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The more the merrier! SC2 take over
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Excited to say the least.
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I would love to see like a Championship between Proleague and GSTL like Baseball World Series or whatever
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On May 03 2012 00:15 TrainSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 00:13 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 03 2012 00:04 NexUmbra wrote:On May 02 2012 23:58 TrainSamurai wrote:On May 02 2012 22:48 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 02 2012 22:11 fabiano wrote:On May 02 2012 18:23 SC_Ghost wrote:
I actually think Kespa still have too much of a Korean-centric focus going forward with SC2. When they were asked about foreign events, Kespa responded with "The main reason we switched to SC II was to put Korea forth as the motherland of esports." I can't see foreigners at Starleague within the next 2 years at least, and that's a huge push that I doubt it will ever happen, whereas I can see OGN conforming with GOMs approach with a more inviting league to foreigners. Why do foreigners want everything so easy for them? I fucking hate it. If they want to be good enough to play in SPL, it's their own job to go out there and make themselves known as fucking good players. If they are good I doubt any korean SPL team wouldn't hire them. This is fucking bullshit. Why should korean leagues be more inviting to foreigners? They should be welcoming the best players in the world, and only them. If it happens that all the best players in the world are koreans, too bad for foreigners. Happens that we are in a foreigner community and many people in it are so narrow minded that they feel "our" players should deserve a place in whatever korean league is created just because they are foreigners. If you want to play in the best tournament, you have to be the best, just because you are white (or black, or whatever other race) doesn't give you the right to claim a place in such leagues. "But mommy SPL happens in Korea, I can't play on same foot as the koreans, that's unfair!1!!". Well, fuck you. If you want to play in Korean leagues, go fucking live in Korea. "But I can't, too expensive, cultures too different, language barrier!1!!", fuck you again, the leagues happen in Korea, deal with it. You can't? Too bad, no SPL/OSL for you. The passport to korean leagues is your own fucking skills, not the fucking race you are. Perhaps you've interpreted my post in a way I didn't attempt it to be perceived, I take full responsibility for that and I hope you accept my apology. But if we look at every Professional Gaming Competition that's considered of substantial, professional Merit (Such as MLG, IPL, GSL, DH, etc.) they are all inviting a global competition: MLG and IPL invites European and Asian players as well as their 'native' American players; DH does the same, and GSL too. It's established that way so that the global competitive scene grows, not each individual league/nation. It promotes growth across the board, which can only be a good thing. I have no quarrels with Korea being the home of the best skilled players, it promotes Korean skill-level and makes an impression when a foreigner reaches that level, and like you said: the good enough foreigners will make their own way there. But there's a difference between being inviting of Global Professional Gaming and positioning yourself above that, which (and I don't mean to offend anybody, I'm sorry if I do) I feel is the stance Kespa looks as though they have taken. They have been very critical of themselves with announcing their position to not be undermining of the global competitive scene, but they haven't positioned a stance with embracing it either; which just leaves me personally in an awkward place, thinking: Are they embracing Global Competition, or just acknowledging that it exists? Either outcome leads to a very different growth of e-sports, both of which the community can perceive to have a negative impact, but which is the lesser of two evils? EDIT: Just to add: I didn't mean the Korean league need to be inviting of foreigners, of course the foreigners have to earn their place, but I am afraid of the 'new' Korean leagues not embracing the Global scene. I don't want people to confuse Global and Foreign, as a global scene does and should involve the Korean scene. How dare Kespa treat foriegners like koreans and require them to EARN a pro gaming licence. Exactly, the GOM process to foreigners is cool and all but imagine if you are a Korean and some white guy gets an invitation to Code A and then proceeds to get utterly destroyed in the first round, it could have been one of the Code B Closet Gosus who had that spot! Another intriguing opinion, but the fact is (especially with the GOM process) that 'white guy' has actually earned his place there by performing against Code A Korean players in other notable global events. The foreign individuals have made a name for themselves competing against Code A players, doesn't that make them eligible to at least compete to be in Code A? Yes but the problem is that you're giving foreigners preferrential treatment. No korean would get those sweet bonuses, that is why it is a disgrace; not the pro players, but the league.
