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Think twice before hitting post; this thread will be moderated for idiocy and useless posts. Consider this a warning. |
On May 02 2012 08:39 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 08:32 yeastiality wrote:On May 02 2012 08:31 r.Evo wrote:On May 02 2012 08:25 windsupernova wrote:On May 02 2012 08:22 r.Evo wrote:On May 02 2012 08:17 dUTtrOACh wrote:On May 02 2012 08:12 Arghmyliver wrote:On May 02 2012 08:07 babylon wrote:On May 02 2012 07:51 Vysage wrote:On May 02 2012 07:47 Vari wrote:
[quote]
"they only have meaning if you give them meaning"
you wanted me to only apply that to racial slurs? that seems really convenient don't you think?
words have socially accepted meaning (unless you want to say they don't, at all). you live in a society. deal with it.
ESPECIALLY deal with it when you earn money off of people watching you play starcraft in this society. folks are gonna react, folks are gonna believe things based off the language you choose to use. if you don't want them to say "hey destiny sure SOUNDS like a racist" maybe... don't use racial slurs? Dude the point is that we should try to move society to where these words don't offend people. We could stop so many problems if this gets initiated. Instead of explaining the obvious, work on shifting society towards those beliefs. I already live this way. If it's that easy for me to completely remove any offensive meaning from a word I hear or see, I can't see how it'd be so difficult for everyone else to. Just do it guys. Enjoy the shit that you watch and stop worrying about little things like this. Some people simply didn't and don't have it as easy as you do. Don't you think, instead of telling people to "man up" and to "grow a thicker skin" and to "remove meaning from words," it might just be a lot better to teach kids not to use slurs? Pretty sure the pain/emotional distress some words cause greatly outweighs the inconvenience of having to choose a different word. Some people simply cannot dissociate "the bully on the playground who outed me to the entire school and called me faggot" from the word "faggot." You can't just tell people to "stop being offended" by it; links between words and meanings go deeper than that, and certain associations can't be removed. As a generally unempathetic person, it strikes me as ironic that I'm saying this, but ... dude, have some empathy. :/ Why would that help? If the words are charged with that meaning because you forbid their use, you simply perpetuate the issue. What if you instead teach that words are just words and their meaning is entirely situational? I can't see how making the word taboo could possible help it be less of a problem. The word "gook" isn't in the process of being made taboo and isn't really very open to interpretation in the context it was used in. Guy with Asian sounding name cheeses you, you call him a gook. I don't see the other meanings I'm supposed to be able to draw from this... I mean, he did call that guy a "gook", right? Words are exactly that. Just words. Just like tools aren't good or bad, words aren't. ---> It doesn't really matter if he calls someone "faggot", "asshole", "nigger" or whatever. It's an insult directed at that person at that time unless someone can prove a racist intent. He's an insulting person and that's what he should be judged for.Not more, not less. Tools have certain uses, you pretending that a hammer is a screwdriver doesn't change the fact that the hammer has its history and design of uses that pin it to a certain role. So what? People have been killed with hammers, knives and guns. That doesn't make any of those inherently bad. What makes a murderer is the intention behind using the tool, not the tool itself. Alright, since you're going to debate this without studying it first, here we go... What is the original non-violent intention of the gun? Is it for opening beers? What about the nuclear bomb? What positive role could it ever be construed to have in some abstract sense? Now you're saying all violence is inherently bad? Is smacking someone on the head who threatens your wife a bad thing? Exactly the same for the nuclear bomb. Would it have been launched if every single person on the planet thought it was a bad thing to use it at that time? Some people thought it was a great idea. What you can and should judge is the intent that idea had. Not the "messenger" so to speak.
Instead of answering my questions you presented more hypotheticals that support your position. You also told me what I can and should judge, which is exactly what's wrong with this thread from the ground up. Quantic doesn't care when you tell them what they can and should judge. It doesn't matter how many words you write. That's just the reality of it.
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On May 02 2012 08:16 hmmm... wrote:
i don't understand those people who claim racial slurs aren't offensive anymore because they're no longer relevant in today's society. words contain meaning to any person to the extent that person is willing to give meaning to those words.
Fuck, there's that pain in my brain again... Resisting the urge to go on a killing spree...
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Well it looks like Destiny got temp banned
Destiny was just temp banned for 30 days by motbob.
