EPT[MLG] Providence - Finale - Page 13
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We have issued a clarification to this article after discussion with staff, read here - Heyoka | ||
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qqK
Germany282 Posts
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On November 29 2011 00:41 Sphen5117 wrote: This, a thousand times over. I won't lose any respect for Team Liquid the TEAM, but the website/staff sorta lost some points on this one. It's super ignorant of them. There's SO many parrallels between EG and TL at this point, that are the exact same things the OP is whining about in EG. Only having a few of your players currently doing super well? Check. Adding in new, Korean players, who then are on the top of your performers? Check. Having the players producing less results still stick it out like a boss and train their hearts out? Check. How can the OP not see the correlations? Fuck, these team houses ARE working. Idra has become such a macro god, that even the likes of BOMBER are afraid to go into a long game with him, and instead push for early wins. When the top Korean Terrans in the world are afraid to stand and bang with you, you're doing something fucking right. And where has Idra been living and training? Heaven forbid that making a teamhouse doesn't make all your players immediate champions. Look at half the houses in Korea? MVP, TSL, Prime? Where are their results? They're all decent players, but each team only has a couple that are dominant. Herp Derp, OP. Herp. Derp. First a disclaimer that I don't necessarily disagree with what the above posters said. I might not agree with everything that was said, but I agree with the general directions they are heading to. Anyways, I didn't make this post just to post my opinion. I only wanted to say that it is statistical nonsense to point at a single player in a house doing well and, on that basis, claim that the system of the house works, while ignoring all the others which are performing poorly. If you want to conclude from results to how good the system works, which is basically the basic question of statistics, sample size is all that counts. The bigger the sample size the more legitimate the conclusion you draw from it. | ||
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Elem
Sweden4717 Posts
On November 29 2011 02:10 Chill wrote: Lol. Neutral commentary too strong.Please have more neutral writeups in the future. Games being played. Tournament being won. Fun being had. Eagles were epic. Luckily I was too weak to post back then so no ban for me ;; Great write-up, not too much to disagree on (as usual!) | ||
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VirgilSC2
United States6151 Posts
On November 29 2011 00:41 Sphen5117 wrote: This, a thousand times over. I won't lose any respect for Team Liquid the TEAM, but the website/staff sorta lost some points on this one. It's super ignorant of them. There's SO many parrallels between EG and TL at this point, that are the exact same things the OP is whining about in EG. Only having a few of your players currently doing super well? Check. Adding in new, Korean players, who then are on the top of your performers? Check. Having the players producing less results still stick it out like a boss and train their hearts out? Check. How can the OP not see the correlations? Fuck, these team houses ARE working. Idra has become such a macro god, that even the likes of BOMBER are afraid to go into a long game with him, and instead push for early wins. When the top Korean Terrans in the world are afraid to stand and bang with you, you're doing something fucking right. And where has Idra been living and training? Heaven forbid that making a teamhouse doesn't make all your players immediate champions. Look at half the houses in Korea? MVP, TSL, Prime? Where are their results? They're all decent players, but each team only has a couple that are dominant. Herp Derp, OP. Herp. Derp. This was almost the reaction I had at first upon reading the article, but after I read a few pages of posts here, including a few posts detailing how lax the EG practice house really is (apparently they don't have a coach to keep them on a strict regiment, or any in-house practice rankings to bolster the competitive environment?!) It seems to me that the EG "Team House" is more of an EG "Frat House" where everyone plays some ladder games, knocks back a few drinks, and then hit the gym. | ||
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ELA
Denmark4608 Posts
On November 29 2011 02:10 Chill wrote: Please have more neutral writeups in the future. Games being played. Tournament being won. Fun being had. Ahaha - That was exactly what I was thinking when I read the angry posts, Moderate Temperature, caster of the NeutralStrategy.com TeamNeutral.net invitational. | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On November 29 2011 02:17 VirgilSC2 wrote: This was almost the reaction I had at first upon reading the article, but after I read a few pages of posts here, including a few posts detailing how lax the EG practice house really is (apparently they don't have a coach to keep them on a strict regiment, or any in-house practice rankings to bolster the competitive environment?!) It seems to me that the EG "Team House" is more of an EG "Frat House" where everyone plays some ladder games, knocks back a few drinks, and then hit the gym. Yeah I read those too! I love reading about my life and how it actually is from people who have no idea! LOL | ||
