EPTGood shit.
The Sum of All Fears Mafia - Page 31
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Good shit. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Why are you pretending to care what I think when you've made it clear that my analyisis is a fucking joke and I'm useless as shit? OH I KNOW!!! I KNOW!!!! IT'S BECAUSE YOU'RE SCUM!!!! | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On March 30 2012 02:35 VisceraEyes wrote: No you don't, you think everything I've done has been worthless. Why are you pretending to care what I think when you've made it clear that my analyisis is a fucking joke and I'm useless as shit? OH I KNOW!!! I KNOW!!!! IT'S BECAUSE YOU'RE SCUM!!!! Why are you getting mad at someone you think is scum? Do your thing and find some more scum man. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
@ET I didn't forget you man. Your stuff is next on my mind. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 30 2012 02:35 VisceraEyes wrote: No you don't, you think everything I've done has been worthless. Why are you pretending to care what I think when you've made it clear that my analyisis is a fucking joke and I'm useless as shit? OH I KNOW!!! I KNOW!!!! IT'S BECAUSE YOU'RE SCUM!!!! I said it once, and I'll say it again: if you're a town aligned player, you'll do this. You won't do it for me, you'll do it for town. Being an effective town leader doesn't just mean herding people in your chosen direction with your iron fist of terror-- it also means picking your targets accurately, making good reads, being well-reasoned, and identifying and helping to build good cases. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 30 2012 02:39 VisceraEyes wrote: Don't lecture me scum. Do you disagree with the thrust of my argument? I think it's valid. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Lacking that, I felt the need to provide a strong voice for those who are less than willing to read and think to follow if they wished. Admittedly that came across as a little harsher than I'd intended, but there you have it. So yeah, you could say that I "disagree with the thrust of your argument". I also think you're scum. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 30 2012 02:42 VisceraEyes wrote: The fact of the matter is that there shouldn't BE a town-leader. The fact of the matter is that everyone should be reading the thread and coming to their own conclusions. Lacking that, I felt the need to provide a strong voice for those who are less than willing to read and think to follow if they wished. Admittedly that came across as a little harsher than I'd intended, but there you have it. So yeah, you could say that I "disagree with the thrust of your argument". I also think you're scum. Let me rephrase, because it would appear I haven't come across clearly. This is the thrust of my argument: On March 30 2012 02:38 Blazinghand wrote: I said it once, and I'll say it again: if you're a town aligned player, you'll do this. You won't do it for me, you'll do it for town. Do you disagree with this? I think I shouldn't have the argue you into providing analysis and reasoning behind your reads. I think you should come forwards with them yourself, before daybreak. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
I'm not playing with you in this state BH. Get over it. You were much more enjoyable as scum when you didn't have to be afraid of dying (Resistance 2) | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
I'm not doing shit overnight. If I'm still alive in the morning I'll push for your lynch. Until then anything I say is a waste because you're expending a terrible amount of pressure to discredit anything I say. Fuck that. I'd rather do it after I've survived the night. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On March 30 2012 01:25 MrZentor wrote: What case against me? I wasn't aware of this injustice! Can you take this seriously please? *sigh* @sloosh: good find, I didn't notice that first post of his regarding C_C. @BH,VE: Why the hell don't you guys do something more productive than this pointless bickering? Here, I made a program that exactly defines the last 3 pages: int main() { while(BH && VE==retarded) { BH: VE, be sure to post your reads before the deadline; VE: You are scum and I'll get shot tonight; BH: No you wont, you are useless; } return 0; } I'm going to uni right now, will be back after night ends, so hopefully see you later. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On March 30 2012 03:07 gonzaw wrote: BH: VE, be sure to post your reads before the deadline; VE: You are scum and I'll get shot tonight; BH: No you wont, you are useless; Also I'd just like to note that puppet VE's statement here is dumb. If he's gonna get shot tonight, HE SHOULD POST HIS ANALYSIS BEFORE THE DEADLINE. | ||
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MrZentor
United States1648 Posts
