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On May 02 2012 23:57 SC_Ghost wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 23:44 maybenexttime wrote:On May 02 2012 23:04 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 02 2012 22:55 GeLaar wrote:
I can't believe Blizzard pulled this off. I can't believe the Korean e-sports organisations let themselves get into a situation where Blizzard has them by the balls.
OGN and Kespa are taking some pretty big risks:
1. They might alienate their Korean fans - there is only one game that every Korean grew up knowing, and they're turing their backs on it and saying "Hey, let's have millions of people switch to this other game!". I'm curious to see if this will work, and if it does, how many times it will work (because they will have to do it again for the two "expansions", and for SC3, and so on.)
2. Since SC2 doesn't have LAN, these organisations are now completely at Blizzard's mercy. Blizzard now has the power to pull the plug on Proleague or any other event, without having to go to the Korean courts. With Brood War, the situation was different. After Blizzard backed out of the lawsuit, it was theirs to do whatever they wanted with it. That's a pretty big thing they gave away. I hope for their sake that the relationship doesn't sour, and that Blizzard doesn't decide to change the deal.
Overall, it's clear to me why Kespa and OGN did it. It's right there in the statement: international exposure. They are likely to get it, but the risks they are taking seem immense to me. It is a huge change, and if handled correctly and professionally it will be a huge step forward. I understand your concerns completely, I can see how if it was to go sour it would destroy an entire industry that's been over 10 years in the making. One thing that's clear for me is that if there are disputes amongst the united organisations it would no doubt be fixed without any underlying injustice. All of these organisations care about esports and, being a business, also care about money and the industry. I'm sure that Blizzard (as well as the other parties involved) won't impose such a dictatorial attitude due to the fact that success for ALL of the organisations means success for each of them, if they hurt their partners then in turn they hurt themselves. No, blizzard does not care about esport. Otherwise they wouldn't have tried to kill BW so badly. So far they have shown they're too incompetent to fix sc2, so I hope what they did will bite them in the ass. They're becoming the new EA, screw them... That's an interesting opinion. It has left me wondering, If they didn't care about esports why would they take part in this union? Surely if esports promotes their game, then esports is something worth investing time and resources into since it makes them more money, right? So that means they must care about esports because of their investments.
They care about money, not esports. If they decide it's not worth it, they will get rid of it. They won't support esports for the sake of furthering it. What so hard to understand? They killed the best RTS games to achieve their goal of trying to force Koreans to transition to SC2. If they come to a conclusion that SC2 takes away potential players from their upcoming cash cow, they will kill that game too with no hesitation.
No LAN, no cross-server play, no clan support, bad ladder design, bad custom game lobby, KeSPA lawsuit, forcing KeSPA to switch to SC2, glaring gameplay flaws in SC2. I could go on and on. There's nothing that's going to convince me they genuinely care about esports after what they have done over the years.
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On May 03 2012 00:04 NexUmbra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 23:58 TrainSamurai wrote:On May 02 2012 22:48 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 02 2012 22:11 fabiano wrote:On May 02 2012 18:23 SC_Ghost wrote:
I actually think Kespa still have too much of a Korean-centric focus going forward with SC2. When they were asked about foreign events, Kespa responded with "The main reason we switched to SC II was to put Korea forth as the motherland of esports." I can't see foreigners at Starleague within the next 2 years at least, and that's a huge push that I doubt it will ever happen, whereas I can see OGN conforming with GOMs approach with a more inviting league to foreigners. Why do foreigners want everything so easy for them? I fucking hate it. If they want to be good enough to play in SPL, it's their own job to go out there and make themselves known as fucking good players. If they are good I doubt any korean SPL team wouldn't hire them. This is fucking bullshit. Why should korean leagues be more inviting to foreigners? They should be welcoming the best players in the world, and only them. If it happens that all the best players in the world are koreans, too bad for foreigners. Happens that we are in a foreigner community and many people in it are so narrow minded that they feel "our" players should deserve a place in whatever korean league is created just because they are foreigners. If you want to play in the best tournament, you have to be the best, just because you are white (or black, or whatever other race) doesn't give you the right to claim a place in such leagues. "But mommy SPL happens in Korea, I can't play on same foot as the koreans, that's unfair!1!!". Well, fuck you. If you want to play in Korean leagues, go fucking live in Korea. "But I can't, too expensive, cultures too different, language barrier!1!!", fuck you again, the leagues happen in Korea, deal with it. You can't? Too bad, no SPL/OSL for you. The passport to korean leagues is your own fucking skills, not the fucking race you are. Perhaps you've interpreted my post in a way I didn't attempt it to be perceived, I take full responsibility for that and I hope you accept my apology. But if we look at every Professional Gaming Competition that's considered of substantial, professional Merit (Such as MLG, IPL, GSL, DH, etc.) they are all inviting a global competition: MLG and IPL invites European and Asian players as well as their 'native' American players; DH does the same, and GSL too. It's established that way so that the global competitive scene grows, not each individual league/nation. It promotes growth across the board, which can only be a good thing. I have no quarrels with Korea being the home of the best skilled players, it promotes Korean skill-level and makes an impression when a foreigner reaches that level, and like you said: the good enough foreigners will make their own way there. But there's a difference between being inviting of Global Professional Gaming and positioning yourself above that, which (and I don't mean to offend anybody, I'm sorry if I do) I feel is the stance Kespa looks as though they have taken. They have been very critical of themselves with announcing their position to not be undermining of the global competitive scene, but they haven't positioned a stance with embracing it either; which just leaves me personally in an awkward place, thinking: Are they embracing Global Competition, or just acknowledging that it exists? Either outcome leads to a very different growth of e-sports, both of which the community can perceive to have a negative impact, but which is the lesser of two evils? EDIT: Just to add: I didn't mean the Korean league need to be inviting of foreigners, of course the foreigners have to earn their place, but I am afraid of the 'new' Korean leagues not embracing the Global scene. I don't want people to confuse Global and Foreign, as a global scene does and should involve the Korean scene. How dare Kespa treat foriegners like koreans and require them to EARN a pro gaming licence. Exactly, the GOM process to foreigners is cool and all but imagine if you are a Korean and some white guy gets an invitation to Code A and then proceeds to get utterly destroyed in the first round, it could have been one of the Code B Closet Gosus who had that spot!
Another intriguing opinion, but the fact is (especially with the GOM process) that 'white guy' has actually earned his place there by performing against Code A Korean players in other notable global events. The foreign individuals have made a name for themselves competing against Code A players, doesn't that make them eligible to at least compete to be in Code A?
