouldnt' be an "Esports" without Brood War, be thankful. There wouldn't be all of these sponserships or tournaments or what not. Be greatful.
Quake begs to differ.
Quake, Counter-Strike, Chinese DOTA and (although hostile to the semantic traps that the word esports presents) Fighting games all beg to differ. I love BW but the elitism from said community is disgusting sometimes.
I apologize for my seeming arrogance and elitism, I am fairly... in the dark about CS, Quake, DOTA, and those fighters. That and my teach was about to pull me off my computer sciences class right after I was finished posting
I think what annoys me the most about some brood war posters these days is how they suddenly care about ladder ranks (although you were baited into it by someone meaning to defend SC2).
It ment almost nothing in brood war, and it means almost nothing in SC2.
On May 03 2012 07:12 howLiN wrote: Are people seriously so mad that they're calling LoL a worthier successor to BW than SC2? That doesn't even make any sense lol.
Both of those games are popular in Korea (LOL at 10% and BW at 5% currently in PCBang ratings) whereas SC2 isn't (>1%). LOL is even stronger than BW arguably since it is also popular outside of Korea.
To be fair... I'm guessing this has something to do with the fact that you still need a BNet account to actually play SC2 at a PCBang, while LoL and BW anyone can jump in and start playing. I would imagine more SC2 players simply play the game at home.
In addition, couldn't see much regarding the treatment of foreigners in a potential SC2 OSL. I hope KESPA won't make them have to jump through too many hoops so that they are able to compete fairly, especially since it sounds current BW players will be able to slide without much issue into future GSL's. Still, not a lot of groundbreaking information from this meeting, though given Kespa's insularity this is a big step for them.
Another issue to deal with will be the running of future editions of PL. If the current BW pros are going to be competing in GSL's and other international tournaments as it is currently assumed, I wonder how viable it is going to be to run a SC2 PL the same way the current BW PL is run, with many of the players potentially flying to DH, MLG, IPL, et. al. No matter how much you talk to other organizers, I just don't think they'll be able to come to arrangements that make everyone happy (players get to travel over the world and compete for large gobs of money and a professional team league with a tight schedule is played on time).
Still plenty exciting times though, hope the positive outweighs the negative.
On May 03 2012 07:12 howLiN wrote: Are people seriously so mad that they're calling LoL a worthier successor to BW than SC2? That doesn't even make any sense lol.
Both of those games are popular in Korea (LOL at 10% and BW at 5% currently in PCBang ratings) whereas SC2 isn't (>1%). LOL is even stronger than BW arguably since it is also popular outside of Korea.
To be fair... I'm guessing this has something to do with the fact that you still need a BNet account to actually play SC2 at a PCBang, while LoL and BW anyone can jump in and start playing. I would imagine more SC2 players simply play the game at home.
Not only is it free to play LoL, PCBang version has all champions unlocked, which is huge in a game where you pay to play champions not on the free rotation.
On May 03 2012 07:12 howLiN wrote: Are people seriously so mad that they're calling LoL a worthier successor to BW than SC2? That doesn't even make any sense lol.
Both of those games are popular in Korea (LOL at 10% and BW at 5% currently in PCBang ratings) whereas SC2 isn't (>1%). LOL is even stronger than BW arguably since it is also popular outside of Korea.
To be fair... I'm guessing this has something to do with the fact that you still need a BNet account to actually play SC2 at a PCBang, while LoL and BW anyone can jump in and start playing. I would imagine more SC2 players simply play the game at home.
PC cafes in the USA have SC2 accounts for people to use. It should be the same in Korea.
On May 02 2012 22:55 GeLaar wrote: I can't believe Blizzard pulled this off. I can't believe the Korean e-sports organisations let themselves get into a situation where Blizzard has them by the balls.
OGN and Kespa are taking some pretty big risks: 1. They might alienate their Korean fans - there is only one game that every Korean grew up knowing, and they're turing their backs on it and saying "Hey, let's have millions of people switch to this other game!". I'm curious to see if this will work, and if it does, how many times it will work (because they will have to do it again for the two "expansions", and for SC3, and so on.)
2. Since SC2 doesn't have LAN, these organisations are now completely at Blizzard's mercy. Blizzard now has the power to pull the plug on Proleague or any other event, without having to go to the Korean courts. With Brood War, the situation was different. After Blizzard backed out of the lawsuit, it was theirs to do whatever they wanted with it. That's a pretty big thing they gave away. I hope for their sake that the relationship doesn't sour, and that Blizzard doesn't decide to change the deal.