Would you also suggest that in order to practicipate in a foreign tournemant, a Korean should live in the county of the tournemant for a month+?
That's just to even things up you know.
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The thought that something like DRG vs Flash and MKP vs Jaedong is possible in SC2 just blows my mind.
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WHen the hell are interviews come??
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On May 03 2012 00:29 Sum41 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 00:08 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 02 2012 23:56 Sum41 wrote:this is a shit, they change broodwar for a inferior game just because of the $$, don't matter what you say, starcraft broodwar is much better. and Sc2 will never be as good as BW, won't last for so long, and as well as BW did This are good games, not like the boring stuff from Sc2!, watch it and learn what's really awesome. nothing in Sc2 will be compared to the feeling that bring this game, or The Jangbi vs Fantasy finals, Jaedong vs Stork in The OSL Ever Finals, etc. While i agree with the elitism of BW, it being a harder or more complex game and it being a better candidate for esports, in terms of technology it is simply outdated. Unfortunately the game uses technology that is 15 years old. When technology ages someone else develops a new version to replace it. Again, unfortunately, that is the case here: A large portion of why BW is being made redundant is because the technology is so outdated. the only thing that the technology has done is give better graphic to Sc2, in all the other aspects BW is superior. and play a game just for the graphics is like watch a porn movie for the argument -_-; that's why it's reatarded to kill BW, for a dumb game like SC2
Bad comparison. You could compare old graphics with porn, but you would have to compare VHS vs Blueray or something.
Also i personally dont agree that BW is the better game. Thats just my opinion though.
On topic. I really hope that the speculations about the old bw players and the sc2 players beeing able to participate in any league comes true. I want to see the best players to compete in all tournaments they chose to do so. I dont want to see a division or something even more stupid. For me its a good sign that all the parties seem to be talking and that Kespa seems to try a global approach with SC2.
Now all i need is LAN Blizzard. Your stupid excuses fool noone!
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On May 03 2012 01:29 RageBot wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 00:15 TrainSamurai wrote:On May 03 2012 00:13 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 03 2012 00:04 NexUmbra wrote:On May 02 2012 23:58 TrainSamurai wrote:On May 02 2012 22:48 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 02 2012 22:11 fabiano wrote:On May 02 2012 18:23 SC_Ghost wrote:
I actually think Kespa still have too much of a Korean-centric focus going forward with SC2. When they were asked about foreign events, Kespa responded with "The main reason we switched to SC II was to put Korea forth as the motherland of esports." I can't see foreigners at Starleague within the next 2 years at least, and that's a huge push that I doubt it will ever happen, whereas I can see OGN conforming with GOMs approach with a more inviting league to foreigners. Why do foreigners want everything so easy for them? I fucking hate it. If they want to be good enough to play in SPL, it's their own job to go out there and make themselves known as fucking good players. If they are good I doubt any korean SPL team wouldn't hire them. This is fucking bullshit. Why should korean leagues be more inviting to foreigners? They should be welcoming the best players in the world, and only them. If it happens that all the best players in the world are koreans, too bad for foreigners. Happens that we are in a foreigner community and many people in it are so narrow minded that they feel "our" players should deserve a place in whatever korean league is created just because they are foreigners. If you want to play in the best tournament, you have to be the best, just because you are white (or black, or whatever other race) doesn't give you the right to claim a place in such leagues. "But mommy SPL happens in Korea, I can't play on same foot as the koreans, that's unfair!1!!". Well, fuck you. If you want to play in Korean leagues, go fucking live in Korea. "But I can't, too expensive, cultures too different, language barrier!1!!", fuck you again, the leagues happen in Korea, deal with it. You can't? Too bad, no SPL/OSL for you. The passport to korean leagues is your own fucking skills, not the fucking race you are. Perhaps you've interpreted my post in a way I didn't attempt it to be perceived, I take full responsibility for that and I hope you accept my apology. But if we look at every Professional Gaming Competition that's considered of substantial, professional Merit (Such as MLG, IPL, GSL, DH, etc.) they are all inviting a global competition: MLG and IPL invites European and Asian players as well as their 'native' American players; DH does the same, and GSL too. It's