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On October 18 2012 11:00 StarVconvoY wrote:
Oh the Oracle. I'm also glad this is changing. There is nothing like playing against another Protoss in unranked and thinking, "This isn't doing anything, is this?" about Entomb.
Probably a .001% chance Blizz would see this, but it's worth mentioning to see what you all think:
How about a spell that takes a second to cast that cloaks/mind controls an enemy unit. After 5 or 8 seconds, it uncloaks does AOE damage (45) centered around it and returns under the enemy's control. If the unit is killed before it decloaks, no explosion.
This improves upon Entomb...
-This would mean a more permanent threat to mineral lines.
-Similar to the detection needed for battling Widow Mines.
-Micro intensive (you can see the blur of a worker that's been phased and run the heck away!)
-A way to break siege lines with heavy units
Problems
-its yet another aoe for protoss.
-If you controlled an enemy caster, it wouldn't be able to use spells- that'd be way to good.
-very good anti-air (mutalisks)
Where do I go in the beta forums to post this, lol?
So, you want to be able to take an enemy unit out of combat for 5-8 seconds? Think about what this will do to early game small group battles...
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My Idea would be:
- to give Oracle the Void Siphon at a lower cost(no initial cost but a energy drain)
- a pretty high range( maybe 7 would be good) and it should be allowed to fly everywhere in that 7 radius to "dodge" the defenders like marines etc.
- (Maybe a charge system like Voidrays would be appropriate)
So a good player would dodge for quite sometimes until the player reacts (defender has a potential to deny it quite a bit with his own micro) and therefore charge the Void Siphon and make more cash.
A bad player would a) die instantly b) leave fast and therefore gets less cash
but I would work in low leagues fine because the defender needs around the same amount of micro as the attacker.
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This is what I like to see. They tried several variants of entomb and now have decided to try something different. :D
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On October 18 2012 21:50 Maxyim wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 11:00 StarVconvoY wrote:
Oh the Oracle. I'm also glad this is changing. There is nothing like playing against another Protoss in unranked and thinking, "This isn't doing anything, is this?" about Entomb.
Probably a .001% chance Blizz would see this, but it's worth mentioning to see what you all think:
How about a spell that takes a second to cast that cloaks/mind controls an enemy unit. After 5 or 8 seconds, it uncloaks does AOE damage (45) centered around it and returns under the enemy's control. If the unit is killed before it decloaks, no explosion.
This improves upon Entomb...
-This would mean a more permanent threat to mineral lines.
-Similar to the detection needed for battling Widow Mines.
-Micro intensive (you can see the blur of a worker that's been phased and run the heck away!)
-A way to break siege lines with heavy units
Problems
-its yet another aoe for protoss.
-If you controlled an enemy caster, it wouldn't be able to use spells- that'd be way to good.
-very good anti-air (mutalisks)
Where do I go in the beta forums to post this, lol? So, you want to be able to take an enemy unit out of combat for 5-8 seconds? Think about what this will do to early game small group battles...
Graviton Beam (Edit: Spelling)
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I guess they deserve props for their willingness to at least change the new units. I don't care how long and laborious the beta is (I'm guessing this will be some sort of record by the time it's done; at least I hope it will), I just want the finished product to be good.
An idea to accomplish what they want would be to make entomb a channeled ability, that could either block minerals or neutralize a building for an indefinite time (until the defender deals with them or you run out of mana).
Not the best idea in the world I guess :p But at least you'd need to maneuver the unit through defenses. You would split them, target different things to make it harder to deal with them.
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On October 18 2012 23:08 DeCoup wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 21:50 Maxyim wrote:On October 18 2012 11:00 StarVconvoY wrote:
Oh the Oracle. I'm also glad this is changing. There is nothing like playing against another Protoss in unranked and thinking, "This isn't doing anything, is this?" about Entomb.
Probably a .001% chance Blizz would see this, but it's worth mentioning to see what you all think:
How about a spell that takes a second to cast that cloaks/mind controls an enemy unit. After 5 or 8 seconds, it uncloaks does AOE damage (45) centered around it and returns under the enemy's control. If the unit is killed before it decloaks, no explosion.
This improves upon Entomb...
-This would mean a more permanent threat to mineral lines.
