We are seeing Mothership Core be moderately effective at early harrassment, but that is obviously of limited use with Queens. The current Oracle we are testing almost always denies the Zerg player's 3rd, which is interesting and may help you in applying pressure to the Zerg.

Dustin Browder

Will PvZ actually have a midgame?

SC2ShoWTimE

Germany722 Posts

October 23 2012 20:07 GMT

#162

will be interesting to see how they changed the oracle. denying the 3rd base sounds super powerful. really wondering what abilities they gave to the oracle now o.O

theBlues

El Salvador638 Posts

October 23 2012 20:20 GMT

#163

Transform entomb into stasis field from broodwar. Problem solved, after that make the hellbat come out of the barracks and let the hellion deploy the mine. Also the swarmhost now deals splash damage in a single direction with limited range. The medivac can also come out of the barracks and walk and be biologic.

Decendos

Germany1338 Posts

October 23 2012 20:23 GMT

#164

so 2 base zvt and zvp. sounds like zerg is fucked

ibraishome

Germany337 Posts

October 23 2012 20:28 GMT

#165

Maybe the Oracle gets an ability, which will prevent the opponent from building something in a specific area for some time.

NoMicroWin

United States688 Posts

October 23 2012 21:07 GMT

#166

On October 24 2012 05:20 theBlues wrote:
Transform entomb into stasis field from broodwar. Problem solved, after that make the hellbat come out of the barracks and let the hellion deploy the mine. Also the swarmhost now deals splash damage in a single direction with limited range. The medivac can also come out of the barracks and walk and be biologic.

hey look! lets remake the same game it took 10 years to balance so you and everyone else that played broodwar can not try a different game. sc2 is sc2, bw is bw. if you dont like sc2, dont play it.

JackReacher

United States197 Posts

October 23 2012 22:07 GMT

#167

What about if Oracle had a Vortex-like spell (call it "Gravity Field" for discussion) that works basically like Vortex, only instead of pulling units into a hole, it just pulls them to the center and holds them there for a few seconds and then lets them go. To balance, it would probably have to be a channeling ability like Graviton beam. It would stop mining time by pulling a lot of enemy workers together for a few seconds (equivalent of them having to pull all probes), which is nice worker harassment without being OP in killing workers early game. It would have to work only on infantry-type units; I would say bio, but I mean like workers, Marines Ghosts Marauders, Gateway units+Immortals, basically no air units or massive units (possible no casters).

The best part - in mid, and even late-game, it could be used in conjunction with Storm drops to use Gravity field to pull workers into one spot and storm them - the same thing could be done to hold Marines/Marauders in place so Zealots can attack/surround them, or instead, pin them in place if you need to run. Depending on when in the tech tree this comes, this could mean Protoss no longer needs forcefields. Protoss could hold units in place to stop them from kiting for a LIMITED time, or stick units to a spot to run away, without given the ability to freely manipulate the terrain to whatever happens to suit them. Or perhaps this ability would be better off just given to the sentry?

I honestly think this could fix Protoss and give a way to get rid of forcefield, or at least change it significantly. What do you guys think? Good idea?

gedatsu

1286 Posts

October 23 2012 22:59 GMT

#168

On October 24 2012 06:07 NoMicroWin wrote:

Show nested quote +

hey look! lets remake the same game it took 10 years to balance so you and everyone else that played broodwar can not try a different game. sc2 is sc2, bw is bw. if you dont like sc2, dont play it.

what a dumb comment. sc2 is sc2, bw is bw. if you don't like sc2, don't play it. but if you don't like hots, give suggestions to improve it. do you understand the point of a beta?

NoMicroWin

United States688 Posts

October 23 2012 23:03 GMT

#169

On October 24 2012 07:59 gedatsu wrote:

Show nested quote +

what a dumb comment. sc2 is sc2, bw is bw. if you don't like sc2, don't play it. but if you don't like hots, give suggestions to improve it. do you understand the point of a beta?

yes I do. I would rather have a beta thats based off turnng hots into its own game, not bw 2.0. im all for making things less deathball vs deathball and gimmick vs gimmick, but remaking broodwar isnt the way to do it.

gedatsu

1286 Posts

October 24 2012 01:51 GMT

#170

Nobody is remaking, or giving suggestions to remaking, bw.

a176

Canada6688 Posts

October 24 2012 01:57 GMT

#171

On October 24 2012 04:48 SarcasmMonster wrote:

Show nested quote +

Dustin Browder

Will PvZ actually have a midgame?

how will protoss have oracle out when zerg takes third at 20~ supply? lol

also, do they not realize why every zerg downvoted taldarim?

