On February 14 2012 04:18 Toadesstern wrote:
why do you believe rad is not mafia.
why do you believe rad is not mafia.
it's quite urgent schworz.
Forum Index > TL Mafia |
Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On February 14 2012 04:18 Toadesstern wrote: why do you believe rad is not mafia. it's quite urgent schworz. | ||
Jayjay54
Germany2296 Posts
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
wherebugsgo 02-07-2012 02:45 AM ET (US) Radfield is an incredibly hard player to read sometimes because he is very good; which means that even if he appears town, he may not be. It leads people to become paranoid sometimes (look at Sleeper Cell II where he gets lynched day 1 as town) and misread him. Indeed the first time I played with him as town in PYP:I I felt similarly. (I had previously played with him in LoTR where he was scum, though I died n1; I caught him in the obs QT) With that said, so far I feel like he is very town. To answer your question, I dunno exactly why Radfield likes asking questions, however for me I ask questions as town because it's an effective way to gauge a person's reads and thus their alignment. Think about it this way: the hardest thing for scum to do is to forge analysis. So, if you're constantly forcing them to "contribute" by asking questions, you'll wear them out and they will slip and slip and slip. Their responses to your questions also will be shaded in a way that is mafia-flavored. Every scum is different, but most will have a very hard time coming up with convincing analysis on the spot, because convincing analysis as scum is very hard to do (you're essentially forcing the scum to fabricate shit over and over, which is hard). Think of it as lying to your parents or something; you can only keep up a lie for so long before it becomes so convoluted that no one would ever believe you. Another thing is, Radfield's incessant question-asking is incredibly consistent with his meta, because it is one of the most effective ways of hunting scum as town. Indeed, that's actually how I caught him in the LoTR obs QT; he was making assumptions (and he subtly slipped on knowledge he wouldn't have has as town)without asking people in the thread questions. He was not proactive about asking people questions and it was readily apparent. Compare his play in this game to his play in XLVIII: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessag...¤tpage=16#306 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessag...52884¤tpage=3 XLVIII posts from Radfield compare to this game, so far he's posted twice in this fashion: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessag...¤tpage=22#424 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessag...¤tpage=22#427 Pretty similar, IMO. Ofc a good player will be able to replicate this kind of thing as scum, but for now I'm inclined to believe Radfield is town. This is not at all like his day 1 play from LoTR, and it is not like his play from Couples' Therapy either, where we were scumbuddies (we were a hydra, in fact) The only thing lacking is that Radfield hasn't posted anything like a plan or anything of the sort (like he usually does) but he does that as both alignments, so I don't think it's that relevant. From what you have said so far, Deepthroat, I'm going to make the assessment that you are a newer player. I'm going to guess Toad. wherebugsgo 02-07-2012 02:50 AM ET (US) apparently I can't post more than 4 links in a post without it getting blocked by the spambot protection thing. couple more posts of Radfield's from XLVIII that I used for meta analysis: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessag...¤tpage=17#322 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessag...¤tpage=21#401 As for Palmar, he hasn't done enough yet to be readable. So far he has largely been useless, but we are only halfway through day 1. After the debacle in L where I pushed the lynch on him day 1 for being useless, I'm wary of lynching him day 1 just for that reason. I feel like there are probably out-of-game reasons for his lack of activity as well, as he scolded me in skype after he died about the lynch that game. For that reason I think it's kinda fruitless to try to analyze Palmar right now without further information. He'd be a very good target to poke today and get answers from. I want to hear his thoughts, since that'll be the fastest way to determine his alignment. He'll probably be quite stubborn about it, though. If the phone operator can get him in here, that'd be awesome. If he's scum we'll know very quickly (especially if he refuses to use this) and if he's not then he'll be a valuable resource and addition to the discussion. wherebugsgo 02-07-2012 02:54 AM ET (US) yeah I definitely agree with you, Radfield should be pressured into contributing. The great thing about Radfield is that if he's town mafia will definitely not want to leave him alive on n1. If he pursues a Foolishness-style of play day 1 there's a chance he'll live, but either way we should definitely pressure him (and the other vets) so that we can determine their alignments quickly. oh also I had two other guesses for who you were (my third was Dr. H hahaha) I should've been able to guess from your posting style! | ||
Forumite
Sweden3280 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
Other than that I don't see a single reason for Palmar to lie to us if he's Batman. | ||
Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
He only said people should poke radfield. It's not even a fos or something. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22630 Posts
On February 14 2012 04:37 Forumite wrote: Hmmm, that´s not good. Trying to make a huge case on Radfield early doesn´t make sense if they both be scum. Read the comments again. WBG concludes Radfield is kinda towny and then agrees he may need to be pressured. If Bugs genuinely felt radfield was worth hanging he'd have been much more to the point. | ||
chaoser
United States5541 Posts
On February 14 2012 04:46 Palmar wrote: Show nested quote + On February 14 2012 04:37 Forumite wrote: Hmmm, that´s not good. Trying to make a huge case on Radfield early doesn´t make sense if they both be scum. Read the comments again. WBG concludes Radfield is kinda towny and then agrees he may need to be pressured. If Bugs genuinely felt radfield was worth hanging he'd have been much more to the point. agreed. even though I'm a master scum =[ | ||
Palmar
Iceland22630 Posts
