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[G] First Overview of HotS Zerg

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-04 07:20:57
March 13 2013 18:08 GMT
#1
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    i      Introduction .........................................................................................................................................................................................
    1.0      Zerg versus Terran .......................................................................................................................................................................
      1.1      The Builds ..........................................................................................................................................................
      1.2      Detailed Explanation of the Build ................................................................................................................
      1.3      Dealing with the Early Game ........................................................................................................................
      1.4      Mid Game Strategies ......................................................................................................................................
      1.5      Late Game Transitions: Roach/Ling/Bane/Swarmhost into Ultra/Broodlord ..................................
      1.6      Replays/Vods ....................................................................................................................................................
    2.0      Zerg versus Zerg ..........................................................................................................................................................................
      2.1      The Builds ..........................................................................................................................................................
      2.2      Detailed Explanation of the Build ................................................................................................................
      2.3      Mutalisk Play ....................................................................................................................................................
      2.4      Replays/Vods ....................................................................................................................................................
    3.0      Zerg versus Protoss ....................................................................................................................................................................
      3.1      The Build .............................................................................................................................................................
      3.2      Detailed Explanation of the Build ................................................................................................................
      3.3      Utilizing the Swarmhost ................................................................................................................................
      3.4      Using Mutalisks ................................................................................................................................................
      3.5      Roach/Hydra Composition ............................................................................................................................
      3.6      The Late Game .................................................................................................................................................
      3.7      Replays/Vods ....................................................................................................................................................

Introduction
    Hello everyone. We are here with a set of guides for the Heart of the Swarm StarCraft 2 expansion. It has been quite a while since I last wrote a guide, but with the Heart of the Swarm just released, now is the perfect time for an overview of Zerg in HotS. This guide will feature all the match-ups (Zerg vs Protoss, Zerg vs Terran, Zerg vs Zerg) with a general overview of the early, mid and late game in each. We will be going over the use of all the new units, and how to utilize them the best in the current Meta-Game.

    There is a more detailed late game zvp guide located here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=408919

Zerg versus Terran Top
    This Zerg vs Terran section will be going over almost every area of the match-up, including areas such as the early game reaper harass, as well as mid game unit compositions, and effectively using the units in the Late Game. The unit compositions this section will feature include roach/zergling/baneling/swarmhost, and mutalisk/ling/bane into ultra. The guide will also cover dealing with drops, mech, late game unit compositions and match-up specific timings.

The Builds
    Versus a gas Opening from Terran
    • 15 hatch
    • 16 pool
    • 16 gas
    • 100 gas – pull drones off gas and get ling speed
    • 6:30 – take your third
    • 6:30 – put guys back on gas
    • 6:45 – get second gas
    • 7:00 – get third gas
    • 7:15 – roach warren + double evo
    • 7:15 – 7:30 – get fourth gas
    • Start +1 melee and carapace
    • Next 100 gas goes to lair
    • Get baneling nest while going lair
    • Lair finishes – get either an infestation pit or spire (will be explained below)

    Versus a no gas Opening from Terran
    • 15 hatch
    • 16 pool
    • 4 queens
    • 36 – take third base
    • 6:00 – double gas
    • 7:00 – get third gas
    • 7:15 – roach warren + double evo
    • 7:15 – 7:30 – get fourth gas
    • Start +1 melee and carapace
    • Next 100 gas goes to lair
    • Get baneling nest while going lair
    • Lair finishes – get either an infestation pit or spire (will be explained below)

Detailed Explanation of the Build
    The reason for opening gas against a Terran who opened gas is for the reason that most Terran's will go for reapers which are very powerful in HotS. If Zerg doesn't get fast zergling speed, and the Terran makes 3-4 reapers, Zerg can take a lot more damage than necessary, and will possibly start losing queens as well. Zerg requires speedlings to gain map control. If a Zerg attempts to respond with roaches, his economy will take a big blow, as you need them extremely fast. This also gives map control to the Terran for a very long time and Terran could potentially catch you by a complete surprise with an all-in since you have 0 map control. Speedlings allow Zerg to get back map control and be more aware of those timings.

    The part of the build where you take workers off gas is because you want more minerals, and there is no reason to mine gas when your goal should be droning. The reaper opening does a great job at delaying creep spread and droning, while Terran keeps his SCV production up while expanding + teching. As a Zerg, you need to be droning extremely hard once you gain back map control.

    If Terran goes gas, we advise you only get three queens, and only one of those for creep spread. If Terran gets no gas, you should do the standard four queens build with two for creep spread.

    In a game facing reapers, your lair will be later than normal. This is perfectly fine as you have to remember that the Terran can’t possibly be doing a 8 minute marine/marauder/hellbat timing if he is opening with reapers. Zergs also have to remember the Terran's natural is going to be a bit later then normal as well.

    The +1 melee and carapace is just a preference on upgrades. If you know he is going mech 100%, then get ranged. Since Zerg's normally don’t know 100% if the Terran is going mech or bio, getting melee/carapace is safest bet. If you scout mech, get ranged upgrades immediately and then go for the melee upgrades later on.

    The baneling nest is just in-case the Terran tries a bio + hellbat timing or any sort of timing that may catch you by surprise. Banelings are a very great unit against timings you aren’t expecting.

    The infestation pit or spire decision simply depends on what you prefer to do as a Zerg player. If you are going to go infestors get a infestation pit, if you are going mutalisks get a spire. This is very simple.

Dealing with the Early Game
    Reaper Harassment
    The best way to defend against early reapers is to get speedlings out as fast as possible. Defending until that point can be difficult if the Terran is using reapers aggressively, letting them heal, and then poking in again immediately. What the Zerg should do is once the reaper enters your base and starts shooting drones is to pull a few drones to chase it and pull any drone that is shot twice away as soon as you see it. Do this until lings come out, and then have your lings chase until the queens pop out. Once the queens come out, the Zerg should be relatively safe for the most part. If Terran makes 3-4 reapers, the harassment will still be super strong and you need to make more lings so that he doesn’t kill your lings, then kill queens and then the drones.

    Now once your speedlings are out, you should be able to kill them or at the very least push the Terran back to his base since speedlings are faster then reapers. Use this time to maintain map control and keep an eye on any transition if possible. A lot of Terrans transition into some widow mines, so make sure to poke at the natural, but with only one ling at a time so that if the Terran does have widow mines, you won’t lose more than one ling.

    Normally Zerg can do a little harassment and get a couple SCV kills with a speedling counter if the Terran opens up with three-four reapers. If he opens up with only one reaper, the odds are that he is going to have hellions out fairly fast, so be wary of that as well.

    Once speedlings are out and you have map control, it should be possible to take the third expansion with no problem and transition into a normal mid-game.

    1/1/1 Widow Mine Drops
    The best response to widow mine drops is to make sure to have a spore crawler out as soon as possible. Make sure to pull workers off the worker line and let a ling detonate it to continue mining again as soon as possible.

