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RavenLoud
Canada1100 Posts
On September 16 2012 06:53 Roe wrote: Why can't the islands just have sovereignty over themselves, if everyone claims them but clearly none has them. There's nobody on those islands IIRC. | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
On September 16 2012 06:50 Kurumi wrote: Why? Does China not recognize Taiwan as an independent country? Doesn't Taiwan call itself the "real" Republic of China? It is easy to claim something, I'd like to hear some arguments to back it up. A quick search on the wiki says there's oil near those islands. Well, I guess this explains why Japan is reluctant to give control of it. Please correct me if I am wrong obviously. I think you answered yourself. I might be wrong but his point is that because of the unique relationship between China and Taiwan (as you mentioned both are essentially "China"), that it would make minimal difference because the island will be part of Taiwan and China will just go on claiming Taiwan is part of China. wow Tibet lol... finding that between this thread and the Islam thread i may just disagree with DeepElemBlues about EVERYTHING LOL | ||
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Shiragaku
Hong Kong4308 Posts
On September 16 2012 06:57 Silencioseu wrote: Can someone explain me why EXACTLY do they protest against Japan? Haha, if you read about what the Japanese have done in the past and read what many of the mainstream nationalists are saying now, I am sure you would be disgusted. Think of it if post-war Germany denied the Holocaust in their textbooks and then proceeded to say that they liberated Europe and the mainstream politicians agree with that. I would be protesting in the streets with the Chinese even though I am Japanese if it was not so pro-Chinese government and so violent. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18629 Posts
On September 16 2012 07:00 Feartheguru wrote: Because Japan invaded China and killed/raped indiscriminately for 20 years? So we dwell on the past and dont move on? Japan got 2 nukes, lost tons of territory. Keeps getting insulted by Korean/Chinese politicians. They get threatened by military powers and are unable to fight back because they dont have a military itself anymore. Dont you think its TIME TO MOVE ON? | ||
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ANoise
United States67 Posts
On September 16 2012 06:54 zev318 wrote: i definitely didnt see shit like this in the past, not until the issues with the islands came up more recently. feel free to link large scale anti-japanese riots like there are now where store are getting smashed, people's properties are getting destoryed because of their japanese brand anywhere from last year and back. I was going to post that smartass link that shows you how to use google with a little animation, but I decided against it. Seriously, if you want to know about massive anti-japanese riots (both government-sponsored and grassroots) you can look them up yourself. There is a rich history of very poor sentiments and shameful actions for you to learn - though obviously not just on the side of the Chinese. If that is what you really want, it won't be at all difficult for you to find it. Edit: From the massive amount of confused posts in this topic, I realize that some people may want some actual history. I'll do my best to work as little as possible. 7-16 million civilian deaths caused by the Japanese invasion of china in the 1930s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfort_women http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasukuni_Shrine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negationists#Japanese_war_crimes This is an unforgivably brief description of a history that I find hard to revisit, even as a foreigner to that part of the world. | ||
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On September 16 2012 06:50 Kurumi wrote: Why? Does China not recognize Taiwan as an independent country? Doesn't Taiwan call itself the "real" Republic of China? It is easy to claim something, I'd like to hear some arguments to back it up. A quick search on the wiki says there's oil near those islands. Well, I guess this explains why Japan is reluctant to give control of it. Please correct me if I am wrong obviously. China doesn't recognize Taiwan as a independent country. So if the islands are returned to Taiwan. China considers Taiwan a part of China -> so islands are returned to China. On September 16 2012 05:58 Grettin wrote: Ah, this is what my Korean friend was telling me about. I assume this is about the islands? The koreans are saying Dokdo belongs to Korea. Different islands. But it's a Korea, China multipronged attack vs Japan. | ||
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RavenLoud
Canada1100 Posts
