Hello, I know teamliquid doesnt especially appreciate these kinds of blogs, but Im in need of help, and I don´t really know of a good person to ask about this, so hopefully someone can help me. Before I go any further, this may be a longer read, so to get a general idea, it´s me having trouble with my Christian girlfriend.
So me and this girl are 17 years old, weve only been dating for two months, but truthfully it feels like it´s been years. Since we started going out we´ve been hanging out maybe 50 hours a week which is an absurd amount, not good during final exam time and what not, but we managed. Everyone is telling us we will get bored of each other, but I don´t think it´s close to happening, everything was going great. I love her a lot and I always have something to look forward to when seeing her, she is the person who keeps me going and well she is just great.
It´s rather strange how we met, but we are very different people. I, like many people on teamliquid, are very scientific, logical thinking type of people. I am quite fit, Im not particularly amazing at any sports, but above the average joe after playing them only once or twice. I do ski a lot for fun however. Well she is more of the language, drama, arts type of girl... Nonetheless, together we have great chemistry. I knew she´s a christian from the start, and I didn´t mind at all, I mean as long as she wasn´t trying to convert me or feed it down my throat, I wouldn´t mind. I mean I think its pretty silly but if it´s what you enjoy, it´s fine by me.
So now I went on a trip to Europe for a month, as I moved here when I was little to see my parents and whatever. And my girlfriend also went to some christian camp for one week, and it just so happened that yesterday was the first time we talked since I left, about a weeks time away from each other. We were talking and she was telling me how that camp was super fun and very eye-opening. So at first I´m just thinking - great. I´m having fun here, you´re having fun there. But I had to ask what she ment when she said eye-opening.
It turns out, god gave her some visions of our relationship failing there, because they have some speeches they do there about previous experiences, and apperantly one girl there had a vision that her relationship was becoming bad, and then it did. Well now my girlfriend is having this and she is telling me shes unsure what she should do. Because to her, god comes first, and she says I´m a close second. So pretty much we have a super healthy and fun relationship, she told me that her brain thinks everything is super great and she doesn´t want anything to change, and then you have some figure that I don´t believe exists telling her otherwise. I am not able to go meet her for another 3 weeks, I can either talk to her on facebook, msn, or skype... She is freaking me out because she wants to go to another one of these camps in a week or so, I don´t want to lose her because she is everything to me. And well I´m just confused really, I´m not competing with a guy at this point, but rather with god, and I don´t like my odds there.
Thanks for any help, I´m sure some of you have been in a similiar situation before.
Don't take my advice, but if someone ever told me something like that, if they weren't trolling, I'd sincerely lose pretty much all the trust I had in this person. That's extremely weak and disrespectful.
On July 13 2011 22:00 vlf wrote: Don't take my advice, but if someone ever told me something like that, if they weren't trolling, I'd sincerely lose pretty much all the trust I had in this person. That's extremely weak and disrespectful.
It´s weird, because well, even if everything turns out okay and it was just a "phase" or something, she could start getting those thoughts again and well... I really want to stay with her, everything about her makes me so happy.
I mean even though I think it´s stupid and irrational thinking, I am not going to tell her that, and never really before has she used religious thinking to solve problems, but she´s trying to become more religious.
real advice: tell her just because it happened to someone else doesn't mean it will happen to us and that you can't know for sure until you try. (insert romantic language in there)
what i would do: if she was starting to let god interfere with our relationship (i'm like you don't believe in god) i would just say alright and drop her... there was actually a thread about this but challenging peoples beliefs just get you into trouble and it's not always worth doing... even worse with god
Ok wait, so she had visions of your relationship failing? God first and you second? Why can't she have both you and God at the same time?
I think what she's going through is kind of like a withdrawal period from addiction. You two spent practically half of each day together everyday for two months, and now that's dropped all the way down to zero for the past week. Of course she's going to have a drastic change in lifestyle and have doubts.
There's no way you can stop her from going to another of these, then the best you can do is probably assuring her that things will be back to "normal" in a couple weeks and you two will be fine. I'm not sure how religiously delusional your girlfriend might be, but maybe you can convince her that her "visions" are just her fears (of losing you) taking over.
*edit: and I personally love girl blogs, keep 'em coming!
