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Active: 779 users

Pro-China, Anti-Japan Protests

Forum Index > General Forum
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Shady Sands
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4021 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-23 06:12:50
September 15 2012 20:54 GMT
#1
+ Show Spoiler [My thoughts on the protests] +
The preoccupation with attempts to prove the insincerity of the anti-Japanese demonstrations by demonstrating their government links is, I believe, a dangerous distraction.

Because it seems to imply that, if the demonstrations are government-organized/facilitated/supported/condoned, they can be dismissed and, if the demonstrations are removed from the equation, the PRC's strategy on the Senkakus/Diaoyu can be dismissed as a futile exercise in Astroturfing (simulation of a grass-roots movement).

This, I think, draws from the preconception that impassioned popular demonstrations against authoritarian regimes in the Middle East, in Russia, and in China are the only ones that matter, and if they advance the agenda of authoritarian actors, they can be ignored.

However, the regime's intention is not to try to manufacture a false Chinese simulacrum of Tahrir Square.

I believe the CCP is sending a series of messages to Japan and the United States via these demonstrations, and to send the message it is important that everybody is aware that they actually were state-managed.

First, the CCP is determined not to back down in the Senkaku/Diaoyu conflict. Although Japanese Prime Minister Noda stepped in to purchase the islands as a conciliatory measure in order to short circuit a carnival of provocation planned by Shintaro Ishihara, the governor of Tokyo, the CCP whipped up anti-Japanese sentiment and demonstrations on the announcement of the purchase regardless, in order to demonstrate its deterrent capabilities in economic and diplomatic warfare or, in old-fashioned terms, fire a shot across Japan's bow.

Second, China does not intend to provoke a military confrontation at the islands that would viscerally alarm Japan's populace and elite, and allow Japan to deploy its unanswerable geostrategic advantage: the military alliance with the United States. China's provocative movements in the waters around the islands are carried out by maritime surveillance vessels and fishing boats, not the navy.

Instead, Japan will be confronted at its most vulnerable point: the economic interests of its corporations and the well-being of its citizens inside China.

Third, the CCP is conveying that it can manage the unrest that goes hand-in-hand with a mass campaign, and will be prepared to escalate the damage it inflicts on Japanese businesses in China as needed despite the losses suffered by the Chinese economy and Chinese employment.

Finally, the ultimate purpose of the furor over the Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands is to demonstrate that Japan must rely on accommodation with China, as well as its alliance with the United States, to achieve peace and prosperity.

With this background, US Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta's recent remarks in Japan can be taken as an acknowledgement - at least for now - of the limits of American power and the challenges facing the pivot into Asia:
The United States, in all cases of disputed territory involving Pacific waters, urges "calm and restraint on all sides," the secretary said.

"United States policy with regards to these islands is well known, and obviously, we stand by our treaty obligations," Panetta said. "But the United States, as a matter of policy, does not take a position with regards to competing sovereignty claims."

In other words, the threshold for active and open US involvement in the controversy is a military clash over the islands between Japan and China. Short of that ...

Panetta's remarks are not a matter of throwing Japan under the bus, but they do reflect the reality that there are limits to what the United States can, will, and wishes to do about the Diaoyu/Senkaku islands. And they reinforce the signals sent by the Chinese demonstrations.

It looks like the Japanese government - at least the current, relatively cautious and non-confrontational government, which may not be in power very much longer - got the message:
"We do not want anything that would affect the general bilateral relations between Japan and China," Chief Cabinet Secretary Osamu Fujimura said at a press conference Tuesday. He emphasized that the government has paid special consideration to China, in putting three of the five islets under state control.

The government will not construct any port facilities as shelters for fishing boats or improve the lighthouse, but keep the three islets as they are, at least for the time being.

It would appear that, at least for the time being, China has come up with a diplomatically and economically costly but effective pushback to the cycle of provocation that was driving the Senkaku/Diaoyu confrontation. If and when the Noda government falls and is replaced by a new hardline Japanese government with a mandate for confrontation with China, the US will be trying to hold it back, not egg it on.

