EPTI'll give a vote-count soon-ish. There are 11 hours until the lynch deadline.
Big thanks to Bum and Decon for replacing in on short notice.
Team Melee Mini Mafia - Couples Therapy - Page 20
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Palmar
Iceland22630 Posts
I'll give a vote-count soon-ish. There are 11 hours until the lynch deadline. Big thanks to Bum and Decon for replacing in on short notice. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22630 Posts
On November 04 2011 11:23 redFF wrote: ... ##unvote ##Vote wherebugsgo This vote does not count as it's for a person not a team | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On November 04 2011 04:30 Radfield wrote: GMan, you don't get off that easy though. You built a case on Prp, then wibble-wobbled at the end of it. Your next post basically says the same thing: he might be scum, but he might not. Yet, you're vote remains squarely on Team Viking(Prp & Forumite). Do you think Team Viking is worthy of lynching right now? No, I don't, I fully admit my case was extremely weak, I was merely stirring up things to see how people reacted and try to get a better read on the situation. I voted for them with a relatively weak case because I felt like there was no real progress being made in the thread, and I wanted to open a new avenue of attack. I specifically wanted to see their reactions. I would say I wasn't as effective as I could have been because I let my uncertainty shine through. Still some interesting results did come of it. I'll be back with something interesting soon(tm) | ||
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Crofty
United Kingdom13 Posts
Back now and at work, so I can browse through what has been said, and weigh in, on what has been said. so we had a team flake out and be replaced by two other people? | ||
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Forumite
Sweden3280 Posts
On November 04 2011 17:40 Kurumi wrote: Could You hold Your horses till I come back from school ? I am not lurking , I simply dont have time , this week is exhausting and I have two tests today too . We´ve allready waited long enough. There´s two of you in Team Nipple, you should have been able to add at least something to the discussion during the first 36 hours of the day, instead of just posting a generic policy post that could have been from any other game on this forum. In fact, the only suggestion that you are reading the thread is defending from my accusation, so it´s not just plain inactivity, you are actively lurking, reading the thread without posting. Scum, scum, scum! It´s not like the game just started and they can´t post right this hour, it´s been more than a day, if they can´t find time in a full day to post in Mafia, then why would they even join a game? This is especially bad because 1) none of them have mentioned anything about having trouble finding time D1, and 2) there´s TWO of them, they should have twice the activity of a normal player. Team Nipple is absolutely useless to us, we know nothing of them or their motivations, they are contributing nothing to the discussion, and there´s nothing suggesting this will change. I´d hate to see a team like that around for the LYLO. It´s only about 10 hours left in the day, it´s time we decided on who to lynch. Me and prplhz will be gone for the last 6 hours of the day, so I would prefer if this discussion was done now, and not left for when we´re gone. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22630 Posts
Team SS: 3 votes Team S&G Consulting Team Switzerland Team Vikings Team Edward: 1 vote Team Chezinu Team Liquid: 1 vote Team Red21 Team Vikings: 1 vote Team Liquid The following teams have not voted yet: Team Edward Team SS Team Nipple With 9 teams alive it takes 5 votes to achieve a lynch. The deadline is 22:00 GMT (+00:00) tonight, or about 10 hours from this post. Any teams not voting by the deadline will be modkilled, with 2 people per team there is no excuse for missing a vote. | ||
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Forumite
Sweden3280 Posts
On November 04 2011 20:41 Crofty wrote: Not that bad, the two replacements were on two different teams, one in Team SS, one in Team Switzerland. Right, so was away last night, so I didn't have much time to check what had been posted. Back now and at work, so I can browse through what has been said, and weigh in, on what has been said. so we had a team flake out and be replaced by two other people? | ||
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Kurumi
Poland6130 Posts
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
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Forumite
Sweden3280 Posts
On November 04 2011 21:27 Kurumi wrote: Im fucking sorry for attending to school and having a lot of exams nowadays , its not my fucking fault Rebirth is inactive , also I am using my smartphone to post . Honestly , why everytime I try to do well I get auto pegged as scum ? Yes , I think no lynch is an option . Yes I think it is a good option . Everybody dabbled how it makes scum lurk and shit , but honestly , how different is it from a lurker lynch ? I am honestly sorry for having a lot of lessons during the week , totally my fault. If I had time to read entire thread fast enough (I will after school today) I would . I thought You could wait . That´s the thing, I´ve allready waited, I waited the whole day yesterday for you to get back to the game by yourself, without having to be threatend with a lynch. You only answer when I call attention to your lurking, which makes me think you care more about not dying than helping Town. I understand that IRL frequently get in the way of the game, but I expect players to inform us if that is the case, and there´s no mention of you being busy in this thread. