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United States33559 Posts
June 13
All Gamers signs Coffee - Twitter/X
June 11
HeroMarine to play for OFFSYDE Esports as mercenary player in WTL: Twitter/X
June 9th
Weibo Gaming partners with Dragon KaiZi Gaming, DKZ to change name to Weibo Gaming - Weibo
June 5
Blacklist International signs Creator - Twitter/X
May 30
Falcons Esports sign Rogue and Bunny: Twitter/X
May 17
Twisted Minds signs Stats: Twitter/X
May 16
BLEED Esports signs NightMare: Twitter/X
May 15
Virtus Pro signs Astrea: Twitter/X
April 25
Trap completes military service and returns to competitive play - Twitter/X
April 23
WTL Rosters revealed
Notable mercenaries
BASILISK: ShoWTimE
PSISTORM: Spirit
Platinum Heroes: Kelazhur
April 17
soO joins Dragon KaiZi Gaming - Weibo
March 7
Bunny joins Team Falcons - per Kenzi (KR journalist) on Twitter/X
February 28
SHIN (RagnaroK) joins Gaimin Gladiator - Twitter/X
February 15
PartinG joins afterMath Esports - Twitter/X
February 13
Bunny and SHIN leave Mystery Gaming - Twitter/X (1) - (2)
Astrea leaves Matcherino - Twitter/X
February 5
ONSYDE launch sister team OFFSYDE. Rex, Firefly, and Control join OFFSYDE - Twitter/X
World Team League hints at easing of loan/partnership rules due to off-season roster movements - Twitter/X
February 1
Vitality partners with ONSYDE - Vitality.gg
January 30
Dark joins TALON Esports - Twitter/X
January 29
Kelazhur joins R8 Esports - Twitter/X
January 14th
Dark leaves Dragon KaiZi Gaming - Twitter/X
Coffee, Moukou, BreakingGG, DyyS, Shameless, Psycho loan/transfer(?) to Twisted Minds - SCBOY.cc
January 11th
DnS joins Berserker eSports - TL.net
January 1st
Armani Retires - Instagram (Korean)
DnS leaves Platinum Heroes - Twitter/X
NightMare leaves Matcherino - Twitter/X
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Canada8989 Posts
The NightMare one has me a bit worried, it doesn't seem to make sense for either Nightmare or Matcherino to end their partnership with a WTL spot in hand unless either one is considering taking a step back from Starcraft.
Hopefully, we'll learn that Nightmare is transferring to another team soon.
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Go well into the future Armani!
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China6330 Posts
Word from today's WTL cast is that several prominent orgs are also getting to SC2 with one of them already signing a top level player.
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Canada8989 Posts
On January 08 2024 03:10 digmouse wrote:
Word from today's WTL cast is that several prominent orgs are also getting to SC2 with one of them already signing a top level player.
Cloud 9, Na'vi and now more teams joining SC2 in 2024. It feels like the longer I follow esport the less it makes sense to me.
But hey, I'll for sure take it!
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United States33559 Posts
On January 08 2024 03:10 digmouse wrote:
Word from today's WTL cast is that several prominent orgs are also getting to SC2 with one of them already signing a top level player.
It would suck if Gamers8 causes a bunch of "tier 1" esports orgs to sign 1~2 players each, but not enough so that they can field a real WTL roster. Really hope that the orgs getting into SC2 are also signing some of the mid-tier players alongside the stars and thinking seriously about WTL.
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China6330 Posts
Yeah I'm not really sure this is a "great" thing necessarily. If all this does was to take top level players away from WTL, for the league the competition is only going to suffer. The worse part is I don't think any of the big orgs are doing this with WTL in mind. They are only doing this for the Saudi thing.
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The fact we have big organizations signing SC2 players is a great thing. Who cares whether it is for the Saudi money or for more? The players are comfortably being supported in the short term and this gives the organizations an opportunity to learn this "dead game" and hopefully invest more in the future.
It's jokes how the Internet is angry at the Saudi money yet turns a blind eye on the atrocities committed by other countries, present or past. If our politicians are OK with dealing these countries, what are you going to do as a resident of your respective country? Boycott the game? Talk shit on the Internet? Cool, go ahead. Life (and the e-sport) carries on with or without you.
It's like how people are protesting the Israel-Palestine war right now. I'm all for protesting and voicing yourself, but to put others in danger is a big no-no. I remember 2 weeks ago, these protestors blocked off an overpass and were dangling flags on the overpass down onto the highway. Traffic slowed to a crawl on the pass and highway. It was dangerous.
