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Greetings. Long time Zerg player, Diamond, blah blah blah.
Let's get the nasty stuff out of the way first: ZvT sucks. Zerg has paltry options compared to Terran, they cannot attack consistently until lategame, they are harassed to no end, etc. Maybe the problem lies with the units?
As we all know, Starcraft ll has the bonus damage system. Let's observe which units Zerg have that deal bonus damage, and which ones Terran have.
Zerglings - Nope
Baneling - Yes! The only unit before Tier 2 that does!
Roach - Nope
Hydralisk - Nope
Mutalisk - Nope
Queen - Nope
Corrupter - Yes! SUCCESS! It only took 2 bases and 12 minutes to get to a solely AA unit! Oh wait, but it's only vs. Massive.
Brood Lord - Nope
Ultralisk - Yes! Vs. Armored too!
So, 3/9, (fixed) and I didn't count the Infestor because it has no attack.
Marine - Nay
Marauder - Yes, and it doubles its damage.
Siege Tank - When unsieged, yes, and it attacks incredibly quickly.
Reaper - Yes, vs Light AND vs. Buildings
Hellions - Yes, and with an upgrade, deal insane amounts of damage to Light.
Ghost - Yes, and has an ability that will deal massive amounts of damage to any unit for only 25 energy.
Viking - Yes, but only in the air.
Banshee - Nay
Battlecruiser - Nay
Thor - Nay, and thankfully too. It doesn't even need it.
So, for Terran we have 6/10. Wow, that's over HALF, and three times the amount of Zerg. Also, every single unit that does have bonus damage can attack ground in some way.
Just for fun, let's do Protoss too:
Zealot - Nay
Stalker - Yes, vs. armored.
Sentry - Nay
Immortal - Yes, and it more than doubles its damage.
Pheonix - Yes
Void Ray - Yes
Carrier - Nay
Collosus - Nay
Dark Templar - Nay
Mothership - Nay
4/10 That's not bad, for its only a little higher than the units Zerg has, and three of those can attack ground armies. But thankfully this only factors into PvZ the right amount, as that matchup is very close to balanced and fun to play.
Maybe the reason Zerg has such awful early and mid-game defense is because every unit they have can be countered by a Tier 1 or Tier 2 unit from both of the other races, while providing only one unit that can counter back, and only against light units. Hell, the only + armored unit they have is Tier 3, and getting a decent number out is half the battle in itself.
Discuss.
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Pretty sure lack of bonus damage has nothing to do with balance of the game
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On August 05 2010 03:54 AyJay wrote:
Pretty sure lack of bonus damage has nothing to do with balance of the game
Yea I agree with this.
If anything the lack of bonuses on Zerg units is a better idea, given the fact that the Zerg are supposed to be an all consuming swarm and massing them is better then giving each one a specialized role. It let's each unit have a different use then a forced role.
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The point on the reaper is a little moot because you rarely use it in an army and solely for is job of harassing.
The ghost ability part works only on bio units which is the majority of units in a whole game sense but in some match-ups isn't as effective as it sounds such as a VR attack vs mech/ghost.
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What ayjay said. Zerg unit's dps is very solid against all units. Hydras have one of the highest dps in the entire game for its cost. Roaches also have very high burst damage available quite early as well. In fact, I think the lack of Zerg being based on bonus damage is very much a good thing as it allows their armies to react to pretty much everything, as opposed to being more specialized.
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Wow that's pretty crazy I never realized this.
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Why do people love to do these side by side comparisons as if they mean anything? It's so obvious they're bogus.
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You say Thor has no damage bonus... it actually does double damage vs. light.
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I'm a Zerg player and even I'm getting sick of these Zerg UP, Terran OP threads... Thanks for the info, though, OP.
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I agree with AyJay, I think the trouble that zergs is having will be overcome with more practice. Even though terran may seem really strong now they are not "overpowered" to the extend where you cannot overcome it.
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On August 05 2010 03:52 Grimjim wrote:
Zerglings - Nope
Baneling - Yes! The only unit before 1.5 that does!
Roach - Nope
Hydralisk - Nope
Mutalisk - Nope
Queen - Nope
Corrupter - Yes! SUCCESS! It only took 2 bases and 12 minutes to get to a solely AA unit! Oh wait, but it's only vs. Massive.
Brood Lord - Nope
Ultralisk - Yes! Vs. Armored too!
So, 2/8, and I didn't count the Infestor because it has no attack.
I count 3/9, not 2/8. And baneling is actually T1.5 (requires extra building on top of spawning pool)
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I think that logic is backwards -- the game is balanced so the bonus damage just makes that unit that much worse against other unit types.
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Zerg can tech switch easily. All of their units are solid combat units. Zerg is about NOT getting countered, not about countering their stuff.
Many zerg counters do exist, but within unit design not bonus dmg. IE zerglings pwn stalkers, roaches pwn zealots.
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Pretty sure lack of bonus damage has nothing to do with balance of the game
This, whats your point OP
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lol @ all the terran players getting upset over this
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On August 05 2010 04:19 Philip2110 wrote:This, whats your point OP
I think OP's point is that if you take an equal supply of some zerg unit, you can find some equal supply of terran units that will rape its face off.
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On August 05 2010 04:13 BlasiuS wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2010 03:52 Grimjim wrote:
Zerglings - Nope
Baneling - Yes! The only unit before 1.5 that does!
Roach - Nope
Hydralisk - Nope
Mutalisk - Nope
Queen - Nope
Corrupter - Yes! SUCCESS! It only took 2 bases and 12 minutes to get to a solely AA unit! Oh wait, but it's only vs. Massive.
Brood Lord - Nope
Ultralisk - Yes! Vs. Armored too!
So, 2/8, and I didn't count the Infestor because it has no attack.
I count 3/9, not 2/8. And baneling is actually T1.5 (requires extra building on top of spawning pool)
Yeah, I originally wrote out all but the Baneling, then stuck it in once I remembered it >_>
So it is 3/9. My apologies.
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On August 05 2010 04:28 JinNJuice wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2010 04:19 Philip2110 wrote:
Pretty sure lack of bonus damage has nothing to do with balance of the game
This, whats your point OP I think OP's point is that if you take an equal supply of some zerg unit, you can find some equal supply of terran units that will rape its face off.
So you play rock-paper-scissors and get the unit that counters the terran's unit. :|
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On August 05 2010 04:19 Philip2110 wrote:This, whats your point OP
Oh, lack of bonus damage has nothing to do with the balance?
Then let's take it all out then. Let's see how that changes things.
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Anyone else feel like people are just now starting to cry over "issues" that have been in the game for months now. I do not personally feel like the +damage argument is valid. Yes it means the terran units are able to be more specialized but as a random diamond player i also feel that it gives zerg more consistency. I personally rather have something do 6 damage than 4+3armored, since that constant 6 is more applicable in all situations.
Ill give the OP that units like the baneling, immortal, and hellion that gain nearly double its damage in the +damage part might need to be revisted.
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EPT
