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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
I am aware of that. It's why i responded like this when you told me to stop being racist when i defended Kwark. On October 20 2012 17:54 ShadeR wrote: Perfect example of a warped version of white guilt. Made in China too. | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
ShadeR, can we drop the personal attacks, please? I'm really doing my best to be civil here and I don't appreciate you coming in and being like lol u overreact and ur so stupid it looks like u deliberately misinterpreted every single post about japs. [edit] Sorry, I apologize, I said so in my earlier posts but I was being emotional in that first post because I was offended. I'm sorry I said that, it was my bad. [/edit] [edit2] Also I wasn't really sure what your post was saying about white guilt at the time, it was a sort of foreign concept to me because it's not something I come across often here in Hawaii and it didn't click immediately. The made in China part I thought was just an off-the-cuff insult. Which I mean, I guess it was, but I deserved it? I dunno, I don't care, let's drop it here. I'm sorry. [/edit2] | ||
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xelnaga_empire
627 Posts
On October 21 2012 14:53 Orek wrote: 1. This is your like 4th time posting exactly the same thing. 2. Majority opinion =/= truth. 3. Resolution has no citing whatsoever and not even second-hand evidence. 4. Caihead, who I disagreed with earlier, presented so much more useful source than this. I waited 1 month for the evidence, but until Caihead came around yesterday, I never read a decent first-hand evidence on this issue in this thread. Before him, everything was emotional talk without evidence or only with second-hand evidence which sufficiently proves nothing. I bring Resolution 121 up over and over again because there are some people in this thread that claim that Japan today is not trying to whitewash their atrocities in WW2 and not trying to write revisionist history on their atrocities. When I bring up that Japan's closest ally and friend, the USA, is saying Japan is doing some of these things, it gives these people who deny Japan isn't doing any of these things a sense of reality. You don't see the USA bringing up these resolutions with Germany, do you? The reason is, the German government isn't trying to rewrite their history - the German government openly admits to their atrocities and is properly educating their population. Let's go over a few undeniable facts: 1) US House of Representatives accusses Japan of whitewashing their atrocities in WW2 in Resolution 121 2) German government keeps open the concentration camps to remind Germans and tourists of the holocaust, despite the shame it brings to Germany 3) German government has a memorial dedicated to the Jews killed in WW2 It's pretty black and white. There is a world of difference between Germany and Japan. | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
Could you state what you mean clearly, please? | ||
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m4inbrain
1505 Posts
On October 21 2012 19:15 xelnaga_empire wrote: I bring Resolution 121 up over and over again because there are some people in this thread that claim that Japan today is not trying to whitewash their atrocities in WW2 and not trying to write revisionist history on their atrocities. When I bring up that Japan's closest ally and friend, the USA, is saying Japan is doing some of these things, it gives these people who deny Japan isn't doing any of these things a sense of reality. You don't see the USA bringing up these resolutions with Germany, do you? The reason is, the German government isn't trying to rewrite their history - the German government openly admits to their atrocities and is properly educating their population. Let's go over a few undeniable facts: 1) US House of Representatives accusses Japan of whitewashing their atrocities in WW2 in Resolution 121 2) German government keeps open the concentration camps to remind Germans and tourists of the holocaust, despite the shame it brings to Germany 3) German government has a memorial dedicated to the Jews killed in WW2 It's pretty black and white. There is a world of difference between Germany and Japan. Its semantics, but the german government does not admit "its" atrocities, but the atrocities that happened in WW2. Theres a difference. Further, germany is pretty much unique with that. There is no other country that openly admits warcrimes, that includes the US, japan and china. And lastly, well. The Germans also didn't get nuked. That is correct, but. You might want to look up Essen, Dresden, Wesel etc (and many more), which got hit by obliteration bombing/carpet bombing. All these cities (and many more) were destroyed by more than 90%, so i actually don't think that "we did not get nuked" is kinda an argument here. | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
On October 21 2012 19:45 m4inbrain wrote: Its semantics, but the german government does not admit "its" atrocities, but the atrocities that happened in WW2. Theres a difference. Further, germany is pretty much unique with that. There is no other country that openly admits warcrimes, that includes the US, japan and china. And lastly, well. That is correct, but. You might want to look up Essen, Dresden, Wesel etc (and many more), which got hit by obliteration bombing/carpet bombing. All these cities (and many more) were destroyed by more than 90%, so i actually don't think that "we did not get nuked" is kinda an argument here. You could make the argument that the German government does not need to admit to anything thanks to the denazification process. There is no Japanese equivalent. Hirohito got away scot free when he should have been executed. | ||
