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At least this is what I've been noticing ALOT lately from my regular browsing forums listening to streams/podcasts on TL . Theres alot of "passion" and love for the game that gets thrown around alot on team liquid, at lans, etc. But what seems extremely odd to me, is that all the people who seemingly care the most about the game, and support it the most, are often the ones that play it the least. Let me throw out some recent things that have motivated me to post about this:
- the day9 daily when he said that majority of people who watch his stream don't even play sc2 (during a recent daily last week where he was explaining how to get into sc2)
-Destiny's interview where he talks about a police offer going well out of his way to find starcraft players sponsors (even though he has never played the game, I'll also assume he had no particular personal financial benefit from doing so. Realistically how is a police officer going to benefit from sponsoring a weekly show-match series, think its safe to make this assumption)
- Last state of the game (the live show) first question that was asked from the crowd was about esports, and from a player who the first thing he said was him being in bronze league (see next bullet)
- And just statistically speaking, the majority of people in the sc2 population are NOT diamond+. Theres no physical/mental barrier that has to be broken for anybody on Earth to make it to AT LEAST diamond, or low/mid masters. It just takes playing the game. For me, it seems to me that if people loved the game so much and loved esports so much, they couldnt possibly be in bronze/silver/gold.
I really like sc2 (not gonna say I "love" the game). So I play the game alot. Usually 1-3 hours a day depending on my school schedule with exams or what not. I rarely analyze my replays, I have no friends that play the game, no practice partners, and I've never had a problem being in at least mid level of the highest league. I know this is gonna sound like "ohh hes making the thread to tell people how good he is" or something like that. The only reason I'm saying this is because I'm not special, im a shitty player (only difference between me and a bronze league player is that I play more). I'm not in love with sc2, I just enjoy the game. I would never go to a LAN event to spectate, or go to a blizcon, or do anything revolving around sc2 that is outside my bedroom. What is so crazy for me is that while I'm sitting around watching some casts or games, I always hear about the people talking about the love for esports or trying to grow esports, and just demographically speaking alot of these questions are from people from the lowest leagues, who are there not because they suck at games, but because they dont play the game.
What I guess this really stems down to is perhaps something wrong on my end. I see love for the game and time spent playing it as extremely strongly positively correlated (people who love it the most, play it the most). But anytime I watch a podcast or stream, or interview or whatever type of video coverage, the people making the most effort to go out and ask questions, talk to streamers/players in person, make comments about esports and love for the game, always seem to be the lowest level players (or non-players all together). I sit around wondering why all these posts about growth of e-sports arent made from the very top players, who are effected most by it.Rarely(if ever) do you see pro players, or even players in top200 of any server commenting on growth of esports or where they want it to be (most of the threads you will see from these caliber of players is about balance, which is also something that effects them the most). I can almost say with certainty that the smallest percentage of people going to sc2 events are masters league players (based on questions asked, and my projection of personal biases).
What do you guys think of this? Whats going on here? Why do people who hardly play the game(or not at all) care about it?
Obviously my post is filled with generalizations,I'm probably overgeneralizing alot, but even then, the question can be asked on an individual level, what motivates that bronze league player to go out and pay to see an event, watch a game he barely plays, and ask questions to top tiered players of the game what they think about x and y about the game. Even though I'm probably exaggerating the fact that perhaps the most interest or a majority of interest comes from non-players (non players in the sense I use is intended to encompass people who rarely play 1v1's on sc2).
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Majority of people who watch football would have trouble sprinting across the whole field, simple really.
Do you really think that majority of korean BW audience actively plays the game ? If you want something to become big, you have to hit people not actively interested in it already, look at Wii, The Sims and similar stuff, they got huge because they targeted people who normally don't buy stuff like that.
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On March 20 2011 07:28 Zaphid wrote:
Majority of people who watch football would have trouble sprinting across the whole field, simple really.
^^ this
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On March 20 2011 07:28 Zaphid wrote:
Majority of people who watch football would have trouble sprinting across the whole field, simple really.
Exactly this.
Also you are saying that it is not problem to get to diamond if you try (and i agree) BUT I know many people who just play the game really casually to the point where they are not wanting to get promoted, they just like to play for fun in their silver/gold league.
edit: and to compare it to football - some who watch will go play for fun with friends, but will never actually train to improve
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On March 20 2011 07:30 VarpuliS wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2011 07:28 Zaphid wrote:
Majority of people who watch football would have trouble sprinting across the whole field, simple really.
^^ this
Thats makes equally little sense to me
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On March 20 2011 07:31 smetson wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2011 07:28 Zaphid wrote:
Majority of people who watch football would have trouble sprinting across the whole field, simple really.
Exactly this. Also you are saying that it is not problem to get to diamond if you try (and i agree) BUT I know many people who just play the game really casually to the point where they are not wanting to get promoted, they just like to play for fun in their silver/gold league.edit: and to compare it to football - some who watch will go play for fun with friends, but will never actually train to improve
Thats the thing though, I understand if you just chill and play a few solos here and there im not trying to downplay people who play sc2 like that. But really these chill casual players arent the ones making all the noise at sc2 events or on forums/stream chats talking about wanting to grow esports. And its the ones that are that puzzle me and have lead to me making this thread.