    If Zerg does not have spores when this drop comes, make a spore and detonate the mines as fast as possible, and get back to mining right away. Make sure to pull workers before the mine is reloaded. Try to keep a good eye on the timer and pull the workers, or wait until the spore crawler is about done to pull. It's not efficient to waste too much mining time, but it's also not efficient to lose every drone to a widow mine as well. Make a judgement call on whether drones should be pulled or not.

    Once the spore crawler(s) finishes, the Zerg should be able to kill the mines and not have to worry about the drops anymore. If this drop does no damage, Zerg is going to be insanely far ahead as the Terran can’t do a fast timing after this. This particular strategy has to do damage or Terran can be in a very bad position.

    Hellbat drops aren’t going to be happening anymore with the 1/1/1 due to the fact that Terrans can’t start hellbats until an armory is finished, or they have to wait until the upgrade finishes to transform already made hellions into hellbats. This hellbat drop has not been viable for a while, and should not be the primary area of concern for a Zerg player.

    Bio + Hellbat Pushes
    Zerg should be able to see this coming if they are actively scouting with overlords, sacrificing zerglings, and just scouting in general. This bio + hellbat push is powerful if Zerg doesn't have the proper units. If the Zerg only has ling/bane, it can be hard to deal with this push; however, roach/ling/bane can crush this push as long as the Zerg prepared in time.

    If the Zerg sees this push, they need to make to not over-drone when this push comes. Zerg needs a decent amount of roaches, lings, and banelings to hold this push. Terran will push with stim and 4-8 hellbats (it varies depending on the Terran player). If you have to lose the third base, it is fine to just sack it, as this is a push where Zerg wants to make sure they can hold, and losing the third base won't be game ending.

    Once the Zerg holds this push, he can either drone and take a fourth base, or try to counter with a roach/ling/baneling attack. Normally the Terran player shouldn't have any tanks, and this attack does need to do damage. It is a strong two base push, but if it fails and gets crushed, Zerg is far very far ahead.

Mid Game Strategies
    Dealing with Drop Play
    Drop play is a lot stronger in HotS due to the medivac speed boost. These drops make going non-mutalisk play a lot harder just because of how fast the medivacs can speed into the player's base. Dealing with these drops requires good multi-tasking and static defense.

    Once the Zerg plans on moving out to be aggressive, you need some way to defend against drops, and that way is static defense. The Zerg should be placing a few spines as well as at least one spore at each base, so that drops don't devastate the Zerg player. Also, keeping a small ling/bane group near each hatchery is a good idea to deflect drops as well, so that the Zerg doesn't have to pull his army to deal with it. This is the best way to deal with drops once the Zerg is ready to be aggressive or if the Terran player is going to push while doing two-three drops at once. This way, the Zerg can defend the push and deflect drop play without taking to much damage, compared to having no static defense and not leaving any ling/baneling behind, which would result in a ton of damage.

    Overlord placement is very important as well. The Zerg should have overlord speed at some point and once that finishes, make sure to spread out the overlords on the map. The sooner the Zerg sees a dropship coming, the longer he has to react to it. That way, the Zerg can place the defense they need, and can still move out or deal with a push rather then seeing the drop come out of nowhere, resulting in a mad scramble to deal with it.

    Starting to spread out overlords too early is the reason Terran players make vikings early nowadays, so it is better to wait for speed to finish before sending too many out. Vikings will supply cap the Zerg hard if he is sending out all the overlords across the map, which is why waiting until speed's done is better. This way the Zerg won't lose all his overlords and can spread them out again after dealing with the viking.

    Bio + widow mine combination

    The bio + widow mine combination is the strongest form of bio in terms of tvz. It is superior to tanks in the fact that widow mines are super mobile and once drilling claws is upgraded they burrow in 1 second. This makes the bio + widow mine a very strong and hard to engage composition. The best way to deal with it is to go muta/ling/bane with some roaches and send in small packs of lings to set the mines off. Instead of sending only 1 ling, zerg needs to be sending 4-5 to detonate some mines.

    A good terran will have his bio with his widow mines so that they can prevent 1 ling and sometimes even 5 lings from detonating a mine. A terran who puts widow mines down and then walks away is very easy to deal with, when they keep their bio next to it, it's a lot harder to engage and requires very good unit control from the zerg. Flanking the terran army is almost a must so that widow mines don't hit all the zergs units. If the zerg can hit from 2 different angles widow mine shots shouldn't be as devastating as they would if the zerg attacks in one direction. If the zerg has roaches sending in a roach with a couple lings is a sure way to force a detonation off a mine or 2.

    Swarmhosts are a very strong unit verse bio + widow mine, but if you go that composition the zerg needs to be prepared for drop play. Drop play is something that can punish this composition if the zerg isn't prepared for drops he can die. Another composition that can be good is going muta/ling/bane into swarmhost which allows the zerg to deal with drops much, much easier and then swarmhosts deal with widow mines very good due to the locusts being strong and tanking a few shots.

    There are a couple replays show casing the muta/ling/bane -> swarmhost transition and how it deals with bio + widow mine so feel free to download those to see it in action.

    Mutalisk/Ling/Baneling into Ultra
    The mutalisk has changed a lot in Heart of the Swarm. Mutalisks have seen a notable speed increase as well as much higher health regeneration. If mutalisks take a ton of damage, and they all go to one health, they will all be fully healed in roughly 120 seconds. Before, it took a lot longer to regenerate this health.

    If Zerg is going to go heavy with mutalisks, an overseer is a must when doing harassment. If the Zerg doesn't bring a overseer, two-three widow mines could really ruin your day. Two-three widow mines will kill most, if not all of the mutas, especially if they are clumped and focusing down something. This can be a game ending scenario if it happens, and either way Terran would be way ahead.

    The Zerg wants to get about 16-20 mutalisks out before starting hive tech. Make sure to have overlords spread out as there is no way Terran can kill overlords that are looking for drops as the Zerg should have complete map control with his mutalisks.

    Try not to attack from one angle when utilizing this composition. Setting up flanks is very powerful and makes it so that you can hit the Terran army from multiple angles, or even sandwich it so that he can’t even run away, resulting in his army just melting.

    It is a lot stronger to perform flanks than it is to just go in from one direction, especially if there are siege tanks. If Zerg holds the Terran's push or if he hasn’t yet pushed, ultralisks should be out fairly soon, and the Zerg should be transitioning into ultralisks/ling/bane/infestor. Do not throw away mutalisks; if you can keep them alive, it makes dealing with drop play much easier.

    Zerg will eventually want to have a greater spire so that they can tech switch to brood lords, then back to ultras to counter when Terran tries to do their own counter of the brood lord army.

    Another thing to note is that Zerg should not be doing this style if scouting mech. This will get crushed by mech, so if Zerg starts off with mutalisks against mech, DO NOT continue into heavy mutalisks.