On September 16 2012 06:50 Kurumi wrote: Why? Does China not recognize Taiwan as an independent country? Doesn't Taiwan call itself the "real" Republic of China? It is easy to claim something, I'd like to hear some arguments to back it up. A quick search on the wiki says there's oil near those islands. Well, I guess this explains why Japan is reluctant to give control of it. Please correct me if I am wrong obviously. Read my previous post. China-Taiwan is an issue of civil war, but deep down it's much more friendly, and both parties knows that they will re-unify SOME day. It's not nearly on the same scale of antigonization as Japan. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18629 Posts
On September 16 2012 07:06 RavenLoud wrote: Read my previous post. China-Taiwan is an issue of civil war, but deep down it's much more friendly, and both parties knows that they will re-unify SOME day. It's not nearly on the same scale of antigonization as Japan. Taiwans "know" that they will re-unify with China? Taiwanese dislike, borderline hate mainland china Taiwan is more Japanese than Chinese (mentality wise). | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
On September 16 2012 07:04 sharkie wrote: So we dwell on the past and dont move on? Japan got 2 nukes, lost tons of territory. Keeps getting insulted by Korean/Chinese politicians. They get threatened by military powers and are unable to fight back because they dont have a military itself anymore. Dont you think its TIME TO MOVE ON? You do know that Japan consistently does the equivalent of denying the holocaust right? | ||
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Feartheguru
Canada1334 Posts
On September 16 2012 07:04 sharkie wrote: So we dwell on the past and dont move on? Japan got 2 nukes, lost tons of territory. Keeps getting insulted by Korean/Chinese politicians. They get threatened by military powers and are unable to fight back because they dont have a military itself anymore. Dont you think its TIME TO MOVE ON? Oh no they're getting insulted by politicians, what a pain those Japanese have to suffer through. Japan hasn't even apologized for it and China officially has moved on, it just wants its islands back ( which the Japanese took, the USA got control over and then gave to Japan for cold war political purposes), how does asking for its islands back have anything to do with MOVING ON? So if China took Hawaii while it's strong and held in for 50 years. You would just tell your mad friends to MOVE ON? | ||
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magicmUnky
Australia280 Posts
 Yes, the Japanese inflicted war crimes against the Chinese, but there are so many important circumstances left out that it makes no sense. No, it was not a holocaust denied. The denial of those crimes are not widespread but instead belong to a vocal minority. The problem in Japan is that the topic itself, while well understood, is taboo and thus out of the public consciousness. Regardless, not surprised to see mindless violence from the Chinese... destroying Chinese owned but Japanese made cars... maybe they should first get over their schizophrenic relationship with "the west" before they decide to rip themselves apart. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18629 Posts
On September 16 2012 07:09 magicmUnky wrote: As someone who's studied Japanese history, both by itself and related to other topics, I can say that most of what people are saying in this thread as "what happened" is absolutely garbage. Yes, the Japanese inflicted war crimes against the Chinese, but there are so many important circumstances left out that it makes no sense. No, it was not a holocaust denied. The denial of those crimes are not widespread but instead belong to a vocal minority. The problem in Japan is that the topic itself, while well understood, is taboo and thus out of the public consciousness. Regardless, not surprised to see mindless violence from the Chinese... destroying Chinese owned but Japanese made cars... maybe they should first get over their schizophrenic relationship with "the west" before they decide to rip themselves apart. +1 User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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forestry
95 Posts
jusco building windows got smashed by the thugs a rolex store got destroyed too a japanese person eating noodles was injured by the thugs | ||
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AngryMag
Germany1040 Posts
No I do not support Japan denying their war crimes, nor do I support these "protesters". But in general, most countries deny their war crimes, so they can still play the patriotism card back at home. Being part of war crimes makes it hard for politicians at home to get the people to waving flags and waving flags helps to deflect from innerpolitical problems. So let us not just pick Japan out and put the finger on them, rather do some self reflection. | ||
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RavenLoud
Canada1100 Posts