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On January 08 2024 11:59 geokilla wrote:
The fact we have big organizations signing SC2 players is a great thing. Who cares whether it is for the Saudi money or for more? The players are comfortably being supported in the short term and this gives the organizations an opportunity to learn this "dead game" and hopefully invest more in the future.
It's jokes how the Internet is angry at the Saudi money yet turns a blind eye on the atrocities committed by other countries, present or past. If our politicians are OK with dealing these countries, what are you going to do as a resident of your respective country? Boycott the game? Talk shit on the Internet? Cool, go ahead. Life (and the e-sport) carries on with or without you.
It's like how people are protesting the Israel-Palestine war right now. I'm all for protesting and voicing yourself, but to put others in danger is a big no-no. I remember 2 weeks ago, these protestors blocked off an overpass and were dangling flags on the overpass down onto the highway. Traffic slowed to a crawl on the pass and highway. It was dangerous.
I like how you jumped fully enraged into the conversation, but completly missed the point everyone was making. No, big orgs signing SC2 players isn't a "great thing", atleast not how it is now. Yes, for Spirit and GuMiho it surely is great, no doubt. And for the selected few that might also get signed aswell. But none of them would have quit the game (probably) if this didn't happen in the next year.
So it is good but not necessarily necessary for some few player, but leaves a bad impact on the scene, since it takes out these good players from WTL. THAT was the point here. This year, WTL basically had every great name in SC2 in it, with very few exceptions (GuMiho, Heromarine and Showtime are the three that come to mind). Would be a shame if more and more players get bought out next year only for the Saudi-thing. Because that does basically nothing for SC2 as a scene, neither short- nor long-term.
And if you seriously think all of this will jump-start a trend that orgs like C9 and NaVi sign more players "in the future"...yeah, no.
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United States33559 Posts
On January 08 2024 11:59 geokilla wrote:
The fact we have big organizations signing SC2 players is a great thing. Who cares whether it is for the Saudi money or for more? The players are comfortably being supported in the short term and this gives the organizations an opportunity to learn this "dead game" and hopefully invest more in the future.
It's jokes how the Internet is angry at the Saudi money yet turns a blind eye on the atrocities committed by other countries, present or past. If our politicians are OK with dealing these countries, what are you going to do as a resident of your respective country? Boycott the game? Talk shit on the Internet? Cool, go ahead. Life (and the e-sport) carries on with or without you.
It's like how people are protesting the Israel-Palestine war right now. I'm all for protesting and voicing yourself, but to put others in danger is a big no-no. I remember 2 weeks ago, these protestors blocked off an overpass and were dangling flags on the overpass down onto the highway. Traffic slowed to a crawl on the pass and highway. It was dangerous.
Such a weird post that's just going in every direction.
Let's put the really random interjection of whataboutism aside (we've argued this endlessly in other threads; my stance is always 'there's absolutely nothing wrong with picking and choosing your moral stands compared to doing nothing').
If you're a fan of WTL and team competition, non-WTL teams poaching talent obviously isn't great. That doesn't mean fans of WTL have to preface every post with "congrats to the players for the paychecks, BUT..." No one is telling pros not to take the Tier 1 org money so fans can have WTL. It's nothing complicated.
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On January 08 2024 12:49 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2024 11:59 geokilla wrote:
The fact we have big organizations signing SC2 players is a great thing. Who cares whether it is for the Saudi money or for more? The players are comfortably being supported in the short term and this gives the organizations an opportunity to learn this "dead game" and hopefully invest more in the future.
It's jokes how the Internet is angry at the Saudi money yet turns a blind eye on the atrocities committed by other countries, present or past. If our politicians are OK with dealing these countries, what are you going to do as a resident of your respective country? Boycott the game? Talk shit on the Internet? Cool, go ahead. Life (and the e-sport) carries on with or without you.
It's like how people are protesting the Israel-Palestine war right now. I'm all for protesting and voicing yourself, but to put others in danger is a big no-no. I remember 2 weeks ago, these protestors blocked off an overpass and were dangling flags on the overpass down onto the highway. Traffic slowed to a crawl on the pass and highway. It was dangerous. Such a weird post that's just going in every direction. Let's put the really random interjection of whataboutism aside (we've argued this endlessly in other threads; my stance is always 'there's absolutely nothing wrong with picking and choosing your moral stands compared to doing nothing'). If you're a fan of WTL and team competition, non-WTL teams poaching talent obviously isn't great. That doesn't mean fans of WTL have to preface every post with "congrats to the players for the paychecks, BUT..." No one is telling pros not to take the Tier 1 org money so fans can have WTL. It's nothing complicated.
