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On September 16 2012 07:17 CeriseCherries wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 07:09 magicmUnky wrote:As someone who's studied Japanese history, both by itself and related to other topics, I can say that most of what people are saying in this thread as "what happened" is absolutely garbage.  oh shit. japan never invaded and occupied china. the cake is a lie. Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 07:09 magicmUnky wrote:
Yes, the Japanese inflicted war crimes against the Chinese, but there are so many important circumstances left out that it makes no sense. No, it was not a holocaust denied. The denial of those crimes are not widespread but instead belong to a vocal minority. The problem in Japan is that the topic itself, while well understood, is taboo and thus out of the public consciousness.
Ah, how could i forget the important context that goes into raping children as young as 7 and as old as 70. Silly actually. Taboo + out of public consciousness = denial. No one wants to be sorry about it and no one is regretful. Its like saying I shot your grandpa (which literally happened to many chinese) but I never actually even apologized and the only atonement for the crime is that the big guy i also socked in the face beat me up. instead 70 years later i ignore the fact that your grandpa is dead instead of apologizing. Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 07:09 magicmUnky wrote:
Regardless, not surprised to see mindless violence from the Chinese... destroying Chinese owned but Japanese made cars... maybe they should first get over their schizophrenic relationship with "the west" before they decide to rip themselves apart. this sounds kind of racist, im not going to lie. thats the equivalent of saying im not surprised that blacks are violent... you realize that even canada riots...
This is something I can't figure out either. People are not surprised that in Canada they smashed their own shops because of a hockey game... but when Chinese smash some of their own stuff because of a decades long hatred, it's "ridiculous" and "stupid".
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Hey hey.
Hockey is like a religion to us. Peace and respect is how we deal with international policy yo
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Britain should have just given the Chinese victims in WW2 some land in the Middle East. This method has been proven to resolve all the conflicts
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On September 16 2012 07:20 coverpunch wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 07:08 Feartheguru wrote:On September 16 2012 07:04 sharkie wrote:On September 16 2012 07:00 Feartheguru wrote:On September 16 2012 06:57 Silencioseu wrote:
Can someone explain me why EXACTLY do they protest against Japan? Because Japan invaded China and killed/raped indiscriminately for 20 years? So we dwell on the past and dont move on? Japan got 2 nukes, lost tons of territory. Keeps getting insulted by Korean/Chinese politicians. They get threatened by military powers and are unable to fight back because they dont have a military itself anymore. Dont you think its TIME TO MOVE ON? Oh no they're getting insulted by politicians, what a pain those Japanese have to suffer through. Japan hasn't even apologized for it and China officially has moved on, it just wants its islands back ( which the Japanese took, the USA got control over and then gave to Japan for cold war political purposes), how does asking for its islands back have anything to do with MOVING ON? So if China took Hawaii while it's strong and held in for 50 years. You would just tell your mad friends to MOVE ON? Um, no. Japan has apologized extensively for its crimes. Whether it has shown sensitivity and respect for its past crimes is a different issue from official apologies. Looking at the scale of the protests and what Chinese politicians are saying about it, it is China that has not moved on. And let's not bullshit about this. This has nothing to do with history or tradition or honor. It has everything to do with the fact that there might be oil in the maritime territory around the island.
You know only the party that in on the receiving end "moves on" right? Like if I punched you in the face there's nothing for me to "move on" about, so I have no idea what you're trying to say.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
On September 16 2012 07:15 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 07:07 sharkie wrote:On September 16 2012 07:06 RavenLoud wrote:On September 16 2012 06:50 Kurumi wrote:On September 16 2012 06:41 RavenLoud wrote:
Funny thing is, if the US handed these islands to Taiwan instead of Japan back then we wouldn't have this problem.
Why? Does China not recognize Taiwan as an independent country? Doesn't Taiwan call itself the "real" Republic of China? It is easy to claim something, I'd like to hear some arguments to back it up. A quick search on the wiki says there's oil near those islands. Well, I guess this explains why Japan is reluctant to give control of it. Please correct me if I am wrong obviously. Read my previous post. China-Taiwan is an issue of civil war, but deep down it's much more friendly, and both parties knows that they will re-unify SOME day. It's not nearly on the same scale of antigonization as Japan. Taiwans "know" that they will re-unify with China? Taiwanese dislike, borderline hate mainland china Taiwan is more Japanese than Chinese (mentality wise). Ummm. You have 0 understanding on these Asian countries. Taiwan is the side that lost the civil war and fled to the island to setup a government in exile in the hope that in the future they can take back the whole country. There's obviously animosity (like north v south after the American civil war) but in the end they know they are the same people. What you just said is akin to something like Austria is more Nigerian than German, it just doesn't make sense.