On July 13 2011 22:00 vlf wrote: Don't take my advice, but if someone ever told me something like that, if they weren't trolling, I'd sincerely lose pretty much all the trust I had in this person. That's extremely weak and disrespectful.
I agree, though maybe thats just because i very much dislike all organized religions (you can believe in whatever you want, but if it gets organised, everything just tends to go downhill). If she rather trusts in god or some sort of vision than in you, she's not worth your time. It's basically a self-fullfilling prophecy (maybe even started by the staff of the christian camp, i wouldn't be suprised by anything in those camps): 'Vision or induced expectation': "The relationship will break" She: "I don't trust the relationship anymore, do something" You: "I can't do anything if you don't have trust in me" She: "You didn't help, the vision was right, it's over"
Well, as i said... my opinions are definatly not objective, so YMMV.
On July 13 2011 22:00 vlf wrote: Don't take my advice, but if someone ever told me something like that, if they weren't trolling, I'd sincerely lose pretty much all the trust I had in this person. That's extremely weak and disrespectful.
It´s weird, because well, even if everything turns out okay and it was just a "phase" or something, she could start getting those thoughts again and well... I really want to stay with her, everything about her makes me so happy.
I mean even though I think it´s stupid and irrational thinking, I am not going to tell her that, and never really before has she used religious thinking to solve problems, but she´s trying to become more religious.
I understand what you're saying and that's why I'm trying not to be extremely judgmental or anything, but that's exactly why I mentioned loss of trust. Can you trust someone whose feelings and actions are easily swayed by such flimsy notions in a span of weeks? Heck, I've dreamed about plenty of weird shit, doesn't mean I'll act on it. Let alone sac a meaningful relationship with another person.
Yeah, that's pretty much how you ought to approach this, shoving beliefs down your other half's throat just spells long run disaster. What I don't understand is why she feels the need to become more religious all of a sudden, she's either slightly unstable or, as I previously mentioned, easily swayed - none of which are good.
I will take this as a sincere blog post...I know it's hard but you are probably not going to last with this girl.
Where do you see yourself going with this? (I ask since you're only 17) Most kids at that age are dating for fun, I'm assuming since she is (what I would now denote) a hardcore Christian that there hasn't been anything sexual, so this relationship seems formed more on a platonic nature. I will say that from what I've experienced with a lot of Christians in my life, it is usually harder to convert someone out of Christianity than into it. If you are feeling uncomfortable, or she is continuing to force the issue that some impending bad things will come for the relationship - you might as well just have a face to face chat when you can (do it on skype if you must, but it's not the best) and just present your side of the issue.
It is not easy to make a girl choose you over religion if she has already hinted at her choice. Also, relationships in general are going to be quite difficult if one party is religious (more than loosely) and the other party is not (and not willing to convert properly, I'm not saying a situation where her family is whatever and you are converting for show/her parents etc).
Edit: This is also coming from someone who has a decent amount of experience in this, I know a lot of people, especially the internet crowd don't look favourable at religion at all or will treat it with one liners etc.
Reminds me of a girl who went on some site to check compatibility and broke up because they werent compatible, the world is full of crazy people. I feel kinda bad for you.
Get out now. You're young, two months isn't even a blip on the relationship radar in the grand scheme of things. I'd also have to echo the sentiments above, the fact she's willing to trust a crazy thought backed up by an even crazier story leaves some serious questioning to be done. If she can't open her eyes to how the situation is in reality, I can't see any hope for this working.
And really, if she's religious, you could let her go now, and if she gets less crazy maybe you can get back together later, or maybe she has a vision about the two of you working out or some other crazy ass vision. At least she wouldn't have slept with any guys!
I think you need to have a heart to heart with her ASAP. Get her on skype and talk. Talk about how you don't want to lose her and how she means the world to you. Just remind her what she means to you and ask her if she feels the same way. Then ask if she herself thinks the relationship is turning bad and ask if she's willing to let a proxy vision ruin what you guys have.
Don't pressure too hard since she'll still probably want to go to this camp thing again to find answers but just make sure she knows you're in this relationship 100%. Just knowing that you're not going to waver might make her realise that it is worth carrying on.
