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I consider this a bitter-sweet ending to BW.
On one hand, a game we've loved since 1998 is finally coming to an end competitively, the game that started it all. On the other hand all the great players are likely transitioning over to SC2 so we can still see them play in a similar game. Also with the improvements in the UI, older progamers still have a shot at being just as competitive as younger players. There could be a point in the future where we have Boxer, Nada, JulyZerg, Bisu, Flash, and Jaedong competing at the same time in the same tournament. To me that would be awesome, even though a player like Flash is almost untouchable in BW, matches could be much closer in SC2 since the mechanical ceiling is much lower. Though it may sound like a con, I think a more accessible game is great for expanding the audience.
I'm looking forward to the future of SC2, and hope the new SC2 leagues are a success.
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Are people seriously so mad that they're calling LoL a worthier successor to BW than SC2? That doesn't even make any sense lol.
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On May 03 2012 06:48 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 06:27 Bareleon wrote:On May 03 2012 06:13 maybenexttime wrote:On May 03 2012 06:04 Bareleon wrote:
Lol this turned into BW vs. SC2.
But no worries my SC2 brethren, we shall prevail!! The better game. SC2 shall win!!! In what regard? Graphics? Maybe you should consider playing Crysis since gameplay doesn't seem to be your kind of thing.  I actually prefer game play over graphics, unlike you it seems. And most games to me are boring. Its not very often I find a game that I enjoy. you called sc2 the better game...i can't help but think majority of those who played both games for long time will say bw is better in terms of game play regarding units and spells and their relation to each other. i'm glad you enjoy sc2 though, many bw people do also.
I think the current SC2 gameplay makes it clear, because every single match up is deathball vs deathball.
sadly people now is more drived by flashy graphics than gameplay. I don't think this thinking would make a game last 10 years though.
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Ahhh, No Flash interview ?  would of been epic, unless they secretly got one and never put it on there until tomorrow?!?!? one can hope 
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Some of the users complaining about BW being the better game and what not need to go back and watch some of the old StarLeague games (like before they got the red, white, and black colors being official for the OSL) and learn the history behind Brood War's games. BW used to be full of gimmicky, shaky, and downright awful strategy compared to what it is today. That is the stage that StarCraft 2 feels like it is at right now. Overtime strategies will mature into something that does resemble the complexity of Brood War's strategies do. It's somewhat irritating to see users taking the action from players like Bisu, Flash, Jaedong, JangBi and what not for granted when old school players like BoxeR, Garmitio, ChRh, and H.O.T-Forever laid out the foundations for the star players today (and their skill levels back then were not even remotely close to what it is today with extremely few being exceptions).
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Hot Bid will be on tonight to reveal some exclusive news on TSL4, and TeamLiquid EIC Waxangel and Torch of OGN, former GOM will be on to talk about the new deal between Kespa/OGN/Blizzard. Plus Naniwa losing to MVP, HotS at MLG Anaheim and more! Waxangel will also be on tonight live from Korea! Goes live in 20 minutes on http://www.Twitch.tv/OneMoreGameTV
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On May 03 2012 04:22 Klonere wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 04:18 X10A wrote:On May 03 2012 03:57 Bareleon wrote:
Oh hey guess what I found out about SC2.......it is not BW!!!!!! Is this game called SC2 BW? or BW2? Nope! Different game is different!!! No way!!!!
If you cannot accept it, and the changes it has, then stick to BW, easy as that.
And if people finds it so easy, try to become a pro at it or at least get to Master league in two months if you claim it is sooo easy.