But that's exactly what digimouse is indirectly saying because he fears the WTL competition will suffer. WTL is not the only competition out there. There's the weekly cups, community hosted events by casters like Wardi, OSC, list goes on. Sure they're mainly online events and smaller in comparison to WTL but it's still competition nonetheless. SC2 is mainly an online game now and I'm glad we have the big organizations coming in to this "dead game."
As for these players not being able to play in the WTL, I don't know what the rules are but maybe WTL can consider letting teams hire a mercenary if more top players get poached? I don't know how Gumiho, Heromarine, and Showtime feel not being able to play in WTL but if enough players make a noise about it, surely WTL will at least consider letting them play if they can't at the moment.
Also I honestly think we have bigger problems than whether a player can play in WTL right now. It's not the right thread for it but I think fixing balance is more important.
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Northern Ireland26265 Posts
On January 08 2024 13:08 geokilla wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2024 12:49 Waxangel wrote:On January 08 2024 11:59 geokilla wrote:
The fact we have big organizations signing SC2 players is a great thing. Who cares whether it is for the Saudi money or for more? The players are comfortably being supported in the short term and this gives the organizations an opportunity to learn this "dead game" and hopefully invest more in the future.
It's jokes how the Internet is angry at the Saudi money yet turns a blind eye on the atrocities committed by other countries, present or past. If our politicians are OK with dealing these countries, what are you going to do as a resident of your respective country? Boycott the game? Talk shit on the Internet? Cool, go ahead. Life (and the e-sport) carries on with or without you.
It's like how people are protesting the Israel-Palestine war right now. I'm all for protesting and voicing yourself, but to put others in danger is a big no-no. I remember 2 weeks ago, these protestors blocked off an overpass and were dangling flags on the overpass down onto the highway. Traffic slowed to a crawl on the pass and highway. It was dangerous. Such a weird post that's just going in every direction. Let's put the really random interjection of whataboutism aside (we've argued this endlessly in other threads; my stance is always 'there's absolutely nothing wrong with picking and choosing your moral stands compared to doing nothing'). If you're a fan of WTL and team competition, non-WTL teams poaching talent obviously isn't great. That doesn't mean fans of WTL have to preface every post with "congrats to the players for the paychecks, BUT..." No one is telling pros not to take the Tier 1 org money so fans can have WTL. It's nothing complicated. But that's exactly what digimouse is indirectly saying because he fears the WTL competition will suffer. WTL is not the only competition out there. There's the weekly cups, community hosted events by casters like Wardi, OSC, list goes on. Sure they're mainly online events and smaller in comparison to WTL but it's still competition nonetheless. SC2 is mainly an online game now and I'm glad we have the big organizations coming in to this "dead game." As for these players not being able to play in the WTL, I don't know what the rules are but maybe WTL can consider letting teams hire a mercenary if more top players get poached? I don't know how Gumiho, Heromarine, and Showtime feel not being able to play in WTL but if enough players make a noise about it, surely WTL will at least consider letting them play if they can't at the moment. Also I honestly think we have bigger problems than whether a player can play in WTL right now. It's not the right thread for it but I think fixing balance is more important.
For me SC2 has long suffered from a real lack of actual teams, one you can hang your hat on and support year after year and actually compete.
Of course, with many exceptions but often to me and I assume others, orgs in SC2 have felt more like rosters of individual talent rather than actual teams. There’s a lot of roster churn too which only adds to this.
WTL has done a solid job in redressing this, sadly I’m a bit older so can’t follow it as religiously as I would have as a youngster, but full credit in filling that void that the likes of Proleague left and giving us a meaningful, consistently competitive team competition.
I’m nae a fan of Gamers 8, for various reasons but its role here is only an indirect one really.
The worry is that big, traditional big hitters in eSports will hoover up SC2 players on basically personal sponsorships, potentially removing a sizeable chunk of the WTL roster from contention and gutting the competition. Which is a reasonable worry, be you as personally invested as digimouse is, or merely a humble fan as yours truly.
Aside from the individuals involved, and fair play to them, it’s a short period to earn your crust, SC2 really isn’t going to benefit in a wider sense if what’s being worried about occurs. I highly doubt x follower of another eSport is gonna be drawn to check out SC2 just because some big orgs make a few pickups. As well as the aforementioned potential knock-ons on something like WTL
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On January 08 2024 11:01 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2024 03:10 digmouse wrote:
Word from today's WTL cast is that several prominent orgs are also getting to SC2 with one of them already signing a top level player. It would suck if Gamers8 causes a bunch of "tier 1" esports orgs to sign 1~2 players each, but not enough so that they can field a real WTL roster. Really hope that the orgs getting into SC2 are also signing some of the mid-tier players alongside the stars and thinking seriously about WTL.
