• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 18:33
CEST 00:33
KST 07:33
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, Zoun, Solar, Creator2[ASL19] Finals Preview: Daunting Task30[ASL19] Ro4 Recap : The Peak15DreamHack Dallas 2025 - Info & Preview21herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2025)18
Community News
Weekly Cups (May 19-25): Hindsight is 20/20?0DreamHack Dallas 2025 - Official Replay Pack8[BSL20] RO20 Group Stage2EWC 2025 Regional Qualifiers (May 28-June 1)9Weekly Cups (May 12-18): Clem sweeps WardiTV May3
StarCraft 2
General
Can anyone explain to me why u cant veto a matchup DreamHack Dallas 2025 - Official Replay Pack Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, Zoun, Solar, Creator herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2025) DreamHack Dallas 2025 - Info & Preview
Tourneys
[GSL 2025] Code S:Season 2 - RO12 - Group A DreamHack Dallas 2025 SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance Mutation # 473 Cold is the Void Mutation # 472 Dead Heat
Brood War
General
Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans? BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ GG Lan Party Bulgaria (Live in about 3 hours) BW General Discussion Recent recommended BW games
Tourneys
[ASL19] Grand Finals [BSL20] GosuLeague RO16 - Tue & Wed 20:00+CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL19] Ro8 Day 4
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Plays: Diplomacy TL Mafia: Generative Agents Showdown Survivor II: The Amazon
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread NHL Playoffs 2024 Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Cleaning My Mechanical Keyboard How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL.net Ten Commandments
Blogs
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Yes Sir! How Commanding Impr…
TrAiDoS
Poker
Nebuchad
Info SLEgma_12
SLEgma_12
SECOND COMMING
XenOsky
WombaT’s Old BW Terran Theme …
WombaT
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 13614 users

Newbie Mini Mafia XXII - Page 48

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
Prev 1 46 47 48 49 50 68 Next
Mordanis
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States893 Posts
August 04 2012 20:21 GMT
#941
So I read through the ~12 hours before the lynch, and DP's play really stood out to me. He spends several hours defending Zork and lambasting me. + Show Spoiler [I can't fix the formatting issue…] +
On August 03 2012 16:50 DarthPunk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 03 2012 15:23 Mordanis wrote:
So your claim to have been watching me the entire time. You jumped on my bandwagon before the cycle I was even lynched. Sweet. And yet you completely ignored me for the entirety of D2 while pushing your case on Prom. A case which was really weak. Why would you ignore someone you thought was scum for an entire 2 cycles (N2 also). Strange.


Although this doesn't address the cases against you I will respond. I posted about you several times during day 2. They are contained within the case you quoted. I don't like to post much during night cycles as all it does is give mafia additional information upon which they can make a night kill. We can't lynch at night so I don't see the point in showing your hand.

Show nested quote +
On August 03 2012 15:23 Mordanis wrote:
I have no fucking clue what you mean about the case about my play D1. You say I lead the lynch hard and call that scummy but also call my suspicion of SS and my "lack of contribution" scummy. WTF does this mean. Then you call me retarded. Right.


This has all been stated previously. But you seem to want me to state it all gain so here goes.

The thing scummy with your day one play is that you lead the mislynch of Golbat for pretty much the entire day.
After the bandwagon had started rolling you said that you read obvious' filter from the previous game and that convinced you enough that Golbat was townie that you unvoted him. You then second the position of others and voted Shady Sands without basing it on reasoning or adding anything to the case.

The reason I believe this is scummy You lead a mislynch then once the ball was rolling you switched voted onto someone elses case. I believe you did that in order to distance you self from the mislynch and to set up a potential mis-lynch day 2. After receiving pressure from this turn of events from myself and Keirathi. you revert to your original position on Golbat. You were still one of the last to vote for golbat, despite leading his mislynch and amidst the confusion i believe you achieved your goal. To lead a mislynch on golbat whilst attempting to distance yourself from it, and potentially set up a mislynch on shady sands for the following cycle. I Have stated this a few times. I apologise if it was not clear enough to understand.
Show nested quote +
On August 03 2012 15:23 Mordanis wrote:
DP again misreads my post on Prom. I said I was confused by his play, I did not say it was scummy.
You posted a case on him and stated he was mildly scummy. Furthermore you were incredibly wishy-washy in your conclusion. Which is the main thing that is scummy because it was a dramatic shift in style from your day 1 play and allowed you to follow the position of others without sticking your neck out.

Show nested quote +
On July 31 2012 19:10 Mordanis wrote:
Essentially, from what I've read about XIX Promethelax kind of mauled town by getting into the "town circle", and controlling the game from there. I don't think a smart person could try the same strategy against people its already been used on and expect to win again. For that reason, Promethelax's inconsistent/illogical/ seems to be a mild indicator of scumminess. Also, being relatively inactive during one day reduces the amount of stuff any player needs to defend himself later.