Crawdad

614 Posts

October 24 2012 03:07 GMT

#172

On October 24 2012 04:48 SarcasmMonster wrote:

Show nested quote +

Dustin Browder

Will PvZ actually have a midgame?

I almost spit out my drink when I saw this, it might be the most hilariously grandiose statement Browder has made throughout the whole beta. Then again, there's also the possibility that his analysis is spot-on, which would mean...

Oh god.

bioSLOTH

1 Post

October 24 2012 09:42 GMT

#173

I'm hoping that blizzard have listened to these forums and use this opportunity to reinvent the sentry by replacing it with the oracle. With the right spells, it has the potential to be a spell caster that is both useful in harass and main armies, unlike sentry and oracle atm. The fact that it's an air unit will a) make it's impact more obvious to spectators b) make micro a lot funner and c) get protoss into the early game air mindset that hard to buy in WoL. I think this would be the single most important change to protoss Blizz could make.

Now for funsies, here's how i'd kit out the sentroracle:
- Guardian shield: i don't think anyone has a problem with this spell. It's well balanced, counter-able, looks cool. Maybe make it a skill shot cast over an area.
- Unit slow: something to replace OP forcefields, that would make a good harass spell. i read somewhere else someone suggested a damage-when-moving spell. this would also make great harass tool and be useful in fights.
- Farsight: some spell that grants extended vision around sentroracle. Good for scouting, battle positioning, etc.
- One more, perhaps upgradable.

Chronopolis

Canada1484 Posts

October 25 2012 21:10 GMT

#174

I say just stick with the building destruction skill but make it double as strong (or something to that effect). Then you can harrass with 4-5 phenonix and 1-2 oracles by running pheonix in to tank damage while orcales kill the 1 - 2ish turrets, while turrets target pheonix (blizzard should make turrets fire on both units at equal priority to make this viable).

The problem is the oracle be an anti light unit because that's what the pheonix is, and it can't be a heavy hitter air to ground because its supposed to be a harrass unit. So, why don't we just let it synergize with the pheonix. Atm phoenix harrass seems very 1-dimensonal because the knee jerk reaction is 1-2 spores/turrets, which shutdown pheonix harrass pretty handily.

Protoss can't use voidrays to harrass because their slow. More importantly void rays can't (and shouldn't) be able to run away from vikings and corrupters.

Now the protoss has an option to build just oracles or orcacle/pheonix (a heavy investment), or just phoenix. In all these cases, the best response by terran is probably, get no turrets but more unit anti air, get lots of turrets or turrets + unit aa, or just get a few turrets, respectively. This nuance adds depth to the stargate option, there are soft counters now.

Think about mutas picking off turrets before being driven back by the marines. It threatens later damage. Phoenix/oracle does.

------------------------------------
As a side note, with doubly powered oracales, they might make mid-late game extremely exciting on the rare occasion in which a player does mass a fair number of them (lets say 10). They now become sheer glass cannons, laying waste to bases at 400 dps. Turrets versus oracles will be an interesting relation, 10 doubly-powered orcales can kill 5 turrets in around 5 seconds. however during that time turrets deal (15turret*sec x27dps) = 405 damage, taking out maybe 2 oracles.

However, they tie up a whopping 30 supply. 1500min/gas, and a chain fungal or emps could be a real kick in the balls to the protoss.

Also, now the opponent has two options, thus the excitement, mass expand and put absurd amounts of aa defense because the opponent doesn't have a large enough standing army to attack you. OR, just go the attack on an expansion or just the straight up go-kill-him right now.

Not scouting 7 oracles is like not scouting 5 carriers. You're going to be in a world of hurt.

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