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On May 03 2012 00:13 SC_Ghost wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 00:04 NexUmbra wrote:On May 02 2012 23:58 TrainSamurai wrote:On May 02 2012 22:48 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 02 2012 22:11 fabiano wrote:On May 02 2012 18:23 SC_Ghost wrote:
I actually think Kespa still have too much of a Korean-centric focus going forward with SC2. When they were asked about foreign events, Kespa responded with "The main reason we switched to SC II was to put Korea forth as the motherland of esports." I can't see foreigners at Starleague within the next 2 years at least, and that's a huge push that I doubt it will ever happen, whereas I can see OGN conforming with GOMs approach with a more inviting league to foreigners. Why do foreigners want everything so easy for them? I fucking hate it. If they want to be good enough to play in SPL, it's their own job to go out there and make themselves known as fucking good players. If they are good I doubt any korean SPL team wouldn't hire them. This is fucking bullshit. Why should korean leagues be more inviting to foreigners? They should be welcoming the best players in the world, and only them. If it happens that all the best players in the world are koreans, too bad for foreigners. Happens that we are in a foreigner community and many people in it are so narrow minded that they feel "our" players should deserve a place in whatever korean league is created just because they are foreigners. If you want to play in the best tournament, you have to be the best, just because you are white (or black, or whatever other race) doesn't give you the right to claim a place in such leagues. "But mommy SPL happens in Korea, I can't play on same foot as the koreans, that's unfair!1!!". Well, fuck you. If you want to play in Korean leagues, go fucking live in Korea. "But I can't, too expensive, cultures too different, language barrier!1!!", fuck you again, the leagues happen in Korea, deal with it. You can't? Too bad, no SPL/OSL for you. The passport to korean leagues is your own fucking skills, not the fucking race you are. Perhaps you've interpreted my post in a way I didn't attempt it to be perceived, I take full responsibility for that and I hope you accept my apology. But if we look at every Professional Gaming Competition that's considered of substantial, professional Merit (Such as MLG, IPL, GSL, DH, etc.) they are all inviting a global competition: MLG and IPL invites European and Asian players as well as their 'native' American players; DH does the same, and GSL too. It's established that way so that the global competitive scene grows, not each individual league/nation. It promotes growth across the board, which can only be a good thing. I have no quarrels with Korea being the home of the best skilled players, it promotes Korean skill-level and makes an impression when a foreigner reaches that level, and like you said: the good enough foreigners will make their own way there. But there's a difference between being inviting of Global Professional Gaming and positioning yourself above that, which (and I don't mean to offend anybody, I'm sorry if I do) I feel is the stance Kespa looks as though they have taken. They have been very critical of themselves with announcing their position to not be undermining of the global competitive scene, but they haven't positioned a stance with embracing it either; which just leaves me personally in an awkward place, thinking: Are they embracing Global Competition, or just acknowledging that it exists? Either outcome leads to a very different growth of e-sports, both of which the community can perceive to have a negative impact, but which is the lesser of two evils? EDIT: Just to add: I didn't mean the Korean league need to be inviting of foreigners, of course the foreigners have to earn their place, but I am afraid of the 'new' Korean leagues not embracing the Global scene. I don't want people to confuse Global and Foreign, as a global scene does and should involve the Korean scene. How dare Kespa treat foriegners like koreans and require them to EARN a pro gaming licence. Exactly, the GOM process to foreigners is cool and all but imagine if you are a Korean and some white guy gets an invitation to Code A and then proceeds to get utterly destroyed in the first round, it could have been one of the Code B Closet Gosus who had that spot! Another intriguing opinion, but the fact is (especially with the GOM process) that 'white guy' has actually earned his place there by performing against Code A Korean players in other notable global events. The foreign individuals have made a name for themselves competing against Code A players, doesn't that make them eligible to at least compete to be in Code A?
Yes but the problem is that you're giving foreigners preferrential treatment. No korean would get those sweet bonuses, that is why it is a disgrace; not the pro players, but the league.
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On May 03 2012 00:12 TrainSamurai wrote:Contary to popular belief in sc2 forums Kespa never hindered foriengers (Idra and co.). If people want to play in one of the most prestigeous BW(soon to be sc2) league they have to apply and go through trials. I don't support this bs of inviting people. Show matches sure go nuts but anything else would disgrace the LEAGUE.
If you re-read my post, I don't condone inviting foreigners. I support being an inviting organisation towards the attitude of globalisation, expanding the reach of your organisation to the Global scene. These two things, 1) inviting foreigners to attend your event and 2) Supporting an attitude towards the globalisation are very very different things.
If you would like I'll do some digging and attempt to explain the definitions of both.
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On May 03 2012 00:15 TrainSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 00:13 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 03 2012 00:04 NexUmbra wrote:On May 02 2012 23:58 TrainSamurai wrote:On May 02 2012 22:48 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 02 2012 22:11 fabiano wrote:On May 02 2012 18:23 SC_Ghost wrote:
I actually think Kespa still have too much of a Korean-centric focus going forward with SC2. When they were asked about foreign events, Kespa responded with "The main reason we switched to SC II was to put Korea forth as the motherland of esports." I can't see foreigners at Starleague within the next 2 years at least, and that's a huge push that I doubt it will ever happen, whereas I can see OGN conforming with GOMs approach with a more inviting league to foreigners. Why do foreigners want everything so easy for them? I fucking hate it. If they want to be good enough to play in SPL, it's their own job to go out there and make themselves known as fucking good players. If they are good I doubt any korean SPL team wouldn't hire them. This is fucking bullshit. Why should korean leagues be more inviting to foreigners? They should be welcoming the best players in the world, and only them. If it happens that all the best players in the world are koreans, too bad for foreigners. Happens that we are in a foreigner community and many people in it are so narrow minded that they feel "our" players should deserve a place in whatever korean league is created just because they are foreigners. If you want to play in the best tournament, you have to be the best, just because you are white (or black, or whatever other race) doesn't give you the right to claim a place in such leagues. "But mommy SPL happens in Korea, I can't play on same foot as the koreans, that's unfair!1!!". Well, fuck you. If you want to play in Korean leagues, go fucking live in Korea. "But I can't, too expensive, cultures too different, language barrier!1!!", fuck you again, the leagues happen in Korea, deal with it. You can't? Too bad, no SPL/OSL for you. The passport to korean leagues is your own fucking skills, not the fucking race you are. Perhaps you've interpreted my post in a way I didn't attempt it to be perceived, I take full responsibility for that and I hope you accept my apology. But if we look at every Professional Gaming Competition that's considered of substantial, professional Merit (Such as MLG, IPL, GSL, DH, etc.) they are all inviting a global competition: MLG and IPL invites European and Asian players as well as their 'native' American players; DH does the same, and GSL too. It's established that way so that the global competitive scene grows, not each individual league/nation. It promotes growth across the board, which can only be a good thing. I have no quarrels with Korea being the home of the best skilled players, it promotes Korean skill-level and makes an impression when a foreigner reaches that level, and like you said: the good enough foreigners will make their own way there. But there's a difference between being inviting of Global Professional Gaming and positioning yourself above that, which (and I don't mean to offend anybody, I'm sorry if I do) I feel is the stance Kespa looks as though they have taken. They have been very critical of themselves with announcing their position to not be undermining of the global competitive scene, but they haven't positioned a stance with embracing it either; which just leaves me personally in an awkward place, thinking: Are they embracing Global Competition, or just acknowledging that it exists? Either outcome leads to a very different growth of e-sports, both of which the community can perceive to have a negative impact, but which is the lesser of two evils? EDIT: Just to add: I didn't mean the Korean league need to be inviting of foreigners, of course the foreigners have to earn their place, but I am afraid of the 'new' Korean leagues not embracing the Global scene. I don't want people to confuse Global and Foreign, as a global scene does and should involve the Korean scene. How dare Kespa treat foriegners like koreans and require them to EARN a pro gaming licence. Exactly, the GOM process to foreigners is cool and all but imagine if you are a Korean and some white guy gets an invitation to Code A and then proceeds to get utterly destroyed in the first round, it could have been one of the Code B Closet Gosus who had that spot! Another intriguing opinion, but the fact is (especially with the GOM process) that 'white guy' has actually earned his place there by performing against Code A Korean players in other notable global events. The foreign individuals have made a name for themselves competing against Code A players, doesn't that make them eligible to at least compete to be in Code A? Yes but the problem is that you're giving foreigners preferrential treatment. No korean would get those sweet bonuses, that is why it is a disgrace; not the pro players, but the league.
