Due to a lot of people going completely off topic, and nit picking at every single word I write and bitching at it, I decided to simply summarize my problem. I removed the OP because this thread has gone way off topic. Below is the problem I am having.
-My gf and I are in our mid twenties working and dated for about 5 years. -I am under pressure of giving her assurance of marriage very soon. I have postponed this long enough. -She wants to marry me but I am younger and I am afraid if I am making a premature decision on getting married. I love her but I have not lived long enough to have the actual knowledge of how other people are like. As I have known only people from school work, church, people from my old part time jobs and etc, I am asking if I should go with my feeling( which could be too rushed and I have fear that I am making this decision prematurely) or if I should wait til I'm older to see things more clearly.
I need advice from people around my age or older, who has been in similar situations. Thanks,
if you are happy with her TRUST ME the grass isn't greener bro, I was there and opted for the break up option and i regret it every day
I dated my ex for 4 years then we were thinking of getting married but i chose to move away with the thought of me being able to "be free to do whatever i wanted" ...yeah that didn't end so great and here i am now with nothing but a small apartment and video games to keep me from going crazy
I want to make a choice soon, for her sake. She is older than me and I don’t want to take away anymore from her precious time. I have already made up my mind inside that I will have to break up, but this is really difficult
Go with your gut feeling. The last thing you want is to revisit these thoughts/feelings but 10-15 years older and with 3 kids. Then you ll really feel trapped.
Disclaimer: I really hate to advise on these sorts of things, since it's a huge decision for your life; if you decide to take my advice it will mean that I am directly and morally responsible for whatever that may result from you taking that decision. So that being said, please take my advice open-mindedly and with a grain of salt.
In my opinion what you should do is ask yourself if you could ever find a girl whose personality you could fit with as well as you do with this one's. Do you think it would be easy for you to get together with or even find a girl that meets your criteria for beauty and personality as well as this one does? Could another girl ever make you as happy as this one does? Could you imagine raising a family with a partner other than her and grow old with her? If you answered yes to all of them then it's up to you to decide if you really want to break up with her, there are advantages to this as you outlined in your blog, as well as disadvantages. If no, I think that you should stay with the partner you have now, since your shared love seems to be really quite strong, and the disadvantages in the long run could hurt you and her a lot more and be more severe overall.
Edit: And in general, If you want my personal opinion, I think I sympathize with what Sega said.
On March 27 2012 11:57 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: I have also respected her opinion of no sex before marriage, which must count for something that we have really had a serious and relationship full of respect (This is too hard and I advise young men going into long term relationship, if your girlfriend doesn't wanna have sex with you, please enjoy your life to the fullest before going out with her... this is too much pain).
Not only good advice, but you sir are a better man than most. Honestly if you've made it this far..ask yourself if you'd be willing to do that for anyone else and if the answer is no I think you found your girl.
Think of it purely objectively. You say you want to break up to experience the 'greener grass.' What is it another partner could potentially offer you that your current one does not? Never mind the amount of time it may take you to find said partner, or the risk that you may never find such a person. This advice is coming from a guy who was/is in exactly your position, with a girlfriend (now wife) 2 years older at the same age, dating the same amount of time.
It's always a conundrum in these types of situations. I've come to a theory that seems to explain the misfortunes and issues held in relationships, but bear with me as I've never really articulated it in such a way.
Everyone in a new relationship is overwhelmed with the chemicals associated with the interactions and new things felt (especially for younger people) that come from this new partnership.
As such, in these new relationships, unless there are clear red flags in actions and statements of the significant other that you can't handle, the newness and your approach will be to keep things kosher, and to smooth things out, whether things annoy you a little or not. Now clearly, there are those that have no tolerance, so not all new relationships will be fight-free for the early portions of it, but it's a general consensus nonetheless.
Now back to my point and theory; everyone has a baseline, as I like to call it. There is a baseline in regards to your values, beliefs and actions. In a new relationship, your baseline will become altered by however much is needed to deviate in order to keep things on the up and up. The issue that arises in young couples (or sheltered individuals), is that sometimes, their base isn't fully established and developed yet because of the inexperience factor.
This brings up the first issue. As you become more experienced and knowledgeable about your feelings, and how your values and beliefs change or remain the same over time, your ability to keep things smooth in the relationship depends on where they fit into your baseline. You may find that your natural tendencies are constantly at odds with your significant other, and you have to keep deviating from your baseline to avoid a fight. This is a clear sign that there will be problems in your future.
The next step, is that couples that experience turbulence will try and work it out in such a way that one of them has to change, or that they have to be a little more conscious of what's said, or what is done by one another. Whether this works or not, depends on how much deviation is or has occurred. The best way to explain the theory, and to support it is that no one can change. Absolutely not. What change is, no matter what is changing, is a temporary deviation from your baseline. Some people can keep it up for 1 month, some for 10 years. The key point is that everyone will arrive back at their baseline. (This is where mid-life crisis comes from, and seemingly normal people just up and "changing." No, all they did was resort back to being themselves)
If you have to make a pretty decent deviation in your baseline, whether you swear too much, or you leave the toilet seat up, or how you would raise your children; you will come crashing back down to your baseline, or risk some type of mental issue. This arrival back to your baseline, and an attempt to keep things going, will result in your unhappiness manifesting itself in undesirable ways. Whether that means mental and psychological issues, or cheating, or dangerous activities, the result remains the same.
And as much as I don't wish to cause this thread to turn into a silly debate about religious issues, no sex before marriage is a lot of people's undoing. The naive and conscious stance that sex doesn't matter, or should be special with the one person you're going to marry, and that there are other things in life to be committed and content with, has no bearing on your biological imperative. Without knowing your sexual compatibility (and no, going through it together doesn't work, some people just are not compatible in the bedroom), there is a real risk of future problems because one of you is likely to be unsatisfied.
On March 27 2012 12:14 Sega92 wrote: if you are happy with her TRUST ME the grass isn't greener bro, I was there and opted for the break up option and i regret it every day
I dated my ex for 4 years then we were thinking of getting married but i chose to move away with the thought of me being able to "be free to do whatever i wanted" ...yeah that didn't end so great and here i am now with nothing but a small apartment and video games to keep me from going crazy
I understand what you are saying. Were you near my age as well?
I want to make a choice soon, for her sake. She is older than me and I don’t want to take away anymore from her precious time. I have already made up my mind inside that I will have to break up, but this is really difficult
Go with your gut feeling. The last thing you want is to revisit these thoughts/feelings but 10-15 years older and with 3 kids. Then you ll really feel trapped.
This is what I am really afraid of. There is a Korean word 늦바람 meaning late breeze. This is what my friends are afraid of as well.
On March 27 2012 12:24 PolskaGora wrote: Disclaimer: I really hate to advise on these sorts of things, since it's a huge decision for your life; if you decide to take my advice it will mean that I am directly and morally responsible for whatever that may result from you taking that decision. So that being said, please take my advice open-mindedly and with a grain of salt.
In my opinion what you should do is ask yourself if you could ever find a girl whose personality you could fit with as well as you do with this one's. Do you think it would be easy for you to get together with or even find a girl that meets your criteria for beauty and personality as well as this one does? Could another girl ever make you as happy as this one does? Could you imagine raising a family with a partner other than her and grow old with her? If you answered yes to all of them then it's up to you to decide if you really want to break up with her, there are advantages to this as you outlined in your blog, as well as disadvantages. If no, I think that you should stay with the partner you have now, since your shared love seems to be really quite strong, and the disadvantages in the long run could hurt you and her a lot more and be more severe overall.
Edit: And in general, If you want my personal opinion, I think I sympathize with what Sega said.
Thank you for your advice. This is something I have thought of over and over. I totally agree with your opinion. She would make a great wife and I can totally imagine having a family together. However, it is also true I have never met anyone else. It is almost like a peer pressure how close friends and family urges me to experience more in life, and they think I can do much more. My parents have always given me great life advice that I can trust on, but this is something where their advice doesn't really move me enough. Afterall, I am not a child anymore. I do see advantages and disadvantages, but I don't think I have seen enough in life to really foresee that.
On March 27 2012 11:57 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: I have also respected her opinion of no sex before marriage, which must count for something that we have really had a serious and relationship full of respect (This is too hard and I advise young men going into long term relationship, if your girlfriend doesn't wanna have sex with you, please enjoy your life to the fullest before going out with her... this is too much pain).
Not only good advice, but you sir are a better man than most. Honestly if you've made it this far..ask yourself if you'd be willing to do that for anyone else and if the answer is no I think you found your girl.
Best of luck with your decision.
Thank you sir. It is something I regret but also at the same time, it prevented me from going down the manwhore path, so I thank her for that. (I came into University anticipating all the parties and whatnot... only to meet my demise)
On March 27 2012 12:27 WaveofShadow wrote: Think of it purely objectively. You say you want to break up to experience the 'greener grass.' What is it another partner could potentially offer you that your current one does not? Never mind the amount of time it may take you to find said partner, or the risk that you may never find such a person. This advice is coming from a guy who was/is in exactly your position, with a girlfriend (now wife) 2 years older at the same age, dating the same amount of time.
Thank you for your opinion WaveofShadow. That is an answer I want to seek, as I have not known any other females in depth. I can say that I've seen many girls that are prettier, but that is really objective. She is pretty, as per many people, but she is more of attractive person type, while I am more of a pretty boy type without much attractiveness. I did request and talked with her many times that she try doing yoga more to be more fit, but she is too busy to focus on that as well, which discourages me, as I work out regularly now. It is also shallow to make a decision based on that, so I think I will leave that out. If I wasn't attracted to her, I wouldn't even have dated her in the first place. But I do sometimes get attracted to other women physically, although I never engage or talk to them.
In personality, future, and how right we go together, I must say it will be hard to find someone who will do marginally better. We don't see many things wrong, but I don't know perhaps there can be many things that can be done better.
Did you experience your life to the fullest before marrying your wife? I am sure as a man, you have experienced the same struggles as I have. I envy your courage and decision. I wish I can do it like you, but I guess I am still a bit immature. I will have to ponder a bit more, but I wanna hear more from you. If you find the publicity uncomfortable, please do reach me by PM!
On March 27 2012 12:32 divito wrote: It's always a conundrum in these types of situations. I've come to a theory that seems to explain the misfortunes and issues held in relationships, but bear with me as I've never really articulated it in such a way.
Everyone in a new relationship is overwhelmed with the chemicals associated with the interactions and new things felt (especially for younger people) that come from this new partnership.
As such, in these new relationships, unless there are clear red flags in actions and statements of the significant other that you can't handle, the newness and your approach will be to keep things kosher, and to smooth things out, whether things annoy you a little or not. Now clearly, there are those that have no tolerance, so not all new relationships will be fight-free for the early portions of it, but it's a general consensus nonetheless.
Now back to my point and theory; everyone has a baseline, as I like to call it. There is a baseline in regards to your values, beliefs and actions. In a new relationship, your baseline will become altered by however much is needed to deviate in order to keep things on the up and up. The issue that arises in young couples (or sheltered individuals), is that sometimes, their base isn't fully established and developed yet because of the inexperience factor.
This brings up the first issue. As you become more experienced and knowledgeable about your feelings, and how your values and beliefs change or remain the same over time, your ability to keep things smooth in the relationship depends on where they fit into your baseline. You may find that your natural tendencies are constantly at odds with your significant other, and you have to keep deviating from your baseline to avoid a fight. This is a clear sign that there will be problems in your future.
The next step, is that couples that experience turbulence will try and work it out in such a way that one of them has to change, or that they have to be a little more conscious of what's said, or what is done by one another. Whether this works or not, depends on how much deviation is or has occurred. The best way to explain the theory, and to support it is that no one can change. Absolutely not. What change is, no matter what is changing, is a temporary deviation from your baseline. Some people can keep it up for 1 month, some for 10 years. The key point is that everyone will arrive back at their baseline. (This is where mid-life crisis comes from, and seemingly normal people just up and "changing." No, all they did was resort back to being themselves)
If you have to make a pretty decent deviation in your baseline, whether you swear too much, or you leave the toilet seat up, or how you would raise your children; you will come crashing back down to your baseline, or risk some type of mental issue. This arrival back to your baseline, and an attempt to keep things going, will result in your unhappiness manifesting itself in undesirable ways. Whether that means mental and psychological issues, or cheating, or dangerous activities, the result remains the same.
And as much as I don't wish to cause this thread to turn into a silly debate about religious issues, no sex before marriage is a lot of people's undoing. The naive and conscious stance that sex doesn't matter, or should be special with the one person you're going to marry, and that there are other things in life to be committed and content with, has no bearing on your biological imperative. Without knowing your sexual compatibility (and no, going through it together doesn't work, some people just are not compatible in the bedroom), there is a real risk of future problems because one of you is likely to be unsatisfied.
Thank you divito. Very logical way to put this, and I really appreciate your input on this. I don't know if I fully agree with no one will change, but I must say deep down, some things that I thought were changed have not. But at the same time, many things have as well. For instance, I was an arrogant fool who always made a joke of fat or unfashionable people (quietly to my gf of course) when I was younger. She hated that, and helped me not to look at the world such way. Some things like that, I have opened my eyes more to become mature.
At the same time, my desire to enjoy my life to the fullest has been forced down beneath my consciousness but it has always been there. It feels like whatever I do, it will always be there, haunting me over and over.
Religion is another issue. I was a Christian, but I see the world too logically, and I had to step away from it. She is a firm believer, and we are different to the extent of believing "Evolution vs Creation". This is something I could not understand (that someone could possibly not believe in evolution). About sex before marriage, for her, it is more about it being meaningful with your husband rather than religious reason. I fully agree with your argument that people need to experience beforehand incase some things are wrong. She sort of agrees, but there is no way she will open up in this situation. If things work out well, I would have given her enough assurance of the future.
Our baseline seems to be very similar. We didn't have to change too much to fit into one another, we had same idea about seeing the world, how to live a good life, how to treat other people (some part of this I had to change), raising a child, social life, and such.
Well none of us know enough information to really give you a good answer. But I personally got married at age 32 and I am glad I didn't do it any younger. If anything I would have liked to wait another year or two.
I also think you would be crazy to marry someone without sex first. If those are your values then I guess it's cool. I'd be worried that she might have a low sex drive -- I mean how else can you date someone for 5 years and not get it on with them? If she just isn't that interested in sex then the next 60 years of your life together may be somewhat frustrating.
I don't consider maturing in the same way as change. Things are meant to develop and mature, and it's slightly different than in the context that I'm referring to "change." But that's neither here nor there.
As for the rest of your response, I would then pose a question: are you able to completely act natural around her? How often, if ever, do you have to hold back something you might say or do because you fear her reaction to it? Once a day? A few times a week? Always? Never?
You're in a similar spot to one I was in, that I was in just over a year ago or so. I had a girlfriend of close to four years when we finally broke up. In the same sense, I wasn't fully experienced in relationships. I'd been part of one night stands, and escapades and little blips of relationships, but she was the first real girlfriend that I told my family about, and did real relationship-type things with.
Things seemed to be fine, we moved in together fairly quick, and were starting out on our life together. Even after three years, we had been discussing marriage, and kids, etc... She was someone that I could definitely see marrying, for a number of qualities that she possesses and that I wanted in a wife. However, where my baseline theory came from, was my own experience and analyzing all my friends and their relationships, and the studying I've done throughout my life. I started to notice things.
After these three years, things started to annoy me more, things I had shrugged off in the past about her opinions, or her behaviour, whether on her own or in relation to mine. Things I might have thought I would get over. I started to notice that everything I was naturally used to doing, would now be replaced with something else. I would avoid my true feelings, or acts, to simply avoid a fight, or to not provoke an uncomfortable situation.
I was also keen on getting myself into better shape than I was in. This was something we differed on, as she didn't have as much interest in sticking with something. Things slowly compounded themselves in such a way that I wasn't very happy, I was looking to improve my life and my health, and the sex, while alright, was not up to the level I had experienced. All these things snowballed into me realizing that it wouldn't work.
Once presented with the aspect of a breakup, she was taken aback because I had never really expressed these things in person to her. And upon me listing the reasons, she advocated that we could work on it, and that she could change so that things could work out. Being of the opinion, and the theory I have, I told her that I didn't want to force that on her. Even if she was able to change, it would be temporary, and that's not even something I would want to do to a loved one. She shouldn't have to change or disrupt her natural behaviour to make a relationship work. Both parties should be naturally who they are, and be compatible in that sense.
We had to live together for awhile before she could move back home, and the night she finally left, it really hit me hard, realizing that it was really over and she wouldn't be coming back. Over time though, I really started feeling better about the situation and so did she. As much as we loved each other, and would have wanted it to work, we are different people, and it is for the better.
I'm now in a new relationship (four months), and the process starts over again.
Thank you for your opinion WaveofShadow. That is an answer I want to seek, as I have not known any other females in depth. I can say that I've seen many girls that are prettier, but that is really objective. She is pretty, as per many people, but she is more of attractive person type, while I am more of a pretty boy type without much attractiveness. I did request and talked with her many times that she try doing yoga more to be more fit, but she is too busy to focus on that as well, which discourages me, as I work out regularly now. It is also shallow to make a decision based on that, so I think I will leave that out. If I wasn't attracted to her, I wouldn't even have dated her in the first place. But I do sometimes get attracted to other women physically, although I never engage or talk to them.
In personality, future, and how right we go together, I must say it will be hard to find someone who will do marginally better. We don't see many things wrong, but I don't know perhaps there can be many things that can be done better.
Did you experience your life to the fullest before marrying your wife? I am sure as a man, you have experienced the same struggles as I have. I envy your courage and decision. I wish I can do it like you, but I guess I am still a bit immature. I will have to ponder a bit more, but I wanna hear more from you. If you find the publicity uncomfortable, please do reach me by PM!
What do you mean by 'experienced my life to the fullest?' That's honestly a very loaded question. From the looks of it, and from the direction you keep steering, it appears as though you mean sexually/physically.
I suppose in that sense, you could say that I did not experience life to the fullest in that way, and there are always some regrets in that sense. But once again, I must always remind myself that even though there may be other women in my life who are more attractive to me at any given point in time, be it sexually, mentally, or spiritually, this is someone who must be compatible with me on an entirely different level. She must encompass all of the aforementioned things to a degree, and the entire package must somehow be weighed above any other woman I could potentially see myself with. My wife is all of those things and more, and I would not have it any other way.
You will always have 'what-if' moments and self-doubt, but I urge you to think about your potential future and REALLY decide for yourself if 'living your life to the fullest' is worth losing what may or may not be one of the best things that will ever happen to you. Yes, many a risk is taken in that decision, but that is what life is all about.
I say again, try and look at this decision as absolutely and objectively as you can, and really consider the risks, the pros and cons of what you may or may not decide to do. Ultimately you want to do what is best for you, which is understandable; no decision can be too shallow in that regard, but do your best not to think of it from purely a 'present-tense' point of view, rather consider your past together and future as well.
I hope all of this useless rambling can help you with your monumental decision in some way. I won't get into details about myself here, but if you are extremely curious and it may somehow help you, send me a PM and maybe I can help you a little more.
From what you described, go for it, don't hesitate ! As someone said, the grass isn't greener. My wife is 3 years older than I, but it does not matter.
Personally, I always facepalm when I hear about this no sex before marriage business. Insert South Park meme: if you don't have sex before marriage, you're gonna have a bad time.
Also, not to be a negative nancy, but if she doesn't believe in evolution, that doesn't bode for the future methinks. Assuming she's not simply ignorant of the matter and has actually considered the facts and rejected them, to me, that indicates someone who is narrow-minded, stubborn, inflexible, and/or overly religious.
Honestly, my advice to you would be to break up. Judging from what you've said in your posts, I think you'll regret it for the rest of your life if you don't give yourself a chance to live a little now.
I went through a similar situation in university; dated a girl for three years, started thinking about marriage, then broke up for various reasons. A year later I was wondering what I ever saw in her, despite the fact that she was pretty and all that, and I was much happier. Five years later, I'm traveling the world and having a great time. She's getting married this year, living on the same street as her parents, and has a government job that she'll likely keep for the rest of her life. I have no regrets.
Also, not to be a negative nancy, but if she doesn't believe in evolution, that doesn't bode for the future methinks. Assuming she's not simply ignorant of the matter and has actually considered the facts and rejected them, to me, that indicates someone who is narrow-minded, stubborn, inflexible, and/or overly religious.
Umm...so if you don't believe in "evolution" it means they're stubborn? Sorry, but um, a lot of people believe in different things, and not believing in evolution doesn't make them any worse...
