EPT[G] First Overview of HotS Zerg - Page 3
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YuiHirasawa
Japan220 Posts
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Insoleet
France1806 Posts
On March 14 2013 17:50 YuiHirasawa wrote: Thank you for this. I was THIS close to switch to protoss. You would have make a terrible, terrible mistake ! :D | ||
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blDraX
Germany39 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
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ForumErik
Netherlands52 Posts
Couple of questions though! In ZvZ when going for Mutas I often end up with a huge excess of larvae when my two bases are saturated. Should I take my third earlier? Mass Speedlings (if this, what do I do with them if he's defensive?)? Does it just mean my Lair is too late? In any matchup (mostly ZvP) is there a max amount of Swarm Hosts where you don't want any more? Might edit with more :> Once again thanks for writing this! | ||
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TOP_Paper
United States4 Posts
 Hope you write more guides later as the meta changes and patches change things. Cheers and thanks again. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On March 14 2013 18:50 ForumErik wrote: This guide is so good it makes me cry ;_; Couple of questions though! In ZvZ when going for Mutas I often end up with a huge excess of larvae when my two bases are saturated. Should I take my third earlier? Mass Speedlings (if this, what do I do with them if he's defensive?)? Does it just mean my Lair is too late? In any matchup (mostly ZvP) is there a max amount of Swarm Hosts where you don't want any more? Might edit with more :> Once again thanks for writing this! In zvz once you saturate both bases you should be taking a third + massing speedling either to put pressure on him or to defend against his pressure. If he's defensive try being aggressive yourself no reason not to as you don't have to commit if you don't think you can. I would recommend about 12-14 swarmhosts at the most. I have found that to be the perfect number that you want as a zerg :D On March 14 2013 18:52 TOP_Paper wrote: Really appreciate this guide. Would have taken a lot of trial by loss to figure this out on my own. Hope you write more guides later as the meta changes and patches change things. Cheers and thanks again.You do not have to worry about that, just like in wol I well keep making guides when there is a new meta or something . | ||
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Infenwe
Denmark170 Posts
To further improve it, here are some spelling/grammar/wording mistakes that could use fixing:
That does it for the versus Terran section. I might add more for the versus Zerg and versus Protoss sections later. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
I find it a bit strange that you didn't mention Infestors in the mid game anywhere. Yes, they are a lot weaker, but I still think that they have their uses. I mean, as you said Roach/Ling/Baneling/Swarm Hosts are used defensively(usually), but with Infestors instead of Swarm Hosts, or even adding couple of Infestors, to that army with a little less Roaches/Banelings/Swarm Hosts as a trade off, you can be aggressive as well. And they can delay the pushes even better together with Swarm Hosts. What do you think? And yes, what do you think about Roach/Hydra vs. Terran? Many Korean pros are using that composition against the Terran players, and they actually have success, even though it isn't easy, and it has many weaknesses, and you really need to pick up good engagements with good flanking. Also, in one of your videos you said that you don't think that Roaches aren't good with Hydras, and that you will explain that later, but you have never really explained it(or I didn't hear about it). | ||
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Expir3d
Spain17 Posts
I was also so close to do a race swap.. | ||
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KawaiiRice
United States2914 Posts
On March 14 2013 19:43 Ramiz1989 wrote: Great guide! Was hoping for something like this! I find it a bit strange that you didn't mention Infestors in the mid game anywhere. Yes, they are a lot weaker, but I still think that they have their uses. I mean, as you said Roach/Ling/Baneling/Swarm Hosts are used defensively(usually), but with Infestors instead of Swarm Hosts, or even adding couple of Infestors, to that army with a little less Roaches/Banelings/Swarm Hosts as a trade off, you can be aggressive as well. And they can delay the pushes even better together with Swarm Hosts. What do you think? And yes, what do you think about Roach/Hydra vs. Terran? Many Korean pros are using that composition against the Terran players, and they actually have success, even though it isn't easy, and it has many weaknesses, and you really need to pick up good engagements with good flanking. Also, in one of your videos you said that you don't think that Roaches aren't good with Hydras, and that you will explain that later, but you have never really explained it(or I didn't hear about it). Infestors midgame aren't very reliable compared to before. In midgame you tended to have very few infestors and relied on them to gather energy/get good fungals while teching fast (zvp/zvt). Now they have a high chance to miss, teching too fast isn't necessarily useful ZvT/bad ZvP so infestor midgame isn't that great. Roach hydra makes engaging a lot easier ZvT since you don't have to flank compared to muta ling bane, mines aren't as big of a headache and roach hydra viper is super strong in straight up fights. However, roach hydra is much worse to defend multi drops and are awful against pure bio without spellcaster support (viper/infestor, although infestor isn't very good vs pure bio anyway). Tactics like engaging outside your base -> doom dropping into your main once out of vision or something makes roach hydra really bad later on so zergs should shy away from it really. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On March 14 2013 20:24 KawaiiRice wrote: Infestors midgame aren't very reliable compared to before. In midgame you tended to have very few infestors and relied on them to gather energy/get good fungals while teching fast (zvp/zvt). Now they have a high chance to miss, teching too fast isn't necessarily useful ZvT/bad ZvP so infestor midgame isn't that great. Roach hydra makes engaging a lot easier ZvT since you don't have to flank compared to muta ling bane, mines aren't as big of a headache and roach hydra viper is super strong in straight up fights. However, roach hydra is much worse to defend multi drops and are awful against pure bio without spellcaster support (viper/infestor, although infestor isn't very good vs pure bio anyway). Tactics like engaging outside your base -> doom dropping into your main once out of vision or something makes roach hydra really bad later on so zergs should shy away from it really. Good answer, but that is strange, even before the HotS, people were saying that Roach Hydra composition work the best vs. pure Bio without Siege Tanks. As long as you don't mass Roaches(make like 15 of them since they only soak damage and have terrible dps), and mass Hydras, you can take on Bio army. That is what I've been told, and what I've seen from many HotS games so far, but when the Siege Tanks are out, half of your army evaporates even before you manage to attack. You are right, but I think that there is something else, obviously, since Koreans wouldn't go Roach Hydra as much as they do if it was that bad. | ||
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On March 14 2013 22:59 Crownlol wrote: Really can't overstate how good Mutas are right now in ZvP midgame. Those things are ouchy and annoying- if nothing else, you can frustrate a Toss into a blinding rage and force him to do stupid things. You are overreacting, lol. :D The Phoenixes with 5(7) range are equally annoying for Zerg players. Dancing around, killing Queens, Overlords, Drones, other units etc, with no real way to stop them because they are even faster than Mutalisks. | ||
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dragoon
United States695 Posts
however, theres one thing that i disagree with in the build sections. for most every timing you're basing it off of the ingame timer rather than the food count. while this is fine most of the time (and required sometimes, rw in zvp) i really would prefer you to use food counts so its easier to understand why you're doing what youre doing. gas timings for example. why would you build 2 gas at x time? who know? you're doing it because its part of the build. but if you took 2 gas at 36 suddenly you're just like "oh! i guess THATS the drone count where i can support 2 gas!" not a big deal, but its just my 2 cents ^^ | ||
Ragnarork
France9034 Posts
One thing make me sad though... Did our WoL Zerg guide get outdated too fast? Here, have another, this time in a HotS flavor. Well, the Terran and Protoss WoL guide got outdated fast too... wait... QQ | ||
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tili
United States1332 Posts
How did it feel to make meta-game? :D Edit* Can further detail be added concerning dealing with widow mines? I'm really too nervous to go ling/bling vs. terran. It's way too risky that they will all die instantly. The only good response I saw was life's micro against Mvp during the Blizz showmatch... but it seems unlikely I could pull that level of technical control off. | ||
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MilesTeg
France1271 Posts
Roach/ling/baneling into swarm host is something I'd never tried, and...what can I say it's amazing. I haven't lost doing that, it seems good against everything. Swarm hosts are imba, there I said it. Once people get more used to them they'll be a dominant unit in ZvP and ZvT. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On March 14 2013 22:59 Crownlol wrote: Really can't overstate how good Mutas are right now in ZvP midgame. Those things are ouchy and annoying- if nothing else, you can frustrate a Toss into a blinding rage and force him to do stupid things. Yeah if protoss doesn't open stargate mutalisks are insanely good, sadly 99.9% of the time most protosses will open stargate (there is no reason not to it's a strong opener right now anyway) and going mutas is suicidal verse a stargate protoss. On March 15 2013 00:38 tili wrote: This is a classy guide! Thanks blade + editing/graphics team. How did it feel to make meta-game? :D Edit* Can further detail be added concerning dealing with widow mines? I'm really too nervous to go ling/bling vs. terran. It's way too risky that they will all die instantly. The only good response I saw was life's micro against Mvp during the Blizz showmatch... but it seems unlikely I could pull that level of technical control off. Well I don't think going roach/hydra is a good response the best way is to send a pack of 5-6 lings or get swarmhosts to deal with widow mines. No easier way sadly xD On March 15 2013 01:27 MilesTeg wrote: This guide helped me so much, especially in ZvT where I was so lost. Roach/ling/baneling into swarm host is something I'd never tried, and...what can I say it's amazing. I haven't lost doing that, it seems good against everything. Swarm hosts are imba, there I said it. Once people get more used to them they'll be a dominant unit in ZvP and ZvT. hehe their really strong, but I don't think imba. You do have to remember that swarmhosts were very rarely used in zvt bio so terrans will have to adjust like protosses to deal with them. | ||
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Fencar
United States2694 Posts
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