|
On October 21 2012 20:34 gedatsu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 11:19 SnareSpectre wrote:On October 21 2012 05:27 gedatsu wrote:On October 21 2012 03:41 SnareSpectre wrote:It's not very different from anything else, in fact it's very similar to Abduct. The only similarity it shares with abduct is that it moves enemy units from one place to another. Abduct would never be used for harass because it costs too much energy to only hit one unit. The Oracle would have to be directly over the units it plans on relocating, and the teleporting would have to take place within a certain time frame to keep it somewhat balanced. Abduct is a long-range projectile, so you can pull things from outside of harm's way...the Oracle has to be directly on top of units, so it can't just render groups of marines useless without dying. If there was still the threat of overlap, you could just make it not be able to move massive units. Yeah and the only similarity that Brood Lord shares with Guardian from BW is that they're both slow flying zerg units with long range that are created by mutating another zerg flying units. Very different from each other. You can abduct your own banelings into the enemy's mineral line. You said something about never using it for harass? I'm not concerned with similarities of units from an entirely different game, only the game at hand. Who cares if there is a similarity between a Brood Lord and a Guardian? And yes, you can abduct banelings into the opponent's mineral line, but saying that is a viable harass option is almost like saying you can use infestors to NP an SCV, then the SCV can tech up to medivacs and marines for harass. It's a round-about way of doing things that would never be effective in an actual game. Why use so much energy on a hive-tech unit to get banelings into someone's mineral line when you can just drop them 4 at a time from an overlord at lair tech? If you disagree with the idea, I'm cool with it, but there's really no reason to troll. You're missing the entire point, or trying to avoid it. You can say "the only similarity is" about anything. You said it about two things which are, at their core, very similar to each other. I tried to make you see this absurdity by using another example of two things that are very similar. It's not trolling, it's using an example to get my point across. You tried to do it yourself with your infestor thing. Although that example was extremely far from the thing you were trying to liken it to. Maybe that's just a thing you do, confusing "similar" with "different".
There's a lot of irony in you telling me I'm missing the entire point, when you've derailed this conversation from the very beginning. I'll make it more clear - if you're here to troll and just disagree for the fun of it, go troll someone else's post or get on reddit. I'm here to have a good-natured discussion.
|
On October 21 2012 03:59 sona wrote:
Giving oracle an irradiate spell (SV from sc1) would be epic and could give rise to interesting tactics. But call it ionize
1. Use it to harass mineral lines (eraser technique or individual target)
2. Use it with the army to get rid of important targets like HT/Ghost/Infestors
3. Fight units that clump up (Vikings, broodlords, phoenixes)
This will give a reason to build oracles for the WHOLE game. Another spell that could be added is recharge - charge the shields of nearby units or buildings like a sheild battery from sc1.
I like this idea in it's entirety.