Edit before having to double post (EBHTDP)
I am still confused by large parts of his play. For instance the part about lynching semi-lurkers seems sort of like what he's doing. GK hasn't posted nearly as many times as Prom himself, myself, Keir, Ange, Obvious, or Shady. 6 players of 12 left have 3 or more pages in their filter, the other 6 have 2. GK has spent a lot of his time defending himself, so if you take that away he's pretty lurky. But the caffeine is wearing off now, see y'all in the morning. Still, I like the content he generated with that post on GK, so I'll be watching Prom closely. I seriously need to pass out now though :/


On August 03 2012 15:23 Mordanis wrote:
DP then goes on to say that my not wanting to vote without information is scummy. Why? Scum know the flip, and with their handy-dandy knowledge of who's who its a lot easier to understand peoples' play. Who is killed doesn't matter as much to scum either because as long as it furthers their goal of remaining undetected, they are happy with the result. They keep their kp. Town, on the other hand, gets only one vote for one lynch per day. With very limited information, trying to get information before voting seems rather more suited towards town play than scum.


I disagree. You had all day to review the thread, filters and to post cases. Yet the posts you made were very wishy-washy. etc and non-committal. Waiting to see who others will vote for is scummy behaviour because it allows you to just join the most popular bandwagon in order to seem less conspicuous. Which is Exactly what you did in the end. During your vote you were wishy-washy and it seemed you were distancing yourself from the mislynch. I feel like what i have already posted on this topic makes sense. If you didn't think prox was scum why did you vote for him? If you did why were you so wishywashy and attempt to distance yourself from the lynch before he flipped the elegant solution is that you knew he was going to flip green and wanted to distance yourself from the mislynch but still ensure it happened. Therefore I feel it is scummy.
On August 03 2012 15:23 Mordanis wrote:
Again DP completely ignores what he just posted on me to build his nonsensical case on me. The previous thing that he called me out for being wishy-washy is my reason for thinking the lynch on Prom was a bad choice. Prom's play was confusing, but it didn't help scum really. He called me out for thinking it was a weak case but ignores my explanation for why and then calls me out for not explaining why I thought it was a weak case. Wow, that logic seemed pretty circular.

Long story short, the few things in this case that might seem weird have no justification for why they are scummy, and the rest is DP citing one short period of time and calling me out for doing one thing and the opposite of that thing. DP is either too busy eating glue to think, too biased to think critically, or scum.

I really don't understand this argument at all really. This is not true at all. I thought the cases on you were quite clear and I didn't feel the need to repeat the cases against you again. Your explanations I feel have not been adequate and seem to confirm you are scum because your defense of the case against you has been a mess. Others can understand the points and cases against you. I just assumed you would too.

(as I said previously I am sorry if you feel I have been/am being rude and obnoxious towards you. I am just arguing my case it is not personal)

On August 03 2012 18:40 DarthPunk wrote:

Show nested quote +
On August 03 2012 00:17 Zorkmid wrote:
On August 03 2012 00:00 DarthPunk wrote:
@ ange777.

The zork scumslip combined with his lurky posting habits are certainly cause for suspicion. I don't like his explanation for the statement. He is saying that he looks at certain posts through different roles but does not actually explain the slip at all. What was he trying to say there? It was WIFOM pure and simple. He has not answered the case on him adequately and he has not provided much in the way of cases.


What are you talking about?

I honestly can't see how one person, let alone two people would see this as a slip.

Let me walk you through what I assumed to be pretty straight forward logic.

I believe that no smart green or blue would have made the post that Prom did....but he did, hence I thought that he may be red. I'm speculating on the meaning of Prom's actions based on what I would do, nothing more, nothing less.

I think that most people followed this logic just fine, as it contributed to Prom's mis-lynch.

On August 03 2012 00:00 DarthPunk wrote:The problem with both Zorkmid and aRyuujin is that there is so little to actually make a read from.


I don't post as often as many players, but at least what I do post has some thought behind it.


Ok my analysis - ignoring the scum slip which I will get to later.

Zork is playing really badly. He is playing really badly as town OR as scum. He has been confused more than once as to what is happening in the game, who he has suspicions on etc.
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2012 22:02 Zorkmid wrote:
I honestly just forgot about SS, but your accusation has led me to go back through his filter. I've noticed that he has never addressed my accusation about him.



Show nested quote +
On August 03 2012 00:17 Zorkmid wrote:
On August 03 2012 00:00 DarthPunk wrote:
@ ange777.

The zork scumslip combined with his lurky posting habits are certainly cause for suspicion. I don't like his explanation for the statement. He is saying that he looks at certain posts through different roles but does not actually explain the slip at all. What was he trying to say there? It was WIFOM pure and simple. He has not answered the case on him adequately and he has not provided much in the way of cases.


What are you talking about?

I honestly can't see how one person, let alone two people would see this as a slip.

