EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXII - Page 50
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On August 05 2012 17:42 Ange777 wrote: Are you guys just dumping your reads and leaving the thread instantly? Nope. | ||
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
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alan133
Malaysia159 Posts
Yes, I am leaning towards a scum Jingle for the same reasons. His shift his FOS towards me seems like a desperation move to shift the focus away from himself. I think even a townie Jingle would be more careful when he suggest a new lynch, as the town's goal is to lynch scum, not just to survive. I went through aRyu's filter once and did not come out with anything else that has not been said about him already. I think his lurkiness is generally anti-town, so I did not put it in my post. @aRyu I went through the filter again and I thought I should share something I found. It is a bit WIFOM: + Show Spoiler + aRyuujin/MrMedic Suspecting me-Smart I did not yet provide posts Either i'm scum or A really bad Town. Mr Medic comes to mind For these reasons too His first content post he looks he's saying stuff showing fallacies He's bandwagoning and his analysis makes little sense if you understand how mordanis was posting those were 3 what-ifs false contribution and his confusing posts lead me to believe that he's either a bad town, or a mafioso backup vote's on him Here seems like aRyu is kicking MrMedic(Jingle's predecessor) out for sheeping on DP. Ignoring WIFOM, it is unlikely scum aRyu and scum MrMedic (now Jingle) interacts publicly in such a manner in such an early stage. I would say if one of them is scum, the other is kind of cleared. I am not saying both can't be town (or with WIFOM, scum), but it won't make sense if both are town, unless there is some ballsy bussing maneuver going on in day 3. @DarthPunk The conclusion I made above convinced me DarthPunk is the potential last scum, given that no bussing occurred. I went through his huge filter and was hoping to find one slip that can nail him, and have yet to find anything substantial. His blatant defences on Zorkmid is definitely scum motivated, and I know I also "defended" zorkmid, I hope you all see that I have been consistent with defending people who I thought was being called out for the wrong reasons. I would like to put my vote on VOTE## JingleHell, and FOS## DarthPunk. I believe we got this in the bag  | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
I'm getting a town vibe from him. I'm also still fairly certain that DP and JingleHell are scum, so that might be playing into it as well. One major thing he brings up is Jingle's play from NMM XXI. This is more of a town move, imo. I don't see why scum would find meta info about a player that CLEARS them unless they're clearing scum (obviously). Therefore, if Alan is scum, then Jingle is probably scum too, meaning we should STILL lynch Jingle this turn. Alan also doesn't post as much as many others. However, judging by my own lack of activity, I'm hesitant to call him scum based on that. Also, much of his posting is insightful. Though he was often wrong, he might just be unlucky or not playing well this game. Unlike Obvious, I'm hugely against lynching 'bad townies.' | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10854 Posts
On August 05 2012 17:19 aRyuujin wrote: On Darthpunk: like others have noted, that 'breadcrumb' by zork could easily have been just a way to give DP an excuse to seem anti zork. Note how previously, he was reluctant on voting zork, and finally changed when he saw there was no point in not doing so. This is a typical scum move, just trying to blend in with the other townies and going with the bandwagon. In fact, at one point he even calls zork a bad player (presumably for pulling the crappy breadcrumb stunt). This falls in sync with DP's other actions regarding the mordanis vs zork swap. Have you even read my filter? I have been calling zork a bad player since he was first ever mentioned. I did not see the breadcrumb until after I posted, because it was posted as I wrote the post switching to zork. If I was using the breadcrumb as some sort of justification for swapping why did the post in which I swapped make no mention of it? I said, as soon as it became clear that it was between zork and mord for the lynch that I would alter my vote in order to avoid a mislynch. At that point it was 5v5 and with GK pushing for a no lynch i consolidated onto zorkmid. Even though I thought zork was suspicious, I was certain that Mord was scum. I was wrong. But i still pushed the lynch that I thought would most likely hit scum. In fact, my position was almost the same as ange's except I was wrong and he was right. If that had been reversed it would be ange in the position that I am in now. I had a read wrong. I thought that Zork was just a bad town player, because I assumed scum actions would be less haphazard and more thought out. I saw scum motive in Mordanis' behaviour and it turns out I was wrong as well. Perhaps it was confirmation bias. But many of you shared suspicions of mordanis actions during both day 1 and 2. When I originally thought about zork. I questioned how scum could make such silly mistakes and be so blatantly bad. This is the reason I thought he may be town. Scum have the ability to communicate, they can aid each other in their posting etc. and are therefore less likely to make the flagrant errors zorkmid did. But now that I know zork was scum my perspective on certain things has been altered. It is very possible zork was a bus because scum were so far ahead at that point in the game. If he was a bus? with the cases people are making right now? we are screwed. | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