    Fighting Mech
    Fighting mech can be quite hard as it is difficult to engage them on their own turf. Normally, Zerg will want to try and contain the meching player to as few bases for as long as possible while taking expansions and starving the Terran of resources.

    The best way Zergs have found to fight mech is to get swarm hosts out, about 12-15 and have them assaulting the Terran bases. Behind this, Zerg should have roach/hydra, and once hive finishes Zerg should start adding in the vipers. Swarm hosts are very powerful against mech as they make the mech push a bit slower, delaying the push quite a bit with locusts. It also makes engaging the Terran mech ball a little bit easier since they can tank damage pretty well as well as dish it back.

    Zerg should be able to keep a nice contain until vipers get out. If Terran begins to push, do not keep your swarm hosts in the same spot. Move them back a bit and let out a wave of locusts while waiting for viper energy so that you can blinding cloud or abduct the units. Do not rush any engagement; rather, delay it for as long as possible. If you find yourself having no choice but to engage, flank and try to time your attack with the locusts coming out. If Zerg can hit from three different angles with locusts at the same time, he should be able to beat back any Terran push with no problems.

    Zergs will want spines and a spore at each base to deal with hellion/hellbat/widow mine drops. The spore is so you have detection, and the spines are to kill the drops.

    The end game army that Zerg wants is ultralisks/hydra/ling/swarm host/viper. Make sure to have vipers behind hydras unless you are going to cast blinding cloud. You will probably lose your vipers when doing this, which is ok, as this is going to happen no matter what. Terrans are make vikings to counter vipers, but as long as the Zerg player can get blinding clouds down on the Terran army and engage, he can just remake them later.

    Again, try flanking maneuvers. By keeping swarm hosts alive and with blinding cloud + hydra/ultra/swarmhost, the Zerg should be able to take on any Terran ground army head on. You may not kill it all, but Zerg should have a good enough economy to re-max fast. At worst, if Zerg engages properly, you should kill most of the army, and at best the whole army. Zerg can wait for reinforcements before pushing or keeping the contain as well.

    A Zerg player's goal against mech is to starve the Terran, and make sure he can’t get a ton of expansions. Eventually Terran will starve and you will win with a much better economy. This can lead to some long games, but patience is very key against mech, and Zerg should be taking the whole map so the Terran will have to attack or he will lose due to the economic difference.

    There are replays that show case this so make sure to check those out if you are skeptical about it!

Late Game Transitions: Roach/Ling/Bane/Swarmhost into Ultra/Broodlord
    Going for roach/ling/baneling/swarm host is a very great way to play the mid game, while you tech and get either your intended path of ultralisks or broodlords out.

    When using this composition, make sure you are starting off with roach/ling/bane. Do not rush to swarm hosts and do not start making them as soon as lair finishes. If Zerg does not have many ling/bane or roaches, and rushes straight to swarm hosts, drop play will absolutely dominate him. A Zerg just can’t deal with drops, and if a Terran sees that you are rushing for swarm hosts, he will drop you at 3 places at once, and you will not be able to deal with them without taking immense damage, and it’s game over at that point anyway. With roach/ling/bane first, a Zerg can deal with drops easily and then they will have a very strong unit composition for the mid-game.

    What makes this composition surprisingly powerful whether Terran goes pure bio, bio + tanks, bio + widow mines, etc, is that it deals with each of those compositions very well. The strength of this composition is that it is very great for defensive play. It makes holding pre-hive timings a lot easier since locusts can do pretty well against the bio, and it takes damage from tanks nicely.

    This makes it a bit easier to engage a Terran army, and to slow down a push as well. Since locusts are free, there is no reason not to have them constantly going somewhere. If the Zerg sees a Terran pushing, he should throw down some locusts, then push the swarm hosts back so that the Terran can’t just stim and kill them. Once Zerg is going to engage his army, make sure to flank and attack when the locusts are attacking. Siege tanks will fire at them and will allow your roach/ling/bane to fight the Terran's army without taking as much tank fire.

    Then after you hold any push Terran does, the Zerg can get ultralisks out, or go with broodlords again. Going broodlords first can be nice as it will force the Terran to start making vikings and then Zerg can transition into ultralisk/ling/bane/infestor. Also, Zerg should keep swarm hosts alive as long as possible. They will be useful even late game as Zerg can have them assault a different base while you use your main army to attack somewhere else. Eventualy, Zerg needs infestors to prevent a bionic army from kiting ultralisks all day long. In addition, they are also a good way to take out medivacs.

    This is a much stronger defensive unit composition then aggressive. The reason that is, is the fact that swarm hosts are slow and a stimmed bio force will catch them in retreat if Zerg doesn't have a strong enough army to take his head on. If as a Zerg, you are going to be aggressive, make absolutely sure that your army can at least take out most of his army in a fight, and your swarm hosts will be able to get away. Getting caught out of position or losing the swarm hosts can be game ending, so keep that in mind.

    Muta/ling/bane/swarmhost into hive

    This is a style I started doing on hots release and is very solid versus bio + widow mine. The past week I have seen korean zergs starting to do this style as well (I know their not copying me).

    So the zerg should open up like typical ling/bane/muta. This style will play out just like normal muta/ling/baneling and the zerg should not start adding in swarmhosts until the zerg has 14-16 mutalisks, 2/2 melee and carapace and hive tech. The transition into swarmhosts is to start after this. So once the zerg starts hive the zerg should be adding in 10 swarmhosts. If the zerg uses the swarmhosts correctly by not being overly aggressive with them and put a good distance back, the zerg should hold any bio + widow mine push easily.

    The zerg should have mutalisks to deal with any drop play and some ling/bane at a couple bases so that if the mutalisks are out of position the drop can still be dealt with, with minimal damage. Once the zerg has 10 swarmhosts they should be using it to supplement the army and have the locusts draw the fire from widow mines. The zerg can also use them to kill them if they have proper overseer placement.

    Now once hive finishes the zerg should be teching to either broodlords or ultralisks. Both work great and going ultra then broodlord then back to ultralisk is a great thing to do. The end game composition is going to be ultra/ling/bane/swarmhost/infestor and the zerg can add in vipers later. If the zerg loses swarmhosts they do not have to remake them, but you shouldn't lose them unless they are out of position so try to avoid that. This is very strong versus the bio widow mine and the zerg can decide not to do this if the zerg is facing marine/tank.

    There are replays that show case this as well.

Replays and VODs
[image loading] Blade vs Psych on Cloud Kingdom Roach/Ling/Bane/Swarmhost into Ultralisk.
Blade vs Korean Terran Belshir VestigeMuta/ling/bane/swarmhost into Ultralisk.
zvt replays 1

Zerg versus Zerg Top
    Zerg versus Zerg is played differently in HotS than it is in Wings of Liberty. We will be explaining mostly about mutalisks, and how to most effectively use them as they are the primary unit in HotS ZvZ. We will go over situations such as muta vs muta, and muta vs roach/hydra/infestor.

