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So since Gom didn't have a real reason to kick Naniwa out they instead just tell everyone that they "chose" to invite someone else. Koreans always over respond to everything.
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Gom owes Naniwa nothing.
Guess what - if you bite the hand that feeds you, you won't be fucking fed. If Naniwa wants to throw games in the biggest Esports tourney in the world, then he should accept the consequences of that.
There really is nothing to argue here. If you're a shitty employee then you won't be employed.
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Naniwa deserves the Code S Spot.
GOM made a mistake in that situation, because it was an insignificant match, and it was much more funny than any other "4 gate" or trash game...
Naniwa didn't offend or hurt anybody. GOM and other persons have not humor, and don't consider the game for what it is, a funny game, not much more.
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On December 15 2011 04:57 PanN wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:56 ackbar wrote:On December 15 2011 04:53 Tyrant0 wrote:If they tossed an invite to Naniwa at random to promote more foreigners, I'd be okay with it. But Naniwa tore through MLG to get it. I definitely don't approve of GOMTV pulling the rug from beneath any pro gamer they don't deem fit and professional enough when it's entirely within THEIR discretion; Naniwa didn't break any rules. It also feels like it's shitting on the integrity of the MLG/GSL partnership as well. Mr. Chae's definition of a pro gamer is pretty shady, and completely BS. He has an incentive to say they're to generate entertainment which ultimately leads to more viewers/money. I'm not saying he's a mega corporation, and it's entirely reasonable as a business to have financial incentives in mind. Destiny said it best; Would ANYONE play for free, exclusively for the benefit of a league making money off of it. Naniwa didn't fake throwing the game, therefore he's completely dishonorable. There is more I could say but it's extremely controversial. And they aren't even mentioning (based purely on reading this thread) any reassurance that they'll remove inconsequential matches from any and all future formats. Not even because of what happened with Naniwa, or the prospect of players not giving a fuck and throwing it in many less obvious kinds of ways for the fans. But because it doesn't make sense to basically put all your eggs into the player's basket, and hope they play their hardest for the best possible games; when you KNOW you could simply remove the entire possibility out of the equation and make ALL games the highest possible level. On December 15 2011 03:27 Aunvilgod wrote:On December 15 2011 03:13 Jhax[IRE] wrote:
Can't believe more than 1 thread has been made about this whole Naniwa thing. He didn't wanna play the game but he was forced to and as a result he just threw it to get it over with, That's what 99% of human beings do when they are forced to do something they really don't want to do, the bare minimum. In this case you have to face the results. Also, this 99% thing is BS. If I´d believe 99% of the worlds population are arrogant, immature, disrespectful kids I would go kill myself. No it's not. Naniwa worked his ass off practicing for these matches, barely lost, all of them heart breaking and mind numbingly close, and in the end he's told to play Nestea for absolutely no reason; at the very least FAKE he's putting a minimal amount of effort when he's still crushed from being eliminated 30 minutes ago. When the fuck are the other 99% ever put in that situation, and who the fuck of the 99% put a fraction of the dedication Naniwa does into this game. Know who else lost all previous games and had no hope of qualifying, yet showed up to play? Nestea. Ok, so they're different people that have different feelings thus act differently. Whats your point here exactly ackbar?
Nestea, despite not being able to advance, didn't give the middle finger to those that paid to watch the game and to GOM, who paid him for going to the tournament?