On July 13 2011 22:08 OpticalShot wrote: Ok wait, so she had visions of your relationship failing? God first and you second? Why can't she have both you and God at the same time?
I think what she's going through is kind of like a withdrawal period from addiction. You two spent practically half of each day together everyday for two months, and now that's dropped all the way down to zero for the past week. Of course she's going to have a drastic change in lifestyle and have doubts.
There's no way you can stop her from going to another of these, then the best you can do is probably assuring her that things will be back to "normal" in a couple weeks and you two will be fine. I'm not sure how religiously delusional your girlfriend might be, but maybe you can convince her that her "visions" are just her fears (of losing you) taking over.
*edit: and I personally love girl blogs, keep 'em coming!
Hmm, I just wish I could see her sooner, but I do think that telling her everything will be alright soon would be good. In a situation like hers though, I think her mind can play a lot of nasty tricks on her, but she should be able to keep herself together.
And to be honest Im not sure exactly how christianity works, I mean she brought me to one of her christian youth group things once, and it was more of a day to chill, but there was for maybe 30 minutes some guy saying what god wants us to do and what he doesn´t. She didn´t think they would do that stuff that one day, she was really sorry I had to hear it but I didn´t mind that. I was just kinda angry at what kind of things they were telling her there, but I was relieved because she wasn´t doing exactly what they were telling her there.
But yeah, I thought god comes first and everything else is afterwards, because you invest your life into it. I mean I don´t want it to come of douchy, asking her why god is placed so highly and I can´t be there or whatever.
On July 13 2011 21:52 FiWiFaKi wrote: So me and this girl are 17 years old, weve only been dating for two months, but truthfully it feels like it´s been years.
It turns out, god gave her some visions of our relationship failing
Because to her, god comes first, and she says I´m a close second. So pretty much we have a super healthy and fun relationship
I don´t want to lose her because she is everything to me.
This blog was hilarious. You think you're in love with someone whom you've been dating for two months, and now you're realizing that she's actually crazy. Sounds like you're only now beginning to learn what she's like, because two months is not nearly enough time to truly know another person. That, or she is bored of you, and God provides an easy, guilt free excuse to use to break up. (This seems most likely, but the crazy religious option seemed more amusing.) 5/5 would laugh at your expense again, as is the fate of these blogs.
oh man..... fuck... she got you.. what can you say to that!? naw gods wrong; or naw gods not real; or bye. shit shes good... dood that sucks.
here is a line that might help: "He may be able to see that its going to get tough but he should know how much I love you and how I will work to keep this relationship good"
One time I dated a Mormon. She wouldn't drink iced tea when i met her cause it had caffeine in it. We lost our V cards to each other and by the time I dumped her she was drinking and smoking with me ever weekend /brag so people can change.
I wasn't a sexist before I understood women. There was a time when I was blissfully ignorant. I grew up watching Disney cartoons, I believed in romance and "true love conquers all" etc. I wanted to find a woman who could be my equal, my partner. I believed in finding that one true love and being committed to each other forever. You know, like in the marriage vows, "for better or for worse, through sickness and in health, for richer or for poorer" etc. And I believed that women basically wanted the same thing. Now I understand that this was only possible when society was structured to enforce it. Now that women are "liberated" (and thus at the mercy of their own emotions and baser instincts) this is mostly no longer possible in today's society. Victorian society, or many Arab societies, are examples of how society used to be structured to keep women as faithful as possible.
I'd like to point out that I am not a misogynist...I love women. But I AM a sexist, in the sense that I believe women are vastly different than men and, according to the standards that men hold for other men, women are inferior as well.
I must be a bitter loser, right? In fact, I enjoy more success with women than most of the men in this city. I have slept with over 200 women in my life. I am sleeping with 5 different women right now. They are all normal, healthy, well-adjusted, good-looking (8+ on the looks scale) professional women. (At least as normal and healthy and well-adjusted as women can be - most women have issues.) But that's not all. I can go out any night of the week and pick up a woman. I can pick her up in front of all her friends (with 80% efficiency for each approach.) Women will slip me their phone number when their boyfriend is in the bathroom. I can talk to women on the street or in the grocery store and within 30 minutes, I can usually have sex with them right there in my car or get them back to my place. If I have to settle for a phone number, and I meet her on another day, assuming she doesn't flake, I WILL fuck her that next day.
