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Pro-China, Anti-Japan Protests - Page 125

Forum Index > General Forum
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coverpunch
Profile Joined December 2011
United States2093 Posts
December 18 2012 00:30 GMT
#2481
On December 18 2012 05:51 Sanctimonius wrote:
It's the strangest thing, to me. Japan has undergone what in many countries would be political instability leading to riots, clashes between rival supporters, mass demonstrations, whatever. Yet Japan has just continued, and the people there never seemed to care who was in power. They just shook their heads and said shoganai - it can't be helped. International news has pointed to the unprecedented election results a couple of years ago as a sign things are changing - nope. Couldn't be further from the truth.

Japanese politicians tend to come from the same schools, the same small pool, and they are pretty similar in outlook and temperament. This one downplays their recent past, that one apologises, but the economy continues in a downward spiral. The construction industry calls the shots on domestic spending, forcing through projects unnecessary and destructive, simply to keep the money flowing. All that matters is that the bureaucracy keeps on trucking, and the yennies keep getting spent, and it does no matter who is in power.

The Japanese people have the same problem as a lot of countries do these days - lack of a viable alternative. The US faced that very problem last election, with too many dissatisfied with Obama but Romney was a terrible choice instead, and there just aren't any other legitimate parties to choose from. They don't have a decent choice who will stand up and deal with the vast problems they are facing - the strong yen and the massive gulf between spending and income, the population that is way too old and immigration that is very restrictive. Japan is heading for implosion very soon as they just don't have enough workers to pay for their elderly, and nobody is addressing that. I fear for their future.

I largely agree with you, but I think you're severely discounting the requirement for stability and how scared the Japanese public is to allow large institutions to fail.

But to put it out there - this election was as much a repudiation of the incumbent DPJ as it was a desperate cry to return to the past through the LDP. Between the response and post-disaster mess of Fukushima and the malaise of continued low growth (with ominous rumbles within Japan that Samsung maybe doesn't make crap any more, despite being 3x bigger than Japan Inc put together), the incumbents were of course going to be thrown out on their asses. Japanese voters are also VERY unhappy about sales taxes being doubled (from 5% to 10%), plans to raise it further.

It is scary, however, that the LDP is coming in sounding more nationalist notes and is making it pretty clear that they're going to use China as a distraction for many domestic problems, just as Beijing is using the Senkaku islands to distract from reports that Chinese factory workers suffer from mass depression and they want better conditions.
lord_nibbler
Profile Joined March 2004
Germany591 Posts
December 18 2012 00:57 GMT
#2482
The thing is, Japanese politics have always been inaccessible, secretive and corrupt. But that did not stop them in the 80ies.
The real problem lies in the decreasing competitiveness of Japanese business as a whole.
To turn this around and hold it's ground against China and South Korea will be might difficult for any politician...
Sub40APM
Profile Joined August 2010
6336 Posts
December 18 2012 01:02 GMT
#2483
Chinese businesses are competitive for the same reason Japanese were in the 80s. Limitless credit from the state and slave labor.
Shady Sands
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4021 Posts
January 18 2013 02:48 GMT
#2484
On December 18 2012 10:02 Sub40APM wrote:
Chinese businesses are competitive for the same reason Japanese were in the 80s. Limitless credit from the state and slave labor.

Agree on the limitless credit part, but... Japanese businesses in the 80s ran on slave labor?
Что?
Shady Sands
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4021 Posts
June 05 2013 16:39 GMT
#2485
lol, well this is awkward:

http://ajw.asahi.com/article/behind_news/politics/AJ201306040056
On Jun 04 2013 Kakuei Tanaka said:
According to Nonaka, Japan and China had agreed that the Senkaku issue should be shelved during efforts to improve ties without touching on such a sensitive subject.


http://www.foreignaffairs.com/discussions/interviews/japan-is-back
On May 16 2013 Shinzo Abe said:
We have never agreed with the Chinese to shelve the issue of the Senkaku Islands. To say that we have in the past is a complete lie by the Chinese.

Kakuei Tanaka was present in the 1972 negotiations. Abe-san, why you lie?
Что?
ragz_gt
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
9172 Posts
June 05 2013 16:49 GMT
#2486
I wouldn't take anything Abe says seriously. He is like Michele Bachmann of Japan.
I'm not an otaku, I'm a specialist.
Shady Sands
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4021 Posts
June 05 2013 16:52 GMT
#2487
On June 06 2013 01:49 ragz_gt wrote:
I wouldn't take anything Abe says seriously. He is like Michele Bachmann of Japan.

