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On October 18 2012 15:51 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
always disappointed in people saying things like "whoa blizz listens"
this is NOT the first time blizzard has shown they listen! i dont understand, with all these "sc2 dying" threads, with so many ppl saying things like blizzard doesnt listen - they always do, they always have. they might be fucking slow but that's another matter
anyways, it took them a while to say they agree with the uncoolness of entomb and stuff (or is this simply the first "official" statement they've made of it?), but am glad this is finally announced, they need to fix things up ASAP or else people may look at beta now and think hots will be released like that
People are stupid like that.
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I think giving any aoe dmg spell to Oracle is not really a good idea. Protoss has enough AoE dmg. I want to see support spell.
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The Oracle should be able to mine minerals very quickly, like a mule. But, unlike the mule, it gathers only 25% minerals but removes 100% of gathered minerals from the patch. Like, every tick the patch loses 100 minerals and the oracles gets 25. This is to make sure that you want to gather at the opponent's mineral patches and not at your own. Also, there should be a visible counter that shows how many minerals the oracle already got, with a maximum of ~500. This way the harassing players has to decide if he wants to keep gathering even though the enemy army might approach to kill the oracle before it get return the minerals to thee nexus.
A returning oracle with low hp and a lot of minerals can result in a lot of exciting moments.
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On October 18 2012 17:27 Grummler wrote:
The Oracle should be able to mine minerals very quickly, like a mule. But, unlike the mule, it gathers only 25% minerals but removes 100% of gathered minerals from the patch. Like, every tick the patch loses 100 minerals and the oracles gets 25. This is to make sure that you want to gather at the opponent's mineral patches and not at your own. Also, there should be a visible counter that shows how many minerals the oracle already got, with a maximum of ~500. This way the harassing players has to decide if he wants to keep gathering even though the enemy army might approach to kill the oracle before it get return the minerals to thee nexus.
A returning oracle with low hp and a lot of minerals can result in a lot of exciting moments.
One problem... Why wouldn't you just go to an expansion that the enemy hasn't taken yet (but is clearly THEIR expansion) and mine from that? You'd have close to zero risk and you'd get free money and harassment.
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wow very nice to hear entombed is gone. it was so boring and easy to do. void siphon has to go also.
give the oracle their anti-static-defense spell from the alpha back. that in combination with a new harrassment spell opens up a lot of strategies and increases the skill to do it and defend it.
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Maybe with entomb gone, energize could be added back in to MSC? I feel that was a very innovatory spell.
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I think it would be really cool to give the oracle a lockdown type ability that disables a unit from moving, attacking and casting spells, this spell would be channeled by the oracle preventing it from using any other ability or moving away.
This would add a really cool dynamic to a lot of match ups an enemy would have to choose either to try and focus down the oracles in order to free locked down units or wait out the timer and focus on the army.
As units do a lot of damage in starcraft 2 the ability to take important units out of the battle field for a short time would be a useful and essential tool in the protoss arsenal.
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On October 18 2012 18:49 ReMaiN13 wrote:
I think it would be really cool to give the oracle a lockdown type ability that disables a unit from moving, attacking and casting spells, this spell would be channeled by the oracle preventing it from using any other ability or moving away.
This would add a really cool dynamic to a lot of match ups an enemy would have to choose either to try and focus down the oracles in order to free locked down units or wait out the timer and focus on the army.
As units do a lot of damage in starcraft 2 the ability to take important units out of the battle field for a short time would be a useful and essential tool in the protoss arsenal.
And it could be awesome in PvP Collosi wars if it was effective against massive units
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On October 18 2012 18:54 Insoleet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 18:49 ReMaiN13 wrote:
I think it would be really cool to give the oracle a lockdown type ability that disables a unit from moving, attacking and casting spells, this spell would be channeled by the oracle preventing it from using any other ability or moving away.
This would add a really cool dynamic to a lot of match ups an enemy would have to choose either to try and focus down the oracles in order to free locked down units or wait out the timer and focus on the army.
As units do a lot of damage in starcraft 2 the ability to take important units out of the battle field for a short time would be a useful and essential tool in the protoss arsenal.
And it could be awesome in PvP Collosi wars if it was effective against massive units
Yea and not only that but it would allow other styles to be used vs colossi such as zealot archon because with the oracle you could completely shut down the colossi long enough to kill the supporting army making pvp more varied
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An idea on rebalancing the risk/reward, cost/benefit of the entomb spell.
1. Change entomb to affect singular patches, and let workers continue trying to mine from it. Basically it "infects" the patch rather than cover it up.
2. Have the patch damage workers that try to mine from it, while keeping those that doesn't touch it unharmed.
3. Make it a silent effect which won't alert the opponent, like DTs in BW.
Essentially, having a sizable number oracles have a huge potential on decimating mineral lines quickly while being a huge risk since they're pretty useless otherwise. It'll also punish oversaturated bases when workers try "rebalancing" the saturation by turning to the infected patch.
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They are just so slow on the entomb thing.... There are a lot of feedback on the entomb every since it was introduce. It is so boring to watch. Now, 6 patches into beta, they realize the community is right.
Anyway, going to stop bashing them for that. Good thing is they realize now and shows that they are willing to listen.
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Russian Federation1613 Posts
I have an idea for Oracle spell:
Void Blast
It cost 20 mana and can be autocasted (ON/OFF). It deals 80 damage and 20 splash damage (can be different of course). It has the power of reaver and mobility of mutalisk (or reaver in shuttle). What makes it specific it costs mana. So you strategically spend its mana and cant just attack random buildings.