On September 16 2012 07:07 sharkie wrote: Taiwans "know" that they will re-unify with China? Taiwanese dislike, borderline hate mainland china Taiwan is more Japanese than Chinese (mentality wise). Very well, but at least the PRC "knows" that they will unify and therefore they won't be pissed off about it. I have doubts that Taiwan have similar mentality to Japan if you mean that they aren't angry about the war crimes. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18629 Posts
On September 16 2012 07:12 RavenLoud wrote: Very well, but at least the PRC "knows" that they will unify and therefore they won't be pissed off about it. I have doubts that Taiwan have similar mentality to Japan if you mean that they aren't angry about the war crimes. With mentality I meant their work ethic, politeness, technology know-how, hygiene. Maybe I meant culture, dont know. | ||
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Feartheguru
Canada1334 Posts
On September 16 2012 07:07 sharkie wrote: Taiwans "know" that they will re-unify with China? Taiwanese dislike, borderline hate mainland china Taiwan is more Japanese than Chinese (mentality wise). Ummm. You have 0 understanding on these Asian countries. Taiwan is the side that lost the civil war and fled to the island to setup a government in exile in the hope that in the future they can take back the whole country. There's obviously animosity (like north v south after the American civil war) but in the end they know they are the same people. What you just said is akin to something like Austria is more Nigerian than German, it just doesn't make sense. | ||
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RavenLoud
Canada1100 Posts
On September 16 2012 07:13 sharkie wrote: With mentality I meant their work ethic, politeness, technology know-how, hygiene. Maybe I meant culture, dont know. lol its k, well the mainland would be like that if it weren't for the cultural revolution as well. Taiwan did a great job preserving traditional Chinese culture. Though I'm not sure if I'd use the term "more Japanese" for it I understand where you're coming from, and I agree. | ||
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CeriseCherries
6170 Posts
On September 16 2012 07:09 magicmUnky wrote: As someone who's studied Japanese history, both by itself and related to other topics, I can say that most of what people are saying in this thread as "what happened" is absolutely garbage. oh shit. japan never invaded and occupied china. the cake is a lie. On September 16 2012 07:09 magicmUnky wrote: Yes, the Japanese inflicted war crimes against the Chinese, but there are so many important circumstances left out that it makes no sense. No, it was not a holocaust denied. The denial of those crimes are not widespread but instead belong to a vocal minority. The problem in Japan is that the topic itself, while well understood, is taboo and thus out of the public consciousness. Ah, how could i forget the important context that goes into raping children as young as 7 and as old as 70. Silly actually. Taboo + out of public consciousness = denial. No one wants to be sorry about it and no one is regretful. Its like saying I shot your grandpa (which literally happened to many chinese) but I never actually even apologized and the only atonement for the crime is that the big guy i also socked in the face beat me up. instead 70 years later i ignore the fact that your grandpa is dead instead of apologizing. On September 16 2012 07:09 magicmUnky wrote: Regardless, not surprised to see mindless violence from the Chinese... destroying Chinese owned but Japanese made cars... maybe they should first get over their schizophrenic relationship with "the west" before they decide to rip themselves apart. this sounds kind of racist, im not going to lie. thats the equivalent of saying im not surprised that blacks are violent... you realize that even canada riots... | ||
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coverpunch
United States2093 Posts
On September 16 2012 07:08 Feartheguru wrote: Oh no they're getting insulted by politicians, what a pain those Japanese have to suffer through. Japan hasn't even apologized for it and China officially has moved on, it just wants its islands back ( which the Japanese took, the USA got control over and then gave to Japan for cold war political purposes), how does asking for its islands back have anything to do with MOVING ON? So if China took Hawaii while it's strong and held in for 50 years. You would just tell your mad friends to MOVE ON? Um, no. Japan has apologized extensively for its crimes. Whether it has shown sensitivity and respect for its past crimes is a different issue from official apologies. Looking at the scale of the protests and what Chinese politicians are saying about it, it is China that has not moved on. And let's not bullshit about the Senkaku Islands. This has nothing to do with history or tradition or honor. It has everything to do with the fact that there might be oil in the maritime territory around the island. | ||
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