Uhm... Polt is not a korean?
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On May 03 2012 00:15 TrainSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 00:13 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 03 2012 00:04 NexUmbra wrote:On May 02 2012 23:58 TrainSamurai wrote:On May 02 2012 22:48 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 02 2012 22:11 fabiano wrote:On May 02 2012 18:23 SC_Ghost wrote:
I actually think Kespa still have too much of a Korean-centric focus going forward with SC2. When they were asked about foreign events, Kespa responded with "The main reason we switched to SC II was to put Korea forth as the motherland of esports." I can't see foreigners at Starleague within the next 2 years at least, and that's a huge push that I doubt it will ever happen, whereas I can see OGN conforming with GOMs approach with a more inviting league to foreigners. Why do foreigners want everything so easy for them? I fucking hate it. If they want to be good enough to play in SPL, it's their own job to go out there and make themselves known as fucking good players. If they are good I doubt any korean SPL team wouldn't hire them. This is fucking bullshit. Why should korean leagues be more inviting to foreigners? They should be welcoming the best players in the world, and only them. If it happens that all the best players in the world are koreans, too bad for foreigners. Happens that we are in a foreigner community and many people in it are so narrow minded that they feel "our" players should deserve a place in whatever korean league is created just because they are foreigners. If you want to play in the best tournament, you have to be the best, just because you are white (or black, or whatever other race) doesn't give you the right to claim a place in such leagues. On May 03 2012 00:23 Morfildur wrote:On May 03 2012 00:15 TrainSamurai wrote:On May 03 2012 00:13 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 03 2012 00:04 NexUmbra wrote:
[quote]
Exactly, the GOM process to foreigners is cool and all but imagine if you are a Korean and some white guy gets an invitation to Code A and then proceeds to get utterly destroyed in the first round, it could have been one of the Code B Closet Gosus who had that spot!
Another intriguing opinion, but the fact is (especially with the GOM process) that 'white guy' has actually earned his place there by performing against Code A Korean players in other notable global events. The foreign individuals have made a name for themselves competing against Code A players, doesn't that make them eligible to at least compete to be in Code A? Yes but the problem is that you're giving foreigners preferrential treatment. No korean would get those sweet bonuses, that is why it is a disgrace; not the pro players, but the league. Uhm... Polt is not a korean? "But mommy SPL happens in Korea, I can't play on same foot as the koreans, that's unfair!1!!". Well, fuck you. If you want to play in Korean leagues, go fucking live in Korea. "But I can't, too expensive, cultures too different, language barrier!1!!", fuck you again, the leagues happen in Korea, deal with it. You can't? Too bad, no SPL/OSL for you. The passport to korean leagues is your own fucking skills, not the fucking race you are. Perhaps you've interpreted my post in a way I didn't attempt it to be perceived, I take full responsibility for that and I hope you accept my apology. But if we look at every Professional Gaming Competition that's considered of substantial, professional Merit (Such as MLG, IPL, GSL, DH, etc.) they are all inviting a global competition: MLG and IPL invites European and Asian players as well as their 'native' American players; DH does the same, and GSL too. It's established that way so that the global competitive scene grows, not each individual league/nation. It promotes growth across the board, which can only be a good thing. I have no quarrels with Korea being the home of the best skilled players, it promotes Korean skill-level and makes an impression when a foreigner reaches that level, and like you said: the good enough foreigners will make their own way there. But there's a difference between being inviting of Global Professional Gaming and positioning yourself above that, which (and I don't mean to offend anybody, I'm sorry if I do) I feel is the stance Kespa looks as though they have taken. They have been very critical of themselves with announcing their position to not be undermining of the global competitive scene, but they haven't positioned a stance with embracing it either; which just leaves me personally in an awkward place, thinking: Are they embracing Global Competition, or just acknowledging that it exists? Either outcome leads to a very different growth of e-sports, both of which the community can perceive to have a negative impact, but which is the lesser of two evils? EDIT: Just to add: I didn't mean the Korean league need to be inviting of foreigners, of course the foreigners have to earn their place, but I am afraid of the 'new' Korean leagues not embracing the Global scene. I don't want people to confuse Global and Foreign, as a global scene does and should involve the Korean scene. How dare Kespa treat foriegners like koreans and require them to EARN a pro gaming licence. Exactly, the GOM process to foreigners is cool and all but imagine if you are a Korean and some white guy gets an invitation to Code A and then proceeds to get utterly destroyed in the first round, it could have been one of the Code B Closet Gosus who had that spot! Another intriguing opinion, but the fact is (especially with the GOM process) that 'white guy' has actually earned his place there by performing against Code A Korean players in other notable global events. The foreign individuals have made a name for themselves competing against Code A players, doesn't that make them eligible to at least compete to be in Code A? Yes but the problem is that you're giving foreigners preferrential treatment. No korean would get those sweet bonuses, that is why it is a disgrace; not the pro players, but the league.
Where's the preferential treatment?
At MLG, Dreamhack or IPL Stephano beats Code A/Code S players and ranks highly in every event. Does that not make him eligible to at least compete to try and qualify for Code A or Code S? The same would be the case for a B-Teamer Korean getting consistent results vs Code S players, they would be subject to exposure and therefore would have earned a chance. I don't see it preferential at all.
