|
On September 16 2012 07:29 Jikan No Muda wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Uh, this is so stupid, whoever is pulling this off for their political agenda needs to be thrown to jail.
Oh wait it's China.
wtf
If we were pissed at everyone who is somehow related to some people who did atrocities in a time when atrocities were done by each side of the conflict, Europe would look a whole lot different than it does today.
Yeah Nanking was bad, so was Dresden and a whole bunch of other similar stories, it's human nature to destroy for no reason.
So what are the japanese supposed to say: "sorry we have the exact same traits as all the other people on earth?"
Now if there are people glorifying war criminals to drive their own weird agendas I kinda get these protests, if only they were pissed at the right people and not a whole country and it's people. Especially as the country has very little to do with the one it was 70 years before.
And what is an apology going to change exactly? What could make it worth for these people to go to the streets?
They have 0 reason to do any of this. This species confuses me so much sometimes.
We won't apologise because it does nothing. nice...
|
I want to make a separate point that politicians still make ugly Nazi references whenever Germany does something they don't like. So we shouldn't treat Germany as some kind of model for forgiveness because they're really not. Although German politicians don't troll by going to shrines honoring Germans killed in war (EDIT: or do they?).
|
On September 16 2012 07:15 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 07:07 sharkie wrote:On September 16 2012 07:06 RavenLoud wrote:On September 16 2012 06:50 Kurumi wrote:On September 16 2012 06:41 RavenLoud wrote:
Funny thing is, if the US handed these islands to Taiwan instead of Japan back then we wouldn't have this problem.
Why? Does China not recognize Taiwan as an independent country? Doesn't Taiwan call itself the "real" Republic of China? It is easy to claim something, I'd like to hear some arguments to back it up. A quick search on the wiki says there's oil near those islands. Well, I guess this explains why Japan is reluctant to give control of it. Please correct me if I am wrong obviously. Read my previous post. China-Taiwan is an issue of civil war, but deep down it's much more friendly, and both parties knows that they will re-unify SOME day. It's not nearly on the same scale of antigonization as Japan. Taiwans "know" that they will re-unify with China? Taiwanese dislike, borderline hate mainland china Taiwan is more Japanese than Chinese (mentality wise). Ummm. You have 0 understanding on these Asian countries. Taiwan is the side that lost the civil war and fled to the island to setup a government in exile in the hope that in the future they can take back the whole country. There's obviously animosity (like north v south after the American civil war) but in the end they know they are the same people. What you just said is akin to something like Austria is more Nigerian than German, it just doesn't make sense.
Ummm, you have about half understanding on this. Theres a large portion of the Taiwanese population that are descendants of the people who lived in Taiwan before the KMT fled there. KMT oppressed the shit out of them, so that's the whole reason as to why theres so much controversy with Taiwanese independence. Many people don't recognize the KMT as the legitimate government and thus claim Taiwan to be an independent country.
|
On September 16 2012 07:37 coverpunch wrote:
I want to make a separate point that politicians still make ugly Nazi references whenever Germany does something they don't like. So we shouldn't treat Germany as some kind of model for forgiveness because they're really not. Although German politicians don't troll by going to shrines honoring Germans killed in war (EDIT: or do they?).
Well the Germans killed in the war were just people serving their country, nothing wrong with that. If they visited the shrines of SS officials, that'd be another matter altogether.