The typical “Finding the grass that is greener” thought is really haunting me.
The saying is "The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence" and unless i'm mistaken that's the exact opposite of what you meant.
It's more to do with perception, jealousy and a play on the ambiguity of "other side of the fence" to those on the other side of the fence where the grass is supposedly greener, your grass looks greener, and so on, and that seems like a pretty good summation of what you're experiencing, it's a cautionary tale about not throwing away what you have just to get something that someone else has because the grass is always greener on the other side, regardless of which side you end up on.
I think what you really need to do after you get your advice is to take a week or so by yourself away from any and all peer pressure. Think it over and then come back with your decision. The way it is right now is that you are getting tugged and stretched in different directions. I think if you consider the advice and give yourself the time you need you will come to a decision you won't regret. it also enables you to really consider how you feel and how important this person is to you (like rest of your life important).
On March 27 2012 12:14 Sega92 wrote: if you are happy with her TRUST ME the grass isn't greener bro, I was there and opted for the break up option and i regret it every day
I dated my ex for 4 years then we were thinking of getting married but i chose to move away with the thought of me being able to "be free to do whatever i wanted" ...yeah that didn't end so great and here i am now with nothing but a small apartment and video games to keep me from going crazy
I understand what you are saying. Were you near my age as well?
actually I was 21 at the time even younger than you iirc and thats why i felt that i had so much ahead of me in life, I would rather take a boring life with the girl than an "exciting and free life" on my own
I don't have the time to make a coherent argument; but holy fucking shit - marriage is not the 'end of fun' or the 'be all and end all of your life' - marriage is about coming together with the person you couldn't imagine being without. If you are thinking about all these 'great' things to do but can't picture doing them with your partner then i don't think you're mature enough marriage. It's about accepting that you are mature enough to realise that "wanting what you can't have" is a constant but being so damn happy about what you have that it doesn't ever bother you.
I just got married at the age of 22; all my friends are single, they go travelling every year all over the world and fuck everything and everyone, take drugs, party, explore, trek, adventure the whole shabang! Am i jealous? No! Because i am complete; i have the one i love for the rest of my life and NOTHING in this world can compare to that feeling. If i want to travel or have new experiences i sure as fuck don't want to do it alone - i want to share these new experiences with my soul mate.
When pressed with a tough decision it is only natural to consider both sides of the equation; it is perfectly logical to think these things through but i would urge you seriously contemplate your future with this woman and how perfect you think it'd be.
I'm 22, turning 23 on June 1st. My fiancee is 26, turning 27 on October 23rd - we have been engaged since December 2011.
I think you really need to figure out this problem (duh, right?) because you're doing a great disservice to your potential wife if you get married while you still have great reservations, hoping that this feeling will just go away. I think it would be irresponsible and selfish to get married while you're still troubled about this problem.
As to your actual feelings, I've had similar thoughts. As a 22 year old, I'm fairly young and I didn't have many relationships - I've had three girlfriends in my life (my fiancee is my third). The first time I had sex was with my now-fiancee. When I was thinking of proposing to her I had reservations. On the one hand I loved my girlfriend, but on the other hand, was I settling down too early? Should I date more women before deciding to get married? My friends and even my mother asked me if I was okay with the choice of only having sex with one woman? I struggled with this for about a month or two.
Ultimately I decided that those concerns were unimportant. I love my fiancee and she makes me happy, I can't imagine my life without her, she's my best friend and very supportive - she's everything I want. There is a possibility that there's another girl I could meet who could be even better for me, maybe this woman is more attractive, cooks better, isn't quite as emotional etc, but together my fiancee and I have grown a level of respect and love for each other that couldn't be matched by another woman. Maybe if I had met this hypothetical girl at the same time I met my now-fiancee, I would have chosen the other girl, but as it is I dated my fiancee and we've grown to need each other.
All this being said, I understand the point my friends were making (and that yours are seemingly making), it seems like at such a young age you should be exploring your options, but who's to say that you didn't meet a girl who is perfect for you quicker than most would? Most people have to search around before they find someone they are so compatible with they want to marry - but that doesn't have to be the case for everyone, so to break up with a girl because you think you haven't 'explored' enough is silly in my opinion. There shouldn't be a baseline level of exploration that you need to meet before you marry a girl, you explore until you find someone who's right.
It seems like you have a lot of thinking to do. Either you can come to terms with your feelings and have a marriage with this woman, or you're going to be haunted by this, in which case you shouldn't get married. I think you should continue to date while you explore this, but if you break up, make sure you do it because there's something about your girlfriend that doesn't make you happy, not because of some arbitrary judgement that you haven't explored enough.
On March 27 2012 14:26 bkrow wrote:I just got married at the age of 22; all my friends are single, they go travelling every year all over the world and fuck everything and everyone, take drugs, party, explore, trek, adventure the whole shabang! Am i jealous? No! Because i am complete; i have the one i love for the rest of my life and NOTHING in this world can compare to that feeling.
This is what you need to feel in my opinion before you propose. I have friends who fuck different women every night, go to parties all the time, are travelling across Europe yet they're jealous of me because I've found someone who completes me. That's better than any other experience.
On March 27 2012 14:26 bkrow wrote: I don't have the time to make a coherent argument; but holy fucking shit - marriage is not the 'end of fun' or the 'be all and end all of your life' - marriage is about coming together with the person you couldn't imagine being without. If you are thinking about all these 'great' things to do but can't picture doing them with your partner then i don't think you're mature enough marriage. It's about accepting that you are mature enough to realise that "wanting what you can't have" is a constant but being so damn happy about what you have that it doesn't ever bother you.
I just got married at the age of 22; all my friends are single, they go travelling every year all over the world and fuck everything and everyone, take drugs, party, explore, trek, adventure the whole shabang! Am i jealous? No! Because i am complete; i have the one i love for the rest of my life and NOTHING in this world can compare to that feeling. If i want to travel or have new experiences i sure as fuck don't want to do it alone - i want to share these new experiences with my soul mate.
When pressed with a tough decision it is only natural to consider both sides of the equation; it is perfectly logical to think these things through but i would urge you seriously contemplate your future with this woman and how perfect you think it'd be.
People like you warm my heart. Reading this is exactly what I needed to hear before I go to bed tonight. It's really reassuring and I can't thank you enough. <3 I wish you a long and happy life with her. I'm not in any sort of similar situation, but I am dating someone I would like to marry in the future. I've been with him since I was 17 3/4. I just turned 20, I'm a year and a half older than him. I'm not sure he sees it the exact same way I do, and there is a chance he may see this, but I know he is the person I want to marry.
@OP: Do you want to marry her? Can you see yourself starting a family with her, growing old together, etc? Considering you said you've already made up your mind, I'm assuming the answer to the other questions is no.
Also, not to be a negative nancy, but if she doesn't believe in evolution, that doesn't bode for the future methinks. Assuming she's not simply ignorant of the matter and has actually considered the facts and rejected them, to me, that indicates someone who is narrow-minded, stubborn, inflexible, and/or overly religious.
Umm...so if you don't believe in "evolution" it means they're stubborn? Sorry, but um, a lot of people believe in different things, and not believing in evolution doesn't make them any worse...
You truly do not understand evolution. Its not a matter of believing or not, it's there whether you think its real or a big lie.
But I still feel like I haven’t experienced my life to the fullest. I feel really guilty about this because I love her more than anything else, but I really have not seen the world yet. I’ve failed at networking with many friends because I dated her right after coming into university. I have the ability to have as much fun as I want, date as many girls as I want. The typical “Finding the grass that is greener” thought is really haunting me.
I think you answered things yourself in the part I bolded/underlined.
If you're seriously doubting so much whether you 'should' marry or completely break up with her, you're probably not all that happy being with her? I can't imagine marrying someone if I were constantly asking myself, 'is this really the right thing to do?' about it, really. :p
Just ask yourself one question. Could you see yourself without her in your life? Or better yet, could you see her with someone else? I personally don't believe in marriage, I think it's just an outdated social obligation that fucks you in the end if you break up.
Thank you guys for all your inputs. I have read them all thoroughly but I cannot respond in more detail at the moment because I am at work. I will try to do this later tonight.
As for the general question of "can I see myself living my life with her til the end of time", "starting a family together" and etc, yes and yes. We have talked and planned and thought about our marriage in detail. I will have to talk to her in a few days when I cool down a bit more. I hope all this thoughts are coming back to me because I am angry at her at the moment. Wantng to experience my life more was something I overcame (or thought I did) while ago, but it looks like it came back after the fight.
If you marry her, you will always regret that you didn't see what else was out there. If you don't marry her, you will regret it forever when you realize that the grass isn't greener on the other side. Either way, you'll regret something. You need to learn to live without regret.
You clearly aren't ready for marriage. Walk away and revisit the idea later on in life when you're emotionally mature enough that the prospect of living your life for another person actually excites you and gives you purpose rather than spawning a blog on a website for videogames.
I had a somewhat similar situation in college... started dating a girl my freshman year and stuck with her all throughout college and then did long distance with her for another 3.5 years (really stupid, don't do distance kids) before I finally broke things off. That breakup was 5 months ago and I haven't really been with anyone since and to be completely honest with you, I don't regret a thing. Fact of the matter is that I felt stuck in my relationship because of how much time and effort I had put into it all and getting out of it was incredibly liberating and awesome for me (once I got over the initial sadness).
For your case... well, I don't want to say that you're crazy for considering marriage before sex, but at the same time, the issue seems to be bothering you. It would be one thing if you weren't thinking about whether the grass is greenier or talking on an online forum about how you haven't had sex with her, but the fact that it's an issue for you is a red flag to me that this just isn't something you should go into a marriage without doing. There is good sex and bad sex and women who want to have sex often enough for you and women who don't want to have sex often enough for you. Not knowing your sexual compatibility before marriage and then assuming that everything'll be ok once you say "I do" is naive and a recipe for disaster.
Also, if your friends are advising you against staying with her, that tells me that they probably see that you aren't as happy as you've convinced yourself that you are. You keep saying she's perfect for you, but then also bring up issues with her and point out how your friends think you should move on. Friends don't tell their friends to move on when they've found the perfect girl, they tell you to move on when they notice that you're stuck in a rut and think you can do better. If these are friends that you trust and they're telling you to get out, chances are that they're seeing something you're not.
Ultimately though, you really need to take WaveOfShadow's advice and take a step back and try to be objective about analyzing your relationship. You've been in it for a long time and it's easy to lose perspective when you're that committed to someone (I know I did). I'm trying to point out the warning signs I'm seeing, but really this is your decision and your life and only you can make the right decision here. Just make sure you take a good hard look at it and be honest with yourself before you commit yourself to this woman for the rest of your life.
I cannot imagine marrying somebody without living with them first, let alone having sex. You will learn things about her that you cannot find out any other way, and I can almost guarantee that within 6-12 months you will feel much more comfortable about either getting married or breaking up.
But, your girl probably won't do it. So, I would bail and bang all the chicks you should have been banging the last 5 years.
Like others have said, the no sex/not living together for 5 years is a huge issue.
I know it seems shallow, but it really isn't. That would be like buying a car before you ever test drove it. I know it's an overused analogy, but it works. Sex is an important part of marriage, as well as how well you two live together. I wouldn't marry any girl without having done both(or at least spend a lot of time staying at each others' places). You honestly don't know what your married life would be like with this girl. Relationships comletely change when you add those factors in, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse. Don't commit to such an unknown, imo.
I know she has reasons (probably religous) for not wanting to have sex before marriage, but honestly, that is a stupid, outdated custom (again, imo). If she is unwilling to compromise on these issues (which seem important to you), it might be time to move on. I would suggest not making a decision one way or another for at least a week or so, though.
1. My girlfriend and I would be considered a top 1% in our age group in income, specs, and visuals. This means we can get married if we wanted to, as we can support ourselves no problem, but also, if we seek new opportunities, we would have 0 difficulties in doing so.
Seems a shame to throw away 5 years. The grass isn't always greener, cliche etc, but you gotta do what you gotta do. You might just not be thinking straight after 5 years of being in your late teens early twenties and not getting any. Maybe you should think on it for another week. I get the feeling you might regret ending things.
I'm 25 and DID date a lot of people before meeting my fiance. It was a very easy decision for me to ask her to marry me because of the experiences I've had in other relationships. Sometimes I felt like the relationship was stale with previous girlfriends but would hang on because of how much time was invested. Eventually I ended those relationships and I'm really glad I did. Think about it this way... If you're unsure and she wants babies and marrage and all that then you're wasting her time. It's going to take her maybe another year after you break up to be ready to get married again. And once you break up your relationship will never be the same. There's nothing worse in a relationship than warmed over love. If you're ready to have her totally out of your life foreverrrrtrr then be fair to her and break up. I guarentee you'll be crying to have her back when you realize how sucky most people that are single at 25 are.
1. My girlfriend and I would be considered a top 1% in our age group in income, specs, and visuals. This means we can get married if we wanted to, as we can support ourselves no problem, but also, if we seek new opportunities, we would have 0 difficulties in doing so.
I went through a similar, but fractionally smaller thing with my relationship. And its not marriage. I won't try to say I know how you feel just relate my experience in case it will help you. Do I keep her? Will I be selling myself short? If I'm having doubts, should I even be here? Why can't I just *make* myself love her? Why am I not feeling the way I think I'm supposed to be feeling? If I feel this way now, then what about later? other girls? advice from other people? aggh
The answer was something right in front of me but something I didn't expect. It also dealt with issues I didn't think were even related. It's because I chose not to be fully committed that I wasn't. You can concentrate on what you have, or what you don't have. When you concentrate on what you don't have, it generates desire and resentment. When you concentrate on what you have, it generates contentment and happiness. Obviously, one is more beneficial than the other. Now in my case, I concentrated on all the opportunities that my girlfriend and I -didn't- have if we stayed together. On paper, we were perfect, but I still felt like I was choking. I was pushing her away because I was scared.
We broke up. Or, I broke up with her and told her not to talk to me. It was sudden, I did this against the advice of my family, friends, counselors, everybody. Nobody expected it. For five days, I went through utter emotional hell, and I'm so thankful every day that I did. That's when I saw it, the key to a happy, fulfilling relationship isn't what's actually there, at any given moment there will be tons of good and bad things, it's what you choose to concentrate on. I think you'll agree people can love stupid stuff which is really bad for them, and this means you can love anything you choose depending on what you choose to experience from it.
I also realized that love was for me. It was giving her the power to really hurt me. Before the breakup, I wasn't completely ready to do that. I was scared of it and rationalizing things in all other ways like "other girls" "other opportunities" etc etc. I felt like being with her was trapping me. Then, when I was "free," I realized...from what? What is so great about all this stuff I wanted before? I was concentrating so hard on futures that "might" happen because I was running. All this concentrating on not having was generating tons of resentment which spilled over into the relationship as doubt, uncertainty, etc. But when it all dropped, I was left with the truth. I had a great girl, a great relationship, the thing I'd been searching for the whole time, but I couldn't accept it.
At the end of hell, I was left feeling numb. Nothing. Almost a week of screaming in a pillow, fasting, destroying who I thought I was and the harmful beliefs/tendencies which had led me to the place I was in. And then I felt nothing, and I knew deep inside my heart I needed to go talk to her and let her know I'd give her my love. She could choose whether or not to accept it and that was a risk I had to take, the risk of truly getting hurt and losing her. But I would give it to her despite her.
We're back together now and the relationship is much more fantastic and fulfilling than I could've thought possible. The secret to a good relationship, and backed up by research, for every 1 negative thing (have not) ~5 positives (haves) are needed. you've chosen through the habits you've developed or the thoughts you have what you concentrate on, and that in turn creates the emotions you feel. The example I liked most was about a grandpa. his wife was old but loved cooking. and one morning she made breakfast for very important guests from the grandpa's side. she messed up the eggs, the biscuits were burned at the bottom and the drinks werent cold. But the grandpa smiled and bragged to all his company about how good his wife's gravy was. that is how you keep a good relationship
Some other things I did which helped: 1) stopped porn/fapping 100% 2) regular meditation 3) good sleep habits
On March 27 2012 11:57 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: People always give me advice that there are always better girls somewhere waiting for me. I know the world is big, and there are many people out there. But she has made me such a better person all along, and I think I will regret for a while regardless of any choice I make.
I broke up with my girl when she looked at me with eyes of pure love. I felt wicked, unworthy of her attention. I wanted so very badly to become better because of her, and that means a lot. whatever anybody else tells you, thats a huge thing.
I want to make a choice soon, for her sake. She is older than me and I don’t want to take away anymore from her precious time. I have already made up my mind inside that I will have to break up, but this is really difficult
this might sound really weird, but fuck her. this is about you man. don't try to shirk responsibility off caring for her. if the relationship is gonna be good for both of you, you gotta look out for #1 before anybody else. this is the sucky part is that only you can know when all you want are the perfect words for the answer. you might get a little confidence, a little high from what i say, but unless you generate it thats only temporary and you'll make another thread somewhere else for more. stop it, start controlling your desire
This is the first time ever that I have decided to break up with her, and we never have. We really never had any issues in our relationship, with fights here and there being resolved in a good manner pretty quickly. Perhaps I am being too irrational because we had a fight recently (she did something I really despise for the first time). And for the first time in 5 years of relationship, I have felt coldness in my heart. We haven’t talked for over a week, and I didn’t feel much emotion even when I thought this is pretty much over. Maybe I should give it a few more weeks to make a decision.
for a 5 year relationship, months is more like it. conflict can either be something which makes you two stronger or weaker. if you're worried about the relationship because of a single conflict, make sure youre actually dealing with it right before you determine whether or not you have to jump ship. look up conflict styles, win-win, collaboration, etc etc
When we break up, it is broken for good. It won’t end in bad terms because we are not breaking up for hatred towards one another. We still love each other. But the young age and our mental strength might not live up to what we want to accomplish together.
how can you know this? this is one of many many possible futures, except you're determining this course just by thinking about it. sometimes, to get the future right you just have to not think about it.
I want to ask you TLers who have dated for a very long time since young age, how you guys kept it going, how did you resist all the temptation, without having experienced the world at all (pretty much knew one girl for the whole time). If there are any highschool sweethearts, you guys can probably tell me a perfect example of how you guys managed. And for those that decided to break up, how did it end for you guys? Was it for the similar reasons? How did life fare for you afterwards?
You resist temptation by learning how to control your thoughts. When you can control how you think, you control what habits you form, what behaviors you enact, what emotions you feel and what conditions you set up in your life.
when you look at your girl, ignore all thoughts of the future. Are you happy? Are you comfortable? How are you right then? There will be ups and downs, and thats honestly what keeps the relationship going. be thankful for all you've been given. if somebody else tells you about something else you should want, or what you can do, they don't have your best interest in mind. at the end of the day only you can truly decide if you choose happiness, with or without this girl.
1. My girlfriend and I would be considered a top 1% in our age group in income, specs, and visuals. This means we can get married if we wanted to, as we can support ourselves no problem, but also, if we seek new opportunities, we would have 0 difficulties in doing so.
whoa there humble bear, don't sell yourself short
lol, I know. I am being 100% honest there, but I wrote that just incase some people would ask me, "Are you even able or have the financial backing to get married at that age?". It wasn't for bragging, but to prevent that kind of questions.
To KurtistheTurtle,
Thank you for your lengthy input. I agree with your point on happiness being dependent on what I focus on, what I pursue, and being truthful to my interest. However, I don't know about not thinking about the future. Marriage is all about the future, and I am a firm believer that marriage is not something that can be pursued just based on love for one another. It is my belief that you must match your potential spouse financially, in education, how they grew up in their family, what kind of friends they have (may not be too important), and such. I am indeed happy now, but thinking about the future, the main purpose of this thread was because there is a void in me of nothingness that I have not seen, and this may become even bigger later on in the future.
Thank you for your opinions and life stories. Your posts have helped me alot. What my friends do (well they fuck different women every night) is not of my concern. I have never really been jealous of what they did, but actually the opposite. They envy that I have met someone I can potentially marry. They have supported me going out with her even to the extent of marriage, but recently, they have told me to end this if I feel this way because it will only get stronger and the relationship will get messier. I agree with them that if there is even a small doubt or desire in my heart that I cannot achieve when I marry her, then things will spiral out of control one day. So, I need to find a way to really get rid of this temptation of wanting to experience the world.
It really isn't about wanting to sleep with other women. That really isn't of a concern. It is more about, because I am still very young, and her being basically the only women I have ever known and loved (previous girlfriends were just highschool girlfriends), she is the standard of women for me, and I don't know much else. I am happy, but I also think that my friends and family would give me their honest opinion (They say she is a great person, and a great marriage candidate, but I can strive for better). I understand why they say this because they also feel that I haven't seen the world enough for what it is.
