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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On January 11 2012 01:31 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: As one of the lovely people who unintelligently shit all over my plan I don't expect much from you, but that's fine. Please, tell me why I am scum, I'd love to see it. Yeah good point i guess unless i made a big analysis post i dont have a leg to stand on huh | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
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risk.nuke
Sweden2825 Posts
On January 11 2012 01:34 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: And risk, congrats. You earned another vote, well on your way to popularity island. Thanks, how did I win this gracious price? What exacly will you claim when I flip green? oh who am I kidding, nobody gives a reason so nobody needs a reason. I love how syllo is lurking and despite me consistantly asking for reason he says nothing. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
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risk.nuke
Sweden2825 Posts
On January 11 2012 01:44 layabout wrote: risk if you want to troll could you at least be funny? layabout, if you want to comment, you could atleast say something of value? | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On January 10 2012 06:46 Blazinghand wrote: So, here's RoL. ok so he lurked a bit guys he's still lurking just hold on a sec ok guys TOMORROW, TOMORROW he will sto the lurk. ._. So you know what RoL I don't like that you lurked for all of D1. That being said, that alone will not implicate you for anything. I think it's worth noting here that uh... you didn't actually vote Erandorr. woo-hoo. This during the last-minute scramble: At last we come to the first real post. First, you claim to have voted Erandorr when you have not at all. A simple mistake, but not a good start. He makes some reasonable points but I consider this a somewhat unsupported "vote" and yet still no vote. ._. OK we're still in honest mistake territory, but as you can see RoL's D1 play was somewhat underwhelming. Does this paint him as scummy to me? Sort of. Maybe he WAS too busy to stop by and kept on telling us that he was catching up. Maybe he DID send a bunch of bad messages to zbot. Maybe he really didn't understand the voting situation. Maybe all he's been doing is analyzing the setup. I'll buy that, MAYBE, if he's got something good to say. So Mr. RoL what you got? Well although his suggestion was ultimately not implemented, since it's the only thing he's really talked about, that's what I'm gonna look at. This is all worthless, so I'm ignoring it. I'm going to be late to work, but that's fine, I hate being gainfully employed anyway. ಠ_ಠ Ok, I get that the concealed lynch / concealed kills thing is a problem. I get that. I get that as the game goes on and more people die, things will get harder for the town. I also get that a concealed lynch destroys a huge amount of information. The DT can't breadcrumb his findings if he gets conceal-shot by the AoD, etc. However, this just means we need to be careful about roleclaims and be effective during our early days when we haven't had more doubt introduced into our reads by flipless deaths. You are wrong, there is no "Careful" about roleclaims, after the first black death any fakeclaim is believeable and there is no absolute certainty. It's better to narrow down our suspect pool earlier, and have a confirmed voting block. Actually this looks respectably bad for the angels. I'm not sure I buy the "demons will always jail the blues" line but I can get how the Angels will try to kill off corrupted towns instead of blues with their Acolyte, maybe. But there are a lot of nights where there isn't a corrupted townie around! And on those nights the Angels get plenty of KP. I also don't like the idea of trading out our blue roles for a "confirmed voting block". Our blues will be largely unable to act due to roleblocks, getting shot, and roleblocking themselves rather than demons. We're giving up most of our blue power for something like this. The last thing is I'm not really sure how this makes things worse for the demons. They're still gonna be doing the same thing, which is corrupting people and biding their time. In fact, given that it will be harder for Angels to kill corrupted towns, as RoL NOTES, THIS MAKES THE DEMONS STRONGER. The corrupted situation will get out of hand and our demon DT will be roleblocked plenty of times, and eventually, even if we kill off an angel or two this is bad news for town. It promotes infighting and I admitted a few posts ago I messed up. It doesn't make the Demons as strong as I thought since they get one corruption every two days. Why would it be harder for Angels to kill