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The biggest point that should be made is that BW differs from SC2 in that the games unfold in a different manner.
There are rarely any comebacks in SC2 simply because of the potency of the units and because of the game's design.
I can't see it being too popular amongst Koreans because it is oriented too much around coin-flippy outcomes and battles.
You can get mad all you want, but the fact remains unless SC2 is designed differently, it is NOT going to be as successful as BW is/was in Korea.
I do play both games and the skill difference required to play is tremendous. SC2 is more punishing, with units designed to end games or surprise opponents quickly.
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Bye bye forever Dragoons, Reavers, Defilers, Vultures T_T
Edit: don't interpret this as rage, I'm happy that we will see everyone in a new game ^^
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More BW elitist crying, talking trash about sc2. Nothing new here.
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Also on the BW vs SC2 argument, the fact that casters are so important to even the hardcore in the scene's (many members here on TL) enjoyment of the game shows that SC2 really lacks opportunities for players to be the focal point, using their gameplay to market themselves rather than going on podcasts, making stupid references to star wars or being a prodigious twitter user.
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sc2 vs bw is not needed but sc2 does deserve its criticisms when compared to bw, sc2 at the moment simply isn't as good as bw, even bw that was 10 years ago. imo because of unit/spell and gameplay design, it just doesn't flow as good as bw. its apparent when watching the games- 1 huge battle vs skirmishes in a large area, game cannot evolve while "deathball" is supported by spells and units composed of countering each other, forcing players to fall back until they have something to deal with what opponent has and its a race for composition. sc2 needs to be criticized and analyzed so it can be better.
i hope hots is a huge improvement but i have little hope from what i've seen so far, i really want sc2 to improve so it can survive another decade after lotv.
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On May 03 2012 03:57 Bareleon wrote:
Oh hey guess what I found out about SC2.......it is not BW!!!!!! Is this game called SC2 BW? or BW2? Nope! Different game is different!!! No way!!!!
If you cannot accept it, and the changes it has, then stick to BW, easy as that.
And if people finds it so easy, try to become a pro at it or at least get to Master league in two months if you claim it is sooo easy.
What I learned a while ago: not everyone can accept change or has an easy time adapting to a change.
Anyone above D+ can get into masters with a little effort. Fact is, outside of the very top pros the game actually IS quite "easy" compared to BW. This is simply the way Blizzard designed SC2: easy to play, hard to master.
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On May 03 2012 04:18 X10A wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 03:57 Bareleon wrote:
Oh hey guess what I found out about SC2.......it is not BW!!!!!! Is this game called SC2 BW? or BW2? Nope! Different game is different!!! No way!!!!
If you cannot accept it, and the changes it has, then stick to BW, easy as that.
And if people finds it so easy, try to become a pro at it or at least get to Master league in two months if you claim it is sooo easy.
What I learned a while ago: not everyone can accept change or has an easy time adapting to a change. Of course Star 2 isn't Brood War, its a game that carries the same name, with similar units, that look prettier. Most of us will stick to BW, thanks for that. Master league in two months? We're mostly complete scrubs at BW, at Star2 I ended up getting high plat/diamond when I played like a year ago Of course we can't accept change, BW is, and always will be, what I looked forward too after a long day at school, my dad would always watch with me and we'd play some games together after the matches were done. Brood War is something I've played off and on, but have followed for ages. Brood War isn't just a hobby, nor is it just "another game," It's been the last decade of my life. And I have last thing to say. + Show Spoiler +Fuck eSports or ESPORT or esport. There wouldnt' be an "Esports" without Brood War, be thankful. There wouldn't be all of these sponserships or tournaments or what not. Be greatful.
But you said its easy, so push for GM!! Or do you not win enough, but you said the game is easy, hmmm....
Again, SC2 is not SC1, get over it. Play your BW, I will play my SC2. And tons of people stopped playing BW, lol by "most of us" what is that like 15 people, maybe 20?
Did you ever think its a preference of what game everyone likes and wants to play with and stick with? thought so.