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On November 03 2011 19:04 prplhz wrote: RebirthOfLegend's team mini game was an entirely different game where the setup itself made mentor/newbie teams. You lurked hardcore through that game and ended up getting lynched as DT, leading to a perfect mafia victory. I don't get why you are trying to shut discussion down. Nobody is lynching hyshes yet, but his plan did look like it was conceived by a mafia mind. Then you bring out an explanation about why plans are usually posted in the thread, covering a lot of scenarios that clearly do not apply, and missing the scenario that did apply. hyshes didn't try to draw out mafia by intentionally posting a bad plan and I don't think that hyshes seems like he is bad at thinking up plans. hyshes made his post, knowing that the plan could not be implemented just to appear clever. Mafia will have an interest in appearing to be good or potentially good for town, without actually contributing. This is what hyshes did and this is a scenario that your sharp mind did not cover in your plan analysis for some reason. Coming back to RebirthOfLegend's team mini game, in that game you were DT and you checked inactives, because then scum would be forced to be active and active scum is scum that cannot hide. I see your concerns about people trying to confirm themselves 100% by just posting a falsifiable quicktopic. But this is more activity that mafia will have to do, and this will give town more content to analyse and bigger chance for scum to do something unfortunate. I see your concerns about using mechanics instead of analysis, this is not how it should be done, but forcing scum to do extra work and increasing their chances of slipping, I think that's something chaoser from RebirthOfLegend's team mini game would have liked? You still think that checking inactives is the best way to play as a DT? There's not going to be many inactives in this game I think, even though some teams have been weirdly silent, so should DT try to confirm some of the more active analyzers? This is wrong. Checking inactives, or even less active players is the best way to play DT. Analysis will out any moderately active players/teams, lurkers are annoying. It's tough as a DT, but you have to check inactives and not the people you "suspect" because at the end of the day if you are at lylo with 2 moderately inactive teams/players and have barely anything to read on both of them that's a bad situation. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
At some point presumably you will have time today, yes? Who do you think is the best target for the lynch? Do you still think no-lynch is the best option? If you think we should no-lynch, which teams do you think are likely town. We need to consolidate our votes at this point. Sandro + Decon: Anyone voting for Sandro+Sevyrn needs to reaffirm that they still think this is the best lynch. I don't think it' a terrible lynch, as Sandro is rubbing me the wrong way. However, he is a solid player and I'm confident he will either start to make sense or start to look very red. Kurumi + RoL: Lurker Lynch. Kurumi has used a lot of words and very little content, while RoL has used no words at all.. I'm not sure why you are playing the upset card here though Kurumi. What you posted was fairly generic, despite whether you are trying to be helpful or not. Also, RoL's actions DO reflect on you, whether you like it or not, just like Bugs reflects on me, and so on. It's not your fault, but it's something you have to accept. On November 03 2011 09:55 iGrok wrote: I did post yet. I've been talking with my partner so far. You know me, all I ever do is lurk the first half of D1. I'll break this wide open end of D1 or N1, don't worry iGrok, it's now the second have of day 2, so it's time for you to break things out. I'll admit that I'm mildly skeptical of you actually discussing much with your partner considering the circumstances, but that's neither here nor there. I assume you have plenty to contribute to the lynch discussion at this point. Chaoser and Hyshes: A good lynch target at this point, though I'm willing to be swayed. Hyshes: I do not think Hyshes is scummy because he came into the thread and proposed a bad plan. In fact, that is NOT what happened. Hyshes did not propose any plan at all, because his 'plan' was obviously impossible long before he brought it up. Yet this did not stop him from speaking at length about it. Does this make him scum? Of course not, but certain people here feel that proposing bad plans is a townie trait(certainly not always true) but that is most emphatically NOT what happened. Since then he has contributed nothing to the lynch discussion, and has played the newbie card several times. Chaoser: I fully agree with his views regarding posting logs. The game of Mafia should be played as Mafia. That being said I also recognize how supersofts plan was abusive to town. Town players generally do not react angrily to abusive pro-town plans(see PYPI where everyone who was really upset about Jimbo smurfing IRC was scum). However, I'm willing to write that off as a null-tell at best. What I am NOT willing to write off as a null tell is the fact that Chaoser has almost no contribution outside of his own defense. In PYPI Chaoser came alive with posts to defend himself and very little else(as scum). He is doing a similar thing here, as well as giving himself excuses for future inactivity(advisory capacity). To be perfectly clear Chaoser, I do not think you are scum because you are defending yourself, simply because you are only defending yourself. What are your reads Chaoser, who is scum, who is town, who should we lynch today. Show me that I'm wrong.... dazzle me... | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