Let me point out right now that my Modus Operandi doesn't change in the slightest if she single or if she has a boyfriend or husband. I just do my normal routine and I fuck her. Sometimes she brings up the boyfriend so she won't feel guilty when I fuck her because now it's "my fault." Sometimes she hides it from me until after I've fucked her, then she admits it. I can't tell you how many times I've been laying next to some chick, all sweaty cause I just finished busting a nut all over her face or in her mouth or on her back, and suddenly her phone rings and she's on the phone with her man, giving him some bullshit story. This is with NO GUILT WHATSOEVER!!! The sweetest most innocent girls you ever laid eyes on, will cheat at the drop of a HAT. The one thing that most men value most - loyalty - is just not there with women. Women don't think in terms of honor, women don't say "word is bond;" women are basically emotionally driven. If they feel it, they do it, period. Then they rationalize it to themselves later. Nothing is more meaningful, or compelling, to a woman than (1) the way she feels and (2) learning more about her own inner self and having emotional realizations. That's why women love astrology, chick flicks, soap operas, stupid Cosmo quizes that supposedly reveal info about yourself, etc.
I must be really good looking, right? NOPE. My looks are marginal; I'm maybe a 7. I don't work out (though I'm not fat or anything.) In fact I didn't have any success with women until I was in my early 20's. That's when I decided to go out a lot and start trying to get laid... I was willing to face rejection a thousand times a night, and do it over and over, trying everything, until I got it right. I had to completely set my ego aside. I didn't get laid at all for the first few months. Then every now and then. Then pretty often. Then downright consistently! I'm in my early 30's now and I am basically a sexual god. I wouldn't have even believed this were possible when I was in high school. The ONLY factor that determined whether a woman would cheat was my own skill level. When my skills were poor, women shit all over me. (Everyone knows how women think they have license to be rude bitches in social situations... in fact I understand and appreciate that behavior now.) But once my skills got good, I could fuck just about anyone's wife or girlfriend. And many times I didn't know they had a man until after I fucked them.
Look, I'm not saying that men are perfect, or whatever. Far from it. I'm just saying, I've spent a lot of my time studying women and interacting with them, and I know how they are. In fact, sometimes I hate knowing it. Sometimes I wish I had taken the blue pill, and never went down the rabbit hole, because now there's really no going back. I didn't want to believe these things... but how could I ever get married now? How could I ever be the chump who pays for everything and blissfully goes through life not worrying about his woman because he trusts her? Look, would you leave your dog alone with a steak? You can't hate the dog for doing what's in its nature. You can't trust a dog, BUT you can trust a dog to BE a dog. Some men are disloyal... but I could *never* trust a woman to be loyal. Some men are bad presidents...but I could *never* vote for a woman to be president. I can rarely expect a woman to regard her own promises as more important and compelling to her than the emotions she feels in the moment. She will rationalize it to herself later.
Here's an interesting fact. Did you know that the median 22 year old woman has TWICE as much sex as the median 22 year old man? You might ask, how is that possible? If a woman's having sex, doesn't that mean a man is having sex at the same time? And thus, shouldn't men be having just as much sex as women? NO...because most men hardly get laid, or if they do, it's because they "got lucky." But a small group of men get laid ALL THE TIME, and fuck LOTS AND LOTS of women! It's evolution at work. Women follow their emotions, and that leads them to sleep with men like me (who know how to control female emotions.) Women want the top man...so the top man fucks lots of women. That's right - the sexual revolution, feminism, etc has resulted in a return to harems. Women, at the mercy of their own emotions, are volunteering for the modern-day equivalent of harems. Lucky for me!! Heh.
You might say, "But...but...I'm so nice! I'm a nice guy!" Guess what? That's like a fat chick saying, "But I'm so smart!" As if those things have anything in the world to do with sexual attraction!
I'm going to give some tips here for the poor sucker guys who are posting online trying to get laid and who are spending hundreds / thousands of dollars on all those whores out there without getting any play. (You bitches know exactly what you're doing, and I'm on to your game!)