What I learned a while ago: not everyone can accept change or has an easy time adapting to a change. Of course Star 2 isn't Brood War, its a game that carries the same name, with similar units, that look prettier. Most of us will stick to BW, thanks for that. Master league in two months? We're mostly complete scrubs at BW, at Star2 I ended up getting high plat/diamond when I played like a year ago Of course we can't accept change, BW is, and always will be, what I looked forward too after a long day at school, my dad would always watch with me and we'd play some games together after the matches were done. Brood War is something I've played off and on, but have followed for ages. Brood War isn't just a hobby, nor is it just "another game," It's been the last decade of my life. And I have last thing to say. + Show Spoiler +Fuck eSports or ESPORT or esport. There wouldnt' be an "Esports" without Brood War, be thankful. There wouldn't be all of these sponserships or tournaments or what not. Be greatful. Just want to say that A) Plat/Diamond is incredibly scrubby and B) The games aren't similar at all really. Other than that continue to cry about how esports is an awful thing now that BW isn't a part of it. Sad I know, but doesn't mean you can shit on the rest of esports which certainly isn't limited to nor based on BW.
Esports means nothing to me.
Plat/Diamond is seriously scrubby, coming from someone that was Keyboard/CPU rank in Iccup. The games are similar in name, basic lay out. Ofcourse that doesn't mean that they are, like say the carbon copying the Call of Duty franchise has become. But they are similar enough.
On May 03 2012 04:28 Klonere wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 04:23 Serek wrote:On May 03 2012 04:18 X10A wrote:On May 03 2012 03:57 Bareleon wrote:
Oh hey guess what I found out about SC2.......it is not BW!!!!!! Is this game called SC2 BW? or BW2? Nope! Different game is different!!! No way!!!!
If you cannot accept it, and the changes it has, then stick to BW, easy as that.
And if people finds it so easy, try to become a pro at it or at least get to Master league in two months if you claim it is sooo easy.
What I learned a while ago: not everyone can accept change or has an easy time adapting to a change. Of course Star 2 isn't Brood War, its a game that carries the same name, with similar units, that look prettier. Most of us will stick to BW, thanks for that. Master league in two months? We're mostly complete scrubs at BW, at Star2 I ended up getting high plat/diamond when I played like a year ago Of course we can't accept change, BW is, and always will be, what I looked forward too after a long day at school, my dad would always watch with me and we'd play some games together after the matches were done. Brood War is something I've played off and on, but have followed for ages. Brood War isn't just a hobby, nor is it just "another game," It's been the last decade of my life. And I have last thing to say. + Show Spoiler +Fuck eSports or ESPORT or esport. , be thankful. There wouldn't be all of these sponserships or tournaments or what not. Be greatful. Quake begs to differ. Quake, Counter-Strike, Chinese DOTA and (although hostile to the semantic traps that the word esports presents) Fighting games all beg to differ. I love BW but the elitism from said community is disgusting sometimes.
I apologize for my seeming arrogance and elitism, I am fairly... in the dark about CS, Quake, DOTA, and those fighters. That and my teach was about to pull me off my computer sciences class right after I was finished posting
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On May 03 2012 06:58 Phant wrote:
I consider this a bitter-sweet ending to BW.
On one hand, a game we've loved since 1998 is finally coming to an end competitively, the game that started it all. On the other hand all the great players are likely transitioning over to SC2 so we can still see them play in a similar game. Also with the improvements in the UI, older progamers still have a shot at being just as competitive as younger players. There could be a point in the future where we have Boxer, Nada, JulyZerg, Bisu, Flash, and Jaedong competing at the same time in the same tournament. To me that would be awesome, even though a player like Flash is almost untouchable in BW, matches could be much closer in SC2 since the mechanical ceiling is much lower. Though it may sound like a con, I think a more accessible game is great for expanding the audience.
I'm looking forward to the future of SC2, and hope the new SC2 leagues are a success.
Currently is the keyword here. The standard of competitive play is what fuels the drive to play faster and more accurately. Especially when the game boils down to "millimeters" of difference. With the inclusion of a whole high level competitive scene in BW, the mechanical skill expectation for winning a major tournament has a high probably of increasing at a higher rate then it is currently.
Unless I a missing some fundamental throttle built into SC2, I feeling like a lot of BW pro interpretations of the game being "faster" means we will likely see sprint or dash competitiion versus a marathon type deal.
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well, i guess what's done it's done, nothing that i can type or any other guy that really know what starcraft is will change the mind of SC2 players,
Kespa, BLizzard, OGN, etc. make money with your game with pretty graphics, let's see how long last the casual players that watch it and play it.