You also lack understanding of Taiwan I guess...most of us consider us part of the chinese culture but no fucking way that we unify with the Mainland in the near future. Also the missiles aimed at us across the straight are clearly showing that we are "one" poeple....
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On September 16 2012 07:20 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 07:17 CeriseCherries wrote:On September 16 2012 07:09 magicmUnky wrote:As someone who's studied Japanese history, both by itself and related to other topics, I can say that most of what people are saying in this thread as "what happened" is absolutely garbage. oh shit. japan never invaded and occupied china. the cake is a lie. On September 16 2012 07:09 magicmUnky wrote:
Yes, the Japanese inflicted war crimes against the Chinese, but there are so many important circumstances left out that it makes no sense. No, it was not a holocaust denied. The denial of those crimes are not widespread but instead belong to a vocal minority. The problem in Japan is that the topic itself, while well understood, is taboo and thus out of the public consciousness.
Ah, how could i forget the important context that goes into raping children as young as 7 and as old as 70. Silly actually. Taboo + out of public consciousness = denial. No one wants to be sorry about it and no one is regretful. Its like saying I shot your grandpa (which literally happened to many chinese) but I never actually even apologized and the only atonement for the crime is that the big guy i also socked in the face beat me up. instead 70 years later i ignore the fact that your grandpa is dead instead of apologizing. On September 16 2012 07:09 magicmUnky wrote:
Regardless, not surprised to see mindless violence from the Chinese... destroying Chinese owned but Japanese made cars... maybe they should first get over their schizophrenic relationship with "the west" before they decide to rip themselves apart. this sounds kind of racist, im not going to lie. thats the equivalent of saying im not surprised that blacks are violent... you realize that even canada riots... This is something I can't figure out either. People are not surprised that in Canada they smashed their own shops because of a hockey game... but when Chinese smash some of their own stuff because of a decades long hatred, it's "ridiculous" and "stupid".
To be fair, the people who smashed stuff in canada were mainly vandals and sheep who followed them around.
Edit: to be more specific, they weren't vandalizing stuff because of hockey, they wanted to cause stuff for no real reason. I don't believe most hockey fans went to the game with baseball bats, masks and other gear to vandalize stuff if they lost.
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On September 16 2012 07:22 WirelessWaffle wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 07:20 Feartheguru wrote:On September 16 2012 07:17 CeriseCherries wrote:On September 16 2012 07:09 magicmUnky wrote:As someone who's studied Japanese history, both by itself and related to other topics, I can say that most of what people are saying in this thread as "what happened" is absolutely garbage. oh shit. japan never invaded and occupied china. the cake is a lie. On September 16 2012 07:09 magicmUnky wrote:
Yes, the Japanese inflicted war crimes against the Chinese, but there are so many important circumstances left out that it makes no sense. No, it was not a holocaust denied. The denial of those crimes are not widespread but instead belong to a vocal minority. The problem in Japan is that the topic itself, while well understood, is taboo and thus out of the public consciousness.
Ah, how could i forget the important context that goes into raping children as young as 7 and as old as 70. Silly actually. Taboo + out of public consciousness = denial. No one wants to be sorry about it and no one is regretful. Its like saying I shot your grandpa (which literally happened to many chinese) but I never actually even apologized and the only atonement for the crime is that the big guy i also socked in the face beat me up. instead 70 years later i ignore the fact that your grandpa is dead instead of apologizing. On September 16 2012 07:09 magicmUnky wrote:
Regardless, not surprised to see mindless violence from the Chinese... destroying Chinese owned but Japanese made cars... maybe they should first get over their schizophrenic relationship with "the west" before they decide to rip themselves apart. this sounds kind of racist, im not going to lie. thats the equivalent of saying im not surprised that blacks are violent... you realize that even canada riots... This is something I can't figure out either. People are not surprised that in Canada they smashed their own shops because of a hockey game... but when Chinese smash some of their own stuff because of a decades long hatred, it's "ridiculous" and "stupid". To be fair, the people who smashed stuff in canada were mainly vandals and sheep who followed them around.