|
On September 16 2012 07:27 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 07:22 Feartheguru wrote:On September 16 2012 07:20 coverpunch wrote:On September 16 2012 07:08 Feartheguru wrote:On September 16 2012 07:04 sharkie wrote:On September 16 2012 07:00 Feartheguru wrote:On September 16 2012 06:57 Silencioseu wrote:
Can someone explain me why EXACTLY do they protest against Japan? Because Japan invaded China and killed/raped indiscriminately for 20 years? So we dwell on the past and dont move on? Japan got 2 nukes, lost tons of territory. Keeps getting insulted by Korean/Chinese politicians. They get threatened by military powers and are unable to fight back because they dont have a military itself anymore. Dont you think its TIME TO MOVE ON? Oh no they're getting insulted by politicians, what a pain those Japanese have to suffer through. Japan hasn't even apologized for it and China officially has moved on, it just wants its islands back ( which the Japanese took, the USA got control over and then gave to Japan for cold war political purposes), how does asking for its islands back have anything to do with MOVING ON? So if China took Hawaii while it's strong and held in for 50 years. You would just tell your mad friends to MOVE ON? Um, no. Japan has apologized extensively for its crimes. Whether it has shown sensitivity and respect for its past crimes is a different issue from official apologies. Looking at the scale of the protests and what Chinese politicians are saying about it, it is China that has not moved on. And let's not bullshit about this. This has nothing to do with history or tradition or honor. It has everything to do with the fact that there might be oil in the maritime territory around the island. You know only the party that in on the receiving end "moves on" right? Like if I punched you in the face there's nothing for me to "move on" about, so I have no idea what you're trying to say. you move in the way of you forget this has happened Not stopping mentioning war crimes and whining about stuff is not moving on. How many times have you tried to use the war crimes to justify China's actions towards Japan?
You clearly cannot understand what I'm saying and respond with "you move in the way of you forget this has happened" that I can't understand so clearly we will never understand each other, better if we stopped talking to each other.
|
T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On September 16 2012 07:29 Jikan No Muda wrote:
Uh, this is so stupid, whoever is pulling this off for their political agenda needs to be thrown to jail.
Oh wait it's China.
wtf
If we were pissed at everyone who is somehow related to some people who did atrocities in a time when atrocities were done by each side of the conflict, Europe would look a whole lot different than it does today.
Yeah Nanking was bad, so was Dresden and a whole bunch of other similar stories, it's human nature to destroy for no reason.
So what are the japanese supposed to say: "sorry we have the exact same traits as all the other people on earth?"
Now if there are people glorifying war criminals to drive their own weird agendas I kinda get these protests, if only they were pissed at the right people and not a whole country and it's people. Especially as the country has very little to do with the one it was 70 years before.
And what is an apology going to change exactly? What could make it worth for these people to go to the streets?
They have 0 reason to do any of this. This species confuses me so much sometimes.
Japanese politicians are a big part of why there are riots. Look at guys like Shintaro Ishihara (mayor of Tokyo) and Toru Hashimoto (Osaka Mayor). They deny that atrocities ever happened. They edit japanese textbooks so that they don't mention that any atrocities happened.
|
On September 16 2012 07:47 T.O.P. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 07:29 Jikan No Muda wrote:
Uh, this is so stupid, whoever is pulling this off for their political agenda needs to be thrown to jail.
Oh wait it's China.
wtf
If we were pissed at everyone who is somehow related to some people who did atrocities in a time when atrocities were done by each side of the conflict, Europe would look a whole lot different than it does today.
Yeah Nanking was bad, so was Dresden and a whole bunch of other similar stories, it's human nature to destroy for no reason.
So what are the japanese supposed to say: "sorry we have the exact same traits as all the other people on earth?"
Now if there are people glorifying war criminals to drive their own weird agendas I kinda get these protests, if only they were pissed at the right people and not a whole country and it's people. Especially as the country has very little to do with the one it was 70 years before.
And what is an apology going to change exactly? What could make it worth for these people to go to the streets?
They have 0 reason to do any of this. This species confuses me so much sometimes. Japanese politicians are a big part of why there are riots. Look at guys like Shintaro Ishihara (mayor of Tokyo) and Toru Hashimoto (Osaka Mayor). They deny that atrocities ever happened. They edit japanese textbooks so that they don't mention that any atrocities happened.
And Korea/China don't have these sort of politicians?
But do you see the Japanese rioting?
Hell Germany, Austria has those kind of politicians too. Europe isn't destroying German cars last time I looked.
|
It's always easier for the victimizer to move on than the victim. That's normal, that's standard. Japan has not moved on from the US nuking Japan - not at the ground level, where you still find Japanese who are extremely anti-American, I don't see why China is supposed to get over Japan invading them and slaughtering their people.