On May 03 2012 00:23 Morfildur wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 00:15 TrainSamurai wrote:On May 03 2012 00:13 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 03 2012 00:04 NexUmbra wrote:On May 02 2012 23:58 TrainSamurai wrote:On May 02 2012 22:48 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 02 2012 22:11 fabiano wrote:On May 02 2012 18:23 SC_Ghost wrote:
I actually think Kespa still have too much of a Korean-centric focus going forward with SC2. When they were asked about foreign events, Kespa responded with "The main reason we switched to SC II was to put Korea forth as the motherland of esports." I can't see foreigners at Starleague within the next 2 years at least, and that's a huge push that I doubt it will ever happen, whereas I can see OGN conforming with GOMs approach with a more inviting league to foreigners. Why do foreigners want everything so easy for them? I fucking hate it. If they want to be good enough to play in SPL, it's their own job to go out there and make themselves known as fucking good players. If they are good I doubt any korean SPL team wouldn't hire them. This is fucking bullshit. Why should korean leagues be more inviting to foreigners? They should be welcoming the best players in the world, and only them. If it happens that all the best players in the world are koreans, too bad for foreigners. Happens that we are in a foreigner community and many people in it are so narrow minded that they feel "our" players should deserve a place in whatever korean league is created just because they are foreigners. If you want to play in the best tournament, you have to be the best, just because you are white (or black, or whatever other race) doesn't give you the right to claim a place in such leagues. "But mommy SPL happens in Korea, I can't play on same foot as the koreans, that's unfair!1!!". Well, fuck you. If you want to play in Korean leagues, go fucking live in Korea. "But I can't, too expensive, cultures too different, language barrier!1!!", fuck you again, the leagues happen in Korea, deal with it. You can't? Too bad, no SPL/OSL for you. The passport to korean leagues is your own fucking skills, not the fucking race you are. Perhaps you've interpreted my post in a way I didn't attempt it to be perceived, I take full responsibility for that and I hope you accept my apology. But if we look at every Professional Gaming Competition that's considered of substantial, professional Merit (Such as MLG, IPL, GSL, DH, etc.) they are all inviting a global competition: MLG and IPL invites European and Asian players as well as their 'native' American players; DH does the same, and GSL too. It's established that way so that the global competitive scene grows, not each individual league/nation. It promotes growth across the board, which can only be a good thing. I have no quarrels with Korea being the home of the best skilled players, it promotes Korean skill-level and makes an impression when a foreigner reaches that level, and like you said: the good enough foreigners will make their own way there. But there's a difference between being inviting of Global Professional Gaming and positioning yourself above that, which (and I don't mean to offend anybody, I'm sorry if I do) I feel is the stance Kespa looks as though they have taken. They have been very critical of themselves with announcing their position to not be undermining of the global competitive scene, but they haven't positioned a stance with embracing it either; which just leaves me personally in an awkward place, thinking: Are they embracing Global Competition, or just acknowledging that it exists? Either outcome leads to a very different growth of e-sports, both of which the community can perceive to have a negative impact, but which is the lesser of two evils? EDIT: Just to add: I didn't mean the Korean league need to be inviting of foreigners, of course the foreigners have to earn their place, but I am afraid of the 'new' Korean leagues not embracing the Global scene. I don't want people to confuse Global and Foreign, as a global scene does and should involve the Korean scene. How dare Kespa treat foriegners like koreans and require them to EARN a pro gaming licence. Exactly, the GOM process to foreigners is cool and all but imagine if you are a Korean and some white guy gets an invitation to Code A and then proceeds to get utterly destroyed in the first round, it could have been one of the Code B Closet Gosus who had that spot! Another intriguing opinion, but the fact is (especially with the GOM process) that 'white guy' has actually earned his place there by performing against Code A Korean players in other notable global events. The foreign individuals have made a name for themselves competing against Code A players, doesn't that make them eligible to at least compete to be in Code A? Yes but the problem is that you're giving foreigners preferrential treatment. No korean would get those sweet bonuses, that is why it is a disgrace; not the pro players, but the league. Uhm... Polt is not a korean?
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On May 03 2012 00:08 SC_Ghost wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 23:56 Sum41 wrote:this is a shit, they change broodwar for a inferior game just because of the $$, don't matter what you say, starcraft broodwar is much better. and Sc2 will never be as good as BW, won't last for so long, and as well as BW did This are good games, not like the boring stuff from Sc2!, watch it and learn what's really awesome. nothing in Sc2 will be compared to the feeling that bring this game, or The Jangbi vs Fantasy finals, Jaedong vs Stork in The OSL Ever Finals, etc. While i agree with the elitism of BW, it being a harder or more complex game and it being a better candidate for esports, in terms of technology it is simply outdated. Unfortunately the game uses technology that is 15 years old. When technology ages someone else develops a new version to replace it. Again, unfortunately, that is the case here: A large portion of why BW is being made redundant is because the technology is so outdated.
the only thing that the technology has done is give better graphic to Sc2, in all the other aspects BW is superior.
and play a game just for the graphics is like watch a porn movie for the argument -_-;
that's why it's reatarded to kill BW, for a dumb game like SC2
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On May 03 2012 00:26 SC_Ghost wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 00:15 TrainSamurai wrote:On May 03 2012 00:13 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 03 2012 00:04 NexUmbra wrote:On May 02 2012 23:58 TrainSamurai wrote:On May 02 2012 22:48 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 02 2012 22:11 fabiano wrote:On May 02 2012 18:23 SC_Ghost wrote:
I actually think Kespa still have too much of a Korean-centric focus going forward with SC2. When they were asked about foreign events, Kespa responded with "The main reason we switched to SC II was to put Korea forth as the motherland of esports." I can't see foreigners at Starleague within the next 2 years at least, and that's a huge push that I doubt it will ever happen, whereas I can see OGN conforming with GOMs approach with a more inviting league to foreigners. Why do foreigners want everything so easy for them? I fucking hate it. If they want to be good enough to play in SPL, it's their own job to go out there and make themselves known as fucking good players. If they are good I doubt any korean SPL team wouldn't hire them. This is fucking bullshit. Why should korean leagues be more inviting to foreigners? They should be welcoming the best players in the world, and only them. If it happens that all the best players in the world are koreans, too bad for foreigners. Happens that we are in a foreigner community and many people in it are so narrow minded that they feel "our" players should deserve a place in whatever korean league is created just because they are foreigners. If you want to play in the best tournament, you have to be the best, just because you are white (or black, or whatever other race) doesn't give you the right to claim a place in such leagues. "But mommy SPL happens in Korea, I can't play on same foot as the koreans, that's unfair!1!!". Well, fuck you. If you want to play in Korean leagues, go fucking live in Korea. "But I can't, too expensive, cultures too different, language barrier!1!!", fuck you again, the leagues happen in Korea, deal with it. You can't? Too bad, no SPL/OSL for you. The passport to korean leagues is your own fucking skills, not the fucking race you are. Perhaps you've interpreted my post in a way I didn't attempt it to be perceived, I take full responsibility for that and I hope you accept my apology. But if we look at every Professional Gaming Competition that's considered of substantial, professional Merit (Such as MLG, IPL, GSL, DH, etc.) they are all inviting a global competition: MLG and IPL invites European and Asian players as well as their 'native' American players; DH does the same, and GSL too. It's established that way so that the global competitive scene grows, not each individual league/nation. It promotes growth across the board, which can only be a good thing. I have no quarrels with Korea being the home of the best skilled players, it promotes Korean skill-level and makes an impression when a foreigner reaches that level, and like you said: the good enough foreigners will make their own way there. But there's a difference between being inviting of Global Professional Gaming and positioning yourself above that, which (and I don't mean to offend anybody, I'm sorry if I do) I feel is the stance Kespa looks as though they have taken. They have been very critical of themselves with announcing their position to not be undermining of the global competitive scene, but they haven't positioned a stance with embracing it either; which just leaves me personally in an awkward place, thinking: Are they embracing Global Competition, or just acknowledging that it exists? Either outcome leads to a very different growth of e-sports, both of which the community can perceive to have a negative impact, but which is the lesser of two evils? EDIT: Just to add: I didn't mean the Korean league need to be inviting of foreigners, of course the foreigners have to earn their place, but I am afraid of the 'new' Korean leagues not embracing the Global scene. I don't want people to confuse Global and Foreign, as a global scene does and should involve the Korean scene. How dare Kespa treat foriegners like koreans and require them to EARN a pro gaming licence. Exactly, the GOM process to foreigners is cool and all but imagine if you are a Korean and some white guy gets an invitation to Code A and then proceeds to get utterly destroyed in the first round, it could have been one of the Code B Closet Gosus who had that spot! Another intriguing opinion, but the fact is (especially with the GOM process) that 'white guy' has actually earned his place there by performing against Code A Korean players in other notable global events. The foreign individuals have made a name for themselves competing against Code A players, doesn't that make them eligible to at least compete to be in Code A? Yes but the problem is that you're giving foreigners preferrential treatment. No korean would get those sweet bonuses, that is why it is a disgrace; not the pro players, but the league. Where's the preferential treatment? At MLG, Dreamhack or IPL Stephano beats Code A/Code S players and ranks highly in every event. Does that not make him eligible to at least compete to try and qualify for Code A or Code S?