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it's a matter of entertainment. I have a friend that looks many games (GSL, TSL, etc...) and he's not EVEN playing the game. We sometimes discuss the game and all, and we actually have fun doing it. Oh and yeah im having fun in my golden league.
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That is good, because it shows that SC2 is easy enough to understand the basics even if you dont play it. Does that sound familiar? Yea that is how real life sports fans are too, most fans you see on stands are out of shape, bald, white guys (not that we in SC2 are that, we are long haired, ripped, handsome nerds ofc =D).
Some games that tried esports like WoW Arena could never garner interest outside of the people who actually did Arena and understood what was going on.
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StarCraft 2 is a game that is designed to be fun to watch. Many people do not have time to play that much but still enoy the game a lot, making them to watch pro games. I'm a silver player, and it seems almost impossible to me to reach even the Platinum league. It took me like 300 games to go from bronze to silver, and will probably take me even more before reaching gold. That's why wathcing eSports is so interesting to me, because I'm always impressed by their style of play, by their talent. It somehow captivates me. Moreover, it is really more fun to see those people making big strategic decisions then playing ladder, making tons of mistakes, feeling bad about those mistakes, and seeing my opponent make a lot too. And yeah, this is like anyone watching football, or hockey, or any other sport. Most of the watchers cannot play those sports correctly.
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I think the ability to enjoy a game like SC2 does not stem from ability to play the game; I'd argue that even all the chobos you are talking about that barely/don't play the game have at least played the game a few times, and have rudimentary understandings of what's going on. In essence, to enjoy watching, you dont need to play, and if they are enjoying it then what's the big deal.
Personally, playing 1v1 sort of stresses me out; I've always been a team game kind of guy, so I have tons of 2v2 3v3 4v4 games, and only like 40 1v1 games. Sometimes watching others duke it out is more fun then watching ur noob butt get owned :p
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On March 20 2011 07:34 Kelethius wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2011 07:30 VarpuliS wrote:On March 20 2011 07:28 Zaphid wrote:
Majority of people who watch football would have trouble sprinting across the whole field, simple really.
^^ this Thats makes equally little sense to me
So enjoying something you cant necessarily do wonderfully doesnt make sense? Im not wonderful at starcraft, i lack multi tasking skills and for some reason i get nervous as heck every time i play the game. I LOVE Starcraft 2. I play it a lot. I watch it even more. You dont have to be amazing at something to enjoy it.
To me thats like saying if you aren't a renown chef who knows how to cook gourmet meals, then you cant enjoy them.
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Most people who love this game are low level players, but that's just because there are a lot more people in bronze league than in high masters league, not because the master leaguers love the game less. After all among the players active in the last 2 weeks, about 3% are in master league and about 47% are in bronze, so it's hardly surprising that the latter group is much more visible.
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I don't have any motivation to get good at this game.
I do play other games competitively (for a certain value of competitive anyway), but I like watching SC2. Whole point of sport, really.
I think it's a good thing that SC2 esports isn't just a phenomenon isolated to hardcore players.
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On March 20 2011 07:36 Kelethius wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2011 07:31 smetson wrote:On March 20 2011 07:28 Zaphid wrote:
Majority of people who watch football would have trouble sprinting across the whole field, simple really.
Exactly this. Also you are saying that it is not problem to get to diamond if you try (and i agree) BUT I know many people who just play the game really casually to the point where they are not wanting to get promoted, they just like to play for fun in their silver/gold league.edit: and to compare it to football - some who watch will go play for fun with friends, but will never actually train to improve Thats the thing though, I understand if you just chill and play a few solos here and there im not trying to downplay people who play sc2 like that. But really these chill casual players arent the ones making all the noise at sc2 events or on forums/stream chats talking about wanting to grow esports. And its the ones that are that puzzle me and have lead to me making this thread.
Who said they aren't? I know plenty of silver/gold leaguers that don't play but watch streams and games and tourneys all the time.
So, I'm not the best swimmer in the world, I'm not even close to the top 20%, yet I love swimming. This mean I can't look for swimming tourneys despite not training at all? This means I can't support swimming tourneys and teams, because I simply don't train?
Just because someone isn't trying hard at this game, doesn't mean he can't support it.
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Because people who are actually good at the game are too busy PLAYING the game rather than watching streams or wasting time on forums.
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hey i kinda stopped playing the game but i still watch it cuz its FUN
beside being good at sc2 is just too much work for little gain, i mean when i try to play good i m not having any fun anymore =( i m just punching those keys as fast as possible. this is alot of people dont come to rts and stick to FPS.