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On May 03 2012 07:12 howLiN wrote:
Are people seriously so mad that they're calling LoL a worthier successor to BW than SC2? That doesn't even make any sense lol.
Both of those games are popular in Korea (LOL at 10% and BW at 5% currently in PCBang ratings) whereas SC2 isn't (>1%). LOL is even stronger than BW arguably since it is also popular outside of Korea.
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On May 03 2012 03:31 Shrewmy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 03:11 howLiN wrote:So, when are we gonna get the interviews? On May 03 2012 02:49 Sum41 wrote:On May 03 2012 01:45 BlueFlames wrote:On May 03 2012 00:29 Sum41 wrote:On May 03 2012 00:08 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 02 2012 23:56 Sum41 wrote:this is a shit, they change broodwar for a inferior game just because of the $$, don't matter what you say, starcraft broodwar is much better. and Sc2 will never be as good as BW, won't last for so long, and as well as BW did This are good games, not like the boring stuff from Sc2!, watch it and learn what's really awesome. nothing in Sc2 will be compared to the feeling that bring this game, or The Jangbi vs Fantasy finals, Jaedong vs Stork in The OSL Ever Finals, etc. While i agree with the elitism of BW, it being a harder or more complex game and it being a better candidate for esports, in terms of technology it is simply outdated. Unfortunately the game uses technology that is 15 years old. When technology ages someone else develops a new version to replace it. Again, unfortunately, that is the case here: A large portion of why BW is being made redundant is because the technology is so outdated. the only thing that the technology has done is give better graphic to Sc2, in all the other aspects BW is superior. and play a game just for the graphics is like watch a porn movie for the argument -_-; that's why it's reatarded to kill BW, for a dumb game like SC2 Bad comparison. You could compare old graphics with porn, but you would have to compare VHS vs Blueray or something. Also i personally dont agree that BW is the better game. Thats just my opinion though. On topic. I really hope that the speculations about the old bw players and the sc2 players beeing able to participate in any league comes true. I want to see the best players to compete in all tournaments they chose to do so. I dont want to see a division or something even more stupid. For me its a good sign that all the parties seem to be talking and that Kespa seems to try a global approach with SC2. Now all i need is LAN Blizzard. Your stupid excuses fool noone! if you think that SC broodwar isn't a better game, then you don't know anything about broodwar. it's much more strategic, it's more complex, requires more skill. i think that you have never played Broodwar, people that hasn't played it, or don't know too much about it, doesn't know how deep the gameplay is. And SC2 has been made to casual players, you don't need great skill to play it at a decent level, or lot of knowledge to be good I know you're mad, but you can stop it now. We're not getting anything from your argument other than you shitting on SC2. What he's saying isn't actually incorrect. As it stands Brood War is a much more strategic game due to a lot of different factors, in particular because of how better your mechanics have to be, but also because it's had more than 10 years to develop.
You need to understand the difference in tactics and strategy. Harder mechanics means harder to perform tactics. It's the same difference between an easy song on DDR and a hard song on DDR. There is no change in strategy value (if the controls were different in BW, you would still have the same openings, same timing attacks, same management styles, etc).
Saying that BW is more strategic because of harder mechanics is incorrect.
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On May 03 2012 07:49 X10A wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 04:22 Klonere wrote:On May 03 2012 04:18 X10A wrote:On May 03 2012 03:57 Bareleon wrote:
Oh hey guess what I found out about SC2.......it is not BW!!!!!! Is this game called SC2 BW? or BW2? Nope! Different game is different!!! No way!!!!
If you cannot accept it, and the changes it has, then stick to BW, easy as that.
And if people finds it so easy, try to become a pro at it or at least get to Master league in two months if you claim it is sooo easy.