Who do you think smashed stuff in China? The vandals and sheep who followed them around.
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On September 16 2012 07:17 CeriseCherries wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 07:09 magicmUnky wrote:As someone who's studied Japanese history, both by itself and related to other topics, I can say that most of what people are saying in this thread as "what happened" is absolutely garbage. oh shit. japan never invaded and occupied china. the cake is a lie.
Don't bother quoting if you're going to selectively ignore parts of the post. Clearly you've misunderstood.
Any Japanese person who is not a nationalist (small proportion of population) will clearly understand that the massacres took place and they know that crimes have been committed. They will deny nothing. If you take that into a public domain and try to say the same thing you'll get lots of ambiguity. That's not because they deny it but because Japanese culture does not tolerate open discussion of dishonorable acts.
You CANNOT simplify the relationship between Japan and China, nor the events, down to one-liners. It just makes zero sense in this case. Not because the events weren't simple but because the thinking behind them was so radically distant from your perspective.
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On September 16 2012 07:22 ShiaoPi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 07:15 Feartheguru wrote:On September 16 2012 07:07 sharkie wrote:On September 16 2012 07:06 RavenLoud wrote:On September 16 2012 06:50 Kurumi wrote:On September 16 2012 06:41 RavenLoud wrote:
Funny thing is, if the US handed these islands to Taiwan instead of Japan back then we wouldn't have this problem.
Why? Does China not recognize Taiwan as an independent country? Doesn't Taiwan call itself the "real" Republic of China? It is easy to claim something, I'd like to hear some arguments to back it up. A quick search on the wiki says there's oil near those islands. Well, I guess this explains why Japan is reluctant to give control of it. Please correct me if I am wrong obviously. Read my previous post. China-Taiwan is an issue of civil war, but deep down it's much more friendly, and both parties knows that they will re-unify SOME day. It's not nearly on the same scale of antigonization as Japan. Taiwans "know" that they will re-unify with China? Taiwanese dislike, borderline hate mainland china Taiwan is more Japanese than Chinese (mentality wise). Ummm. You have 0 understanding on these Asian countries. Taiwan is the side that lost the civil war and fled to the island to setup a government in exile in the hope that in the future they can take back the whole country. There's obviously animosity (like north v south after the American civil war) but in the end they know they are the same people. What you just said is akin to something like Austria is more Nigerian than German, it just doesn't make sense. You also lack understanding of Taiwan I guess...most of us consider us part of the chinese culture but no fucking way that we unify with the Mainland in the near future. Also the missiles aimed at us across the straight are clearly showing that we are "one" poeple....
Our statements are not even mutually exclusive, we both said they consider themselves to be of the same culture, I never said anything about Taiwan wanting to unify any time soon.
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On September 16 2012 07:22 ShiaoPi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 07:15 Feartheguru wrote:On September 16 2012 07:07 sharkie wrote:On September 16 2012 07:06 RavenLoud wrote:On September 16 2012 06:50 Kurumi wrote:On September 16 2012 06:41 RavenLoud wrote:
Funny thing is, if the US handed these islands to Taiwan instead of Japan back then we wouldn't have this problem.
Why? Does China not recognize Taiwan as an independent country? Doesn't Taiwan call itself the "real" Republic of China? It is easy to claim something, I'd like to hear some arguments to back it up. A quick search on the wiki says there's oil near those islands. Well, I guess this explains why Japan is reluctant to give control of it. Please correct me if I am wrong obviously. Read my previous post. China-Taiwan is an issue of civil war, but deep down it's much more friendly, and both parties knows that they will re-unify SOME day. It's not nearly on the same scale of antigonization as Japan. Taiwans "know" that they will re-unify with China? Taiwanese dislike, borderline hate mainland china Taiwan is more Japanese than Chinese (mentality wise). Ummm. You have 0 understanding on these Asian countries. Taiwan is the side that lost the civil war and fled to the island to setup a government in exile in the hope that in the future they can take back the whole country. There's obviously animosity (like north v south after the American civil war) but in the end they know they are the same people. What you just said is akin to something like Austria is more Nigerian than German, it just doesn't make sense. You also lack understanding of Taiwan I guess...most of us consider us part of the chinese culture but no fucking way that we unify with the Mainland in the near future. Also the missiles aimed at us across the straight are clearly showing that we are "one" poeple....