corrupted townies? I clearly explained that Angels needs to maintain status quo by eliminating corrupted to avoid the demons using there 3+ corrupted voting power along with whatever townies they can convince to fuck up. On that note, with the Palmar flip, I'd advise against all corrupted claims for tomorrow since the demons are currently at a disadvantage. Overall this looks like it will increase the rate at which angels will kill blue roles, and will buy the demons more time to win. Our Demon Hunter seems to be on the ball. He shot Palmar (I think; maybe it was the acolyte). I'm not particuarly interested in giving the scum teams any advantages here. I think that mass roleclaim is dumb and will hurt the town, and I think RoL is scum trying to get us to do something dumb. I think this plan is basically a pro-demon plan. Others agree with me. Let's examine RoL's defense of his plan. This plan screws the Demons the hardest since we can actively claim corrupted to force the angels to dispose of them, and since most likely townies will get corrupted this also limits our pool of potential demons/townies. Since the blues will be harder to corrupt with Purgatories running around in them. Since the Demons are focusing into the non blue pool we are also going to see the demons KNOWING who the Angels are when they fail to corrupt someone, so they will act as MORE Angel checks. Bluelightz makes a dumb objection and gets shot down. For all the time spent "reading the thread" and "catching up" RoL doesn't seem to have, um, read the thread. It's great that he accuses someone of misreading while misreading ;_; It's known I haven't read the whole thread and am not caught up on the lynch. I explained this with my vote and with my other posts. I KNEW Erandorr was getting votes when I left and fail casted my vote, and when I came back 6-8 hours later Risk.nuke was on the table. Some people being dumb about the acolyte. Which posts are he talking about? certainly not this one: + Show Spoiler + On January 09 2012 00:37 Tyrran wrote: What makes you think that angels will want to target the blues ? They are pretty much immune to blues, appart from the seer which will be desintegrated by the Angel of Death if he ever claim ( or i guess you could banish him, but then he would be pretty useless). So angel will just randomly shoot into townies, who knows, they migth even get a lucky shot on a demon, they migth also kill townies with dark power if they are not banished. Secondly you suppose that Demons are going to want to use their banish defensively. If they want to do this, then Demons will just banish the Demon Hunter ( which will NEVER EVER be targeted by angels, because he basically works for them). If they have corrupted someone, they can also banish the sage, and just enjoy they extra vote ! They are not going to banish someone in order to 'protect' him. Your plan gives HUGE information to both scum faction, and town actually gains very little from it. I dont like it. I think it favors Demons way too much ( because they can protect themself way more easely using their power knowing who the blues are), it also helps angels a bit ( they can kill the seer, they do not risk killing the demon hunter by mistake). But town is definitively the big loser in your plan. Now tyrran, he is not my boy, and he's played like dick this game, but the man has a point. Whether he's an Angel or Demon that doesn't like this plan, or a town player who's figured out that it's like totes anti-town, he laid out legitimate arguments and RoL just ignored them. These aren't misunderstandings of the acolyte's powers-- this is legitimate criticism. So a couple clarifications here, but basically RoL is willing to give up the Blue roles in return for some confirmed voting power. The idea that fake claim is the problem here is, well, a problem. Blues just shouldn't claim ._. He makes some good points as to why this is bad for angels, but it continues to look like this plan just helps demon. And if the scum decide to jetisson one likely-to-be-killed scum player? ._. We also lose the anonymity withing the blues that your plan relies on to be safe. The issue here is that this helps the demons find the blue that threatens them, the demon hunter, while upping the ante on the angels. It's a good for demons, bad for angels sort of thing. ._. or they could just corrupt towns and be substantially better off. this is a fair point. town aligned players should not lie. we should be able to analyze without using this dumb roleclaim strat. Remember that this point RoL doesn't know Palmar is gonna get shot and flip scum, even though Palmar is likely D2 lynch-- he would have been a fine sacrifice for the demon/angel team, since he's dead anyways, to force claims. ._. Lastly, as the tide turns against him: Zeph knows what's up. RoL doesn't actually leave, then proceeds to bail afterwards, saying nothing and disappearing into the mist whence he came. RoL has made no contributions and pushed a pro-scum plan. He even got a couple of morons to claim vt ._. He's lurking, and was hustling us pretty hard D1. I think he's a great D2 lynch. He's never been helpful and he has actively tried to hurt us. ##Vote: RebirthOfLeGenD You wrote way too much and I can't be more than 20 minutes late to work, I can respond to the rest later. | ||