What I learned a while ago: not everyone can accept change or has an easy time adapting to a change. Of course Star 2 isn't Brood War, its a game that carries the same name, with similar units, that look prettier. Most of us will stick to BW, thanks for that. Master league in two months? We're mostly complete scrubs at BW, at Star2 I ended up getting high plat/diamond when I played like a year ago Of course we can't accept change, BW is, and always will be, what I looked forward too after a long day at school, my dad would always watch with me and we'd play some games together after the matches were done. Brood War is something I've played off and on, but have followed for ages. Brood War isn't just a hobby, nor is it just "another game," It's been the last decade of my life. And I have last thing to say. + Show Spoiler +Fuck eSports or ESPORT or esport. There wouldnt' be an "Esports" without Brood War, be thankful. There wouldn't be all of these sponserships or tournaments or what not. Be greatful. Just want to say that A) Plat/Diamond is incredibly scrubby and B) The games aren't similar at all really. Other than that continue to cry about how esports is an awful thing now that BW isn't a part of it. Sad I know, but doesn't mean you can shit on the rest of esports which certainly isn't limited to nor based on BW. Esports means nothing to me. Plat/Diamond is seriously scrubby, coming from someone that was Keyboard/CPU rank in Iccup. The games are similar in name, basic lay out. Ofcourse that doesn't mean that they are, like say the carbon copying the Call of Duty franchise has become. But they are similar enough. Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 04:28 Klonere wrote:On May 03 2012 04:23 Serek wrote:On May 03 2012 04:18 X10A wrote:On May 03 2012 03:57 Bareleon wrote:
Oh hey guess what I found out about SC2.......it is not BW!!!!!! Is this game called SC2 BW? or BW2? Nope! Different game is different!!! No way!!!!
If you cannot accept it, and the changes it has, then stick to BW, easy as that.
And if people finds it so easy, try to become a pro at it or at least get to Master league in two months if you claim it is sooo easy.
What I learned a while ago: not everyone can accept change or has an easy time adapting to a change. Of course Star 2 isn't Brood War, its a game that carries the same name, with similar units, that look prettier. Most of us will stick to BW, thanks for that. Master league in two months? We're mostly complete scrubs at BW, at Star2 I ended up getting high plat/diamond when I played like a year ago Of course we can't accept change, BW is, and always will be, what I looked forward too after a long day at school, my dad would always watch with me and we'd play some games together after the matches were done. Brood War is something I've played off and on, but have followed for ages. Brood War isn't just a hobby, nor is it just "another game," It's been the last decade of my life. And I have last thing to say. + Show Spoiler +Fuck eSports or ESPORT or esport. , be thankful. There wouldn't be all of these sponserships or tournaments or what not. Be greatful. Quake begs to differ. Quake, Counter-Strike, Chinese DOTA and (although hostile to the semantic traps that the word esports presents) Fighting games all beg to differ. I love BW but the elitism from said community is disgusting sometimes. I apologize for my seeming arrogance and elitism, I am fairly... in the dark about CS, Quake, DOTA, and those fighters. That and my teach was about to pull me off my computer sciences class right after I was finished posting
I think what annoys me the most about some brood war posters these days is how they suddenly care about ladder ranks (although you were baited into it by someone meaning to defend SC2).
It ment almost nothing in brood war, and it means almost nothing in SC2.
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On May 03 2012 08:03 hydrogg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 07:12 howLiN wrote:
Are people seriously so mad that they're calling LoL a worthier successor to BW than SC2? That doesn't even make any sense lol. Both of those games are popular in Korea (LOL at 10% and BW at 5% currently in PCBang ratings) whereas SC2 isn't (>1%). LOL is even stronger than BW arguably since it is also popular outside of Korea.
To be fair... I'm guessing this has something to do with the fact that you still need a BNet account to actually play SC2 at a PCBang, while LoL and BW anyone can jump in and start playing. I would imagine more SC2 players simply play the game at home.
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Leave the memories alone
In addition, couldn't see much regarding the treatment of foreigners in a potential SC2 OSL. I hope KESPA won't make them have to jump through too many hoops so that they are able to compete fairly, especially since it sounds current BW players will be able to slide without much issue into future GSL's. Still, not a lot of groundbreaking information from this meeting, though given Kespa's insularity this is a big step for them.