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On December 15 2011 04:57 PanN wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:56 ackbar wrote:On December 15 2011 04:53 Tyrant0 wrote:If they tossed an invite to Naniwa at random to promote more foreigners, I'd be okay with it. But Naniwa tore through MLG to get it. I definitely don't approve of GOMTV pulling the rug from beneath any pro gamer they don't deem fit and professional enough when it's entirely within THEIR discretion; Naniwa didn't break any rules. It also feels like it's shitting on the integrity of the MLG/GSL partnership as well. Mr. Chae's definition of a pro gamer is pretty shady, and completely BS. He has an incentive to say they're to generate entertainment which ultimately leads to more viewers/money. I'm not saying he's a mega corporation, and it's entirely reasonable as a business to have financial incentives in mind. Destiny said it best; Would ANYONE play for free, exclusively for the benefit of a league making money off of it. Naniwa didn't fake throwing the game, therefore he's completely dishonorable. There is more I could say but it's extremely controversial. And they aren't even mentioning (based purely on reading this thread) any reassurance that they'll remove inconsequential matches from any and all future formats. Not even because of what happened with Naniwa, or the prospect of players not giving a fuck and throwing it in many less obvious kinds of ways for the fans. But because it doesn't make sense to basically put all your eggs into the player's basket, and hope they play their hardest for the best possible games; when you KNOW you could simply remove the entire possibility out of the equation and make ALL games the highest possible level. On December 15 2011 03:27 Aunvilgod wrote:On December 15 2011 03:13 Jhax[IRE] wrote:
Can't believe more than 1 thread has been made about this whole Naniwa thing. He didn't wanna play the game but he was forced to and as a result he just threw it to get it over with, That's what 99% of human beings do when they are forced to do something they really don't want to do, the bare minimum. In this case you have to face the results. Also, this 99% thing is BS. If I´d believe 99% of the worlds population are arrogant, immature, disrespectful kids I would go kill myself. No it's not. Naniwa worked his ass off practicing for these matches, barely lost, all of them heart breaking and mind numbingly close, and in the end he's told to play Nestea for absolutely no reason; at the very least FAKE he's putting a minimal amount of effort when he's still crushed from being eliminated 30 minutes ago. When the fuck are the other 99% ever put in that situation, and who the fuck of the 99% put a fraction of the dedication Naniwa does into this game. Know who else lost all previous games and had no hope of qualifying, yet showed up to play? Nestea. Ok, so they're different people that have different feelings thus act differently. Whats your point here exactly ackbar?
The point is that Nestea probably works as hard as Naniwa, was also probably crushed by being eliminated, but was professional enough to show up and play. I understand that Naniwa is a passionate gamer who was deeply frustrated, but he could have acted a little more professionally.
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On December 15 2011 04:59 Noktix wrote:
Gom owes Naniwa nothing.
Guess what - if you bite the hand that feeds you, you won't be fucking fed. If Naniwa wants to throw games in the biggest Esports tourney in the world, then he should accept the consequences of that.
There really is nothing to argue here. If you're a shitty employee then you won't be employed.
actually, if you're a shitty employee, you'll be fired, and if you're fired without cause or for spurious cause then you can probably sue for wrongful termination, and either way you can get severance pay, etc.
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On December 15 2011 04:56 ackbar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:53 Tyrant0 wrote:If they tossed an invite to Naniwa at random to promote more foreigners, I'd be okay with it. But Naniwa tore through MLG to get it. I definitely don't approve of GOMTV pulling the rug from beneath any pro gamer they don't deem fit and professional enough when it's entirely within THEIR discretion; Naniwa didn't break any rules. It also feels like it's shitting on the integrity of the MLG/GSL partnership as well. Mr. Chae's definition of a pro gamer is pretty shady, and completely BS. He has an incentive to say they're to generate entertainment which ultimately leads to more viewers/money. I'm not saying he's a mega corporation, and it's entirely reasonable as a business to have financial incentives in mind. Destiny said it best; Would ANYONE play for free, exclusively for the benefit of a league making money off of it. Naniwa didn't fake throwing the game, therefore he's completely dishonorable. There is more I could say but it's extremely controversial. And they aren't even mentioning (based purely on reading this thread) any reassurance that they'll remove inconsequential matches from any and all future formats. Not even because of what happened with Naniwa, or the prospect of players not giving a fuck and throwing it in many less obvious kinds of ways for the fans. But because it doesn't make sense to basically put all your eggs into the player's basket, and hope they play their hardest for the best possible games; when you KNOW you could simply remove the entire possibility out of the equation and make ALL games the highest possible level. On December 15 2011 03:27 Aunvilgod wrote:On December 15 2011 03:13 Jhax[IRE] wrote:
Can't believe more than 1 thread has been made about this whole Naniwa thing. He didn't wanna play the game but he was forced to and as a result he just threw it to get it over with, That's what 99% of human beings do when they are forced to do something they really don't want to do, the bare minimum. In this case you have to face the results. Also, this 99% thing is BS. If I´d believe 99% of the worlds population are arrogant, immature, disrespectful kids I would go kill myself. No it's not. Naniwa worked his ass off practicing for these matches, barely lost, all of them heart breaking and mind numbingly close, and in the end he's told to play Nestea for absolutely no reason; at the very least FAKE he's putting a minimal amount of effort when he's still crushed from being eliminated 30 minutes ago. When the fuck are the other 99% ever put in that situation, and who the fuck of the 99% put a fraction of the dedication Naniwa does into this game. Know who else lost all previous games and had no hope of qualifying, yet showed up to play? Nestea.
