EPTWhy most interest in E-sports from non-players? - Page 3
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huameng
United States1133 Posts
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NukeD
Croatia1612 Posts
On March 20 2011 07:28 Zaphid wrote: Majority of people who watch football would have trouble sprinting across the whole field, simple really. Do you really think that majority of korean BW audience actively plays the game ? If you want something to become big, you have to hit people not actively interested in it already, look at Wii, The Sims and similar stuff, they got huge because they targeted people who normally don't buy stuff like that. What really interests me a lot is WHY does everyone wanna make esports big? Im not trolling im just wondering what the personal motivation with everyone is? I certainly enjoy watching streams, gsl and all but i dont really see esports being huge as an important thing... | ||
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h41fgod
Sweden377 Posts
I started watching a few games of SC2 here and there, my computers werent up to scratch to play the game properly. But Im a pretty smart guy, and I have played a few RTS games before. It didnt take much of an effort (none really) on my part to figure out how the game worked, what worked against what, who was awesome (early Fruitdealer was a complete and utter baller). I had played the game one night with my friend. We started off so drunk, none of us remember borrowing computers to play, 7 hours later we had 30 2v2s played, placing us square in silver league. I kept watching VODs, but not playing for another two months. Switching over from husky/HD to day9/GSL. Without even playing the game, my understanding had advanced far enough to no longer appreciate the "lower" forms of commentary. SC2 is very easy to watch, even if youve never touched actual game play. Im now 294 league games deep since late november and Im trying to push myself into the diamond league. I started off absolutely terrible at both overall apm, mechanics, multitasking, macro and micro, but not game sense. | ||
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resilve
United Kingdom678 Posts
But I can still find 1-2 hours a night to chill and watch some vods of GSL of whatever stream is on. When I have a busy day, I dont feel like playing a stressful game (which is difficult unless you are mass gaming and "get" every matchup and map at that period of the meta game), but I always feel like watching some to unwind. TL;DR - Playing is stressful, watching is entertaining. | ||
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PhiliBiRD
United States2643 Posts
how? consider UFC, how many ppl who watch are into(actual participation) MMA or sparing even? 1/100? doesnt seem so bad now. | ||
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TFB
United Kingdom89 Posts
On March 20 2011 07:25 Kelethius wrote: - And just statistically speaking, the majority of people in the sc2 population are NOT diamond+. Theres no physical/mental barrier that has to be broken for anybody on Earth to make it to AT LEAST diamond, or low/mid masters. It just takes playing the game. For me, it seems to me that if people loved the game so much and loved esports so much, they couldnt possibly be in bronze/silver/gold. Given that diamond and masters represents the top 20% of the playerbase, how exactly is it possible for "everyone" to be in said top 20%? | ||
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Kelethius
Canada187 Posts
On March 20 2011 08:48 Usagi wrote: Football stadiums dont fill up with athletes you know... Frankly, after reading all the OP messages I dont think it is possible to make him understand it, looks like he is above the average understanding level to the point of neglecting valid reasons. I have a friend like that, Imposible to reason. cause if you think about it, it doesnt make any sense. Maybe your the one lacking reason. I am saying "why do people who dont play sc2 go to sc2 events and go crazy about the game" and you say, "happens in football too, therefore your argument is invalid". Your missing the point. I think its crazy on both levels, although theres a huge difference entertainment wise between watcing someone throwing a 70 yard touchdown or w/e and someone getting a 200/200 army in 14 minutes. I doubt chess has a following of people who watch it that have never played chess, and as expected, no non-chess players are parading around the internet and going to chess events trying to promote the popularity of the game and other board games. But thats what happens in sc2. I dont think you can use the football/other mainstream sport analogy with sc2. At least not in the same way you can with sc2 and chess. Maybe thats why people dont understand my argument. I'm looking at sc2 == chess. not sc2 == football (or insert any game understandable by a 4 yearold). | ||
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Kelethius
Canada187 Posts
On March 20 2011 09:01 NukeD wrote: What really interests me a lot is WHY does everyone wanna make esports big? Im not trolling im just wondering what the personal motivation with everyone is? I certainly enjoy watching streams, gsl and all but i dont really see esports being huge as an important thing... this is basically what im trying to get at... Why do people who dont play these damn games want everyone to like them?? | ||
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Centorian
United States95 Posts
I agree though, I don't think you can be reasoned with. | ||
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Kelethius
Canada187 Posts
On March 20 2011 09:06 PhiliBiRD wrote: how? consider UFC, how many ppl who watch are into(actual participation) MMA or sparing even? 1/100? doesnt seem so bad now. See my last post where the I feel the proper "sc2 to real life event" analogy is made. | ||