Except in America, Michele Bachmann drops out of congressional races, while in Japan, Shinzo Abe wins the Prime Minister seat...
Что?
ddrddrddrddr
Profile Joined August 2010
1344 Posts
June 05 2013 17:16 GMT
#2488
On June 06 2013 01:39 Shady Sands wrote:
lol, well this is awkward:

http://ajw.asahi.com/article/behind_news/politics/AJ201306040056
Show nested quote +
On Jun 04 2013 Kakuei Tanaka said:
According to Nonaka, Japan and China had agreed that the Senkaku issue should be shelved during efforts to improve ties without touching on such a sensitive subject.


http://www.foreignaffairs.com/discussions/interviews/japan-is-back
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2013 Shinzo Abe said:
We have never agreed with the Chinese to shelve the issue of the Senkaku Islands. To say that we have in the past is a complete lie by the Chinese.

Kakuei Tanaka was present in the 1972 negotiations. Abe-san, why you lie?

He doesn't lie. He never lies. He is rewriting history, and that is okay.
Shady Sands
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4021 Posts
June 06 2013 00:01 GMT
#2489
On June 06 2013 02:16 ddrddrddrddr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2013 01:39 Shady Sands wrote:
lol, well this is awkward:

http://ajw.asahi.com/article/behind_news/politics/AJ201306040056
On Jun 04 2013 Kakuei Tanaka said:
According to Nonaka, Japan and China had agreed that the Senkaku issue should be shelved during efforts to improve ties without touching on such a sensitive subject.


http://www.foreignaffairs.com/discussions/interviews/japan-is-back
On May 16 2013 Shinzo Abe said:
We have never agreed with the Chinese to shelve the issue of the Senkaku Islands. To say that we have in the past is a complete lie by the Chinese.

Kakuei Tanaka was present in the 1972 negotiations. Abe-san, why you lie?

He doesn't lie. He never lies. He is rewriting history, and that is okay.

lol, Romanians....
Что?
haierhzy
Profile Joined June 2013
China9 Posts
June 09 2013 16:46 GMT
#2490
I'm Chinese,I like Sora Aoi, because she does not need to pay,But the Chinese of the Japanese militarism still hate,This is a historical problem caused by the。After all, Japan has been in the implementation of China's massacre
Brindled
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States508 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-09 17:50:04
June 09 2013 17:43 GMT
#2491
On June 06 2013 01:39 Shady Sands wrote:
lol, well this is awkward:

http://ajw.asahi.com/article/behind_news/politics/AJ201306040056
Show nested quote +
On Jun 04 2013 Kakuei Tanaka said:
According to Nonaka, Japan and China had agreed that the Senkaku issue should be shelved during efforts to improve ties without touching on such a sensitive subject.


http://www.foreignaffairs.com/discussions/interviews/japan-is-back
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2013 Shinzo Abe said:
We have never agreed with the Chinese to shelve the issue of the Senkaku Islands. To say that we have in the past is a complete lie by the Chinese.

Kakuei Tanaka was present in the 1972 negotiations. Abe-san, why you lie?



The official transcript of the 1972 meeting is as such:

[Japan-China Summit Meeting (Prime Minister Kakuei Tanaka and Premier Zhou En-Lai)] (September 27th, 1972) (Made Public by Diplomatic Records Archive) (Provisional translation)
Prime Minister Tanaka: “What do you think about the Senkaku Islands? Some people say things about them to me.”
Premier Zhou: “I don’t want to talk about the Senkaku Islands at this time. It’s not good to discuss this now. It became an issue because of the oil out there. If there wasn’t oil, neither Taiwan nor the United States would make this an issue.”
http://www.mofa.go.jp/region/asia-paci/senkaku/pdfs/senkaku_en.pdf

I think the LDP's stance was to treat Tanaka's query and lack of response as a silent, non-response, therefore not an agreement.
However, the silence can easily be interpreted by everyone else as implicit agreement. This is probably why Abe said those things on 16 May.
I don't believe Abe was lying, he was just sticking to his party's line. But it is quite awkward nonetheless. Nonaka just came out on 04 June and cleared up the confusion...to the disadvantage of the LDP. Haha.
Keep in mind that the document I have provided as a source was set up by the current administration, so some editing of the diplomatic cables to make it look like the Chinese side kept trying to shelve the issue without Japanese agreement is entirely possible.
Ua Mau ke Ea o ka ʻĀina i ka Pono @TL_Brindled11
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