That account was created on 2009-05-21 06:06:54 and had 190 posts.
Reason: There are two aspects to this ban.
The first has to do with the complete lack of respect that you have shown members of this community, including mods, during the discussion in the "Racial Slurs" thread. In that thread, if someone else's opinion did not correspond with your own, you seemed incapable of accepting that that opinion might have any merit at all. In addition, you used language and "4chan-isms" that would have gotten anyone banned many times over.
The second has to do with your opinion that words like "nigger" and "gook" are OK to use, as long as they are used in the correct context; that is, a non-racist context. This is a view that you repeatedly expressed in the thread, and one that you have expressed on other sites and on SC2 talk shows. It is an opinion that is incompatible with the values of this community.
To be clear, you are not being banned for holding that view, per se. The fact that you expressed it repeatedly on TL, and the manner in which you expressed it, is the reason for this ban.
Note to the TL community: this ban was made after a discussion involving multiple TL mods and admins. Though I am listed as the mod banning Destiny, it was a collective decision.
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On May 02 2012 08:34 McDutch wrote:
sick of those people getting offended by words and shit.. srsly? i've been called names aswell, everyone has ever had been called something.. why would you be offended? words don't hurt, and if they do hurt you, than you should just grow up.
When im going out, and someone calls me names, i laugh, and walk away, because i don't give a shit...
srsly people, grow some balls..
im not saying Destiny's behaviour is good, but let him be the person he is..
Looks like you're a little upset, or should I say offended? Maybe you should "grow up." Maybe all of the fully grown men on this website should "grow up." That is, everyone who is bothering to post on here is exhibiting some sort of emotional reaction or the other.
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On May 02 2012 08:29 Fischbacher wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 08:20 Calebcalebcaleb wrote:
I fail to see why this is important now. He has not changed suddenly to doing this. This is Steven's Internet Persona that has been going on for over 2 years. Are you so bored that you have to try and bring it up and make a big deal of it right now?
If you don't like what he says, do not watch his stream. Its very simple. No need to make posts about it on TL. The problem is that he is part of Quantic. What Destiny does on his stream reflects not just on him but also on people like NaNiwa, SaSe, Flo and their sponsors. Destiny isn't just a random streamer.
What you're neglecting is Quantic fully knew his personality when they picked him up. They knew of his personality and attitude which prevented many teams from wanting him. Additionally, I don't see how in the world you think that would reflect upon other team members. They have literally no say what happens to Destiny - they all have contracts, each person is a separate entity.
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On May 02 2012 08:35 memcpy wrote:
Destiny does not deserve to be featured on TL. Why does TeamLiquid endorse a player who acts like this?
Last time I was asked I was yelled at by staff to not click it if I didn't want to watch. I can't see them changing it.
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On May 02 2012 08:43 dUTtrOACh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 08:34 yeastiality wrote:On May 02 2012 08:33 dUTtrOACh wrote:On May 02 2012 08:22 r.Evo wrote:On May 02 2012 08:17 dUTtrOACh wrote:On May 02 2012 08:12 Arghmyliver wrote:On May 02 2012 08:07 babylon wrote:On May 02 2012 07:51 Vysage wrote:On May 02 2012 07:47 Vari wrote:On May 02 2012 07:42 Vysage wrote:
[quote]
Don't know why you have to get childish about it. The topic of discussion is racial slurs; no where did I say anything about words in general. "they only have meaning if you give them meaning" you wanted me to only apply that to racial slurs? that seems really convenient don't you think? words have socially accepted meaning (unless you want to say they don't, at all). you live in a society. deal with it. ESPECIALLY deal with it when you earn money off of people watching you play starcraft in this society. folks are gonna react, folks are gonna believe things based off the language you choose to use. if you don't want them to say "hey destiny sure SOUNDS like a racist" maybe... don't use racial slurs? Dude the point is that we should try to move society to where these words don't offend people. We could stop so many problems if this gets initiated. Instead of explaining the obvious, work on shifting society towards those beliefs. I already live this way. If it's that easy for me to completely remove any offensive meaning from a word I hear or see, I can't see how it'd be so difficult for everyone else to. Just do it guys. Enjoy the shit that you watch and stop worrying about little things like this. Some people