NAVI would already have recruited somebody else than Spirit and Cloud 9 only Gumiho, and already the former is not exactly what I would call top class (but he's very good) - That is, if these teams had a more ideal approach to it.
I don't expect them to recruit the likes of DnS anytime soon, even for WTL. If the goal is more to expand the brand for the purposes of the Saudi event, you don't really need more than 1-2 players or teams per esport. The WTL prize money will probably be dwarfed in comparison.
Other teams will have to put in more effort to recruit/retain their players.
In the end I can see digmouse's response about it. I'm just not surprised.
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On January 08 2024 14:38 Philippe wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2024 11:01 Waxangel wrote:On January 08 2024 03:10 digmouse wrote:
Word from today's WTL cast is that several prominent orgs are also getting to SC2 with one of them already signing a top level player. It would suck if Gamers8 causes a bunch of "tier 1" esports orgs to sign 1~2 players each, but not enough so that they can field a real WTL roster. Really hope that the orgs getting into SC2 are also signing some of the mid-tier players alongside the stars and thinking seriously about WTL. NAVI would already have recruited somebody else than Spirit and Cloud 9 only Gumiho, and already the former is not exactly what I would call top class (but he's very good) - That is, if these teams had a more ideal approach to it. I don't expect them to recruit the likes of DnS anytime soon, even for WTL. If the goal is more to expand the brand for the purposes of the Saudi event, you don't really need more than 1-2 players or teams per esport. The WTL prize money will probably be dwarfed in comparison. Other teams will have to put in more effort to recruit/retain their players. In the end I can see digmouse's response about it. I'm just not surprised.
Well, you still need players that are likely to reach top 8. Gumiho seems a bit more likely for that than Spirit, but both are really on the will they/won't they cutoff. Maybe they were cheap pickups? But if you need the top 8 finish to reach the 2-game cutoff, it really seems like you'd want to pick up multiple players capable of doing it, or a player who is very likely to reach top 8 (so Serral, Reynor, Maru, Solar or Clem at the moment)
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On January 09 2024 00:28 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2024 14:38 Philippe wrote:On January 08 2024 11:01 Waxangel wrote:On January 08 2024 03:10 digmouse wrote:
Word from today's WTL cast is that several prominent orgs are also getting to SC2 with one of them already signing a top level player. It would suck if Gamers8 causes a bunch of "tier 1" esports orgs to sign 1~2 players each, but not enough so that they can field a real WTL roster. Really hope that the orgs getting into SC2 are also signing some of the mid-tier players alongside the stars and thinking seriously about WTL. NAVI would already have recruited somebody else than Spirit and Cloud 9 only Gumiho, and already the former is not exactly what I would call top class (but he's very good) - That is, if these teams had a more ideal approach to it. I don't expect them to recruit the likes of DnS anytime soon, even for WTL. If the goal is more to expand the brand for the purposes of the Saudi event, you don't really need more than 1-2 players or teams per esport. The WTL prize money will probably be dwarfed in comparison. Other teams will have to put in more effort to recruit/retain their players. In the end I can see digmouse's response about it. I'm just not surprised. Well, you still need players that are likely to reach top 8. Gumiho seems a bit more likely for that than Spirit, but both are really on the will they/won't they cutoff. Maybe they were cheap pickups? But if you need the top 8 finish to reach the 2-game cutoff, it really seems like you'd want to pick up multiple players capable of doing it, or a player who is very likely to reach top 8 (so Serral, Reynor, Maru, Solar or Clem at the moment)
It depends how the "Team-point system" for Gamers8 will run. If just having a player in a competition already gives you points, then Spirit is a really solid pickup. We don't know the distribution yet, but last year Europe got like 12 spots or something. Right now, Spirit is 5th place in the EU ranking, so even if EU gets less spots, he should be fairly safe to qualify.
Combine that with the fact that Spirit is probably a lot cheaper than Serral/Reynor/Clem (especially since you would need to buy them out) and you get an excellent pickup for NaVi.
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Thank you for all the great games, Armani. Best of luck in your future endeavors!
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Northern Ireland26265 Posts
Glhf Armani, will never forget the hype when you randomly signed up for one of our Irish weeklies! Plus some of those GSL runs :p
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Bot edit.
User was banned for this post.
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DnS has joined Berserker eSports.
Hopefully he'll strengthen our roster for the next WTL qualifiers!
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EPT