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Bijan
United States286 Posts
On March 20 2011 07:25 Kelethius wrote: So I play the game alot. Usually 1-3 hours a day... You do realize that 1-3 hours might be the full amount of leisure time some people have to spend in a day, right? I could play SC2 a lot more, and when I first got it I did. Then as the pro scene got better and better, I decided that my love for the game went beyond simply playing it. I loved watching the best players demonstrate the highest level of skill. Do I wish I could play more? Of course, but I also don't have the time to play and watch the GSL, TSL3, IEM, MLG, Dreamhack, Team Leagues, Show Matches, player streams, TL forums, the list goes on. Who are you to decide what constitutes as "loving the game"? To go back to the quote from the top of the post, you're assuming(or I'm assuming you're assuming) that your skill comes from your love of the game, when in fact it just stems from your amount of disposable time. Edit: This didn't address the OP fully so I'll add a bit, although I guess it should be implied. If I love watching pro SC2, it is in my best interest to see the community grow. The more people watch, the more money is involved. The more money involved, the harder the players work to get it. The harder the players work, the better quality the games become. And therein lies all the e-sports advocacy. We just want to see even better games then we're already seeing, because we love watching the pros play. | ||
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Synk
United States297 Posts
I don't know why you think people have to play the game at the highest levels to understand it(or at least think they do). Fuck man people sit and debate football for hours on end on ESPN and some of them have never even played the damn game at all. I know several people who will yell at an NFL coach until their face turns red but they never even stepped foot on a football field. My point is, you don't have to actually play anything at the highest level to appreciate the quality of it ( though I do think you might appreciate and understand it more if you did ). | ||
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Kelethius
Canada187 Posts
Sorry. | ||
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TheKanAry
United States149 Posts
On March 20 2011 09:01 NukeD wrote: What really interests me a lot is WHY does everyone wanna make esports big? Im not trolling im just wondering what the personal motivation with everyone is? I certainly enjoy watching streams, gsl and all but i dont really see esports being huge as an important thing... Partially because it's something we consider more entertaining than your average tv/movie/sport we don't like as much as other sport. And partially because we love the community, the casters are fundamentally nice people, the players aren't unreachable as opposed to professional golf players, (for example) it's a nice feeling to be connected to something in that way on a personal level. That's all I've got for now, but those are a couple of major reasons i in particular, enjoy watching professional SC more than playing it. | ||
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Gheed
United States972 Posts
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On March 20 2011 09:11 Kelethius wrote: this is basically what im trying to get at... Why do people who dont play these damn games want everyone to like them?? Because its their choice? I honestly don't see your point here. You are saying that only the x amount of the the player base is allowed to want the game to become bigger? I am in bronze, have not played a match in months and pay my monthly premium account for the GSL. Why do i want it to become big? Cause i think its cool and it would give "gamers" a better name in general. I want it to become bigger then just playing some games in front of your screen in your mothers basement with the lights turned out, thats why. | ||
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World_Ender
China40 Posts
On March 20 2011 07:25 Kelethius wrote: I always hear about the people talking about the love for esports or trying to grow esports, and just demographically speaking alot of these questions are from people from the lowest leagues, who are there not because they suck at games, but because they dont play the game. Dude. Do you realize what the term e-sports MEANS???? E-sports means electronic sports, or video games played competitively, on the level of athletic sports i.e. basketball baseball etc. So, all of those bronze noobies and people who dont play as often as you (good god man get out of the house), and yet are watching live broadcasts and games and rooting for players in the GSL... furthering e-sports without really playing... They are just like basketball or baseball fans. A HUGE part of sports, perhaps the biggest in some countries like America, is the viewing pleasure to be had for the spectator. Why must you miss this point- that starcraft CAN be on the level of athletic sports, and be appreciated as a spectator sport??? | ||
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ThaZenith
Canada3116 Posts
Watching is far, far more entertaining for me. And there isn't time to watch all the great games nowadays, and still have time to play on my own. | ||
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TeWy
France714 Posts