On March 30 2012 02:28 slOosh wrote: I would also like to bring up MrZentor as a lynch candidate. gonzaw has brought up some decent stuff in his case here. But I found him suspicious for different things so I'll address that now. The context is very important here. Please read the posts surrounding his instead of just the filter. This is written on page 12, after VE posted his initial case on CC and much after CC posted his first post containing the "accusation" and the flag. Then comes a couple of pages of discussion on gonzaw, bluelightz, ET and such. Nothing but one post from Nemesis, who comments the "lack of stance" as suspicious. Watch MrZentor's next post: There is nothing in the thread itself discussing the flag itself. There is no new public content in between his first post in which he says "people are reading too much into his initial post", and "his initial post looks suspicious". He agrees that the flag is really bizarre but did not mention it in his first post - taking a very neutral stance if you will. Then suddenly he agrees with VE that the flag is indeed bizarre, despite the fact that no one has talked about it. He also throws in the bogus last line, indicating that his subtle accusation is also evidence against him, despite the fact that "people are reading too much into his initial post". Verdict: MrZentor initially took a neutral stance, and after observation of how the town reacted to the case decided to help push it along. The lack of public thread discussion and the sharp contrast in his stance against CC suggests that he has talked to other people about it (read. scum buddies). Also his initial post suggesting town lynch lurkers after hitting a few scum is downright weird. I thought one thing and posted another. :/ I meant to say that people were reading too far into the flag on his first post. It was bizarre, but it really didn't tell us anything about C_C, so it was best to ignore it. It is important to note C_C's underhanded accusation of VE. It seemed like a scummy action. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Here are a few thoughts I haven't fully articulated yet in this thread. I'll begin with some thoughts on 3C and VE. Firstly, I wouldn't assume VE is scum just because of his scummy interactions with me. VE being "pissed off" seems a little fake to me, given how typically unfazed he is by this sort of thing. Although VE's town play is typified by caution and a lack of confidence in his own thoughtss gradually unfolding into a solid set of reads, I wouldn't assume he's scum just based on meta. That being said, as I'm sure you're aware, having him lead the town didn't go well. This is in part his fault, but it's also your fault for following him. Don't be afraid to challenge him, or anyone, in the thread. It doesn't make you scum to do so. Arguing is what makes us stronger. Secondly, 3C has done nothing as of the writing of this post to indicate he's town. If he lives through the night and isn't helpful D2, he should be lynched. If he's town, and he's truly done being "busy", you can and should anticipate something better out of him than his current sorry filter. There's some possibility of mod action as well, so that may change things. If he gets replaced out, that doesn't mean he wasn't lurking D1, however. Keep an eye on him, but don't let some single-minded wagon totally crush the town atmosphere like it did in student mafia Day 3. We must not repeat the town's mistake that game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=47#933 but only if he contributes. Otherwise, lynch him. SlOosh asked me to take a look at MrZ as a lynch candidate. I thought I'd save his question for later, so here it is: Here are my thoughts on MrZ: + Show Spoiler + 1) he begins by talking about policy lynches, then makes a list of reads that includes no scumreads whatsoever: + Show Spoiler + On March 27 2012 22:49 MrZentor wrote: Sorry, I have been dreaming. Anyways, here are a few of my thoughts. BH seems like a rash townie, who is fairly good a pressuring. However, he doesn't seem able to discern a noobie town from scum. JW seems like a noobie town, who did the wrong thing under pressure and is now realizing this. C_C looks a little suspicious because of his first post, but I feel that people are reading too far into that. VE seems to be promoting a good townie environment and being a lot calmer than BH. I am most afraid of him being scum, because if he were, I would never know. Those are a few thoughts on the biggest players. To be honest, I don't feel there is anybody worth analyzing yet, and there isn't much to analyze. 