ninja'd by alan lol he's basically agreeing with me at this point, so chances are we're both scum or both town. As Jingle is more scummy than either of us, and I think DP is too, I think it's fairly obvious that we're both town. @Obvious I can see why you think I'm scum because of inactivity. I've noted several times how my lurking has been bad. I'd like to ask you a question, though. Why the hell would scum me miss day 2 vote? Scum can plan out votes/plays and jump on bandwagons much easier, as their goal is NOT actually finding scum, rather just looking like town (no shit). I | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
The distraction created between JingleHell and Ange777 feels off. I know Jingle is very much like a bull-dog in that he prefers to sink his teeth into a target and not let go without a good reason. That's fine to me, as far as seeing his play before. However, the answers Ange repeatedly gave (specifically, that Ange had already had suspicions of Shady Sands prior to Jingle saying anything) weren't being accepted and he didn't even bother going down another track. Not one shift off of Ange in favor of scum sniffing a different person. The two of them literally shitted up the thread for a little while. + Show Spoiler [in which shitting happens] + On August 03 2012 23:42 JingleHell wrote:If you don't understand how I think it's fishy that someone (to paraphrase) wants me to not tunnel and then adds evidence to the only case I've made I can't help you. What I can do is remember that there's probably a fair number of active scum left, and wonder why you're defending Ange so staunchly when he's not even in danger at the moment On August 03 2012 06:59 JingleHell wrote: An ad hom attack to continue to ignore the difference between an uninformative answer and an explained motive. So many sheep it's probably going to fly. Should I just go ahead and congratulate you on the scum win now, or shall I wait? This will be my last response to your effort to clutter the thread. Explain your motive or I waste no more time on you. My vote stays put. Wait, who started all this personal attack stuff? Oh, right, JingleHell brought it in. + Show Spoiler [lol @ "angus beef"] + On August 03 2012 06:47 JingleHell wrote: Frankly, in newbie games, the guy who seems like he's been huffing a mixture of model glue, jet fuel, and plutonium, usually is huffing a mixture of model glue, jet fuel, and plutonium. Thus, Zork could be scum, just like anyone else, but frankly, he's not my first target. I don't consider you telling me you already suspected Shady to be explaining your motive. You wanted me to be after multiple people, but you were happy to just pile evidence on the guy I was already looking at. Saying you already had your eye on him is telling me an action. Not telling me what, from a townie perspective, could motivate that action (hence "motive"). On August 03 2012 08:38 JingleHell wrote: I'm still just worried about the Angus beef, who wanted me to read on everyone, but reinforced the only read I'd posted right after. Call me crazy, but every time I've tried to think of a townie motive for that, I've sounded to myself like I was the one smoking crack cooked in the ruins of Chernobyl. Given how things have gone so far, we're going to need to get the entire town united on somebody, which, I expect, includes most of the sheep. A challenger appears: + Show Spoiler [GoodKarma mentions JH] + On August 04 2012 01:01 goodkarma wrote: So NO ONE has changed their votes lol. I'll say this now: Shady hasn't participated in over a day... If he had participated to any degree this past 24 hours town would have been in much better shape now. Town had a great opportunity to get back into this game by rallying behind him, but now that opportunity is slipping through our fingers... Considering the stubbornness with which both JingleHell and Zork have voted for their candidates and haven't tried to help with securing a lynch majority, it is clear as day to me that they are scum. Then there is only one scum remaining, and he is voting FOR ONE OF THE TWO CANDIDATES with four votes. With Zork pegged as scum, one of the three remaining people is also scum: alan133, aRyuujin, Darthpunk. I said before that I would stand by Shady Sands, after he had already voted for Mord. Instead of helping town, he's afked, and in the process has let town down  . I am nearly 100% certain at this point that Mord. is innocent, but shady is only confirmed town meaning EVERY TOWN REMAINING would have to vote for the other candidate, Zork, for Zork to be lynched. That's simply not going to happen. And at this point, it feels just as unlikely that whichever other two town are on Mord. will be changing their votes... In other words, I'm pretty sure today is no-lynch.There is also the possibility that JingleHell and Zork would tack onto the innocent candidate bandwaggon, which could secure the majority, but would condemn them as scum. I don't see that happening, though honestly it is their best move (lol) since it would guarantee LYLO for town. Ironically, if town no lynches today, a situation I hadn't considered, town in fact still isn't in LYLO. This is a situation I hadn't accounted for, but the complete gridlock in the