No. If I had my way he would have to go through qualifiers. Then again I'm not sure how GSL format even works, too confusing. Just saying if he wants to compete in a presteigeous tournament like Proleague anything less than passing qualifications is preferrential treatment in my book. Even Flash had to do it, it only took him one month. If Stephano has the ability he shouldn't be afraid of it.
@ Polt comment, well he did go overseas didn't he?
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if their idea of commentary is having torch and moletrap do sc2 alongside their LoL broadcast then shoot me now
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On May 03 2012 00:29 TrainSamurai wrote:
No. If I had my way he would have to go through qualifiers. Then again I'm not sure how GSL format even works, too confusing. Just saying if he wants to compete in a presteigeous tournament like Proleague anything less than passing qualifications is preferrential treatment in my book. Even Flash had to do it .
@ Polt comment, well he did go overseas didn't he?
On May 03 2012 00:26 SC_Ghost wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 00:15 TrainSamurai wrote:On May 03 2012 00:13 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 03 2012 00:04 NexUmbra wrote:On May 02 2012 23:58 TrainSamurai wrote:On May 02 2012 22:48 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 02 2012 22:11 fabiano wrote:On May 02 2012 18:23 SC_Ghost wrote:
I actually think Kespa still have too much of a Korean-centric focus going forward with SC2. When they were asked about foreign events, Kespa responded with "The main reason we switched to SC II was to put Korea forth as the motherland of esports." I can't see foreigners at Starleague within the next 2 years at least, and that's a huge push that I doubt it will ever happen, whereas I can see OGN conforming with GOMs approach with a more inviting league to foreigners. Why do foreigners want everything so easy for them? I fucking hate it. If they want to be good enough to play in SPL, it's their own job to go out there and make themselves known as fucking good players. If they are good I doubt any korean SPL team wouldn't hire them. This is fucking bullshit. Why should korean leagues be more inviting to foreigners? They should be welcoming the best players in the world, and only them. If it happens that all the best players in the world are koreans, too bad for foreigners. Happens that we are in a foreigner community and many people in it are so narrow minded that they feel "our" players should deserve a place in whatever korean league is created just because they are foreigners. If you want to play in the best tournament, you have to be the best, just because you are white (or black, or whatever other race) doesn't give you the right to claim a place in such leagues. "But mommy SPL happens in Korea, I can't play on same foot as the koreans, that's unfair!1!!". Well, fuck you. If you want to play in Korean leagues, go fucking live in Korea. "But I can't, too expensive, cultures too different, language barrier!1!!", fuck you again, the leagues happen in Korea, deal with it. You can't? Too bad, no SPL/OSL for you. The passport to korean leagues is your own fucking skills, not the fucking race you are. Perhaps you've interpreted my post in a way I didn't attempt it to be perceived, I take full responsibility for that and I hope you accept my apology. But if we look at every Professional Gaming Competition that's considered of substantial, professional Merit (Such as MLG, IPL, GSL, DH, etc.) they are all inviting a global competition: MLG and IPL invites European and Asian players as well as their 'native' American players; DH does the same, and GSL too. It's established that way so that the global competitive scene grows, not each individual league/nation. It promotes growth across the board, which can only be a good thing. I have no quarrels with Korea being the home of the best skilled players, it promotes Korean skill-level and makes an impression when a foreigner reaches that level, and like you said: the good enough foreigners will make their own way there. But there's a difference between being inviting of Global Professional Gaming and positioning yourself above that, which (and I don't mean to offend anybody, I'm sorry if I do) I feel is the stance Kespa looks as though they have taken. They have been very critical of themselves with announcing their position to not be undermining of the global competitive scene, but they haven't positioned a stance with embracing it either; which just leaves me personally in an awkward place, thinking: Are they embracing Global Competition, or just acknowledging that it exists? Either outcome leads to a very different growth of e-sports, both of which the community can perceive to have a negative impact, but which is the lesser of two evils? EDIT: Just to add: I didn't mean the Korean league need to be inviting of foreigners, of course the foreigners have to earn their place, but I am afraid of the 'new' Korean leagues not embracing the Global scene. I don't want people to confuse Global and Foreign, as a global scene does and should involve the Korean scene. How dare Kespa treat foriegners like koreans and require them to EARN a pro gaming licence. Exactly, the GOM process to foreigners is cool and all but imagine if you are a Korean and some white guy gets an invitation to Code A and then proceeds to get utterly destroyed in the first round, it could have been one of the Code B Closet Gosus who had that spot! Another intriguing opinion, but the fact is (especially with the GOM process) that 'white guy' has actually earned his place there by performing against Code A Korean players in other notable global events. The foreign individuals have made a name for themselves competing against Code A players, doesn't that make them eligible to at least compete to be in Code A? Yes but the problem is that you're giving foreigners preferrential treatment. No korean would get those sweet bonuses, that is why it is a disgrace; not the pro players, but the league. Where's the preferential treatment? At MLG, Dreamhack or IPL Stephano beats Code A/Code S players and ranks highly in every event. Does that not make him eligible to at least compete to try and qualify for Code A or Code S?
Does this mean you agree with me or? I'm a bit confused by your response.
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On May 03 2012 00:31 SC_Ghost wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 00:29 TrainSamurai wrote:
No. If I had my way he would have to go through qualifiers. Then again I'm not sure how GSL format even works, too confusing. Just saying if he wants to compete in a presteigeous tournament like Proleague anything less than passing qualifications is preferrential treatment in my book. Even Flash had to do it .
@ Polt comment, well he did go overseas didn't he?
Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 00:26 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 03 2012 00:15 TrainSamurai wrote:On May 03 2012 00:13 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 03 2012 00:04 NexUmbra wrote:On May 02 2012 23:58 TrainSamurai wrote:On May 02 2012 22:48 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 02 2012 22:11 fabiano wrote:On May 02 2012 18:23 SC_Ghost wrote:
I actually think Kespa still have too much of a Korean-centric focus going forward with SC2. When they were asked about foreign events, Kespa responded with "The main reason we switched to SC II was to put Korea forth as the motherland of esports." I can't see foreigners at Starleague within the next 2 years at least, and that's a huge push that I doubt it will ever happen, whereas I can see OGN conforming with GOMs approach with a more inviting league to foreigners. Why do foreigners want everything so easy for them? I fucking hate it. If they want to be good enough to play in SPL, it's their own job to go out there and make themselves known as fucking good players. If they are good I doubt any korean SPL team wouldn't hire them. This is fucking bullshit. Why should korean leagues be more inviting to foreigners? They should be welcoming the best players in the world, and only them. If it happens that all the best players in the world are koreans, too bad for foreigners. Happens that we are in a foreigner community and many people in it are so narrow minded that they feel "our" players should deserve a place in whatever korean league is created just because they are foreigners. If you want to play in the best tournament, you have to be the best, just because you are white (or black, or whatever other race) doesn't give you the right to claim a place in such leagues. "But mommy SPL happens in Korea, I can't play on same foot as the koreans, that's unfair!1!!". Well, fuck you. If you want to play in Korean leagues, go fucking live in Korea. "But I can't, too expensive, cultures too different, language barrier!1!!", fuck you again, the leagues happen in Korea, deal with it. You can't? Too bad, no SPL/OSL for you. The passport to korean leagues is your own fucking skills, not the fucking race you are. Perhaps you've interpreted my post in a way I didn't attempt it to be perceived, I take full responsibility for that and I hope you accept my apology. But if we look at every Professional Gaming Competition that's considered of substantial, professional Merit (Such as MLG, IPL, GSL, DH, etc.) they are all inviting a global competition: MLG and IPL invites European and Asian players as well as their 'native' American players; DH does the same, and GSL too. It's established that way so that the global competitive scene grows, not each individual league/nation. It promotes growth across the board, which can only be a good thing. I have no quarrels with Korea being the home of the best skilled players, it promotes Korean skill-level and makes an impression when a foreigner reaches that level, and like you said: the good enough foreigners will make their own way there. But there's a difference between being inviting of Global Professional Gaming and positioning yourself above that, which (and I don't mean to offend anybody, I'm sorry if I do) I feel is the stance Kespa looks as though they have taken. They have been very critical of themselves with announcing their position to not be undermining of the global competitive scene, but they haven't positioned a stance with embracing it either; which just leaves me personally in an awkward place, thinking: Are they embracing Global Competition, or just acknowledging that it exists? Either outcome leads to a very different growth of e-sports, both of which the community can perceive to have a negative impact, but which is the lesser of two evils? EDIT: Just to add: I didn't mean the Korean league need to be inviting of foreigners, of course the foreigners have to earn their place, but I am afraid of the 'new' Korean leagues not embracing the Global scene. I don't want people to confuse Global and Foreign, as a global scene does and should involve the Korean scene. How dare Kespa treat foriegners like koreans and require them to EARN a pro gaming licence. Exactly, the GOM process to foreigners is cool and all but imagine if you are a Korean and some white guy gets an invitation to Code A and then proceeds to get utterly destroyed in the first round, it could have been one of the Code B Closet Gosus who had that spot! Another intriguing opinion, but the fact is (especially with the GOM process) that 'white guy' has actually earned his place there by performing against Code A Korean players in other notable global events. The foreign individuals have made a name for themselves competing against Code A players, doesn't that make them eligible to at least compete to be in Code A? Yes but the problem is that you're giving foreigners preferrential treatment. No korean would get those sweet bonuses, that is why it is a disgrace; not the pro players, but the league. Where's the preferential treatment? At MLG, Dreamhack or IPL Stephano beats Code A/Code S players and ranks highly in every event. Does that not make him eligible to at least compete to try and qualify for Code A or Code S?
We were originally talking about Kespa. Proleague is Kespa's. You were talking about some crap about opening up moreso than what they've currently done. Maybe you just don't know anything about Kespa?
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On May 03 2012 00:32 TrainSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 00:31 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 03 2012 00:29 TrainSamurai wrote:
No. If I had my way he would have to go through qualifiers. Then again I'm not sure how GSL format even works, too confusing. Just saying if he wants to compete in a presteigeous tournament like Proleague anything less than passing qualifications is preferrential treatment in my book. Even Flash had to do it .
@ Polt comment, well he did go overseas didn't he?
On May 03 2012 00:26 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 03 2012 00:15 TrainSamurai wrote:On May 03 2012 00:13 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 03 2012 00:04 NexUmbra wrote:On May 02 2012 23:58 TrainSamurai wrote:On May 02 2012 22:48 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 02 2012 22:11 fabiano wrote:On May 02 2012 18:23 SC_Ghost wrote:
I actually think Kespa still have too much of a Korean-centric focus going forward with SC2. When they were asked about foreign events, Kespa responded with "The main reason we switched to SC II was to put Korea forth as the motherland of esports." I can't see foreigners at Starleague within the next 2 years at least, and that's a huge push that I doubt it will ever happen, whereas I can see OGN conforming with GOMs approach with a more inviting league to foreigners. Why do foreigners want everything so easy for them? I fucking hate it. If they want to be good enough to play in SPL, it's their own job to go out there and make themselves known as fucking good players. If they are good I doubt any korean SPL team wouldn't hire them. This is fucking bullshit. Why should korean leagues be more inviting to foreigners? They should be welcoming the best players in the world, and only them. If it happens that all the best players in the world are koreans, too bad for foreigners. Happens that we are in a foreigner community and many people in it are so narrow minded that they feel "our" players should deserve a place in whatever korean league is created just because they are foreigners. If you want to play in the best tournament, you have to be the best, just because you are white (or black, or whatever other race) doesn't give you the right to claim a place in such leagues. "But mommy SPL happens in Korea, I can't play on same foot as the koreans, that's unfair!1!!". Well, fuck you. If you want to play in Korean leagues, go fucking live in Korea. "But I can't, too expensive, cultures too different, language barrier!1!!", fuck you again, the leagues happen in Korea, deal with it. You can't? Too bad, no SPL/OSL for you. The passport to korean leagues is your own fucking skills, not the fucking race you are. Perhaps you've interpreted my post in a way I didn't attempt it to be perceived, I take full responsibility for that and I hope you accept my apology. But if we look at every Professional Gaming Competition that's considered of substantial, professional Merit (Such as MLG, IPL, GSL, DH, etc.) they are all inviting a global competition: MLG and IPL invites European and Asian players as well as their 'native' American players; DH does the same, and GSL too. It's established that way so that the global competitive scene grows, not each individual league/nation. It promotes growth across the board, which can only be a good thing. I have no quarrels with Korea being the home of the best skilled players, it promotes Korean skill-level and makes an impression when a foreigner reaches that level, and like you said: the good enough foreigners will make their own way there. But there's a difference between being inviting of Global Professional Gaming and positioning yourself above that, which (and I don't mean to offend anybody, I'm sorry if I do) I feel is the stance Kespa looks as though they have taken. They have been very critical of themselves with announcing their position to not be undermining of the global competitive scene, but they haven't positioned a stance with embracing it either; which just leaves me personally in an awkward place, thinking: Are they embracing Global Competition, or just acknowledging that it exists? Either outcome leads to a very different growth of e-sports, both of which the community can perceive to have a negative impact, but which is the lesser of two evils? EDIT: Just to add: I didn't mean the Korean league need to be inviting of foreigners, of course the foreigners have to earn their place, but I am afraid of the 'new' Korean leagues not embracing the Global scene. I don't want people to confuse Global and Foreign, as a global scene does and should involve the Korean scene. How dare Kespa treat foriegners like koreans and require them to EARN a pro gaming licence. Exactly, the GOM process to foreigners is cool and all but imagine if you are a Korean and some white guy gets an invitation to Code A and then proceeds to get utterly destroyed in the first round, it could have been one of the Code B Closet Gosus who had that spot! Another intriguing opinion, but the fact is (especially with the GOM process) that 'white guy' has actually earned his place there by performing against Code A Korean players in other notable global events. The foreign individuals have made a name for themselves competing against Code A players, doesn't that make them eligible to at least compete to be in Code A? Yes but the problem is that you're giving foreigners preferrential treatment. No korean would get those sweet bonuses, that is why it is a disgrace; not the pro players, but the league. Where's the preferential treatment? At MLG, Dreamhack or IPL Stephano beats Code A/Code S players and ranks highly in every event. Does that not make him eligible to at least compete to try and qualify for Code A or Code S? We were originally talking about Kespa. Proleague is Kespa's.