Don't be sexually judgemental in any way. A woman's worst fear is to be perceived as a slut. She will suck your toes and take it in the ass if she thinks you don't view her poorly for it (and she knows her friends won't find out.)
Don't get angry at her. Women know they have emotional outbursts and they need to trust that you can handle that. It's ok (and necessary) to occasionally put your foot down...just make sure she knows you are fully in control of yourself.
Don't let her manipulate you or control you in any way. She will immediately lose all respect for you. Always be leading. It's just like dancing - women hate a man who can't lead. When first approaching a woman or a group, they tend to get a feeling like this is just your little scheme to get close to them, when you really just want something from them - like sex. (And they're right.) It's important to structure your body language and conversation so that they honestly don't believe you want something from them. They should feel like you are about to leave at any second.
DON'T TRY TO IMPRESS HER IN ANY WAY. Don't show off. Don't talk about accomplishments or possessions. As soon as she perceives that you are trying to prove yourself to her, she loses all interest.
Don't ignore her friends. A woman values her friend's opinions more than just about anything else in the world. Nothing matters to her more than what other women are thinking. Give her friends lots of attention and get everyone laughing. If one woman is feeling different than the others, she will drag them away. They will follow like a flock of pigeons. Society is the book of women. (Notice that men do NOT behave this way! Women are very different!)
To get a woman attracted / emotionally vulnerable, give her lots of emotions and feelings. Don't just make her feel good. Make her feel good, and angry, and sad, and connected, and astonished, and intrigued, etc. Make her laugh. Tease her. Tell stories about your sick puppy. Tell her why things would never work out between the two of you. Call her a dork. If she gets heated up, she will start touching you...playfully push her away. If she calls you a jerk and punches your arm, you are doing it right. If she gives you that "I can't believe you just said that" look, do NOT back down, do not say "Oh I'm just kidding" or anything like that.
As she gets more emotional, she will try to ruin things by throwing in logic. She will ask you if you are a player, or if you say this to all the girls, or whatever. The trick is this: Don't take it seriously by giving it some logical answer! That's right...women lose interest if you take them seriously!!! It's crazy but that's how they behave. Just blow it off or misinterpret what she's saying as though she is coming on to you. If you fail these tests, she will be gone so fast your head will spin.
She will start asking you lots of questions. This is what chicks do when they suddenly find themselves attracted to a man they know nothing about. This is your chance to open up a little and also find out more about her and build a deeper connection. You have to do this, or she will flake later (even if you've kissed her!) Women are the worst flakes in the world! Don't make it too easy for her, make her work for it a bit. Then talk about connections and childhood memories and things you have in common, etc. She needs to feel that this is genuine. This is usually the time when I throw in a few fake vulnerabilities, like pretending I'm shy or insecure about something. I know it's fucked up but women need to see that there are at least a few small holes where they can sink their hooks in you. They get uneasy if you are too perfect.
Make sure she gets the feeling that you have standards and that you are judging her based on them. Ask her questions that show her you are checking her out to see if she is up to snuff. Women don't like to feel like you are with them only because you can't do any better. They prefer to feel like you have high standards; you can get any chick you want, but you chose HER because she is SOOOO special and SOOOO different from all the others. Yeah, I know.
Move her to different locations. Take her next door for a drink. Take her across the street to check out some art. The more locations the better. Take responsibility for every escalation. A woman will do just about anything as long as she doesn't have to feel like it was "her fault." Make it YOUR fault. Make it "just happen." She will rationalize it to herself later using the same bullshit generator that women use to flake out on dates at the last minute. Don't get her horny until you get her isolated. Believe me, emotional is better than horny.
Keep the woman always swinging somewhere between validation and rejection. If she feels rejected, she drops out or gets REALLY MAD. And if she feels too validated, she will ditch you in a heartbeat. So push her away (emotionally) and then pull her back in.