For those bringing up Tibet, Xinjiang, etc. - you think those countries are going to forgive China when / if they become independent? Of course not.
|
On September 16 2012 07:49 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 07:47 T.O.P. wrote:On September 16 2012 07:29 Jikan No Muda wrote:
Uh, this is so stupid, whoever is pulling this off for their political agenda needs to be thrown to jail.
Oh wait it's China.
wtf
If we were pissed at everyone who is somehow related to some people who did atrocities in a time when atrocities were done by each side of the conflict, Europe would look a whole lot different than it does today.
Yeah Nanking was bad, so was Dresden and a whole bunch of other similar stories, it's human nature to destroy for no reason.
So what are the japanese supposed to say: "sorry we have the exact same traits as all the other people on earth?"
Now if there are people glorifying war criminals to drive their own weird agendas I kinda get these protests, if only they were pissed at the right people and not a whole country and it's people. Especially as the country has very little to do with the one it was 70 years before.
And what is an apology going to change exactly? What could make it worth for these people to go to the streets?
They have 0 reason to do any of this. This species confuses me so much sometimes. Japanese politicians are a big part of why there are riots. Look at guys like Shintaro Ishihara (mayor of Tokyo) and Toru Hashimoto (Osaka Mayor). They deny that atrocities ever happened. They edit japanese textbooks so that they don't mention that any atrocities happened. And Korea/China don't have these sort of politicians? But do you see the Japanese rioting? Hell Germany, Austria has those kind of politicians too. Europe isn't destroying German cars last time I looked.
people who lost parents, grandparents (and a few who are still alive that lived through that period) means that passions runs hot with this issue.
germany got shit all over after WWII. japan didn't. marshall plan rebuilt both but japan never got carved up into 4->2 then had american and soviet fists shoved up its ass. + esp in the west, nazis shit on constantly, but its not as ingrained that imperial japan was a huge asshole.
|
On September 16 2012 07:49 Azarkon wrote:
It's always easier for the victimizer to move on than the victim. That's normal, that's standard. Japan has not moved on from the US nuking Japan - not at the ground level, where you still find Japanese who are extremely anti-American, I don't see why China is supposed to get over Japan invading them and slaughtering their people.
For those bringing up Tibet, Xinjiang, etc. - you think those countries are going to forgive China when / if they become independent? Of course not.
You havent seen Japanese celebrate 9/11 did you?
But I have seen several Americans celebrating the Earthquake last year.
Oh wait, those were like 0.5% (aka the minority). So should we judge countries by their minorities or MOVE ON?
|
On September 16 2012 07:20 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 07:17 CeriseCherries wrote:On September 16 2012 07:09 magicmUnky wrote:As someone who's studied Japanese history, both by itself and related to other topics, I can say that most of what people are saying in this thread as "what happened" is absolutely garbage.  oh shit. japan never invaded and occupied china. the cake is a lie. On September 16 2012 07:09 magicmUnky wrote:
Yes, the Japanese inflicted war crimes against the Chinese, but there are so many important circumstances left out that it makes no sense. No, it was not a holocaust denied. The denial of those crimes are not widespread but instead belong to a vocal minority. The problem in Japan is that the topic itself, while well understood, is taboo and thus out of the public consciousness.
Ah, how could i forget the important context that goes into raping children as young as 7 and as old as 70. Silly actually. Taboo + out of public consciousness = denial. No one wants to be sorry about it and no one is regretful. Its like saying I shot your grandpa (which literally happened to many chinese) but I never actually even apologized and the only atonement for the crime is that the big guy i also socked in the face beat me up. instead 70 years later i ignore the fact that your grandpa is dead instead of apologizing. On September 16 2012 07:09 magicmUnky wrote:
Regardless, not surprised to see mindless violence from the Chinese... destroying Chinese owned but Japanese made cars... maybe they should first get over their schizophrenic relationship with "the west" before they decide to rip themselves apart. this sounds kind of racist, im not going to lie. thats the equivalent of saying im not surprised that blacks are violent... you realize that even canada riots... This is something I can't figure out either. People are not surprised that in Canada they smashed their own shops because of a hockey game... but when Chinese smash some of their own stuff because of a decades long hatred, it's "ridiculous" and "stupid".
