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Hello my fellow TLers.
Due to a lot of people going completely off topic, and nit picking at every single word I write and bitching at it, I decided to simply summarize my problem. I removed the OP because this thread has gone way off topic. Below is the problem I am having.
-My gf and I are in our mid twenties working and dated for about 5 years.
-I am under pressure of giving her assurance of marriage very soon. I have postponed this long enough.
-She wants to marry me but I am younger and I am afraid if I am making a premature decision on getting married. I love her but I have not lived long enough to have the actual knowledge of how other people are like. As I have known only people from school work, church, people from my old part time jobs and etc, I am asking if I should go with my feeling( which could be too rushed and I have fear that I am making this decision prematurely) or if I should wait til I'm older to see things more clearly.
I need advice from people around my age or older, who has been in similar situations.
Thanks,
 
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if you are happy with her TRUST ME the grass isn't greener bro, I was there and opted for the break up option and i regret it every day
I dated my ex for 4 years then we were thinking of getting married but i chose to move away with the thought of me being able to "be free to do whatever i wanted" ...yeah that didn't end so great and here i am now with nothing but a small apartment and video games to keep me from going crazy
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On March 27 2012 11:57 ExceeD_DreaM wrote:I want to make a choice soon, for her sake. She is older than me and I don’t want to take away anymore from her precious time. I have already made up my mind inside that I will have to break up, but this is really difficult 
Go with your gut feeling. The last thing you want is to revisit these thoughts/feelings but 10-15 years older and with 3 kids. Then you ll really feel trapped.
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Disclaimer: I really hate to advise on these sorts of things, since it's a huge decision for your life; if you decide to take my advice it will mean that I am directly and morally responsible for whatever that may result from you taking that decision. So that being said, please take my advice open-mindedly and with a grain of salt.
In my opinion what you should do is ask yourself if you could ever find a girl whose personality you could fit with as well as you do with this one's. Do you think it would be easy for you to get together with or even find a girl that meets your criteria for beauty and personality as well as this one does? Could another girl ever make you as happy as this one does? Could you imagine raising a family with a partner other than her and grow old with her? If you answered yes to all of them then it's up to you to decide if you really want to break up with her, there are advantages to this as you outlined in your blog, as well as disadvantages. If no, I think that you should stay with the partner you have now, since your shared love seems to be really quite strong, and the disadvantages in the long run could hurt you and her a lot more and be more severe overall.
Edit: And in general, If you want my personal opinion, I think I sympathize with what Sega said.
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On March 27 2012 11:57 ExceeD_DreaM wrote:
I have also respected her opinion of no sex before marriage, which must count for something that we have really had a serious and relationship full of respect (This is too hard and I advise young men going into long term relationship, if your girlfriend doesn't wanna have sex with you, please enjoy your life to the fullest before going out with her... this is too much pain).
Not only good advice, but you sir are a better man than most. Honestly if you've made it this far..ask yourself if you'd be willing to do that for anyone else and if the answer is no I think you found your girl.
Best of luck with your decision.
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Think of it purely objectively. You say you want to break up to experience the 'greener grass.' What is it another partner could potentially offer you that your current one does not? Never mind the amount of time it may take you to find said partner, or the risk that you may never find such a person.
This advice is coming from a guy who was/is in exactly your position, with a girlfriend (now wife) 2 years older at the same age, dating the same amount of time.
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It's always a conundrum in these types of situations. I've come to a theory that seems to explain the misfortunes and issues held in relationships, but bear with me as I've never really articulated it in such a way.
Everyone in a new relationship is overwhelmed with the chemicals associated with the interactions and new things felt (especially for younger people) that come from this new partnership.
As such, in these new relationships, unless there are clear red flags in actions and statements of the significant other that you can't handle, the newness and your approach will be to keep things kosher, and to smooth things out, whether things annoy you a little or not. Now clearly, there are those that have no tolerance, so not all new relationships will be fight-free for the early portions of it, but it's a general consensus nonetheless.
Now back to my point and theory; everyone has a baseline, as I like to call it. There is a baseline in regards to your values, beliefs and actions. In a new relationship, your baseline will become altered by however much is needed to deviate in order to keep things on the up and up. The issue that arises in young couples (or sheltered individuals), is that sometimes, their base isn't fully established and developed yet because of the inexperience factor.
This brings up the first issue. As you become more experienced and knowledgeable about your feelings, and how your values and beliefs change or remain the same over time, your ability to keep things smooth in the relationship depends on where they fit into your baseline. You may find that your natural tendencies are constantly at odds with your significant other, and you have to keep deviating from your baseline to avoid a fight. This is a clear sign that there will be problems in your future.