established that way so that the global competitive scene grows, not each individual league/nation. It promotes growth across the board, which can only be a good thing. I have no quarrels with Korea being the home of the best skilled players, it promotes Korean skill-level and makes an impression when a foreigner reaches that level, and like you said: the good enough foreigners will make their own way there. But there's a difference between being inviting of Global Professional Gaming and positioning yourself above that, which (and I don't mean to offend anybody, I'm sorry if I do) I feel is the stance Kespa looks as though they have taken. They have been very critical of themselves with announcing their position to not be undermining of the global competitive scene, but they haven't positioned a stance with embracing it either; which just leaves me personally in an awkward place, thinking: Are they embracing Global Competition, or just acknowledging that it exists? Either outcome leads to a very different growth of e-sports, both of which the community can perceive to have a negative impact, but which is the lesser of two evils? EDIT: Just to add: I didn't mean the Korean league need to be inviting of foreigners, of course the foreigners have to earn their place, but I am afraid of the 'new' Korean leagues not embracing the Global scene. I don't want people to confuse Global and Foreign, as a global scene does and should involve the Korean scene. How dare Kespa treat foriegners like koreans and require them to EARN a pro gaming licence. Exactly, the GOM process to foreigners is cool and all but imagine if you are a Korean and some white guy gets an invitation to Code A and then proceeds to get utterly destroyed in the first round, it could have been one of the Code B Closet Gosus who had that spot! Another intriguing opinion, but the fact is (especially with the GOM process) that 'white guy' has actually earned his place there by performing against Code A Korean players in other notable global events. The foreign individuals have made a name for themselves competing against Code A players, doesn't that make them eligible to at least compete to be in Code A? Yes but the problem is that you're giving foreigners preferrential treatment. No korean would get those sweet bonuses, that is why it is a disgrace; not the pro players, but the league. Would you also suggest that in order to practicipate in a foreign tournemant, a Korean should live in the county of the tournemant for a month+? That's just to even things up you know.
The difference is that the highest level of play is with Koreans, not foreigners.
The problem is not in accomodating foreigners, but accomodating undeserving players. KeSPA doesn't run invitational tournaments, but that does not mean non-Koreans are banned; they just have to go thru the same selection process as everybody else. It just happens that in the BW era, no foreigner was good enough.
What people also forget is that Courage was not the only way to get in.
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this is like the end of the samurai era, transitioning to gunpowder era.
who shall be the last samurai? :D (BW till the end)
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On May 03 2012 01:50 VManOfMana wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 01:29 RageBot wrote:On May 03 2012 00:15 TrainSamurai wrote:On May 03 2012 00:13 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 03 2012 00:04 NexUmbra wrote:On May 02 2012 23:58 TrainSamurai wrote:On May 02 2012 22:48 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 02 2012 22:11 fabiano wrote:On May 02 2012 18:23 SC_Ghost wrote:
I actually think Kespa still have too much of a Korean-centric focus going forward with SC2. When they were asked about foreign events, Kespa responded with "The main reason we switched to SC II was to put Korea forth as the motherland of esports." I can't see foreigners at Starleague within the next 2 years at least, and that's a huge push that I doubt it will ever happen, whereas I can see OGN conforming with GOMs approach with a more inviting league to foreigners. Why do foreigners want everything so easy for them? I fucking hate it. If they want to be good enough to play in SPL, it's their own job to go out there and make themselves known as fucking good players. If they are good I doubt any korean SPL team wouldn't hire them. This is fucking bullshit. Why should korean leagues be more inviting to foreigners? They should be welcoming the best players in the world, and only them. If it happens that all the best players in the world are koreans, too bad for foreigners. Happens that we are in a foreigner community and many people in it are so narrow minded that they feel "our" players should deserve a place in whatever korean league is created just because they are foreigners. If you want to play in the best tournament, you have to be the best, just because you are white (or black, or whatever other race) doesn't give you the right to claim a place in such leagues. "But mommy SPL happens in Korea, I can't play on same foot as the koreans, that's unfair!1!!". Well, fuck you. If you want to play in Korean leagues, go fucking live