When you are stuck in a well, that is what you see as the world. There is an old saying "Frog inside a well". I kind of feel like a frog right now. Of course, it is not like I have no female friends, so I kind of know what other women are like (And considering everything other than personality which I wouldn't know much, my girlfriend seems to be better than most), but I have never been emotionally attached to others. I have met my girlfriend whom I dearly love, but am I really making a sane, sensible decision in marrying her? I am making a decision based on literally 1 example. And probability of making a good life decision on 1 sample is low. I will have to think hard and ponder about that.
Also, I don't know why topic about sex before marriage became an issue here. I am certainly worried about it, and I will not get married unless I know we are without an issue. She only wanted it to be meaningful to the person she would marry. So the requirement was assurance of marriage to her. I am certainly not giving that to her right now, and that is why we are having problems. But if I do, then things will work out well. This brings up a funny situation of "What if you guys don't match well in bed?". Well, I will have to think about that when that problem comes along.
Living together before marriage, I am personally against it, and the society and community around me would not look at it in a good manner. It might seem weird to a lot of people, but if you are Asian... you would understand.
I am not asian and i didn't move in with my partner before we got married. So i understand (without being asian)...
Well from your writing it sounds like you've made up your mind; all i can say enjoy chasing this desire for "something more" and we can chat when you realise how badly you fucked up. People need to learn to be happy with what they have.. but the only way you'll learn that is from making a big fuck-off mistake.
On March 28 2012 11:00 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: Living together before marriage, I am personally against it, and the society and community around me would not look at it in a good manner. It might seem weird to a lot of people, but if you are Asian... you would understand.
I'm Asian and i would make it a pre-requisite before even THINKING about marriage that we live together. My parents would probably tell me to live with her, just to make sure she's right for me. So no, i don't understand because living together is a big part of whether you two would work in a marriage, hell you're going to be doing it for the rest of your life (unless you're part of the 66.67%). Sure i maybe Australianised but i wouldn't care what society and the community think of it, i sure as hell wouldn't be getting into a lifetime contract without trying to get ALL the knowledge about what i'm getting into.
As for the sex before marriage thing, i definitely would but i don't have religious beliefs holding me back. Sex is a critical component of any healthy relationship but i wouldn't be able to convince you to do it.
If you love her, and she makes you happy, does it really matter so much what other girls could be like? It seems like a really weird way to look at things, "Can I have more than I have with her?" I don't know. If you love her so much, it shouldn't really matter. If she makes you happier than anything, what more could you want? Yeah, if you don't marry her, it's possible you'll find someone like her. Will she be more "compatible"? Maybe. Will she make you happier? Well, if you're as happy as you can get, no. You may never find someone who you love more than you love her.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, why do you need to experience more if you've got something so great? It feels like you discount her by saying that there could be more out there. If that's the case, don't marry her. You don't love her enough.
Another point: If your family and friends hadn't said anything about there being more women out there, and you possibly being able to find a better one, would you have even considered looking for other girls? If you ignore what they say, is she perfect for you? You'll know better than they know if she's the one for you, or if there is something more you want or need.
I want to make a choice soon, for her sake. She is older than me and I don’t want to take away anymore from her precious time. I have already made up my mind inside that I will have to break up, but this is really difficult
I am 30++ and I have seen a lot of my friends forced in to a situation like you. Some chose to get married and some chose to break up. It doesn't matter as they all seems happy with their decision. You will be alright as long as you make your own decision for your own good.
On March 27 2012 12:37 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: This is what I am really afraid of. There is a Korean word 늦바람 meaning late breeze. This is what my friends are afraid of as well.
OK, I'll be honest with you, this is GOING to happen. There are always moments when you stop to wonder if the choice you hadn't made would have been better. Thing is, that'll happen whether you stay with her or not.
Ask yourself this: are you happy with her, after five years? Don't ask whether you can imagine some fantasy person you don't know exists who might be somehow better -- of course you can. The question is whether you are happy with the woman you're with. If the answer is yes, then you should stay together and get married.
If you get married, you'll wonder in 10-15 years whether going the other way would have been better. If you break up, you'll wonder in 10-15 years whether going the other way would have been better. You don't get to escape the self-doubt by making one decision or the other.
However, if you have serious doubts about her, right now, that's a totally different matter, and you should listen to that voice in your head.
once you breakup everything will change, so if you even think you may want her back it probably wont happen.
I was in the same boat and now even though we both love each other still the is no way we can get back together will the crap that has happened since.
Id say try take a brake for a week and whatever you do DO NOT LISTEN TO OTHER PEOPLE, you have to make this decision on your own of what you want to do and be happy with it, last thing you want is in a year or two blame other people for helping you make the wrong decision.
Religion is a powerful thing. I'm really jealous, not for anything else but your faith. I honestly wish I could believe in something so strongly, I blame my atheist upbringing for ruining my chance at the first leap of faith.
Seriously, not being sarcastic or anything. Mad props for your willpower.
On March 28 2012 10:14 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: To KurtistheTurtle,
Thank you for your lengthy input. I agree with your point on happiness being dependent on what I focus on, what I pursue, and being truthful to my interest. However, I don't know about not thinking about the future. Marriage is all about the future, and I am a firm believer that marriage is not something that can be pursued just based on love for one another. It is my belief that you must match your potential spouse financially, in education, how they grew up in their family, what kind of friends they have (may not be too important), and such. I am indeed happy now, but thinking about the future, the main purpose of this thread was because there is a void in me of nothingness that I have not seen, and this may become even bigger later on in the future.
a 1984 study by galvin & cooker states this.
"The satisfactorily married couple, according to the conventional therapeutic wisdom is first of all, deeply compatible...but they must agree on important things--sex, money, religion, childrearing--and should be able to compromise on everything else. Not that this couple doesn't argue--they do, but their arguments seldom get low-down and dirty, or even very heated. When they disagree, they naturally and without prompting do exactly what therapists advise less compatible and more troubled spouses to do; recognize conflicts, acknowledge differences openly but address them honestly and calmly before they degenerate into shouting matches. Conventional wisdom says they listen respectfully and empathize with each other's points of view; they don't interrupt much and if neither can persuade the other to do this or that side of the issue, they negotiate a workable compromise.
the orthodox belief that compatibility is indispensable to marital happiness and the reduction of conflict is critical to saving troubled marriages is a myth. Our research shows that it isn't hte lack of compatibility that predicts divorce, but the way couples handle their inevitable incompatibilities; not whether they fight all the time or never fight at all, but they way they resolve conflicts and overall quality of their emotional interactions in a marriage that determines its well being....
...We have concluded that we can actually quantify the ratio of positive to negative interactions needed to maintain a marriage in good shape. And we found that satisfied couples, no matter how their marriages stacked up against the ideal, were those who maintained a five-to-one ratio of positive to negative moments.
whether they fought a lot or not at all, whether they seemed passionately engaged with each other or distinctly distant and most importantly, whether or not they were compatible socially, financially, sexually, what counted was the overall balance of positive to negative.
what you're doing right now is creating a ton of negative moments, so naturally you'll feel the way you do. marriage isn't about the future, its a celebration and solidification of what already exists. the only difference between marriage & a relationship is that its a lot more expensive to break up. stop worrying about the perfect woman who might come, that's an irrational and debilitating thought train. stop worrying about the life you might live, you have this catostrophic expectation getting married will close all your doors and its not right for you. what if you concentrated on the opposite? what if getting married suddenly gave you clarity about who you were and what you want for your family? what if maybe when you're taking the vows you stare into her eyes, and despite doubt have faith you two are truly good for each other? i wont tell you how to approach it beyond these vague rambles about thought, but obv the way you think about it now isn't working. change your thinking or break up now and reap what you sow
your girl dies tomorrow. she's gone from your life, forever. every day you'd think about what could have been, what might have been. how you think is the core influence on your reality.
if you do go away for a week, go into nature. do some research, bring several books and materials on the subject but burn them after the first 2-3 days. dont allow contact with or from anyone, experience that you are truly alone if you choose to be, and you will have your answer.
On March 28 2012 22:04 EngrishTeacher wrote: Holy shit 5 years and no sex?
Religion is a powerful thing. I'm really jealous, not for anything else but your faith. I honestly wish I could believe in something so strongly, I blame my atheist upbringing for ruining my chance at the first leap of faith.
Seriously, not being sarcastic or anything. Mad props for your willpower.
Indeed it is a powerful thing, but i don't see how you couldn't believe in a religion? Just suspend your logical reasoning in the spiritual department and all should come to you. Pick whichever one you want, not that it really matters.
I've been with my girl for 4 years, I'd marry her if nothing screwy happen. If u can even consider marriage with her you should do it. If she loves u as much as I think she does, just imagine the pain you'll put her through, and her parents. You'd wish life wasn't like this but your decisions affect everyone around you. I'm sorry but it seems kinda selfish and arrogant to thinking about missed dating oppourtunities when you're willing to marry this girl. It's like she's replaceable or something. If that's the case maybe you aren't ready, but if you cared about her, you should really think about marrying her.
As I have cooled down a lot more, and had a lot more alone time, I am thinking and thinknig. I am going to meet with her and talk about this. However, I don't know what will happen. It really isn't 100% of my decision. Afterall, we are not talking or seeing each other for about 2 weeks now based on HER requiest that we take some time off. So, it is possible that she might be having second thoughts about this marriage decision. She is still young too, and she is taking off socially, meeting new people at work, at church, and all over. I really hope that isn't the case but we will have to see. I will update you guys soon.
FYI, again and again, sex before marriage thing is NOT BECAUSE OF RELIGION!!! She is a very religious person (and I am not, I am currently semi-atheist), but that is not the reason why we decided to have more of a platonic relationship.
On March 28 2012 11:00 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: Living together before marriage, I am personally against it, and the society and community around me would not look at it in a good manner. It might seem weird to a lot of people, but if you are Asian... you would understand.
First, I'm Asian and I don't understand at all.
Second, why are you personally against it if you're not religious? It's like buying a car before test driving it. There's a lot of components that go into a serious relationship beyond just going on dates every so often. You didn't speak to her for a week after the last thing that happened. There is just such a large gap between where you are now and where you'll be when you're married that it seems absurd not to live together first, even if you abstain from sex. Not to mention all the gross stuff people do, you'll have to get over.
Aside from religion, I see no reason to go in blind.
On March 29 2012 02:23 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: Thank you all for your opinions.
As I have cooled down a lot more, and had a lot more alone time, I am thinking and thinknig. I am going to meet with her and talk about this. However, I don't know what will happen. It really isn't 100% of my decision. Afterall, we are not talking or seeing each other for about 2 weeks now based on HER requiest that we take some time off. So, it is possible that she might be having second thoughts about this marriage decision. She is still young too, and she is taking off socially, meeting new people at work, at church, and all over. I really hope that isn't the case but we will have to see. I will update you guys soon.
FYI, again and again, sex before marriage thing is NOT BECAUSE OF RELIGION!!! She is a very religious person (and I am not, I am currently semi-atheist), but that is not the reason why we decided to have more of a platonic relationship.
Last I checked, it takes two(or more ) people to have sex. Your religion might not be getting in the way, but hers could be. Saying "we're asian" seems... odd.
Honestly, though, the reason why doesn't really matter that much. As I said before (in my experience), a relationship changes when you live together and add sex to the equation. It just changes (usually in a good way, but not always).
You don't know what married life would be like with this girl, because you are missing two of the most basic elements of married life: sex and living together. Of course there is more to it than that, but you can never downplay those components.
On March 28 2012 11:00 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: Living together before marriage, I am personally against it, and the society and community around me would not look at it in a good manner. It might seem weird to a lot of people, but if you are Asian... you would understand.
First, I'm Asian and I don't understand at all.
Second, why are you personally against it if you're not religious? It's like buying a car before test driving it. There's a lot of components that go into a serious relationship beyond just going on dates every so often. You didn't speak to her for a week after the last thing that happened. There is just such a large gap between where you are now and where you'll be when you're married that it seems absurd not to live together first, even if you abstain from sex. Not to mention all the gross stuff people do, you'll have to get over.
Aside from religion, I see no reason to go in blind.
I think living together before getting married (living together with someone you WILL marry) is a good idea. Trying to do that in Asian community is asking for a social death and getting mad pointed at. Also, my parents would not be able to go out and commune with other people. The community is still too conservative towards living together before marriage, and it is similar to almost all 1.5 generation Asians (At least of the several hundreds that I know). What I am guessing is that you are 2nd gen.
Also, my parent's generation, no one (Asians in Asia) lived together before marriage yet the divorce rate is much lower than nowadays. I have came acorss 'living togethe before marriage' thing for the first time after I immigrated to Canada. It was something new and something I found weird. Cultural reasons but as I grew up, I totally understood why, and the positive sides of all things. However, I don't think living together means everything. When you date someone long enough, know what their habit is like (it isn't like I have never stayed over at her place, went grocery shopping.. what not. We have done many many things together, just not live together) i dont think it is much of an issue. Of COURSE, it will NEVER be good enough as living together since you will get to know many things. Anyways, those are two reasons why I am against living together before marriage.
For example, I have no Chinese or Korean friend who has their parents living in Canada living with their gf or bf. There are some, but their parents are overseas. Their parents would cut off the financial support the moment they find out.
Let us not discuss anything in regards to sex... I know very well how important it is and I have no plan on overlooking it at all. I think the discussion has strayed off topic really.
The divorce rate is lower, just as the divorce rate was lower in the US in the 1950s. That's the type of conservatism that exists in most deeply azn communities.
That doesn't mean the marriages are more successful. You can obviously choose to do it, but I don't think stressing the benefits based on statistics from marriages 30+ years ago is really a fair comparison. In the past, people just didn't get divorced. Today, people get divorced for many of the concerns you're outlining in your OP. I'm just trying to illustrate that living together first may likely be the more careful approach, and could actually reduce the risks of incompatibility later on.
You're asking us about choosing between traveling in opposite directions, and the justifiable fear you have that you're choosing the wrong way. I'm saying it's possible to take a few more steps towards the marriage direction without completely committing to it yet, in order to gather more information. Maybe even temporarily, for a few weeks.
The social concerns you brought up are good ones but if it's temporary, it could be something your parents never have to talk about. Have you talked to them about it? It could very well be they don't care - parents can surprise you. Honestly, the fact that your loved ones have said you can do better almost sounds to me like they're not big fans of her. It's just a lightened way of saying it.
EDIT: And spending the night over isn't quite the same. It's the same as with any roommate (and why they say you shouldn't room with friends when you first go to college.) The little things start to add up and annoy you, so it's about both of you seeing if you can let the other person's little things go.
The divorce rate was also lower when people could smoke indoors and we used lead paint.
Anyways, you have some pretty strong, conservative views. So I don't know what you're expecting from this thread. Obviously you will get, on average, middle-of-the-road advice that isn't in line with how you live.
Edit: It's my opinion that you should never marry someone without living with them and having sex with them.
Divorce rate was really to put things into context. I know it is illogical to bring that up and compare. But there are many cases where they have happy marriage lives without living together. Again, I do agree that it is a safer option to live together before marriage, but it is NOT an option for me. I did not ask if I should live together before marriage or not, I was asking for advice for how to handle this situation.
I will figure something out. She is important to me, and we both try to make ourselves better to make each other happier. I want to make this work, but I will have to see what she feels because again, she could be the decider to end this relationship just as much as I can.
If I do decide to get married though, I am quite worried about cooking and household work. She is a career woman type, so she is busy at work all the time, at home or at office. I am more relaxed working type, working a secure but boring job. So this might be something I might have to sacrifise (Doing more household work myself) to make things work, because I can't stand the house being dirty. An ideal wife for me would be a career woman that also loves cooking... she fits almost all criteria but she hates cooking. If she enjoys cooking, I told her that I could do all the laundry, vacuuming, dish washing.. etc. This is something I really wanna check before getting married, and it is really too bad that living together isn't an option for me.
Edit: Her and my parents would cut family ties with us if we decided to move out and live together before marriage. They're strangely conservative in that way, I think it is because of church and the small community that we have (everyone knows each other) and the insanely negative views we will receive.
On March 28 2012 11:00 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: Living together before marriage, I am personally against it, and the society and community around me would not look at it in a good manner. It might seem weird to a lot of people, but if you are Asian... you would understand.
First, I'm Asian and I don't understand at all.
Second, why are you personally against it if you're not religious? It's like buying a car before test driving it. There's a lot of components that go into a serious relationship beyond just going on dates every so often. You didn't speak to her for a week after the last thing that happened. There is just such a large gap between where you are now and where you'll be when you're married that it seems absurd not to live together first, even if you abstain from sex. Not to mention all the gross stuff people do, you'll have to get over.
Aside from religion, I see no reason to go in blind.
I think living together before getting married (living together with someone you WILL marry) is a good idea. Trying to do that in Asian community is asking for a social death and getting mad pointed at. Also, my parents would not be able to go out and commune with other people. The community is still too conservative towards living together before marriage, and it is similar to almost all 1.5 generation Asians (At least of the several hundreds that I know). What I am guessing is that you are 2nd gen.
Also, my parent's generation, no one (Asians in Asia) lived together before marriage yet the divorce rate is much lower than nowadays. I have came acorss 'living togethe before marriage' thing for the first time after I immigrated to Canada. It was something new and something I found weird. Cultural reasons but as I grew up, I totally understood why, and the positive sides of all things. However, I don't think living together means everything. When you date someone long enough, know what their habit is like (it isn't like I have never stayed over at her place, went grocery shopping.. what not. We have done many many things together, just not live together) i dont think it is much of an issue. Of COURSE, it will NEVER be good enough as living together since you will get to know many things. Anyways, those are two reasons why I am against living together before marriage.
For example, I have no Chinese or Korean friend who has their parents living in Canada living with their gf or bf. There are some, but their parents are overseas. Their parents would cut off the financial support the moment they find out.
Let us not discuss anything in regards to sex... I know very well how important it is and I have no plan on overlooking it at all. I think the discussion has strayed off topic really.
You're going to have a lot more problems in life than a girl if you're worried about "social death" and getting "mad pointed at." My advice is move to another city. You've got a lot of growing to do. From what you've written so far in this blog, it sounds like you're extremely sheltered and live in some kind of puritanical hell-hole from the early 1800's, the kind of place where people get burned at the stake for wearing different colored pants.
Also, your talk about generations and Asia is kind of bizarre. I know a number of Chinese girls in China, Taiwan, and Singapore who live with their boyfriends (some of them have multiple bf's. they hop from bed to bed through the week).
I've also known several Canadian-Chinese girls who live with their bf's. Their parents are aware of it and of course expect them to get married eventually but by no means are they or their parents ostracized from the community. Many of these girls are the daughters of wealthy and politically influential families, so it's not a "dirty girl from bad background" sort of thing.
And take it from a guy who dated a girl for 5 years then moved in together for 2 then broke up. Dating, no matter how close, is NOTHING like living together. What's mildly annoying at the moment becomes excruciating after living together. What's a straining point now, becomes a breaking point when you're FORCED to see each other night after night. Many coping mechanisms like a week of not talking or going out with friends for the weekend and forgetting each other are all useless when you are stuck sharing the same bed at night. It is totally not the same. And going by what you've said her current behavior is like, this girl is totally not ready for the strain of living together.
Remember, when you live together, she will always know when you come back from a strip club, casino, beach party, or any other assortment of fun things that help you get over wanting to throttle her. And her response will be to give you a new host of reasons to want to throttle her, thereby completely destroying the emotional progress you've just bought with time, money, and liver health.
Or I guess from what you've described of your life so far, instead of strip clubs and beaches, you go to libraries and family picnics. But fear not, it changes little what you do with your time away from her. She will relentlessly sniff out the aroma of crushed grass and freshly ziplocked turkey sandwiches on you and will proceed to screech at you like a harpy for having a grand old time while she languished in her emotional typhoon of misery. Then she will drown you in that misery of hers until you wish you could be an androgynous mannikin of a human being that never knew or cared for that peculiar creature known as woman.
On March 28 2012 11:00 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: Living together before marriage, I am personally against it, and the society and community around me would not look at it in a good manner. It might seem weird to a lot of people, but if you are Asian... you would understand.
First, I'm Asian and I don't understand at all.
Second, why are you personally against it if you're not religious? It's like buying a car before test driving it. There's a lot of components that go into a serious relationship beyond just going on dates every so often. You didn't speak to her for a week after the last thing that happened. There is just such a large gap between where you are now and where you'll be when you're married that it seems absurd not to live together first, even if you abstain from sex. Not to mention all the gross stuff people do, you'll have to get over.