Kespa should act the same in all honesty. Notable foreigners like Stephano, Naniwa, HuK, Idra and many others; Kespa should acknowledge these players that are of the same caliber as Code A/Code S players and should invited them to qualify for their league, if they don't qualify, fine, better luck next season. That's not a wrong thing to happen, in fact it looks pretty ideal.
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Foreign tournaments invite koreans because it is known that overall they are the best players, and the audience wants to watch the best players battle it out.
I'm pretty sure Korea would love to have a foreigner in their league, as long as he is able to compete with the rest of the players with the same or better skills. What they want is not a league full of koreans, but a league full of skilled progamers who can actually provide games worth watching, therefore making their audience ratings grow.
MLG, DH and IPL are seen as inferior tournaments if compared to GSL. Why? Is it because it is full of foreigners? No, it's not because the color of their skin, but because the majority (note that not all) of the players are seen as less skilled than those at GSL.
If you want a truly global league, with the best players from all over the world, then you want something like WCG or that upcoming Blizzard World Championship (or something), where each region of the world gets a seed into the tournament. Unfortunately only koreans are the really good SC players, so WCG skillwise would be much less interesting than say OSL.
If OGN fucks up and add MLG/DH/IPL seeds, they would lose prestige I believe.
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On May 03 2012 00:35 SC_Ghost wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 00:32 TrainSamurai wrote:On May 03 2012 00:31 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 03 2012 00:29 TrainSamurai wrote:
No. If I had my way he would have to go through qualifiers. Then again I'm not sure how GSL format even works, too confusing. Just saying if he wants to compete in a presteigeous tournament like Proleague anything less than passing qualifications is preferrential treatment in my book. Even Flash had to do it .
@ Polt comment, well he did go overseas didn't he?
On May 03 2012 00:26 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 03 2012 00:15 TrainSamurai wrote:On May 03 2012 00:13 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 03 2012 00:04 NexUmbra wrote:On May 02 2012 23:58 TrainSamurai wrote:On May 02 2012 22:48 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 02 2012 22:11 fabiano wrote:
[quote]
Why do foreigners want everything so easy for them? I fucking hate it.
If they want to be good enough to play in SPL, it's their own job to go out there and make themselves known as fucking good players. If they are good I doubt any korean SPL team wouldn't hire them.
This is fucking bullshit. Why should korean leagues be more inviting to foreigners? They should be welcoming the best players in the world, and only them. If it happens that all the best players in the world are koreans, too bad for foreigners.
Happens that we are in a foreigner community and many people in it are so narrow minded that they feel "our" players should deserve a place in whatever korean league is created just because they are foreigners. If you want to play in the best tournament, you have to be the best, just because you are white (or black, or whatever other race) doesn't give you the right to claim a place in such leagues.
"But mommy SPL happens in Korea, I can't play on same foot as the koreans, that's unfair!1!!". Well, fuck you. If you want to play in Korean leagues, go fucking live in Korea. "But I can't, too expensive, cultures too different, language barrier!1!!", fuck you again, the leagues happen in Korea, deal with it. You can't? Too bad, no SPL/OSL for you.
The passport to korean leagues is your own fucking skills, not the fucking race you are. Perhaps you've interpreted my post in a way I didn't attempt it to be perceived, I take full responsibility for that and I hope you accept my apology. But if we look at every Professional Gaming Competition that's considered of substantial, professional Merit (Such as MLG, IPL, GSL, DH, etc.) they are all inviting a global competition: MLG and IPL invites European and Asian players as well as their 'native' American players; DH does the same, and GSL too. It's established that way so that the global competitive scene grows, not each individual league/nation. It promotes growth across the board, which can only be a good thing. I have no quarrels with Korea being the home of the best skilled players, it promotes Korean skill-level and makes an impression when a foreigner reaches that level, and like you said: the good enough foreigners will make their own way there. But there's a difference between being inviting of Global Professional Gaming and positioning yourself above that, which (and I don't mean to offend anybody, I'm sorry if I do) I feel is the stance Kespa looks as though they have taken. They have been very critical of themselves with announcing their position to not be undermining of the global competitive scene, but they haven't positioned a stance with embracing it either; which just leaves me personally in an awkward place, thinking: Are they embracing Global Competition, or just acknowledging that it exists? Either outcome leads to a very different growth of e-sports, both of which the community can perceive to have a negative impact, but which is the lesser of two evils? EDIT: Just to add: I didn't mean the Korean league need to be inviting of foreigners, of course the foreigners have to earn their place, but I am afraid of the 'new' Korean leagues not embracing the Global scene. I don't want people to confuse Global and Foreign, as a global scene does and should involve the Korean scene. How dare Kespa treat foriegners like koreans and require them to EARN a pro gaming licence. Exactly, the GOM process to foreigners is cool and all but imagine if you are a Korean and some white guy gets an invitation to Code A and then proceeds to get utterly destroyed in the first round, it could have been one of the Code B Closet Gosus who had that spot! Another intriguing opinion, but the fact is (especially with the GOM process) that 'white guy' has actually earned his place there by performing against Code A Korean players in other notable global events. The foreign individuals have made a name for themselves competing against Code A players, doesn't that make them eligible to at least compete to be in Code A? Yes but the problem is that you're giving foreigners preferrential treatment. No korean would get those sweet bonuses, that is why it is a disgrace; not the pro players, but the league. Where's the preferential treatment? At MLG, Dreamhack or IPL Stephano beats Code A/Code S players and ranks highly in every event. Does that not make him eligible to at least compete to try and qualify for Code A or Code S? We were originally talking about Kespa. Proleague is Kespa's. Kespa should act the same in all honesty. Notable foreigners like Stephano, Naniwa, HuK, Idra and many others; Kespa should acknowledge these players that are of the same caliber as Code A/Code S players and should invited them to qualify for their league, if they don't qualify, fine, better luck next season. That's not a wrong thing to happen, in fact it looks pretty ideal.
Right now in BW they can if they want. Maybe you read some idiotic Kespa conspiracy on the sc2 forum which has lead to this confusing convo:/.
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I didn't expect this so soon and with such force. I assumed a more soft transition.
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Not exactly unexpected, but sad news for all BW-fans nevertheless 
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On May 03 2012 00:37 fabiano wrote:
Foreign tournaments invite koreans because it is known that overall they are the best players, and the audience wants to watch the best players battle it out.