in Korea. "But I can't, too expensive, cultures too different, language barrier!1!!", fuck you again, the leagues happen in Korea, deal with it. You can't? Too bad, no SPL/OSL for you. The passport to korean leagues is your own fucking skills, not the fucking race you are. Perhaps you've interpreted my post in a way I didn't attempt it to be perceived, I take full responsibility for that and I hope you accept my apology. But if we look at every Professional Gaming Competition that's considered of substantial, professional Merit (Such as MLG, IPL, GSL, DH, etc.) they are all inviting a global competition: MLG and IPL invites European and Asian players as well as their 'native' American players; DH does the same, and GSL too. It's established that way so that the global competitive scene grows, not each individual league/nation. It promotes growth across the board, which can only be a good thing. I have no quarrels with Korea being the home of the best skilled players, it promotes Korean skill-level and makes an impression when a foreigner reaches that level, and like you said: the good enough foreigners will make their own way there. But there's a difference between being inviting of Global Professional Gaming and positioning yourself above that, which (and I don't mean to offend anybody, I'm sorry if I do) I feel is the stance Kespa looks as though they have taken. They have been very critical of themselves with announcing their position to not be undermining of the global competitive scene, but they haven't positioned a stance with embracing it either; which just leaves me personally in an awkward place, thinking: Are they embracing Global Competition, or just acknowledging that it exists? Either outcome leads to a very different growth of e-sports, both of which the community can perceive to have a negative impact, but which is the lesser of two evils? EDIT: Just to add: I didn't mean the Korean league need to be inviting of foreigners, of course the foreigners have to earn their place, but I am afraid of the 'new' Korean leagues not embracing the Global scene. I don't want people to confuse Global and Foreign, as a global scene does and should involve the Korean scene. How dare Kespa treat foriegners like koreans and require them to EARN a pro gaming licence. Exactly, the GOM process to foreigners is cool and all but imagine if you are a Korean and some white guy gets an invitation to Code A and then proceeds to get utterly destroyed in the first round, it could have been one of the Code B Closet Gosus who had that spot! Another intriguing opinion, but the fact is (especially with the GOM process) that 'white guy' has actually earned his place there by performing against Code A Korean players in other notable global events. The foreign individuals have made a name for themselves competing against Code A players, doesn't that make them eligible to at least compete to be in Code A? Yes but the problem is that you're giving foreigners preferrential treatment. No korean would get those sweet bonuses, that is why it is a disgrace; not the pro players, but the league. Would you also suggest that in order to practicipate in a foreign tournemant, a Korean should live in the county of the tournemant for a month+? That's just to even things up you know. The difference is that the highest level of play is with Koreans, not foreigners. The problem is not in accomodating foreigners, but accomodating undeserving players. KeSPA doesn't run invitational tournaments, but that does not mean non-Koreans are banned; they just have to go thru the same selection process as everybody else; it just happens that in the BW era, no foreigner was good enough.
It also happened to be, that the foreign scene was so small, that it would not have made any sense to accomodate foreing players. The situation is very different with SC2. GSL profits from foreign players due to more viewers and more money. The same way foreign tournaments profit greatly from korean players due to more viewers and more money.
Now the reasons for why people want to see either players might be different (skill-level/ identification-figure), but every league today profits from having koreans and foreigners compete with each other. KESPA or the GSL might not need foreign viewers to be successfull, but why wouldn`t they try to get them? If the are lucky and a foreigner has an unexpected good run, even better for them. It costs them very little and it can profit them greatly.
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The time has come were I part ways with the Brood War scene. It was fun while it lasted. Thanks for the memories MBCGame and OnGameNet.
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I'm excited 
Okay now the thread can get back to anger and arguing and not other not fun things 
I hope KESPA holds out on any starcraft 2 until Blizzard adds LAN. They should have enough power to get that, right?
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All that matters is this merging of SCII and SC:BW organizations, sponsors, players and fans. Shit's gonna be BIG. Drooling even with nothing in my head. There's too much empty space for imagination for what could happen in the future.