simply didn't and don't have it as easy as you do. Don't you think, instead of telling people to "man up" and to "grow a thicker skin" and to "remove meaning from words," it might just be a lot better to teach kids not to use slurs? Pretty sure the pain/emotional distress some words cause greatly outweighs the inconvenience of having to choose a different word. Some people simply cannot dissociate "the bully on the playground who outed me to the entire school and called me faggot" from the word "faggot." You can't just tell people to "stop being offended" by it; links between words and meanings go deeper than that, and certain associations can't be removed. As a generally unempathetic person, it strikes me as ironic that I'm saying this, but ... dude, have some empathy. :/ Why would that help? If the words are charged with that meaning because you forbid their use, you simply perpetuate the issue. What if you instead teach that words are just words and their meaning is entirely situational? I can't see how making the word taboo could possible help it be less of a problem. The word "gook" isn't in the process of being made taboo and isn't really very open to interpretation in the context it was used in. Guy with Asian sounding name cheeses you, you call him a gook. I don't see the other meanings I'm supposed to be able to draw from this... I mean, he did call that guy a "gook", right? Words are exactly that. Just words. Just like tools aren't good or bad, words aren't. ---> It doesn't really matter if he calls someone "faggot", "asshole", "nigger" or whatever. It's an insult directed at that person at that time unless someone can prove a racist intent. He's an insulting person and that's what he should be judged for.Not more, not less. See, when I call you a stupid asshole, it may or may not hurt your feelings, even if my intention was to hurt your feelings. When I call you: Jew-killer, Adolf, Nazi, Kraut, Blockhead, Fritz, Germ or Hans Bitterman, while you may not be offended, BUT I just singled out every German who reads what I said and makes an impression of me based upon it. EDIT: missed a but Didn't you mostly just single out Nazi germans? You wouldn't want to confuse "Germans" with "Nazi Germans" because it would make you look like a fraud... My point was that a German might not be able to make a connection to the offensiveness of a racial slur directed at an Asian, and also that racial slurs are unjustifiable, no matter what your intent is. Slurs are historically rooted statements which were spawned during times of hatred. Many of the slurs for Germans happen come from a time when anti-German sentiment was at an all time high - WW2. Obviously they're out of place. They also represent assumptions and misconceptions about a person which they may find to be highly offensive, ie: "I'm not a nazi, why am I being called a Kraut?"
See, when I call you a stupid asshole, it may or may not hurt your feelings, even if my intention was to hurt your feelings. When I call you: Jew-killer, Adolf, Nazi, Kraut, Blockhead, Fritz, Germ or Hans Bitterman, while you may not be offended, BUT I just singled out every German who reads what I said and makes an impression of me based upon it.
No, when you call me all that I will think you're an idiot and move on with my life. Case closed. Now, if you'd call me a grammer-nazi I would actually take it as a compliment... =P
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On May 02 2012 08:42 windsupernova wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 08:37 ABagOfFritos wrote:
This thread is barely even about Destiny anymore. It's a bunch of kids talking about something they know nothing about. So, why don't you enlighten us all. This kind of condescending comments don't really add anything and don't really make you look as a knowledgeable person
The entirety of this thread can be summed up fairly easily.
Butthurt guy posts because of some mean comments from Destiny. Ok cool.
People accuse Destiny of being racist. Ok still kind of on track, nothing outrageous.
Basic argument from everyone becomes this: He can act how he wants on his own personal stream, but when he represents a team he shouldn't. Problem here is that it IS his own personal stream. Run from his own personal computer. Which is in his own home, so this argument is completely idiotic and contradicts itself.
After that, derailment to a bunch of kids saying racism is this, racism is that, and throwing around inferences about someone's thought processes on something he said. As I said, a bunch of kids talking about something they know nothing about.
If people are still hurt by words, then we'll never be able to get past racism. Bitching at someone to stop saying something you don't like is the very reason these things still happen. I hate to blame the victim, but stop being a little bitch.
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On May 02 2012 08:45 TitleRug wrote:Well it looks like Destiny got temp banned Show nested quote +Destiny was just temp banned for 30 days by motbob.
That account was created on 2009-05-21 06:06:54 and had 190 posts.
Reason: There are two aspects to this ban.