The unification position may only be a front but keep in mind he was responding to someone who likely does not even know that the Koumintang is the Chinese nationalist party!
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On September 16 2012 07:07 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 07:06 RavenLoud wrote:On September 16 2012 06:50 Kurumi wrote:On September 16 2012 06:41 RavenLoud wrote:
Funny thing is, if the US handed these islands to Taiwan instead of Japan back then we wouldn't have this problem.
Why? Does China not recognize Taiwan as an independent country? Doesn't Taiwan call itself the "real" Republic of China? It is easy to claim something, I'd like to hear some arguments to back it up. A quick search on the wiki says there's oil near those islands. Well, I guess this explains why Japan is reluctant to give control of it. Please correct me if I am wrong obviously. Read my previous post. China-Taiwan is an issue of civil war, but deep down it's much more friendly, and both parties knows that they will re-unify SOME day. It's not nearly on the same scale of antigonization as Japan. Taiwans "know" that they will re-unify with China? Taiwanese dislike, borderline hate mainland china Taiwan is more Japanese than Chinese (mentality wise).
This is rubbish, I'll warrant you don't know many Chinese/Taiwanese.
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RE: China-Japan. Remember the resentment that goes back to the Eight Power Alliance (Europeans + Japanese invading China to "punish" them, occupying Beijing, punitive expeditions into the countryside. Go read it.) and the Opium Wars.
Chinese are incredibly distrustful of foreigners, and really aren't keen on SE Asian countries either. Japanese invasion of Manchuria, Rape of Nanking etc...
China could be pushing its claims in South China sea much more proactively, I'd say they have been much more benign recently than the more numerous belligerent powers.
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On September 16 2012 07:25 magicmUnky wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 07:17 CeriseCherries wrote:On September 16 2012 07:09 magicmUnky wrote:As someone who's studied Japanese history, both by itself and related to other topics, I can say that most of what people are saying in this thread as "what happened" is absolutely garbage. oh shit. japan never invaded and occupied china. the cake is a lie. Don't bother quoting if you're going to selectively ignore parts of the post. Clearly you've misunderstood. Any Japanese person who is not a nationalist (small proportion of population) will clearly understand that the massacres took place and they know that crimes have been committed. They will deny nothing. If you take that into a public domain and try to say the same thing you'll get lots of ambiguity. That's not because they deny it but because Japanese culture does not tolerate open discussion of dishonorable acts. You CANNOT simplify the relationship between Japan and China, nor the events, down to one-liners. It just makes zero sense in this case. Not because the events weren't simple but because the thinking behind them was so radically distant from your perspective.
And you don't understand that the bitterness is towards the Japanese nation as opposed to Japanese people.
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On September 16 2012 07:22 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 07:20 coverpunch wrote:On September 16 2012 07:08 Feartheguru wrote:On September 16 2012 07:04 sharkie wrote:On September 16 2012 07:00 Feartheguru wrote:On September 16 2012 06:57 Silencioseu wrote:
Can someone explain me why EXACTLY do they protest against Japan? Because Japan invaded China and killed/raped indiscriminately for 20 years? So we dwell on the past and dont move on? Japan got 2 nukes, lost tons of territory. Keeps getting insulted by Korean/Chinese politicians. They get threatened by military powers and are unable to fight back because they dont have a military itself anymore. Dont you think its TIME TO MOVE ON? Oh no they're getting insulted by politicians, what a pain those Japanese have to suffer through. Japan hasn't even apologized for it and China officially has moved on, it just wants its islands back ( which the Japanese took, the USA got control over and then gave to Japan for cold war political purposes), how does asking for its islands back have anything to do with MOVING ON? So if China took Hawaii while it's strong and held in for 50 years. You would just tell your mad friends to MOVE ON? Um, no. Japan has apologized extensively for its crimes. Whether it has shown sensitivity and respect for its past crimes is a different issue from official apologies. Looking at the scale of the protests and what Chinese politicians are saying about it, it is China that has not moved on. And let's not bullshit about this. This has nothing to do with history or tradition or honor. It has everything to do with the fact that there might be oil in the maritime territory around the island. You know only the party that in on the receiving end "moves on" right? Like if I punched you in the face there's nothing for me to "move on" about, so I have no idea what you're trying to say.
you move in the way of you forget this has happened
Not stopping mentioning war crimes and whining about stuff is not moving on.