I cannot wait till everyone switches to SC2 in the pro scene!!! it will be soooo nice!!!!
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On May 02 2012 23:57 SC_Ghost wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 23:44 maybenexttime wrote:On May 02 2012 23:04 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 02 2012 22:55 GeLaar wrote:
I can't believe Blizzard pulled this off. I can't believe the Korean e-sports organisations let themselves get into a situation where Blizzard has them by the balls.
OGN and Kespa are taking some pretty big risks:
1. They might alienate their Korean fans - there is only one game that every Korean grew up knowing, and they're turing their backs on it and saying "Hey, let's have millions of people switch to this other game!". I'm curious to see if this will work, and if it does, how many times it will work (because they will have to do it again for the two "expansions", and for SC3, and so on.)
2. Since SC2 doesn't have LAN, these organisations are now completely at Blizzard's mercy. Blizzard now has the power to pull the plug on Proleague or any other event, without having to go to the Korean courts. With Brood War, the situation was different. After Blizzard backed out of the lawsuit, it was theirs to do whatever they wanted with it. That's a pretty big thing they gave away. I hope for their sake that the relationship doesn't sour, and that Blizzard doesn't decide to change the deal.
Overall, it's clear to me why Kespa and OGN did it. It's right there in the statement: international exposure. They are likely to get it, but the risks they are taking seem immense to me. It is a huge change, and if handled correctly and professionally it will be a huge step forward. I understand your concerns completely, I can see how if it was to go sour it would destroy an entire industry that's been over 10 years in the making. One thing that's clear for me is that if there are disputes amongst the united organisations it would no doubt be fixed without any underlying injustice. All of these organisations care about esports and, being a business, also care about money and the industry. I'm sure that Blizzard (as well as the other parties involved) won't impose such a dictatorial attitude due to the fact that success for ALL of the organisations means success for each of them, if they hurt their partners then in turn they hurt themselves. No, blizzard does not care about esport. Otherwise they wouldn't have tried to kill BW so badly. So far they have shown they're too incompetent to fix sc2, so I hope what they did will bite them in the ass. They're becoming the new EA, screw them... That's an interesting opinion. It has left me wondering, If they didn't care about esports why would they take part in this union? Surely if esports promotes their game, then esports is something worth investing time and resources into since it makes them more money, right? So that means they must care about esports because of their investments.
They are trying to sell a new game. They don't really care about games they aren't making money from any more and aren't really concerned with the overall health and quality of esports, just New Blizzard Products.
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having played BW at c level, sc2 is a lot harder (to win). sure, macro is easy, but you need to micro hard and reaction time is more critical since the game is faster. macro skills cannot transfer over back to BW. micro isnt the same because movement is not the same. technical skills are hard to transfer from game to game. so you can be good at one game but suck in the other. play sc2 for a while. ladder is different than it was when it was released. high diamond back then is probably platinum or less... haha. all games have its balance issues, but sc2 is a quality game that is worth the money. just think, sc2 has 10x the amount of attention bw had from around the world. of course there will be more criticism compared to bw. even bw had its criticism, but to a lesser extent because the community was so confined.
besides, the game is always changing and the developers are more than willing to adjust. with the amount of promotion sc2 is getting, everything will be laid out for the developers to see with more competitive play. with 2 expansions left and the game being fully endorsed by bw progamers, it'll only be a matter of time until sc2 becomes a game bw elitists will respect.