2) He continues with what I'd characterize as the most noncommittal case possible on ET: + Show Spoiler + On March 27 2012 23:34 MrZentor wrote: *cough* you're *cough* EchelonTee seems to be behaving rather erratically. He starts by being helpful and explaining how he would treat the game. He continues his good townie streak by questioning BH's play with reasons. He then starts to go crazy. He then transitions from crazy back to normal good townie in this post. He does this a few times throughout his posts. To be honest, I can't decide if this is town or mafia behavior. He could be a town who is mixing BH's and VE's styles. He could be scum trying to make it seem like he is helping town while sowing chaos. I'll let somebody else decide. :/ But take a look at how he ends that case. He does this a few times throughout his posts. To be honest, I can't decide if this is town or mafia behavior. He could be a town who is mixing BH's and VE's styles. He could be scum trying to make it seem like he is helping town while sowing chaos. I'll let somebody else decide. :/ This is a very long analysis to be non-committal. "I'll let somebody else decide" could be a noob move, but in my book this is another mark in the "points towards scum" column. Coupled with slOosh's case regarding MrZ's reasoning to hop onto the C_C wagon, I think there's a case to be made here. He's not my main man, though. I think we need to go after Sinensis. See my next post. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
What I'm really interested in, though, is what happened with C_C's wagon. It revealed to me that Sin is scum: The wagon didn't provide me much until I reached the part where Sin votes: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=18#356 On March 28 2012 11:51 Sinensis wrote: Back from work. So you just alignment claimed soviet for the second time? You are also grouping people based on Nationality. Only one class benefits from grouping based on Nationality, so indeed, gg Nazi. ##vote: Cyber_Cheese I don't like this at all. I think this is a completely empty/worthless reason for voting him. IF you look at it, there's no possible way C_C could know the nationality of people other than himself. Sure, he was soft-claiming SU again, but he also has some other named whirled about in his diagram in various locations. Now, to the untrained observer, it might seem like C_C is claiming that me, Nem, and 3C are US, whereas he, JE, and ET are SU. But anyone who recieved a townie PM or read the PM in the OP immediately knows that C_C has NO IDEA what anyone's alignment is but his. Those other names are just put in there randomly. So.. what is Sin talking about here? On March 28 2012 11:51 Sinensis wrote: You are also grouping people based on Nationality. Only one class benefits from grouping based on Nationality, so indeed, gg Nazi. Well, I took the time to ask him. On March 28 2012 11:56 Sinensis wrote: It is the combination of the flag and the graphic, and the fact that he is segregating names in his graphic based on nationality. Emphasis mine. Again, there's no way anyone could know anyone's nationality. What's Sin talking about? This in particular isn't a reason to think C_C is scum. Sure, the fact that he personally has been softclaiming SU, and has been seen as "align-fishing", that's a reason. But the fact that he's "sorting people"? That doesn't make sense at all. I press further: On March 28 2012 12:00 Sinensis wrote: Mafia wins if they kill every citizen of one nationality. Dividing reads by nationality supports that agenda. WHAT?? How? On March 28 2012 12:12 Sinensis wrote: C_C, the "soviet scientist's," posts would have me beg to differ. This doesn't even make sense! This was C_C talking about himself! How could he know any of these people's alignment?? On March 28 2012 12:20 Sinensis wrote: The flag and writing "me" in the soviet side of the graphic was flavor too, right? Have all your posts been flavor only? Maybe we should all give you a clean slate and unvote you since I seem to have voted based on something you posted only for flavor. On March 28 2012 12:27 Sinensis wrote: I consider myself reasonable and I have a read on his alignment. I think he's a nazi. Based on votes, 5 other people thing he's a nazi. Again, this is all based on the LONE guy who softclaimed a nationality in the thread. Sinensis isn't saying "C_C is suspicious because he soft-claimed a nationality, and he's not scumhunting." -- he's saying that C_C somehow has reads on other player's nationalities and is revealing them to his scumbuddies in the thread. Sinensis isn't bringing up some reasonable argument, the argument that all the town players would be convinced by. I keep on pressing, even, and he completely diverts to some unrelated post: + Show Spoiler + On March 28 2012 12:48 Sinensis wrote: Not that arguing with you has produced results for anyone else that has tried, but is this the anaysis post you are referring to? + Show Spoiler + On March 27 2012 15:34 Blazinghand wrote: I daresay my logic is largely non-ridiculous. It may appear ridiculous to you, but god does not play dice with the universe. Humor me a moment, and let me seduce you with my lascivious arguments. A) Johnnywup's initial "pressure" on me was actually rather half-assed and non-comittal. I