How many times have you tried to use the war crimes to justify China's actions towards Japan?
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On September 16 2012 07:10 AngryMag wrote:
Something general:
No I do not support Japan denying their war crimes, nor do I support these "protesters".
But in general, most countries deny their war crimes, so they can still play the patriotism card back at home. Being part of war crimes makes it hard for politicians at home to get the people to waving flags and waving flags helps to deflect from innerpolitical problems.
So let us not just pick Japan out and put the finger on them, rather do some self reflection.
You are acting as if they just blew up a dam or bombed a civilian factory. They held contests to kill more people. They raped indiscriminately. And you know what the worst part is? The didn't even punish Prince Asaka.
Here is a vomit inducing quote from wikipedia
On December 13, about 30 soldiers came to a Chinese house at #5 Hsing Lu Koo in the southeastern part of Nanking, and demanded entrance. The door was open by the landlord, a Mohammedan named Ha. They killed him immediately with a revolver and also Mrs. Ha, who knelt before them after Ha's death, begging them not to kill anyone else. Mrs. Ha asked them why they killed her husband and they shot her. Mrs. Hsia was dragged out from under a table in the guest hall where she had tried to hide with her 1 year old baby. After being stripped and raped by one or more men, she was bayoneted in the chest, and then had a bottle thrust into her vagina. The baby was killed with a bayonet. Some soldiers then went to the next room, where Mrs. Hsia's parents, aged 76 and 74, and her two daughters aged 16 and 14. They were about to rape the girls when the grandmother tried to protect them. The soldiers killed her with a revolver. The grandfather grasped the body of his wife and was killed. The two girls were then stripped, the elder being raped by 2–3 men, and the younger by 3. The older girl was stabbed afterwards and a cane was rammed in her vagina. The younger girl was bayoneted also but was spared the horrible treatment that had been meted out to her sister and mother. The soldiers then bayoneted another sister of between 7–8, who was also in the room. The last murders in the house were of Ha's two children, aged 4 and 2 respectively. The older was bayoneted and the younger split down through the head with a sword.[56]
Honestly, Japan suffered a lot due to ww2, and it is the only country to feel the terror of nuclear weapons. But they have never made any significant amends to the atrocities. China lost between 2 and 3.5% of its total population at that time due to the war. Wikipedia says between 10-20 million people dead due to military activity and crimes against humanity.
10-20 MILLION!
And thats a low ball estimate. Some histories put it at 23 million ethnic chinese, and a total of 30 million civilians.
So while the current japanese populace is in no way responsible for the crimes of the past, the failure to accept responsibility by the government is a black mark on japan. And then to claim an island that was taken during that conflict? Thats salt on the wounds.
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Uh, this is so stupid, whoever is pulling this off for their political agenda needs to be thrown to jail.
Oh wait it's China.
wtf
If we were pissed at everyone who is somehow related to some people who did atrocities in a time when atrocities were done by each side of the conflict, Europe would look a whole lot different than it does today.
Yeah Nanking was bad, so was Dresden and a whole bunch of other similar stories, it's human nature to destroy for no reason.
So what are the japanese supposed to say: "sorry we have the exact same traits as all the other people on earth?"
Now if there are people glorifying war criminals to drive their own weird agendas I kinda get these protests, if only they were pissed at the right people and not a whole country and it's people. Especially as the country has very little to do with the one it was 70 years before.
And what is an apology going to change exactly? What could make it worth for these people to go to the streets?
They have 0 reason to do any of this. This species confuses me so much sometimes.