The first has to do with the complete lack of respect that you have shown members of this community, including mods, during the discussion in the "Racial Slurs" thread. In that thread, if someone else's opinion did not correspond with your own, you seemed incapable of accepting that that opinion might have any merit at all. In addition, you used language and "4chan-isms" that would have gotten anyone banned many times over.
The second has to do with your opinion that words like "nigger" and "gook" are OK to use, as long as they are used in the correct context; that is, a non-racist context. This is a view that you repeatedly expressed in the thread, and one that you have expressed on other sites and on SC2 talk shows. It is an opinion that is incompatible with the values of this community.
To be clear, you are not being banned for holding that view, per se. The fact that you expressed it repeatedly on TL, and the manner in which you expressed it, is the reason for this ban.
Note to the TL community: this ban was made after a discussion involving multiple TL mods and admins. Though I am listed as the mod banning Destiny, it was a collective decision.
I wonder if that will affect his featured streaming status?
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The fact is, it is his show. If Quantic has a problem with it, then they will take it up with him privately.
It's annoying when people rage so hard over a loss, but saying that we demand professionalism isn't something I think we can do from a privately owned show. Destiny isn't selling something that he isn't. Everyone knows what he's like, and it's up to them if they want to continue to watch or not.
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And people says i'm bad mannered because i never talk in game? I never talk in a Starcraft2 game. I don't defend anyone but this thread is just silly imo talk with Destiny if you have a problem with the way he types in game.
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On May 02 2012 08:47 zelah wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 08:35 memcpy wrote:
Destiny does not deserve to be featured on TL. Why does TeamLiquid endorse a player who acts like this? Last time I was asked I was yelled at by staff to not click it if I didn't want to watch. I can't see them changing it.
A great point was made by TL staff here. If you don't like it, fuck off. Nobody is asking you to watch him, let alone forcing you. Watch a different stream. Put your own language filters on if you can't handle a string of characters in a particular order when you are playing a game.
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On May 02 2012 08:42 pedostare wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 08:16 hmmm... wrote:
holy crap this thread is a mess.
i don't understand those people who claim racial slurs aren't offensive anymore because they're no longer relevant in today's society. words contain meaning to any person to the extent that person is willing to give meaning to those words. hence, some white people may be offended by "cracker" while others may not. you can't simply lay down your own opinion as law and claim racial slurs are no longer relevant in today's society.
on another note, it's sad that destiny has to continuing swearing and uttering racial slurs in order to attract attention. it's unfortunate that that is the only thing destiny has to offer (as opposed to actual gaming skill) and it's also unfortunate that there is actually a sizable consumer-base willing to entertain such immature displays by Destiny.
if you are a true fan of Destiny, you should probably be hoping for Destiny to improve in skill so that one day, the only way he is able to distinguish himself from other "pro" gamers won't be having to resort to petty swearing and racial slurs. Threads like this make me hate this community :/. Honestly, being angry is not a freaking excuse to be a tremendous bigot, especially when you have a sizable and impressionable group of viewers. If you are a bigot when you're angry, you're a bigot all the time. I am disgusted that so many people are actually defending him for behaving like this ALL THE TIME. What more does this man have to do to get people to understand that he is a raging, bigoted manchild?
Because Destiny's supporters are too hung up on "intent" being the sole proof of someone being a bigot.
You shoot someone, you're still going to prison. Even without "intent", it would be manslaughter (bar self-defense). He may or may not intent it, but he acted like a racist asshole. Good job Destiny, keep calling your Asian (Korean, if you want to be particular) viewers gooks. This is my last post in this thread. GG, you win.
/edit
Just noticed the mods' response. Much kudos. <3 TL
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It seems as though TL and Reddit have merged to become one with bias. Only a joke.
Seriously, how can someone take this seriously? It's Destiny, not some random that does this out of disrespect. This is part of his act he puts on for the stream and people shouldn't think twice about this.
I'm Korean, and calling me a gook won't rattle my heart. It's all in good fun, people need to stop being so seriousface.jpg and loosen up.