Overall, it's clear to me why Kespa and OGN did it. It's right there in the statement: international exposure. They are likely to get it, but the risks they are taking seem immense to me.
It is a huge change, and if handled correctly and professionally it will be a huge step forward. I understand your concerns completely, I can see how if it was to go sour it would destroy an entire industry that's been over 10 years in the making. One thing that's clear for me is that if there are disputes amongst the united organisations it would no doubt be fixed without any underlying injustice. All of these organisations care about esports and, being a business, also care about money and the industry. I'm sure that Blizzard (as well as the other parties involved) won't impose such a dictatorial attitude due to the fact that success for ALL of the organisations means success for each of them, if they hurt their partners then in turn they hurt themselves.
No, blizzard does not care about esport. Otherwise they wouldn't have tried to kill BW so badly. So far they have shown they're too incompetent to fix sc2, so I hope what they did will bite them in the ass. They're becoming the new EA, screw them...
That's an interesting opinion. It has left me wondering, If they didn't care about esports why would they take part in this union? Surely if esports promotes their game, then esports is something worth investing time and resources into since it makes them more money, right? So that means they must care about esports because of their investments.
They are trying to sell a new game. They don't really care about games they aren't making money from any more and aren't really concerned with the overall health and quality of esports, just New Blizzard Products.
Blizzard realize that they failed miserable in the Korean launch of Starcraft II (along with squandering links to the most incredible esports scene ever) and are looking at LoL making WoW type cash. They want a piece of the Korean pie and this is how they are doing it, putting SC2 on the front and center of the biggest gaming broadcaster in SK, mainly via legal muscle rather than any concern about ESPORTS/.
Can we start some kind of online petition??
Online petitions involving the least important, least numerous component of the BW community, sounds like a fantastic idea! No this isn't going to be changed by anything, my BW heart is cold and dead since Kpop killed MBC. Blizzard can do what they like with SC2, I am beginning to get to the point where I truly think its going to be a dead game in a years time.
Like BW? Trust me, sc2 will last generations longer than BW.
Ok so we have SC2 pretty much dead on arrival in Korea, the scene there has easily the most talented, hard-working players, putting in hours to become the best but an extremely low amount of Korean fans cheering them on. It doesn't get played in PC Bangs, due to ridiculous Bnet account requirements, plus you can play LoL with your friends with ALL THE HERO'S UNLOCKED!. So the main place where Korean gamers congregate and discuss games has little to no SC2 in it. GOM heavily relys on subs from the foreign community to keep going, with pathetic studio attendances and their incredible production skills making up for small audiences at finals. Korean teams have all been living on the edge, with some teams like Zenex needing their players to pay to stay in team-house rather than the other way around. IM and FXO are the only teams with stable sponsors.
In the foreigner scene we have a growing movement of apathy towards the trend of Korean domination in tournaments. GOM has the Code S seed to get foreigner subs for GSL more than anything. Foreigner teams care more about being players having a following and being active on social media, which is fair enough seeing as they have a business to run which is more like a charity. Foreigner fans argue more about casters than the actual game. LoL is getting huge in the West as well, pulling gigantic numbers. The game itself has some serious design issues, both in gameplay and UI. Without radical intervention by Blizzard I don't see it being around for very long.
Jesus Christ, Klonere I want to say I agree with all of your posts, I have nothing more to add.
On May 03 2012 07:12 howLiN wrote: Are people seriously so mad that they're calling LoL a worthier successor to BW than SC2? That doesn't even make any sense lol.
Both of those games are popular in Korea (LOL at 10% and BW at 5% currently in PCBang ratings) whereas SC2 isn't (>1%). LOL is even stronger than BW arguably since it is also popular outside of Korea.
To be fair... I'm guessing this has something to do with the fact that you still need a BNet account to actually play SC2 at a PCBang, while LoL and BW anyone can jump in and start playing. I would imagine more SC2 players simply play the game at home.
PC cafes in the USA have SC2 accounts for people to use. It should be the same in Korea.
I don't think that's a given fact, nor do I believe that every PC cafe in the U.S. does that. So there certainly is some truth to how other games are more accessible and easier to play, thus being more prominent in Korean PC bangs. I will be going to Korea in 10 days for the first time and I am not expecting to be able to play SC2 in a PC bang there. I guess I will see how it will be.