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Dirkzor
Denmark1944 Posts
I had a really long post about RoL, Tyrran and Risk, then i closed the tab it was in on mistake =/. I don't want to write it again now. The short version. RoL is a bad lynch, Risk is a good lynch, Tyrran is the best lynch. I'm going to eat now and then i'll try to rewrite it. @Lay want me to answer your antitown behaviour case? Just seems like we moved on to someelse and an answer to that would disrupt this discussion. I will if you, or others, want me to. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On January 10 2012 08:55 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Wow, Blazinghand, you beat me to it. (Also sorry for not being around, University just started back up) I was basically going to post something like: This is a very weak criticism, as RoL will always say that he thought his plan was good for town, especially if he is scum. What you're saying only holds under the assumption he is town, and we can all know he is town, which we obviously don't. Pushing a bad plan doesn't automatically make you scum, but you have to look at the plan, the player, and how they're pushing it. There's also the difference between a bad plan, and an anti-town plan. A bad plan just won't work, an anti-town plan will hurt the town. I like the way you criticise a simplification of my point and then say my point in another form. I never said we ask him, so that is not a valid criticism of my criticism. If we want to analyse the plan we need to do the following: We need to look a the player and look at what he is saying. We need to make a judgements on:
we can also look at possible motivations for suggesting the plan, and how these might change with different alignments etc... We have to look at a lot of different things in order to decide upon whether his plan makes him more likely to be scum. jumping from Is active during the night, pushing a plan that is arguably anti-town to ##Vote: RebirthOfLeGenD is logically unsound. What is more important is whether RoL beleived it was anti-town when he suggested it (if he didn't then it is null). If you think he did believe it was anti-town we then have to look at his actions more closely to find evidence to support that ideas and ways in which RoL tries to push an anti-town plan. The judgements that i have made about his plan (i haven't shared them) have lead me to the conclusion that is is not scummy. +i might post about risk later or tomorrow if i feel like it | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On January 11 2012 02:22 Dirkzor wrote: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK I had a really long post about RoL, Tyrran and Risk, then i closed the tab it was in on mistake =/. I don't want to write it again now. The short version. RoL is a bad lynch, Risk is a good lynch, Tyrran is the best lynch. I'm going to eat now and then i'll try to rewrite it. @Lay want me to answer your antitown behaviour case? Just seems like we moved on to someelse and an answer to that would disrupt this discussion. I will if you, or others, want me to. No i only pointed it out because you asked. | ||
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Zona
40426 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + You also have 2 other 24 hour inactive periods. 1 day, 7:25:00 between posts at game start and 2012-01-05 22:25:00 1 day, 8:24:00 between posts at 2012-01-06 15:34:00 and 2012-01-07 23:58:00 1 day, 15:36:00 between posts at 2012-01-09 09:48:00 and 2012-01-11 01:24:00 | ||
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Dirkzor
Denmark1944 Posts
On to write the post that disappeared... =/ | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On January 10 2012 19:48 Blazinghand wrote: You don't know the alignment of the people on the wagon either; but here's the thing-- if RoL is scum, I don't give a dick about who agrees with me or not. Maybe he's the 2nd demon and angels are trying to wipe the demons quick. Maybe he's an angel and the two demons are trying to get back into the game. Or maybe all that matters is my analysis is spot-on, he's definitely scum, and he still hasn't come here to defend himself. If you have a problem with my analysis, say it. If not, get out of my way. "It" | ||