|
On October 22 2012 10:19 SnareSpectre wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 20:34 gedatsu wrote:On October 21 2012 11:19 SnareSpectre wrote:On October 21 2012 05:27 gedatsu wrote:On October 21 2012 03:41 SnareSpectre wrote:It's not very different from anything else, in fact it's very similar to Abduct. The only similarity it shares with abduct is that it moves enemy units from one place to another. Abduct would never be used for harass because it costs too much energy to only hit one unit. The Oracle would have to be directly over the units it plans on relocating, and the teleporting would have to take place within a certain time frame to keep it somewhat balanced. Abduct is a long-range projectile, so you can pull things from outside of harm's way...the Oracle has to be directly on top of units, so it can't just render groups of marines useless without dying. If there was still the threat of overlap, you could just make it not be able to move massive units. Yeah and the only similarity that Brood Lord shares with Guardian from BW is that they're both slow flying zerg units with long range that are created by mutating another zerg flying units. Very different from each other. You can abduct your own banelings into the enemy's mineral line. You said something about never using it for harass? I'm not concerned with similarities of units from an entirely different game, only the game at hand. Who cares if there is a similarity between a Brood Lord and a Guardian? And yes, you can abduct banelings into the opponent's mineral line, but saying that is a viable harass option is almost like saying you can use infestors to NP an SCV, then the SCV can tech up to medivacs and marines for harass. It's a round-about way of doing things that would never be effective in an actual game. Why use so much energy on a hive-tech unit to get banelings into someone's mineral line when you can just drop them 4 at a time from an overlord at lair tech? If you disagree with the idea, I'm cool with it, but there's really no reason to troll. You're missing the entire point, or trying to avoid it. You can say "the only similarity is" about anything. You said it about two things which are, at their core, very similar to each other. I tried to make you see this absurdity by using another example of two things that are very similar. It's not trolling, it's using an example to get my point across. You tried to do it yourself with your infestor thing. Although that example was extremely far from the thing you were trying to liken it to. Maybe that's just a thing you do, confusing "similar" with "different". There's a lot of irony in you telling me I'm missing the entire point, when you've derailed this conversation from the very beginning. I'll make it more clear - if you're here to troll and just disagree for the fun of it, go troll someone else's post or get on reddit. I'm here to have a good-natured discussion.
Well, by now you've accused me of trolling twice even though I haven't been close to anything of the sort. I'm starting to suspect I'm the one being trolled since you claim to be here to have a discussion yet every time someone disagrees or points out your mistakes you label it as ill intent. Unfortunately, you're not very good at it, since you haven't been able to agitate me once.
|
Make it a single-target low-energy-cost spell that targets workers.
Each worker that brings back resources, whilst under the effect of the spell, takes damage equals to twice - four times the amount of the harvested resources.
This makes it a bit micro intense for the protoss as he can't simply move in, click once and move out. She/he will have to target multiple workers for the harass to be effective, and preferably keep on harassing over time. It will also make it more micro demanding for the defending player, as he is forced to not only deal with the oracle, he also has to remove workers from the mineral line in accordance to the ones that are affected and then move them back onto gathering resources when the spell wears out. When used against workers mining high yield minerals, it could clear the whole worker-line in just seconds.
This could allow for protoss to control or at least affect the income of the defending player (ie. by targetting gas), but not to the point where it isn't possible to deal with the harass effectively. It just becomes really demanding after a while if the protoss is insistive.
Flavour-text:
Resonance
Weakens the intertial structure of the mineral, giving cause to micro-vibrations within the now highly active resource. Resulting in biologically harmful nuclei resonance.
|
Another version could be a slightly higher cost, that targets single mineral patches / geysers which will damage every worker that harvests from that resource. If a base is fully saturated and the defending player doesn't take notice, he could easily lose two - three workers per affected resource in a short time span.
This could allow the defending player to void the effect if he is really good at micro-managing individual workers as he then can spread the damage and still continue gathering resources. Further potentially increasing the efficiency of any further protoss harasses, as storm or zeal drops.
|
On October 18 2012 12:51 targ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 09:46 SarcasmMonster wrote:So vague. Let's give them suggestions  I propose a Lightning shield (from WC3) + Defensive matrix hybrid spell. A single Zealot infused with Lightning-shield-matrix in the mineral line would be so awesome Promotes small group tactics. 1. We agree with our community that Entomb is not a spectator friendly ability because it's so easy to execute and is targeted at only 1 location (minerals). At least they're catching on. I second the Lightning shield idea, you can also cast it on enemy workers in the mineral line.
Radiate with self invul?
|
Blizzard should hire the most creative posters on this forum, then we wouldn't have these problems, right? 
|
I'd like if they removed the range upgrades for colossus and tempest, and instead gave the oracle an ability that could tremendously increase a units range.
Edit: the sentence above now makes more sense.
|
On October 23 2012 01:22 WaesumNinja wrote:
I'd like if they removed the range upgrades for colossus and tempest, and instead gave the oracle an ability that could tremendously increase a units range.
