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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On January 11 2012 13:13 Grackaroni wrote:
I feel that between risk.nuke and RoL, Risk.nuke is the better lynch.
RoL seems to truly believe that the voting block and confirmed townies would be more helpful than the blues themselves and seems to have spent a lot of time considering the implications of the mass roleclaim. I get the feeling that he legitimately believes his plan is good for town, and he stands by it even after the town declared it anti-town.
This is meaningless-- he'd stand by it if he was scum too.
The largest flaw in the plan is not the theory itself but the actual application. If only a portion of the town comes in to claim the whole plan falls apart, letting a portion of townies make claims is bad. Besides it's possible that we have a couple derp townies who would lie about their roles in order to save themselves or draw hits.
Alright, fine, here's my A-game. I was hoping more people would respond first, but here it is.
I'm not sure you understand what happened here-- RoL never meant for his plan to succeed. He knew-- *knew* that some people would stand against it, but some fools would get suckered.
Here's how you can tell:
he asked the VTs to claim.
The thing about a mass roleclaim like this is you only need to ask the blues to claim. If our four blues claimed blue, then we're done-- no need for everyone else to claim VT, because by definition we are all claiming VT by talking to each other here in this thread.
So why did RoL ask all the VTs to also claim, when it would be easier to just have the four blues claim (the Vts being everyone who didn't claim "Blue)? Why did he ignore this simpler way of executing his strategy that was less prone to failure?
Because, my friends, in case it hasn't been obvious for some time... RoL knew his plan wouldn't be unanimously accepted. He knew that few or none of the blues would claim. RoL is a smart guy and he knew what would happen. Look at him defend his plan! He's dismissing most arguments as dumb without even directly addressing them. His goal isn't for his plan to succeed or fail...
It is for his plan to kinda succeed. He wanted several VTs to claim, partially narrowing down the blues list and generally giving his faction an advantage in reading the town pool
That's almost how things went. Luckily the only moron in the pack was risk.nuke, probably RoL's scumbuddy trying to draw out other claims.
You're probably thinking "Blazinghand that sounds far-fetched"
but what sounds more far-fetched to you? that RoL, a good player, suggested this bad idea, kept on pushing it, etc, EVEN THOUGH THERE WAS AN EQUIVALENT OUTCOME IDEA WITH LESS RISK? Why not just have the blues claim?
RoL clearly spent a lot of time analyzing the setup. Long enough that he should have realized this.
No, he's scum, and he's obvious scum.
We have RoL dead-to-rights, you guys. There's no reasonable explanation for his actions other than being scum.
Let's hang him.
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@RoL
See this post for the current time remaining in the day: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=298603#6
Anyway, I got the chance to spend some time today doing a bunch of rereading, and after doing so I will not be voting for RoL nor Risk today. Maybe I'm being dense, but I really don't see them as being leading candidates for flipping scum. If I end up having to choose between the two to avoid a no lynch, I favor lynching Risk over RoL, but I'd prefer to lynch neither.
My top target remains Tyrran. His passivity and seeming lack of confidence in his reads and overall disinterest in the lynches just seems unlike most townies, and unlike how he played in my prior game with him. While I didn't want to make the following point yet to see if he would keep doing it, Dirkzor already brought it up and stated it quite well, so no reason not to restate it now:
On January 11 2012 03:38 Dirkzor wrote:In the end I'll just quote how Tyrran have taken no stance on anybody he have written a case on. Note: These quotes are cut, but they are all the last part of Posts by Tyrran. Show nested quote +So reffallen, can you please explain why you thought it is not optimal for angels to kill demons ? I dont see much drawback for them doing this. Also it's your turn to step and and post. Who do you think is most scum rigth now ? Show nested quote +You seems to hold a grudge against him because he called you fishy early day 1. Why do you focus so much on him, and not on Blazinghand who actually voted against you ?