Thank you. That's exactly what was bothering me about this thread. Chinese people, according to this thread, need to stop being ridiculous, "just move on", a reason to lose faith in humanity... Whyre those silly Chinese still so mad?
Go and read that wiki snippet someone posted from the rape of Nanking and then tell me that latent anger over that is "ridiculous". A riot is never justified, They are in fact stupid, but the feeling behind this are far from being worthy of ridicule.
God forbid anything like the Japanese occupation ever happen to the US because our eventual reactions would make these Chinese rioters look like saints.
|
On September 16 2012 07:49 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 07:47 T.O.P. wrote:On September 16 2012 07:29 Jikan No Muda wrote:
Uh, this is so stupid, whoever is pulling this off for their political agenda needs to be thrown to jail.
Oh wait it's China.
wtf
If we were pissed at everyone who is somehow related to some people who did atrocities in a time when atrocities were done by each side of the conflict, Europe would look a whole lot different than it does today.
Yeah Nanking was bad, so was Dresden and a whole bunch of other similar stories, it's human nature to destroy for no reason.
So what are the japanese supposed to say: "sorry we have the exact same traits as all the other people on earth?"
Now if there are people glorifying war criminals to drive their own weird agendas I kinda get these protests, if only they were pissed at the right people and not a whole country and it's people. Especially as the country has very little to do with the one it was 70 years before.
And what is an apology going to change exactly? What could make it worth for these people to go to the streets?
They have 0 reason to do any of this. This species confuses me so much sometimes. Japanese politicians are a big part of why there are riots. Look at guys like Shintaro Ishihara (mayor of Tokyo) and Toru Hashimoto (Osaka Mayor). They deny that atrocities ever happened. They edit japanese textbooks so that they don't mention that any atrocities happened. And Korea/China don't have these sort of politicians? But do you see the Japanese rioting? Hell Germany, Austria has those kind of politicians too. Europe isn't destroying German cars last time I looked.
So your telling me in Germany prominent politicians deny the holocaust? And sorry to bring up the holocaust but really its the only equivalent i can come up with to the rape of nanking. Denial of atrocities in Nanking is certainly not the most popular opinion held by the Japanese populace but it is still in the public discourse.
|
On September 16 2012 06:21 KwarK wrote:To be honest learning about Japanese conduct in world war two and the lack of a national self examining in the wake of the second world war kind of justifies anti-Japanese feelings. Imperial Japan was a diseased nation, akin to 1930s Germany, the difference is that Germany has swallowed its pride and learned to accept and learn from its past whereas Japan preferred self pity and denial. I don't require the Japanese descendants of the war criminals to atone any more than I would ask the German descendants of Nazis to atone. However accepting their shameful history and showing an awareness of the suffering their ancestors caused would help ease the tensions. Only a month ago two Japanese ministers visited a shrine honouring fourteen Class A war criminals. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-08-15/shrine/4200304Violent protests are always wrong but anti-Japanese sentiment is not without its justifications.
My, my, the pot's calling the kettle black, isn't he?
Surely the term 'British Empire' doesn't ring any bells?