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On May 02 2012 08:39 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 08:32 yeastiality wrote:On May 02 2012 08:31 r.Evo wrote:On May 02 2012 08:25 windsupernova wrote:On May 02 2012 08:22 r.Evo wrote:On May 02 2012 08:17 dUTtrOACh wrote:On May 02 2012 08:12 Arghmyliver wrote:On May 02 2012 08:07 babylon wrote:On May 02 2012 07:51 Vysage wrote:On May 02 2012 07:47 Vari wrote:
[quote]
"they only have meaning if you give them meaning"
you wanted me to only apply that to racial slurs? that seems really convenient don't you think?
words have socially accepted meaning (unless you want to say they don't, at all). you live in a society. deal with it.
ESPECIALLY deal with it when you earn money off of people watching you play starcraft in this society. folks are gonna react, folks are gonna believe things based off the language you choose to use. if you don't want them to say "hey destiny sure SOUNDS like a racist" maybe... don't use racial slurs? Dude the point is that we should try to move society to where these words don't offend people. We could stop so many problems if this gets initiated. Instead of explaining the obvious, work on shifting society towards those beliefs. I already live this way. If it's that easy for me to completely remove any offensive meaning from a word I hear or see, I can't see how it'd be so difficult for everyone else to. Just do it guys. Enjoy the shit that you watch and stop worrying about little things like this. Some people simply didn't and don't have it as easy as you do. Don't you think, instead of telling people to "man up" and to "grow a thicker skin" and to "remove meaning from words," it might just be a lot better to teach kids not to use slurs? Pretty sure the pain/emotional distress some words cause greatly outweighs the inconvenience of having to choose a different word. Some people simply cannot dissociate "the bully on the playground who outed me to the entire school and called me faggot" from the word "faggot." You can't just tell people to "stop being offended" by it; links between words and meanings go deeper than that, and certain associations can't be removed. As a generally unempathetic person, it strikes me as ironic that I'm saying this, but ... dude, have some empathy. :/ Why would that help? If the words are charged with that meaning because you forbid their use, you simply perpetuate the issue. What if you instead teach that words are just words and their meaning is entirely situational? I can't see how making the word taboo could possible help it be less of a problem. The word "gook" isn't in the process of being made taboo and isn't really very open to interpretation in the context it was used in. Guy with Asian sounding name cheeses you, you call him a gook. I don't see the other meanings I'm supposed to be able to draw from this... I mean, he did call that guy a "gook", right? Words are exactly that. Just words. Just like tools aren't good or bad, words aren't. ---> It doesn't really matter if he calls someone "faggot", "asshole", "nigger" or whatever. It's an insult directed at that person at that time unless someone can prove a racist intent. He's an insulting person and that's what he should be judged for.Not more, not less. Tools have certain uses, you pretending that a hammer is a screwdriver doesn't change the fact that the hammer has its history and design of uses that pin it to a certain role. So what? People have been killed with hammers, knives and guns. That doesn't make any of those inherently bad. What makes a murderer is the intention behind using the tool, not the tool itself. Alright, since you're going to debate this without studying it first, here we go... What is the original non-violent intention of the gun? Is it for opening beers? What about the nuclear bomb? What positive role could it ever be construed to have in some abstract sense? Now you're saying all violence is inherently bad? Is smacking someone on the head who threatens your wife a bad thing? Exactly the same for the nuclear bomb. Would it have been launched if every single person on the planet thought it was a bad thing to use it at that time? Some people thought it was a great idea. What you can and should judge is the intent that idea had. Not the "messenger" so to speak. More than any case in the young history of e-sports the whole destiny case shows a few things: a) His viewers don't give a fuck. b) The sites who promote his stream in one way or another don't give a fuck. c) His team doesn't give a fuck. Now, if people would stand up and say "I think he's an idiot and I'm not going to watch his stream anymore / I'm going to put this up for discussion on the TL website feedback part / I'm not going to support his team that's clearly supporting him.", those are all valid and good ways to actually do something about it. That's how a community tells an individual that it doesn't tolerate his behaviour. Argueing whether he's racist or not (which neither side can win because there is no context to prove either) won't go anywhere. What you can argue and no one, not even himself, can dispute is that he's insulting people on his public stream. - That line of thought would lead to actual solutions instead of useless bickering.
This so much. Although Im not sure if his team and/or sponsors really dont give a fuck but I guess we ll find out after this witch-hunt. The only guy that deserves to be angry at this is the guy who got insulted. For most of us its just a stream with a guy that insults some other guy , dont like it - close it. THIS is the civilized way to "punish" someone you think is acting like an asshole. You ignore him. Dont support him , dont watch his stream , dont follow his tournament runs - and for the love of god stop discussing irrelevant things like if hes racist or a bigot or someshit , it doesnt CHANGE anything. The only thing 100% proven like you said is that he insulted someone , rest is unimportant or well not really unimportant but none of our bussiness.