The anti-Japanese formula may also be applied to dealings with Vietnam and the Philippines over the South China Sea disputes.

In other words, China's anti-Japanese demonstrations are not a pathetic charade. They are dead serious - and successful.
TLDR: China did the protests so that it could show it had leverage over Japan that was non-military (the safety of Japanese investments/trade with China and the physical safety of 125,000 Japanese citizens in China) and that the United States could not affect or stop, weakening the US's credibility as a guarantor of Japanese security and forcing Japan to always consider China's interests when making any further moves in East Asia.




Update #8:
Chinese government officially calling for negotiations

Japanese netizens stage counterprotest at Chinese Embassy in Tokyo

Friend who was pranked is ok, according to other friend

He got roughed up a little and pushed down a flight of stairs, but other than that he's fine




Update #7: Koreans side with Chinese on Diaoyu Islands issue

[image loading]
Thousands of fishing boats are leaving Chinese harbors to converge on and occupy the waters around the Diaoyu Islands. They will be backed by several helicopter patrol ships of the Chinese coast guard.




Update #6: One expat friend in Beijing just told me about a prank he played on his fellow English teacher/tutor:

--So he got really drunk, and we ended up tying a Japanese headband on him
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

--And dressing him in a white T-shirt that read
--"天皇陛下萬歲" (Tenno Heika Banzai, or ten thousand years to the Japanese Emperor) with a huge Japanese flag on the front of the shirt
--Then we turned him loose in the late night drunken crowds up by Sanlitun, near the Japanese Embassy
--He didn't show up for work today




Update #5: Protests continuing; now images have made front page of reddit lol.

[image loading]
Some employees at an Audi dealership hold up a banner that reads "Even if China is full of graves, we need to kill every last Japanese; even if China is turned into a wasteland, it will not stop us from reclaiming the Diaoyu Islands"


Sora Aoi tries and fails to make a dent in the anti-Japan steamroller: http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/09/japanese-porn-star-tries-fails-to-repair-japanese-chinese-tensions/262415/



Update #4: The phrase "Anti-Japan protests" has been blocked on Sina Weibo (China's version of Twitter)

Some Japanese citizens have reported assaults while in Shanghai

+ Show Spoiler [Wuhan] +
[image loading]


+ Show Spoiler [Protesters vs Police] +
[image loading]




Update #3: Newly appointed Japanese ambassador to China dies of illness

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/16/japan-china-envoy-idUSL3E8KG07F20120916

Police in Shenzhen are using tear gas and water cannons to disperse crowds of "thousands"

Arson confirmed at Panasonic factory and Toyota dealership in Qingdao

Losses nationwide estimated at 2.95B RMB (approx 400M USD)

+ Show Spoiler [Shanghai] +
[image loading]




Update #2: Banners being put up at numerous shopping centers and retail establishments saying "no Japanese or dogs allowed"

University PA systems broadcasting anti-Japanese messages across campus every morning as part of daily announcements

13 Japanese-run/owned factories across China have reported break-ins, large amounts of inventory theft and some sabotage to assembly lines

+ Show Spoiler [Videos] +


Protesters overturning and smashing Japanese cars


Protesters storming into Heiwado, a Japanese department store


Six Chinese patrol vessels enter coastal waters of Diaoyu Islands/Senkakus



Update: From friend at inland Chinese university: "mechanical engineering department just sent out a mass text message urging everyone to enter the advanced materials courses for the next year, to 'learn how to protect Chinese honor by building weapons to exterminate the Japanese.'"

From friend in Dalian: "Local businesses giving away buckets of red paint and eggs to toss at Japanese consulate; one real estate developer is offering 10,000 RMB to anyone who hits a Japanese diplomatic staff member with an egg"



Before you read further, here is some perspective from Kwark:

On September 16 2012 06:21 KwarK wrote:
To be honest learning about Japanese conduct in world war two and the lack of a national self examining in the wake of the second world war kind of justifies anti-Japanese feelings. Imperial Japan was a diseased nation, akin to 1930s Germany, the difference is that Germany has swallowed its pride and learned to accept and learn from its past whereas Japan preferred self pity and denial.