Let me walk you through what I assumed to be pretty straight forward logic.

I believe that no smart green or blue would have made the post that Prom did....but he did, hence I thought that he may be red. I'm speculating on the meaning of Prom's actions based on what I would do, nothing more, nothing less.

I think that most people followed this logic just fine, as it contributed to Prom's mis-lynch.

On August 03 2012 00:00 DarthPunk wrote:The problem with both Zorkmid and aRyuujin is that there is so little to actually make a read from.


I don't post as often as many players, but at least what I do post has some thought behind it.

Which makes me tend to believe him when he says that he is not paying attention to the thread because of IRL commitments. Because why? what are the scum motivations behind his posts? This is still bad play and hurts town. As I said earlier It isn't easy to get a scum read when there has been so little activity from him. His posts make no sense as either scum or town. He is Lurking though. If we get to LYLO and we have nothing to go off in terms of reads that is a major liability.

on the scum slip. @ange777 I don't think your logic is as iron clad as you believe.

Show nested quote +
On July 31 2012 22:46 Zorkmid wrote:
I also think that your "relief post" is strange. It's sort of WIFOM, but I don't think that as a green or blue I would ever post something like that. It's just yelling out "I'm A TOWNIE huehuehue". I wouldn't post it because it reeks of redness


What I think he is trying to say is this. He thinks saying this is scummy. No town player would need to say this, he is town so he wouldn't say it.

It is WIFOM and speculation and is written poorly. (which I hate) yet can't see a scum motivation or plan for this. It is possible that he is scum and that this is the evidence. It is also possible that he is bad at explaining himself, a poor writer and you are reading too much into this.

Your entire case is based around reading a few statements a certain way, and thus seems to be weaker than my case on mordanis and weaker than your case on mordanis (that you seem to have dropped off the face of the earth).

If it comes to a no lynch situation I will be willing to change my vote. (as everyone should be) but at this time the cases on Mordanis are far stronger.


If people are set on lynching lurky players aRyuujin is a stronger lynch IMO. He has less than a one page filter he votes Golbat day 1. went AFK for 2 cycles comes back and puts a vote on mord that just echos my position and then leaves again. I wish we still had a Vig cause aRyuujin has been and will increasingly become a serious liability.





On August 03 2012 20:01 DarthPunk wrote:
When I first saw it last night I saw it the same way that you do, but then I read this.
Show nested quote +
On August 03 2012 00:17 Zorkmid wrote:
I believe that no smart green or blue would have made the post that Prom did....but he did, hence I thought that he may be red. I'm speculating on the meaning of Prom's actions based on what I would do, nothing more, nothing less.


This whilst far from enough to convince me of his innocence, IS a plausible explanation of his slip. I am not comfortable with risking a mislynch on a player based off reading one sentence a certain way when there is a plausible explanation which can cause it to be looked at in a different way. Remember the last 'scumslip' in this game. With golbat? I don't want a repeat of that.
So I need more than the perceived Scumslip to go off on Zorkmid.
The rest of the case is much less developed.

1. semi-lurking
2. posting inconsistently
3. waiting for cases to sheep

These are all true. And I have read his filter several times. However, as I have said before, I feel the cases on mordanis are much stronger.

In terms of the MrMedic thing that you have mentioned a few times. I noticed reading through his filter that he was actually talking about aRyuujin in the post you referenced.

as I stated previously I can't see any logical motivation to his posting. Although I don't see how having little if any defense at all on a case against him proves his motive one way or another. If he wrote a disproportionate amount in his defense and on closer inspection it contained nothing of substance that would give me a definite scum vibe. but no defense at all? I can't see that helping scum OR town.

If we are going to lynch a lurker which seems to be the other main argument against Zorkmid I would rather lynch the player with a 1 page filter than the one with a 3 page filter.

As for the thing with jingle. I will need to read through it again.




On August 03 2012 21:03 DarthPunk wrote:
He is making mistakes. But there doesn't seem to be a discernible motive behind them.
If these mistakes in some way furthered an agenda they would be a lot more worrying to me than just making mistakes for no reason whatsoever.
This actually makes me lean towards just a bad townie more than anything. Why as scum would he make such obvious mistakes and cast suspicion on him for nothing? To me it seems less likely for scum to make stupid mistakes like this exactly because they are more likely to be careful.
Even mords day 1 posting was better than this. What made it scummy? he was actively pursuing an agenda. If zork has an agenda with his mistakes it is to make everyone super suspicious of him. This is the reason I don't think these mistakes can be used as 100% proof of his scumminess as you do.

On August 03 2012 22:29 DarthPunk wrote:
It gives me more of a town vibe because scum are more likely to be careful and not make stupid mistakes like Zork is making. But as you say, making mistakes like that does not mean he is town and he could just as likely be scum.
What I don't understand about the mistakes he made, and this didn't come across in your case on him, Is what motivation could he have for playing so badly? All the other mistakes that have been made in this game to me seem to have been trying to confuse peoples cases, distance themselves from mislynches, cause a mislynch etc.