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NoobSkills
United States1591 Posts
On November 29 2011 02:17 VirgilSC2 wrote: This was almost the reaction I had at first upon reading the article, but after I read a few pages of posts here, including a few posts detailing how lax the EG practice house really is (apparently they don't have a coach to keep them on a strict regiment, or any in-house practice rankings to bolster the competitive environment?!) It seems to me that the EG "Team House" is more of an EG "Frat House" where everyone plays some ladder games, knocks back a few drinks, and then hit the gym. -TL only has a coach through OGS as far as I know. Perhaps someone might talk to them in a coaching fashion at events, but there is no coach. -Almost all Korean houses go to the Gym -As far as the beer I don't know the customs of the OGSTL,Korean, or EG houses. But I do agree most of the white people do not practice enough. | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On November 29 2011 02:17 VirgilSC2 wrote: This was almost the reaction I had at first upon reading the article, but after I read a few pages of posts here, including a few posts detailing how lax the EG practice house really is (apparently they don't have a coach to keep them on a strict regiment, or any in-house practice rankings to bolster the competitive environment?!) It seems to me that the EG "Team House" is more of an EG "Frat House" where everyone plays some ladder games, knocks back a few drinks, and then hit the gym. I think the general problem is that western teams in general have too few people in the house. They should have 2-3 players per race so that they can exchange the deeper aspects of the game playing that respective race. Besides, with so few people having a dedicated coach is not really worthwhile. They already have Anna who does some paper work and some pr related work. And the root of the above problem is that western teams are too spread out to have a central team house. It's not really a fault of the teams, it's just a natural consequence to how the western teams came to be. edit: regarding team houses, I think the future is teams banding together to open up houses. at least I hope this will be the standard in near future. :-) | ||
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t.Swift
United States47 Posts
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
On November 29 2011 02:23 iNcontroL wrote: Yeah I read those too! I love reading about my life and how it actually is from people who have no idea! LOL This is why I love incontrol. Well, kind of. | ||
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amazingxkcd
GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
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hesho89
Canada106 Posts
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Condor Hero
United States2931 Posts
On November 29 2011 02:10 Chill wrote: Please have more neutral writeups in the future. Games being played. Tournament being won. Fun being had. http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=205426 Just do something along the lines of that for the next writeup. Shit I bet it would take less than 5 mins, but at least people won't be so butthurt. | ||
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Linwelin
Ireland7554 Posts
On November 29 2011 02:10 Chill wrote: Please have more neutral writeups in the future. Games being played. Tournament being won. Fun being had. Rofl that's awesome Nice article, I don't really agree with some of the "upsets" but it's still a good article | ||
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Zinjil
United States166 Posts
Both articles serve to undermine the efforts of players to improve. They go about this in different ways, with the elephant article placing the idea in our minds that there is a sword of damocles hanging over the current scene, implicitly making the argument that it's not worth training now, as in a year or two there will be a massive influx of players who will immediately dominate everything about the scene, leaving nothing but table scraps for the current sc2 pros. This article calls into question the effectiveness of team houses for the bottom half of a team's performers. It seems to say that unless every member of a team is immediately and drastically improved by such an environment then the entire exercise is futile and should be looked upon by sponsors as a failure and a wasted investment. This charge is levied at EG, although if we are to take these statements as anything other than mindless team-bashing we must also inspect other teams' efforts at housing players and expect across-the-board improvement in results. The Korean teams have huge rosters (except TSL) of which half or more have never showed any concrete results in GSL. Given that these houses have been established for more than a year now, is it time to begin criticizing teams like nshoseo or mvp for only sporadically producing players who can make deep runs in tournaments? I feel as though the implications of the things said by the writing staff of TL should be more thoughtfully considered going forward, if not only to avoid the chorus of EG fans merely swapping the results question around and asking Team Liquid "Where are the results from the bottom half of your roster these days?" then to avoid giving an editorial voice to those posters who expect roster cuts or severe reprimands to every player who doesn't have a breakout performance each tournament. | ||