Another issue to deal with will be the running of future editions of PL. If the current BW pros are going to be competing in GSL's and other international tournaments as it is currently assumed, I wonder how viable it is going to be to run a SC2 PL the same way the current BW PL is run, with many of the players potentially flying to DH, MLG, IPL, et. al. No matter how much you talk to other organizers, I just don't think they'll be able to come to arrangements that make everyone happy (players get to travel over the world and compete for large gobs of money and a professional team league with a tight schedule is played on time).
Still plenty exciting times though, hope the positive outweighs the negative.
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On May 03 2012 08:55 teamsolid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 08:03 hydrogg wrote:On May 03 2012 07:12 howLiN wrote:
Are people seriously so mad that they're calling LoL a worthier successor to BW than SC2? That doesn't even make any sense lol. Both of those games are popular in Korea (LOL at 10% and BW at 5% currently in PCBang ratings) whereas SC2 isn't (>1%). LOL is even stronger than BW arguably since it is also popular outside of Korea. To be fair... I'm guessing this has something to do with the fact that you still need a BNet account to actually play SC2 at a PCBang, while LoL and BW anyone can jump in and start playing. I would imagine more SC2 players simply play the game at home.
Not only is it free to play LoL, PCBang version has all champions unlocked, which is huge in a game where you pay to play champions not on the free rotation.
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the best news for starcraft 2
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On May 03 2012 08:55 teamsolid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 08:03 hydrogg wrote:On May 03 2012 07:12 howLiN wrote:
Are people seriously so mad that they're calling LoL a worthier successor to BW than SC2? That doesn't even make any sense lol. Both of those games are popular in Korea (LOL at 10% and BW at 5% currently in PCBang ratings) whereas SC2 isn't (>1%). LOL is even stronger than BW arguably since it is also popular outside of Korea. To be fair... I'm guessing this has something to do with the fact that you still need a BNet account to actually play SC2 at a PCBang, while LoL and BW anyone can jump in and start playing. I would imagine more SC2 players simply play the game at home.
PC cafes in the USA have SC2 accounts for people to use. It should be the same in Korea.
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On May 03 2012 06:21 Klonere wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 05:43 Bareleon wrote:On May 03 2012 05:30 Klonere wrote:On May 03 2012 05:27 blahblahblahwhatever wrote:On May 03 2012 05:15 Klonere wrote:On May 03 2012 04:52 tedster wrote:On May 02 2012 23:57 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 02 2012 23:44 maybenexttime wrote:On May 02 2012 23:04 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 02 2012 22:55 GeLaar wrote:
I can't believe Blizzard pulled this off. I can't believe the Korean e-sports organisations let themselves get into a situation where Blizzard has them by the balls.
OGN and Kespa are taking some pretty big risks:
1. They might alienate their Korean fans - there is only one game that every Korean grew up knowing, and they're turing their backs on it and saying "Hey, let's have millions of people switch to this other game!". I'm curious to see if this will work, and if it does, how many times it will work (because they will have to do it again for the two "expansions", and for SC3, and so on.)
2. Since SC2 doesn't have LAN, these organisations are now completely at Blizzard's mercy. Blizzard now has the power to pull the plug on Proleague or any other event, without having to go to the Korean courts. With Brood War, the situation was different. After Blizzard backed out of the lawsuit, it was theirs to do whatever they wanted with it. That's a pretty big thing they gave away. I hope for their sake that the relationship doesn't sour, and that Blizzard doesn't decide to change the deal.