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Canada1530 Posts
On May 03 2012 03:26 Sum41 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 03:11 howLiN wrote:So, when are we gonna get the interviews? On May 03 2012 02:49 Sum41 wrote:On May 03 2012 01:45 BlueFlames wrote:On May 03 2012 00:29 Sum41 wrote:On May 03 2012 00:08 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 02 2012 23:56 Sum41 wrote:this is a shit, they change broodwar for a inferior game just because of the $$, don't matter what you say, starcraft broodwar is much better. and Sc2 will never be as good as BW, won't last for so long, and as well as BW did This are good games, not like the boring stuff from Sc2!, watch it and learn what's really awesome. nothing in Sc2 will be compared to the feeling that bring this game, or The Jangbi vs Fantasy finals, Jaedong vs Stork in The OSL Ever Finals, etc. While i agree with the elitism of BW, it being a harder or more complex game and it being a better candidate for esports, in terms of technology it is simply outdated. Unfortunately the game uses technology that is 15 years old. When technology ages someone else develops a new version to replace it. Again, unfortunately, that is the case here: A large portion of why BW is being made redundant is because the technology is so outdated. the only thing that the technology has done is give better graphic to Sc2, in all the other aspects BW is superior. and play a game just for the graphics is like watch a porn movie for the argument -_-; that's why it's reatarded to kill BW, for a dumb game like SC2 Bad comparison. You could compare old graphics with porn, but you would have to compare VHS vs Blueray or something. Also i personally dont agree that BW is the better game. Thats just my opinion though. On topic. I really hope that the speculations about the old bw players and the sc2 players beeing able to participate in any league comes true. I want to see the best players to compete in all tournaments they chose to do so. I dont want to see a division or something even more stupid. For me its a good sign that all the parties seem to be talking and that Kespa seems to try a global approach with SC2. Now all i need is LAN Blizzard. Your stupid excuses fool noone! if you think that SC broodwar isn't a better game, then you don't know anything about broodwar. it's much more strategic, it's more complex, requires more skill. i think that you have never played Broodwar, people that hasn't played it, or don't know too much about it, doesn't know how deep the gameplay is. And SC2 has been made to casual players, you don't need great skill to play it at a decent level, or lot of knowledge to be good I know you're mad, but you can stop it now. We're not getting anything from your argument other than you shitting on SC2. it's not shitting, what i say are just facts '
No. You are shitting. "SC2 is dumb" is not a fact. Please smarten up before you troll this thread up.
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Very cool cant wait to see what is too come for E-sports
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YOU GUYS KEEP FIGHTING ABOUT WICH GAME IS BETTER AND MORE SKILLBASED. BW fans, think about this, SC2 is game based on sc1, it is not the sam game, but they have similar concept and they both needs skill, even if you say BW needs more skill. While you keep fighting one of the most noskill bases multiplayergame, LOL (God how i hate that game), is becominge bigger than BW and sc2 together. PLease stop fighting. BW fans please support SC2 as an esport, BW is behind, you had you 13 years of glory, sry but it needs to finish. We Starcraft fans need to stick together and spread the joyful news about Starcrat and make it again biggest esport name outthere.
THIS IS STARCRAFT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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They are trying to sell a new game. They don't really care about games they aren't making money from any more and aren't really concerned with the overall health and quality of esports, just New Blizzard Products.
"They are trying to sell a new game"......as opposed to not trying to sell their product?
"They don't really care about games they aren't making money from any more".....because they haven't patched any of their games....o wait.
"and aren't really concerned with the overall health and quality of esports"......because they aren't trying to work to an agreement with ogn/kespa/gom?
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On May 03 2012 05:04 TotoroHren wrote:
YOU GUYS KEEP FIGHTING ABOUT WICH GAME IS BETTER AND MORE SKILLBASED. BW fans, think about this, SC2 is game based on sc1, it is not the sam game, but they have similar concept and they both needs skill, even if you say BW needs more skill. While you keep fighting one of the most noskill bases multiplayergame, LOL (God how i hate that game), is becominge bigger than BW and sc2 together. PLease stop fighting. BW fans please support SC2 as an esport, BW is behind, you had you 13 years of glory, sry but it needs to finish. We Starcraft fans need to stick together and spread the joyful news about Starcrat and make it again biggest esport name outthere.
THIS IS STARCRAFT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You support the games you enjoy to play/watch. Would you support LoL if Wii Sports would be the new hot thing, just "for the good of esports"?