found his statement that "scum wouldn't play this bad" (or equivalent) to be an anti-town statement. B) I call him out in a typically aggressive fashion. He responds in this way: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=9#171 This is generally a bad post. I really don't like this particular section: I think any marginally experienced player, or even someone who sits down and thinks about how mafia works should realize that bad logic being posted in the thread DOES hurt the town. as a town player, you want to avoid doing this. As a scum player, you are happy when you see this. bad logic hurts the town. it is anti town, then. And other than these two posts, he has had a generally underwhelming filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686&user=99700 "But, blazinghand, most of JW's stuff wasn't even there during your initial accusation! what was the deal there?" Admittedly, my first post in which I voted him was grasping slightly at straws. this town is silent and there was basically no analysis happening. I needed to get things rolling. His utterly catastrophic responses to me after voting him have made me realize that this guy is scum, and deserves to be lynched. Anybody who examines his filter can look and see that there is something amiss. this is now how a town player would play. I stand by my vote, for new reasons that are stronger than the ones for which it was initially made. The evidence is there. all you need to do is open your eyes. I redded the part I need to comment on, not because I am speculating you are Soviet but just because there is a lot of other formatting in this post. Your argument against johnny is that bad logic hurts the town and he said otherwise. You say bad logic hurts the town and is thus anti town again in this post. There's two examples of your belief that "bad logic hurts the town and is thus anti town." Well maybe you could comment on some of your own bad logic. Or do you need me to go back and quote just about every post you made in the beginning to remind you? My point is the case you are using against johnnywup works better on you than it does him, and that if "bad logic" is the criteria you are going to use to place your vote, maybe you ought to vote yourself. So, to summarize: Sinensis gives a completely nonsense reason for why he voted C_C, and defends it only by diverting my pressure and dodging my questions. nothing he says makes any sense. at all. He proceeds to lurk and only comes back to the thread for a few one-liners without followup and posts this: On March 29 2012 13:45 Sinensis wrote: Maybe I am being overly simplistic, but I think we should lynch Blazinghand because I do not believe all 4 scum would vote for the same townie when it was certain the townie was dying anyway. Which I, of course, personally believe to be trash. ------ So, in summary, I'm sure Sinensis is scum. Judging by the way he voted C_C, and his reasoning for voting C_C, and the way he responded to my questioning, I find this to be very likely. It's also worth noting that he and VE soft defend each other a once, but it could easily be this case with VE being town as well, so it can't be said that it's a scumtell. Still, read through Sinensis explanation for his C_C vote and his response to my pressure. It makes NO SENSE AT ALL. It started here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=18#356 Sinensis is scum. Read his filter, and his post on C_C, and his reasoning. It will reveal the truth. + Show Spoiler [full list of wagon links] + VE starts the wagon, as we remember, with a case based on the flag post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=10#197 Zelblade is follows up shortly: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=12#223 Bluelightz is next: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=16#303 VE moves off C_C to ET: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=16#312 Bluelightz follows him minutes later: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=16#317 Bluelightz then moves quickly back: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=17#327 VE moves back 10 minutes later: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=17#332 JW moves from ET to VE: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=17#333 Sin votes: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=18#356 SlOosh hops on: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=20#384 VE makes his "town cred" post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=23#453 Froggy votes: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=23#458 MrZ's vote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=24#463 ET's vote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=25#485 Gonzaw's vote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=25#487 3C's vote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=26#506 | ||
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