voting has clearly demonstrated where some of the scum are. A lot of information has been presented from voting patterns even without a lynch. So while I could switch my vote to an innocent man, and stay true to my word, I prefer hypocrisy. My plan with Shady as leader is still the best chance for town, and hopefully town will realize that tomorrow. But the biggest component of that plan, Shady himself, needs to become proactive in rallying town together for that plan to work. Further, if we were just to lynch: Zork and JingleHell the next two days, and cop were to survive, then: We could go from a 1/3 chance to catch the last scum and win to a much better chance (not 100%... the last scum could still be godfather..., ((1/3)(1/3)+(1)(2/3))*100 = ~78% if you really wanted to know). I know that some might consider everything I've just said speculation, but nothing in this game is certain. I strongly believe that today's voting patterns have pegged two scum, and provided us the place to look for the last one. I look forward to hearing everyone's opinions tonight. + Show Spoiler [well, ange didn't back down so...] + On August 04 2012 01:07 JingleHell wrote: Ok, trying to say "You're next because you don't agree with me", when there's not some sort of rock solid evidence... You're right, I've been too stubborn. People aren't ready to vote for Ange. ##Unvote ##Vote GK You seem awfully convinced that certain people are scum based on flips that haven't happened, and that's kind of an obvious slip. A little bit back we have this opportunity for Jingle to vote for me (and honestly, why not? I'm awful): + Show Spoiler [Obvious makes "no sense"] + On August 04 2012 01:02 JingleHell wrote: I'm actually more nervous about Obvious's reasoning for the way he addressed me here than I am about what he suggested. I already explained why I think it's a silly scenario, but I have a natural distrust for people who try to win me over on WIFOM and diplomacy, rather than a good case.
Now they hope we don't connect the dots immediately? Pray for us to suck that bad? Who got sheeped here, the town or the scum? | ||
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
Anyway, I want to hear your scum reads. I have a feeling you are accusing me of bussing Zork? | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On August 05 2012 18:40 aRyuujin wrote: EBWOP ninja'd by alan lol he's basically agreeing with me at this point, so chances are we're both scum or both town. As Jingle is more scummy than either of us, and I think DP is too, I think it's fairly obvious that we're both town. @Obvious I can see why you think I'm scum because of inactivity. I've noted several times how my lurking has been bad. I'd like to ask you a question, though. Why the hell would scum me miss day 2 vote? Scum can plan out votes/plays and jump on bandwagons much easier, as their goal is NOT actually finding scum, rather just looking like town (no shit). I Did you finish that post? There's an I at the end there, so I just wanted to know if you had anything else to add before I answer. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On August 05 2012 18:50 Obvious.660 wrote: Did you finish that post? There's an I at the end there, so I just wanted to know if you had anything else to add before I answer. Something more like this? Scum aRyuujin: Why the hell would scum me miss day 2 vote? Scum can plan out votes/plays and jump on bandwagons much easier, as their goal is NOT actually finding scum, rather just looking like town (no shit). I lost track of the thread trying to look like bad town and it slipped my mind because I wasn't going to make a meaningful vote anyhow. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10854 Posts
On August 05 2012 05:58 Ange777 wrote: He says the case is weaker. No reasons. When I ask him for his reasoning: A huge soft defense on Zork. DarthPunk explains that everything I believe makes Zork scummy can be explained as bad town play. Therefore there would be no evidence for lynching Zork and instead we should just lynch aRyuujin if we were after a lurker. When I again push DarthPunk for more reasons on why he thinks Zork is town he states: You specifically asked me to state the reasons I thought the case on zork was weaker than the case on mordanis. You are now calling my reasoning behind why the case on zork was weaker that you asked for as a huge soft defense on zork WTF? I answered a question you asked as transparently as possible and you are now delivering that answer without context as me defending a scum. and therefore I should be lynched. I admitted there was a case on zork/zork was suspicious. I thought it was weaker than my case on mord because I believed he was just as likely to be a bad townie as a bad scum. And I was 100% certain that mord was scum. You are now presenting my answers on why I thought Zork was a weaker case, as me defending scum zork. Right. On August 05 2012 05:58 Ange777 wrote: He explains that he now believes me scummy and that my replys were disproportinate. And does not explain what exactly made him change his mind. He further states that he can't see any kind of scum motivation for a scum Jingle to tunnel me and discredit me when I am pushing the case on scum Zork. But he was able to see so much town motivation for Zork's play to defend him over and over again. And again he mentions that I am trying to get a lurker lynched while I have repeatedly said that my main reason for lynching Zork is not his semi-lurking. Jingle started making a