|
On September 16 2012 07:33 RavenLoud wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 07:31 coverpunch wrote:On September 16 2012 07:22 Feartheguru wrote:On September 16 2012 07:20 coverpunch wrote:On September 16 2012 07:08 Feartheguru wrote:On September 16 2012 07:04 sharkie wrote:On September 16 2012 07:00 Feartheguru wrote:On September 16 2012 06:57 Silencioseu wrote:
Can someone explain me why EXACTLY do they protest against Japan? Because Japan invaded China and killed/raped indiscriminately for 20 years? So we dwell on the past and dont move on? Japan got 2 nukes, lost tons of territory. Keeps getting insulted by Korean/Chinese politicians. They get threatened by military powers and are unable to fight back because they dont have a military itself anymore. Dont you think its TIME TO MOVE ON? Oh no they're getting insulted by politicians, what a pain those Japanese have to suffer through. Japan hasn't even apologized for it and China officially has moved on, it just wants its islands back ( which the Japanese took, the USA got control over and then gave to Japan for cold war political purposes), how does asking for its islands back have anything to do with MOVING ON? So if China took Hawaii while it's strong and held in for 50 years. You would just tell your mad friends to MOVE ON? Um, no. Japan has apologized extensively for its crimes. Whether it has shown sensitivity and respect for its past crimes is a different issue from official apologies. Looking at the scale of the protests and what Chinese politicians are saying about it, it is China that has not moved on. And let's not bullshit about this. This has nothing to do with history or tradition or honor. It has everything to do with the fact that there might be oil in the maritime territory around the island. You know only the party that in on the receiving end "moves on" right? Like if I punched you in the face there's nothing for me to "move on" about, so I have no idea what you're trying to say. In the World Wars, everyone has to "move on". Japan lost everything in the war - no more empire, 3 million citizens killed, no buildings in Japan taller than two stories. My point is that the anti-Japanese anger is blown way out of proportion. The problem is that the level of shame is not well defined and it becomes a slippery slope. Japan says "sorry", Asia says "that's not good enough, bow". Japan bows, Asia says "that's still not good enough, kiss my feet". And so on. It's abundantly clear that the CCP is and has been using this to unify the people and draw attention away from themselves. After all the CCP my have caused more death with famine + cultural revolution than Japan.
Of course they are. They'd be stupid not to. But the resentment Chinese have for Japanese is at the ground level. It's not a manufactured phenomenon.
They won't forgive / forget any time soon.
|
On September 16 2012 07:52 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 07:49 Azarkon wrote:
It's always easier for the victimizer to move on than the victim. That's normal, that's standard. Japan has not moved on from the US nuking Japan - not at the ground level, where you still find Japanese who are extremely anti-American, I don't see why China is supposed to get over Japan invading them and slaughtering their people.
For those bringing up Tibet, Xinjiang, etc. - you think those countries are going to forgive China when / if they become independent? Of course not. You havent seen Japanese celebrate 9/11 did you? But I have seen several Americans celebrating the Earthquake last year. Oh wait, those were like 0.5% (aka the minority). So should we judge countries by their minorities or MOVE ON?
So if I send and assassin to kill your mother, 20 years later if we meet on the street we go clubbing together kk?
|
On September 16 2012 07:47 T.O.P. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 07:29 Jikan No Muda wrote:
Uh, this is so stupid, whoever is pulling this off for their political agenda needs to be thrown to jail.
Oh wait it's China.
wtf
If we were pissed at everyone who is somehow related to some people who did atrocities in a time when atrocities were done by each side of the conflict, Europe would look a whole lot different than it does today.
Yeah Nanking was bad, so was Dresden and a whole bunch of other similar stories, it's human nature to destroy for no reason.
So what are the japanese supposed to say: "sorry we have the exact same traits as all the other people on earth?"
Now if there are people glorifying war criminals to drive their own weird agendas I kinda get these protests, if only they were pissed at the right people and not a whole country and it's people. Especially as the country has very little to do with the one it was 70 years before.
And what is an apology going to change exactly? What could make it worth for these people to go to the streets?
They have 0 reason to do any of this. This species confuses me so much sometimes. Japanese politicians are a big part of why there are riots. Look at guys like Shintaro Ishihara (mayor of Tokyo) and Toru Hashimoto (Osaka Mayor). They deny that atrocities ever happened. They edit japanese textbooks so that they don't mention that any atrocities happened.
To be fair, at my High School (in California) from what I can remember (graduated 2010) they barely talked about the massacres that we did to the Native Americans. I was an A student, and I can't recall much of anything from history class when it came to massacres that the US led. Didn't even talk much about Hiroshima & Nagasaki either, it was more about WWII in general.
|
On September 16 2012 07:56 Silidons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 07:47 T.O.P. wrote:On September 16 2012 07:29 Jikan No Muda wrote:
Uh, this is so stupid, whoever is pulling this off for their political agenda needs to be thrown to jail.