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what's going on is that starcraft has an appeal you can only compare to sports. every other game i've played, the only people who want to watch it do so because they're good and want to compare skill. starcraft is just an awesome thing to both play and watch, and you don't have to do both to fall in love with it. there's plenty of people who play but don't like to watch other people play either. it's just a great game like that.
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For me, I can never find it fun to play a game for more than 3-4 hours in a row. I'm a good learner. And I truly think I could go competitive if that blockade was removed. But what about my life then? In my family, everyone is well-educated and have a good job. But I don't think my parents would hate me if I chose the E-sports player route.
I love E-sports. So that's why I try to contribute to E-sports in a different way. I'm in charge of all the E-sports tournaments at a local lan, And I try everytime we have a meeting to get the "head admins" to pump in more money for E-sports. And sometimes it works. Hell, even next lan will have seats for 500 + gamers and Hopefully a prize pool, (Spread across 3-4 games ) to around 20000 $.
I'm currently trying to make Starcraft II the main title of the lan. But that's not going as well as i thought ;-( . Anyway, I don't play alot. I can play maybe 1-2 hours a day. But im only Plat- Diamond. So, I'm not making a difference to the SC2 scene. yet.
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On March 20 2011 07:40 Tyree wrote:
That is good, because it shows that SC2 is easy enough to understand the basics even if you dont play it. Does that sound familiar? Yea that is how real life sports fans are too, most fans you see on stands are out of shape, bald, white guys (not that we in SC2 are that, we are long haired, ripped, handsome nerds ofc =D).
Some games that tried esports like WoW Arena could never garner interest outside of the people who actually did Arena and understood what was going on.
That's a pretty good point. It takes an incredible amount of knowledge just to understand what goes on in a basic 3v3 arena match (names and types of abilities, the class using them, the dynamics of the matchup, the context in which said abilities are used, the attempt by one player to predict the other team's actions, etc.), whereas most SC2 battles can be explained in a sentence or two. WoW is virtually impossible to cast live, with any degree of coherency, while SC2 is fairly easy to cast by comparison - mostly because there's only two players as opposed to six.
I mean, when some WoW classes have more abilities than there are units in all of SC2, you have an enormous obstacle to generating non-player interest.
Finally, there's the practical reality that mechanics are vastly more important than strategic insight in SC2. Most people who find the game interesting but don't play frequently (or at all) are probably just too busy to train their mechanics to a level where they can effectively utilize their understanding of the game, but that doesn't dilute their intellectual, abstract interest in it.
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On March 20 2011 07:38 tattoos and creep wrote:
it's a matter of entertainment. I have a friend that looks many games (GSL, TSL, etc...) and he's not EVEN playing the game. We sometimes discuss the game and all, and we actually have fun doing it. Oh and yeah im having fun in my golden league.
my question is how he could possibly enjoy the game. People here are saying how easy it is to watch sc2 and understand whats going on, when realistically its like complete opposite. What is actually going on in the minds of those players is incredibly difficult to understand. How can you appreciate and find that entertaining when its something completely unknown to someone whose never even played a single game of sc2. Maybe its just sc2 has pretty graphics and explosions are fun to watch, but is that really a reason to watch other games? Nobody is spending time watching like curling or some random sports cause they couldnt give two craps about it. I'm not watching dawn of war games or other games out there cause I dont give a shit about those games and ive never played them. For me watching a dawn of war game is something someone would have to force me to do, and still I would resist greatly. Its a waste of time for me. I hold people who dont play sc2 and watch it to a similar standard.
I dont think the comparison between sc2 players and normal sports can be made so easily. Alot of people who are watching sports at least have played it in the past, or its something extremely easily to be impressed by. Like you see a soccer game or something and a guy does those flip kicks and scores a goal, or totally fakes someone out while on the offense or whatever. Its really easy to be like holy shit thats crazy! But alot of what goes on in a game of sc2 that a person having never played the game can relate to or be impressed by. All my gamer friends who I tried to show some videos to get into sc2 found it boring cause "they sit around for 15 minutes then attack and its over", meanwhile im at the edge of my seat when ret makes a round of drones at timing x. I can understand the crazy micro tricks you can see from bw videos, it doesnt even look humanly possible. But realistically that kind of crazy shit is very rare to see even in bw games. Not to say there isnt alot of micro going on in sc2, but its usually subtle shit that people probably think the computer does automatically or something because they do it so smoothly (ie idra surrounding a group of bfh with lings). The biggest things that blow me away from sc2 games is because I put myself in their shoes and freak out when they do this or do that because its like no way that will work. I can relate it to excitement I get watching a poker game on tv and someone doing a bluff, but again its because I have an understanding of whats going on. I guess I kind of see people who dont play sc2 enjoying watching it as something like going to the jungles of Brazil and showing the tribes people phil ivey doing a crazy bluff or something. They would be like, ok who cares about this shit. Which is how I would think people who dont play sc2 would look at a sc2 game. But then I am faced with these people being the majority of the viewing audience and people who post the most about the game??? something doesnt click for me
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EPT