Aside from religion, I see no reason to go in blind.
I think living together before getting married (living together with someone you WILL marry) is a good idea. Trying to do that in Asian community is asking for a social death and getting mad pointed at. Also, my parents would not be able to go out and commune with other people. The community is still too conservative towards living together before marriage, and it is similar to almost all 1.5 generation Asians (At least of the several hundreds that I know). What I am guessing is that you are 2nd gen.
Also, my parent's generation, no one (Asians in Asia) lived together before marriage yet the divorce rate is much lower than nowadays. I have came acorss 'living togethe before marriage' thing for the first time after I immigrated to Canada. It was something new and something I found weird. Cultural reasons but as I grew up, I totally understood why, and the positive sides of all things. However, I don't think living together means everything. When you date someone long enough, know what their habit is like (it isn't like I have never stayed over at her place, went grocery shopping.. what not. We have done many many things together, just not live together) i dont think it is much of an issue. Of COURSE, it will NEVER be good enough as living together since you will get to know many things. Anyways, those are two reasons why I am against living together before marriage.
For example, I have no Chinese or Korean friend who has their parents living in Canada living with their gf or bf. There are some, but their parents are overseas. Their parents would cut off the financial support the moment they find out.
Let us not discuss anything in regards to sex... I know very well how important it is and I have no plan on overlooking it at all. I think the discussion has strayed off topic really.
You're going to have a lot more problems in life than a girl if you're worried about "social death" and getting "mad pointed at." My advice is move to another city. You've got a lot of growing to do. From what you've written so far in this blog, it sounds like you're extremely sheltered and live in some kind of puritanical hell-hole from the early 1800's, the kind of place where people get burned at the stake for wearing different colored pants.
Also, your talk about generations and Asia is kind of bizarre. I know a number of Chinese girls in China, Taiwan, and Singapore who live with their boyfriends (some of them have multiple bf's. they hop from bed to bed through the week).
I've also known several Canadian-Chinese girls who live with their bf's. Their parents are aware of it and of course expect them to get married eventually but by no means are they or their parents ostracized from the community. Many of these girls are the daughters of wealthy and politically influential families, so it's not a "dirty girl from bad background" sort of thing.
And take it from a guy who dated a girl for 5 years then moved in together for 2 then broke up. Dating, no matter how close, is NOTHING like living together. What's mildly annoying at the moment becomes excruciating after living together. What's a straining point now, becomes a breaking point when you're FORCED to see each other night after night. Many coping mechanisms like a week of not talking or going out with friends for the weekend and forgetting each other are all useless when you are stuck sharing the same bed at night. It is totally not the same. And going by what you've said her current behavior is like, this girl is totally not ready for the strain of living together.
Remember, when you live together, she will always know when you come back from a strip club, casino, beach party, or any other assortment of fun things that help you get over wanting to throttle her. And her response will be to give you a new host of reasons to want to throttle her, thereby completely destroying the emotional progress you've just bought with time, money, and liver health.
Or I guess from what you've described of your life so far, instead of strip clubs and beaches, you go to libraries and family picnics. But fear not, it changes little what you do with your time away from her. She will relentlessly sniff out the aroma of crushed grass and freshly ziplocked turkey sandwiches on you and will proceed to screech at you like a harpy for having a grand old time while she languished in her emotional typhoon of misery. Then she will drown you in that misery of hers until you wish you could be an androgynous mannikin of a human being that never knew or cared for that peculiar creature known as woman.
Hahaha wow lol. This gells with my experience quite well, but at some point you decide you care about the person enough to weather the typhoon. It's certainly a lot easier to spend time with someone when you can take space every once in a while. I think some women understand that and manage to give space even when living with you.
On March 28 2012 22:04 EngrishTeacher wrote: Holy shit 5 years and no sex?
Religion is a powerful thing. I'm really jealous, not for anything else but your faith. I honestly wish I could believe in something so strongly, I blame my atheist upbringing for ruining my chance at the first leap of faith.
Seriously, not being sarcastic or anything. Mad props for your willpower.
Indeed it is a powerful thing, but i don't see how you couldn't believe in a religion? Just suspend your logical reasoning in the spiritual department and all should come to you. Pick whichever one you want, not that it really matters.
Yah, a few quadrillion times easier said than done.
Also, OP should keep in mind that his GF is 2 years older.
That doesn't seem like too much of a factor now, but 10-20 years down the road... when he's in his 30-40s and successful, having an old aging wife in menopause could affect his relationship. As shallow as this fact seems to be, it is something to consider.
On March 29 2012 02:23 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: She is a very religious person (and I am not, I am currently semi-atheist), but that is not the reason why we decided to have more of a platonic relationship.
This is in the top 1% of useless posts in blogs. I honestly don't know what you expect to gain from this, especially given that you appear to have already made up your mind and are only wasting your time arguing against (good) posts that aren't in line with your predisposed opinion and agreeing with (bad) posts which are. Meh.
Why are you paralyzed with the thoughts of divorce rate? Why do you have to be *the* pinnacle model citizen of your city and the entire Asian community?
I almost felt you are really from the 1700s, and somehow travelled to the future that is 2012.
Actually, scratch that. The section below just makes me think you're trolling.
On March 29 2012 04:35 ExceeD_DreaM wrote:
If I do decide to get married though, I am quite worried about cooking and household work. She is a career woman type, so she is busy at work all the time, at home or at office. I am more relaxed working type, working a secure but boring job. So this might be something I might have to sacrifise (Doing more household work myself) to make things work, because I can't stand the house being dirty. An ideal wife for me would be a career woman that also loves cooking... she fits almost all criteria but she hates cooking. If she enjoys cooking, I told her that I could do all the laundry, vacuuming, dish washing.. etc. This is something I really wanna check before getting married, and it is really too bad that living together isn't an option for me.
I think I can offer some advice. I am 24 now, and am getting married in less than 3 months. I have been dating my fiancee since grade 12 (we went to the same highschool), so over 5 years now. We are both settling down right now as we get out of school. She is interviewing for teaching jobs, and her prospects look promising, and I am working for my dads company. So we are also stable like you seem to be.
Now, to deal with your decision of marriage or break up, here is my emotional experience, it seems to be very different from yours. We know we are young. A lot of people from outside our closest group of friends ask me why I would settle down so early. However, our friends are more than 100% behind us. I guess where it differs here, is that we share the same friends. We didnt have to take much time away from our social lives for our relationship, because we spent it together, and often times in the company of those close to us. Now, your friends seem to be viewing this idea of settling down quite negatively. You cant let them influence your decision. My friends obviously like my fiancee, as she is also their friend, and they couldnt imagine us not being together. I wouldnt let them pushing me to get married influence me (not that it was an issue that arose, im speaking hypothetically), just like I dont think you should let what your friends think influence you to not get married. No matter how much others say, including the advice me and others give you, nobody knows your relationship like you and your partner. Trust yourself.
In regards to the whole "I havent experienced the world" thought, the way I approached it with my fiancee, is that we would do that together. Nobody says you have to do that alone. In reality, if you dont do this with her, you will likely do it with friends. Your serious gf/fiancee/wife should also be your best friend. If you dont have the sense of friendship and love for experiencing the world as a couple, then something may be lacking. I love nothing more than to have my fiance there to travel with, to try new things with, be it something far away and crazy, or just something simple like trying to cook a new type of food. If you cant see yourself experiencing life, with that person next to you, then you should question whether or not you are truly meant to be together. Dont forget, when youre married, the idea is that they will be beside you until the day you no longer exist. Thats a long time. Theres two ways to look at that, thats a lot of time to experience life together, or thats a long time to have to spend together. If you think the latter, then you likely arent ready.
In my relationship, the idea of "getting married too young" has never been a factor. Were both adults, we love each other, theres nobody that makes me happier, and she feels the same. You cant start a marriage when there is doubt involved. You have to be willing to fully give yourself to the other person. Really, what I noticed, is that every big event, our 1 year anniversary, our engagement, etc... felt no different than the day before. That is how I think it should be if you fully love each other. The night I proposed, we were out partying in Vegas with another couple (two friends we spend a lot of time with), and they asked us about 3 or 4 hours after the engagement, "How does it feel!!!?!?!?" Our response was "it actually doesnt feel any different, were just excited for the future and all the things we will get to keep doing together". I am 100% sure that our wedding will feel the same. It will be a fun party, with all our closest friends and family, but we wont feel any different toward each other, because were both already "all in".
That being said, if you two love each other, I wouldnt throw it away for some undefined idea of greener pastures. The mind is naturally inquisitive, and you will always wonder what else is out there, but that doesnt mean that you will be able to find better. You might want to test out the waters, go on an adventure, go travel somewhere, do something crazy fun and exciting that you think you really want to do before you "settle down". Do something you want, and something she wants, but do it together. See if doing these things you imagined doing, feel "right" with the other person there. If you think she is really the one, but the timing isnt right, or you have some nervousness, throw yourselves out there, and at least give it the best shot you are capable of. You wont regret anything if you put everything you possibly could into it, and you exhausted all other avenues. If you just give up easily, you can likely end up regreting that decision for the rest of your life.
Sorry for the wall of text, but I hope you got something useful out of it. Either way, good luck and I wish you all the best.
On March 28 2012 22:04 EngrishTeacher wrote: Holy shit 5 years and no sex?
Religion is a powerful thing. I'm really jealous, not for anything else but your faith. I honestly wish I could believe in something so strongly, I blame my atheist upbringing for ruining my chance at the first leap of faith.
Seriously, not being sarcastic or anything. Mad props for your willpower.
Indeed it is a powerful thing, but i don't see how you couldn't believe in a religion? Just suspend your logical reasoning in the spiritual department and all should come to you. Pick whichever one you want, not that it really matters.
Yah, a few quadrillion times easier said than done.
Also, OP should keep in mind that his GF is 2 years older.
That doesn't seem like too much of a factor now, but 10-20 years down the road... when he's in his 30-40s and successful, having an old aging wife in menopause could affect his relationship. As shallow as this fact seems to be, it is something to consider.
... what? I don't even ...
Presumably, men and women both age over time, so when she's old, he'll be old; while she's ageing, he'll be ageing. I might even dare to say that just as you're predicting his success, she might also be successful. If I were a true radical, I would posit the idea that the age gap might become less of an issue as they grow old (together!) - a 45 year old and a 43 year old are likely to be closer to the same place in life than they, say, an 18 year old and a 16 year old.
Also, unless you're a gay man, your long-term relationship is probably going to have to deal with menopause at some point.
On March 28 2012 22:04 EngrishTeacher wrote: Holy shit 5 years and no sex?
Religion is a powerful thing. I'm really jealous, not for anything else but your faith. I honestly wish I could believe in something so strongly, I blame my atheist upbringing for ruining my chance at the first leap of faith.
Seriously, not being sarcastic or anything. Mad props for your willpower.
Indeed it is a powerful thing, but i don't see how you couldn't believe in a religion? Just suspend your logical reasoning in the spiritual department and all should come to you. Pick whichever one you want, not that it really matters.
Yah, a few quadrillion times easier said than done.
Also, OP should keep in mind that his GF is 2 years older.
That doesn't seem like too much of a factor now, but 10-20 years down the road... when he's in his 30-40s and successful, having an old aging wife in menopause could affect his relationship. As shallow as this fact seems to be, it is something to consider.
... what? I don't even ...
Presumably, men and women both age over time, so when she's old, he'll be old; while she's ageing, he'll be ageing. I might even dare to say that just as you're predicting his success, she might also be successful. If I were a true radical, I would posit the idea that the age gap might become less of an issue as they grow old (together!) - a 45 year old and a 43 year old are likely to be closer to the same place in life than they, say, an 18 year old and a 16 year old.
Also, unless you're a gay man, your long-term relationship is probably going to have to deal with menopause at some point.
Erm ok, misunderstanding here. Of course a man has to deal with a menopausing wife at SOME point, but the fact of the matter is, tons of successful men in their 40s or even 50s have younger (sometimes much younger) wives in their 20-30s while the opposite is not often true at all. Once a woman reaches her 40s, or even 30s by certain standards, she loses most of her appeal to men. Again, for men it's much different, just think of any of the male Hollywood celebrities in their middle ages; still secksy shmecksy, no?
I've noticed this pervasive phenomenon with my time in China this year; most (90%+) of the younger female co-workers/friends that I've talked to, in their early-mid twenties, are looking to date men in their 30s or at least their late 20s. Of course values are different between person to person, but increasingly I've also found that most of my younger male friends are delaying marriage later and later, and this is backed up by statistics as well. So tentatively speaking for the majority of men, although I appreciate the importance of compatibility, I'm a horny creature, a prisoner of hormones and I would like my future wife to be both compatible with me and younger than me when I do marry her in my 30s. I'd like to not only love her as a life-long companion when I'm in my 40s in the psychological sense, but in the physical sense as well.
Maybe I'm a little bit too pragmatic having been through quite a few relationships, but you can't deny the fact that physical appearance/sex appeal is an important part of relationships, especially the life-long one.
On March 28 2012 22:04 EngrishTeacher wrote: Holy shit 5 years and no sex?
Religion is a powerful thing. I'm really jealous, not for anything else but your faith. I honestly wish I could believe in something so strongly, I blame my atheist upbringing for ruining my chance at the first leap of faith.
Seriously, not being sarcastic or anything. Mad props for your willpower.
Indeed it is a powerful thing, but i don't see how you couldn't believe in a religion? Just suspend your logical reasoning in the spiritual department and all should come to you. Pick whichever one you want, not that it really matters.
Yah, a few quadrillion times easier said than done.
Also, OP should keep in mind that his GF is 2 years older.
That doesn't seem like too much of a factor now, but 10-20 years down the road... when he's in his 30-40s and successful, having an old aging wife in menopause could affect his relationship. As shallow as this fact seems to be, it is something to consider.
... what? I don't even ...
Presumably, men and women both age over time, so when she's old, he'll be old; while she's ageing, he'll be ageing. I might even dare to say that just as you're predicting his success, she might also be successful. If I were a true radical, I would posit the idea that the age gap might become less of an issue as they grow old (together!) - a 45 year old and a 43 year old are likely to be closer to the same place in life than they, say, an 18 year old and a 16 year old.
Also, unless you're a gay man, your long-term relationship is probably going to have to deal with menopause at some point.
Erm ok, misunderstanding here. Of course a man has to deal with a menopausing wife at SOME point, but the fact of the matter is, tons of successful men in their 40s or even 50s have younger (sometimes much younger) wives in their 20-30s while the opposite is not often true at all. Once a woman reaches her 40s, or even 30s by certain standards, she loses most of her appeal to men. Again, for men it's much different, just think of any of the male Hollywood celebrities in their middle ages; still secksy shmecksy, no?
I've noticed this pervasive phenomenon with my time in China this year; most (90%+) of the younger female co-workers/friends that I've talked to, in their early-mid twenties, are looking to date men in their 30s or at least their late 20s. Of course values are different between person to person, but increasingly I've also found that most of my younger male friends are delaying marriage later and later, and this is backed up by statistics as well. So tentatively speaking for the majority of men, although I appreciate the importance of compatibility, I'm a horny creature, a prisoner of hormones and I would like my future wife to be both compatible with me and younger than me when I do marry her in my 30s. I'd like to not only love her as a life-long companion when I'm in my 40s in the psychological sense, but in the physical sense as well.
Maybe I'm a little bit too pragmatic having been through quite a few relationships, but you can't deny the fact that physical appearance/sex appeal is an important part of relationships, especially the life-long one.
What is precluding you from loving someone your own age when you're in your 40s? Because she may be going through menopause?
I can't back this up with figures, but I would argue that the reason that women may be attracted to men who are older than them is because in contemporary society, older men tend to have more social stability (and/or status), and if you subscribe to biological determinism in any sense, stability is an attractive quality because it's a good environment in which to raise offspring. Conversely, as you say, men are attracted to younger women because, well, they're more attractive, which is an indicator of fertility and good genes, etc. So perhaps it's a little incongruent that physiologically speaking, women supposedly reach their sexual peak at an older age than men - so, theoretically, a couple would have the most compatible sex drive when the man is in his late teens/early-twenties and the woman is in her early thirties.
To the OP: if it's too early for you, then postpone marriage. If the woman you're with truly loves you then she will respect your decision and stay with you. You don't want to fall into the trap of relationship problems from marrying too early just for the sake of it. You have to have a level of control and realize that this is a significant decision. If you have no control over the situation, then there's a high possibility that things won't work out well after marriage.
I think people are greedy and never think they are happy enough. I think no matter who you are with you will have thoughts of being able to find someone better. You should think about all the things that she does, that other girls most likely wouldn't do or be like that really make you happy.
Go with your gut, its a really important decision. If you break up with her you most likely wont be getting married for another 5-10 years. (Years of dating different people to find the right one, and years of being with that person before marrying them)
On March 28 2012 22:04 EngrishTeacher wrote: Holy shit 5 years and no sex?
Religion is a powerful thing. I'm really jealous, not for anything else but your faith. I honestly wish I could believe in something so strongly, I blame my atheist upbringing for ruining my chance at the first leap of faith.
Seriously, not being sarcastic or anything. Mad props for your willpower.
Indeed it is a powerful thing, but i don't see how you couldn't believe in a religion? Just suspend your logical reasoning in the spiritual department and all should come to you. Pick whichever one you want, not that it really matters.
Yah, a few quadrillion times easier said than done.
Also, OP should keep in mind that his GF is 2 years older.
That doesn't seem like too much of a factor now, but 10-20 years down the road... when he's in his 30-40s and successful, having an old aging wife in menopause could affect his relationship. As shallow as this fact seems to be, it is something to consider.
What? A 2 year difference is far more important in your 20s than it'll be in your 40s and 50s. Out of everything here, this may be the silliest post.
If your spouse doesn't want to have sex with you when they're 45, they probably didn't want to have sex with you when they're 40 either. If anything, burdens are lifted as your children grow up and move out.
You're going to have a lot more problems in life than a girl if you're worried about "social death" and getting "mad pointed at." My advice is move to another city. You've got a lot of growing to do. From what you've written so far in this blog, it sounds like you're extremely sheltered and live in some kind of puritanical hell-hole from the early 1800's, the kind of place where people get burned at the stake for wearing different colored pants.
Also, your talk about generations and Asia is kind of bizarre. I know a number of Chinese girls in China, Taiwan, and Singapore who live with their boyfriends (some of them have multiple bf's. they hop from bed to bed through the week).
I've also known several Canadian-Chinese girls who live with their bf's. Their parents are aware of it and of course expect them to get married eventually but by no means are they or their parents ostracized from the community. Many of these girls are the daughters of wealthy and politically influential families, so it's not a "dirty girl from bad background" sort of thing.
And take it from a guy who dated a girl for 5 years then moved in together for 2 then broke up. Dating, no matter how close, is NOTHING like living together. What's mildly annoying at the moment becomes excruciating after living together. What's a straining point now, becomes a breaking point when you're FORCED to see each other night after night. Many coping mechanisms like a week of not talking or going out with friends for the weekend and forgetting each other are all useless when you are stuck sharing the same bed at night. It is totally not the same. And going by what you've said her current behavior is like, this girl is totally not ready for the strain of living together.
Remember, when you live together, she will always know when you come back from a strip club, casino, beach party, or any other assortment of fun things that help you get over wanting to throttle her. And her response will be to give you a new host of reasons to want to throttle her, thereby completely destroying the emotional progress you've just bought with time, money, and liver health.
Or I guess from what you've described of your life so far, instead of strip clubs and beaches, you go to libraries and family picnics. But fear not, it changes little what you do with your time away from her. She will relentlessly sniff out the aroma of crushed grass and freshly ziplocked turkey sandwiches on you and will proceed to screech at you like a harpy for having a grand old time while she languished in her emotional typhoon of misery. Then she will drown you in that misery of hers until you wish you could be an androgynous mannikin of a human being that never knew or cared for that peculiar creature known as woman.
Thanks Storkhwaiting,
Unfortunately, there really aren't people like that in my community. The only people I know that have or are living together are people from my work, and only white people at that. However, I agree and understand everything you say. I do think it is important, but yet again, it isn't something I can do, so I'd leave that out of the equation.
Social death and whatnot is not just an immature thing. You don't live in this world together. The children will grow up in the same community, at the same church, meeting nice, conservative yes, but loving people. I have been brought up to adulthood in a specific way just like you have and I thank my parents for that. I am not sheltered, I just have my view on the topic, and I am just not that type of person. I don't think you really have to worry about me being too sheltered; I am not.