-Similar to the detection needed for battling Widow Mines.
-Micro intensive (you can see the blur of a worker that's been phased and run the heck away!)
-A way to break siege lines with heavy units
Problems
-its yet another aoe for protoss.
-If you controlled an enemy caster, it wouldn't be able to use spells- that'd be way to good.
-very good anti-air (mutalisks)
Where do I go in the beta forums to post this, lol? So, you want to be able to take an enemy unit out of combat for 5-8 seconds? Think about what this will do to early game small group battles... Graviton Beam (Edit: Spelling)
You are comparing a channeled ability that takes your own 150/100 unit out of the battle with a fire-and-forget "stun" from a 150/150 unit that has added functionality (read - retreat, scouting, using other abilities) during the duration.
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On October 18 2012 09:46 SarcasmMonster wrote:So vague. Let's give them suggestions  I propose a Lightning shield (from WC3) + Defensive matrix hybrid spell. A single Zealot infused with Lightning-shield-matrix in the mineral line would be so awesome Promotes small group tactics. Show nested quote +1. We agree with our community that Entomb is not a spectator friendly ability because it's so easy to execute and is targeted at only 1 location (minerals). At least they're catching on.
I quite like this direction. As a Zerg I would hate to play against that, which is probably a good sign.
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Oracle should live up to its name and help the Protoss to see things and assist in map awareness. How about:
- Keep Revelation
- 2nd ability that when turned on gives the Toss player vision around the Oracle equal to that of a watch tower. Cost a small amount of energy to activate and uses energy while active (like cloak).
- 3rd ability that Sends out a detection 'ping' that reaches the same radius as a Terran sensor tower and shows mini-map blips for every unit in range (including cloaked/burrowed units). Lasts for a few seconds only and costs energy to cast.
I think these abilities would greatly assist the Protoss without overlapping the functions of the observer too much.
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Abiltiy for The Oracle:
ill Omens, 50 energy: target area; units in the area have their movement reduced by 99% for 2 seconds, they then regain 33% of there movement speed each second until the spell wares off (for a 5 seconds total duration of the spell).
Versatile spell that offers strong support to the army and some harass (can be used to slow down mineral and gas income a little)
Void Syphon now syphons energy from the target, can leach energy from enemy orbitals/nexii/queens as well as units to give some more army usage and means too harass while staying worker friendly.
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Finally. The trouble is even if they make the oracle better/more interesting, it will still build from the SG which is a dedicated harass tech path. Either there needs to be a respectable combat unit on SG tech or the oracle needs to build from the robo.
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On October 19 2012 00:43 kcdc wrote:
Finally. The trouble is even if they make the oracle better/more interesting, it will still build from the SG which is a dedicated harass tech path. Either there needs to be a respectable combat unit on SG tech or the oracle needs to build from the robo.
Maybe the 3rd ability could be something that would help it support your army in a fight. Some people suggested a healing ability, which might be an interesting direction to look at. I think an aoe healing might work if it isn't too powerful. Make it affect an area rather than units, to make it more interesting in terms of positioning, to make it more interesting to retreat with damaged units, etc.
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only took them a half year to realize how fucking awful entomb is. Glad to see they're not as slow as I thought.
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Let void siphon only target cc/nexus/hatcheries, and instead of doing damage to gain minerals, have it steal half of all resources returned to that base while it's channeling.
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Just make a flying reaver and you will make everyone happy !!
I know give the oracle an overcharge ability
It takes 1-3 (balance) casting time and it will make damage over area.
The idea is that it can destroy enemy workers if you are not aware of it
Doesnt stack in deadballs because the AoE is around the oracle and they can easily be killed when close to enemy deadball or dodge
I am such a good progammer xD
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On October 19 2012 01:00 MilesTeg wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 00:43 kcdc wrote:
Finally. The trouble is even if they make the oracle better/more interesting, it will still build from the SG which is a dedicated harass tech path. Either there needs to be a respectable combat unit on SG tech or the oracle needs to build from the robo. Maybe the 3rd ability could be something that would help it support your army in a fight. Some people suggested a healing ability, which might be an interesting direction to look at. I think an aoe healing might work if it isn't too powerful. Make it affect an area rather than units, to make it more interesting in terms of positioning, to make it more interesting to retreat with damaged units, etc.