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Destiny was just temp banned for 30 days by motbob.
That account was created on 2009-05-21 06:06:54 and had 190 posts.
Reason: There are two aspects to this ban.
The first has to do with the complete lack of respect that you have shown members of this community, including mods, during the discussion in the "Racial Slurs" thread. In that thread, if someone else's opinion did not correspond with your own, you seemed incapable of accepting that that opinion might have any merit at all. In addition, you used language and "4chan-isms" that would have gotten anyone banned many times over.
The second has to do with your opinion that words like "nigger" and "gook" are OK to use, as long as they are used in the correct context; that is, a non-racist context. This is a view that you repeatedly expressed in the thread, and one that you have expressed on other sites and on SC2 talk shows. It is an opinion that is incompatible with the values of this community.
To be clear, you are not being banned for holding that view, per se. The fact that you expressed it repeatedly on TL, and the manner in which you expressed it, is the reason for this ban.
Note to the TL community: this ban was made after a discussion involving multiple TL mods and admins. Though I am listed as the mod banning Destiny, it was a collective decision.
I'm pleased about TL stepping up. Thanks for trying to make a positive difference.
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On May 02 2012 08:50 ABagOfFritos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 08:47 zelah wrote:On May 02 2012 08:35 memcpy wrote:
Destiny does not deserve to be featured on TL. Why does TeamLiquid endorse a player who acts like this? Last time I was asked I was yelled at by staff to not click it if I didn't want to watch. I can't see them changing it. A great point was made by TL staff here. If you don't like it, fuck off. Nobody is asking you to watch him, let alone forcing you. Watch a different stream. Put your own language filters on if you can't handle a string of characters in a particular order when you are playing a game.
and yet he gets banned for having views that are 'incompatible with TL', while everyone making horrible juvenile arguments in this thread to justify racist behaviour walks away free
almost like it's...not a place suited to mature discussion
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On May 02 2012 08:47 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 08:43 dUTtrOACh wrote:On May 02 2012 08:34 yeastiality wrote:On May 02 2012 08:33 dUTtrOACh wrote:On May 02 2012 08:22 r.Evo wrote:On May 02 2012 08:17 dUTtrOACh wrote:On May 02 2012 08:12 Arghmyliver wrote:On May 02 2012 08:07 babylon wrote:On May 02 2012 07:51 Vysage wrote:On May 02 2012 07:47 Vari wrote:
[quote]
"they only have meaning if you give them meaning"
you wanted me to only apply that to racial slurs? that seems really convenient don't you think?
words have socially accepted meaning (unless you want to say they don't, at all). you live in a society. deal with it.
ESPECIALLY deal with it when you earn money off of people watching you play starcraft in this society. folks are gonna react, folks are gonna believe things based off the language you choose to use. if you don't want them to say "hey destiny sure SOUNDS like a racist" maybe... don't use racial slurs? Dude the point is that we should try to move society to where these words don't offend people. We could stop so many problems if this gets initiated. Instead of explaining the obvious, work on shifting society towards those beliefs. I already live this way. If it's that easy for me to completely remove any offensive meaning from a word I hear or see, I can't see how it'd be so difficult for everyone else to. Just do it guys. Enjoy the shit that you watch and stop worrying about little things like this. Some people simply didn't and don't have it as easy as you do. Don't you think, instead of telling people to "man up" and to "grow a thicker skin" and to "remove meaning from words," it might just be a lot better to teach kids not to use slurs? Pretty sure the pain/emotional distress some words cause greatly outweighs the inconvenience of having to choose a different word. Some people simply cannot dissociate "the bully on the playground who outed me to the entire school and called me faggot" from the word "faggot." You can't just tell people to "stop being offended" by it; links between words and meanings go deeper than that, and certain associations can't be removed. As a generally unempathetic person, it strikes me as ironic that I'm saying this, but ... dude, have some empathy. :/ Why would that help? If the words are charged with that meaning because you forbid their use, you simply perpetuate the issue. What if you instead teach that words are just words and their meaning is entirely situational? I can't see how making the word taboo could possible help it be less of a problem. The word "gook" isn't in the process of being made taboo and isn't really very open to