Thoughts?

[/QUOTE], and then just 2 minutes after Zork's claim he switches to vote for Zork "to avoid a no-lynch". Only 1 person was needed at that point to switch from Zork to me to lynch me, so I don't see how his changing his vote leads away from a no-lynch. Over this, he switches his vote from someone he is convinced is scum to someone he has been defending 3 hours before the deadline, and then stays posting for over an hour. As a townie, I should think that pursuing your best read as much as possible would be the goal. Instead, DP gives up his case with little reasoning except the vaguely pro-town sentiment "To Avoid a No-Lynch". This play is not prescribed by town goals. It is however, a good excuse to jump on what is soon to become an obvious bandwagon. This is a very shady action. The fact that everyone jumped on the obvious fake-claim and voted Zork just makes it seem like this was a way to hide his vote-change.

DP: Why did you change your vote from someone you've been suspicious of literally all game to someone you've only defended, in the middle of a tied vote situation, for the most vague reason possible.

+ Show Spoiler +
Before you call this an OMGUS accusation, remember that DP has literally been tunneling me the entire game. I haven't accused him of anything before now, because his play hadn't struck me as particularly scummy. You could say I'm interested now.
I love the smell of napalm in the morning... it smells like... victory. -_^ Favorite SC2 match ->Liquid`HerO vs. SlayerS CranK g.1 @MLG Summer Championship
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
August 04 2012 20:49 GMT
#942
By the way, since we're kinda up to our neck in WIFOM right now regarding the "case" on me anyways...

Why the hell would I, if I was scum, come into the thread taking some convoluted route of being suspicious of people who weren't under fire? I could have easily taken the easy way out, piled onto Mordanis, and played the "unbiased outsider" card people were handing me to agree with the case against him?

If you think that makes sense from the hypothetical scum me viewpoint, I think I'm going to take it as an insult.
Ange777
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Germany1164 Posts
August 04 2012 20:53 GMT
#943
Because apparently people know your meta and would have called you out directly based on that?
♥ Sen - 台灣之光 ♥
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
August 04 2012 20:57 GMT
#944
On August 05 2012 05:53 Ange777 wrote:
Because apparently people know your meta and would have called you out directly based on that?


Gee, that kinda backs up me saying that there's no point in arguing against WIFOM and confirmation bias. If there's literally nothing I can do to look pro-town in the collective eyes of the sheep, enjoy a wasted lynch.

Everything that had been said against me when I made my case against Alan could be said about him, but more so.

If there's no defense that's acceptable, because everything I do is scummy because WIFOM, you'll understand if I don't give myself a concussion bashing my head against the wall.
Ange777
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Germany1164 Posts
August 04 2012 20:58 GMT
#945
So I guess there is a pretty decent chance that I might be shot tonight. As I already stated I am convinced that we have nailed the second scum in Jingle. Veto the case as much as you want Jingle, there is no way you can wriggle yourself out of this. Extremely obvious scum play like this can't be ignored.

On to the third scum. Based on the theory Shady already mentioned with scum actively trying to counter bandwagon the Zork case there is one more player I think we need to analyze closely. Very much unsuspected by most of the players ... DarthPunk. I believe only goodkarma called him out. Originally I had a town read on him, he came across as a thoughtful poster who analyzed the play of others first before jumping on any kind of bandwagon. Under normal circumstances I probably still wouldn't have noticed him but the recent situation with Zork made me reconsider. See for yourselves:




The first time he mentions the Zork case he says the following:

On August 03 2012 00:00 DarthPunk wrote:
@ ange777.
The zork scumslip combined with his lurky posting habits are certainly cause for suspicion. I don't like his explanation for the statement. He is saying that he looks at certain posts through different roles but does not actually explain the slip at all. What was he trying to say there? It was WIFOM pure and simple. He has not answered the case on him adequately and he has not provided much in the way of cases. The problem with both Zorkmid and aRyuujin is that there is so little to actually make a read from.


He just states that he doesn't have a strong read because Zork is too lurky. He puts Zork and aRyuujin into the same category although Zork has posted far more than aRyuujin. He admits that the slip and the lurking are suspicious, yet he does not take any step in pressuring Zork for more information.


The next time he talks about Zork:

On August 03 2012 12:57 DarthPunk wrote:
on zorkmid
There is a case on Zork. I just feel like it is weaker than the case on Mordanis. Add that to the fact that mord is once again ad hearing to his Modus Operandi.


He says the case is weaker. No reasons. When I ask him for his reasoning:

On August 03 2012 18:40 DarthPunk wrote:
Ok my analysis - ignoring the scum slip which I will get to later.