case on you hours before your case on zork. Your main argument against Jingle was that he was chainsaw defending zork. The reason I found this scummy? you seemed to be DESPERATE to try and establish a link between zork and Jingle that wasn't there and quite obviously wasn't there. I have already posted on the motivation isssue. I would say check my filter, but it is obvious no one is doing that. So here it is: On August 05 2012 11:47 DarthPunk wrote: This is part of the reason the Jingle case does not make sense to me. When he first came to the thread people were even talking about everyone sheeping his vote (obvious). If he was scum I see no rational in his play. He could have just quietly jumped on a bandwagon and consolidated the goodwill that everyone was showing him when he first joined. Instead he disregards staying alive and makes his own reads, own case and starts pressuring those people. To me this is town behaviour and would be retarded as scum. I don't get why everyone thinks that all scum in the game were forming a counter wagon to zork. He was a bad player I think everyone can agree on that. I don't know why people think that scum would go all in in order to save someone whom was obviously a liability. That is largely WIFOM though, which I dislike. read that. On August 05 2012 05:58 Ange777 wrote: The timing is so close that I could say that scum discussed their situation in the scum QT and decided to concede in the Zork lynch. Why would DarthPunk otherwise switch his vote? There was still a lot of time for him to potentially convince others to vote for Mordanis. This is no last minute vote switch just to ensure that there is a majority at the deadline. And it's not like he was heading to bed anyway and needed to put the vote on Zork before leaving as he was still awake an hour later. Posted on this also: On August 05 2012 11:27 DarthPunk wrote: I said I would. I think it was to Ange in the second part of day 2. I was always willing to change my vote to avoid a no lynch. at that point in time I had every intention of going to sleep and didn't want to leave it in the hands of others. Would I rather people to have changed their votes to you at that time 100% yes. But I didn't see that happening and some were even putting forward the idea of a no lynch which i was 100% against. So I tried to consolidate the vote onto one candidate. I am not sure others would have switched off mord had zork not made his medic claim. Anyway that was my thoughts behind it. Honestly I don't see what else there is to say. There is a fundamental lack of a case present in your case. What I will say is this. I am very fucking suspicious of you right now. You seem to have been desperate to link jingle hell to your zorkmid case even though his case on you began hours earlier. You asked me several times to state why I felt the Zork case was weaker, and are now using all those answers you dug for yesterday in order to build a case that isn't there. It seems as if you 100% KNEW that zork would flip red. And then desperately tried to manufacture connections to him wherever you could. I can 100% see a scum motivation for this you bussed zork and not only gained 'confirmed town' status but have also set up 2 mislynches. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10854 Posts
On August 05 2012 18:45 Ange777 wrote: A wise man once said: When you are ahead, get more ahead. Why bus their own team member when scum could have easily get a mislynch on another townie: Mordanis? Votes were stuck evenly for quite a long time. Anyway, I want to hear your scum reads. I have a feeling you are accusing me of bussing Zork? What? you had suspicions that that is where I was going before I even accused you? Is this because it is the one thing you are afraid of people thinking? | ||
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
On August 05 2012 18:37 DarthPunk wrote: When I originally thought about zork. I questioned how scum could make such silly mistakes and be so blatantly bad. This is the reason I thought he may be town. Scum have the ability to communicate, they can aid each other in their posting etc. and are therefore less likely to make the flagrant errors zorkmid did. But now that I know zork was scum my perspective on certain things has been altered. It is very possible zork was a bus because scum were so far ahead at that point in the game. If he was a bus? with the cases people are making right now? we are screwed. You said you believe it highly likely that Zork was bussed. I was the one who pushed Zork the most. So logical conclusion: You are suspecting me of bussing Zork. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10854 Posts
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DarthPunk
Australia10854 Posts
On August 05 2012 18:26 alan133 wrote: @DarthPunk The conclusion I made above convinced me DarthPunk is the potential last scum, given that no bussing occurred. I went through his huge filter and was hoping to find one slip that can nail him, and have yet to find anything substantial. His blatant defences on Zorkmid is definitely scum motivated, and I know I also "defended" zorkmid, I hope you all see that I have been consistent with defending people who I thought was being called out for the wrong reasons. I would like to put my vote on VOTE## JingleHell, and FOS## DarthPunk. I believe we got this in the bag I didn't "defend" zork. In fact I stated several times to the very person who is accusing me in the very posts he is quoting (I know, right) that I thought he was suspicious and that there certainly was a case against him. Then when prompted I discussed my thoughts on why he was a weaker lynch than Mord. It seems people are very interested to perpetuating this myth. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10854 Posts