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On May 03 2012 04:52 tedster wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 23:57 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 02 2012 23:44 maybenexttime wrote:On May 02 2012 23:04 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 02 2012 22:55 GeLaar wrote:
I can't believe Blizzard pulled this off. I can't believe the Korean e-sports organisations let themselves get into a situation where Blizzard has them by the balls.
OGN and Kespa are taking some pretty big risks:
1. They might alienate their Korean fans - there is only one game that every Korean grew up knowing, and they're turing their backs on it and saying "Hey, let's have millions of people switch to this other game!". I'm curious to see if this will work, and if it does, how many times it will work (because they will have to do it again for the two "expansions", and for SC3, and so on.)
2. Since SC2 doesn't have LAN, these organisations are now completely at Blizzard's mercy. Blizzard now has the power to pull the plug on Proleague or any other event, without having to go to the Korean courts. With Brood War, the situation was different. After Blizzard backed out of the lawsuit, it was theirs to do whatever they wanted with it. That's a pretty big thing they gave away. I hope for their sake that the relationship doesn't sour, and that Blizzard doesn't decide to change the deal.
Overall, it's clear to me why Kespa and OGN did it. It's right there in the statement: international exposure. They are likely to get it, but the risks they are taking seem immense to me. It is a huge change, and if handled correctly and professionally it will be a huge step forward. I understand your concerns completely, I can see how if it was to go sour it would destroy an entire industry that's been over 10 years in the making. One thing that's clear for me is that if there are disputes amongst the united organisations it would no doubt be fixed without any underlying injustice. All of these organisations care about esports and, being a business, also care about money and the industry. I'm sure that Blizzard (as well as the other parties involved) won't impose such a dictatorial attitude due to the fact that success for ALL of the organisations means success for each of them, if they hurt their partners then in turn they hurt themselves. No, blizzard does not care about esport. Otherwise they wouldn't have tried to kill BW so badly. So far they have shown they're too incompetent to fix sc2, so I hope what they did will bite them in the ass. They're becoming the new EA, screw them... That's an interesting opinion. It has left me wondering, If they didn't care about esports why would they take part in this union? Surely if esports promotes their game, then esports is something worth investing time and resources into since it makes them more money, right? So that means they must care about esports because of their investments. They are trying to sell a new game. They don't really care about games they aren't making money from any more and aren't really concerned with the overall health and quality of esports, just New Blizzard Products.
Blizzard realize that they failed miserable in the Korean launch of Starcraft II (along with squandering links to the most incredible esports scene ever) and are looking at LoL making WoW type cash. They want a piece of the Korean pie and this is how they are doing it, putting SC2 on the front and center of the biggest gaming broadcaster in SK, mainly via legal muscle rather than any concern about ESPORTS/.
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On May 03 2012 05:08 gn0m wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 05:04 TotoroHren wrote:
YOU GUYS KEEP FIGHTING ABOUT WICH GAME IS BETTER AND MORE SKILLBASED. BW fans, think about this, SC2 is game based on sc1, it is not the sam game, but they have similar concept and they both needs skill, even if you say BW needs more skill. While you keep fighting one of the most noskill bases multiplayergame, LOL (God how i hate that game), is becominge bigger than BW and sc2 together. PLease stop fighting. BW fans please support SC2 as an esport, BW is behind, you had you 13 years of glory, sry but it needs to finish. We Starcraft fans need to stick together and spread the joyful news about Starcrat and make it again biggest esport name outthere.
THIS IS STARCRAFT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You support the games you enjoy to play/watch. Would you support LoL if Wii Sports would be the new hot thing, just "for the good of esports"?
As an SC2 fan who watched SC1 as well, I can completely understand why BW fans do not want to support or watch SC2. The games, with some small exceptions are vastly different.
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This is no surprise from Blizzard. But the korean officials agreeing to this unanimously...ugh kill me. The only hope now is the players and the fans rally and get some sort of petition going to at least keep BW separated from SC2. Also, an online petition should be created on the BW forum so foreigners can contribute.