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Forumite
Sweden3280 Posts
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
TEAM RED21 ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Qjg75.jpg) We are the inquisition. We are the eyes of the emperor. Tremble Heretics and Traitors, for your time is at hand So, I've spent the last day or so, reading through people's meta and trying to figure out alignments in an attempt to give us a good lynch. As I've said, I'm not happy with the sandroba lynch, so I decided to try to find actual scum, and lo and behold, I think I have, in our good friends, kitaman and redFF. Sure lurky mclurky team Nipple needs to step up their game, but knowing RoL's scum style I'm tempted to believe he is legitimately occupied, rather than deliberately lurking. Anyway, this will be a two for one deal, two players, two different analysis. So, lets start with the xeno scum, kita: Part 1: The Xenos: Kitaman27 ![[image loading]](http://dibujantes.org/images/Dibujo/Grandes/Genestealer.jpg) That, ladies and gentlemen is the face of the enemy. Purge it with fire and steel So, kitaman, let's talk about him. For the convenience of the lazy, here is his filter. Lets look at the salient features of his scum play and his town play in other games, and compare it to his behavior this game. From reading TL Mafia XXXIX- a few heuristics seem to crop up, in particular kita displays the following behaviors:
2.) Shows a particular focus on pressuring lurkers 3.) Looks for "scummy" contradictions where there are none, and for shifts in meta that don't actually prove anything This is further corroborated by his behavior in personality mafia where kita
2.) Calls out lurkers These stances are in direct contraposition to his behavior in Dr.H's Haunted Mini and in PTP2, where kita focuses not on lurkers (despite there being several), but keeping the town focused on finding scum, going as far as dragging up suspects and moving the town away from discussing the puzzles, since that allows mafia to blend in easily. Thus we can conclude that when kita is scum, he focuses on a style that allows him to blend in seamlessly with the town, by pretending to contribute, and occasionally pushing easy lynches and finding "contradictions" and "tells" not actually backed by scum motives. Keeping this in mind, we should examine his posts this game, and see what his behavior is like, watching out for three things
2.) Kita trying to appear contributory by discussing "pro-town" things that don't allow us to actually find scum, like say, lurkers 3.) Kita not making an active effort to scumhunt or find a reasonable lynch suspect. That in mind, let us look at this post On November 03 2011 09:19 kitaman27 wrote: Also, we've all read our role pms. New discussion topic please. This is a wonderful post on two fronts: it seems pro-town as it looks to move away from a terrible topic of discussion, but doesn't offer an alternative. If kita wasn't on your radar yet, this post should have put him on there. Notice how he also doesn't come up with an opinion on the person proposing the plan, or propose another topic of discussion, he simply says "move on". This is a post that contributes without contributing, it shoots down a terrible plan, yes, but it does so with out adding anything to the discussion, or telling us anything about kita or those proposing the plan. Next is the wonderful situation where kita tries to gather information on my stance on team viking, which is by itself a null tell, other than considering it took him a while to express his opinion (that team viking is town), and that he never provides very solid reasons for his opinion. Still that is relatively forgivable, as there is no inherent town or scum motivation behind those actions. And then we reach the real gem, the post I was just *waiting* for, a post taking a null tell and spinning it to kita's advantage. The post in question is quoted below On November 04 2011 03:44 kitaman27 wrote: Since when does town GM bully people around like this? There are several things of note in this post, first is the fact that this fits kita's scum meta perfectly, he is going for the "low hanging fruit", finding something that is not in any way an indicator of alignment and spinning it as such. This is *exactly* what happened when kita "caught" redtooth lying about having smurfed in other mafia games in the past, he took a completely irrelevant piece of data and tried to spin it in such a way as to discredit and throw suspicion on a townie. Furthermore there is the lack of an actual case being built around this, if kita thinks I am scum (and this post seems to indicate that), why isn't he pushing for my lynch? Possibly because its not an easy lynch? Then we get all of kita's wonderful attempts at directing attention at lurkers, you know, exactly what he did in XXXIX, frankly lurkers are another example of low hanging fruit, I have no issue with calling them out, every so often, but its something town kita doesn't do. You can see his newfound interest in non-contributors