I'm pretty sure Korea would love to have a foreigner in their league, as long as he is able to compete with the rest of the players with the same or better skills. What they want is not a league full of koreans, but a league full of skilled progamers who can actually provide games worth watching, therefore making their audience ratings grow.
MLG, DH and IPL are seen as inferior tournaments if compared to GSL. Why? Is it because it is full of foreigners? No, it's not because the color of their skin, but because the majority (note that not all) of the players are seen as less skilled than those at GSL.
If you want a truly global league, with the best players from all over the world, then you want something like WCG or that upcoming Blizzard World Championship (or something), where each region of the world gets a seed into the tournament. Unfortunately only koreans are the really good SC players, so WCG skillwise would be much less interesting than say OSL.
If OGN fucks up and add MLG/DH/IPL seeds, they would lose prestige I believe.
The idea isn't to seed the players, it's to invite them to try and qualify. The rest of your post is hazy, I would prefer not to get into an enveloping shitstorm.
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Double post, sincerest apologies.
On May 03 2012 00:37 TrainSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 00:35 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 03 2012 00:32 TrainSamurai wrote:On May 03 2012 00:31 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 03 2012 00:29 TrainSamurai wrote:
No. If I had my way he would have to go through qualifiers. Then again I'm not sure how GSL format even works, too confusing. Just saying if he wants to compete in a presteigeous tournament like Proleague anything less than passing qualifications is preferrential treatment in my book. Even Flash had to do it .
@ Polt comment, well he did go overseas didn't he?
On May 03 2012 00:26 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 03 2012 00:15 TrainSamurai wrote:On May 03 2012 00:13 SC_Ghost wrote:On May 03 2012 00:04 NexUmbra wrote:On May 02 2012 23:58 TrainSamurai wrote:On May 02 2012 22:48 SC_Ghost wrote:
[quote]
Perhaps you've interpreted my post in a way I didn't attempt it to be perceived, I take full responsibility for that and I hope you accept my apology.
But if we look at every Professional Gaming Competition that's considered of substantial, professional Merit (Such as MLG, IPL, GSL, DH, etc.) they are all inviting a global competition: MLG and IPL invites European and Asian players as well as their 'native' American players; DH does the same, and GSL too. It's established that way so that the global competitive scene grows, not each individual league/nation. It promotes growth across the board, which can only be a good thing.
I have no quarrels with Korea being the home of the best skilled players, it promotes Korean skill-level and makes an impression when a foreigner reaches that level, and like you said: the good enough foreigners will make their own way there. But there's a difference between being inviting of Global Professional Gaming and positioning yourself above that, which (and I don't mean to offend anybody, I'm sorry if I do) I feel is the stance Kespa looks as though they have taken.
They have been very critical of themselves with announcing their position to not be undermining of the global competitive scene, but they haven't positioned a stance with embracing it either; which just leaves me personally in an awkward place, thinking: Are they embracing Global Competition, or just acknowledging that it exists?
Either outcome leads to a very different growth of e-sports, both of which the community can perceive to have a negative impact, but which is the lesser of two evils?
EDIT: Just to add: I didn't mean the Korean league need to be inviting of foreigners, of course the foreigners have to earn their place, but I am afraid of the 'new' Korean leagues not embracing the Global scene. I don't want people to confuse Global and Foreign, as a global scene does and should involve the Korean scene. How dare Kespa treat foriegners like koreans and require them to EARN a pro gaming licence. Exactly, the GOM process to foreigners is cool and all but imagine if you are a Korean and some white guy gets an invitation to Code A and then proceeds to get utterly destroyed in the first round, it could have been one of the Code B Closet Gosus who had that spot! Another intriguing opinion, but the fact is (especially with the GOM process) that 'white guy' has actually earned his place there by performing against Code A Korean players in other notable global events. The foreign individuals have made a name for themselves competing against Code A players, doesn't that make them eligible to at least compete to be in Code A? Yes but the problem is that you're giving foreigners preferrential treatment. No korean would get those sweet bonuses, that is why it is a disgrace; not the pro players, but the league. Where's the preferential treatment? At MLG, Dreamhack or IPL Stephano beats Code A/Code S players and ranks highly in every event. Does that not make him eligible to at least compete to try and qualify for Code A or Code S? We were originally talking about Kespa. Proleague is Kespa's. Kespa should act the same in all honesty. Notable foreigners like Stephano, Naniwa, HuK, Idra and many others; Kespa should acknowledge these players that are of the same caliber as Code A/Code S players and should invited them to qualify for their league, if they don't qualify, fine, better luck next season. That's not a wrong thing to happen, in fact it looks pretty ideal. Right now in BW they can if they want. Maybe you read some idiotic Kespa conspiracy on the sc2 forum which has lead to this confusing convo:/.
Perhaps so, perhaps it's the way Kespa is portrayed. I still noticed something about Kespa's stance on the matter at the conference but my knowledge is only as good as what I'm told (reporters, tweets, etc.)
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On May 03 2012 00:39 SC_Ghost wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 00:37 fabiano wrote:
Foreign tournaments invite koreans because it is known that overall they are the best players, and the audience wants to watch the best players battle it out.
I'm pretty sure Korea would love to have a foreigner in their league, as long as he is able to compete with the rest of the players with the same or better skills. What they want is not a league full of koreans, but a league full of skilled progamers who can actually provide games worth watching, therefore making their audience ratings grow.
MLG, DH and IPL are seen as inferior tournaments if compared to GSL. Why? Is it because it is full of foreigners? No, it's not because the color of their skin, but because the majority (note that not all) of the players are seen as less skilled than those at GSL.
If you want a truly global league, with the best players from all over the world, then you want something like WCG or that upcoming Blizzard World Championship (or something), where each region of the world gets a seed into the tournament. Unfortunately only koreans are the really good SC players, so WCG skillwise would be much less interesting than say OSL.
If OGN fucks up and add MLG/DH/IPL seeds, they would lose prestige I believe. The idea isn't to seed the players, it's to invite them to try and qualify. The rest of your post is hazy, I would prefer not to get into an enveloping shitstorm.
And they're welcomed to. Kespa is not actively barring anyone. If stephano cannot be assed competing against Flash then that is his problem. That is how prestiege is builty, a top tournament should be able to attract competitors not the other way around.
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On May 02 2012 12:10 kakaman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 12:09 setzer wrote:On May 02 2012 12:06 kakaman wrote:On May 02 2012 12:04 canikizu wrote:On May 02 2012 12:02 kakaman wrote:On May 02 2012 11:58 BLinD-RawR wrote:On May 02 2012 11:55 ref4 wrote:
FLASH IS COMING its really sad that the only person people know is flash...there are a plethora of amazing players, yes flash is the best but the rest also amazing players. Meh, once they see Bisu, they won't be able to look away ![[image loading]](http://imgnews.naver.com/image/dailyesports/2011/07/21/20110721_5c2c729516353861c7ea885288733082.jpg) SC2 players aren't nearly as pretty We have someone called Mini Bisu... Imitators are never as good as the original. Besides, the Revolutionist invented Forge FFE, imagine what he can do for SC2... *cough* nal_rA Dang, I thought he did, or some variation of it?
Hehe. The bisu build is not only the forge FE. What he did against savior was more than just a fancy wall.
Nal_ra used walls way before bisu 3-0'ed savior
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EPT