On the other hand, i would also like to see you post more Cwave. You seems to have an excel file where you write your read on us. Tell me, who do you think we should lynch today, why ? Show nested quote +Cwave, you are someone who seems towns, but in reality you did not help much at all until now. While you migth be a timid town, I also think it is likely you are scum player. Please answer this : Is there anyone you really think is scum ? Someone you would be fine pushing for lynch ? Who ? Why ? You seem to spend a lot of time analysing people. Please prove us that you are town by trying to get scummy people lynched.
While I think that alone is scummy for any player to do, here's some examples of how Tyrran himself presented cases in his prior game:
+ Show Spoiler + On November 16 2011 20:07 Tyrran wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 18:23 prplhz wrote:
Yea I like Kenpachi as a lynch too
##Vote Kenpachi So you were a fervent defender of only lynching 'scummy' lurkers. And now you suddenly decide to vote for kenpachi without giving any reason Could you please detail a bit more on why you like kenpachi as a vote, other than the fact that he did not post much ? His townie claim basically does not mean anything Keeping an eyes on lurkers is good, but i would wait to the end on day 1(the last 24 hours) before voting for one of them. It seems to me that blanket voting this early on day one can only lead us divide our attention. Voting for someone whenever he says something strange without trying to pressure him more/confirm him as scum is a great way to lynch a lot of townies and seems to be a good strategy for the mafia side, but not that great for town ( obviously). Bumatlarge espescially has been trying to push the town into lynching as many people as possible. Almost each one of his post include a quote on how we should lynch every single player. Spoiler below shows some example from this filter : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=282366&user=31777+ Show Spoiler +On November 16 2011 10:36 bumatlarge wrote:Why would you FoS when you can just vote them. Don't be pansies. Realized I didn't properly vote. I doubt I will ever take my vote off of kenpachi, it's not that I don't like him, but he is not an asset to the town at the moment, or the forseeable future. Nisani has proceeded to call me dumb or scum, but that doesn't change the fact that his fluffy posts stick out, so it will stay there until he remedies it. ##Vote: Kenpachi
##Vote: Nisani201And this Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 05:13 Drazerk wrote:##Vote: Sabin010
Bad vibes also this - On November 16 2011 00:22 Sabin010 wrote:
I have seen to many games where we lose our cop or doc first day and end up wasting our time as the mob picks us off. On November 16 2011 01:06 Sabin010 wrote:
This is my first game and im not sure of all the terms. I thought scum, mob, and mafia are the same. Is why LAL is bad. What possible reason would cause mafia to post this instead of town. By all means keep up the detective work and checking out all the inconsistencies, but use a little sense. This definetely contradicts itself, and it could very well be an intentional lie, but even that doesn't make him scum. The bad strategy reason tht DCL brought up is actually something to go on. You are pushing your luck by trying to find lies a day into the game. Use that energy to filter a suspicious person instead and get a general vibe, and see if their future posts push you one way or the other. If there wasn't a majority lynch in play, I'd put my vote on everyone, and start taking off people who don't register as scum. That's about how many people I think should be lynched each day. On November 16 2011 02:32 bumatlarge wrote:Next person that mentions LAL is getting a vote placed on them. Seriously enough with the useless shit. We will be lynching however many scummy people we can find on the particular day. We are restricting ourselves when we don't have a clue as to what our boundaries are.Nisani has posted complete fluff and none of it shows any effort in actually heling town. I don't think the new people are brain-dead, so unless the specifically ask about something, don't use them as an excuse to post asinine shit. Oh, hi kibbibit  ##Vote Nisani201 On November 16 2011 12:37 bumatlarge wrote:
We got 48 hours from now, right? This time tomorrow we need to look at the votes and see where people stand. I'm honestly surprised how few votes there are, you get as many as you want, a decent townie can take advantage of this. There is no comparing how scummy certain players are to others, you just lynch them or you don't. I guess it's still early, and I'm still fishing for reads here. Oh and surprise, the only post not advocating to lynch the entire town is to defend chaoser, the ONLY person that agreed with the 'vote for everyone' strategy, after he got pressured by WBG. And by defending him, he explains than chaoser should stop doing just what he was advocating the town to do i.e: vote for everyone that seems scummy. Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 12:50 bumatlarge wrote:
Welcome to WBG logic. But that doesn't make what he says untrue, I think chaoser should focus his attention more and prove singleton cases rather then babble on about everything. Doubt he's scum though. So you spend all your post explaining we should vote for anyone who seems scummy, and you defend chaoser that was doing exactly that by saying "he should focus his attention more". How is that not a huge contradiction ? FoS bumatlarge. On November 17 2011 06:55 Tyrran wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 06:47 risk.nuke wrote:On November 17 2011 06:34 GreYMisT wrote:On November 17 2011 06:32 risk.nuke wrote:
Okey, but isn't this exacly one of those situations where we connected two people and should not lynch both of them incase they are town.