Zork is playing really badly. He is playing really badly as town OR as scum. He has been confused more than once as to what is happening in the game, who he has suspicions on etc.
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2012 22:02 Zorkmid wrote:
I honestly just forgot about SS, but your accusation has led me to go back through his filter. I've noticed that he has never addressed my accusation about him.


Show nested quote +
On August 03 2012 00:17 Zorkmid wrote:
On August 03 2012 00:00 DarthPunk wrote:
@ ange777.

The zork scumslip combined with his lurky posting habits are certainly cause for suspicion. I don't like his explanation for the statement. He is saying that he looks at certain posts through different roles but does not actually explain the slip at all. What was he trying to say there? It was WIFOM pure and simple. He has not answered the case on him adequately and he has not provided much in the way of cases.


What are you talking about?

I honestly can't see how one person, let alone two people would see this as a slip.

Let me walk you through what I assumed to be pretty straight forward logic.

I believe that no smart green or blue would have made the post that Prom did....but he did, hence I thought that he may be red. I'm speculating on the meaning of Prom's actions based on what I would do, nothing more, nothing less.

I think that most people followed this logic just fine, as it contributed to Prom's mis-lynch.

On August 03 2012 00:00 DarthPunk wrote:The problem with both Zorkmid and aRyuujin is that there is so little to actually make a read from.


I don't post as often as many players, but at least what I do post has some thought behind it.

Which makes me tend to believe him when he says that he is not paying attention to the thread because of IRL commitments. Because why? what are the scum motivations behind his posts? This is still bad play and hurts town. As I said earlier It isn't easy to get a scum read when there has been so little activity from him. His posts make no sense as either scum or town. He is Lurking though. If we get to LYLO and we have nothing to go off in terms of reads that is a major liability.

on the scum slip. @ange777 I don't think your logic is as iron clad as you believe.

Show nested quote +
On July 31 2012 22:46 Zorkmid wrote:
I also think that your "relief post" is strange. It's sort of WIFOM, but I don't think that as a green or blue I would ever post something like that. It's just yelling out "I'm A TOWNIE huehuehue". I wouldn't post it because it reeks of redness


What I think he is trying to say is this. He thinks saying this is scummy. No town player would need to say this, he is town so he wouldn't say it.

It is WIFOM and speculation and is written poorly. (which I hate) yet can't see a scum motivation or plan for this. It is possible that he is scum and that this is the evidence. It is also possible that he is bad at explaining himself, a poor writer and you are reading too much into this.

Your entire case is based around reading a few statements a certain way, and thus seems to be weaker than my case on mordanis and weaker than your case on mordanis (that you seem to have dropped off the face of the earth).

If it comes to a no lynch situation I will be willing to change my vote. (as everyone should be) but at this time the cases on Mordanis are far stronger.

If people are set on lynching lurky players aRyuujin is a stronger lynch IMO. He has less than a one page filter he votes Golbat day 1. went AFK for 2 cycles comes back and puts a vote on mord that just echos my position and then leaves again. I wish we still had a Vig cause aRyuujin has been and will increasingly become a serious liability.


A huge soft defense on Zork. DarthPunk explains that everything I believe makes Zork scummy can be explained as bad town play. Therefore there would be no evidence for lynching Zork and instead we should just lynch aRyuujin if we were after a lurker.

When I again push DarthPunk for more reasons on why he thinks Zork is town he states:

On August 03 2012 20:01 DarthPunk wrote:
When I first saw it last night I saw it the same way that you do, but then I read this.
Show nested quote +
On August 03 2012 00:17 Zorkmid wrote:
I believe that no smart green or blue would have made the post that Prom did....but he did, hence I thought that he may be red. I'm speculating on the meaning of Prom's actions based on what I would do, nothing more, nothing less.


This whilst far from enough to convince me of his innocence, IS a plausible explanation of his slip. I am not comfortable with risking a mislynch on a player based off reading one sentence a certain way when there is a plausible explanation which can cause it to be looked at in a different way. Remember the last 'scumslip' in this game. With golbat? I don't want a repeat of that.
So I need more than the perceived Scumslip to go off on Zorkmid.
-snip-
as I stated previously I can't see any logical motivation to his posting. Although I don't see how having little if any defense at all on a case against him proves his motive one way or another. If he wrote a disproportionate amount in his defense and on closer inspection it contained nothing of substance that would give me a definite scum vibe. but no defense at all? I can't see that helping scum OR town.

If we are going to lynch a lurker which seems to be the other main argument against Zorkmid I would rather lynch the player with a 1 page filter than the one with a 3 page filter.

As for the thing with jingle. I will need to read through it again.


His first sentence says that at first he saw it the same way as I did? But he never once mentioned that in the beginning. He then proceeds to explain that scumslips are not indicative at all as we mislynched Golbat based on a misperceived scumslip. I really don't know which "scumslip" he is referring to. Again he goes on to defend Zork without properly giving any other reason than he might be town. And again he emphasizes that we should really lynch aRyuujin instead. Interesting ...