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VirgilSC2
United States6151 Posts
On November 29 2011 02:23 iNcontroL wrote: Yeah I read those too! I love reading about my life and how it actually is from people who have no idea! LOL This comment actually really gave me a great chuckle this morning. I wasn't trying to bash on the EG house like the article was in any case, but I think I'm not the only person who would be interested in knowing a bit more about what goes on there. Being the most prominent NA Team-House, I think we'd all like to see a bit more than IdrA sipping Whiskey on SotG and playing around in a Maserati, etc. (I like to picture iNcontroL's post in his CombatEX Canadian voice.) | ||
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FryktSkyene
United States1327 Posts
I agree with someone that posted he over reacted. It's 1 persons opinion and the way he words his post makes it seem everyone is hating of the EG house. Just another day is Pro Esports.... On November 29 2011 02:27 amazingxkcd wrote: Its not a question of whether Team houses are good, its more of whether those inside the team houses benefit from them. Its one thing to say that Team Houses are not helping, and its another thing to say that maybe the players are not completely utilizing the houses. I also agree with this! I understand you starcraft is a very stressful game and you need to take breaks everyone once in a while, but when the video of the EG house appeared it showed everyone that it's a damn nice place to live (pool, other game systems[xbox,ps3,etc] and god knows what else is there but does that take away too much time from practicing? None of us will ever know how much they actually practice unless you are there, but if Incontrol says we are practicing "8-10 hours a day before big events" and then frankly they put out terrible results besides the top 3 players it makes you wonder if they are actually practicing that amount of time or if they are, if they are practicing correctly. I don't mean to call of incontrol in this post but if you are practicing that much and still putting up very poor results your either lying about the amount of time, or your not training correctly. | ||
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catleaves
United States506 Posts
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On November 29 2011 02:37 Zinjil wrote: The Korean teams have huge rosters (except TSL) of which half or more have never showed any concrete results in GSL. Given that these houses have been established for more than a year now, is it time to begin criticizing teams like nshoseo or mvp for only sporadically producing players who can make deep runs in tournaments? on the current roster of mvp, there is only one who didn't manage to get into code A once this year (i.e. they passed the gruesome hell known as the code A qualifiers). Same can be said for nshoseo with half of the roster actually having been in code S once this year. But there were more regular GSL seasons than mlg with Korean participation (7 to 5). | ||
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Hardigan
Switzerland1297 Posts
On November 29 2011 02:38 FryktSkyene wrote: Incontrol is amazing at creating drama >.> I agree with someone that posted he over reacted. It's 1 persons opinion and the way he words his post makes it seem everyone is hating of the EG house. Just another day is Pro Esports.... I also agree with this! I understand you starcraft is a very stressful game and you need to take breaks everyone once in a while, but when the video of the EG house appeared it showed everyone that it's a damn nice place to live (pool, other game systems[xbox,ps3,etc] and god knows what else is there but does that take away too much time from practicing? None of us will ever know how much they actually practice unless you are there, but if Incontrol says we are practicing "8-10 hours a day before big events" and then frankly they put out terrible results besides the top 3 players it makes you wonder if they are actually practicing that amount of time or if they are, if they are practicing correctly. I don't mean to call of incontrol in this post but if you are practicing that much and still putting up very poor results your either lying about the amount of time, or your not training correctly. so.... TL is "shitting" on EG and you call Incontrol amazing at creating drama? They have a practise shedulde but also free time. So they aren't allowed to have a live besides sc2? Maybe they don't practise as much as maybe Slayers, but you know what? Not every player in Slayers are world class like MMA. | ||
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