Different people are different...
I guess koreans are so scared that theyd rather play pretend then just adcmitting that they dont feel like they can deliver a good game
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On December 15 2011 04:48 Namkung wrote:
저희가 시드를 줬던것은 퀀틱 게이밍의 프로토스 프로게이머 나니와 선수였지 스웨덴에서 게임을 잘하는 청년 요한 루세시는 아니였습니다.
the translation should be as follows for this line :
We gave the seed to the Quantic Gaming's Protoss Player and NOT to the immature Swedish Player Johan Lucchesi who is good at the game.
You completely ignored the word 청년 in your translation which is the most important part in that statement. or what makes it very clear.
From this, Mr.Chae is saying that Naniwa is very immature for what he did. and ultimately the person he gave the Code S seed to was simply a PRO PLAYER FROM QUANTIC GAMING and not the immature person that it turned out to be.
edit : the word 청년 in Korean means a teenager. and in this kind of context, the word can be used to describe the characteristics / attributes associated with a teenager . being immature
I believe you are trying to stretch the context in the negative direction.
You did not include the title 'progamer' in the first part of that sentence. It should be a word-for-word translation that the word 프로게이머 is translated as progamer. You used 'player,' which is sometimes an acceptable substitution for 'progamer,' but in this heated controversy at the moment, little substitutions like that can be subject to endless speculation, so I would be careful there.
More importantly, 청년 -> teenager is just one use. It is also used to address (male) adolescents and young adults.
Commonly, it comes with the implications of youth, but not necessarily immaturity. I quickly looked up some Korean dictionaries online, and majority of them define the word as "youth," with other uses as "young adult in age group 20-30."
A more commonly used word for (young) teenager or child is 소년.
A job of a translator is to translate, not speculate. I hope you don't tarnish it for the rest of us.
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On December 15 2011 05:00 -y0shi- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:56 ackbar wrote:On December 15 2011 04:53 Tyrant0 wrote:If they tossed an invite to Naniwa at random to promote more foreigners, I'd be okay with it. But Naniwa tore through MLG to get it. I definitely don't approve of GOMTV pulling the rug from beneath any pro gamer they don't deem fit and professional enough when it's entirely within THEIR discretion; Naniwa didn't break any rules. It also feels like it's shitting on the integrity of the MLG/GSL partnership as well. Mr. Chae's definition of a pro gamer is pretty shady, and completely BS. He has an incentive to say they're to generate entertainment which ultimately leads to more viewers/money. I'm not saying he's a mega corporation, and it's entirely reasonable as a business to have financial incentives in mind. Destiny said it best; Would ANYONE play for free, exclusively for the benefit of a league making money off of it. Naniwa didn't fake throwing the game, therefore he's completely dishonorable. There is more I could say but it's extremely controversial. And they aren't even mentioning (based purely on reading this thread) any reassurance that they'll remove inconsequential matches from any and all future formats. Not even because of what happened with Naniwa, or the prospect of players not giving a fuck and throwing it in many less obvious kinds of ways for the fans. But because it doesn't make sense to basically put all your eggs into the player's basket, and hope they play their hardest for the best possible games; when you KNOW you could simply remove the entire possibility out of the equation and make ALL games the highest possible level. On December 15 2011 03:27 Aunvilgod wrote:On December 15 2011 03:13 Jhax[IRE] wrote:
Can't believe more than 1 thread has been made about this whole Naniwa thing. He didn't wanna play the game but he was forced to and as a result he just threw it to get it over with, That's what 99% of human beings do when they are forced to do something they really don't want to do, the bare minimum. In this case you have to face the results. Also, this 99% thing is BS. If I´d believe 99% of the worlds population are arrogant, immature, disrespectful kids I would go kill myself. No it's not. Naniwa worked his ass off practicing for these matches, barely lost, all of them heart breaking and mind numbingly close, and in the end he's told to play Nestea for absolutely no reason; at the very least FAKE he's putting a minimal amount of effort when he's still crushed from being eliminated 30 minutes ago. When the fuck are the other 99% ever put in that situation, and who the fuck of the 99% put a fraction of the dedication Naniwa does into this game. Know who else lost all previous games and had no hope of qualifying, yet showed up to play? Nestea. Different people are different... I guess koreans are so scared that theyd rather play pretend then just adcmitting that they dont feel like they can deliver a good game
I guess you have some insider knowledge that says that Koreans are "so scared" and just pretend to try, instead of perhaps trying even if they can't advance in a tournament?