Oh wait it's China.
wtf
If we were pissed at everyone who is somehow related to some people who did atrocities in a time when atrocities were done by each side of the conflict, Europe would look a whole lot different than it does today.
Yeah Nanking was bad, so was Dresden and a whole bunch of other similar stories, it's human nature to destroy for no reason.
So what are the japanese supposed to say: "sorry we have the exact same traits as all the other people on earth?"
Now if there are people glorifying war criminals to drive their own weird agendas I kinda get these protests, if only they were pissed at the right people and not a whole country and it's people. Especially as the country has very little to do with the one it was 70 years before.
And what is an apology going to change exactly? What could make it worth for these people to go to the streets?
They have 0 reason to do any of this. This species confuses me so much sometimes. Japanese politicians are a big part of why there are riots. Look at guys like Shintaro Ishihara (mayor of Tokyo) and Toru Hashimoto (Osaka Mayor). They deny that atrocities ever happened. They edit japanese textbooks so that they don't mention that any atrocities happened. To be fair, at my High School (in California) from what I can remember (graduated 2010) they barely talked about the massacres that we did to the Native Americans. I was an A student, and I can't recall much of anything from history class when it came to massacres that the US led. Didn't even talk much about Hiroshima & Nagasaki either, it was more about WWII in general.
No country flaunts about the bad stuff they did obviously, but saying it didn't happen is something different.
|
On September 16 2012 07:52 Zahir wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 07:20 Feartheguru wrote:On September 16 2012 07:17 CeriseCherries wrote:On September 16 2012 07:09 magicmUnky wrote:As someone who's studied Japanese history, both by itself and related to other topics, I can say that most of what people are saying in this thread as "what happened" is absolutely garbage. oh shit. japan never invaded and occupied china. the cake is a lie. On September 16 2012 07:09 magicmUnky wrote:
Yes, the Japanese inflicted war crimes against the Chinese, but there are so many important circumstances left out that it makes no sense. No, it was not a holocaust denied. The denial of those crimes are not widespread but instead belong to a vocal minority. The problem in Japan is that the topic itself, while well understood, is taboo and thus out of the public consciousness.
Ah, how could i forget the important context that goes into raping children as young as 7 and as old as 70. Silly actually. Taboo + out of public consciousness = denial. No one wants to be sorry about it and no one is regretful. Its like saying I shot your grandpa (which literally happened to many chinese) but I never actually even apologized and the only atonement for the crime is that the big guy i also socked in the face beat me up. instead 70 years later i ignore the fact that your grandpa is dead instead of apologizing. On September 16 2012 07:09 magicmUnky wrote:
Regardless, not surprised to see mindless violence from the Chinese... destroying Chinese owned but Japanese made cars... maybe they should first get over their schizophrenic relationship with "the west" before they decide to rip themselves apart. this sounds kind of racist, im not going to lie. thats the equivalent of saying im not surprised that blacks are violent... you realize that even canada riots... This is something I can't figure out either. People are not surprised that in Canada they smashed their own shops because of a hockey game... but when Chinese smash some of their own stuff because of a decades long hatred, it's "ridiculous" and "stupid". Thank you. That's exactly what was bothering me about this thread. Chinese people, according to this thread, need to stop being ridiculous, "just move on", a reason to lose faith in humanity... Whyre those silly Chinese still so mad? Go and read that wiki snippet someone posted from the rape of Nanking and then tell me that latent anger over that is "ridiculous". A riot is never justified, They are in fact stupid, but the feeling behind this are far from being worthy of ridicule. God forbid anything like the Japanese occupation ever happen to the US because our eventual reactions would make these Chinese rioters look like saints.
But there's a difference between remembering an atrocity and taking action as a result. The US DOES recall Pearl Harbor day every year. But we don't take the day to celebrate by breaking Japanese-made goods or attacking the embassy.