As for these latest developments: A lot of these things were already rumored about, but now it's been made official that BW pros along with the respective organizations will make the switch to SC2. And thus I hope the current illwill of various factions of the TL community toward each other will also come to an end.
BW gamers at MLG with HotS means only one thing... we'll have bw gamers test out the game for feedback. so all is not lost. really hoping this new cooperation will snowball into something big... because i dont want a game like LoL to stomp bw/starcraft.
It is a huge change, and if handled correctly and professionally it will be a huge step forward. I understand your concerns completely, I can see how if it was to go sour it would destroy an entire industry that's been over 10 years in the making. One thing that's clear for me is that if there are disputes amongst the united organisations it would no doubt be fixed without any underlying injustice. All of these organisations care about esports and, being a business, also care about money and the industry. I'm sure that Blizzard (as well as the other parties involved) won't impose such a dictatorial attitude due to the fact that success for ALL of the organisations means success for each of them, if they hurt their partners then in turn they hurt themselves.
No, blizzard does not care about esport. Otherwise they wouldn't have tried to kill BW so badly. So far they have shown they're too incompetent to fix sc2, so I hope what they did will bite them in the ass. They're becoming the new EA, screw them...
That's an interesting opinion. It has left me wondering, If they didn't care about esports why would they take part in this union? Surely if esports promotes their game, then esports is something worth investing time and resources into since it makes them more money, right? So that means they must care about esports because of their investments.
They are trying to sell a new game. They don't really care about games they aren't making money from any more and aren't really concerned with the overall health and quality of esports, just New Blizzard Products.
Blizzard realize that they failed miserable in the Korean launch of Starcraft II (along with squandering links to the most incredible esports scene ever) and are looking at LoL making WoW type cash. They want a piece of the Korean pie and this is how they are doing it, putting SC2 on the front and center of the biggest gaming broadcaster in SK, mainly via legal muscle rather than any concern about ESPORTS/.
Can we start some kind of online petition??
Online petitions involving the least important, least numerous component of the BW community, sounds like a fantastic idea! No this isn't going to be changed by anything, my BW heart is cold and dead since Kpop killed MBC. Blizzard can do what they like with SC2, I am beginning to get to the point where I truly think its going to be a dead game in a years time.
Like BW? Trust me, sc2 will last generations longer than BW.
Ok so we have SC2 pretty much dead on arrival in Korea, the scene there has easily the most talented, hard-working players, putting in hours to become the best but an extremely low amount of Korean fans cheering them on. It doesn't get played in PC Bangs, due to ridiculous Bnet account requirements, plus you can play LoL with your friends with ALL THE HERO'S UNLOCKED!. So the main place where Korean gamers congregate and discuss games has little to no SC2 in it. GOM heavily relys on subs from the foreign community to keep going, with pathetic studio attendances and their incredible production skills making up for small audiences at finals. Korean teams have all been living on the edge, with some teams like Zenex needing their players to pay to stay in team-house rather than the other way around. IM and FXO are the only teams with stable sponsors.
In the foreigner scene we have a growing movement of apathy towards the trend of Korean domination in tournaments. GOM has the Code S seed to get foreigner subs for GSL more than anything. Foreigner teams care more about being players having a following and being active on social media, which is fair enough seeing as they have a business to run which is more like a charity. Foreigner fans argue more about casters than the actual game. LoL is getting huge in the West as well, pulling gigantic numbers. The game itself has some serious design issues, both in gameplay and UI. Without radical intervention by Blizzard I don't see it being around for very long.
Jesus Christ, Klonere I want to say I agree with all of your posts, I have nothing more to add.
I also see where Klonere is coming from, but he's wrong.
He is arguing from a doomsday perspective, and LoL getting massive means they get the largest part of the eSports pie, not all the esports pie. Serious design issues in gameplay and UI is debatable, esp from just watching pros play. Essentially, all of the criticisms he brings up are things that should be written in a history textbook, not used as evidence of a dead game.
Didn't WoW arena have tons of viewers too? That was a great esport game, right?! MOBA is impenetrable for people not playing the game, RTS can be rather easily watched by anyone without ever touching the game.
On May 03 2012 05:30 Klonere wrote: Online petitions involving the least important, least numerous component of the BW community, sounds like a fantastic idea! No this isn't going to be changed by anything, my BW heart is cold and dead since Kpop killed MBC. Blizzard can do what they like with SC2, I am beginning to get to the point where I truly think its going to be a dead game in a years time.
There is 0 probability that competitive SC2 is "dead" by May 2013. The game will still be developing as Blizzard continues to balance the game and prepares for new multiplayer units for Legacy of the Void.