The Builds
    Muta Build: 15 Pool Version
    • 15 - pool
    • 16 - hatch
    • 16 - gas
    • 15 - overlord
    • First 100 gas – metabolic boost (speedlings)
    • Second 50 gas – baneling nest
    • 25 – overlord
    • 5:30 – spine crawler
    • 5:50 – 2nd and 3rd gas
    • 6:00 – lair
    • 6:15 – 4th gas
    • Lair finishes – spire
    • Start third base after spire
    • Spire finishes - +1 carapace(+1 attack if no muta from other zerg)

    Muta Build: 15 Hatch Version
    • 15 - hatch
    • 16 - pool
    • 17 - gas
    • 16 - overlord
    • First 100 gas – metabolic boost (speedlings)
    • Second 50 gas – baneling nest
    • 5:30 – spine crawler
    • 5:50 – 2nd and 3rd gas
    • 6:00 – lair
    • 6:15 – 4th gas
    • Lair finishes – spire
    • Start third base after spire
    • Spire finishes - +1 carapace(+1 attack if no muta from other zerg)

Detailed Explanation of the Build
    When executing a mutalisk build, Zerg players should start the lair fairly fast, which is the most optimal way as seen from Idra in multiple games we have observed. This build allows mutalisks to come out fairly fast and does not put you behind economically.

    Zergs will often switch up the order of the speedling upgrade/baneling nest. The reason for this is that if the Zerg doesn't intend on being aggressive with early lings, getting a baneling nest first is going to make you absolutely safe against a speedling all-in. If the other Zerg is intending on speedling all-inning as soon as his speed finishes, you will have banelings, and unless there is bad micro, you should hold this no problem and come out very far ahead. On the other hand, if you intend on being aggressive, it is best to get metabolic boost first. If you intend on being defensive, we don’t see a downside to baneling nest first, but this is of course up to you.

    The spine crawler is something Zerg players don’t have to do in ZvZ, but it’s safer and allows them to be safer, and holds off early aggression easier than not getting the spine. Not getting the spine is just a way of being greedier than the other Zerg player.

    After you start your third, you should be mass producing lings, while either pressuring the other Zerg;s third base, or defending your own third base against his ling/bane pressure to try and cancel the third.

Mutalisk Play
    Mutalisk versus Mutalisk
    This is a very common scenario in HotS ZvZ right now, and it is the biggest difference between WoL and HotS ZvZ. In HotS, this is standard and something you should definitely know how to execute. With the mutalisk speed buff, health regeneration, and the infestor nerf, mutalisks are very dominant in this match-up.

    Playing in a mutalisk war requires good multi-tasking and mechanics in general. You don’t want to miss making mutalisks, and should be doing ling run-bys while mutalisks hit another location.

    Keeping up on injects is very important while multitasking ling runbys at the natural + third of the other Zerg; hitting another location with mutalisks is very good and can make some Zerg players just fall apart as this is a very micro intensive unit composition. Do not engage in a mutalisk fight unless you know you will win. The aggressive Zerg player should not engage the defending Zerg player's mutalisks at his third unless the aggressive Zerg has a huge mutalisk advantage due to an earlier engagement.

    Transitioning out of mutalisk vs mutalisk will make the Zerg very vulnerable for a short timing. If the opponent happens to notice that the Zerg is trying to transition into infestors, and doesn’t have as many mutalisks, he should push for the kill, or do immense damage while he is transitioning.

    It wouldn't be recommended to transition out of mutalisks, but if the other player transitions and you don’t act on it you could be in trouble. Pay very close attention to the other player's mutalisk count, and if the Zerg starts falling quiet a bit behind this, it should be a huge indicator that the other player is trying to transition into some other tech.

    Taking a fourth base is really based on when the Zerg has enough economy, or if he has a good lead from an earlier mutalisk engagement. If you are in the position of being in a good lead, take a fourth. It is hard to engage at a Zerg third, as normally they will have a spore or two+ queen support, and unless you have a huge mutalisk lead, this isn’t safe to fight into.

    The best ways to defend against multiple ling run bys is to make a couple banes at the third + natural base. Also, a spine or two at each base will help a lot against any ling run-bys.

    Mutalisk versus Roach/Hydra/Infestor
    This isn’t as common in Heart of the Swarm, but it will happen every once in awhile. There are two things that can be done when going mutalisks against a roach/hydra/infestor composition. One of the options is going heavy muta/ling/bane into ultralisks. This is a very strong option because if the roach/hydra/infestor player attacks too late, your ultralisks will be out, but if he attacks before, the muta player needs to do flanking maneuvers and engage the roach/hydra/infestor composition when they hit flanks.

    When facing roach/hydra/infestor, the mutalisk player should be making some spines so that when the fight does happen, it’ll be a lot easier to defend than engaging without spine support. When utilizing this style of play, make about 16 mutalisks before starting hive.

    The second the mutalisk player see's no mutalisks, he should make two evo chambers and start +1 carapace and melee upgrades. Then eventually add in infestors with the ultra/ling/bane composition as well. If you get this composition after defending a roach/hydra/infestor attack, as long as you don’t make a blunder, you will win with the better unit composition.

    The other option that the mutalisk player can do is transition into a roach/hydra/infestor composition himself. This is really up to the Zerg player on how he wants to fight against a player not going mutalisks. Same thing as before: once the Zerg sees no mutalisks from the other Zerg, just get two evolution chambers, and if you're going roach/hydra/infestor get +1 ranged/carapace instead of +1 melee/carapace.

    Defending Roach/Ling/Baneling Attacks
    A common attack that Zerg will face when opening mutalisks is a roach/ling/bane attack that will hit before mutalisks pop an attack that can straight up kill you if you don't see it coming. If the Zerg sees this timing coming, he needs to be making a ton of spine crawlers, and spreading them out so that banelings will not kill all of them when they detonate. Spreading them out is a must or making so many spines will not matter.

    To spot this timing, Zerg should always be sending in speedlings to the opponent's base. Sending in three spread out speedlings at a time will garner you scouting information, for example, a ton of lings, some roaches, spine crawlers, evo chambers, etc. Sometimes, getting inside the main base will even allow you to see everything. There is no downside to doing this, and you have a much better chance of seeing this timing than waiting until he moves out.

    There should be an overlord checking in on the other Zerg player's drone count and gas timings. If lings fail to get information and you see no third and fourth gas and a low drone count, that is a sign of an attack incoming. This indicates some sort of timing is about to hit and you should be putting down spines if you notice it. Especially, if you notice that you have a lot more drones than your opponent, that is a huge sign that the other Zerg will hit a timing.

    If you get enough spine crawlers down and spread out, you should hold no problem. If your spires finishes, you will be insanely far ahead. The roach/ling/bane player will not have a lair finished and will be incredibly behind if he didn't do any damage. After holding this push, take the third base, drone it up, and use mutalisks for map control to deny the other Zerg's third for as long as possible. Then kill him with either a roach timing or muta/ling/bane.