in this post, this post and this post. This fascination is not normal for kitaman. Its another attempt at buying town credit without having to work for it. Then there are the math posts. Deary me I love the math posts On November 04 2011 03:59 kitaman27 wrote: 7v2 Mislynch 5v2 Mislynch 3v2 LYLO 7v2 No lynch 6v2 No lynch 5v2 Mislynch 3v2 LYLO Essentially we are trading 1 mislynch for 48 hours of disccusion, during which nobody is threatened because they know there won't be a lynch. The odds of hitting scum statistically are unfavorable every day. That doesn't mean you don't try. Or you could try to come up with a more convincing case yourself. We agree the prpl one is bad, how about the other 6 teams? Do you know why scum, love setup discussion? Because playing with numbers is easier than scumhunting! The fact that he goes back and does all these statistics, by itself, doesn't mean much, but in conjunction with the rest of his behavior its easy to see that he is just buying credit. Also interesting is that he takes the least controversial position, supporting lynching, and only after two other people have decided to support it. Certainly not hogging the spotlight, that's for sure. On November 04 2011 05:18 kitaman27 wrote: Blues are a nice safety net, but it really doesn't benefit us that much to base our gameplan around them by no-lynching. First the jailer has to block the correct shooter, then the jailer has to consider that a doctor could have prevented the shot or that the mafia decided not to shoot, then the jailer has to decide whether he roleblocked a mafia or protected a town, then the jailer has to sucessfully push his case in the thread. Parity cop has to survive to day three to be of any use. Assuming worse case scenario where we mislynch the first two days: There is a 1/9 chance he gets lynched day one. A 2/6 chance he gets discovered or shot night one. A 1/7 chance he gets lynched day two. A 1/3 chance he gets shot night two. Which is only about a 10% sucess rate (correct me if I made a mistake here). Going with a double no lynch increases the survival rate of the parity cop slightly, but it really doesn't seem worth giving up a lynch in exchange. Again, more math, when we have already established why no-lynching is bad, kita feels the urge to keep discussing it, rather than moving on, having already made his point, he does more math, because it looks good to have huge posts that "prove" your pro-town stance. And then there is this post: On November 04 2011 10:52 kitaman27 wrote: Oh prime scum team? Funny, you haven't pointed out anything that was actually scummy. At this point, I believe the scum team is contained in this set of players. Ideally I'd like to be able to narrow it down as more people start to post, but RoL, Kurumi, Crofty, iGrok, and Katzeleute all need to give us more to work with. 1. sandroba & Sevryn Deconduo - TEAM SS 3. Radfield & wherebugsgo - TEAM CHEZINU 4. Kurumi & RebirthOfLeGenD - TEAM NIPPLE 5. Crofty & Gmarshal - TEAM LIQUID 7. chaoser & hyshes - TEAM EDWARD 8. iGrok & Katzeleute - TEAM SWITZERLAND Dear god, this post. Lets he calls out lurkers, and posts that he thinks that 6/8 other people might be scum. Wow, what a wonderful contribution! How *useful*, especially when it includes such brilliant justifications. This is essentially kita publishing a list of two town reads, for no real reason, and lo and behold! Its another long, worthless post, that doesn't directly accuse anyone of being scum! It doesn't even point out why any of those might be scum. No townie with his head screwed on straight would post this. Kita is experienced enough to know that this is a terrible post, and I cannot ascribe any town motivation to writing it. Its a clear and blatant attempt at contributing without contributing. Where are posts like On August 07 2011 06:42 kitaman27 wrote: Oh wow didn't realize the voting ended mid-day. Good thing I checked back in time. Are people around? I'm not sure I like the three main candidates. Do we have enough votes to switch to someone like Curu if necessary? He is promoting a policy lynch, without much explanation, and has put little effort compared to what I'm used to. ##Vote Curu from haunted mini, where kita actually takes stances and calls out people for being scum? Nowhere to be found, all we can find here are "suspicions" and little else, with a lot of "contributions" that don't actually say anything. Ladies and gentlemen, as can be clearly seen, kita is farming town rep without actually contributing anything, he is managing to *look* helpful, while happily not accusing anyone really and picking low hanging fruit in the form of pushing non-tells and lurkers. This man cares not for lynching scum, he just wants to look pro-town. Kitaman is scum, a xenos and a moral threat against the empire of man. Do not allow him to live Part 2: The Heretic, RedFF ![[image loading]](http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2009/1/12/15609_sm-Artwork,%20Chaos,%20Copyright%20Games%20Workshop,%20Inquisitor,%20Slaves%20To%20Darkness.JPG) The enemy in our midst. To tolerate his existence is blasphemy. To allow him his life unthinkable Ah, redFF, my friend, how you have fallen. Once again, as with all good analysis, let us take a look back at past games, and compare and contrast the behavioral differences between redFF and greenFF. For my baseline scum game I will be using BC's Arkham Asylum. For his town behavior I will be using Personality Mafia and Resurrection Mafia. First of all, what does RedFF do as town?