##Vote Kenpachi perhaps, but why choose to lynch kenpachi over the guy who anti-voted him? If kenpachi is green, then lanaia probably isn't scum. If kenpachi is red we got a scumkill even if that doesn't necessarily mean lanaia is his buddy. If lanai is green that means nothing for kenpachis alignment. If lanai is red then kenpachi is scum. I think we learn more from knowing kenpachis alignment. Actually, i think that's a good point. However, if kenpachi flips red, i still think we should auto lynch lanaia. We cant let someone that anti voted a scum go free. Also, if lanaia is blue, she will most likely be a priority kill for the mafia ( who now knows she isnt green), and migth not live to see day 2 anyway. Also kenpachi, you're only defense is : "LOL TOWN IS BAD". I seriously hope that you can do better than that. ##Vote Kenpachi On November 18 2011 07:20 Tyrran wrote:
So within four hours, we must focus on getting another lynch. We already have 2 people a 8 votes, i suggest we focus on them. Both look scummy, both are in my likely scum list, yet Drazerk voted for Sinani206 so its unlikely that both are scum.
First of all, Sinani was a big partisan of dividing our attention . Quite amusingly he used the divide and conquer analogy, where as pointed by WBG, you are suppose to divide you enemy. Meaning we town are the enemy?
He Bandwagoned against Lanaia, which as i explained before, is something that is very pro-mafia. Just look at his post just before, when we already established that Lanaia should not be lynched. Both his votes are given without any explanation other than "its obvious". He is either scum or an extremely bad town. Even Drazerk looks good in comparison. I dont think town needs him.
##Vote Sinani206
On November 22 2011 07:19 Tyrran wrote:
Also, while I'm at it :
##Vote: Coagulation
##Vote: Sabin010
##Vote: xsksc
You lurkers unburrow just to lynch an innocent WITHOUT any justification at all, and completely disregarding the post where I understand that prp is a potential blue ( yes i called him vigi which he denied but still) and Palmar huge post in his defence. You are either scum or really crappy town, i dont want you in the game either way.
I also dislike the look of xsksc->spaackle so far. I think the only original contribution either has made was spaackle's argument of Palmar looking town...which is not the best contribution to have.
xsksc's filter:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=298603&user=149333
Spaackle takes over:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=298603&user=164534
I would appreciate it if others would take a look at bluelightz and tell me what they think. I am having trouble seeing how his posts make sense from a town perspective or a scum perspective, which is baffling to me. He seems to really like doing post by post...but then summarizing instead of analyzing. I don't think I've ever seen such a style before.
@Cwave
Please try to make your posts a bit more clear. I understand that english may not be your native language, but reading your filter hurts my head. Also, a good deal of your logic seems questionable, but I am not sure if that makes you scum yet.
Some examples:
+ Show Spoiler +Palmar creates information spam, useless stuff and usefull stuff. I don't see how that observation by me makes me his buddy? I've played games with Palmar outside of the TL context and he is known for his textwalling and informationgathering skills, no matter what side he is on. Information and interaction is good for our town. Unless Palmar plays very differently outside of TL, I don't see how this can be true. Looking into Palmar his filter, he and Wiggles go off on some sort of duet where they distance eachother and vote for eachother.