I don't require the Japanese descendants of the war criminals to atone any more than I would ask the German descendants of Nazis to atone. However accepting their shameful history and showing an awareness of the suffering their ancestors caused would help ease the tensions. Only a month ago two Japanese ministers visited a shrine honouring fourteen Class A war criminals.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-08-15/shrine/4200304

Violent protests are always wrong but anti-Japanese sentiment is not without its justifications.




Apparently there are quite a few protests happening in China against Japan right now. These protests have spread across numerous Chinese cities in recent days, with minimal police interference.

+ Show Spoiler [Beijing, Shanghai, and 10+ other cities] +
[image loading]


The protests, like most that get out of hand, result in property damage--especially against visible symbols of Japan, like their cars and Japanese restaurants in China.

[image loading]
[image loading]
A Japanese-brand police car overturned and smashed by protesters with a metal rod during an anti-Japan protest in Shenzhen, Guangdong province, August 19, 2012.


So what to do if you have a Japanese car or own a Japanese-themed business? Here is a montage of how Chinese citizens are protecting their property during these turbulent times:

[image loading]
“The Car Is A Japanese Car; The Heart Is A Chinese Heart”,“Diaoyu Islands Belong to China Only
Sora Aoi (the most popular Japanese porn star in China) belongs to the world.”

[image loading]
“Boycott Japanese Products”, “Paralyze Japanese Economy” , “I Bought the Car First, Before Japan Got Bitchy. From Now On, Boycott Japanese Goods”
[image loading]
Japanese Yakitori restaurant removing the characters for "Japan" from its sign.
[image loading]
We are a Hong Kong-funded business


Read more here:

http://www.ministryoftofu.com/2012/09/chinese-businesses-car-owners-play-nationalist-card-to-appeal-to-japan-haters-and-avoid-violence/
Что?
EtherealDeath
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States8366 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-15 20:58:21
September 15 2012 20:56 GMT
#2
Uhhh is that overturned police car photoshopped or why is it so fucking big compared to the person smashing it.

edit - Cause that's a CRV, and I may be just 5'6", but I sure as hell am nowhere near that size compared to the CRV... so that guy would have to be astonishingly small, though facial features when zoomed in almost suggest a kid. But still looks fucking weird.
Nanikure
Profile Joined August 2010
United States53 Posts
September 15 2012 20:57 GMT
#3
This nationalism shit is honestly getting on my fucking nerves.
"I hate everyone and everything seems stupid to me."
Grettin
Profile Joined April 2010
42381 Posts
September 15 2012 20:58 GMT
#4
Ah, this is what my Korean friend was telling me about. I assume this is about the islands?
"If I had force-fields in Brood War, I'd never lose." -Bisu
Roe
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada6002 Posts
September 15 2012 20:58 GMT
#5
Was there some kind of catalyst for this? I know China and Japan have a long history, but this seems kind of random.
Maxie
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden2653 Posts
September 15 2012 20:59 GMT
#6
Yeah, what made this happen?
Nanikure
Profile Joined August 2010
United States53 Posts
September 15 2012 20:59 GMT
#7
On September 16 2012 05:58 Roe wrote:
Was there some kind of catalyst for this? I know China and Japan have a long history, but this seems kind of random.


Japan just purchased the Senkaku islands from it's previous Japanese owner. However, China claims the islands belong to them. I think Taiwan does as well.
"I hate everyone and everything seems stupid to me."
SHOOG
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States1639 Posts
September 15 2012 21:00 GMT
#8
On September 16 2012 05:56 EtherealDeath wrote:
Uhhh is that overturned police car photoshopped or why is it so fucking big compared to the person smashing it.


I'm pretty sure it's just the angle of the photo.