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bioniK
United States65 Posts
On October 21 2012 19:15 xelnaga_empire wrote: I bring Resolution 121 up over and over again because there are some people in this thread that claim that Japan today is not trying to whitewash their atrocities in WW2 and not trying to write revisionist history on their atrocities. When I bring up that Japan's closest ally and friend, the USA, is saying Japan is doing some of these things, it gives these people who deny Japan isn't doing any of these things a sense of reality. You don't see the USA bringing up these resolutions with Germany, do you? The reason is, the German government isn't trying to rewrite their history - the German government openly admits to their atrocities and is properly educating their population. Let's go over a few undeniable facts: 1) US House of Representatives accusses Japan of whitewashing their atrocities in WW2 in Resolution 121 2) German government keeps open the concentration camps to remind Germans and tourists of the holocaust, despite the shame it brings to Germany 3) German government has a memorial dedicated to the Jews killed in WW2 It's pretty black and white. There is a world of difference between Germany and Japan. US House of Representatives are not accusing Japanese of whitewashing their atrocities in WW2, they are only asking the Japanese to acknowledge/apologize specifically for the coercion of comfort women. | ||
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RavenLoud
Canada1100 Posts
Japan election: LDP's Shinzo Abe vows tough China line The leader of Japan's Liberal Democratic Party (LDP) has vowed to take a tough stance in territorial disputes with China. Mr Abe said the islands were Japan's "inherent territory" and it was his party's objective was "to stop the challenge" from China. "We don't intend to worsen relations between Japan and China," he said, adding that both sides "need to share the recognition that having good relations is in the national interests of both countries". "China lacks this recognition a little bit. I want them to think anew about mutually beneficial strategic relations," he said. Acknowledging Mr Abe's apparent victory, China's state-run Xinhua news agency warned that an "economically weak and politically angry Japan will not only hurt the country, but also hurt the region and the world at large. It urged Japan's leaders to take a "rational stand on foreign policy" rather than "pandering to domestic hawkish views and picking fights with its neighbours". Mr Abe has promised more public spending, looser monetary policy, and to allow nuclear energy a role to play in resource-poor Japan's future despite last year's nuclear disaster at Fukushima. But economists say there is little new in Mr Abe's policies, or 'Abenomics' as they have been called. They have been adopted by previous LDP governments without successfully renewing the Japanese economy. In a recent interview, Mr Abe told me it was time for Japan to change its pacifist constitution so it can have a proper military and defend its own territory. He also vowed to protect every inch of Japan's sacred land and sea - including the disputed Senkaku or Diaoyu Islands. That by itself is not particularly controversial. But Mr Abe belongs to that part of Japanese society that does not really believe Japan's wartime aggression against China and South East Asia was a crime. He favours the teaching of a more patriotic, uncritical version of Japanese history. Most controversially, he has openly said he does not believe that Japanese troops forced Chinese, Korean, and women from other Asian countries into sexual slavery during the Second World War. Source EDIT: Some comments in response to the same article by readers. + Show Spoiler + Now India can overtake Japan to be #3 faster. So sad. Pearl Harbor for the Japan-China disputed islands. + Show Spoiler + To say that Japan is weak is to overlook the underlying credentials, it has in fact performed very well for an advanced nation, better than most in Europe and North America. Its problems will be China's in 20 years when its population bubble bursts. China needs to be less antagonistic or risk alienating Asia as Russia did Europe. Sadly they tend to pander to nationalists to keep dissent at bay. + Show Spoiler + As the Chinese say, "May we live in interesting times". Unfortunate it has come to this though. Japan has to rely on its old enemy (the only one in the world to have nuked another), USA, to fend off a perceived threat of China. USA is more different in culture and history to Japan than China. We've seen that extreme rivals in the past can form alliances. France-Germany - now the EU. + Show Spoiler + Japan's move towards nationalism precisely symbolises the return of the old politics, which ought to fail. We are looking for a diplomatic solution and this election further adds legitimacy to Japan's clumsy unilateral moves that has so far seen no success. There is absolutely nothing new about the politics of Japan. I feel like Japan is going back to 1930s. + Show Spoiler + To further add, there is nothing that would scare America and Anglo Saxon world dominance more than the world's 2nd and 3rd largest economies grouping together - or worse still, an East Asian oriental bloc - forming an alliance akin to NATO, with their own "World" Bank, "I"MF etc... which is why the US are so eager to make their alliance with Japan work. Divide and conquer. | ||
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Pseudoku
Canada1279 Posts
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RavenLoud
Canada1100 Posts