Then they both switch and nothing is said of it and right before Palmar flips, he lists Wiggles as town. Where as before in his filter, nowhere does it come forward that he has really changed his mind or that Wiggles has him convinced that he is town. Seeing as Palmar flipped scum, im thinking MrWiggles might be one of his demonic dancing partners.
-snip-
In conclusion, these two were giving eachother nothing but hate right up until ~7:30 on the 8th of januari. Looks like a planned and organised move to move the votes of eachother after they created some distance of eachother on day1.
This logic is flimsy at best. He said he would claim. He didnt say he would claim VT like the states in his last post i quoted here. Wonder if that's semantics or a slip that he said he would claim VT against his scumbuddies and then thought he claimed it in here aswell. ...seriously? If he said he would claim, and he is a vt, then "I will claim" and "I will claim vt" are equivalent. Also, how could someone say they are going to claim VT later without having claimed... "Guys, I'm going to claim floridian later, but not yet!" His statement here has no logical thought in it whatsoever. You only have to fear the lynch if you are an angel..... (this quote was said in the context of him/layabout pressuring me) What the fuck? Why wouldn't demons or towns fear being lynched? In short, lynching Risk but hammering RoL is second best option. Syllo doesn't seem to agree on this, why i don't know. Unlike RoL(aka the guy who doesn't post) risk.nuke is still producing reactions and information in the progress, so RoL is a good option in my book. Hence i vote for him at this point as lynchtarget. No, i say Risk is my number one case.
If we can lynch him today, i will vote. Calls Risk his strongest case, then votes for RoL instead...then seems to imply risk.nuke is producing useful information while RoL is not...then reiterates that Risk is his best case. What?
Also, why did you say this:
As you choose to ignore my post and after reading your responses, you are forcing me to vote for your lynch HoD. And then never vote for me?
Geez that post came out longer than I expected. Ending with a vote on Tyrran, of course.
##Vote: Tyrran
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So, after a bit more of BH and RoL duking it out, I've decided to Unvote RoL for now. RoL has spent a long time and a lot of effort defending it, and a scum Probably would have dropped it long ago. RoL is still pretty null to me, though.
Give me a bit more time to finish catching up on the thread and reading some filter, and I'll have an analysis for both Tyrran and risk.nuke
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On January 11 2012 14:31 Spaackle wrote:
So, after a bit more of BH and RoL duking it out, I've decided to Unvote RoL for now. RoL has spent a long time and a lot of effort defending it, and a scum Probably would have dropped it long ago. RoL is still pretty null to me, though.
Give me a bit more time to finish catching up on the thread and reading some filter, and I'll have an analysis for both Tyrran and risk.nuke
What? Are you listening to yourself?
If he were scum he'd cling to it since it's the only thing he's done all game besides lurk and fail to vote Erandorr properly. If he were town, he'd believe in his plan so he'd defend it anyways.
RoL of any alignment will defend his plan. RoL isn't null, he's anti-useful and I have no idea why you'd unvote him at this time.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
I have been outside the cave and seen the light and all Spaackle here is doing is pointing at the wall.
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On January 11 2012 14:40 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 14:31 Spaackle wrote:
So, after a bit more of BH and RoL duking it out, I've decided to Unvote RoL for now. RoL has spent a long time and a lot of effort defending it, and a scum Probably would have dropped it long ago. RoL is still pretty null to me, though.
Give me a bit more time to finish catching up on the thread and reading some filter, and I'll have an analysis for both Tyrran and risk.nuke What? Are you listening to yourself? If he were scum he'd cling to it since it's the only thing he's done all game besides lurk and fail to vote Erandorr properly. If he were town, he'd believe in his plan so he'd defend it anyways. RoL of any alignment will defend his plan. RoL isn't null, he's anti-useful and I have no idea why you'd unvote him at this time.