Replays
    [image loading]
zvz replays 1
zerg verse zerg muta play


Zerg versus Protoss Top
    This is the Zerg vs Protoss section of our Heart of the Swarm Zerg guide. This section will be most beneficial if you already know the basic ZvP openings. If you do not know the standard fast three base vs forge FE, watch the replays which will showcase these openings for you to learn. Some of the things discussed in this section will be swarm hosts, mutalisks, roach/hydra and the best ways to use those compositions as well as transitioning into them.

The Build
  • 6:10 – 2 gases
  • 6:30 – 7 minutes – a roach warren (this is up to you on when to get this)
  • 7 minutes – evo chamber (start +1 range)
  • 7:00 – get 3rd gas
  • 7:20 to 7:30 – start lair (this will be explained later)
  • 8:00 – get 4’th gas
  • Lair finishes – infestation pit and hydralisk (this will be explained later)
  • 9:00 – 5’th and 6’th gas

Detailed Explanation of the Build
    It is normal to start a fast lair around 7:20 - 7:30 unless a stargate opening is scouted. If a stargate is scouted, it is fine to delay the lair to 7:30 or later. If a robotics bay is spotted, the Zerg should not start the lair any later than 7:20. This is for the simple reason that there is a possibility the Protoss can immortal all-in. The swarm host can come out in time for the immortal all-in, and this makes beating the immortal all-in a lot easier than with any other unit. We have replays show casing this vs the immortal all-in, and it is much easier to beat it than going pure roach/ling. If you get the lair much later then 7:20-7:30, you will probably not get swarm hosts in time.

    The reasoning behind going for a infestation pit and hydra den at the same time is that hydralisks, in combination with swarm hosts are very strong; however, you also need some anti-air against stargate play which is what makes the hydralisks a smart choice. If the Protoss player goes for stargate play, and the Zerg goes swarm hosts first and then becomes aggressive with them, the Protoss can actually shut them down quite hard once detection hits the field. This will make the swarm host useless until the Zerg has his own anti-air on the field. Hydralisks aren't too expensive, and they build very fast. After you get these out, you can start making swarm hosts, and start to become aggressive while waiting for your spire to finish.

    When your +1 carapace is almost done, get a 2nd evolution chamber, and for ranged upgrades, upgrading +2 carapace and +1 ranged going at the same time. Just keep those upgrades going, and you can add a 3rd evolution chamber if you want to do melee as well. This is up to you.

    If you need any more clarification just ask and we will answer!

Reacting to gate expand
    An old opening that has become popular again is the gateway expand. The gateway expand is something that can put on pressure while teching and can punish fast 3 base no gas play.

    When a zerg notices they are facing gateway expansion the zerg player should get a gas asap. This is very, very important. The faster the zerg player gets metabolic boost upgraded the faster lings can move around the map and kill hidden probes or pylons. This is very important because one of the most common things a protoss player does when gateway expanding is to do a 4 gate pressure to try and kill the third base. If the protoss player succeeds this puts the zerg player behind as that third is now delayed and the protoss player is going to be ahead economically. If the zerg defends it without losing the third or take any economic damage, then the zerg player is going to be ahead.

    The hard part for the zerg player is knowing if the protoss player is going to do this 4-5 gate pressure or just tech and not do this. This is important information because if zerg makes units, but the protoss isn't doing the 4-5 gate pressure then the zerg's economy is going to be worse then protoss due to making useless units, but if the zerg doesn't make units and the protoss does do 4-5 gate pressure this can be game ending.

    Something the zerg player should be doing is have control of the watch towers, have overlords in the common pylon locations and have some lings scouting around everywhere for hidden pylons. While doing this the zerg should be droning the whole time until the zerg sees the protoss move out with the army or the zerg sees pylons going down. Zerg players should be throwing down a roach warren versus gateway expand at about 5:45 - 6 minutes. This is a must as if the protoss player does do a heavy 4-5 gate attack at 6:15, It is very hard to defend this attack with pure speedling unless the zerg player is making them blindly before hand or has static defense. Roach/ling is the better option versus this kind of attack and skipping the roach warren is playing with fire.

    Now sacrificing an overlord is very useful versus this opening, sacrificing the overlord at about 5:45-6 minutes is perfect to see tech going up. If zerg doesn't see anything, no stargate, robo, etc then the zerg player should put 1 spore at each base at 6:30-6:45. This is because 99% of the time if the protoss isn't doing a fast 4-5 gate pressure it's going to be stargate or DT. There is the chance of just a robo opener with no stargate/dt, but this isn't very common and this is the best way to proceed if the zerg doesn't scout anything.

    If the protoss player doesn't do any sort of early gateway pressure then play the zvp as you normally would.
    Utilizing the Swarmhost
    The swarm host is a new unit in Heart of the Swarm, and one many players have not used a lot. This unit is very powerful if used correctly in the Zerg versus Protoss match up. This section of the guide will explain how to use swarm hosts in the most efficient way, and how to beat the dreaded immortal all-in. Getting swarm hosts is by far the easiest way to beat a player going for the immortal all-in, so if you are struggling against that in WoL and don't know how to defeat it in HotS, this section will be of great use to you.

    The swarmhost as a unit is designed to control space and be able to contain your opponent. This unit works very well in it's role, and can defend very well. They do require a fair amount of babysitting though, as you do not want to leave them to siege and let the opponent's army get on top of them with a observer.

    If your opponents army is starting to move up to the swarmhosts, unburrow and retreat backwards. The Zerg does not want to let his army rest on top because if he hasfour4 colossi, a ton of stalkers and sentries, those swarm hosts are dead and this is not what you want. When retreating, once you can let loose another wave of locusts, you should burrow, then unburrow, and repeat the process as you run away. Sometimes you can go back to where you were as your opponent retreats back to his base.

    The best transition when opening swarmhosts is to add corruptors/overseers to the composition. This makes the Zerg army extremely deadly. and it also allows you to snipe obs, and attack colossi. If he starts adding in voidrays, you will have hydralisks to deal with that too.

    Using the Swarm host to Defend the Immortal All-in
    If you follow this build properly, you should be getting swarm hosts out as the Protoss starts moving out. When Zerg sees Protoss moving out, he should have ling support and will be able to bait out force fields with that, or at least slow the push down. Every second you get by delaying the Protoss with zergling support, there could be one extra swarmhost out on the field, which is very useful. Don't lose all the zerglings, and you should be doing well.

    Once swarm hosts are out, Zerg should be making sure they're at the right location. For example, if the Zerg player had them at the third, the Protoss could just walk into the natural, forcefields the swarmhosts out, and kill the natural.

    Zerg should be using the swarm hosts to keep tabs on where the Protoss player is trying to attack. Most Protoss will try their best not to engage in the area with swarmhosts, so always be ready to uproot the swarm hosts and move to a different position. For the engagement against a immortal all-in, make sure to use your zerglings efficiently.