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On September 16 2012 07:25 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 07:22 ShiaoPi wrote:On September 16 2012 07:15 Feartheguru wrote:On September 16 2012 07:07 sharkie wrote:On September 16 2012 07:06 RavenLoud wrote:On September 16 2012 06:50 Kurumi wrote:On September 16 2012 06:41 RavenLoud wrote:
Funny thing is, if the US handed these islands to Taiwan instead of Japan back then we wouldn't have this problem.
Why? Does China not recognize Taiwan as an independent country? Doesn't Taiwan call itself the "real" Republic of China? It is easy to claim something, I'd like to hear some arguments to back it up. A quick search on the wiki says there's oil near those islands. Well, I guess this explains why Japan is reluctant to give control of it. Please correct me if I am wrong obviously. Read my previous post. China-Taiwan is an issue of civil war, but deep down it's much more friendly, and both parties knows that they will re-unify SOME day. It's not nearly on the same scale of antigonization as Japan. Taiwans "know" that they will re-unify with China? Taiwanese dislike, borderline hate mainland china Taiwan is more Japanese than Chinese (mentality wise). Ummm. You have 0 understanding on these Asian countries. Taiwan is the side that lost the civil war and fled to the island to setup a government in exile in the hope that in the future they can take back the whole country. There's obviously animosity (like north v south after the American civil war) but in the end they know they are the same people. What you just said is akin to something like Austria is more Nigerian than German, it just doesn't make sense. You also lack understanding of Taiwan I guess...most of us consider us part of the chinese culture but no fucking way that we unify with the Mainland in the near future. Also the missiles aimed at us across the straight are clearly showing that we are "one" poeple.... Our statements are not even mutually exclusive, we both said they consider themselves to be of the same culture, I never said anything about Taiwan wanting to unify any time soon.
Someone before you said that in the same "quote-thread", though. He probably mistook that post to be from you.
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On September 16 2012 07:24 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 07:22 WirelessWaffle wrote:On September 16 2012 07:20 Feartheguru wrote:On September 16 2012 07:17 CeriseCherries wrote:On September 16 2012 07:09 magicmUnky wrote:As someone who's studied Japanese history, both by itself and related to other topics, I can say that most of what people are saying in this thread as "what happened" is absolutely garbage. oh shit. japan never invaded and occupied china. the cake is a lie. On September 16 2012 07:09 magicmUnky wrote:
Yes, the Japanese inflicted war crimes against the Chinese, but there are so many important circumstances left out that it makes no sense. No, it was not a holocaust denied. The denial of those crimes are not widespread but instead belong to a vocal minority. The problem in Japan is that the topic itself, while well understood, is taboo and thus out of the public consciousness.
Ah, how could i forget the important context that goes into raping children as young as 7 and as old as 70. Silly actually. Taboo + out of public consciousness = denial. No one wants to be sorry about it and no one is regretful. Its like saying I shot your grandpa (which literally happened to many chinese) but I never actually even apologized and the only atonement for the crime is that the big guy i also socked in the face beat me up. instead 70 years later i ignore the fact that your grandpa is dead instead of apologizing. On September 16 2012 07:09 magicmUnky wrote:
Regardless, not surprised to see mindless violence from the Chinese... destroying Chinese owned but Japanese made cars... maybe they should first get over their schizophrenic relationship with "the west" before they decide to rip themselves apart. this sounds kind of racist, im not going to lie. thats the equivalent of saying im not surprised that blacks are violent... you realize that even canada riots... This is something I can't figure out either. People are not surprised that in Canada they smashed their own shops because of a hockey game... but when Chinese smash some of their own stuff because of a decades long hatred, it's "ridiculous" and "stupid". To be fair, the people who smashed stuff in canada were mainly vandals and sheep who followed them around. Who do you think smashed stuff in China? The vandals and sheep who followed them around.
From the photos it looks a lot more wide spread than a few people in masks with baseball bats with a relative hand full of people joining in.
Everyone in those photos is joining in or standing by enjoying the show.