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
On August 05 2012 19:21 DarthPunk wrote: You specifically asked me to state the reasons I thought the case on zork was weaker than the case on mordanis. You are now calling my reasoning behind why the case on zork was weaker that you asked for as a huge soft defense on zork WTF? I answered a question you asked as transparently as possible and you are now delivering that answer without context as me defending a scum. and therefore I should be lynched. I admitted there was a case on zork/zork was suspicious. I thought it was weaker than my case on mord because I believed he was just as likely to be a bad townie as a bad scum. And I was 100% certain that mord was scum. You are now presenting my answers on why I thought Zork was a weaker case, as me defending scum zork. Right. -snip- Jingle started making a case on you hours before your case on zork. Your main argument against Jingle was that he was chainsaw defending zork. The reason I found this scummy? you seemed to be DESPERATE to try and establish a link between zork and Jingle that wasn't there and quite obviously wasn't there. I have already posted on the motivation isssue. I would say check my filter, but it is obvious no one is doing that. So here it is: read that. Posted on this also: Honestly I don't see what else there is to say. There is a fundamental lack of a case present in your case. What I will say is this. I am very fucking suspicious of you right now. You seem to have been desperate to link jingle hell to your zorkmid case even though his case on you began hours earlier. You asked me several times to state why I felt the Zork case was weaker, and are now using all those answers you dug for yesterday in order to build a case that isn't there. It seems as if you 100% KNEW that zork would flip red. And then desperately tried to manufacture connections to him wherever you could. I can 100% see a scum motivation for this you bussed zork and not only gained 'confirmed town' status but have also set up 2 mislynches. Yes, I asked you why you believe the Zork case to be weaker. The only explanation you were offering was he might just be a bad townie. You were not even convinced of his bad town status yourself, you were only giving him the benefit of doubt. This of course will look like a huge soft defense after a red flip. You proceed to say that I tried and still am trying to link Zork with Jingle. While I agree that he first caught my eye due to his behaviour towards Zork (not commenting on Zork at all etc), the reason why I believe him to be scum is not only based on this. I have stated it now a few times, if Jingle were town, I'd expect him to be active here in the thread and discuss his scum reads with us. Furthermore, I believe his claim to being roleblocked to be even more suspicious. In a Mini Game like this, there is no reason why not to claim that you got roleblocked but the first time we get a roleblocked claim is in Day 3? If there was anyone who got roleblocked previously, claim it now please! Regarding the last past: Yes, I knew that Zork would flip red because I saw the scumslip which everyone else failed to see. You say that you see a scum motivation for me to make the case against Zork but you are not willing to give me any benefit of doubt (which you were so happy to give to Zork) that I might have just saw the scumslip, be convinced of Zork's scum-alignment by it and therefore started the case? Instead you claim that me making the Zork case was 100% scum motivation? Let's go to your scenario with me being scum and bussing Zork. There might have been a few cases against Zork but none of them really got any traction so if it had not been for me strongly pushing Zork, I don't think he would have been lynched. I suppose it could have been Mordanis instead. I don't know how you can now claim that Zork was the most obvious scum member if at the time when I pushed him you were leaning on him as bad town player and at first no one agreed with my case? Wouldn't I have made a more convincing case for town to sheep? And why would a scum me see the need to bus the not obvious scum Zork at all? Only to get town cred? If we had mislynched Mordanis instead, we'd be at 5 town, 3 scum. A far more preferable situation for scum as they would have so much more possibilites to switch lynches with 3 votes instead of 2. What I don't understand until now is that you say that the discussion between Jingle and me made you think I'm suspicious. What exactly made you think that? | ||
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
So are you saying that the discussion between Jingle and me made me look desperate and therefore scummy? | ||
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
Of course I was desperate. 1. I was trying to get you to see the obvious scumslip but nobody seemed to understand. 2. Jingle was claiming that I didn't defend myself and accused my based on nothing while I had explained my behaviour more than once to him. And while he was needlessly tunneling me, he completely ignored the case on Zork (and the one on Mordanis btw). This is no pro town play therefore my frustration. | ||
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