When I confront him about why I think my discussion with Jingle makes me think that I hit home with the case on Zork he says:

On August 03 2012 23:04 DarthPunk wrote:
So this is just wrong. Jingle started airing suspicions against you well before you started going after zork. In no way is the jingle situation between you and him relevant to the zork case. I don't know why you would draw that connection at all. If you had read the last game you will see that jingle caught scum by Identifying and avoiding a similar situation so it is understandable that he would be on the look out for a repeat of that. Your response to him was OMGUS and WIFOM. I can understand why he finds you suspicious, particularly when you immediately become super aggressive towards him when he posts a case on you. I don't really think you have a case on him to be honest.

I initially had a small town read on you but after actually reading through the discussion between yourself and jingle I am starting to worry about you. Your reaction to jingle's pressure was an incredibly disproportionate response, and trying to draw a connection to a case you posted hours after jingle had first cast suspicion on you is very suspicious to me.
I don't see any connections whatsoever between Jingles pressure on you and your case on zork. I have no idea why you would try and draw a connection that wasn't there. It seems to be OMGUS. but I don't like the fact that several aspects of your case (Jingle connection, MrMedic post) seem to have fallen apart on closer inspection and the fact that many of the other points could just be bad town play, makes me even more wary of following your lynch on Zork. It seems like it is just an attempt to make an easy mislynch on a lurky bad town player.


He explains that he now believes me scummy and that my replys were disproportinate. And does not explain what exactly made him change his mind. He further states that he can't see any kind of scum motivation for a scum Jingle to tunnel me and discredit me when I am pushing the case on scum Zork. But he was able to see so much town motivation for Zork's play to defend him over and over again. And again he mentions that I am trying to get a lurker lynched while I have repeatedly said that my main reason for lynching Zork is not his semi-lurking.

Next is his vote switch timing. It's very close to Zork's fake medic claim. Very very close.

On August 04 2012 03:05 Zorkmid wrote:
I didn't want to have to do this just yet.

I am a Doctor


On August 04 2012 03:07 DarthPunk wrote:
so are we headed towards a no lynch now? I did say I would change my vote to zorkmid to stop a nolynch. Although I think he is probably just a bad town.

I find it unbelievable mord is escaping a lynch once again.

##:Unvote
##:vote: zorkmid


The timing is so close that I could say that scum discussed their situation in the scum QT and decided to concede in the Zork lynch. Why would DarthPunk otherwise switch his vote? There was still a lot of time for him to potentially convince others to vote for Mordanis. This is no last minute vote switch just to ensure that there is a majority at the deadline. And it's not like he was heading to bed anyway and needed to put the vote on Zork before leaving as he was still awake an hour later.

On August 04 2012 04:16 DarthPunk wrote:
Right it's 5am and I have stayed up far too long. night all.


I believe that the scum team was desperately trying to save Zork. Which is exactly why our thread suddenly exploded when the case on Zork started. So scum definitely went all in with their defense for Zork. I see a lot of scum motivation for DarthPunk to over and over push for the Mordanis lynch, to discredit the Zork case as a lurker case, to soft defend Zork and to try to convince town into compromise into lynching aRyuujin instead.


So after Zork and Jingle, my third scum member would be DarthPunk. I have seen the cases against alan and aRyuujin and while there are some valid points I believe it is more likely for DarthPunk to flip red than those two. If DarthPunk were to flip green, alan would be my first scum pick and aRyuujin my last scum pick. I have to admit though that aRyuujin is behind alan due to the fact that his excessive lurking has left me with little to analyze and therefore I am not that confident in his alignment.

Edit: Mordanis ninja'd my case. I didn't want to post that early before deadline.
♥ Sen - 台灣之光 ♥
Mordanis
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States893 Posts
August 04 2012 21:00 GMT
#946
Damnit, sorry........ Glad to know that we agree again though :D
I love the smell of napalm in the morning... it smells like... victory. -_^ Favorite SC2 match ->Liquid`HerO vs. SlayerS CranK g.1 @MLG Summer Championship
ghost_403
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1825 Posts
August 04 2012 21:01 GMT
#947
End of Night 3



[image loading]
Figure 5. His final thought was "That sure is a funny sign".


Alan133 had a particular set of skills: skills he had acquired over a very long career. Skills that make him a hero for a small group of people who desired to have pianos located on the upper floors of their homes. Alan133 never really understood this particular impulse, but he knew that these people happened to pay very well. He was even getting paid extra this particular night, as this customer asked that his crew would come after seven oclock at night. Money was money, and Alan133 could definitely use it.

So there he was, with three other guys, hoisting this piano up the third floor of the owner's building. Just as they were about ready to start moving the piano horizontally into the apartment, Alan133 looked down to see someone walk directly below the piano. "What the $%& is that guy thinking" Alan133 wondered to himself. The caution tape, orange cones, and giant sign that warned of falling pianos should have made it clear to anyone within a hundred miles that this was not where you should be.