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On May 03 2012 01:57 BlueFlames wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 01:50 VManOfMana wrote:On May 03 2012 01:29 RageBot wrote:On May 03 2012 00:15 TrainSamurai wrote:On May 03 2012 00:13 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 03 2012 00:04 NexUmbra wrote:On May 02 2012 23:58 TrainSamurai wrote:On May 02 2012 22:48 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 02 2012 22:11 fabiano wrote:On May 02 2012 18:23 SC_Ghost wrote:
I actually think Kespa still have too much of a Korean-centric focus going forward with SC2. When they were asked about foreign events, Kespa responded with "The main reason we switched to SC II was to put Korea forth as the motherland of esports." I can't see foreigners at Starleague within the next 2 years at least, and that's a huge push that I doubt it will ever happen, whereas I can see OGN conforming with GOMs approach with a more inviting league to foreigners. Why do foreigners want everything so easy for them? I fucking hate it. If they want to be good enough to play in SPL, it's their own job to go out there and make themselves known as fucking good players. If they are good I doubt any korean SPL team wouldn't hire them. This is fucking bullshit. Why should korean leagues be more inviting to foreigners? They should be welcoming the best players in the world, and only them. If it happens that all the best players in the world are koreans, too bad for foreigners. Happens that we are in a foreigner community and many people in it are so narrow minded that they feel "our" players should deserve a place in whatever korean league is created just because they are foreigners. If you want to play in the best tournament, you have to be the best, just because you are white (or black, or whatever other race) doesn't give you the right to claim a place in such leagues. "But mommy SPL happens in Korea, I can't play on same foot as the koreans, that's unfair!1!!". Well, fuck you. If you want to play in Korean leagues, go fucking live in Korea. "But I can't, too expensive, cultures too different, language barrier!1!!", fuck you again, the leagues happen in Korea, deal with it. You can't? Too bad, no SPL/OSL for you. The passport to korean leagues is your own fucking skills, not the fucking race you are. Perhaps you've interpreted my post in a way I didn't attempt it to be perceived, I take full responsibility for that and I hope you accept my apology. But if we look at every Professional Gaming Competition that's considered of substantial, professional Merit (Such as MLG, IPL, GSL, DH, etc.) they are all inviting a global competition: MLG and IPL invites European and Asian players as well as their 'native' American players; DH does the same, and GSL too. It's established that way so that the global competitive scene grows, not each individual league/nation. It promotes growth across the board, which can only be a good thing. I have no quarrels with Korea being the home of the best skilled players, it promotes Korean skill-level and makes an impression when a foreigner reaches that level, and like you said: the good enough foreigners will make their own way there. But there's a difference between being inviting of Global Professional Gaming and positioning yourself above that, which (and I don't mean to offend anybody, I'm sorry if I do) I feel is the stance Kespa looks as though they have taken. They have been very critical of themselves with announcing their position to not be undermining of the global competitive scene, but they haven't positioned a stance with embracing it either; which just leaves me personally in an awkward place, thinking: Are they embracing Global Competition, or just acknowledging that it exists? Either outcome leads to a very different growth of e-sports, both of which the community can perceive to have a negative impact, but which is the lesser of two evils? EDIT: Just to add: I didn't mean the Korean league need to be inviting of foreigners, of course the foreigners have to earn their place, but I am afraid of the 'new' Korean leagues not embracing the Global scene. I don't want people to confuse Global and Foreign, as a global scene does and should involve the Korean scene. How dare Kespa treat foriegners like koreans and require them to EARN a pro gaming licence. Exactly, the GOM process to foreigners is cool and all but imagine if you are a Korean and some white guy gets an invitation to Code A and then proceeds to get utterly destroyed in the first round, it could have been one of the Code B Closet Gosus who had that spot! Another intriguing opinion, but the fact is (especially with the GOM process) that 'white guy' has actually earned his place there by performing against Code A Korean players in other notable global events. The foreign individuals have made a name for themselves competing against Code A players, doesn't that make them eligible to at least compete to be in Code A? Yes but the problem is that you're giving foreigners preferrential treatment. No korean would get those sweet bonuses, that is why it is a disgrace; not the pro players, but the league. Would you also suggest that in order to practicipate in a foreign tournemant, a Korean should live in the county of the tournemant for a month+? That's just to even things up you know. The difference is that the highest level of play is with Koreans, not foreigners. The problem is not in accomodating foreigners, but accomodating undeserving players. KeSPA doesn't run invitational tournaments, but that does not mean non-Koreans are banned; they just have to go thru the same selection process as everybody else; it just happens that in the BW era, no foreigner was good enough. It also happened to be, that the foreign scene was so small, that it would not have made any sense to accomodate foreing players. The situation is very different with SC2. GSL profits from foreign players due to more viewers and more money. The same way foreign tournaments profit greatly from korean players due to more viewers and more money. Now the reasons for why people want to see either players might be different (skill-level/ identification-figure), but every league today profits from having koreans and foreigners compete with each other. KESPA or the GSL might not need foreign viewers to be successfull, but why wouldn`t they try to get them? If the are lucky and a foreigner has an unexpected good run, even better for them. It costs them very little and it can profit them greatly.