Give me some time to read the thread. I'm inviting because I think RoL may not be the best lynch right now, and I'm going through the filters of the other main suspects. If I think that they are better lynches, I'll vote them, and if they're not, my vote comes back to RoL. Even if I don't vote him, I still think he'd be a good target for our Demon Hunter.
Now back to reading.
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EBWOP: I'm not inviting, I'm unvoting. Silly iPhone autocorrect....
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Fair enough. Read my post at the top of this page when the get the chance, though. I am highly convinced of RoL's guilt.
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On January 11 2012 13:13 Grackaroni wrote:
I feel that between risk.nuke and RoL, Risk.nuke is the better lynch.
RoL seems to truly believe that the voting block and confirmed townies would be more helpful than the blues themselves and seems to have spent a lot of time considering the implications of the mass roleclaim. I get the feeling that he legitimately believes his plan is good for town, and he stands by it even after the town declared it anti-town.
The largest flaw in the plan is not the theory itself but the actual application. If only a portion of the town comes in to claim the whole plan falls apart, letting a portion of townies make claims is bad. Besides it's possible that we have a couple derp townies who would lie about their roles in order to save themselves or draw hits.
risk.nuke mentioned a plan that consisted of sitting back and observing posts and got pissed off at Syllo for ruining it. I think he has been overreacting to accusations. He also is using meta on other people yet when it's used against himself meta is worthless. The only thing I agree with is that Palmar's flip does make me think that you are less likely to be a demon, still though if you were an Angel of course you're going to ask to be checked in order to prolong your life.
With 20 hours to go we need to start consolidating our votes. I think risk.nuke is more likely scum than RoL but either one is preferable to a no-lynch.
##Vote: risk.nuke
You clearly either got no idea what I wanted to achive or your deliberatly bending words.
I've been using meta or Erandorr and Palmar who I've seen play in a ton of games as both town and mafia and I know how to tell one from the other. I have never played a game as scum and I have played agressivly, passivle, lazily and with passion all as town. If you don't realise why those facts makes judging me on meta impossible you're a fool.
blablabla you're not demon, you could still be angel blablabla. I think risk.nuke is scum.
you're reasoning suck or more acuratly is inexistant but whatever. You probably just wanted to write some weak shit that took you 5 minutes to come up with to make it look like you were trying atleast a slightly bit harder then the rest.
Whatever, Fuck this.
Lynch me, I'm done. I could fight to stay alive but I don't have any motivation. The entire town is either tunneling me, sheeping and everyone is ignorning everything that doesn't fit me beeing scum-scheme which is a fucking lot. Syllogism the bandwagon starter have failed to provide reasoning and just ignored all of my pleads for him to do so. But to top it of, town seem contempt with allowing votes without reasoning. Even if I were to keep on living I wouldn't have any motivation to play with a town like this, I could say good luck town but you guys are screwed.
Once I flip, lynch syllogism the bad tunneling angel and every fucking one who used something along the lines of this "I don't like RoL as a lynch because of X so I'm going with risk.nuke" for reasoning.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On January 11 2012 15:32 risk.nuke wrote:
Whatever, Fuck this.
Lynch me, I'm done. I could fight to stay alive but I don't have any motivation. The entire town is either tunneling me, sheeping and everyone is ignorning everything that doesn't fit me beeing scum-scheme which is a fucking lot. Syllogism the bandwagon starter have failed to provide reasoning and just ignored all of my pleads for him to do so. But to top it of, town seem contempt with allowing votes without reasoning. Even if I were to keep on living I wouldn't have any motivation to play with a town like this, I could say good luck town but you guys are screwed.
Once I flip, lynch syllogism the bad tunneling angel and every fucking one who used something along the lines of this "I don't like RoL as a lynch because of X so I'm going with risk.nuke" for reasoning.
._. no townie would ever say this. Welcome to the top of my list, punk.