But this is getting pretty bad.
It seems like there is so much more negativity in that part of the world right now.
It sucks seeing all these protests and violence occur.
sharkie
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Austria18407 Posts
September 15 2012 21:00 GMT
#9
what will the Chinese do if someone tells them pretty much all their technological know-how is based on Japanese technology lol?

Destroy everything?
SneakyAZN
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States200 Posts
September 15 2012 21:01 GMT
#10
On September 16 2012 05:59 Nanikure wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2012 05:58 Roe wrote:
Was there some kind of catalyst for this? I know China and Japan have a long history, but this seems kind of random.


Japan just purchased the Senkaku islands from it's previous Japanese owner. However, China claims the islands belong to them. I think Taiwan does as well.


Basically, the whole islands being purchased, and the dispute on who really owns them in the first palce

source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19540469
starfries
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada3508 Posts
September 15 2012 21:02 GMT
#11
I wonder how much government involvement there is... maybe some of these riots were incited deliberately?
DJ – do you like ramen, Savior? Savior – not really. Bisu – I eat it often. Flash – I’m a maniac! | Foxer Fighting!
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
September 15 2012 21:03 GMT
#12
Stuff like this makes me so negative regarding the future of our species.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
WTFZerg
Profile Joined February 2011
United States704 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-15 21:11:22
September 15 2012 21:04 GMT
#13
On September 16 2012 06:01 SneakyAZN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2012 05:59 Nanikure wrote:
On September 16 2012 05:58 Roe wrote:
Was there some kind of catalyst for this? I know China and Japan have a long history, but this seems kind of random.


Japan just purchased the Senkaku islands from it's previous Japanese owner. However, China claims the islands belong to them. I think Taiwan does as well.


Basically, the whole islands being purchased, and the dispute on who really owns them in the first palce

source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19540469


Weren't those islands taken by Japan in WW2?

edit: apparently they were claimed by Japan in the first Sino-Japanese war and then were handed over to the US as part of the San Francisco treaty, and then given back to Japan in 1971.

Might makes right.
sekritzzz
Profile Joined December 2010
1515 Posts
September 15 2012 21:04 GMT
#14
On September 16 2012 05:58 Roe wrote:
Was there some kind of catalyst for this? I know China and Japan have a long history, but this seems kind of random.

Its been going on for a while, theres multiple disputes going on and multiple is an understatement. OP add this to your post if you'd like. Its a good summary, especially the picture at the 1:47 minute mark.

AgniKai
Profile Joined August 2012
70 Posts
September 15 2012 21:05 GMT
#15
This is how it's always been. Nationalism always leads to this kind of stupidity.
"The reactions were never really positive no matter what our team did, and it was just a little discouraging." IM_Seed at TAC3, IM vs TL
Fantaisie
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden6 Posts
September 15 2012 21:08 GMT
#16
So much hatred. I don't understand this.
TehPrime
Profile Joined February 2012
United States180 Posts
September 15 2012 21:10 GMT
#17
On September 16 2012 06:08 Fantaisie wrote:
So much hatred. I don't understand this.

Considering fact that you probably don't understand the history between these two countries, you wouldn't understand the hatred between China and japan.
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
September 15 2012 21:10 GMT
#18
I find this piece of event to be quite humorous.
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
PardonYou
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1360 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-15 21:13:38
September 15 2012 21:11 GMT
#19
I am not understanding all of this rioting--not protests, this is all bad. Did everyone decide to take riot pills lately. Protest is fine, but all of this world's old grudges are coming out lately.

On September 16 2012 06:03 Holgerius wrote:
Stuff like this makes me so negative regarding the future of our species.


Same thoughts here. Humans are apocalyptic; makes me rethink the importance of what we hold on to, whether physical or in our minds.
AngryMag
Profile Joined November 2011
Germany1040 Posts
September 15 2012 21:11 GMT
#20
On September 16 2012 06:08 Fantaisie wrote:
So much hatred. I don't understand this.


anti japanese sentiment in today's China largely stems from the second japanese chinese war in the 30's and 40's in the last century
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