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Barbiero
Brazil5259 Posts
Can we agree that risk.nuke cannot be Demon? Palmar was this close to hammer him down before the voteswitch. Granted, I wasn't online at the time so I don't know exactly how the thread worked there. Risk suggested to Seer him in order to verify if he is an Angel or not. However, just like RoL's plan, this is something that could possibly expose the Seer, who could end up pushing for his lynch but if he isn't very careful, Angels find the one town that they fear the most. And you know what is the problem with all this? This is retarded. While it is possible, it's a plan worse than the RoL's mass claim plan for town. Syllogism, sir Lynch leader, please explain this situation. Anyone else is also invited to do so. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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Dirkzor
Denmark1944 Posts
I agree that he was inactive the first day serving us excuses, but thats about all he have done wrong if you disregard his plan and defence thereof. I (still) think risk is a good lynch. I wanted him dead yesterday and i want him dead now. His defensive spirit does seems to have kicked in here on day 2 which puts him in good light, but the fact that during day 1 he basicly gave up makes it look like an act. He does have a point that no one have made a case against him since layabout's day1 (correct me if i have missed something) Tyrran is the one I want to lynch most at the moment. I think he is on palmars team due to this: + Show Spoiler + On January 04 2012 23:32 Tyrran wrote: I dunno what's going on between these two, but we should just ignore this for now. On January 06 2012 19:04 Tyrran wrote: I disagree with you here. From the few games I've read Palmar seems to be a efficient scum hunter.Bussing Palmar is therefore an good scum strat. Almost EVERY SINGLE one of Jackal post were attacking palmar. And he NEVER had more than 1 line of justification. He did not even refer to MrWiggles case. That is scummy play for me. Also note that as there is 2 scum faction, they can perfectly both be scum, one angel and one demon. I'll be looking at both of them today. Palmar need to step up his game, and Jackal needs to start become useful. He is defending palmar when there is no real reason to defend him. The first post compares a post pre-game to a post made in-game. In both posts he defends Palmar without really appearing to defend him. He later changes his opinion on palmar. and in the same post call jackal scum and votes for erandorr. Combine this with palmars change of opinion on Wiggles a few hours earlier it appears suspicious. I don't think its unlikely that demonteam realized that palmar will get lynched/killed at some point soon. Palmar gives up lynching wiggles (no support at that time) and his teammates start bussing him. In the end I'll just quote how Tyrran have taken no stance on anybody he have written a case on. Note: These quotes are cut, but they are all the last part of Posts by Tyrran. So reffallen, can you please explain why you thought it is not optimal for angels to kill demons ? I dont see much drawback for them doing this. Also it's your turn to step and and post. Who do you think is most scum rigth now ? You seems to hold a grudge against him because he called you fishy early day 1. Why do you focus so much on him, and not on Blazinghand who actually voted against you ? On the other hand, i would also like to see you post more Cwave. You seems to have an excel file where you write your read on us. Tell me, who do you think we should lynch today, why ? Cwave, you are someone who seems towns, but in reality you did not help much at all until now. While you migth be a timid town, I also think it is likely you are scum player. Please answer this : Is there anyone you really think is scum ? Someone you would be fine pushing for lynch ? Who ? Why ? You seem to spend a lot of time analysing people. Please prove us that you are town by trying to get scummy people lynched. | ||
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Barbiero
Brazil5259 Posts
Gogo mass voteswitch to risk.nuke and end the day, or is there anything else people want to discuss? | ||
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Dirkzor
Denmark1944 Posts
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Barbiero
Brazil5259 Posts
I'm just ultra curious about risk's flip right now. | ||
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Dirkzor
Denmark1944 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On January 11 2012 04:03 Dirkzor wrote: We can discuss other things then the actual lynch target. RoL's allignment seems in question at the moment. There's no question he's obvious scum | ||
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