The next step, is that couples that experience turbulence will try and work it out in such a way that one of them has to change, or that they have to be a little more conscious of what's said, or what is done by one another. Whether this works or not, depends on how much deviation is or has occurred. The best way to explain the theory, and to support it is that no one can change. Absolutely not. What change is, no matter what is changing, is a temporary deviation from your baseline. Some people can keep it up for 1 month, some for 10 years. The key point is that everyone will arrive back at their baseline. (This is where mid-life crisis comes from, and seemingly normal people just up and "changing." No, all they did was resort back to being themselves)
If you have to make a pretty decent deviation in your baseline, whether you swear too much, or you leave the toilet seat up, or how you would raise your children; you will come crashing back down to your baseline, or risk some type of mental issue. This arrival back to your baseline, and an attempt to keep things going, will result in your unhappiness manifesting itself in undesirable ways. Whether that means mental and psychological issues, or cheating, or dangerous activities, the result remains the same.
And as much as I don't wish to cause this thread to turn into a silly debate about religious issues, no sex before marriage is a lot of people's undoing. The naive and conscious stance that sex doesn't matter, or should be special with the one person you're going to marry, and that there are other things in life to be committed and content with, has no bearing on your biological imperative. Without knowing your sexual compatibility (and no, going through it together doesn't work, some people just are not compatible in the bedroom), there is a real risk of future problems because one of you is likely to be unsatisfied.
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On March 27 2012 12:14 Sega92 wrote:
if you are happy with her TRUST ME the grass isn't greener bro, I was there and opted for the break up option and i regret it every day
I dated my ex for 4 years then we were thinking of getting married but i chose to move away with the thought of me being able to "be free to do whatever i wanted" ...yeah that didn't end so great and here i am now with nothing but a small apartment and video games to keep me from going crazy
I understand what you are saying. Were you near my age as well?
On March 27 2012 12:22 dazed wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 11:57 ExceeD_DreaM wrote:I want to make a choice soon, for her sake. She is older than me and I don’t want to take away anymore from her precious time. I have already made up my mind inside that I will have to break up, but this is really difficult Go with your gut feeling. The last thing you want is to revisit these thoughts/feelings but 10-15 years older and with 3 kids. Then you ll really feel trapped.
This is what I am really afraid of. There is a Korean word 늦바람 meaning late breeze. This is what my friends are afraid of as well.
On March 27 2012 12:24 PolskaGora wrote:
Disclaimer: I really hate to advise on these sorts of things, since it's a huge decision for your life; if you decide to take my advice it will mean that I am directly and morally responsible for whatever that may result from you taking that decision. So that being said, please take my advice open-mindedly and with a grain of salt.
In my opinion what you should do is ask yourself if you could ever find a girl whose personality you could fit with as well as you do with this one's. Do you think it would be easy for you to get together with or even find a girl that meets your criteria for beauty and personality as well as this one does? Could another girl ever make you as happy as this one does? Could you imagine raising a family with a partner other than her and grow old with her? If you answered yes to all of them then it's up to you to decide if you really want to break up with her, there are advantages to this as you outlined in your blog, as well as disadvantages. If no, I think that you should stay with the partner you have now, since your shared love seems to be really quite strong, and the disadvantages in the long run could hurt you and her a lot more and be more severe overall.
Edit: And in general, If you want my personal opinion, I think I sympathize with what Sega said.
Thank you for your advice. This is something I have thought of over and over. I totally agree with your opinion. She would make a great wife and I can totally imagine having a family together. However, it is also true I have never met anyone else. It is almost like a peer pressure how close friends and family urges me to experience more in life, and they think I can do much more. My parents have always given me great life advice that I can trust on, but this is something where their advice doesn't really move me enough. Afterall, I am not a child anymore. I do see advantages and disadvantages, but I don't think I have seen enough in life to really foresee that.
On March 27 2012 12:26 Battleaxe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 11:57 ExceeD_DreaM wrote:
I have also respected her opinion of no sex before marriage, which must count for something that we have really had a serious and relationship full of respect (This is too hard and I advise young men going into long term relationship, if your girlfriend doesn't wanna have sex with you, please enjoy your life to the fullest before going out with her... this is too much pain).
Not only good advice, but you sir are a better man than most. Honestly if you've made it this far..ask yourself if you'd be willing to do that for anyone else and if the answer is no I think you found your girl. Best of luck with your decision.