Move to another city when you already have the BEST job you can possibly ask for that will give benefits for life and can't fire you until you retire is a stupid move. This is also a job that I specifically chose my courses and study area for, so there is no reason to move. It is not only me but her as well. It is not easy to find jobs at smaller cities and only option would be to go to the states, which I don't prefer
On March 29 2012 12:21 EngrishTeacher wrote:
Yah, a few quadrillion times easier said than done.
Also, OP should keep in mind that his GF is 2 years older.
That doesn't seem like too much of a factor now, but 10-20 years down the road... when he's in his 30-40s and successful, having an old aging wife in menopause could affect his relationship. As shallow as this fact seems to be, it is something to consider.
lol. Thanks for the reminder, but I am OK with that. I will get old too, and I will see her for the way she is down the road. From what I've seen from my parents' generation, the type of love changes a bit as you grow older. I cannot express in english but there is this world called 정 in Korean. It is sort of like friendship/companionship, and often they say you can't break up because of all the 정. Of course, it's just one way of covering up that they love one another lol but it is a bit different. I don't think we need to discuss this though
On March 29 2012 12:52 Flaccid wrote: This is in the top 1% of useless posts in blogs. I honestly don't know what you expect to gain from this, especially given that you appear to have already made up your mind and are only wasting your time arguing against (good) posts that aren't in line with your predisposed opinion and agreeing with (bad) posts which are. Meh.
This is in the top 1% of useless posts to the OP. I honestly don't know what you expect to gain from writing such a comment. I am asking for honest opinions and life experience from people who HAVE been through similar situations. I want to make this relationship work, and no, I am not wasting my time reading the comments from people who have put their effort into writing out their concerns and thoughts. Right or wrong is entirely subjective. Posts like yours is something I am wasting my time arguing against. Thanks though
On March 29 2012 14:14 Focuspants wrote: I think I can offer some advice. I am 24 now, and am getting married in less than 3 months. I have been dating my fiancee since grade 12 (we went to the same highschool), so over 5 years now. We are both settling down right now as we get out of school. She is interviewing for teaching jobs, and her prospects look promising, and I am working for my dads company. So we are also stable like you seem to be.
Now, to deal with your decision of marriage or break up, here is my emotional experience, it seems to be very different from yours. We know we are young. A lot of people from outside our closest group of friends ask me why I would settle down so early. However, our friends are more than 100% behind us. I guess where it differs here, is that we share the same friends. We didnt have to take much time away from our social lives for our relationship, because we spent it together, and often times in the company of those close to us. Now, your friends seem to be viewing this idea of settling down quite negatively. You cant let them influence your decision. My friends obviously like my fiancee, as she is also their friend, and they couldnt imagine us not being together. I wouldnt let them pushing me to get married influence me (not that it was an issue that arose, im speaking hypothetically), just like I dont think you should let what your friends think influence you to not get married. No matter how much others say, including the advice me and others give you, nobody knows your relationship like you and your partner. Trust yourself.
In regards to the whole "I havent experienced the world" thought, the way I approached it with my fiancee, is that we would do that together. Nobody says you have to do that alone. In reality, if you dont do this with her, you will likely do it with friends. Your serious gf/fiancee/wife should also be your best friend. If you dont have the sense of friendship and love for experiencing the world as a couple, then something may be lacking. I love nothing more than to have my fiance there to travel with, to try new things with, be it something far away and crazy, or just something simple like trying to cook a new type of food. If you cant see yourself experiencing life, with that person next to you, then you should question whether or not you are truly meant to be together. Dont forget, when youre married, the idea is that they will be beside you until the day you no longer exist. Thats a long time. Theres two ways to look at that, thats a lot of time to experience life together, or thats a long time to have to spend together. If you think the latter, then you likely arent ready.
In my relationship, the idea of "getting married too young" has never been a factor. Were both adults, we love each other, theres nobody that makes me happier, and she feels the same. You cant start a marriage when there is doubt involved. You have to be willing to fully give yourself to the other person. Really, what I noticed, is that every big event, our 1 year anniversary, our engagement, etc... felt no different than the day before. That is how I think it should be if you fully love each other. The night I proposed, we were out partying in Vegas with another couple (two friends we spend a lot of time with), and they asked us about 3 or 4 hours after the engagement, "How does it feel!!!?!?!?" Our response was "it actually doesnt feel any different, were just excited for the future and all the things we will get to keep doing together". I am 100% sure that our wedding will feel the same. It will be a fun party, with all our closest friends and family, but we wont feel any different toward each other, because were both already "all in".
That being said, if you two love each other, I wouldnt throw it away for some undefined idea of greener pastures. The mind is naturally inquisitive, and you will always wonder what else is out there, but that doesnt mean that you will be able to find better. You might want to test out the waters, go on an adventure, go travel somewhere, do something crazy fun and exciting that you think you really want to do before you "settle down". Do something you want, and something she wants, but do it together. See if doing these things you imagined doing, feel "right" with the other person there. If you think she is really the one, but the timing isnt right, or you have some nervousness, throw yourselves out there, and at least give it the best shot you are capable of. You wont regret anything if you put everything you possibly could into it, and you exhausted all other avenues. If you just give up easily, you can likely end up regreting that decision for the rest of your life.
Sorry for the wall of text, but I hope you got something useful out of it. Either way, good luck and I wish you all the best.
Thanks alot Focuspants. First and foremost, congratulations on your upcoming marriage!! Your input is indeed something I have been looking for. This was really helpful and I will try to assert what you have mentioned into my life. I guess I have to figure out if the timing is right for me or if I have 'other' doubts in my mind.
On March 28 2012 22:04 EngrishTeacher wrote: Holy shit 5 years and no sex?
Religion is a powerful thing. I'm really jealous, not for anything else but your faith. I honestly wish I could believe in something so strongly, I blame my atheist upbringing for ruining my chance at the first leap of faith.
Seriously, not being sarcastic or anything. Mad props for your willpower.
Indeed it is a powerful thing, but i don't see how you couldn't believe in a religion? Just suspend your logical reasoning in the spiritual department and all should come to you. Pick whichever one you want, not that it really matters.
Yah, a few quadrillion times easier said than done.
Also, OP should keep in mind that his GF is 2 years older.
That doesn't seem like too much of a factor now, but 10-20 years down the road... when he's in his 30-40s and successful, having an old aging wife in menopause could affect his relationship. As shallow as this fact seems to be, it is something to consider.
... what? I don't even ...
Presumably, men and women both age over time, so when she's old, he'll be old; while she's ageing, he'll be ageing. I might even dare to say that just as you're predicting his success, she might also be successful. If I were a true radical, I would posit the idea that the age gap might become less of an issue as they grow old (together!) - a 45 year old and a 43 year old are likely to be closer to the same place in life than they, say, an 18 year old and a 16 year old.
Also, unless you're a gay man, your long-term relationship is probably going to have to deal with menopause at some point.
Erm ok, misunderstanding here. Of course a man has to deal with a menopausing wife at SOME point, but the fact of the matter is, tons of successful men in their 40s or even 50s have younger (sometimes much younger) wives in their 20-30s while the opposite is not often true at all. Once a woman reaches her 40s, or even 30s by certain standards, she loses most of her appeal to men. Again, for men it's much different, just think of any of the male Hollywood celebrities in their middle ages; still secksy shmecksy, no?
I've noticed this pervasive phenomenon with my time in China this year; most (90%+) of the younger female co-workers/friends that I've talked to, in their early-mid twenties, are looking to date men in their 30s or at least their late 20s. Of course values are different between person to person, but increasingly I've also found that most of my younger male friends are delaying marriage later and later, and this is backed up by statistics as well. So tentatively speaking for the majority of men, although I appreciate the importance of compatibility, I'm a horny creature, a prisoner of hormones and I would like my future wife to be both compatible with me and younger than me when I do marry her in my 30s. I'd like to not only love her as a life-long companion when I'm in my 40s in the psychological sense, but in the physical sense as well.
Maybe I'm a little bit too pragmatic having been through quite a few relationships, but you can't deny the fact that physical appearance/sex appeal is an important part of relationships, especially the life-long one.
What is precluding you from loving someone your own age when you're in your 40s? Because she may be going through menopause?
I can't back this up with figures, but I would argue that the reason that women may be attracted to men who are older than them is because in contemporary society, older men tend to have more social stability (and/or status), and if you subscribe to biological determinism in any sense, stability is an attractive quality because it's a good environment in which to raise offspring. Conversely, as you say, men are attracted to younger women because, well, they're more attractive, which is an indicator of fertility and good genes, etc. So perhaps it's a little incongruent that physiologically speaking, women supposedly reach their sexual peak at an older age than men - so, theoretically, a couple would have the most compatible sex drive when the man is in his late teens/early-twenties and the woman is in her early thirties.
Sigh, you're still missing the point here so I'll put it very bluntly:
Let's say you're a man 30 years of age. When you're given a choice between marrying a 35 year old or 25 year old given equal compatibility, which would you prefer? Let's say you're 30 and you married a 35 year old, if you were given a magical wish to make your wife 10 years younger, would you not take it? Some may prefer older women; but most prefer younger ones, I don't think there's an argument here.
In essence: testosterone is a pretty powerful hormone, its levels in men drop with age but it's not until you're an (really) old man that you stop wanting to have sex. Would you rather fuck a 30 year old woman when you're 40, or a 50 year old one? When given the chance to choose NOW (billions of choices here), WHY NOT choose someone who's both compatible and younger than you over someone who's compatible but older?
He's talking about a 2 year difference, not a 20 year difference. The issues with a 20 year difference are far greater than when she'll hit menopause relative to your libido.
The idea of "prisoner of hormones" is a whole bunch of bullshit, unless you're literally going through puberty. If you're in a good relationship, you'd still be attracted to each other. The idea that female sex drives curbs off simply because of an age is a myth. Any nursing home horror stories will tell you that - there's an STD problem in nursing homes now.
The sex won't stop, unless it had already stopped for other reasons (the incompatibility.) The hormonal problems that do exist are for both men and women and there's drugs for both men and women.
Presumably, men and women both age over time, so when she's old, he'll be old; while she's ageing, he'll be ageing. I might even dare to say that just as you're predicting his success, she might also be successful. If I were a true radical, I would posit the idea that the age gap might become less of an issue as they grow old (together!) - a 45 year old and a 43 year old are likely to be closer to the same place in life than they, say, an 18 year old and a 16 year old.
Also, unless you're a gay man, your long-term relationship is probably going to have to deal with menopause at some point.
You are right khaydarin. As we grow older, the age gap is almost non existent and is of no concern. However, when we started dating, she was like 20 and I was 18. I would say that is a huge gap of 2 years of life at that age. My parents disliked this when we began going out, but when I hit around 21, they became supportive of us. I'm not worried about growing old together! It is inevitable!
On March 29 2012 20:17 affinity_12 wrote: To the OP: if it's too early for you, then postpone marriage. If the woman you're with truly loves you then she will respect your decision and stay with you. You don't want to fall into the trap of relationship problems from marrying too early just for the sake of it. You have to have a level of control and realize that this is a significant decision. If you have no control over the situation, then there's a high possibility that things won't work out well after marriage.
As much as I want to, she wants to get married at 28/29 ish and that is only a couple years left. If I don't give her assurance of marriage, things will probably fall apart (I really have taken a chunk of her time, and vice versa). This is really about me but to me, about her as well. I am going to give it a hard thought and make a decision in the upcoming week.
On March 29 2012 21:37 Boonbag wrote: You sound extremly arrogant, immature and most of it, much of a prick.
Sorry.
Thanks. I don't think I ever asked for your puny opinion on how you think about me.
I don't think much of it, its just the way your op sounds.
this especially :
"1. My girlfriend and I would be considered a top 1% in our age group in income, specs, and visuals. This means we can get married if we wanted to, as we can support ourselves no problem, but also, if we seek new opportunities, we would have 0 difficulties in doing so. 2. My lifelong friends who always gives good and honest opinions have always supported our relationship, but now that we are facing these kind of issues (decision on marriage), they say I have more than enough potential to go even bigger, and that I should not settle down at such young age. My parents also wants me to look for more opportunities in life, that I have settled down too quickly, and have not lived up to my full potential."
Every single word in it just goes to show at best how mentally young you are.
The way you picture your relationship is high school level, so talking about getting married is quite fun.
Besides that, you don't 'get married" or "break up".
First off you can live with someone even your entire life without beeing married to him / her. This already voids quite a bit the whole dilemna (unless you're a religious folk).
Secondly, thinking about breaking up beeing the only alternative to getting married is a tad extreme (could actually mean you're not mature enough to engage yourself with someone of a more lengthy period).
Your so-called "self potential" has pretty much nothing to do with your love life (unless you suffer from a massive sexual / self confidence nevrosis).
At last, the way you see it, and how it looks, feels more like you're afraid somewhat, of not beeing able to keep her (maybe you don't even realise it, but you express pretty clearly the fear).
Maybe you feel like you need to break up, for these various reasons, because its a way to supress the fear I spoke about and actually "change" out that jerk like full of himself thing that carries your post (aka in meeting other persons and opening yourself to someone else than the single person that makes you feel yourself as a whole).
On March 29 2012 21:37 Boonbag wrote: You sound extremly arrogant, immature and most of it, much of a prick.
Sorry.
Thanks. I don't think I ever asked for your puny opinion on how you think about me.
I don't think much of it, its just the way your op sounds.
this especially :
"1. My girlfriend and I would be considered a top 1% in our age group in income, specs, and visuals. This means we can get married if we wanted to, as we can support ourselves no problem, but also, if we seek new opportunities, we would have 0 difficulties in doing so. 2. My lifelong friends who always gives good and honest opinions have always supported our relationship, but now that we are facing these kind of issues (decision on marriage), they say I have more than enough potential to go even bigger, and that I should not settle down at such young age. My parents also wants me to look for more opportunities in life, that I have settled down too quickly, and have not lived up to my full potential."
Every single word in it just goes to show at best how mentally young you are.
The way you picture your relationship is high school level, so talking about getting married is quite fun.
Besides that, you don't 'get married" or "break up".
First off you can live with someone even your entire life without beeing married to him / her. This already voids quite a bit the whole dilemna (unless you're a religious folk).
Secondly, thinking about breaking up beeing the only alternative to getting married is a tad extreme (could actually mean you're not mature enough to engage yourself with someone of a more lengthy period).
Your so-called "self potential" has pretty much nothing to do with your love life (unless you suffer from a massive sexual / self confidence nevrosis).
At last, the way you see it, and how it looks, feels more like you're afraid somewhat, of not beeing able to keep her (maybe you don't even realise it, but you express pretty clearly the fear).
Maybe you feel like you need to break up, for these various reasons, because its a way to supress the fear I spoke about and actually "change" out that jerk like full of himself thing that carries your post (aka in meeting other persons and opening yourself to someone else than the single person that makes you feel yourself as a whole)..
so... you write without much thinking without reading the entire thread. Sounds extremely stupid, immature and most of it, much of a prick. Keep your opinion to yourself, and I guess in your view, stating my financial situation to back up that I am 'capable' of getting married in a marriage thread is arrogant. From almost all marriage related threads I've read over the course of my life, (Many apart from TL) all the OP states their, and spouses' specs and general financial info.
No, every single word in there just factually states what situation I am in. This is not what I think, this is what it is. And these were written to give an idea of the fundamentals that I have that will prevent the questions of "Aren't you too young to be getting married financially?"
I have stated this already in other posts, but of course, you are too ignorant to mention that. Now tell me, are you qualified to say I am mentally young and that the marriage we have been considering (for more than a year) is a what? highschool level? That is straight up insulting
1. Living together for your life without getting married, you do that. I don't want to do that. I find that extremely stupid. What are you going to tell your kid when he asks you, "why aren't you guys married?". What do you gain from NOT getting married if you are going to live with her? Is this sort of like an open relationship? You have all of that, I am too conservative to even consider such an option. Most of all, she would be extremely offended.
2. No, breakup or marriage is not extreme. I have again stated in detail what SITUATION I am in, hence why I stated everything there that you THINK is arrogant. She is OLDER than me wanting to get married SOON. I have been in relationship for like 5 years now and you say I am not mature enough to engage in a lengthy period? I have to make the decision soon (because she wants assurance), I don't think you understand the point of this thread at all.. if you are going to troll, do it elsewhere
I don't fear for the breakup. It is what it will be if I cannot give her the assurance. I have accepted that and I am trying to make a sane decision. Potential isn't something that I thought of, it is what I have heard from everyone. It matters not to the decision that I will make regarding our relationship.
haha it's funny how different cultural viewpoints clash. The whole "sex before marriage" and 동거 (living together before marriage) issues are usually frowned upon in Korean culture, and it's not as rare as in the west to find a Korean girl who doesn't want to do either before marriage. You guys just need to realize that cultures can have different viewpoints on these topics.
I myself am with an older gf (I'm 28 she's 30) and it's been only a year, but she is just as how you describe your gf (except she's atheist and cooks some boss korean food :D ). I feel like she's my best friend and I would be torn up if I lost her. As someone else has already said, if you have no doubts that you want to experience the world with her instead of bemoaning about how long you have to spend time solely with her, then you should think about committing to her. Otherwise you aren't ready or should move on to someone else. I know I'm not ready atm, but I feel like I'll have to face the same questions later down the road (maybe next year?) so this thread has been quite useful in learning about what people think regarding this. Whatever you decide, you should have no doubts about it and have conviction that it's the right decision. GL~
p.s. The way you portray your friends as manwhores who bang anything that moves, it seems not surprising that they oppose your choice of settling down.
On March 29 2012 21:37 Boonbag wrote: You sound extremly arrogant, immature and most of it, much of a prick.
Sorry.
Thanks. I don't think I ever asked for your puny opinion on how you think about me.
I don't think much of it, its just the way your op sounds.
this especially :
"1. My girlfriend and I would be considered a top 1% in our age group in income, specs, and visuals. This means we can get married if we wanted to, as we can support ourselves no problem, but also, if we seek new opportunities, we would have 0 difficulties in doing so. 2. My lifelong friends who always gives good and honest opinions have always supported our relationship, but now that we are facing these kind of issues (decision on marriage), they say I have more than enough potential to go even bigger, and that I should not settle down at such young age. My parents also wants me to look for more opportunities in life, that I have settled down too quickly, and have not lived up to my full potential."
Every single word in it just goes to show at best how mentally young you are.
The way you picture your relationship is high school level, so talking about getting married is quite fun.
so... you write without much thinking without reading the entire thread. Sounds extremely stupid, immature and most of it, much of a prick. Keep your opinion to yourself, and I guess in your view, stating my financial situation to back up that I am 'capable' of getting married in a marriage thread is arrogant. From almost all marriage related threads I've read over the course of my life, (Many apart from TL) all the OP states their, and spouses' specs and general financial info.
No, every single word in there just factually states what situation I am in. This is not what I think, this is what it is. And these were written to give an idea of the fundamentals that I have that will prevent the questions of "Aren't you too young to be getting married financially?"
I have stated this already in other posts, but of course, you are too ignorant to mention that. Now tell me, are you qualified to say I am mentally young and that the marriage we have been considering (for more than a year) is a what? highschool level? That is straight up insulting
You don't need to browse internet forums to make yourself an opinion about marrying someone. Marrying isn't a skill or a job or a college assignement !
The only question you ask really here is "Am I too young to get married ?" Common answer would usually given your age / location / culture / life experience tend to be "yes". At your age, usually the idea of marriage you have is "candid". But "marriage" is a very outdated institution. What you should first and foremost consider are your feelings towards the person and just living with him/ her. Everything else than that, course of life will take care of and bring you upon making decisions. But the way you formulate your dilemna is pretty much something you force upon your couple more than anything else (and that's why its so extreeme.)
edit : you're already "way too conservative" lol. Oh, nvm then !
On March 29 2012 21:55 spacemonkey4eve wrote: haha it's funny how different cultural viewpoints clash. The whole "sex before marriage" and 동거 (living together before marriage) issues are usually frowned upon in Korean culture, and it's not as rare as in the west to find a Korean girl who doesn't want to do either before marriage. You guys just need to realize that cultures can have different viewpoints on these topics.