On March 20 2011 07:25 Kelethius wrote: At least this is what I've been noticing ALOT lately from my regular browsing forums listening to streams/podcasts on TL . Theres alot of "passion" and love for the game that gets thrown around alot on team liquid, at lans, etc. But what seems extremely odd to me, is that all the people who seemingly care the most about the game, and support it the most, are often the ones that play it the least. Let me throw out some recent things that have motivated me to post about this: - the day9 daily when he said that majority of people who watch his stream don't even play sc2 (during a recent daily last week where he was explaining how to get into sc2) -Destiny's interview where he talks about a police offer going well out of his way to find starcraft players sponsors (even though he has never played the game, I'll also assume he had no particular personal financial benefit from doing so. Realistically how is a police officer going to benefit from sponsoring a weekly show-match series, think its safe to make this assumption) - Last state of the game (the live show) first question that was asked from the crowd was about esports, and from a player who the first thing he said was him being in bronze league (see next bullet) - And just statistically speaking, the majority of people in the sc2 population are NOT diamond+. Theres no physical/mental barrier that has to be broken for anybody on Earth to make it to AT LEAST diamond, or low/mid masters. It just takes playing the game. For me, it seems to me that if people loved the game so much and loved esports so much, they couldnt possibly be in bronze/silver/gold. I really like sc2 (not gonna say I "love" the game). So I play the game alot. Usually 1-3 hours a day depending on my school schedule with exams or what not. I rarely analyze my replays, I have no friends that play the game, no practice partners, and I've never had a problem being in at least mid level of the highest league. I know this is gonna sound like "ohh hes making the thread to tell people how good he is" or something like that. The only reason I'm saying this is because I'm not special, im a shitty player (only difference between me and a bronze league player is that I play more). I'm not in love with sc2, I just enjoy the game. I would never go to a LAN event to spectate, or go to a blizcon, or do anything revolving around sc2 that is outside my bedroom. What is so crazy for me is that while I'm sitting around watching some casts or games, I always hear about the people talking about the love for esports or trying to grow esports, and just demographically speaking alot of these questions are from people from the lowest leagues, who are there not because they suck at games, but because they dont play the game. What I guess this really stems down to is perhaps something wrong on my end. I see love for the game and time spent playing it as extremely strongly positively correlated (people who love it the most, play it the most). But anytime I watch a podcast or stream, or interview or whatever type of video coverage, the people making the most effort to go out and ask questions, talk to streamers/players in person, make comments about esports and love for the game, always seem to be the lowest level players (or non-players all together). I sit around wondering why all these posts about growth of e-sports arent made from the very top players, who are effected most by it.Rarely(if ever) do you see pro players, or even players in top200 of any server commenting on growth of esports or where they want it to be (most of the threads you will see from these caliber of players is about balance, which is also something that effects them the most). I can almost say with certainty that the smallest percentage of people going to sc2 events are masters league players (based on questions asked, and my projection of personal biases). What do you guys think of this? Whats going on here? Why do people who hardly play the game(or not at all) care about it? Obviously my post is filled with generalizations,I'm probably overgeneralizing alot, but even then, the question can be asked on an individual level, what motivates that bronze league player to go out and pay to see an event, watch a game he barely plays, and ask questions to top tiered players of the game what they think about x and y about the game. Even though I'm probably exaggerating the fact that perhaps the most interest or a majority of interest comes from non-players (non players in the sense I use is intended to encompass people who rarely play 1v1's on sc2). I've not launched a single game for 1 month now, so I believe I can answer this question quite well. Obviously, there are different kind of players having stopped to play but keeping an eye on the E-sports scene. I myself used to play quite a lot during the Beta, and also after the release of the game. Topped my diamond division during the Beta, got into Master league a few days after the league was launched.... But soon after that I started to get bored of the game and was also lacking of time to train enough in order to remain at the top of my master league... There are, I believe, 3 reasons why I keep watching pro-VOD. First of, since I understand the game quite well, it has entertainment value for me, I watch them like I would watch a movie... Secondly, I like to watch pro replay since I'm hoping to see new strats, more relying on hardcore micro and harass, which would motivate me to make a come-back... Thirdly, well, guess I'm a little bit addict, I've plaid and watched a lot of War3, after that plaid and watched a lot of BW as well, now that I'm in my early 20 I'm not that enthousiastic about e-Sports anymore, nor am I that interested in video-games in general, but for some reason I keep on launching WCR, TL and watching almost all GSL VOD... I believe that it will take me a few more years before completly breaking all bounds with gaming. | ||
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Sandrosuperstar
Sweden525 Posts
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