Thank you sir. It is something I regret but also at the same time, it prevented me from going down the manwhore path, so I thank her for that. (I came into University anticipating all the parties and whatnot... only to meet my demise)
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On March 27 2012 12:27 WaveofShadow wrote:
Think of it purely objectively. You say you want to break up to experience the 'greener grass.' What is it another partner could potentially offer you that your current one does not? Never mind the amount of time it may take you to find said partner, or the risk that you may never find such a person.
This advice is coming from a guy who was/is in exactly your position, with a girlfriend (now wife) 2 years older at the same age, dating the same amount of time.
Thank you for your opinion WaveofShadow. That is an answer I want to seek, as I have not known any other females in depth. I can say that I've seen many girls that are prettier, but that is really objective. She is pretty, as per many people, but she is more of attractive person type, while I am more of a pretty boy type without much attractiveness. I did request and talked with her many times that she try doing yoga more to be more fit, but she is too busy to focus on that as well, which discourages me, as I work out regularly now. It is also shallow to make a decision based on that, so I think I will leave that out. If I wasn't attracted to her, I wouldn't even have dated her in the first place. But I do sometimes get attracted to other women physically, although I never engage or talk to them.
In personality, future, and how right we go together, I must say it will be hard to find someone who will do marginally better. We don't see many things wrong, but I don't know perhaps there can be many things that can be done better.
Did you experience your life to the fullest before marrying your wife? I am sure as a man, you have experienced the same struggles as I have. I envy your courage and decision. I wish I can do it like you, but I guess I am still a bit immature. I will have to ponder a bit more, but I wanna hear more from you. If you find the publicity uncomfortable, please do reach me by PM!
On March 27 2012 12:32 divito wrote:
It's always a conundrum in these types of situations. I've come to a theory that seems to explain the misfortunes and issues held in relationships, but bear with me as I've never really articulated it in such a way.
Everyone in a new relationship is overwhelmed with the chemicals associated with the interactions and new things felt (especially for younger people) that come from this new partnership.
As such, in these new relationships, unless there are clear red flags in actions and statements of the significant other that you can't handle, the newness and your approach will be to keep things kosher, and to smooth things out, whether things annoy you a little or not. Now clearly, there are those that have no tolerance, so not all new relationships will be fight-free for the early portions of it, but it's a general consensus nonetheless.
Now back to my point and theory; everyone has a baseline, as I like to call it. There is a baseline in regards to your values, beliefs and actions. In a new relationship, your baseline will become altered by however much is needed to deviate in order to keep things on the up and up. The issue that arises in young couples (or sheltered individuals), is that sometimes, their base isn't fully established and developed yet because of the inexperience factor.
This brings up the first issue. As you become more experienced and knowledgeable about your feelings, and how your values and beliefs change or remain the same over time, your ability to keep things smooth in the relationship depends on where they fit into your baseline. You may find that your natural tendencies are constantly at odds with your significant other, and you have to keep deviating from your baseline to avoid a fight. This is a clear sign that there will be problems in your future.
The next step, is that couples that experience turbulence will try and work it out in such a way that one of them has to change, or that they have to be a little more conscious of what's said, or what is done by one another. Whether this works or not, depends on how much deviation is or has occurred. The best way to explain the theory, and to support it is that no one can change. Absolutely not. What change is, no matter what is changing, is a temporary deviation from your baseline. Some people can keep it up for 1 month, some for 10 years. The key point is that everyone will arrive back at their baseline. (This is where mid-life crisis comes from, and seemingly normal people just up and "changing." No, all they did was resort back to being themselves)
If you have to make a pretty decent deviation in your baseline, whether you swear too much, or you leave the toilet seat up, or how you would raise your children; you will come crashing back down to your baseline, or risk some type of mental issue. This arrival back to your baseline, and an attempt to keep things going, will result in your unhappiness manifesting itself in undesirable ways. Whether that means mental and psychological issues, or cheating, or dangerous activities, the result remains the same.
And as much as I don't wish to cause this thread to turn into a silly debate about religious issues, no sex before marriage is a lot of people's undoing. The naive and conscious stance that sex doesn't matter, or should be special with the one person you're going to marry, and that there are other things in life to be committed and content with, has no bearing on your biological imperative. Without knowing your sexual compatibility (and no, going through it together doesn't work, some people just are not compatible in the bedroom), there is a real risk of future problems because one of you is likely to be unsatisfied.
Thank you divito. Very logical way to put this, and I really appreciate your input on this. I don't know if I fully agree with no one will change, but I must say deep down, some things that I thought were changed have not. But at the same time, many things have as well. For instance, I was an arrogant fool who always made a joke of fat or unfashionable people (quietly to my gf of course) when I was younger. She hated that, and helped me not to look at the world such way. Some things like that, I have opened my eyes more to become mature.