I myself am with an older gf (I'm 28 she's 30) and it's been only a year, but she is just as how you describe your gf (except she's atheist and cooks some boss korean food :D ). I feel like she's my best friend and I would be torn up if I lost her. As someone else has already said, if you have no doubts that you want to experience the world with her instead of bemoaning about how long you have to spend time solely with her, then you should think about committing to her. Otherwise you aren't ready or should move on to someone else. I know I'm not ready atm, but I feel like I'll have to face the same questions later down the road (maybe next year?) so this thread has been quite useful in learning about what people think regarding this. Whatever you decide, you should have no doubts about it and have conviction that it's the right decision. GL~
p.s. The way you portray your friends as manwhores who bang anything that moves, it seems not surprising that they oppose your choice of settling down.
Ha, you are correct about that! Really, it is the culture that leaves that out of the equation for us. Most of all, SHE would be against living together.
This thread has progressed much since the opening post, and I have learned much from reading many of the great comments. As I am spending more of my alone time, I am seeing how important she is to me and of course she is my best friend. I am just stressed out of the fact that I have to make a decision soon, and I feel that we are still not ready 100%, (although getting there) but we know we would be great together until the end of time. I hope you make a great decision too. Can't go wrong with beautiful Korean women who cooks boss Korean food :O SO JEALOUS!! xD
p.s. my friends being manwhores... was a reply to some people mentioning their friends are animals sleeping with different women every night. They aren't really manwhores like this except one of them which I pretty much ignore the opinion of. Others get into flurry of short/long term relationships and tend to give opinions from their heart.
On March 29 2012 21:56 Boonbag wrote:
You don't need to browse internet forums to make yourself an opinion about marrying someone. Marrying isn't a skill or a job or a college assignement !
The only question you ask really here is "Am I too young to get married ?" Common answer would usually given your age / location / culture / life experience tend to be "yes". At your age, usually the idea of marriage you have is "candid". But "marriage" is a very outdated institution. What you should first and foremost consider are your feelings towards the person and just living with him/ her. Everything else than that, course of life will take care of and bring you upon making decisions. But the way you formulate your dilemna is pretty much something you force upon your couple more than anything else (and that's why its so extreeme.)
edit : you're already "way too conservative" lol. Oh, nvm then !
See, if you post threads like this, we can have some mature discussions about the matter. Marrying isn't a skill of course, but that is your opinion that one does not need to get opinions on marrying someone. I certainly have learned much about what people go through and what people did in a similar situations like me. Would you say all the posts in this thread coming from already married people are useless?
Marriage is a very important cornerstone in our culture. Again, this is really more for her than me, and I have to respect that. I don't mind for god's sake if I be a cheapass and do a wedding with only a couple of friends. But I won't because she wants marriage to be memorable, with everyone we know attending and blessing us. Everyone has different opinions and wants on the matter, and 'marriage' happens to be very symbolic to us. You think it is an outdated institution and I get where you are coming from. I shouldn't be bound the the fact of getting married, but instead consider my feeling towards her. I entirely agree because although this is marriage/breakup topic, it really depends on whether I love her or not. However, end result is the same nonetheless..
I plan too much about my future. So when I make a decision, I try to go down the least damaging path (or most efficient), regardless of life decision, job, etc. Seems like a really strict, boring life, but that is the way I am. So it is really hard for me to leave everything to the course of life to flow naturally. We will have to see.
On March 28 2012 22:04 EngrishTeacher wrote: Holy shit 5 years and no sex?
Religion is a powerful thing. I'm really jealous, not for anything else but your faith. I honestly wish I could believe in something so strongly, I blame my atheist upbringing for ruining my chance at the first leap of faith.
Seriously, not being sarcastic or anything. Mad props for your willpower.
Indeed it is a powerful thing, but i don't see how you couldn't believe in a religion? Just suspend your logical reasoning in the spiritual department and all should come to you. Pick whichever one you want, not that it really matters.
Yah, a few quadrillion times easier said than done.
Also, OP should keep in mind that his GF is 2 years older.
That doesn't seem like too much of a factor now, but 10-20 years down the road... when he's in his 30-40s and successful, having an old aging wife in menopause could affect his relationship. As shallow as this fact seems to be, it is something to consider.
... what? I don't even ...
Presumably, men and women both age over time, so when she's old, he'll be old; while she's ageing, he'll be ageing. I might even dare to say that just as you're predicting his success, she might also be successful. If I were a true radical, I would posit the idea that the age gap might become less of an issue as they grow old (together!) - a 45 year old and a 43 year old are likely to be closer to the same place in life than they, say, an 18 year old and a 16 year old.
Also, unless you're a gay man, your long-term relationship is probably going to have to deal with menopause at some point.
Erm ok, misunderstanding here. Of course a man has to deal with a menopausing wife at SOME point, but the fact of the matter is, tons of successful men in their 40s or even 50s have younger (sometimes much younger) wives in their 20-30s while the opposite is not often true at all. Once a woman reaches her 40s, or even 30s by certain standards, she loses most of her appeal to men. Again, for men it's much different, just think of any of the male Hollywood celebrities in their middle ages; still secksy shmecksy, no?
I've noticed this pervasive phenomenon with my time in China this year; most (90%+) of the younger female co-workers/friends that I've talked to, in their early-mid twenties, are looking to date men in their 30s or at least their late 20s. Of course values are different between person to person, but increasingly I've also found that most of my younger male friends are delaying marriage later and later, and this is backed up by statistics as well. So tentatively speaking for the majority of men, although I appreciate the importance of compatibility, I'm a horny creature, a prisoner of hormones and I would like my future wife to be both compatible with me and younger than me when I do marry her in my 30s. I'd like to not only love her as a life-long companion when I'm in my 40s in the psychological sense, but in the physical sense as well.
Maybe I'm a little bit too pragmatic having been through quite a few relationships, but you can't deny the fact that physical appearance/sex appeal is an important part of relationships, especially the life-long one.
What is precluding you from loving someone your own age when you're in your 40s? Because she may be going through menopause?
I can't back this up with figures, but I would argue that the reason that women may be attracted to men who are older than them is because in contemporary society, older men tend to have more social stability (and/or status), and if you subscribe to biological determinism in any sense, stability is an attractive quality because it's a good environment in which to raise offspring. Conversely, as you say, men are attracted to younger women because, well, they're more attractive, which is an indicator of fertility and good genes, etc. So perhaps it's a little incongruent that physiologically speaking, women supposedly reach their sexual peak at an older age than men - so, theoretically, a couple would have the most compatible sex drive when the man is in his late teens/early-twenties and the woman is in her early thirties.
Sigh, you're still missing the point here so I'll put it very bluntly:
Let's say you're a man 30 years of age. When you're given a choice between marrying a 35 year old or 25 year old given equal compatibility, which would you prefer? Let's say you're 30 and you married a 35 year old, if you were given a magical wish to make your wife 10 years younger, would you not take it? Some may prefer older women; but most prefer younger ones, I don't think there's an argument here.
In essence: testosterone is a pretty powerful hormone, its levels in men drop with age but it's not until you're an (really) old man that you stop wanting to have sex. Would you rather fuck a 30 year old woman when you're 40, or a 50 year old one? When given the chance to choose NOW (billions of choices here), WHY NOT choose someone who's both compatible and younger than you over someone who's compatible but older?
Seriously, what does age have to do with anything? What does the amount of days of someone has been alive on this planet have to do with the relationship? You don't seemed concerned about psychological age, or experience, or maturity, so it seems you're referring exclusively to biological age. You haven't, perhaps surprisingly, raised reproductive value as an issue, so clearly that's not what you're attempting to address.
My guess? You're talking about age, but what you're really referring to is sex appeal and perhaps also sex drive. So it's not a matter of choosing someone who has had fewer days on the planet than you, over someone who has had more days on the planet than you, it's about choosing someone who is more attractive over less attractive. Which makes for a plausible argument when you frame it like that, but then, when you think about it, it doesn't actually have anything to do with the OP's issue (or non-issue, from where I stand) of being two years younger than his partner.
On March 27 2012 11:57 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: I want to ask you TLers who have dated for a very long time since young age, how you guys kept it going, how did you resist all the temptation, without having experienced the world at all (pretty much knew one girl for the whole time). If there are any highschool sweethearts, you guys can probably tell me a perfect example of how you guys managed. And for those that decided to break up, how did it end for you guys? Was it for the similar reasons? How did life fare for you afterwards?
I can't speak for myself, but I can speak for others:
A friend dated the same girl all throughout college. He was a year older. They got married after he graduated with a decent job. When she graduates this year her job will require him to relocate. In the process of all this he turned down his dream job 1200 miles away and ruined any chance of getting a Masters degree before the age of 30. He wishes he still had the chance.
You're stuck between a rock and a hard place. You're either going to wind up like this guy or the other poster who said he's alone with videogames. Part of committing yourself to one person for a lifetime means you're giving up other women, not necessarily life experiences. However, if you want to have a bunch of new life experiences it has to be on BOTH terms, not just your own. If you're not ready to give up that freedom or there are experiences you still want to chase then you really should go for them. It will not be how you planned, but at least you'll know. Moving to a new city after college isn't all it's cracked up to be either. It's a lot of "go to work, come home, play videogames, fall asleep". Finding somewhere you fit in can be very difficult.
If you haven't already, talk to your girlfriend about all these new experiences you want to have and see if she's on board.
One day, I'll make a book out of all the girls blog on TL. I'm going to be rich ...
What strikes me in your post is that you employ qualitative adjectives to describe yourself and your girlfriend such as "potentiel", "top 1%", "settle down" or "go bigger". You might want to think about what you wants to be/represent, not what you want to have/possess.
The truth is all men ask this insanely selfish question "Can I do better?" It is a very taunting question that drives apart marriages and destroys families. The only way to answer it is to have enough life experience: i.e. go out, explore your dating options. Men who settle very early on in their lifetime tend to have this problem most often.
If you're having second thoughts, it's best to wait. Marriage is a commitment, and if you cannot say "til death do us part" then don't.
I'll just be honest and say being in the same community with the same person with the same job and same lifestyle since your inception sounds incredibly depressing to me.
I'm more turned off by your community than anything about her. :|
On March 29 2012 22:39 Otolia wrote: One day, I'll make a book out of all the girls blog on TL. I'm going to be rich ...
What strikes me in your post is that you employ qualitative adjectives to describe yourself and your girlfriend such as "potentiel", "top 1%", "settle down" or "go bigger". You might want to think about what you wants to be/represent, not what you want to have/possess.
I'd buy that book before I bought any book on Starcraft. Wouldn't be able to put it down
If you actually care for each other and can live together, then marriage won't change anything; all it does is slap a label on your relationship that gives you a few more rights in the eyes of the government that you wouldn't have otherwise. You don't derive the worth of your relationship from some guy telling you, congrats, you're married!
The thing that will change is that you two will live together, and that will definitely have more of an effect than getting "married." But since you're not moving in with her until you're married, you won't know how compatible you are until it's (potentially) too late.
Additionally, you're always going to have thoughts about "what if?" no matter what you choose. What if I married her? What if I didn't marry her? What if I moved in with her beforehand? What if, what if, what if. It's not going to go away. The most you can do is learn to live with it. (Some people don't live with the "what if" syndrome, of course, or they develop it later on in life, but you seem to be one of those who're stricken by it.)
On March 30 2012 00:38 Jibba wrote: I'll just be honest and say being in the same community with the same person with the same job and same lifestyle since your inception sounds incredibly depressing to me.
Also, I agree so much with this. It's depressing just thinking about it. I'm not the biggest fan of hard, fast change, but dear lord, some change would be fine, and living in the same area for that many years is not my idea of a great life. I'd get too itchy.
On March 30 2012 00:38 Jibba wrote: I'll just be honest and say being in the same community with the same person with the same job and same lifestyle since your inception sounds incredibly depressing to me.
I'm more turned off by your community than anything about her. :|
If I do decide to get married though, I am quite worried about cooking and household work. She is a career woman type, so she is busy at work all the time, at home or at office. I am more relaxed working type, working a secure but boring job. So this might be something I might have to sacrifise (Doing more household work myself) to make things work, because I can't stand the house being dirty. An ideal wife for me would be a career woman that also loves cooking... she fits almost all criteria but she hates cooking. If she enjoys cooking, I told her that I could do all the laundry, vacuuming, dish washing.. etc. This is something I really wanna check before getting married, and it is really too bad that living together isn't an option for me.
I really, really hope you are trolling. If you're not, then I find it quite fitting you haven't gotten laid in 5 years.
I think a lot of your doubt stems from being in such a homogenous society. Where abouts do you live if you dont mind me asking? I am from Toronot, and we experience tons of different cultures on a daily basis. We engage with all kinds of people, with all kinds of backgrounds, and all kinds of different insights on issues. People here tend to travel quite a bit also, and the whole "I wonder what else is out there" idea is not really a big issue. We feel like we have access to it.
I think the 2 of you need to step out of your bubble, and like I suggested in my previous long post, go do something new, somewhere else. A lot of people from small communities that stay at home and dont engage the world, have no idea of whats out there, and it seems like youre curious to find out. Take that step before you submit to settling into a lifestyle which seems to be extremely routine and sheltered.
Again, you can do this together. Experiencing life, and experiencing the world does not have to be an individual activity. Doing it with others is extremely enjoyable and rewarding, and who better to do it with than the one you love. If you dont enjoy your time doing this together, or you dont see eye to eye (you want to adventure more, and she wants to settle down), then at least you know that you tried!
yea, the more the OP posts, the less I can relate to anything he says =\. Really sounds like he's posting from the '50s or something. good luck with whatever you decide to do, but I don't think you're going to get any useful advice here because it seems like all these responses are coming from people who live in 21st century cultures.
Ya, I am curious about that also. A top 1% dream job where I live is like CEO of an investment firm, or high profile criminal defence attorney. You dont really have those sorts of positions in a small town, which it sounds like he lives in. He is Canadian, and we are generally extremely liberal and secular, by the sounds of it, he would likely live in a small town in one of the prairie provinces, or somewhere extremely rural in on of the more populated provinces. Those small religous communities are few and far between around here.
On March 30 2012 02:17 Focuspants wrote: Ya, I am curious about that also. A top 1% dream job where I live is like CEO of an investment firm, or high profile criminal defence attorney.
On March 30 2012 02:17 Focuspants wrote: Ya, I am curious about that also. A top 1% dream job where I live is like CEO of an investment firm, or high profile criminal defence attorney.
Man those sound like horrible dream jobs.
I am speaking in purely financial terms. The OP said his and his gf's dream jobs landed them in the top 1% of income for his age. You need to have some extremely high profile job to claim that here, so I am just curious what they may be where he lives.
On March 30 2012 02:17 Focuspants wrote: Ya, I am curious about that also. A top 1% dream job where I live is like CEO of an investment firm, or high profile criminal defence attorney.
Man those sound like horrible dream jobs.
I am speaking in purely financial terms. The OP said his and his gf's dream jobs landed them in the top 1% of income for his age. You need to have some extremely high profile job to claim that here, so I am just curious what they may be where he lives.
I said my job is top 1% of my age group not my dream job.. count how many students graduate out of university each year. Now count how many of those make more than say 60k per year right off the bat. That is already top 1% of ALL graduates. Add in security and benefits and even more so.
As I read more posts from you guys I feel that you guys don't respect other cultures. This is supposed to be an international community. I've read many opinions on how you should live together blabla. I agree but I also gave u the reasoning why I cannot. There is no need to slam it on me that I live in the 50s. Please go read the Korean looks thread and such. We are frowned upon heavily and there are lots of negative views on such matter. This is the community I was born and raised in and I do not regret because there are many better things that you guys will never understand. I am from Toronto and this city has to be the most multicultural city ever. At the same time itis most segregated as well. You go to school and look. Koreans Chinese Indians middleeasterns Russians everyone hangs out in their own group. The actually multicultural merging groups are minorities. Even at work it's heavily segregated. There is plenty of racism that just doesn't show on the outside. I've lived in Toronto suburbs and downtown for half of my life and this is what I see. Despite the negativity it is a great city to live in and I can go to all kinds of restaurants. I plan on staying here because there is no reason to leave. I am content with an enjoyable happy life taking vacations to elsewhere every year. May not be most exciting but all my families are here and I like it this way.
I have tried to open up and accept many of your views. I want to do as such in some ways but there are constraints and choices and I ask that you guys respect at least that. Also it seems people are rather focusing on minor details than the main issue I wanted help with.
P.s. I don't understand why some people think I am trolling. Household work being one of the most important and time consuming part in daily life is unimportant? Isn't this something that you guys would check before marriage? If you have a lazy wife who doesn't wanna do any housework would you marry her? What is so troll about that??
For those going off topic or think that I am worried about some other things.. let me summarize.
We are in our mid twenties working and dated for long long time. I am under pressure of giving her assurance of marriage very soon. I have postponed this long enough. She wants to marry me but I am younger and I am afraid if I am making a premature decision on getting married. I love her but I have not lived long enough to have the actual knowledge of how other people are like. As I have known only people from school work, church, people from my old part time jobs and etc, I am asking if I should go with my feeling( which could be too rushed and I have fear that I am making this decision prematurely) or if I should wait til I'm older to see things more clearly.
If you live in Toronto, and somehow have a community that is closed off and set in its ways, the only way that is at all possible, is if you entirely spend all of your time with your church community. I thought you meant community in the sense of houses in a small area, where everyone knows each other, not in the church community sense.
You and I have had very different experiences in this city. The majority of my friends are multicultural. I dont know how you have such a "white" community as you mentioned in previous posts. You can easily engage in other cultures all day long, every day of the year here. We have one of the most multicultural cities in the entire world.
I can sympathize with your situation, as we had a friend in high school who was part of an evangelical church, and I understand (although dont agree with) the lifestyle. To each their own, just understand that being closed off to some of the ideas being thrown at you comes with inherent risk. If you havent spent time traveling together, living together, or experiencing the myriad of things you could be experiencing living in a city like ours, you can easily find yourself regretting a lot. I would take some time to engage the city some more. I have learned a lot about different cultures, and its fun spending time with friends and their families, and seeing their take on life. I think it would do the two of you some good to step out of your bubble a bit. I dont mean you need to throw away everything you believe in or grew up with, just go out with an open mind and see what the world has to offer. You have the luxury of being able to do a lot of that in the city you live in.
For the record, I havent experienced any serious cases of racism in my 24 years of living here. It obviously happens, but it is nowhere near normal.
P.s. I don't understand why some people think I am trolling. Household work being one of the most important and time consuming part in daily life is unimportant? Isn't this something that you guys would check before marriage? If you have a lazy wife who doesn't wanna do any housework would you marry her? What is so troll about that??
1 - We suspect trolling because you sound overtly sexist.
2 - Isn't this something you guys would check before marriage? Yes. That's why you live together. Are we compatible sexually? Live together and find out. Will I end up having regrets if I join my life with this person? Live together and find out.
You ask questions that cannot possibly be answered without living with your girlfriend. That's why people are giving answers that don't seem accepting of your culture. I was raised religiously as well. My parents and extended family are very embarrassed that I live w/ my gf without being married. I have questions similar to yours. Unlike you, I'm willing to inconvenience my parents and make them feel bad in order to not rush into the biggest decision anyone can make.
Your choices are to either move in together and find the answers to most of your questions, or accept whatever social norms you were raised with and flip a coin.
dude it sounds to everyone that you just dont wanna get married right now, you're being pressured into it, you're scared as shit of accepting it and scared as shit of letting it go. if there is one thing that is absolutely 100% certain, there are a fuuuckton of people who will tell you that they themselves got married prematurely and it ended in misery.
we TLers cant really help you because NONE of us have been in the same "no sex before marriage" situation. but we can definitely say for sure that in 5 years time (around the age of 30) you will have a WAY WAY more mature/wisened outlook on life than you do at 25.
I do not go to church anymore. I think it is more of ethnic segregation. You only need to go see uoft campus to see what I mean. Trust me people engaging in multicultural activities( for example fraternity) is extreme minority. As much as multicultural this city is, a lot of people are immigrants. I did have white friends black friends etc but they cannot be the true friends I want because they are of different culture and We think differently. As an immigrant myself I find that I cannot go out and just mingle easily with say white people anymore. I did in high-school but to some extent. People are too different and yes it is OK to just go party together( I do that) but keep in touch, talk about life, stuff like that? Nope. I can't do it nor can any people that I know. I think the second generation people fit together a lot better. Not so true with 1.5 gen. I went to a very white primary and high-school and there were plenty of racism although it wasn't too serious but i did see alot of white superiority .
P.s. I don't understand why some people think I am trolling. Household work being one of the most important and time consuming part in daily life is unimportant? Isn't this something that you guys would check before marriage? If you have a lazy wife who doesn't wanna do any housework would you marry her? What is so troll about that??
1 - We suspect trolling because you sound overtly sexist.