I don't even care about my entertaintment. I feel so sorry for the players, they don't deserve this bullshit. Why don't Blizzard and the korean officials just barge into their practice houses and take a humongous liquid shit on the players' faces? It would be less disrespectful than this garbage.
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On May 03 2012 05:04 TotoroHren wrote:
YOU GUYS KEEP FIGHTING ABOUT WICH GAME IS BETTER AND MORE SKILLBASED. BW fans, think about this, SC2 is game based on sc1, it is not the sam game, but they have similar concept and they both needs skill, even if you say BW needs more skill. While you keep fighting one of the most noskill bases multiplayergame, LOL (God how i hate that game), is becominge bigger than BW and sc2 together. PLease stop fighting. BW fans please support SC2 as an esport, BW is behind, you had you 13 years of glory, sry but it needs to finish. We Starcraft fans need to stick together and spread the joyful news about Starcrat and make it again biggest esport name outthere.
THIS IS STARCRAFT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's only called StarCraft, STX coach put it best. To many of us SC2 is not different from LoL. At this point I don't expect blizzard to fix the game. They're like the Polish government, they only talk and don't do anything of substance.
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On May 03 2012 05:15 Klonere wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 04:52 tedster wrote:On May 02 2012 23:57 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 02 2012 23:44 maybenexttime wrote:On May 02 2012 23:04 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 02 2012 22:55 GeLaar wrote:
I can't believe Blizzard pulled this off. I can't believe the Korean e-sports organisations let themselves get into a situation where Blizzard has them by the balls.
OGN and Kespa are taking some pretty big risks:
1. They might alienate their Korean fans - there is only one game that every Korean grew up knowing, and they're turing their backs on it and saying "Hey, let's have millions of people switch to this other game!". I'm curious to see if this will work, and if it does, how many times it will work (because they will have to do it again for the two "expansions", and for SC3, and so on.)
2. Since SC2 doesn't have LAN, these organisations are now completely at Blizzard's mercy. Blizzard now has the power to pull the plug on Proleague or any other event, without having to go to the Korean courts. With Brood War, the situation was different. After Blizzard backed out of the lawsuit, it was theirs to do whatever they wanted with it. That's a pretty big thing they gave away. I hope for their sake that the relationship doesn't sour, and that Blizzard doesn't decide to change the deal.
Overall, it's clear to me why Kespa and OGN did it. It's right there in the statement: international exposure. They are likely to get it, but the risks they are taking seem immense to me. It is a huge change, and if handled correctly and professionally it will be a huge step forward. I understand your concerns completely, I can see how if it was to go sour it would destroy an entire industry that's been over 10 years in the making. One thing that's clear for me is that if there are disputes amongst the united organisations it would no doubt be fixed without any underlying injustice. All of these organisations care about esports and, being a business, also care about money and the industry. I'm sure that Blizzard (as well as the other parties involved) won't impose such a dictatorial attitude due to the fact that success for ALL of the organisations means success for each of them, if they hurt their partners then in turn they hurt themselves. No, blizzard does not care about esport. Otherwise they wouldn't have tried to kill BW so badly. So far they have shown they're too incompetent to fix sc2, so I hope what they did will bite them in the ass. They're becoming the new EA, screw them... That's an interesting opinion. It has left me wondering, If they didn't care about esports why would they take part in this union? Surely if esports promotes their game, then esports is something worth investing time and resources into since it makes them more money, right? So that means they must care about esports because of their investments. They are trying to sell a new game. They don't really care about games they aren't making money from any more and aren't really concerned with the overall health and quality of esports, just New Blizzard Products. Blizzard realize that they failed miserable in the Korean launch of Starcraft II (along with squandering links to the most incredible esports scene ever) and are looking at LoL making WoW type cash. They want a piece of the Korean pie and this is how they are doing it, putting SC2 on the front and center of the biggest gaming broadcaster in SK, mainly via legal muscle rather than any concern about ESPORTS/.
Can we start some kind of online petition??
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EPT