At the same time, my desire to enjoy my life to the fullest has been forced down beneath my consciousness but it has always been there. It feels like whatever I do, it will always be there, haunting me over and over.
Religion is another issue. I was a Christian, but I see the world too logically, and I had to step away from it. She is a firm believer, and we are different to the extent of believing "Evolution vs Creation". This is something I could not understand (that someone could possibly not believe in evolution). About sex before marriage, for her, it is more about it being meaningful with your husband rather than religious reason. I fully agree with your argument that people need to experience beforehand incase some things are wrong. She sort of agrees, but there is no way she will open up in this situation. If things work out well, I would have given her enough assurance of the future.
Our baseline seems to be very similar. We didn't have to change too much to fit into one another, we had same idea about seeing the world, how to live a good life, how to treat other people (some part of this I had to change), raising a child, social life, and such.
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Well none of us know enough information to really give you a good answer. But I personally got married at age 32 and I am glad I didn't do it any younger. If anything I would have liked to wait another year or two.
I also think you would be crazy to marry someone without sex first. If those are your values then I guess it's cool. I'd be worried that she might have a low sex drive -- I mean how else can you date someone for 5 years and not get it on with them? If she just isn't that interested in sex then the next 60 years of your life together may be somewhat frustrating.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
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I don't consider maturing in the same way as change. Things are meant to develop and mature, and it's slightly different than in the context that I'm referring to "change." But that's neither here nor there.
As for the rest of your response, I would then pose a question: are you able to completely act natural around her? How often, if ever, do you have to hold back something you might say or do because you fear her reaction to it? Once a day? A few times a week? Always? Never?
You're in a similar spot to one I was in, that I was in just over a year ago or so. I had a girlfriend of close to four years when we finally broke up. In the same sense, I wasn't fully experienced in relationships. I'd been part of one night stands, and escapades and little blips of relationships, but she was the first real girlfriend that I told my family about, and did real relationship-type things with.
Things seemed to be fine, we moved in together fairly quick, and were starting out on our life together. Even after three years, we had been discussing marriage, and kids, etc... She was someone that I could definitely see marrying, for a number of qualities that she possesses and that I wanted in a wife. However, where my baseline theory came from, was my own experience and analyzing all my friends and their relationships, and the studying I've done throughout my life. I started to notice things.
After these three years, things started to annoy me more, things I had shrugged off in the past about her opinions, or her behaviour, whether on her own or in relation to mine. Things I might have thought I would get over. I started to notice that everything I was naturally used to doing, would now be replaced with something else. I would avoid my true feelings, or acts, to simply avoid a fight, or to not provoke an uncomfortable situation.
I was also keen on getting myself into better shape than I was in. This was something we differed on, as she didn't have as much interest in sticking with something. Things slowly compounded themselves in such a way that I wasn't very happy, I was looking to improve my life and my health, and the sex, while alright, was not up to the level I had experienced. All these things snowballed into me realizing that it wouldn't work.
Once presented with the aspect of a breakup, she was taken aback because I had never really expressed these things in person to her. And upon me listing the reasons, she advocated that we could work on it, and that she could change so that things could work out. Being of the opinion, and the theory I have, I told her that I didn't want to force that on her. Even if she was able to change, it would be temporary, and that's not even something I would want to do to a loved one. She shouldn't have to change or disrupt her natural behaviour to make a relationship work. Both parties should be naturally who they are, and be compatible in that sense.
We had to live together for awhile before she could move back home, and the night she finally left, it really hit me hard, realizing that it was really over and she wouldn't be coming back. Over time though, I really started feeling better about the situation and so did she. As much as we loved each other, and would have wanted it to work, we are different people, and it is for the better.
I'm now in a new relationship (four months), and the process starts over again.
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Thank you for your opinion WaveofShadow. That is an answer I want to seek, as I have not known any other females in depth. I can say that I've seen many girls that are prettier, but that is really objective. She is pretty, as per many people, but she is more of attractive person type, while I am more of a pretty boy type without much attractiveness. I did request and talked with her many times that she try doing yoga more to be more fit, but she is too busy to focus on that as well, which discourages me, as I work out regularly now. It is also shallow to make a decision based on that, so I think I will leave that out. If I wasn't attracted to her, I wouldn't even have dated her in the first place. But I do sometimes get attracted to other women physically, although I never engage or talk to them.
In personality, future, and how right we go together, I must say it will be hard to find someone who will do marginally better. We don't see many things wrong, but I don't know perhaps there can be many things that can be done better.