Nobody is denying that the Japanese did terrible things. But they paid for it in blood and destruction and humiliation. How much shame is enough?
|
On September 16 2012 06:28 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +I don't require the Japanese descendants of the war criminals to atone any more than I would ask the German descendants of Nazis to atone. However accepting their shameful history and showing an awareness of the suffering their ancestors caused would help ease the tensions. Only a month ago two Japanese ministers visited a shrine honouring fourteen Class A war criminals. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-08-15/shrine/4200304 The Yakusuni shrine is for all Japanese war dead. I don't think Japanese should shut themselves off from it because that includes war criminals. Every nation has a shipload of war criminals that were never caught or never prosecuted who died for their country as well and no one gets in a big huff about them honoring their war dead... except when it's convenient, of course. Show nested quote +To be honest learning about Japanese conduct in world war two and the lack of a national self examining in the wake of the second world war kind of justifies anti-Japanese feelings. Imperial Japan was a diseased nation, akin to 1930s Germany, the difference is that Germany has swallowed its pride and learned to accept and learn from its past whereas Japan preferred self pity and denial. To be honest China is more like Imperial (Kaiser Wilhelm) Germany in the way it looks at and deals with the world than anything else, the Communist Party would just make shit up to get people to hate Japan if they didn't already have good reasons from the past. Japan in WW2 is a smokescreen for confrontational Chinese nationalist ambition. Japan being a murderous brute of a bully doesn't justify China being a bully today. Japan bent itself over more than any country in history after WW2 (yeah we Americans put a gun to their head but they did do it) and gets little credit for it from the rest of Asia.
Well said
User was warned for this post
|
On September 16 2012 07:59 coverpunch wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 07:52 Zahir wrote:On September 16 2012 07:20 Feartheguru wrote:On September 16 2012 07:17 CeriseCherries wrote:On September 16 2012 07:09 magicmUnky wrote:As someone who's studied Japanese history, both by itself and related to other topics, I can say that most of what people are saying in this thread as "what happened" is absolutely garbage. oh shit. japan never invaded and occupied china. the cake is a lie. On September 16 2012 07:09 magicmUnky wrote:
Yes, the Japanese inflicted war crimes against the Chinese, but there are so many important circumstances left out that it makes no sense. No, it was not a holocaust denied. The denial of those crimes are not widespread but instead belong to a vocal minority. The problem in Japan is that the topic itself, while well understood, is taboo and thus out of the public consciousness.
Ah, how could i forget the important context that goes into raping children as young as 7 and as old as 70. Silly actually. Taboo + out of public consciousness = denial. No one wants to be sorry about it and no one is regretful. Its like saying I shot your grandpa (which literally happened to many chinese) but I never actually even apologized and the only atonement for the crime is that the big guy i also socked in the face beat me up. instead 70 years later i ignore the fact that your grandpa is dead instead of apologizing. On September 16 2012 07:09 magicmUnky wrote:
Regardless, not surprised to see mindless violence from the Chinese... destroying Chinese owned but Japanese made cars... maybe they should first get over their schizophrenic relationship with "the west" before they decide to rip themselves apart. this sounds kind of racist, im not going to lie. thats the equivalent of saying im not surprised that blacks are violent... you realize that even canada riots... This is something I can't figure out either. People are not surprised that in Canada they smashed their own shops because of a hockey game... but when Chinese smash some of their own stuff because of a decades long hatred, it's "ridiculous" and "stupid". Thank you. That's exactly what was bothering me about this thread. Chinese people, according to this thread, need to stop being ridiculous, "just move on", a reason to lose faith in humanity... Whyre those silly Chinese still so mad? Go and read that wiki snippet someone posted from the rape of Nanking and then tell me that latent anger over that is "ridiculous". A riot is never justified, They are in fact stupid, but the feeling behind this are far from being worthy of ridicule. God forbid anything like the Japanese occupation ever happen to the US because our eventual reactions would make these Chinese rioters look like saints. But there's a difference between remembering an atrocity and taking action as a result. The US DOES recall Pearl Harbor day every year. But we don't take the day to celebrate by breaking Japanese-made goods or attacking the embassy. Nobody is denying that the Japanese did terrible things. But they paid for it in blood and destruction and humiliation. How much shame is enough?
Again, human nature. The US took revenge for Pearl Harbor. The Chinese never took revenge for anything.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