##Vote: risk.nuke
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
RoL don't think I haven't taken my eye off you though >.>
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So, after reading through Tyrran's thread, he's starring to look pretty scummy to me. He's posted much less than most others in this game, and his posts are long and full of fluff. He seems to spend a lot of time trying to tell other players how to play when he could be giving analysis or answering questions. He also contradicts himself a few times.
Posts that really stand out to me:
+ Show Spoiler +What makes you think that angels will want to target the blues ? They are pretty much immune to blues, appart from the seer which will be desintegrated by the Angel of Death if he ever claim ( or i guess you could banish him, but then he would be pretty useless). So angel will just randomly shoot into townies, who knows, they migth even get a lucky shot on a demon, they migth also kill townies with dark power if they are not banished.
Secondly you suppose that Demons are going to want to use their banish defensively. If they want to do this, then Demons will just banish the Demon Hunter ( which will NEVER EVER be targeted by angels, because he basically works for them). If they have corrupted someone, they can also banish the sage, and just enjoy they extra vote ! They are not going to banish someone in order to 'protect' him.
Your plan gives HUGE information to both scum faction, and town actually gains very little from it. I dont like it. I think it favors Demons way too much ( because they can protect themself way more easely using their power knowing who the blues are), it also helps angels a bit ( they can kill the seer, they do not risk killing the demon hunter by mistake). But town is definitively the big loser in your plan. And Okay, i misread and missed the color only claim part. My bad, gotta go back some new googles.
Your plan is therefore much better than i initially thougth. I still have an issue with how you are going to deal with corruption. Angels are not the only one that need to prevent a voting block from forming, we need to prevent it too. On one hand you say that corrupted town should claim, but on the other hand you also advise multiple claim. What does town gain form multiple corruption claim ? While i agree that this migth confuse scum, If the angels are in doubt on how to get rid of corrupted townies, how are we going to know how to deal with it ?
These posts are a glaring contradictions to each other. Tyrran points out several large flaws in RoL's plan. However, when RoL clears up the color claim issue, suddenly these flaws aren't so bad anymore. To me this represents a bit of wishy-washiness on Tyrran's part. He's very opposed to RoL's plan one minute, then thinks it's not too bad the next. There's Also this bit:
Angels are not the only one that need to prevent a voting block from forming, we need to prevent it too.
By we, does Tyrran mean town? Or is there some special we only him and RoL know about?
This post caught my eye too:
Well I dont see how this could have gone better :D. One demon dead ( GJ DemonHunter or Angel Acolyte, whoever got him) and no unrevealed death. Perfect N1 for town. Here are some initial thought about what happened N1 :
On January 09 2012 12:14 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:
I agree that it was most likely Palmar that sent me to purgatory, as I can't see any town player choosing to protect me over syllo, and I can't see town trying to use it for the roleblock on me instead of protecting someone. What I am more confused about is why he would do that.
Agreed. Syllo was one of the most valuable town assets day 1, channeler sending him to purgatory was the best and obvious move. Palmar maybe thougth you were AoD, and/or DemonHunter. He also maybe tried to protect you.
The fact that there were no ???? flip leaves us with 4 probability:
AoD targeted Syllo. This is unlikely. It was clear in the thread that the banish was going to be used defensively, and Syllogism was one of the most obvious target. I' not sure why angels would target him other than them being bad.
AoD targeted HarbingerOfDoom. This is a possibility. I'm not sure why they would choose him over BH, Wiggles, layabout tho
Syllo is the AoD. This is unlikely, he has been very active for town during day 1. Yet, we cannot ignore this possibility. I dont want him lynched today, but if he is banished again N2, and once again the AoD do not kill, then we will have to consider him as a lynch.
HoD is the AoD. This is a possibility too, but i'm not sure about it. I'll try to find some time to read his filter today.
Questions to discuss day 2 :
What do you guys think of Syllo and HoD ? Are they summy too you. Do you think they were liekly target for the AoD?