Except that what you get from the other tech paths which allows you to do something is a *damage* buff. This is needed because the only protoss unit which actually deals any significant damage is also the one you can most easily run away from. Thus, when the Colossus or Templar come out, Protoss can breath easier, because they can both deal and take damage. AoE healing just means protoss can take more damage (and not much more if your opponent is focusing fire). AoE healing also comes with the problem of likely being overpowered if used on units which deal high damage (like the colossus) to make them units which can stand by themselves (since they can also take high damage).
I'd much prefer something which did damage (but wasn't too good against marines/hydras), which amplified the damage of gateway units (preferably not en masse to avoid the gateway/colossus/oracle deathball), which gave zealots a higher range to their attack, or which made photon cannons more usable.
Alternatively, as I suggested in the lockdown thread, a unit which could do an AE slow or immobilize might be nice (though you might have to be careful of immobilizing things like vikings and corruptors to prevent abuse - maybe targetting ground only?
On October 19 2012 00:43 kcdc wrote:
Finally. The trouble is even if they make the oracle better/more interesting, it will still build from the SG which is a dedicated harass tech path. Either there needs to be a respectable combat unit on SG tech or the oracle needs to build from the robo.
Building from the Robo might be neat. You probably saw my response to the "respectable combat unit" part in the other thread - I won't repost here, but basically it's really, really hard to have a unit which is actually good at thwarting early game armies and flies - since a lot of early game armies have the basic ground to air unit in it.
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my 3rd spell:
-phase shift that cost 25 energy, it makes a FF (with HP and a timer) on the structure that is targeted and it can be broken by the enemy units.
-the targeted structure can't attack, move, produce, research, detect, cast skills, etc until the FF is destroyed.
the skill can be used to:
-help units to harass bases that are only protected by static defense.
-great synergy with phoenix harass.
-deny detection from OC or static defense for a short time.
-harass the enemy gas income.
-delay upgrades.
-delay tech.
-no use in deathball.
the FF's HP and timer can be adjusted till balance is achieved. would recommend starting with 100HP/10s
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edit: delete comment mod sorry!
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Void Siphon - STEALS minerals from enemy stockpile and adds to your own. Castable on enemy buildings and able to move while casting, however movement is slowed by 50%.
Distort Space - Emits a powerful wave of force, in which all projectiles caught in its radius gets slowed down by 75%, allowing the player to avoid them if fast enough. Instant damage such as marine attacks will also be slowed to be caught in this force too. Melee attacks remain the same even within the distortion.
Black Hole - Targets a small radius in which all units caught in the black hole, will be slowed down by 50%.
Regenerator - Summons a pillar of energy which creates a medium sized circle, in which all units will slowly regenerate their health (not shields). This also will heal hostile terran and zerg units, therfore creating a "point of interest area" which opponents may fight over, and which may backfire on the Protoss who summoned the pillar.
Preservation - Teleports 1 friendly unit to the nearest Nexus
Soul Link - Links the health and shields of all nearby units, in which they all take equal damage from incoming damage. This will ultimately make each individual unit survive longer, but may result in them all dying simultaneously.
Glide - Suspends a small radius of friendly units into the air, allowing ground units to temporarily fly and move as a flying unit would. Last 10 seconds and breaks on damage taken. Melee units may not attack from the air (including enemy aircrafts), however ranged units may continue to shoot as per usual.
Surge - Summons a small totem-like object which pulses every few seconds. Each pulse will heal each unit in its radius by 10% of its total health. Also heals enemy units if close enough. The totem will pulse 5 times, once every 3 seconds, however after the full elapsed time (15 seconds), the totem will violently explode from an oversurge of energy - dealing 100 damage to any nearby unit including friendlies. The totem changes color after each pulse so that players are aware of how long they have left.
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I wonder why it took them so long to realize entomb is boring. We've been saying this since it was reveiled at MLG.
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How about entomb is renamed to "encrust". Cast on single mineral patches it creates a crust of 200 fake minerals that generate no income when mined. The crust can be destroyed or mined to access the underlying mineral patch again.Affected mineral patches have a green kryptonite like green glow!
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EPT