interpretation in the context it was used in. Guy with Asian sounding name cheeses you, you call him a gook. I don't see the other meanings I'm supposed to be able to draw from this... I mean, he did call that guy a "gook", right? Words are exactly that. Just words. Just like tools aren't good or bad, words aren't. ---> It doesn't really matter if he calls someone "faggot", "asshole", "nigger" or whatever. It's an insult directed at that person at that time unless someone can prove a racist intent. He's an insulting person and that's what he should be judged for.Not more, not less. See, when I call you a stupid asshole, it may or may not hurt your feelings, even if my intention was to hurt your feelings. When I call you: Jew-killer, Adolf, Nazi, Kraut, Blockhead, Fritz, Germ or Hans Bitterman, while you may not be offended, BUT I just singled out every German who reads what I said and makes an impression of me based upon it. EDIT: missed a but Didn't you mostly just single out Nazi germans? You wouldn't want to confuse "Germans" with "Nazi Germans" because it would make you look like a fraud... My point was that a German might not be able to make a connection to the offensiveness of a racial slur directed at an Asian, and also that racial slurs are unjustifiable, no matter what your intent is. Slurs are historically rooted statements which were spawned during times of hatred. Many of the slurs for Germans happen come from a time when anti-German sentiment was at an all time high - WW2. Obviously they're out of place. They also represent assumptions and misconceptions about a person which they may find to be highly offensive, ie: "I'm not a nazi, why am I being called a Kraut?" Show nested quote +See, when I call you a stupid asshole, it may or may not hurt your feelings, even if my intention was to hurt your feelings. When I call you: Jew-killer, Adolf, Nazi, Kraut, Blockhead, Fritz, Germ or Hans Bitterman, while you may not be offended, BUT I just singled out every German who reads what I said and makes an impression of me based upon it. No, when you call me all that I will think you're an idiot and move on with my life. Case closed. Now, if you'd call me a grammer-nazi I would actually take it as a compliment... =P
Like I said, you may not be offended by hollow-headed, bigoted statements, but many Germans, including the German government wish to have no affiliation to the thoughts and ideals of Nazis and would be offended by those words, even if they were not the target. My point is that it is wrong for me, or anybody to go around and perpetuate such bullshit, and that it is right for any German to stand up for the fact that I'm wrong to say those things.
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On May 02 2012 08:52 yeastiality wrote:
and yet he gets banned for having views that are 'incompatible with TL', while everyone making horrible juvenile arguments in this thread to justify racist behaviour walks away free
almost like it's...not a place suited to mature discussion
No, how he expressed the views are different. Most people are "attempting" to use logic to provide a backing for their opinion. Destiny was not.
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On May 02 2012 08:48 dsousa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 08:45 TitleRug wrote:Well it looks like Destiny got temp banned Destiny was just temp banned for 30 days by motbob.
That account was created on 2009-05-21 06:06:54 and had 190 posts.
Reason: There are two aspects to this ban.
The first has to do with the complete lack of respect that you have shown members of this community, including mods, during the discussion in the "Racial Slurs" thread. In that thread, if someone else's opinion did not correspond with your own, you seemed incapable of accepting that that opinion might have any merit at all. In addition, you used language and "4chan-isms" that would have gotten anyone banned many times over.
The second has to do with your opinion that words like "nigger" and "gook" are OK to use, as long as they are used in the correct context; that is, a non-racist context. This is a view that you repeatedly expressed in the thread, and one that you have expressed on other sites and on SC2 talk shows. It is an opinion that is incompatible with the values of this community.
To be clear, you are not being banned for holding that view, per se. The fact that you expressed it repeatedly on TL, and the manner in which you expressed it, is the reason for this ban.
Note to the TL community: this ban was made after a discussion involving multiple TL mods and admins. Though I am listed as the mod banning Destiny, it was a collective decision. I wonder if that will affect his featured streaming status?
why ban him instead of just closing this thread?
seems like some TL mods/admins just want to attack Destiny (assuming this turns off his ability to stream on TL). should he have not explained his reasoning "repeatedly" or at all? he wouldn't have felt obliged to if the thread was just closed.
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EPT