2.) He participates in discussion and contributes actively 3.) He questions everything While he has a bunch of annoying spammy posts, in general he also contribute his thoughts and actively seeks out scum. He basically behaves as the quintessential transparent townie As scum however, his behavior is the exact opposite, he sticks to generalities (using clues to scumhunt is bad, lurking is bad, etc), he generally posts a lot of useless spam, that makes him seem active, yet never actually adds anything to discussion. He occasionally defends townies and if pushed will indicate a single target as "scum" with shoddy reasoning. So basically what we are looking for with redFF are not indications that he is scum, but rather a lack of indications that he is town. That is, if he is not active and helpful then he is almost guaranteed to be scum. That said, lets look at his filter. Anything jump out at you? Any great analytically posts? Any attempts at finding mafia? Look hard, because there are none. Where are posts like this? Nowhere to be seen. Or posts like this seeking to guide the town? Nowhere, there are none. The closest to an "accusation" that redFF manages to produce this game is On November 04 2011 10:08 redFF wrote: gmarshal is still mafia! with no analysis, no support, no leadership, nothing. All redFF has done is spew garbage. Oh, right and OMGUS with this gem On November 04 2011 11:23 redFF wrote: hes just giving his reads. its funny that this is the first time you've attacked us and its just after decon fos'd us. scum. ##unvote ##Vote wherebugsgo Once again, no reasoning, no support, just garbage. No comments on the no lynch situation other than "lol, no", without actually backing up why he thinks this, or providing an alternate avenue of discussion. This ridiculous trolling and lack of any effort or contribution is the exact opposite of how a somewhat annoying yet constructive town RedFF plays. Post like this are just entirely absent. RedFF isn't contributing because he is scum, and has no motivation to do so. RedFF is a foul heretic and a traitor and must meet his swift demise. Now. TL:DR Kitaman is scum, becuse he fails toreally contribute, instead hiding behind apparent contributions, this lines up with his scum meta. Kita is simply failing to push his usual town objectives and actively hunt scum, and is instead fostering suspicion and being unhelpful RedFF is playing an anti-town spammy style that is entirely unlike his contributory, transparent, spammy, town style. This somewhat matches his scum play, and is a clear indication that he is obviously not a townie, since he doesn't care what happens to the town. Team Red21 reeks of corruption and evil and needs to die, before they manage to taint this thread any further | ||
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/D0fRe.jpg) ##Unvote: Team Viking ##Vote: Team Red21 ~High Inquisitor GMarshal, of the Ordo Malleus. | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On November 04 2011 22:50 kitaman27 wrote: What are your thoughts on the GM/Crofty duo, Radfield? Some things about GM look off, and others look good. He is very active though so his play should sort itself out one way or the other. I do not think he is on the table for today. On November 04 2011 22:59 Forumite wrote: The only thing Kurumi and RoL have shown me with their latest posts is that they are reading the thread without posting. I don´t have much time before I need to leave so any contribution from them need to be right now. I will also not be around for the deadline, but I hope WBG will be(though I'm not sure). I will check from work if I can. If there are any other teams that will not be around tonight we need to know. | ||
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
On November 04 2011 10:52 kitaman27 wrote: Oh prime scum team? Funny, you haven't pointed out anything that was actually scummy. At this point, I believe the scum team is contained in this set of players. Ideally I'd like to be able to narrow it down as more people start to post, but RoL, Kurumi, Crofty, iGrok, and Katzeleute all need to give us more to work with. 1. sandroba & Sevryn Deconduo - TEAM SS 3. Radfield & wherebugsgo - TEAM CHEZINU 4. Kurumi & RebirthOfLeGenD - TEAM NIPPLE 5. Crofty & Gmarshal - TEAM LIQUID 7. chaoser & hyshes - TEAM EDWARD 8. iGrok & Katzeleute - TEAM SWITZERLAND redFF posting one liners instead of contributing is scummy. You posting one liners and setup fillers without contributing is scummy. You calling out other people to step while doing nothing yourself is scummy. Even this post is another piece of meaningless drivel. Instead of saying 'I think team x and y are town' you try and fluff out the post to make it seem like more content than a one liner. However its still just a one liner. Vote: Team Red21 | ||
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