"Hey! Get out of there!" Alan133 yelled at the man below.

Mordanis looked up.

A single shot ran out.

The rope snapped.

Mordanis the Vanilla Townie was crushed to death!



Day 4 has begun! You have 48 hours to vote for the next lynch.

As a reminder, there are no clues this game. All names used in this post are strictly for flavor.
They say great science is built on the shoulders of giants. Not here. At Aperture, we do all our science from scratch, no hand holding. Step aside, REAL SCIENCE coming through.
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5955 Posts
August 04 2012 21:01 GMT
#948
LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
Ange777
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Germany1164 Posts
August 04 2012 21:02 GMT
#949
GG Mordanis

##Vote JingleHell
♥ Sen - 台灣之光 ♥
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
August 04 2012 21:03 GMT
#950
Well, whoever RBed me seems to have failed to stop the NK. Good job.
Ange777
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Germany1164 Posts
August 04 2012 21:06 GMT
#951
On August 05 2012 06:03 JingleHell wrote:
Well, whoever RBed me seems to have failed to stop the NK. Good job.


If you can get anyone to claim having RBed you, than congrats we've got the third scum.
♥ Sen - 台灣之光 ♥
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
August 04 2012 21:08 GMT
#952
On August 05 2012 06:06 Ange777 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2012 06:03 JingleHell wrote:
Well, whoever RBed me seems to have failed to stop the NK. Good job.


If you can get anyone to claim having RBed you, than congrats we've got the third scum.


Why would a scum have RBed me if I'm such a blatant scum, Ange? Why not a Town RB? Wouldn't that make more sense?
Shady Sands
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4021 Posts
August 04 2012 21:09 GMT
#953
On August 05 2012 06:03 JingleHell wrote:
Well, whoever RBed me seems to have failed to stop the NK. Good job.


Because obviously in a town of 13, we would have 3 scum, 1 medic, 2 masons, AND a roleblocker. Gee, that's realistic.

Anyhow, very glad that scum was not able to find the medic.
Что?
Ange777
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Germany1164 Posts
August 04 2012 21:11 GMT
#954
On August 05 2012 06:08 JingleHell wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2012 06:06 Ange777 wrote:
On August 05 2012 06:03 JingleHell wrote:
Well, whoever RBed me seems to have failed to stop the NK. Good job.


If you can get anyone to claim having RBed you, than congrats we've got the third scum.


Why would a scum have RBed me if I'm such a blatant scum, Ange? Why not a Town RB? Wouldn't that make more sense?


Because I am pretty sure you are just fake claiming your RB to survive this day. Zork claimed doc, therefore scum know that it was a doc who prevented the night 1 kill and not a roleblocker. With 1 doc, 1 vig and 2 masons I don't think there is another town power role.
♥ Sen - 台灣之光 ♥
Ange777
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Germany1164 Posts
August 04 2012 21:11 GMT
#955
I'm ninja'd again ... :D
♥ Sen - 台灣之光 ♥
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
August 04 2012 21:13 GMT
#956
On August 05 2012 06:11 Ange777 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2012 06:08 JingleHell wrote:
On August 05 2012 06:06 Ange777 wrote:
On August 05 2012 06:03 JingleHell wrote:
Well, whoever RBed me seems to have failed to stop the NK. Good job.


If you can get anyone to claim having RBed you, than congrats we've got the third scum.


Why would a scum have RBed me if I'm such a blatant scum, Ange? Why not a Town RB? Wouldn't that make more sense?


Because I am pretty sure you are just fake claiming your RB to survive this day. Zork claimed doc, therefore scum know that it was a doc who prevented the night 1 kill and not a roleblocker. With 1 doc, 1 vig and 2 masons I don't think there is another town power role.


Well, I guess newbie games are a great place to learn how not to make a case, glad to have helped you learn why WIFOM is a piss-poor alternative to actual scum-hunting.
Shady Sands
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4021 Posts
August 04 2012 21:14 GMT
#957
EBWOP: Let's not forget the vigi we lynched D1 too.
Что?
Ange777
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Germany1164 Posts
August 04 2012 21:15 GMT
#958
On August 05 2012 06:13 JingleHell wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2012 06:11 Ange777 wrote:
On August 05 2012 06:08 JingleHell wrote:
On August 05 2012 06:06 Ange777 wrote:
On August 05 2012 06:03 JingleHell wrote:
Well, whoever RBed me seems to have failed to stop the NK. Good job.


If you can get anyone to claim having RBed you, than congrats we've got the third scum.


Why would a scum have RBed me if I'm such a blatant scum, Ange? Why not a Town RB? Wouldn't that make more sense?


Because I am pretty sure you are just fake claiming your RB to survive this day. Zork claimed doc, therefore scum know that it was a doc who prevented the night 1 kill and not a roleblocker. With 1 doc, 1 vig and 2 masons I don't think there is another town power role.