Overall, it's clear to me why Kespa and OGN did it. It's right there in the statement: international exposure. They are likely to get it, but the risks they are taking seem immense to me. It is a huge change, and if handled correctly and professionally it will be a huge step forward. I understand your concerns completely, I can see how if it was to go sour it would destroy an entire industry that's been over 10 years in the making. One thing that's clear for me is that if there are disputes amongst the united organisations it would no doubt be fixed without any underlying injustice. All of these organisations care about esports and, being a business, also care about money and the industry. I'm sure that Blizzard (as well as the other parties involved) won't impose such a dictatorial attitude due to the fact that success for ALL of the organisations means success for each of them, if they hurt their partners then in turn they hurt themselves. No, blizzard does not care about esport. Otherwise they wouldn't have tried to kill BW so badly. So far they have shown they're too incompetent to fix sc2, so I hope what they did will bite them in the ass. They're becoming the new EA, screw them... That's an interesting opinion. It has left me wondering, If they didn't care about esports why would they take part in this union? Surely if esports promotes their game, then esports is something worth investing time and resources into since it makes them more money, right? So that means they must care about esports because of their investments. They are trying to sell a new game. They don't really care about games they aren't making money from any more and aren't really concerned with the overall health and quality of esports, just New Blizzard Products. Blizzard realize that they failed miserable in the Korean launch of Starcraft II (along with squandering links to the most incredible esports scene ever) and are looking at LoL making WoW type cash. They want a piece of the Korean pie and this is how they are doing it, putting SC2 on the front and center of the biggest gaming broadcaster in SK, mainly via legal muscle rather than any concern about ESPORTS/. Can we start some kind of online petition?? Online petitions involving the least important, least numerous component of the BW community, sounds like a fantastic idea! No this isn't going to be changed by anything, my BW heart is cold and dead since Kpop killed MBC. Blizzard can do what they like with SC2, I am beginning to get to the point where I truly think its going to be a dead game in a years time. Like BW? Trust me, sc2 will last generations longer than BW. Ok so we have SC2 pretty much dead on arrival in Korea, the scene there has easily the most talented, hard-working players, putting in hours to become the best but an extremely low amount of Korean fans cheering them on. It doesn't get played in PC Bangs, due to ridiculous Bnet account requirements, plus you can play LoL with your friends with ALL THE HERO'S UNLOCKED!. So the main place where Korean gamers congregate and discuss games has little to no SC2 in it. GOM heavily relys on subs from the foreign community to keep going, with pathetic studio attendances and their incredible production skills making up for small audiences at finals. Korean teams have all been living on the edge, with some teams like Zenex needing their players to pay to stay in team-house rather than the other way around. IM and FXO are the only teams with stable sponsors. In the foreigner scene we have a growing movement of apathy towards the trend of Korean domination in tournaments. GOM has the Code S seed to get foreigner subs for GSL more than anything. Foreigner teams care more about being players having a following and being active on social media, which is fair enough seeing as they have a business to run which is more like a charity. Foreigner fans argue more about casters than the actual game. LoL is getting huge in the West as well, pulling gigantic numbers. The game itself has some serious design issues, both in gameplay and UI. Without radical intervention by Blizzard I don't see it being around for very long.
Jesus Christ, Klonere I want to say I agree with all of your posts, I have nothing more to add.
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On May 03 2012 11:46 hydrogg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 08:55 teamsolid wrote:On May 03 2012 08:03 hydrogg wrote:On May 03 2012 07:12 howLiN wrote:
Are people seriously so mad that they're calling LoL a worthier successor to BW than SC2? That doesn't even make any sense lol. Both of those games are popular in Korea (LOL at 10% and BW at 5% currently in PCBang ratings) whereas SC2 isn't (>1%). LOL is even stronger than BW arguably since it is also popular outside of Korea. To be fair... I'm guessing this has something to do with the fact that you still need a BNet account to actually play SC2 at a PCBang, while LoL and BW anyone can jump in and start playing. I would imagine more SC2 players simply play the game at home. PC cafes in the USA have SC2 accounts for people to use. It should be the same in Korea.
I don't think that's a given fact, nor do I believe that every PC cafe in the U.S. does that. So there certainly is some truth to how other games are more accessible and easier to play, thus being more prominent in Korean PC bangs. I will be going to Korea in 10 days for the first time and I am not expecting to be able to play SC2 in a PC bang there. I guess I will see how it will be.
As for these latest developments: A lot of these things were already rumored about, but now it's been made official that BW pros along with the respective organizations will make the switch to SC2. And thus I hope the current illwill of various factions of the TL community toward each other will also come to an end.
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EPT