With no ???? flip, RoL plan could still be put into motion. What do you think about it?
this is one of theposts that I really think paints Tyrran as a scum. He starts by congratulating the DH for the kill, then starts listing possibilities. His possibilities state what could have happened, but Tyrran doesnt really ever state what he thinks happened. Just "well maybe this or that." This noncommittal post also really highlights just how wishy-washy Tyrran has been this whole game.
Tyrran, wha do you have to say for yourself?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Spaackle what you think of risk's most recent post why you no vote him?!??!?
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On January 11 2012 15:38 Blazinghand wrote:
RoL don't think I haven't taken my eye off you though >.>
![[image loading]](http://reecesrainbow.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/13p98.jpg)
How could I ever forget this gaze incessantly staring at me?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
I'll admit it, I laughed. But the fact of the matter is, tomorrow I'll convince the town you're scum and lynch you. There's no doubt in my mind that this is the case.
Your so-called "plan" is a sham! Your attempts to subvert us will not go unheeded!
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On January 11 2012 13:54 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 13:13 Grackaroni wrote:
I feel that between risk.nuke and RoL, Risk.nuke is the better lynch.
RoL seems to truly believe that the voting block and confirmed townies would be more helpful than the blues themselves and seems to have spent a lot of time considering the implications of the mass roleclaim. I get the feeling that he legitimately believes his plan is good for town, and he stands by it even after the town declared it anti-town.
This is meaningless-- he'd stand by it if he was scum too. Show nested quote +
The largest flaw in the plan is not the theory itself but the actual application. If only a portion of the town comes in to claim the whole plan falls apart, letting a portion of townies make claims is bad. Besides it's possible that we have a couple derp townies who would lie about their roles in order to save themselves or draw hits.
Alright, fine, here's my A-game. I was hoping more people would respond first, but here it is. I'm not sure you understand what happened here-- RoL never meant for his plan to succeed. He knew-- *knew* that some people would stand against it, but some fools would get suckered. Here's how you can tell:
he asked the VTs to claim. The thing about a mass roleclaim like this is you only need to ask the blues to claim. If our four blues claimed blue, then we're done-- no need for everyone else to claim VT, because by definition we are all claiming VT by talking to each other here in this thread. So why did RoL ask all the VTs to also claim, when it would be easier to just have the four blues claim (the Vts being everyone who didn't claim "Blue)? Why did he ignore this simpler way of executing his strategy that was less prone to failure? Because, my friends, in case it hasn't been obvious for some time... RoL knew his plan wouldn't be unanimously accepted. He knew that few or none of the blues would claim. RoL is a smart guy and he knew what would happen. Look at him defend his plan! He's dismissing most arguments as dumb without even directly addressing them. His goal isn't for his plan to succeed or fail... It is for his plan to kinda succeed. He wanted several VTs to claim, partially narrowing down the blues list and generally giving his faction an advantage in reading the town pool That's almost how things went. Luckily the only moron in the pack was risk.nuke, probably RoL's scumbuddy trying to draw out other claims. You're probably thinking "Blazinghand that sounds far-fetched" but what sounds more far-fetched to you? that RoL, a good player, suggested this bad idea, kept on pushing it, etc, EVEN THOUGH THERE WAS AN EQUIVALENT OUTCOME IDEA WITH LESS RISK? Why not just have the blues claim? RoL clearly spent a lot of time analyzing the setup. Long enough that he should have realized this. No, he's scum, and he's obvious scum. We have RoL dead-to-rights, you guys. There's no reasonable explanation for his actions other than being scum. Let's hang him.
Seriously, this is the last attention I am giving you on this issue. You know why your shit sounds far-fetched? Because it is. I am not even going to bother with an Occam's Razor reference here.
I have responded to every criticism while calling them stupid. I have never snubbed a single point and I'd give you money if you could pull up me purposely ignoring a point.
Thank you for extrapolating on something I said. This plan was entirely dependent on blues claiming within a specific time. I obviously fucking knew I wouldn't get universal approval for a mass fucking claim since people who don't understand how to play mafia or how to value certain elements over other ones get this idea in there head that can best be summarized as bill-murray-isk fucking logic of "Form a blue circle -- > Win" which is to say, people put WAY too much faith on blues and what they do.