    Utilizing the Swarm host in a Standard Macro Game
    This section will focus primarily on utilizing swarm hosts throughout a standard macro game. This can be defined as when both players are on three base economies, and there are no two base all-ins. The three base macro stage is when Zerg can become quite aggressive towards the Protoss. You can transition from mutalisks into swarm hosts (14-16 mutalisks then into a swarm host transition can be very powerful). Another option is just going pure swarm hosts without mutalisks. Zerg should make about 8-10 swarmhosts and then move out (with ling support). With the locust upgrade, you will want to assault the third base.

    Once the Zerg player gets about 10-13 swarmhosts out, it is time to start adding in corruptors and overseers. At this point, Zerg should be able to send locusts for a while, and Protoss will need a substantial colossi army to deal with this. While the Protoss is acquiring this colossi force to deal with the swarm hosts, Zerg should be mass expanding. Take a fourth, even a fifth or sixth if you are able to safely defend against blink stalkers and drops. The corruptors should be used to snipe observers, colossi, and scout the Protoss army. Do not let them idle waiting for the Protoss to make a move. Look for opportunities to create damage towards their army. If Protoss is pushing out, try to constantly delay them with locusts, and if you need to engage, do it while a new wave of locusts are coming out. The point of swarm hosts in the ZvP match-up is primarily to buy time for the Zerg late game composition.

    Facing Stargate Play
    When going swarm hosts against Protoss, do not start making them immediately if you see stargate play. This is fairly self explanatory, as void rays and phoenixes can just snipe swarm hosts easily. First off, you will need some anti-air out before getting swarm hosts onto the field. This is very simple to deal with though, as you just need to get a hydralisk den to produce around fifteen hydralisks if the Protoss goes the standard five-six phoenix opening. Against void rays/oracles, ten hydras will suffice. Once these hydras are out, start making those swarm hosts, and push once there are around six-seven. At this point, the Zerg should be stopping production of swarm hosts and starting the production of corruptors. When going hydras before corruptors, still remember to get overseers for observer sniping. They are not as good at it as corruptors, but the Protoss might not anticipate it as much. The overall army composition for Zerg will be hydralisk/corruptor/swarmhost until late game, where the Zerg can either transition into ultralisks, or remain with the current composition with infestors added in. This is personal preference for most players.

    Transitioning out of Swarmhosts
    One of the most important things Zerg doesn't want to do is to stay at a corruptor/swarmhost composition for most of the game. Eventually, Protoss will be able to bust the contain, so the Zerg player should be transitioning into infestors, and throwing down some type of hive tech. Around the time Protoss is able to break the Zerg contain, you should be ready for ultralisk production. Don't throw away the swarm hosts though. Although they are not the key unit in the late game, they can still be useful.

    The Zerg late game composition against sky Protoss should consist of ultralisks/hydralisks/swarmhosts/corruptors. If the Protoss is getting voidrays, you will need more hydralisks than normal. There isn't much to say here. Just remember to continue expanding, and always be ready to tech switch. Be ready to produce your hive tech when it is available as well.

Using Mutalisks
    Mutalisks are one the best tools in the Zerg army. Here we will teach you how to use them effectively in ZvP. There are many options that the Zerg has if he decides to go for mutalisks. He can either stick with them throughout the game and base trade when the Protoss army moves out, or Zerg can use them as a harassment tool in order to get out their hive tech.

    First thing Zerg should do when mutalisks get out is harass. Find any weak spot in the Protoss base or army, and pick whatever you can off(sometimes this can kill the Protoss as well). Try to distract the army, and take out bases with zergling attacks, or even isolate his army and take out the stalkers. If you do not harass continuously with mutalisks, there is really no point in building them at all.

    If the Zerg is planning on doing a pure mutalisk style, where you get 30+ of them, he will be looking to base trade in order to win. Since you know this is inevitable, be prepared. Send drones over the map to build random hatcheries, rally your units safely, and always keep your muta/ling together in order to kill the Protoss base faster. Try hard to snipe all of the probes as well.

    If the Zerg is doing the muta/ling/bane into late game hive style, he should be getting hive fairly fast, usually around 13-15 minutes into the game. Spine crawlers are really important, because if the Protoss moves out before the Zerg players hive tech comes out, you need to delay them with spines and mutalisks as long as possible. For this style you only want around 16-20 mutalisks and then start transitioning out. But in general, with mutalisk styles, Zerg should always remember to mass expand while harassing. Zerg should have at least 5 bases by the time the Protoss moves out to try and kill you. He should still harass with mutalisks once transitioned into hive tech, and eventually allow them to die to free up some supply. Don't just suicide them though; try to get some probes or a major tech structure in exchange for their lives. Also, do not do this before the full transition as you will be very weak without mutalisks.

    If you scout stargate tech while going mutalisks, this is still fine, and you can continue making them. Eventually the Protoss will get phoenixes, so be prepared for this. Zerg can do a few things once seeing the Protoss getting phoenix. The Zerg can keep going mutalisks, and eventually add some corruptors, or he can transition out and go with swarm hosts, roach/hydra, or infestors.

Roach/Hydra Composition
    When gong for roach/hydralisk, the Zerg is going to eventually need vipers and corruptors and eventually brood lords for the late game. The point of this style is to keep the Protoss deathball small with engagements and aggressive play. As such, Zerg wants to trade cost efficiently with this style.

    Do not just sit back with this composition; the longer the game goes on the weaker this composition gets. Make sure to go hive decently fast so you can add vipers to the composition. Roach/hydra/viper is good as long as there are no templar on the field. Once templar hit the field, the viper's effectiveness drops really fast as feedback instantly kills them, or at minimum takes all their energy away. If Protoss has no templar, blinding cloud on the stalker/immortals is great as well as abducting the colossi.

    If the Zerg player is able to do damage all game and trade cost effectively, he should be able to get brood lords out fairly easily. Once they are out, the game can be ended. However, it is very important to keep the void ray count down as these will be able to deal with the broodlords very easy. Also, try not to let the Protoss mass up a huge count of templar and colossi, as this is also hard to deal with.

The Late Game
    This section is going to be a general overview of the late game.

    If the Zerg starts with mutalisks, a common transition into higher tech will consist of zergling/baneling/ultralisk/infestor. When starting mutalisk/zergling/baneling, this is the most common transition. However, you still want a greater spire for the possibility of a tech switch. Since the Zerg has air dominance, the Protoss will most likely not have tempests or void rays, and you should be able to make broodlords.

    An example of this would be if he has mass archon/colossi/immortal/zealot with some templar for storm. Zerg would want to get brood lords against this composition instead of going ultra/ling/bane/infestor. But if Protoss is going stalker/colossi/templar, then you would want to go ultralisks, as they are very strong against this composition. The trick here is to understand when you should be going broodlords and when you should be going ultralisks. If Zerg starts out with ultralisks, this does not mean he should not add in broodlords at some point, especially if Protoss is not getting that scary sky toss composition, and is making a pure anti-ultralisk army.