Did you experience your life to the fullest before marrying your wife? I am sure as a man, you have experienced the same struggles as I have. I envy your courage and decision. I wish I can do it like you, but I guess I am still a bit immature. I will have to ponder a bit more, but I wanna hear more from you. If you find the publicity uncomfortable, please do reach me by PM!
What do you mean by 'experienced my life to the fullest?' That's honestly a very loaded question. From the looks of it, and from the direction you keep steering, it appears as though you mean sexually/physically.
I suppose in that sense, you could say that I did not experience life to the fullest in that way, and there are always some regrets in that sense. But once again, I must always remind myself that even though there may be other women in my life who are more attractive to me at any given point in time, be it sexually, mentally, or spiritually, this is someone who must be compatible with me on an entirely different level. She must encompass all of the aforementioned things to a degree, and the entire package must somehow be weighed above any other woman I could potentially see myself with. My wife is all of those things and more, and I would not have it any other way.
You will always have 'what-if' moments and self-doubt, but I urge you to think about your potential future and REALLY decide for yourself if 'living your life to the fullest' is worth losing what may or may not be one of the best things that will ever happen to you. Yes, many a risk is taken in that decision, but that is what life is all about.
I say again, try and look at this decision as absolutely and objectively as you can, and really consider the risks, the pros and cons of what you may or may not decide to do. Ultimately you want to do what is best for you, which is understandable; no decision can be too shallow in that regard, but do your best not to think of it from purely a 'present-tense' point of view, rather consider your past together and future as well.
I hope all of this useless rambling can help you with your monumental decision in some way. I won't get into details about myself here, but if you are extremely curious and it may somehow help you, send me a PM and maybe I can help you a little more.
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From what you described, go for it, don't hesitate !
As someone said, the grass isn't greener.
My wife is 3 years older than I, but it does not matter.
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Personally, I always facepalm when I hear about this no sex before marriage business. Insert South Park meme: if you don't have sex before marriage, you're gonna have a bad time.
Also, not to be a negative nancy, but if she doesn't believe in evolution, that doesn't bode for the future methinks. Assuming she's not simply ignorant of the matter and has actually considered the facts and rejected them, to me, that indicates someone who is narrow-minded, stubborn, inflexible, and/or overly religious.
Honestly, my advice to you would be to break up. Judging from what you've said in your posts, I think you'll regret it for the rest of your life if you don't give yourself a chance to live a little now.
I went through a similar situation in university; dated a girl for three years, started thinking about marriage, then broke up for various reasons. A year later I was wondering what I ever saw in her, despite the fact that she was pretty and all that, and I was much happier. Five years later, I'm traveling the world and having a great time. She's getting married this year, living on the same street as her parents, and has a government job that she'll likely keep for the rest of her life. I have no regrets.
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Since when is getting married young looked downed upon lol.
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Also, not to be a negative nancy, but if she doesn't believe in evolution, that doesn't bode for the future methinks. Assuming she's not simply ignorant of the matter and has actually considered the facts and rejected them, to me, that indicates someone who is narrow-minded, stubborn, inflexible, and/or overly religious.
Umm...so if you don't believe in "evolution" it means they're stubborn?
Sorry, but um, a lot of people believe in different things, and not believing in evolution doesn't make them any worse...
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from the feeling of this blog, you don't love her. you should break up.
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The typical “Finding the grass that is greener” thought is really haunting me.
The saying is "The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence" and unless i'm mistaken that's the exact opposite of what you meant.
It's more to do with perception, jealousy and a play on the ambiguity of "other side of the fence" to those on the other side of the fence where the grass is supposedly greener, your grass looks greener, and so on, and that seems like a pretty good summation of what you're experiencing, it's a cautionary tale about not throwing away what you have just to get something that someone else has because the grass is always greener on the other side, regardless of which side you end up on.
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I think what you really need to do after you get your advice is to take a week or so by yourself away from any and all peer pressure. Think it over and then come back with your decision. The way it is right now is that you are getting tugged and stretched in different directions. I think if you consider the advice and give yourself the time you need you will come to a decision you won't regret. it also enables you to really consider how you feel and how important this person is to you (like rest of your life important).
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On March 27 2012 12:14 Sega92 wrote:
if you are happy with her TRUST ME the grass isn't greener bro, I was there and opted for the break up option and i regret it every day
I dated my ex for 4 years then we were thinking of getting married but i chose to move away with the thought of me being able to "be free to do whatever i wanted" ...yeah that didn't end so great and here i am now with nothing but a small apartment and video games to keep me from going crazy
I understand what you are saying. Were you near my age as well?
actually I was 21 at the time even younger than you iirc and thats why i felt that i had so much ahead of me in life, I would rather take a boring life with the girl than an "exciting and free life" on my own
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EPT