Well, I guess newbie games are a great place to learn how not to make a case, glad to have helped you learn why WIFOM is a piss-poor alternative to actual scum-hunting.


Are you talking to yourself?
♥ Sen - 台灣之光 ♥
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
August 04 2012 21:16 GMT
#959
On August 05 2012 06:15 Ange777 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2012 06:13 JingleHell wrote:
On August 05 2012 06:11 Ange777 wrote:
On August 05 2012 06:08 JingleHell wrote:
On August 05 2012 06:06 Ange777 wrote:
On August 05 2012 06:03 JingleHell wrote:
Well, whoever RBed me seems to have failed to stop the NK. Good job.


If you can get anyone to claim having RBed you, than congrats we've got the third scum.


Why would a scum have RBed me if I'm such a blatant scum, Ange? Why not a Town RB? Wouldn't that make more sense?


Because I am pretty sure you are just fake claiming your RB to survive this day. Zork claimed doc, therefore scum know that it was a doc who prevented the night 1 kill and not a roleblocker. With 1 doc, 1 vig and 2 masons I don't think there is another town power role.


Well, I guess newbie games are a great place to learn how not to make a case, glad to have helped you learn why WIFOM is a piss-poor alternative to actual scum-hunting.


Are you talking to yourself?


No, but childish responses instead of introspection really just help cement in my mind that trying to convince you I'm town is a waste of my precious time. I'll just watch the thread, and laugh hysterically. Sound good?
Ange777
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Germany1164 Posts
August 04 2012 21:17 GMT
#960
On August 05 2012 06:16 JingleHell wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2012 06:15 Ange777 wrote:
On August 05 2012 06:13 JingleHell wrote:
On August 05 2012 06:11 Ange777 wrote:
On August 05 2012 06:08 JingleHell wrote:
On August 05 2012 06:06 Ange777 wrote:
On August 05 2012 06:03 JingleHell wrote:
Well, whoever RBed me seems to have failed to stop the NK. Good job.


If you can get anyone to claim having RBed you, than congrats we've got the third scum.


Why would a scum have RBed me if I'm such a blatant scum, Ange? Why not a Town RB? Wouldn't that make more sense?


Because I am pretty sure you are just fake claiming your RB to survive this day. Zork claimed doc, therefore scum know that it was a doc who prevented the night 1 kill and not a roleblocker. With 1 doc, 1 vig and 2 masons I don't think there is another town power role.


Well, I guess newbie games are a great place to learn how not to make a case, glad to have helped you learn why WIFOM is a piss-poor alternative to actual scum-hunting.


Are you talking to yourself?


No, but childish responses instead of introspection really just help cement in my mind that trying to convince you I'm town is a waste of my precious time. I'll just watch the thread, and laugh hysterically. Sound good?


That's perfectly fine with me. I sincerely hope you'll have a good time.
♥ Sen - 台灣之光 ♥
Prev 1 46 47 48 49 50 68 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL: GosuLeague
19:00
RO16 SWISS - Round 3
Semih vs cavapoo
Hejek vs TousaN
ZZZero.O119
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft335
Livibee 180
JuggernautJason143
CosmosSc2 32
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 123
ZZZero.O 119
Dota 2
febbydoto12
Counter-Strike
fl0m1572
Stewie2K1094
flusha645
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0286
AZ_Axe106
Heroes of the Storm
Grubby4730
Other Games
tarik_tv12379
summit1g9990
mouzStarbuck306
ToD218
ViBE197
Maynarde71
NightEnD39
RuFF_SC236
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 23 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• kabyraGe 241
• RyuSc2 56
• davetesta34
• musti20045 31
• Migwel
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 26
• Eskiya23 19
• HerbMon 8
• Diggity2
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21917
• Ler120
League of Legends
• Doublelift3830
Other Games
• imaqtpie2238
• Scarra1068
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Monday
1h 28m
GSL Code S
10h 58m
Cure vs Zoun
Solar vs Creator
The PondCast
11h 28m
Road to EWC
11h 28m
Online Event
16h 28m
Clem vs ShoWTimE
herO vs MaxPax
HupCup
16h 28m
Road to EWC
17h 28m
Road to EWC
23h 28m
GSL Code S
1d 10h
GuMiho vs Bunny
ByuN vs SHIN
Road to EWC
1d 11h
[ Show More ]
Online Event
1d 13h
Road to EWC
1d 17h
Road to EWC
1d 23h
Replay Cast
2 days
Road to EWC
2 days
Road to EWC
2 days
Road to EWC
2 days
Road to EWC
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
Road to EWC
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Road to EWC
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 19
DreamHack Dallas 2025
Calamity Stars S2

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
YSL S1
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL Season 17: Qualifier 1
Heroes 10 EU
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025
ESL Pro League S21

Upcoming

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLAN 2025
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2025
2025 GSL S2
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.