    If Zerg is going swarm host/hydra/corruptor, he may want to get brood lords first. If your corruptors are alive and the Protoss has no air, the Zerg should get a greater spire and morph the corruptors into broodlords. Zerg will essentially have killed him if he doesn’t break out of the contain by the time broodlords are morphed. If Protoss has air, then Zerg should get ultras out, but not too many. You can build just a few to soak damage so that splash doesn’t kill your hydras or start killing your swarm hosts if Zerg can’t retreat for whatever reason. Most of the time Zerg will be transitioning into ultras, but brood lords are a good option as well.

    Hopefully this is clear, but if not feel free to shoot us some questions for clarification.

    Best way to Fight Sky Toss
    The composition of templar/voidray/colo or tempest/colo/templar/voidray. The dreaded composition that zergs are struggling versus right now. This is a strategy that I have finally found out how to fight and beat in a head on engagement.If the zerg can deny this composition that's better, but if not the best way to fight it is to go the composition of ultra/hydra/swarmhost/viper.

    So the zerg needs to have approximately 12 swarmhosts, 3-5 ultralisks 4-6 vipers, rest hydralisks. The best way to use the composition is to have ultras + swarmhosts locusts go first and then send in hydras with the vipers abducting colossi or the air units. The swarmhost locust + ultralisks will tank damage and kill colossi/templar pretty easily and that leaves just hydralisks which can deal with mass voidray/tempest as long as the zerg can use vipers to abduct as well on tempest/carrier. Now in a straight up 200/200 fight the zerg will lose all the hydralisks, but the remax will crush the left over air of the protoss and thus the zerg will have defeated that composition.

Replays and VODs
    [image loading]
    [image loading] Blade vs [col]Kyo on Akilon Flats Fighting Colossi/Voidray with Swarmhosts
    [image loading] Blade vs CroSio on Cloud Kingdom Beating Immortal all-in with Swarmhosts

zvp replays 1

Writer: Blade
Graphics: wo1fwood
Liquipedia: SixtusTheFifth, PolskaGora
Editors: monk, SixtusTheFifth, TheEmulator, and wo1fwood

Blade was a Grandmaster Zerg player in HotS beta. You can follow him on twitter, twitter.com/blade555, or watch his stream at twitch.tv/blade55555.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Kyadytim
Profile Joined March 2009
United States886 Posts
March 13 2013 18:16 GMT
#2
Thanks Blade. With this, I might be able to win games as Zerg in HotS.
[F_]aths
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany3947 Posts
March 13 2013 18:38 GMT
#3
Thank you for those BOs. Finally something to practice.
You don't choose to play zerg. The zerg choose you.
TheEmulator
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
28085 Posts
March 13 2013 18:42 GMT
#4
While editing this my knowledge of Zerg went from I suck to DRG.
Administrator
beetlelisk
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Poland2276 Posts
March 13 2013 19:01 GMT
#5
Sweeeeeeet
What do you think about moving Swarm Hosts around through Nydus Network/Worms?
What do you think about baneling drops on mineral lines?
wwww
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
March 13 2013 19:04 GMT
#6
On March 14 2013 04:01 beetlelisk wrote:
Sweeeeeeet
What do you think about moving Swarm Hosts around through Nydus Network/Worms?
What do you think about baneling drops on mineral lines?


I think nydus can be good but not as a main thing. For example the way TLO plays swarmhosts with nydus/queen I dislike heavily. In a late game situation I do think nydus can be good to be super mobile, but not as a mid game build.

Eh baneling drops on mineral lines died out of fashion I think they are good if your opponent doesn't see it coming, but most tosses open stargate anyway so I don't like it personally.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Innovation
Profile Joined February 2010
United States284 Posts
March 13 2013 19:11 GMT
#7
Hi Blade, Thanks for the awesome guide.

It seems the guide is geared towards forge/fe toss openings, one question,

How do you deal with Toss that are opening gateway/cyber core first above the ramp rather than forge/FE? It seems to give them many options as they can threaten many varieties of early pressure to all-in 4 gates or just expand. My specific issue is not when the early pressure occurs because it's easily scouted and defended. It's when they force you to two base and even temporarily contain you with non-commital stalker or zealot/moma core that looks very similar to a one base all-in but turns out to just be an expo. Behind this they've got out their own natural expand and often moved into pheonix and a quick 3rd while adding in robo tech and moving into the really tough to deal with deathball.

I find it tough to scout whether the all-in is coming or whether it's just a pressure expand or a slightly later expand all-in. since the early stalker can chase away overlords and lings & the cyber is above the ramp so you can't spot the chrono's. I feel like it's a gamble for zerg on whether to defend or macro. With moma core it's extremely easy to feign aggression and get a zerg to over-defend which leaves us unable to defend a later two or three base timing.

I'm playing with a gasless 3 base with much later gas like 4 around the 7:30 mark and adding in the last two by 8:30 that rely's on mass queen/slow lings to defend while taking a 4th and going into hyper-agressive mid-game pressure which has been reasonably successful.

I've been thinking a two base swarmhost/queen opening might work decently against this type of toss opening as well. What is your preferred response to this type of opening from toss?
About ChoyafOu "if he wants games decided by random chance he could just play the way he always does" Idra
MstrJinbo
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1251 Posts
March 13 2013 19:18 GMT
#8
Great guide Blade, I appreciate all the work you put in. Was wondering about drone scouting in zvt. On generic 2 and 4 player maps, when are you sending out the drone scout? And when you send out the drone, what's the first priority, look for proxies or look for gas?
NeuroNiky
Profile Joined August 2010
Italy38 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-13 19:28:33
March 13 2013 19:27 GMT
#9
First of all, thanks for the great guide!

Can you please help me understand better your approach against a stargate opening in a zvp? If I get this correctly, you advice to delay lair to 7:30, then go lair, hydra den, make 10 of them, then go corruptors. All is clear and good, but by when my hydras are out, aren't we already facing an unwieldy number of void rays to deal with just hydras if he just skip phoenixes? That instakill button burns thru hydras in no time. If he went phoenixes, it's not that big an issue as those are easily countered with a 2x number of hydra in my experience (with queen support it's even easier), but in middle game I find void rays to be very hard to counter, unless he accepts a base trade. And as you highlight later, going into late game with a skytoss is something you should just try to avoid as we don't really have any reliable way to won against such a deathball yet.

Also, in zvz, I've been recently experimenting with going burrowed banes to easily counter an early ling attack, but I'm not convinced burrow is truly worth its cost with the mutacentric metagame I'm seeing now. Have you ever tried that?
White Ra makes me wanna play Protoss...
Skytt
Profile Joined June 2011
Scotland333 Posts
March 13 2013 19:32 GMT
#10
Nice guide Blade, the replay links for ZvZ and ZvP are broken though!
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-13 19:40:55
March 13 2013 19:36 GMT
#11
On March 14 2013 04:11 Innovation wrote:
Hi Blade, Thanks for the awesome guide.