Edit: the sentence above now makes more sense.
I also thought about a "range" ability in one of the carrier threads.
Give the oracle a "cast flare ability" that will produce a flare which will remain static in a certain area (like the point defense drone) and allow your air units to fire with increased range (+x range when firing into the area that is lit by the "flare").
That way, Protoss air can wreak havoc in a small area (focusing down a base, guarding a ramp, breaking a guarded spot) while remaining in safer distance with the heavy hitters (carriers, tempest).
|
How about an AoE slow? I mean, you could do so much with it. Places a movement speed reduction in a targeted area which slows all units in the area. It can be used to slow worker mining or to slow a region where battle is happening, kind of like the corsair's disruption web except focused on MS and not attack disruption. It can serve the same purpose as entomb in damaging the opponent's economy as well as be useful out in battle. Just think of stimmed bio movement speed and speedling movement speed being decreased. Reliance on sentry FF will be lessened and maybe even used more tactically than just being spammed to lock units in or out. It will allow for both players to focus more on unit control and positioning in the fight than just 1a, macro, cast spells, gg, since movement speed is incredibly important for all units. The aoe range and cast range can be worked out for balance. Blizzard made protoss into a race that controls space to obtain an advantage, so give them a crowd control spell for speed and maybe the oracle will become used in all stages of the game.
|
On October 23 2012 02:54 hurga wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 01:22 WaesumNinja wrote:
I'd like if they removed the range upgrades for colossus and tempest, and instead gave the oracle an ability that could tremendously increase a units range.
Edit: the sentence above now makes more sense. I also thought about a "range" ability in one of the carrier threads. Give the oracle a "cast flare ability" that will produce a flare which will remain static in a certain area (like the point defense drone) and allow your air units to fire with increased range (+x range when firing into the area that is lit by the "flare"). That way, Protoss air can wreak havoc in a small area (focusing down a base, guarding a ramp, breaking a guarded spot) while remaining in safer distance with the heavy hitters (carriers, tempest).
Any oracle ability that buffs a friendly unit is practically doomed to further encourage deathball play, which is probably what noone wants.
The unit needs to be a harasser at first and add little to deathball play, at least that is what they want.
|
On October 23 2012 05:14 Markwerf wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 02:54 hurga wrote:On October 23 2012 01:22 WaesumNinja wrote:
I'd like if they removed the range upgrades for colossus and tempest, and instead gave the oracle an ability that could tremendously increase a units range.
Edit: the sentence above now makes more sense. I also thought about a "range" ability in one of the carrier threads. Give the oracle a "cast flare ability" that will produce a flare which will remain static in a certain area (like the point defense drone) and allow your air units to fire with increased range (+x range when firing into the area that is lit by the "flare"). That way, Protoss air can wreak havoc in a small area (focusing down a base, guarding a ramp, breaking a guarded spot) while remaining in safer distance with the heavy hitters (carriers, tempest). Any oracle ability that buffs a friendly unit is practically doomed to further encourage deathball play, which is probably what noone wants. The unit needs to be a harasser at first and add little to deathball play, at least that is what they want.
But what if the range ability is channeled? Seeing how oracles would be relatively simple to snipe, that would spell doom for a deathball that relies on colossus with long range, but could still have some potential for cute shit.
(I'm talking about an ability that would be single unit target and just add x range to its attacks btw, not that flare thing)
|
I'd love an oracle spell thats aoe and makes the enemies it hits take damage from hallucinated units for some amount of time.
|
On October 23 2012 05:39 See.Blue wrote:
I'd love an oracle spell thats aoe and makes the enemies it hits take damage from hallucinated units for some amount of time.
I like the idea, unfortunately that's way too linear. A spell that only makes units vulnerable to fake units from another spell is not good design, especially when those spells come from two different units.