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On October 18 2012 18:54 Insoleet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 18:49 ReMaiN13 wrote:
I think it would be really cool to give the oracle a lockdown type ability that disables a unit from moving, attacking and casting spells, this spell would be channeled by the oracle preventing it from using any other ability or moving away.
This would add a really cool dynamic to a lot of match ups an enemy would have to choose either to try and focus down the oracles in order to free locked down units or wait out the timer and focus on the army.
As units do a lot of damage in starcraft 2 the ability to take important units out of the battle field for a short time would be a useful and essential tool in the protoss arsenal.
And it could be awesome in PvP Collosi wars if it was effective against massive units
Colossi Wars won't exist when people start actively using Tempests for this exact reason. They do 65 damage vs Massive with the Upgrade. Thats the equivalent of an Immortal with +3 plus they fly, have 15 range, and are the same supply as Immortals.
Going Colossi when you know your opponent is would be a horrible option. Instead the Tempest will act as the Viking or Corrupter of PvP but they have the added benefit of being able to attack ground. They will also deal exact damage vs Archons and Carriers so expect them to become fairly common in PvP.
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What about making an upgrade for the Oracle that gives it the ability to drop to the ground (a la vikings) and act sort of like the reaver? Make it slow while on the ground like the reaver, and normal speed in the air. It's sort of like the old days reaver micro, makes the oracle good for midgame harass, and, you know, other stuff. The attack might have to be something besides scarabs due to the improved pathing, but I think it would be an exciting unit.
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I'm so glad that entomb is removed. This spell is utterly boring to use and difficult to find the sweet spot. Not even talking about the skill ceiling of using an oracle to harass, which is none (shiftclicks is all you ever need for this).
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The default would be to base it on the arbiter. Although it is interesting reading through the abilities from bw and warcraft 3.
They could expand on the idea of a phase shift, which could be cast on your own on your opponents units and it means they do not take damage/are not affected by spells and also can not attack/cast spells/mine. It allows unit to escape things like fungal as well as having many other interesting uses. It does the same thing as stasis field except the units can still move but not do anything else.
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I hope the replacement spell of entomb lets the oracle actually kill workers quickly, like a hellion drop, stimmed marine drop, baneling drop etc.
Protoss is lacking a lot in this regard (especially since dts require a lot of tech too and are going to be harder to use due to faster detection) and since the stargate + oracle is a huge investment early on and the oracle can't even help out in fights (unlike medivac drop who can help to fight for instance) it should be able to kill workers quickly. Only by actually killing workers long time damage is guaranteed. Every time you don't have already the right units and right amount in position to defend a drop you need to pull workers for like 30sec already anyways + you have the ability to kill workers and/or tech. Entomb only threatened lost mining time.
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On October 18 2012 13:21 Skyro wrote:
Ok... call me crazy here... but why not make the Oracle... A FLYING REAVER. Ok, don't get your panties in a bunch, here me out. First of all the Reaver was universally loved in SC1, and any type of predecessor, spiritual or otherwise, will be received positively from the community.
But let's examine why the Reaver was so FUN TO WATCH for casuals, as from the post Blizz is clearly paying attention to spectator friendliness:
1) Did BIG TIME damage, which created tension
2) Was flukey, thus created even MORE tension
3) The ability to micro reaver/shuttle was an artform, and thus enjoyable to watch for competitive players as well
Of course the reaver/shuttle dynamic is lost if it is just put onto one unit, and there is also the balance concern with adding a reaver-like attack unit into a protoss deathball. Both these issues can be solved, and the spiritual predecessor of the reaver can remain intact by making it so that the attack is more effective at closer ranges. This can be done in many ways, such as a slow movement rate of the projectile, a failure rate the farther it is launched (e.g. random pathing like the reaver scarabs), etc. so if it is noticed it can be dodged with proper micro which creates this tension. But in a normal battle the oracle could just get instantly sniped since it would have to get too close to the enemy to use the skill.
I think its a great idea to add a flying reaver xD About the concern of the protoss "deathball" the zerg one is stronger and they are getting more unit to complement it so why doesnt protoss get some more units to add in it :D? And give terran a unit to not make them feel left out
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On October 18 2012 15:51 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
always disappointed in people saying things like "whoa blizz listens"
this is NOT the first time blizzard has shown they listen! i dont understand, with all these "sc2 dying" threads, with so many ppl saying things like blizzard doesnt listen - they always do, they always have. they might be fucking slow but that's another matter
anyways, it took them a while to say they agree with the uncoolness of entomb and stuff (or is this simply the first "official" statement they've made of it?), but am glad this is finally announced, they need to fix things up ASAP or else people may look at beta now and think hots will be released like that
What they really mean when they say Blizzard does or doesn't listen is "They do(n't) listen to MEEEEEE!"
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In my opinion it might be cool if they gave the oracle an ability like "consume" from the viper. With the change that you may only consume your opponents units and/or buildings. That way there would be a motivation for the oracle to stay around and harras to gain more energy for casting a second spell rather then flying away right after casting an entombed. Also the "oracles consume" should allow it to kill workers in a reasonable time ( maybe the dps of an un-charged void ray or slightly less)
If energize comes back into hots tho - it should not be able to be casted on the oracle, cause that would obviously destroy that idea.
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EPT