On February 14 2012 04:50 chaoser wrote: Show nested quote + On February 14 2012 04:46 Palmar wrote: On February 14 2012 04:37 Forumite wrote: Hmmm, that´s not good. Trying to make a huge case on Radfield early doesn´t make sense if they both be scum. Read the comments again. WBG concludes Radfield is kinda towny and then agrees he may need to be pressured. If Bugs genuinely felt radfield was worth hanging he'd have been much more to the point. agreed. even though I'm a master scum =[ Do you want to lynch Radfield? | ||
Palmar
Iceland22630 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22630 Posts
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On February 14 2012 03:09 Kurumi wrote: Show nested quote + On February 14 2012 03:07 chaoser wrote: Wait...Radfield says he DT Sheth and that he was mafia. We lynch Sheth and he flips mafia. And you all want to lynch Radfield? Are you all stupid? This is like when people wanted to lynch me in LOTR for killing Radfield and he flipped red... We went to lynch Radfield because everything he has done so far together with info we have is too convienient. -Can't die from Batman, but he had claimed DT already -Wasn't RB-ed after claiming DT and bringing Town one scum, what? -Wasn't killed after claiming DT and bringing Town one scum, what? -Claims to have checked wbg. Convienent, given he's dead. So, what's Your opinion? I assume these are actually the reasons I am getting lynched? If anyone has any to add, please do.... For some reason, you guys have decided to take Palmars word that he shot me as gospel. I already addressed this, but will do so again. Palmar did not shoot me night 1, scum shot me night 1. I can guarantee this, because I am still alive. Notice that Palmar didn't actually claim shooting until A) after I had claimed the hit, and B) after I had claimed my check. I love the short term memory in effect. The going theory on Night 2 was that I was Batman(maybe Catwoman) a theory put there by Palmar lying about his unblockable hit. Obviously mafia aren't going to shoot Bat/Cat, and there was no way they were going to roleblock either, considering Catwoman would shoot into Town, and Batman would shoot at the Joker(who was revealed). Yes, I checked WBG, and as I said I was going to check Opz, but that wouldn't have helped either. I can't help that you shot him Kurumi. I also cannot help that I am 2 for 2 on mafia checks. There is a very very good reason Palmar is trying to push my lynch. Town is storming right now, and we have a ton of good targets, and a bunch of KP. Palmar has two nights MAX to figure out Hugo and shoot Toad, because we are rolling. Killing me buys him at least one more day, but probably several. When I flip DT are you guys voting me going to bother lynching Palmar??? Of course your not, you're paranoid about lynching 3rd party, WHEN SOMETIMES THERE ARE EXCELLENT REASONS TO LYNCH THIRD PARTY. Scum are absolutely coming out of the woodworks right now, despite the fact that there is no tenable case on me. Anyone voting me is selectively believing Palmars lies, which is either baffling or scummy. On February 14 2012 00:10 Tunkeg wrote: Palmar is finally making sense. I think you are right Palmar. I think Radfield is scum. Scumteam decided to bus Sheth for towncred on Radfield. Then Radfield "checks" WBG, oh, how convinient. And his last move is claiming the Calender Man (same as Palmar said he was).He have played a bold scumgame, but he have done it in the safest possible manner. Sheth as a DT read, very safe way to get towncred for bussing a teammate that were allready somewhat in trouble. It probably were Sheth himself that proposed it... WBG as a DT read after he died. "Proving" that he is a good DT checking the right players, and that he needs to be kept alive, while not having to tell someone a wrong read. Claiming Calender Man, same as Palmar, knowing he had to claim, and that only Azrael and Calander Man was unclaimed it was a easy choice. because everyone knows Palmar is Batman, and because there is no need for the real Calander Man to come forth and claim when it allready is a contested claim. ##Vote Radfield Again, selective memory. Sheth was not on the table for a Day 2 lynch. If he was I never would have claimed my check, I would have just pushed him and seen who came out to defend him. The reason I claimed early is because Day 2 was a clusterfuck. RG was claiming some kind of false dt check, a claim which both Toad and DocH could soundly refute. RG however did not look like scum, yet things were building his way. Claiming my check was the ONLY thing that put heat back on Sheth. I don't need to "prove" I am a good DT by stating I checked bugs. I already found Sheth with my first check, which is wayyyy more town cred than any dt should need. Yes, I claimed my role. If I had claimed Azreal would you think I was town? Of course not. There is no other Calendar Man. It was not a lucky guess by me, and Palmar claiming it certainly does not make it easier for me if I was fake-claiming. There is also no contested claim, as Palmar is not ACTUALLY claiming Calendar Man. | ||
rgTheSchworz
Romania425 Posts
Rad is town because he gave us sheth. Then he was RB when it was obv for him to be RB(aka after he gives us scum) Makes sense to me. Palmar ´s accusations only make sense if he´s Batman. His play only makes sense if he s Batman. With his role he wants to lynch random people. Or rather : HE WILL ANALYZE THE VOTE LIST ON RAD AFTER HE IS LYNCHED AND FLIPS DT. All scum will be there. Down to the last one. He has the Joker. He lets him shoot, while he kills people on his list of Rad-Voters. Town still has 1 mislynch. But if Town lynches Rad and then Palmar, we will lose. Rad will 100% flip DT. Earth to TL: Do not get manipulated by Batman. Lynch Forumite today. I guarantee you will not be dissapointed. | ||
rgTheSchworz
Romania425 Posts
Word. | ||
Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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Forumite
Sweden3280 Posts
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rgTheSchworz
Romania425 Posts
My bad. But I can t believe Batman. Rad seems legit. Let s see what he turns up with tonight. My shooting still stands | ||
Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
What's the point in lynching a DT? It's 15-5 if we lynch a blue DT tonight it's going to be 14-5 and that will make it something like 10-4 (assuming we vig a mafia and Batman straight up shoots me) and mafia still has 3 KP. You think Batman wants that to happen when he still needs to find a mafia? | ||
rgTheSchworz
Romania425 Posts
Forumite already revealed himself. See that quickvote along with little contributions despite being active. Trust me, I am not wrong on this one. | ||
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