2 - Isn't this something you guys would check before marriage? Yes. That's why you live together. Are we compatible sexually? Live together and find out. Will I end up having regrets if I join my life with this person? Live together and find out.
You ask questions that cannot possibly be answered without living with your girlfriend. That's why people are giving answers that don't seem accepting of your culture. I was raised religiously as well. My parents and extended family are very embarrassed that I live w/ my gf without being married. I have questions similar to yours. Unlike you, I'm willing to inconvenience my parents and make them feel bad in order to not rush into the biggest decision anyone can make.
Your choices are to either move in together and find the answers to most of your questions, or accept whatever social norms you were raised with and flip a coin.
Thanks. I really respect your choice and opinion. I wish I can get the courage to do that. But she would be against that in the first place which sucks.... I hope you don't find that sexist. I really am not. I just can't cook for the love of God. I told her I would do all the housework if she cooks because she is not bad at it. Except... she doesn't enjoy it. Is it still sexist?
P.s. I don't understand why some people think I am trolling. Household work being one of the most important and time consuming part in daily life is unimportant? Isn't this something that you guys would check before marriage? If you have a lazy wife who doesn't wanna do any housework would you marry her? What is so troll about that??
1 - We suspect trolling because you sound overtly sexist.
2 - Isn't this something you guys would check before marriage? Yes. That's why you live together. Are we compatible sexually? Live together and find out. Will I end up having regrets if I join my life with this person? Live together and find out.
You ask questions that cannot possibly be answered without living with your girlfriend. That's why people are giving answers that don't seem accepting of your culture. I was raised religiously as well. My parents and extended family are very embarrassed that I live w/ my gf without being married. I have questions similar to yours. Unlike you, I'm willing to inconvenience my parents and make them feel bad in order to not rush into the biggest decision anyone can make.
Your choices are to either move in together and find the answers to most of your questions, or accept whatever social norms you were raised with and flip a coin.
Thanks. I really respect your choice and opinion. I wish I can get the courage to do that. But she would be against that in the first place which sucks....
I apologize for being rude. But nobody can help you but yourself. You've either got to make a decision to take action to answer your questions, or just accept whatever life your parents and gf have in mind for you.
Honestly, it sounds like your issue isn't so much with you and your gf, but that you were raised in a conservative culture and are now doubting if its right for you.
On March 30 2012 02:50 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: I said my job is top 1% of my age group not my dream job.. count how many students graduate out of university each year. Now count how many of those make more than say 60k per year right off the bat. That is already top 1% of ALL graduates. Add in security and benefits and even more so.
As I read more posts from you guys I feel that you guys don't respect other cultures. This is supposed to be an international community. I've read many opinions on how you should live together blabla. I agree but I also gave u the reasoning why I cannot. There is no need to slam it on me that I live in the 50s. Please go read the Korean looks thread and such. We are frowned upon heavily and there are lots of negative views on such matter. This is the community I was born and raised in and I do not regret because there are many better things that you guys will never understand. I am from Toronto and this city has to be the most multicultural city ever. At the same time itis most segregated as well. You go to school and look. Koreans Chinese Indians middleeasterns Russians everyone hangs out in their own group. The actually multicultural merging groups are minorities. Even at work it's heavily segregated. There is plenty of racism that just doesn't show on the outside. I've lived in Toronto suburbs and downtown for half of my life and this is what I see. Despite the negativity it is a great city to live in and I can go to all kinds of restaurants. I plan on staying here because there is no reason to leave. I am content with an enjoyable happy life taking vacations to elsewhere every year. May not be most exciting but all my families are here and I like it this way.
I have tried to open up and accept many of your views. I want to do as such in some ways but there are constraints and choices and I ask that you guys respect at least that. Also it seems people are rather focusing on minor details than the main issue I wanted help with.
P.s. I don't understand why some people think I am trolling. Household work being one of the most important and time consuming part in daily life is unimportant? Isn't this something that you guys would check before marriage? If you have a lazy wife who doesn't wanna do any housework would you marry her? What is so troll about that??
From the first google result of "average starting salary for college grads 2011," I get this link that says average salary is somewhere around 50K. I don't really have the time to check a bunch of sources, but suffice to say that I'm not really convinced that 60K is necessarily top 1%. But, whatever, this ultimately isn't that important.
I'm not trying to disrespect your culture, I'm just saying I can't relate to it at all and as such can't give you any good advice, nor do I believe that the vast majority of the people on TL can either. With the limitations that you're allowing your culture and girlfriend to place on what you can and can't do before marriage, your hands are tied and you're basically forced to take a giant risk with marriage.
On March 30 2012 02:57 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: For those going off topic or think that I am worried about some other things.. let me summarize.
We are in our mid twenties working and dated for long long time. I am under pressure of giving her assurance of marriage very soon. I have postponed this long enough. She wants to marry me but I am younger and I am afraid if I am making a premature decision on getting married. I love her but I have not lived long enough to have the actual knowledge of how other people are like. As I have known only people from school work, church, people from my old part time jobs and etc, I am asking if I should go with my feeling( which could be too rushed and I have fear that I am making this decision prematurely) or if I should wait til I'm older to see things more clearly.
I know several people who were married around age 23 or 24. I mentioned one of them before, but now I'll reference a couple others. One couple felt very secure and had no doubts about marriage and another couple took marriage as "the next logical step" and just did it.
The first couple is happily married, happy with their lives, and engage in activities both individually and as a couple. The second couple has many similar traits, but the wife has problems talking with her husband about emotional issues (he tries to analyze and solve instead of just listening). She is very stressed by this and it's already creating a rift between them.
Just like Focuspants said with his fiancee, you don't want there to be any doubts. The husband told me once that there was no doubt in his mind that this was the one for him and that he wasn't missing out on anything marrying her (on the contrary, marrying her brought a new level of fulfillment).
I'll also use myself as an example - my girlfriend wants me to move in with her, but I'm having doubts about it. There is a clash of ideals since she thinks it's just as natural as saying we're dating and I'm having issues because I believe moving in to be closely knit with "marriage-like" committal. I realized that if I didn't stay true to myself I would be doing both her and myself a disservice. I decided that I wouldn't take that step until I felt comfortable. She's not happy about it, almost to the point of breaking up, but if I move forward with this doubt it's not likely to end well for me.
If I were you, I would also wait until the doubt is cleared. Don't do it on your own - talk with her about it. Who knows, she may say something that clears up the doubt. I will say this though - getting married when both parties aren't 100% committed and comfortable is a recipe for disaster.
Mogwai , there was a recent study of Canadian late twenties avg income survey and what late teens wanted to make at that age. Reality was around 30k. BTW average Canadian salary is less than 45k. Also 50k out of school is nonsense unless you are in engineering or comp science.
Wow skterean. Honestly? I do have white black Chinese Indian friends. I meet them few times a year to have dinner. They are just SOOOOO different. They can't understand my culture either and We all respect each others but what I'm saying is are just can't get attached deeper.just like when my Jewish friend somalian friend and I got into a religious debate, there is always a barrier. I try my best to understand and not discriminate but sometimes it is really hard to understand
On March 30 2012 03:16 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: I do not go to church anymore. I think it is more of ethnic segregation. You only need to go see uoft campus to see what I mean. Trust me people engaging in multicultural activities( for example fraternity) is extreme minority. As much as multicultural this city is, a lot of people are immigrants. I did have white friends black friends etc but they cannot be the true friends I want because they are of different culture and We think differently. As an immigrant myself I find that I cannot go out and just mingle easily with say white people anymore. I did in high-school but to some extent. People are too different and yes it is OK to just go party together( I do that) but keep in touch, talk about life, stuff like that? Nope. I can't do it nor can any people that I know. I think the second generation people fit together a lot better. Not so true with 1.5 gen. I went to a very white primary and high-school and there were plenty of racism although it wasn't too serious but i did see alot of white superiority .
I go to U of T. Actually, I am sitting on the 10th floor of Robarts as I type this. U of T has about 80 000 students. I think your issues of not being able to engage in close friendships are actually your issues, not the environments. Naturally with so many people, and most being commuters, it is more difficult to engage in close friendships. My closest friends are still my highschool friends, because you dont spend as much time with anyone as you did with them, there just isnt time to do so.
You have to make a really solid effort to get close to people in such a big community. It isnt an issue of race at all. It is entirely based on the atmosphere of the university. You need to put yourself out there to find what youre looking for. I am a St. Mikes student, and I can tell you that there is a really close knit community of friends there, but you have to be active and engaging to be part of it.
This all plays to the theme I have been hitting on. You just seem somewhat sheltered. I think you have a fear of the unknown, because what you do know, is so enclosed in the bubble you were raised in. Trust me, before you make a decision, just go do something. Take a week off together, go fly somewhere, and just throw yourself into the culture of the place you land in. See how you guys enjoy the experience. If you both like it, you know that the two of you can explore the "unknown" together. If one of you likes it and the other just wants to crawl back into the bubble, it may not work. If you both dont like it and just enjoy it in your bubble, then it may work still. You need to try things. That is what you are telling us. So go try them!
Edit* I dont want this to turn into a religion bashing thread, but here is my honest opinion. I have had friends that I have lost due to their religous convictions, I even study religion in school (I am a philosophy student that focused a lot on all the religion based philosophy courses) and even took a special small program focused on fundamental religion and its inability to coexist with different aspects of society (ranging from social settings, to the political setting, to the scientific community, etc...). A lot of what you are feeling, this distance, is because of your religion. You hold people to certain standards, standards that nobody from outside your community can meet. You likely also feel judged by others, while you judge, and it makes you nervous. Also, you likely try to avoid discussing the matter with people, as it is a contencious topic, and you avoid letting people in. The only people you can feel comfortable fully opening up to, are people within your bubble, because they are the only ones that will fully understand and support you in that way.
Fundamental religious beliefs homogenize groups of people. You seem to be part of that, but you also seem to want more, and want to know what the outside world has to offer, but dont know how to properly engage it. It will take a "leap of faith" just like your beliefs did, only this leap has to be about opening your mind to the world, instead of focusing it around a defined ideal. Its not an easy thing to do, and it can definitely cause tention in your relationship if the other party isnt willing to do this. Is this an issue you are having? or am I not reading you correctly?
I may be biases because I'm an engineering grad. Just try sitting in SF. Or sit in one of engineering class in bahen. The racial segregation is so extreme and bad that I cannot believe this is Canada. My closest friends are from high-school too but only the Korean ones. Other friends they naturally moved away from each other. Russian friend has only Russian friends now. Chinese the same. Etc etc. Even in Roberts go down to cafeteria. Do you see all the Asian kids grouped and talk loudly? I'll bet you they have 0 white friends. Thankfully I'm not that extreme but I can't deny that I feel most comfortable and most fun around my ethnic group.
I should go somewhere take a week vacation or something. I will face some trouble from parents. This culture is that closed lol. I think it's because they're afraid of the word going around and if ur relationship ends badly, ur future girlfriend will know and think negatively of it possibly rejection of marriage from their parents. Hard to explain and it may seem pathetic but that is life. I'm not even worried about what they think really because if I make a decision to stay with her I'm confident I'll marry her.
Edit: I am an atheist lol it really is about culture than religion
It's very, very clear. I have referenced this document dozens of times when negotiating salary, so I know it well. For anyone unfamiliar, PEO is the engineering association in Ontario. APEGGA is the engineering association in Alberta. The average salary in Alberta is higher than the average salary in Ontario, so we cannot draw direct conclusions from the APEGGA study about salaried in Ontario.
Not that it matters, but you could have just said "I'm doing well financially" and been done with it. Saying you're in the top 1% in income and looks is fucking dumb and deserves to be challenged.
On March 30 2012 03:47 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: Edit: I am an atheist lol it really is about culture than religion
Here in may lie one of your problems. She sounds quite fundamental, and you sound like youre being forced to concede to peoples thoughts, ideas, and way of life, be it from your parents, or from her. It sounds like you would like to take time, would like to travel, would like to spend time experiencing life together. It soudns like YOU arent the one against living together, but rather that her, her family, and your family are dictating how you should feel, and how you should live.
If you cant express yourself honestly to her, which it seems like you have difficulty doing, since youre asking annonymous people on the web for answers, instead of just talking to her, then there could be big problems in the future. You need to make her aware of how you feel. You need her to know what you want out of life, and how yorue feeling on your journey with her. It sounds like youre worried she wont accept who you want to be. It sounds like you are afraid of "giving the wrong answer". You twi definitely need to talk honestly and openly about these things.
go on a vacation. bring some condoms. girlfriend optional. test yourself. see if you want the married life or not. or you can just ask her for more time. my girl gave me the same ultimatum. i negotiated 2 more years.
It's very, very clear. I have referenced this document dozens of times when negotiating salary, so I know it well. For anyone unfamiliar, PEO is the engineering association in Ontario. APEGGA is the engineering association in Alberta. The average salary in Alberta is higher than the average salary in Ontario, so we cannot draw direct conclusions from the APEGGA study about salaried in Ontario.
Go to page 26. You can see the mean, level A for all engineers is $65,936. Similarly, the D9 level (top 10%) is $74,800.
I imagine Toronto will be lower, but I can't imagine it being more than 20% lower. But only someone with access to the PEO website can check that.
Edit: We could easily extrapolate based on a normal curve to find the 1%. But it's better to do that with real PEO data than APEGGA data.
OK. I didn't want to get into a silly heated argument about this. But I guess you are asking for it. I've spoken in seminars where I had to compare co-op student salaries, the new grad salaries and etc. It is well known that UofT and Waterloo engineers have the most opportunities and make the most money, and their average co-op internship salary for the year is Around 42,000 for UofT and 39,000 for Waterloo.
I won't look at your sources because I don't have a clue wtf they are. Instead, I will use the credible Canadian Census data from 2006, since income stats from 2011 are not available yet.
Unfortunately, there is no exact stat for my age of 24. So, I will list the relevant stats below.
Total Canadian pop'n = 31,612,897
Age 25-54 with university degree Canadian Born Average income in Toronto = 57,695 Immigrant Average income in Toronto = 37,647
Age 25-29 Pop'n = 842,425 Median earnings = 34,982
Almost ALL median earning >50,000 are Engineers, Mathematicians, nurses, lawyers, pharmacists, armed force, fire fighter and etc. (Engineers are between 50,000 and 55,000 range) All of them added up rounds up to 30,000 people. That makes the group already 3.5% of the entire age group. Now, if you put these earnings and extrapolate in linear line, I would be above the median, hence it cuts the percentage even further. Most of all, I am 24, so this is basically comparing myself to 27 year old who has graduated and has been working for 4 years already.
I did not mean to brag about it, again, IT WAS TO PUT THINGS INTO CONTEXT. Do you really feel the need to bitch about me writing 1% there? Is it important? However I understand it looks fucking dumb and it does look arrogant. But this is not even important and is irrelevant to my original question.
Here's my summary of the situation with regards to why most of us can't give you advice.
1. You say you need more information/advice with regards to marrying this girl.
2. Most of us say, hey, a great way to get more information on the subject is to move in/have a sexual relationship with that girl.
3. You so no, while I'd like to, I can't do that. It is against my cultural norms.
So basically, we're at a roadblock and no one is really going to be able to give you much more advice. I guess there might be someone who might be in a very similar or identical situation as you that could help, but you probably won't find them here. I'm not trying be mean, that is just the way I see it. I know I can't help you, because of the limitations you have prevent you from doing what I would do.
This next part is a little bit of a rant, and is not meant to be offensive, but may come off that way. Ignore it if you like
<rant>
You live in Canada, which means you live in western culture. In western culture, you do whatever the fuck you want to do, within legal boundaries, if you think it will better your life. If you think moving in with this girl will give you a better understanding of the relationship (and it would), you do it. I know that is against "cultural norms" of whatever nation you came from, but guess what, you don't live there anymore, you live here now. Your parents moved you here so you could have a better life, and in the west, that means making your own goddamn decisions, even if your parents don't like it.
I understand different cultural norms. I do. I also understand when outdated/outmoded ways of life stand in the way of good decision making and better ways of life. I'm not trying to say the west has a monopoly on the "good way of life," because believe me, we don't. When it comes to situations like this, though, choice is always better than following other peoples' rules.
I know that won't change your mind. I know the girl wouldn't even like that because it challenges her cultural norms, but that's bullshit, because you would both be better off.
There is an elegant and simple solution to your problem.
Step 1: Propose and buy your girlfriend an engagement ring. Step 2: Delay the marriage indefinitely Step 3: Go out and date other women without your fiancee finding out. Step 4: Make an informed decision on what you want to do. Step 5A: Get married to no-sex 1% girl. Step 5B: Tell her you changed your mind. Get with another girl immediately afterwards to close the door to your ex and give her proper closure.
On March 30 2012 05:40 Chill wrote: Yes, it's important, since there's no way it's true and it deserves to be challenged.
I just did with the census data. Now get off my dick plz
Except you didn't. You used broad data and extrapolated and then justified it by saying how broad the data was. I'm on your dick because it's such a stupid thing to say. I went to school in the same province as you and have a similar education to you and I cannot imagine anyone of my peers claiming what you claimed. It's absurd.
Ya I have a couple friends working as actuaries and CA's, and they make bank. Also have a friend at a marketing firm thats doing pretty well. My fiancee is interviewing for a teaching position, and she would start at ~50k a year with her current accreditations.
Long story short, I know people making upwards of 75k a year that are 24. They do work like 10 hour days, and one even has to work weekends, but shell be making 6 figures in no time. Gotta pay your dues on your way up the totem poll.
On March 30 2012 03:33 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: Wow skterean. Honestly? I do have white black Chinese Indian friends. I meet them few times a year to have dinner. They are just SOOOOO different. They can't understand my culture either and We all respect each others but what I'm saying is are just can't get attached deeper.just like when my Jewish friend somalian friend and I got into a religious debate, there is always a barrier. I try my best to understand and not discriminate but sometimes it is really hard to understand
This post got me thinking a lot and I think my issue with it relates to the rest of my posts. It doesn't sound like you're particularly close if you only meet a couple times a year to have dinner, which is why it's 100% understandable that discussions about religion and culture with them immediately grind to a halt. It is not impossible to understand other cultures, but I feel like you're only reaching to understand them from your own safe bubble, which is why you'll never reach very far (and them to you.)
Speaking over dinner is nothing. You need to go experience their religion with them, if you have any hope of understanding it. I don't mean a long spiritual journey, but simply attending a Shabat ceremony or w/e with them (no idea how religious they are.) Just judging from your posts (and I may be way off) it seems like you've only studied the outside from that safe bubble, but you've never left "home" to experience that other culture or what else might be out there.
I'm dead serious, even if only for a Friday night or Saturday morning, it might be good for you to go visit more closely with them.
On March 30 2012 05:40 Chill wrote: Yes, it's important, since there's no way it's true and it deserves to be challenged.
I just did with the census data. Now get off my dick plz
Except you didn't. You used broad data and extrapolated and then justified it by saying how broad the data was. I'm on your dick because it's such a stupid thing to say. I went to school in the same province as you and have a similar education to you and I cannot imagine anyone of my peers claiming what you claimed. It's absurd.
Top 1% is 1 in 100, someone has to 'be it'. Whether it's actually this guy or not, who knows.
On March 30 2012 05:40 Chill wrote: Yes, it's important, since there's no way it's true and it deserves to be challenged.
I just did with the census data. Now get off my dick plz
Except you didn't. You used broad data and extrapolated and then justified it by saying how broad the data was. I'm on your dick because it's such a stupid thing to say. I went to school in the same province as you and have a similar education to you and I cannot imagine anyone of my peers claiming what you claimed. It's absurd.
Now you are being an absolute sore loser. There are always people making lots of money. Just because you didn't doesn't mean others did not succeed either. I have a friend who had an internship at Altera or some tech company in the states for 72k. That is 72k after 3rd year of university. I am not even close to him. There is also my supervisor who is 27 and she makes 110k. You think I am lying? I think you are just completely jealous. Don't deny the truth. I don't give a crap if you had a similar education as me. Perhaps I did more things during my summers and did well in school and got an interview at an awesome place and am making a good money. You are being completely silly denying that making between 50~60k a year as 24 year old is in 1% of the age group, because it INDEED is. The links you provided me and the posts show that you have absolutely NO clue about how much people make in our age group. You are living in a dream world. FYI, if you are going to school in Alberta, you should not be comparing to UofT or Waterloo, we have way more opportunities at first hand and much much stronger fundamentals.