Frank Pierce stated he views SC2 as a 10 year eSports project and that "PC sales records" are nice, but really are nothing they are going to celebrate over.
How many Blizzard games died before its expansions came out? 0 How many months/years does it take for your Blizzard games to "die" after its final expansion is complete?
On May 03 2012 07:12 howLiN wrote: Are people seriously so mad that they're calling LoL a worthier successor to BW than SC2? That doesn't even make any sense lol.
Both of those games are popular in Korea (LOL at 10% and BW at 5% currently in PCBang ratings) whereas SC2 isn't (>1%). LOL is even stronger than BW arguably since it is also popular outside of Korea.
Oh, so you people follow what's popular. I see. Maybe you don't actually give a shit about the game, maybe what you actually want is the crowds, the pretty boys, and the grandeur. That's enlightning.
On May 03 2012 07:12 howLiN wrote: Are people seriously so mad that they're calling LoL a worthier successor to BW than SC2? That doesn't even make any sense lol.
Both of those games are popular in Korea (LOL at 10% and BW at 5% currently in PCBang ratings) whereas SC2 isn't (>1%). LOL is even stronger than BW arguably since it is also popular outside of Korea.
Oh, so you people follow what's popular. I see. Maybe you don't actually give a shit about the game, maybe what you actually want is the crowds, the pretty boys, and the grandeur. That's enlightning.
But popularity in society is quite important to anything being appreciated and given the attention that would do it justice. I'd still enjoy Starcraft (either one, both) even if it wasn't hugely successful/popular just to play it with whoever and watch the odd stream and occasional tournaments, but if we are talking about making a great "esport" it needs to be popular, have the audience numbers and player base so that we continually gather great players, set up great teams, show great games and build up legacies and legends that will inspire.
Also, come on, don't be so negative and dismissive, of other people or other games. <3
On May 03 2012 07:12 howLiN wrote: Are people seriously so mad that they're calling LoL a worthier successor to BW than SC2? That doesn't even make any sense lol.
SC2 doesn't even come close to the popularity that LoL has at the moment in Korea...or even worldwide for that matter.
For a second, I was worried that Team 8, Airforce Ace, TSL, oGs, and Zenex players weren't on ESFI's list of confirmed players attending the event, but it turns out that there wasn't that much to worry about. After seeing photos of the event, I've spotted a Zenex player, an oGs player in their new uniform polo shirt, Jaedong representing Team 8, possibly Piano representing Airforce Ace, and Polt representing TSL. So everyone was there.
On May 03 2012 07:12 howLiN wrote: Are people seriously so mad that they're calling LoL a worthier successor to BW than SC2? That doesn't even make any sense lol.
SC2 doesn't even come close to the popularity that LoL has at the moment in Korea...or even worldwide for that matter.
Neither did BW? SC2 doesn't have to slay the LoL giant to carry on BW's legacy. Just let what may be be.
On May 04 2012 06:54 eviltomahawk wrote: For a second, I was worried that Team 8, Airforce Ace, TSL, oGs, and Zenex players weren't on ESFI's list of confirmed players attending the event, but it turns out that there wasn't that much to worry about. After seeing photos of the event, I've spotted a Zenex player, an oGs player in their new uniform polo shirt, Jaedong representing Team 8, possibly Piano representing Airforce Ace, and Polt representing TSL. So everyone was there.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure every Korea-based team (from Proleague and GSTL) had at least one player and coach there.
Just looking at the above picture from pgr21.com you can already see (from left to right):
On May 04 2012 06:54 eviltomahawk wrote: For a second, I was worried that Team 8, Airforce Ace, TSL, oGs, and Zenex players weren't on ESFI's list of confirmed players attending the event, but it turns out that there wasn't that much to worry about. After seeing photos of the event, I've spotted a Zenex player, an oGs player in their new uniform polo shirt, Jaedong representing Team 8, possibly Piano representing Airforce Ace, and Polt representing TSL. So everyone was there.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure every Korea-based team (from Proleague and GSTL) had at least one player and coach there.
EPT
... Jaedong?? Stork?? These two are my personal favs.. so I´d love to hear about them
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![[image loading]](http://cfile10.uf.tistory.com/image/18122D374FA0E5AF156C5E)
Old Generations
![[image loading]](http://leveltory.com/files/attach/images/246/120/008/6fee1c2f98e2824af01e78e1e06322a0.JPG)