BELIEVE YOUR OWN BULLSHIT. Chicks do not look at your excuses and try to see if they are bullshit or not... because that is the logical thing to do, and chicks are not logical. Rather, what they do is see if YOU seem to believe your own bullshit when you say it. If you look like you do, then chances are, they will believe it too. So the key is to believe your own bullshit, and other aspects about yourself that you want the chick to believe about you too (alpha male..whatever)... because your own self beliefs for some reason will automatically 'impart' to the chick! One more thing...many guys make the mistake of listening to female romantic advice. Don't listen to them, THEY DON'T KNOW WTF THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT, and they WILL steer you wrong. They will tell you what they
THINK they want, instead of what they actually RESPOND to. And furthermore, a large part of the female sexual experience IS the inability to admit these things BECAUSE they derive sexual pleasure from putting up resistance and being overwhelmed.
If you do things this way, after a few months practice you WILL get laid like a rock star. The guys who get laid are the ones who know what they are doing, because they have practiced on lots of women. Ironically, women are most attracted to the men who are most likely to fuck them and then dump them on their ass - because those are precisely the men who have so many other options because they practice on lots of women. That's why you always hear women bitching about how men are assholes that only want to fuck them and dump them - because those are the men that they gravitate to.
Women tend to wise up when they get towards their 30s, and they start looking for a nice wimpy beta male to settle down with and pay for all their shit. As they get older, they will get more and more desperate to find this guy. Once they do, they will cheat on him with an exciting fun guy like me. (But who wants to fuck some old chick in her 30's? That's what beta males are for! Heh)
Hey, don't blame me - I didn't make things the way they are. I was just a guy who wanted to get laid. And I do.
Women tend to wise up when they get towards their 30s, and they start looking for a nice wimpy beta male to settle down with and pay for all their shit. As they get older, they will get more and more desperate to find this guy. Once they do, they will cheat on him with an exciting fun guy like me. (But who wants to fuck some old chick in her 30's? That's what beta males are for! Heh)
Hey, don't blame me - I didn't make things the way they are. I was just a guy who wanted to get laid. And I do.
(If you apply the above to your situation, your girlfriend's emotions have been won over by Christianity, and she is effectively cheating on you with Christianity. If it wasn't Christianity, it could've been another guy who had better game than you. It's easy for young and impressionable people to think Christianity is emotionally fulfilling, especially with their loud power-pop Jesus is my boyfriend worship music and over the top "God loves everyone" charisma in general.)
On July 13 2011 22:13 PartyBiscuit wrote: I will take this as a sincere blog post...I know it's hard but you are probably not going to last with this girl.
Where do you see yourself going with this? (I ask since you're only 17) Most kids at that age are dating for fun, I'm assuming since she is (what I would now denote) a hardcore Christian that there hasn't been anything sexual, so this relationship seems formed more on a platonic nature. I will say that from what I've experienced with a lot of Christians in my life, it is usually harder to convert someone out of Christianity than into it. If you are feeling uncomfortable, or she is continuing to force the issue that some impending bad things will come for the relationship - you might as well just have a face to face chat when you can (do it on skype if you must, but it's not the best) and just present your side of the issue.
It is not easy to make a girl choose you over religion if she has already hinted at her choice. Also, relationships in general are going to be quite difficult if one party is religious (more than loosely) and the other party is not (and not willing to convert properly, I'm not saying a situation where her family is whatever and you are converting for show/her parents etc).
Edit: This is also coming from someone who has a decent amount of experience in this, I know a lot of people, especially the internet crowd don't look favourable at religion at all or will treat it with one liners etc.
Well at first I thought it would be really casual. But honestly weve both grown on each other A LOT. I mean we can both see each other together in years to come, weve talked about it together, and well. She put me infront of her parents numerous times, several times knowing she would get into serious shit, and she did, just to be with me, same goes for me.
As for sexual stuff, we pretty much did everything besides the real deal itself. She told me 22 is the age like after we were dating for 1 week. And well I didn´t care much to be honest. I love her for who she is, and she isn´t a slut and she respects herself. We´ve slept together in the same bed a couple times, we trust each other with everything, and well like two weeks back she told me she´s changing that age to 18. So that made me think she isn´t so super hardcore into those religious morals.
I just don´t know what to tell her, I can´t just say I don´t like you being Christian, like you said... It never interfered with us before, and now it is so itś strange to me.
I read the thing about christian camp, and I started typing out right there "she's crazy, leave her." As my mouse hung over the post button I thought better of it, scrolled back up and continued reading.
Less than four lines later, I realized that my initial response was actually perfect. So here it is.
EPT