On December 17 2012 03:15 Pseudoku wrote: Dafuq... how can they vote in a person like that.. Keep in mind that the Japanese public didn't vote for him just because of his historic views, but more to punish the previous DPJ party who wanted to double sales tax. Naturally, they went back to the old LDP who had dominated Japanese politics for 50+ years before the DPJ came into power. | ||
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silynxer
Germany439 Posts
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Pseudoku
Canada1279 Posts
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RavenLoud
Canada1100 Posts
On December 17 2012 03:20 silynxer wrote: It's more like they voted out Noda and mostly because of domestic issues. Unfortunately this is going to complicate the situation with China but you shouldn't take this election as an endorsement of the Japanese people for right wing foreign policy I think. Yes, exactly. Still, it's a disappointing situation. His economic policies doesn't really impress me either. | ||
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Kamille
Monaco1035 Posts
On October 21 2012 19:15 xelnaga_empire wrote: I bring Resolution 121 up over and over again because there are some people in this thread that claim that Japan today is not trying to whitewash their atrocities in WW2 and not trying to write revisionist history on their atrocities. When I bring up that Japan's closest ally and friend, the USA, is saying Japan is doing some of these things, it gives these people who deny Japan isn't doing any of these things a sense of reality. You don't see the USA bringing up these resolutions with Germany, do you? The reason is, the German government isn't trying to rewrite their history - the German government openly admits to their atrocities and is properly educating their population. Let's go over a few undeniable facts: 1) US House of Representatives accusses Japan of whitewashing their atrocities in WW2 in Resolution 121 2) German government keeps open the concentration camps to remind Germans and tourists of the holocaust, despite the shame it brings to Germany 3) German government has a memorial dedicated to the Jews killed in WW2 It's pretty black and white. There is a world of difference between Germany and Japan. If Americans were concerned in anyway with Japan's atrocities in WW2, they would begin by pressuring publishers to add it to American text books. I brought this point up before, because most Americans in high school do not learn anything about the Pacific theatre of WW2. They focus on how many people would have died, had they not used both atomic bombs, trying to justify their actions. I had to learn mostly on my own about what happened to China during WW2 and the Second Sino-Japanese war. | ||
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RavenLoud
Canada1100 Posts
On December 17 2012 03:21 Pseudoku wrote: Well he wants Japan to stop being a pacifist nation? A lot of people in the area are not going to take kindly to that... They take even less kindly to China's rise in power though. The prospect of starting WW3 because of some tiny islands with oil is worthy of a million facepalms, hope we transition into renewables sooner rather than later. | ||
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Caihead
Canada8550 Posts
On December 17 2012 03:28 RavenLoud wrote: They take even less kindly to China's rise in power though. The prospect of starting WW3 because of some tiny islands with oil is worthy of a million facepalms, hope we transition into renewables sooner rather than later. The prospect is never over any specific piece of land, but over an overarching ideology: Do we want to expand our land or do we want relative security? Do we want to control other economies or do we want to be self sufficient? Even if this issue got resolved all it would take was another discovery of some other resource some where near the border space to trigger the same problems. | ||
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ddrddrddrddr
1344 Posts
Is there anything more need for the debate? Seems like whether a war is coming would be all that matters considering there's no more reason for Japan to budge with explicit American backing. China can boycott Japan goods but there isn't much that can be done about the islands. | ||
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Caihead
Canada8550 Posts
On December 17 2012 04:01 ddrddrddrddr wrote: US has taken a side apparently. http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/T121201003302.htm Is there anything more need for the debate? Seems like whether a war is coming would be all that matters considering there's no more reason for Japan to budge with explicit American backing. China can boycott Japan goods but there isn't much that can be done about the islands. No one wants a war, people who think they want a war are either psychotic in which case they are welcome to go kill each other, or have no idea wtf they are talking about because it's been too long since they've experienced a war (see Pre WWI America). I just feel bad for all the honest and peaceful Chinese / Japanese populace that don't want anything to do with the violent disputes who will be endangered. | ||
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EchoZ
Japan5041 Posts
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Caihead
Canada8550 Posts
On December 17 2012 04:15 EchoZ wrote: How did this debate reignite? Japan just had another election vote and the old PM Yoshihiko Noda is losing to Shinzo Abe, who is one of the most hated figures in terms of his stances on white washing and denying Japan's actions in WWII. He also visits the Shrines on multiple occasions. | ||
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