But you could have a lategame upgrade for the Sentry that would make hallucinations deal some percentage of their normal unit damage. That would give Sentries some late game uses.
|
How about this for an oracle ability.
Graviton plasma scarab.
Targeted like you would target with storm. The oracle releases à slowmoving scarab that attaches itself to the closest friendly or unfriendly unit, dealing damage in an area around the unit and to the unit. The closer to the scarab, the more damage is dealt (so the targeted unit takes maximum damage). The damage comes in 5 waves and is increased by each wave up to something like 45 damage. If the unit that carries the scarab is attacked, the scarab is dropped immediatly but will still do the pulsing damage and try to latch on to the closest unit (Melee distance and its really slow by itself) until it blows itself up the last wave.
Im thinking the scarab should last for perhaps 10 seconds or so. Numbers not really important but more so the idea that you can use it on for example a zealot to do some bombing, trying to time when you should run it in the mineral line for maximum damage output, or perhaps lift up the unit with Phoenix for some air aoe. In the right hands i can imagine it to do some pretty sick stuff.
There is alot of room for creative use, which is important and it doesnt add to the deathball aoe. If someone could post on blizzard forum i would appreciate it. What do you guys think?
|
My suggestion for the Oracle that jumped to my mind last night:
First Ability
Keep the entomb ability, make it single target, indestructable but let workers be able to mine its hitpoints for no income.
Second Ability - Spell Propagation
The oracle has the ability to absorb a single energy based spell in a small area around it and is able cast this spell once for the same energy cost. The oracle becomes unable to move while in absorb-mode. Once cast it is ready to absorb the next spell.
I imagine this to be a great multi-purpose ability for harassment and battle support, it would for example allow high templars to cast one storm on an oracle and let the oracle do the "storm-drop", but only once and basically for two times the energy cost because it wastes energy on the HT and the oracle. But it would also allow to counter EMP and Fungal to a certain extent. For example a second EMP would drain the energy on the oracle but the first could be absorbed, if you're quick you could EMP the ghosts before that however. I think that this ability would allow for great dynamics in caster based battles but is far from being overpowered because of its limitations, i.e.: only once, energy cost etc.
Third Ability - Sight Range Decrease
This ability should have to be researched from the fleet beacon otherwise it would be to powerful in the early/mid-game. This is a battle support and space control spell which allows the oracle to cast it on an area and every enemy unit in the area has then a decreased sight range.
Cast it in front of your army and the enemy would have to close in more on your army to be able to fire if he wants to engage or he has to flank you and circumvent the affected area. It can also be countered by scan, zergs however have no direct counter. I think this ability would help protoss greatly in dealing with zerg deathballs without the need to have a mothership.
If you like these suggestions please feel free to post them on the battle.net forums.
|
One thing I'd really like to see would be a way for Oracles to harass more consistently. On that front, I was thinking, what if Void Siphon didn't harvest minerals, but rather gave Oracle's energy? So you could charge up with very light anti-building harass to unleash the more powerful spell that replaces Entomb more often--clever players could also attack their own buildings to charge up more consistent harass. That way, it really rewards players who stay active with their Oracle rather than simply flying in every so often.
|
On October 22 2012 10:31 Bippzy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 03:59 sona wrote:
Giving oracle an irradiate spell (SV from sc1) would be epic and could give rise to interesting tactics. But call it ionize
1. Use it to harass mineral lines (eraser technique or individual target)
2. Use it with the army to get rid of important targets like HT/Ghost/Infestors
3. Fight units that clump up (Vikings, broodlords, phoenixes)
This will give a reason to build oracles for the WHOLE game. Another spell that could be added is recharge - charge the shields of nearby units or buildings like a sheild battery from sc1. I like this idea in it's entirety.
God damn that sounds sick. It would really synergize well with protoss as they are.
|
So who wants to see a new gateway toss unit that could make playing without century less risky
|
I think that the void siphon animation was kinda cool so if they could use that animation into either a attack or a new ability I found be happy.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