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On September 16 2012 07:22 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 07:20 coverpunch wrote:On September 16 2012 07:08 Feartheguru wrote:On September 16 2012 07:04 sharkie wrote:On September 16 2012 07:00 Feartheguru wrote:On September 16 2012 06:57 Silencioseu wrote:
Can someone explain me why EXACTLY do they protest against Japan? Because Japan invaded China and killed/raped indiscriminately for 20 years? So we dwell on the past and dont move on? Japan got 2 nukes, lost tons of territory. Keeps getting insulted by Korean/Chinese politicians. They get threatened by military powers and are unable to fight back because they dont have a military itself anymore. Dont you think its TIME TO MOVE ON? Oh no they're getting insulted by politicians, what a pain those Japanese have to suffer through. Japan hasn't even apologized for it and China officially has moved on, it just wants its islands back ( which the Japanese took, the USA got control over and then gave to Japan for cold war political purposes), how does asking for its islands back have anything to do with MOVING ON? So if China took Hawaii while it's strong and held in for 50 years. You would just tell your mad friends to MOVE ON? Um, no. Japan has apologized extensively for its crimes. Whether it has shown sensitivity and respect for its past crimes is a different issue from official apologies. Looking at the scale of the protests and what Chinese politicians are saying about it, it is China that has not moved on. And let's not bullshit about this. This has nothing to do with history or tradition or honor. It has everything to do with the fact that there might be oil in the maritime territory around the island. You know only the party that in on the receiving end "moves on" right? Like if I punched you in the face there's nothing for me to "move on" about, so I have no idea what you're trying to say.
In the World Wars, everyone has to "move on". Japan lost everything in the war - no more empire, 3 million citizens killed, no buildings in Japan taller than two stories.
My point is that the anti-Japanese anger is blown way out of proportion. The problem is that the level of shame is not well defined and it becomes a slippery slope. Japan says "sorry", Asia says "that's not good enough, bow". Japan bows, Asia says "that's still not good enough, kiss my feet". And so on.
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On September 16 2012 07:31 coverpunch wrote:
My point is that the anti-Japanese anger is blown way out of proportion. The problem is that the level of shame is not well defined and it becomes a slippery slope. Japan says "sorry", Asia says "that's not good enough, bow". Japan bows, Asia says "that's still not good enough, kiss my feet". And so on.
Exactly that has been happening for years. Any other country in the world would have exploded already.
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On September 16 2012 07:31 coverpunch wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 07:22 Feartheguru wrote:On September 16 2012 07:20 coverpunch wrote:On September 16 2012 07:08 Feartheguru wrote:On September 16 2012 07:04 sharkie wrote:On September 16 2012 07:00 Feartheguru wrote:On September 16 2012 06:57 Silencioseu wrote:
Can someone explain me why EXACTLY do they protest against Japan? Because Japan invaded China and killed/raped indiscriminately for 20 years? So we dwell on the past and dont move on? Japan got 2 nukes, lost tons of territory. Keeps getting insulted by Korean/Chinese politicians. They get threatened by military powers and are unable to fight back because they dont have a military itself anymore. Dont you think its TIME TO MOVE ON? Oh no they're getting insulted by politicians, what a pain those Japanese have to suffer through. Japan hasn't even apologized for it and China officially has moved on, it just wants its islands back ( which the Japanese took, the USA got control over and then gave to Japan for cold war political purposes), how does asking for its islands back have anything to do with MOVING ON? So if China took Hawaii while it's strong and held in for 50 years. You would just tell your mad friends to MOVE ON? Um, no. Japan has apologized extensively for its crimes. Whether it has shown sensitivity and respect for its past crimes is a different issue from official apologies. Looking at the scale of the protests and what Chinese politicians are saying about it, it is China that has not moved on. And let's not bullshit about this. This has nothing to do with history or tradition or honor. It has everything to do with the fact that there might be oil in the maritime territory around the island. You know only the party that in on the receiving end "moves on" right? Like if I punched you in the face there's nothing for me to "move on" about, so I have no idea what you're trying to say. In the World Wars, everyone has to "move on". Japan lost everything in the war - no more empire, 3 million citizens killed, no buildings in Japan taller than two stories. My point is that the anti-Japanese anger is blown way out of proportion. The problem is that the level of shame is not well defined and it becomes a slippery slope. Japan says "sorry", Asia says "that's not good enough, bow". Japan bows, Asia says "that's still not good enough, kiss my feet". And so on.
It's abundantly clear that the CCP is and has been using this to unify the people and draw attention away from themselves.
After all the CCP my have caused more death with famine + cultural revolution than Japan.
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EPT