On March 30 2012 03:33 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: Wow skterean. Honestly? I do have white black Chinese Indian friends. I meet them few times a year to have dinner. They are just SOOOOO different. They can't understand my culture either and We all respect each others but what I'm saying is are just can't get attached deeper.just like when my Jewish friend somalian friend and I got into a religious debate, there is always a barrier. I try my best to understand and not discriminate but sometimes it is really hard to understand
This post got me thinking a lot and I think my issue with it relates to the rest of my posts. It doesn't sound like you're particularly close if you only meet a couple times a year to have dinner, which is why it's 100% understandable that discussions about religion and culture with them immediately grind to a halt. It is not impossible to understand other cultures, but I feel like you're only reaching to understand them from your own safe bubble, which is why you'll never reach very far (and them to you.)
Speaking over dinner is nothing. You need to go experience their religion with them, if you have any hope of understanding it. I don't mean a long spiritual journey, but simply attending a Shabat ceremony or w/e with them (no idea how religious they are.) Just judging from your posts (and I may be way off) it seems like you've only studied the outside from that safe bubble, but you've never left "home" to experience that other culture or what else might be out there.
I'm dead serious, even if only for a Friday night or Saturday morning, it might be good for you to go visit more closely with them.
Thanks for the opinion Jibba. I agree, this is what I did back in highschool, it has been a long time since. I couldn't attach to them more than I wanted to in highschool, and there was absolutely no need for that in university well knowing our friendship has a cap. Also, everyone just split apart and it's really hard to act as a bridge between all the former crews.
Thanks SKTerran. It is silly to get angry over internet comments, you are right. I had a talk with my parents today... Surprisingly, they weren't really against the idea of living together before marriage! It was a pleasant surprise. So if everything works out well, that really is an option. As many of you guys said, who really cares about what others think right? I still have to make a decision about what to do, planning to meet her and talk about this soon... I think the fact that I hesitate to make a decision really shows that I am not ready for this. I think I will know better once I talk with her. Thank you all.
On March 30 2012 05:40 Chill wrote: Yes, it's important, since there's no way it's true and it deserves to be challenged.
I just did with the census data. Now get off my dick plz
Except you didn't. You used broad data and extrapolated and then justified it by saying how broad the data was. I'm on your dick because it's such a stupid thing to say. I went to school in the same province as you and have a similar education to you and I cannot imagine anyone of my peers claiming what you claimed. It's absurd.
Now you are being an absolute sore loser. There are always people making lots of money. Just because you didn't doesn't mean others did not succeed either. I have a friend who had an internship at Altera or some tech company in the states for 72k. That is 72k after 3rd year of university. I am not even close to him. There is also my supervisor who is 27 and she makes 110k. You think I am lying? I think you are just completely jealous. Don't deny the truth. I don't give a crap if you had a similar education as me. Perhaps I did more things during my summers and did well in school and got an interview at an awesome place and am making a good money. You are being completely silly denying that making between 50~60k a year as 24 year old is in 1% of the age group, because it INDEED is. The links you provided me and the posts show that you have absolutely NO clue about how much people make in our age group. You are living in a dream world. FYI, if you are going to school in Alberta, you should not be comparing to UofT or Waterloo, we have way more opportunities at first hand and much much stronger fundamentals.
I went to Queens, I'm 27, a P.Eng and making 110k also (113 if you want to be technical). Your move tough guy.
It wasn't jealousy. The links I provided are Albertan engineers. Yea, go ahead and say you're in the top 0.01% and then include the entire world if you want - doesn't make it less absurd.
I wouldn't marry this girl without sleeping with her and living with her. It seems that you agree but are facing social pressures. I'd rather satisfy my own necessities before making a commitment than be scared away by outside pressures.
On March 30 2012 05:40 Chill wrote: Yes, it's important, since there's no way it's true and it deserves to be challenged.
I just did with the census data. Now get off my dick plz
Except you didn't. You used broad data and extrapolated and then justified it by saying how broad the data was. I'm on your dick because it's such a stupid thing to say. I went to school in the same province as you and have a similar education to you and I cannot imagine anyone of my peers claiming what you claimed. It's absurd.
Now you are being an absolute sore loser. There are always people making lots of money. Just because you didn't doesn't mean others did not succeed either. I have a friend who had an internship at Altera or some tech company in the states for 72k. That is 72k after 3rd year of university. I am not even close to him. There is also my supervisor who is 27 and she makes 110k. You think I am lying? I think you are just completely jealous. Don't deny the truth. I don't give a crap if you had a similar education as me. Perhaps I did more things during my summers and did well in school and got an interview at an awesome place and am making a good money. You are being completely silly denying that making between 50~60k a year as 24 year old is in 1% of the age group, because it INDEED is. The links you provided me and the posts show that you have absolutely NO clue about how much people make in our age group. You are living in a dream world. FYI, if you are going to school in Alberta, you should not be comparing to UofT or Waterloo, we have way more opportunities at first hand and much much stronger fundamentals.
I went to Queens, I'm 27, a P.Eng and making 110k also (113 if you want to be technical). Your move tough guy.
It wasn't jealousy. The links I provided are Albertan engineers. Yea, go ahead and say you're in the top 0.01% and then include the entire world if you want - doesn't make it less absurd.
I wouldn't marry this girl without sleeping with her and living with her. It seems that you agree but are facing social pressures. I'd rather satisfy my own necessities before making a commitment than be scared away by outside pressures.
Albertan Engineers are mostly chemical and mining/mineral engineering from what I know. The numbers are small, but they do get paid well, but limited opportunity (really inter-provincial).
If you are 27 and making that much, that is really a rare case of Engineers in Canada. My supervisor CERTAINLY is + quite lucky in her career path. It is a path I am looking forward to go. I took the correct first step, I just have to continue. I tend to use numbers when expressing anything, it is just a habit of mine. However, I don't think what I stated is wrong, because it really is right, regardless of whether it is necessary to say or not. Anyway, all the more reason for me to be humble, so I will try to word it more appropriately
I had a talk with my parents today... Surprisingly, they weren't really against the idea of living together before marriage! It was a pleasant surprise.
I'm really glad. The depth of one's parents is something no one can understand/believe until it happens. Unfortunately, not all are like that but I'm super happy that yours are. I can't tell you how many times I've been shocked by how open or understanding my parents have been, including my crazy Japanese mother. I've even gotten to show my dad a few PL games. D:
hehe thanks Jibba. They were for it only if the intention of living together before marriage was really to get married (lol... obviously!). Of course they were against the idea of just living together with a girlfriend/boyfriend you dated for couple of months or someone who has lived together with someone else two or three times. This is pretty obvious and something I wouldn't even consider.
My dad still hates videogames, they've chirped at me for playing games everyday anyway for my entire life, but that has stopped once I got to university and started going on the right track
On March 30 2012 05:40 Chill wrote: Yes, it's important, since there's no way it's true and it deserves to be challenged.
I just did with the census data. Now get off my dick plz
Except you didn't. You used broad data and extrapolated and then justified it by saying how broad the data was. I'm on your dick because it's such a stupid thing to say. I went to school in the same province as you and have a similar education to you and I cannot imagine anyone of my peers claiming what you claimed. It's absurd.
Now you are being an absolute sore loser. There are always people making lots of money. Just because you didn't doesn't mean others did not succeed either. I have a friend who had an internship at Altera or some tech company in the states for 72k. That is 72k after 3rd year of university. I am not even close to him. There is also my supervisor who is 27 and she makes 110k. You think I am lying? I think you are just completely jealous. Don't deny the truth. I don't give a crap if you had a similar education as me. Perhaps I did more things during my summers and did well in school and got an interview at an awesome place and am making a good money. You are being completely silly denying that making between 50~60k a year as 24 year old is in 1% of the age group, because it INDEED is. The links you provided me and the posts show that you have absolutely NO clue about how much people make in our age group. You are living in a dream world. FYI, if you are going to school in Alberta, you should not be comparing to UofT or Waterloo, we have way more opportunities at first hand and much much stronger fundamentals.
I went to Queens, I'm 27, a P.Eng and making 110k also (113 if you want to be technical). Your move tough guy.
It wasn't jealousy. The links I provided are Albertan engineers. Yea, go ahead and say you're in the top 0.01% and then include the entire world if you want - doesn't make it less absurd.
I wouldn't marry this girl without sleeping with her and living with her. It seems that you agree but are facing social pressures. I'd rather satisfy my own necessities before making a commitment than be scared away by outside pressures.
Albertan Engineers are mostly chemical and mining/mineral engineering from what I know. The numbers are small, but they do get paid well, but limited opportunity (really inter-provincial).
If you are 27 and making that much, that is really a rare case of Engineers in Canada. My supervisor CERTAINLY is + quite lucky in her career path. It is a path I am looking forward to go. I took the correct first step, I just have to continue. I tend to use numbers when expressing anything, it is just a habit of mine. However, I don't think what I stated is wrong, because it really is right, regardless of whether it is necessary to say or not. Anyway, all the more reason for me to be humble, so I will try to word it more appropriately
Are you getting M.Eng or MBA?
I'm sorry I came across so aggressive, but I'm extremely sensitive to people who make exaggerated claims. Didn't mean to bring you down necessarily and I noticed you edited your OP.
I don't think either would help me right now so I'm not looking at getting more education yet.
Back to the situation at hand. There's no way to elevate your relationship AT ALL without getting married? It seems like there's a natural progression most people take: Become serious, move in together, (optional) get a pet together, (optional) buy property together, get married. Maybe it's not those specific steps, but it seems like you've just reached a point where you want to go all-in for some reason.
I'd look for something to test the waters first. If living together and sexual things are absolutely off the table, can you travel together for 3 weeks? Take all your vacation together and go to Europe or something? Can you get a pet together? Buy a car together? Buy an income property together (risky if you foresee any chance of a breakup in the future)?
It seems like there are many steps that could be taken between where you're at and marriage...
Edit: My girlfriend is Korean and her father has similar conservative views. We reached a point where I wanted to live together and her dad wouldn't accept it. But eventually she moved in and eventually he accepted it. So I kind of understand where you're coming from.
Thanks Chill. I would certainly not think you are exaggerating if you made such a claim, because it is true. But it doesn't hurt to be humble right?
I think first I have to decide if I will continue this relationship or not. Then those will come after. But your recommendations are very sound and something I was hoping to hear from fellow TLers. Thank you for your inputs.
I am just guessing, but you might have had an easier time than me in moving in with your girlfriend. Weird enough, I know hundreds of 1.5gen (immigrant ones, specifically fobs) girls (mostly not close, but I just know who they are and relationship status, gossip etc) and I have never seen a single one date a non Asian dude! Actually, I am presuming that you are non-Asian but that could be wrong too. Please excuse my wrong assumption if it was, I just cannot find many Koreans/Chinese fobs who welcomes the idea of moving in together... Also if you met your gf at Queens... even less fobs!! I definitely think the 2nd generation Koreans/Chinese would be way more open minded.
Anyway, good luck with your relationship too. My first step is to first realize wtf I want to do, and second take small steps. But our situation just happens to be that I can feel her parents pressuring her to get assurance from me. I feel like I have no breathing space and it really sucks!
I was in a similar situation, got married at 23, my wife is 3 years older than I. It was mainly because you can't live together in China without being married. We did live together when we were abroad though, and I believe living together for a while before getting married is very important if not mandatory. I don't regret it !
On March 30 2012 09:50 Chill wrote:I went to Queens, I'm 27, a P.Eng and making 110k also (113 if you want to be technical). Your move tough guy.
It wasn't jealousy. The links I provided are Albertan engineers. Yea, go ahead and say you're in the top 0.01% and then include the entire world if you want - doesn't make it less absurd.
I wouldn't marry this girl without sleeping with her and living with her. It seems that you agree but are facing social pressures. I'd rather satisfy my own necessities before making a commitment than be scared away by outside pressures.
What this guy says is spot on. A healthy long term relationship will in part depend on a healthy sex life, and overwhelmingly on how well you can cope living together. The latter can be a really rude experience.
One thing to bear in mind is that ultimatums do not bode well for relationships. It either means you are not communicating well, not compromising well, or SOMETHING, because someone is about ready to give up if they're throwing around final warnings like that (addressing the point in the OP here).
Also arguing about salaries online is pretty lame (no hating on Chill, I see the provocation). Insulting other people's lives (or lack thereof) is pointless. Getting in people's faces while they're trying to help you out with a life decision is :\ Be nice!
On March 27 2012 13:23 divito wrote:As for the rest of your response, I would then pose a question: are you able to completely act natural around her? How often, if ever, do you have to hold back something you might say or do because you fear her reaction to it? Once a day? A few times a week? Always? Never?
This is also the best question raised in the thread from what I can see. If you can't act naturally, living with someone is going to slowly drive you crazy.
If you're asking about this on a Starcraft forum, maybe you're not ready.
It's your decision, you've got to be able to make it with confidence and commitment, either way. If you're not ready to make that decision at your age, that's fair -- if she doesn't understand that and is pressuring you to marry, then I'd ask yourself how healthy your relationship with her really is.
Personally, I'm with Chill -- I can't imagine marrying someone without sleeping with them and living with them first. I also wouldn't marry someone that I didn't feel 100% about.
That said, I'm sad and lonely, while you have a woman that wants to marry you, so it's ultimately your call. I just think that you have to be able to make the decision yourself, and if you can't, then you're just not ready (which is, again, totally fair). I don't see the need for the "all or nothing" approach. If you're happy now but not ready to marry, then stay together, but don't get married.
On March 30 2012 15:56 dormer wrote: I just think that you have to be able to make the decision yourself, and if you can't, then you're just not ready (which is, again, totally fair). I don't see the need for the "all or nothing" approach. If you're happy now but not ready to marry, then stay together, but don't get married.
You forget that a relationship takes two. She wants to get married in a few years, but he's not sure if he'll be ready or if he should settle down with this particular girl. At this point in their lives, I think it's probably pretty important to be on the same page.
I'm glad to hear that your parents approve you guys living together before getting married. My cousins (I'm Chinese) also faced a lot of issues when they wanted to move in with their bfs/gfs. To gain the approval of their parents, a few of them got engaged before moving in. Would this be an option for you? If you find that you guys aren't right for each other after living together...well an engagement is a lot easier to break off.
I think the problem that asian cultures have with unmarried people moving in together is that it seems kinda scandalous and slutty to them. By getting engaged, everyone knows that you guys are serious about each other and not just playing around, so your family doesn't have to face any embarassment.
If not, take some vacations together! Best of luck.
Been there, almost broke up (well we did for 3 month 2 years ago, she did broke up with me because i did not wanted to give an answer) then took her back and will marry soon. Just say yes, freedom is not sleeping with a different girl every now and then. If she is really the girl for you, then she will makes you feel free even married.
Don't know if my 2 cents will help you at all but: Been married now for about 9 months. We were together for almost 10 years. I'm 27 now, she's 26.
I only read the short OP, not the longer one that's referenced, so I don't know your exact situation. But I went ahead and I would do it again in a heartbeat. We lived together for 2 years before tying the knot though, so it's not like we didn't know what we were getting into.
On March 31 2012 03:39 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: lol. no sex does not mean that I never got into her pants. It is just intercourse i am talking about, we are open to other sexual activities.
Ok that's reasonable then.
On March 31 2012 03:39 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: NeoLearner, that is great! I am talking with her tonight, i'll see what happens.
Agree a lot with NeoLearner here, living together first is a really good (many would argue necessary) test to see if you'll be happy down the road.
Everything worked out well. I've been struggling to really grasp my feelings but I figured out my problem and why it was so silly. What I struggled all along (and us having talked about it) is that I wanted to just go out and have night life for say 1 year because I have never done it. Perhaps I may have been jealous of my friends. But I know that this is all for naught. I wasn't looking for another long term relationship, but rather just go out and do things that you can't do when you are commited. This was extremely silly and something that was not a breakup worthy material for me. I don't know how it could have grown on me this much past 2 weeks, but I really couldn't get what the missing 2% was, and this was it. But the reason being silly is not the main reason why I decided this. It was because it was something that was unimportant, and what mattered was that she was important to me.
She said a similar thing. She likes going out, doing exciting stuff. She is a designer, she wants to just go somewhere experience new things. Me being a very calm and settle down guy, is complete opposite, and she said she had similar feelings and wants like me albeit for a bit different reasons. This issue is something we can solve together, as many have said, I can experience and do many exciting things with her. So why not?
Anyhow, I know she is the one I really love and want. I won't talk much about what happened last night in greater detail, but we talked more about our future, and etc. I think most of you will be glad to hear that I will likely live with her for about a year before marriage (I will have to get engaged though).
Thanks alot TL for all your advice. The struggles we had past few weeks will really make us stronger. We believe so and think that it was a necessary stage to move the relationship further.
On March 30 2012 02:50 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: I said my job is top 1% of my age group not my dream job.. count how many students graduate out of university each year. Now count how many of those make more than say 60k per year right off the bat. That is already top 1% of ALL graduates. Add in security and benefits and even more so.
[...]
P.s. I don't understand why some people think I am trolling. Household work being one of the most important and time consuming part in daily life is unimportant? Isn't this something that you guys would check before marriage? If you have a lazy wife who doesn't wanna do any housework would you marry her? What is so troll about that??
If you're one of the 1% why don't you employ one of the 99% as a cleaner. You'll be sorted then.
It's very, very clear. I have referenced this document dozens of times when negotiating salary, so I know it well. For anyone unfamiliar, PEO is the engineering association in Ontario. APEGGA is the engineering association in Alberta. The average salary in Alberta is higher than the average salary in Ontario, so we cannot draw direct conclusions from the APEGGA study about salaried in Ontario.
Go to page 26. You can see the mean, level A for all engineers is $65,936. Similarly, the D9 level (top 10%) is $74,800.
I imagine Toronto will be lower, but I can't imagine it being more than 20% lower. But only someone with access to the PEO website can check that.
Edit: We could easily extrapolate based on a normal curve to find the 1%. But it's better to do that with real PEO data than APEGGA data.
I won't look at your sources because I don't have a clue wtf they are. Instead, I will use the credible Canadian Census data from 2006, since income stats from 2011 are not available yet.
You're an engineering grad out of Toronto and you don't know "wtf they are" in regards to the PEO and APEGGA? You twit?
On March 30 2012 06:30 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: I just did with the census data. Now get off my dick plz
You are being completely silly denying that making between 50~60k a year as 24 year old is in 1% of the age group, because it INDEED is.
That's what I earned out of school as a 24 year old. The term I used for it was 'middle class'.
On March 30 2012 06:30 ExceeD_DreaM pulled out of his ass: FYI, if you are going to school in Alberta, you should not be comparing to UofT or Waterloo, we have way more opportunities at first hand and much much stronger fundamentals.
You're right. All of the good jobs for engineers are in Ontario. No opportunities at all for Albertans. Sucks to live here.
Listen, I know your kind. You are the typical, egotistical, inexperienced, loser engineering grad. You have spent the last 4 or 5 years of your life rationalizing your complete and utter social ineptitude by thinking you are better than everyone else. You are the reason the average person in any industry despises engineers and the reason I never admit I'm an engineer to anyone until after they already get to know me.
You are an arrogant, self-absorbed, condescending, narrow-minded, inexperienced twat. You are a dime a dozen. Not the 1%.
You can't go with the "I don't see myself being married until 30, butI know I want to eventually and I can definitely see you as my wife, just not now"? Don't see myself married til 30 but I'm only 22 so....
stepped away from the thread for a bit. wow i was close minded/tunnel visioned my first readthrough. and reading your and chills argument, this thread REEKS of korean
whoever that guy was who said "the difference between looking at spending life with her or experiencing life with her" THAT was the application I was looking for! that ---> the 2% that was bothering you, yes :D
On March 31 2012 21:47 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: I know she is the one I really love and want. I won't talk much about what happened last night in greater detail,
c'mon, you can tell us if you boned
but we talked more about our future, and etc. I think most of you will be glad to hear that I will likely live with her for about a year before marriage (I will have to get engaged though).
Thanks alot TL for all your advice. The struggles we had past few weeks will really make us stronger. We believe so and think that it was a necessary stage to move the relationship further.
On April 06 2012 06:29 Flaccid wrote: You are an arrogant, self-absorbed, condescending, narrow-minded, inexperienced twat. You are a dime a dozen. Not the 1%.
the only question in my head is that, even if he is, what do you gain out of textually devaluing him?
On April 06 2012 06:29 Flaccid wrote: You are an arrogant, self-absorbed, condescending, narrow-minded, inexperienced twat. You are a dime a dozen. Not the 1%.
the only question in my head is that, even if he is, what do you gain out of textually devaluing him?
EPT
) people to have sex. Your religion might not be getting in the way, but hers could be. Saying "we're asian" seems... odd.