But they did get accomodated. Nony made a lot of progress but decided to get back before winning Courage. Idra was given a license, but never was good enough for A team.
It does make sense to make invitational events where players of different origin/groups compete against each other. But expecting -or demanding- that KeSPA core tournaments should follow GSL or MLG is a bit far. Proleague and OSL are the most prestigious tournaments for a reason.
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i cannot wait for more and more bw players to switch to sc2! i also think it's great to have more than 1 major sc2 tournament in korea. the competition should raise the quality as well.
i'm also super excited about the sc2 pro league! sc2 deserves a league as the gsl is no league at all! it is a 2class tournament with code s and a. gst would fit sooo much better, but it just sounds bad...
alternatively i would love for gsl to transition into a league!
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Aww no interviews with Flash? Or even BW pros? TT
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qVqWb.jpg)
"i for one welcome our new BW overlords!"
i salute the whole BW scene, i would be proud if sc2 would even last half as long.
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On May 03 2012 01:45 BlueFlames wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 00:29 Sum41 wrote:On May 03 2012 00:08 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 02 2012 23:56 Sum41 wrote:this is a shit, they change broodwar for a inferior game just because of the $$, don't matter what you say, starcraft broodwar is much better. and Sc2 will never be as good as BW, won't last for so long, and as well as BW did This are good games, not like the boring stuff from Sc2!, watch it and learn what's really awesome. nothing in Sc2 will be compared to the feeling that bring this game, or The Jangbi vs Fantasy finals, Jaedong vs Stork in The OSL Ever Finals, etc. While i agree with the elitism of BW, it being a harder or more complex game and it being a better candidate for esports, in terms of technology it is simply outdated. Unfortunately the game uses technology that is 15 years old. When technology ages someone else develops a new version to replace it. Again, unfortunately, that is the case here: A large portion of why BW is being made redundant is because the technology is so outdated. the only thing that the technology has done is give better graphic to Sc2, in all the other aspects BW is superior. and play a game just for the graphics is like watch a porn movie for the argument -_-; that's why it's reatarded to kill BW, for a dumb game like SC2 Bad comparison. You could compare old graphics with porn, but you would have to compare VHS vs Blueray or something. Also i personally dont agree that BW is the better game. Thats just my opinion though. On topic. I really hope that the speculations about the old bw players and the sc2 players beeing able to participate in any league comes true. I want to see the best players to compete in all tournaments they chose to do so. I dont want to see a division or something even more stupid. For me its a good sign that all the parties seem to be talking and that Kespa seems to try a global approach with SC2. Now all i need is LAN Blizzard. Your stupid excuses fool noone!
if you think that SC broodwar isn't a better game, then you don't know anything about broodwar. it's much more strategic, it's more complex, requires more skill. i think that you have never played Broodwar, people that hasn't played it, or don't know too much about it, doesn't know how deep the gameplay is.
And SC2 has been made to casual players, you don't need great skill to play it at a decent level, or lot of knowledge to be good
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EPT