The only thing you were right about here is that only Blues needed to claim since everyone else simply fell into the "other" category. I don't know how exactly that paints me as scum, or why you think I wanted my plan to fail at all, but whatever. Maybe if I didn't have a job and I was able to defend my plan from the first minute it was posted until the last possible minute I would of been able to shutdown these mind numbing responses I was forced to read and respond to hours after the fact when I knew it was too fucking late. This is why I claimed my role since I hoped it would trigger others to do it as well because I knew I didn't have the time to argue through the entire day to convince the first blue to claim which would be a pain in the ass without unanimous support as I obviously wasn't going to have with the aforementioned mentality being so omnipresent.
That being said, I am heading to bed now. In the morning I will resume productivity unrelated to force feeding you a tactical advantage, and instead just do analysis.
I swear to god, I think I need to use more shiny colors BC style. I don't know why I expect people to get behind a plan if I haven't used the patented Apple "SHINY SELLS" strategy.
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As a side note, I read a few of the tyrran analysis and I found them well reasoned, I will try to give my own thoughts on it tomorrow.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On January 11 2012 16:34 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
The only thing you were right about here is that only Blues needed to claim since everyone else simply fell into the "other" category. I don't know how exactly that paints me as scum, or why you think I wanted my plan to fail at all, but whatever. Maybe if I didn't have a job and I was able to defend my plan from the first minute it was posted until the last possible minute I would of been able to shutdown these mind numbing responses I was forced to read and respond to hours after the fact when I knew it was too fucking late. This is why I claimed my role since I hoped it would trigger others to do it as well because I knew I didn't have the time to argue through the entire day to convince the first blue to claim which would be a pain in the ass without unanimous support as I obviously wasn't going to have with the aforementioned mentality being so omnipresent.
The thinly-veiled ad hominem was unnecessary. I'm honestly disappointed in you. This post is just to say that.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On January 11 2012 16:34 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
The only thing you were right about here is that only Blues needed to claim since everyone else simply fell into the "other" category. I don't know how exactly that paints me as scum, or why you think I wanted my plan to fail at all, but whatever. Maybe if I didn't have a job and I was able to defend my plan from the first minute it was posted until the last possible minute I would of been able to shutdown these mind numbing responses I was forced to read and respond to hours after the fact when I knew it was too fucking late. This is why I claimed my role since I hoped it would trigger others to do it as well because I knew I didn't have the time to argue through the entire day to convince the first blue to claim which would be a pain in the ass without unanimous support as I obviously wasn't going to have with the aforementioned mentality being so omnipresent.
Case 1) RoL's plan is to have the 4 blues claim, but the town partially rejects his plan.
In this case, nobody claims, no harm done.
Case 2) RoL's plan is to have everyone claim, but the town partially rejects his plan.
In the case, some vts claim, giving the scum information.
Why would you structure your plan in a way that is distinct only insofar as it can harm town?
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On January 11 2012 16:37 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 16:34 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
The only thing you were right about here is that only Blues needed to claim since everyone else simply fell into the "other" category. I don't know how exactly that paints me as scum, or why you think I wanted my plan to fail at all, but whatever. Maybe if I didn't have a job and I was able to defend my plan from the first minute it was posted until the last possible minute I would of been able to shutdown these mind numbing responses I was forced to read and respond to hours after the fact when I knew it was too fucking late. This is why I claimed my role since I hoped it would trigger others to do it as well because I knew I didn't have the time to argue through the entire day to convince the first blue to claim which would be a pain in the ass without unanimous support as I obviously wasn't going to have with the aforementioned mentality being so omnipresent. The thinly-veiled ad hominem was unnecessary. I'm honestly disappointed in you. This post is just to say that.
If only I was streaming, you could of seen me reword it for niceties around 4 times.
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EPT