It seems the guide is geared towards forge/fe toss openings, one question,

How do you deal with Toss that are opening gateway/cyber core first above the ramp rather than forge/FE? It seems to give them many options as they can threaten many varieties of early pressure to all-in 4 gates or just expand. My specific issue is not when the early pressure occurs because it's easily scouted and defended. It's when they force you to two base and even temporarily contain you with non-commital stalker or zealot/moma core that looks very similar to a one base all-in but turns out to just be an expo. Behind this they've got out their own natural expand and often moved into pheonix and a quick 3rd while adding in robo tech and moving into the really tough to deal with deathball.

I find it tough to scout whether the all-in is coming or whether it's just a pressure expand or a slightly later expand all-in. since the early stalker can chase away overlords and lings & the cyber is above the ramp so you can't spot the chrono's. I feel like it's a gamble for zerg on whether to defend or macro. With moma core it's extremely easy to feign aggression and get a zerg to over-defend which leaves us unable to defend a later two or three base timing.

I'm playing with a gasless 3 base with much later gas like 4 around the 7:30 mark and adding in the last two by 8:30 that rely's on mass queen/slow lings to defend while taking a 4th and going into hyper-agressive mid-game pressure which has been reasonably successful.

I've been thinking a two base swarmhost/queen opening might work decently against this type of toss opening as well. What is your preferred response to this type of opening from toss?


Finding out if he's doing an all in or not is the most important factor. If he goes gate first you should always get your gas and get fast speedlings, this makes it easier to hold a 4 gate and keep map presence. To find out if he is all inning or not you should see him starting his natural at typical times (before 5 minutes normally), that normally indicates some sort of all in is incoming. You should have an overlord that can check his nexus timing so that if he does throw it down later you will see it. If he does and you prepared for an all in DON"T freak out. You have to remember his natural is super late so just drone and you are fine (of course keep check on his army movements).

Once you see his nexus go down I would go start a third and put guys back on gas at 7 minutes and get a 2nd + third gas. I would also place 1 spore at the natural encase of DT's or stargate play.

On March 14 2013 04:18 MstrJinbo wrote:
Great guide Blade, I appreciate all the work you put in. Was wondering about drone scouting in zvt. On generic 2 and 4 player maps, when are you sending out the drone scout? And when you send out the drone, what's the first priority, look for proxies or look for gas?


On a 2 player map my 10nth drone is going to be scouting for proxies and then his base. On a 4 player map I 10nth drone scout but don't really check for proxies except I will scout the center first as that is the common proxy location on 4 player maps.

On March 14 2013 04:27 NeuroNiky wrote:
First of all, thanks for the great guide!

Can you please help me understand better your approach against a stargate opening in a zvp? If I get this correctly, you advice to delay lair to 7:30, then go lair, hydra den, make 10 of them, then go corruptors. All is clear and good, but by when my hydras are out, aren't we already facing an unwieldy number of void rays to deal with just hydras if he just skip phoenixes? That instakill button burns thru hydras in no time. If he went phoenixes, it's not that big an issue as those are easily countered with a 2x number of hydra in my experience (with queen support it's even easier), but in middle game I find void rays to be very hard to counter, unless he accepts a base trade. And as you highlight later, going into late game with a skytoss is something you should just try to avoid as we don't really have any reliable way to won against such a deathball yet.

Also, in zvz, I've been recently experimenting with going burrowed banes to easily counter an early ling attack, but I'm not convinced burrow is truly worth its cost with the mutacentric metagame I'm seeing now. Have you ever tried that?


No he won't have too many voidrays, and the corruptors are to focus the colossi down. The colossi are the main focus as if you kill those voidrays are something you can deal with. Contrary to popular belief right now hydralisks do beat voidrays in an engagement, if you can get rid of the splash you will be able to kill the voids with hydralisks.

Something I am experimenting with at the moment is skipping spire and going straight viper with swarmhost/hydra. For obvious reasons this isn't in the guide because I am not sure if this is better or not, I feel it will be, but don't know for sure.

In zvz early burrow isn't worth the cost unless you aren't going to go mutalisks. I never do it and I don't think burrowed banes are worth it either just feels like a waste of gas honestly.

On March 14 2013 04:32 Skytt wrote:
Nice guide Blade, the replay links for ZvZ and ZvP are broken though!


Put a new link and is fixed
When I think of something else, something will go here
SirPsychoMantis
Profile Joined December 2011
United States180 Posts
March 13 2013 19:52 GMT
#12
ZvZ 15 hatch build is missing the pool timing
Zerg #1
Aerisky
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States12129 Posts
March 13 2013 20:01 GMT
#13
Great job blade. Really sweet guide. Sort of wish someone would make one for toss though hehe
Jim while Johnny had had had had had had had; had had had had the better effect on the teacher.
Glon
Profile Joined December 2010
United States569 Posts
March 13 2013 20:17 GMT
#14
Nice job - Takes A LOT of time to write these, so hope it gets a lot of attention :D
@QuanticGlon https://twitter.com/QuanticGlon
Skytt
Profile Joined June 2011
Scotland333 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-13 20:29:36
March 13 2013 20:28 GMT
#15
On March 14 2013 04:36 blade55555 wrote:


Show nested quote +
On March 14 2013 04:32 Skytt wrote:
Nice guide Blade, the replay links for ZvZ and ZvP are broken though!


Put a new link and is fixed


Cheers man, if you add L into the zvz and zvp links the packs will download.

Edit:

ZvP
and
ZvZ
Advantageous
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
China1350 Posts
March 13 2013 20:49 GMT
#16
Where is protoss? why all zerg?
"Because I am BossToss" -MC ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ raise your dongers ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ I'm sure that all of my fellow class mates viewed me as the Adonis of the Class of 2015 already. -Xenocider, EG, ieF 2013 Champion.
fixxer
Profile Joined December 2010
6 Posts
March 13 2013 20:51 GMT
#17
Love the guide, great job as always blade. Thanks for taking the time to put this together!
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
March 13 2013 20:52 GMT
#18
On March 14 2013 05:49 Advantageous wrote:
Where is protoss? why all zerg?


Because we zergs like to write guides and help our fellow zergs out. Protosses aren't as nice, neither are terrans :D
When I think of something else, something will go here
Beakie
Profile Joined December 2012
Ukraine2 Posts
March 13 2013 21:08 GMT
#19
Thank you, blade.
KawaiiRice
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States2914 Posts
March 13 2013 21:12 GMT
#20
On March 14 2013 05:49 Advantageous wrote:
Where is protoss? why all zerg?

does protoss really need a guide to win right now? hue hue jk
@KawaiiRiceLighT
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