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On December 15 2011 04:48 Namkung wrote:
저희가 시드를 줬던것은 퀀틱 게이밍의 프로토스 프로게이머 나니와 선수였지 스웨덴에서 게임을 잘하는 청년 요한 루세시는 아니였습니다.
the translation should be as follows for this line :
We gave the seed to the Quantic Gaming's Protoss Player and NOT to the immature Swedish Player Johan Lucchesi who is good at the game.
You completely ignored the word 청년 in your translation which is the most important part in that statement. or what makes it very clear.
From this, Mr.Chae is saying that Naniwa is very immature for what he did. and ultimately the person he gave the Code S seed to was simply a PRO PLAYER FROM QUANTIC GAMING and not the immature person that it turned out to be.
edit : the word 청년 in Korean means a teenager. and in this kind of context, the word can be used to describe the characteristics / attributes associated with a teenager . being immature
thanks namkung.
quoted for visibility, plz OP, update.
If you agree on the translation of course...
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What did Naniwa do? I've been busy with exams, haven't been following the GSL lately.
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Remember that even in the NBA, David Stern had the power to stop NBA players from wearing baggy clothing or hats sideways even if that was "their personality". It's a price you pay to play in the organization.
"Being yourself" is something they teach you in gradeschool. In the professional world, you have to make some changes to yourself for the good of the organization you are working for / represent.
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Switzerland2892 Posts
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Vatican City State582 Posts
Oh btw, to the guy who spread misinformation about the whole incident, please refrain from posting in the forums. My alien friend tells me a lot of things, but I don't just post it everywhere claiming whatever he says is true.
Sick of this friend of my friend said this; therefore, i have a credible source to start topics with..
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On December 15 2011 05:00 -y0shi- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:56 ackbar wrote:On December 15 2011 04:53 Tyrant0 wrote:If they tossed an invite to Naniwa at random to promote more foreigners, I'd be okay with it. But Naniwa tore through MLG to get it. I definitely don't approve of GOMTV pulling the rug from beneath any pro gamer they don't deem fit and professional enough when it's entirely within THEIR discretion; Naniwa didn't break any rules. It also feels like it's shitting on the integrity of the MLG/GSL partnership as well. Mr. Chae's definition of a pro gamer is pretty shady, and completely BS. He has an incentive to say they're to generate entertainment which ultimately leads to more viewers/money. I'm not saying he's a mega corporation, and it's entirely reasonable as a business to have financial incentives in mind. Destiny said it best; Would ANYONE play for free, exclusively for the benefit of a league making money off of it. Naniwa didn't fake throwing the game, therefore he's completely dishonorable. There is more I could say but it's extremely controversial. And they aren't even mentioning (based purely on reading this thread) any reassurance that they'll remove inconsequential matches from any and all future formats. Not even because of what happened with Naniwa, or the prospect of players not giving a fuck and throwing it in many less obvious kinds of ways for the fans. But because it doesn't make sense to basically put all your eggs into the player's basket, and hope they play their hardest for the best possible games; when you KNOW you could simply remove the entire possibility out of the equation and make ALL games the highest possible level. On December 15 2011 03:27 Aunvilgod wrote:On December 15 2011 03:13 Jhax[IRE] wrote:
Can't believe more than 1 thread has been made about this whole Naniwa thing. He didn't wanna play the game but he was forced to and as a result he just threw it to get it over with, That's what 99% of human beings do when they are forced to do something they really don't want to do, the bare minimum. In this case you have to face the results. Also, this 99% thing is BS. If I´d believe 99% of the worlds population are arrogant, immature, disrespectful kids I would go kill myself. No it's not. Naniwa worked his ass off practicing for these matches, barely lost, all of them heart breaking and mind numbingly close, and in the end he's told to play Nestea for absolutely no reason; at the very least FAKE he's putting a minimal amount of effort when he's still crushed from being eliminated 30 minutes ago. When the fuck are the other 99% ever put in that situation, and who the fuck of the 99% put a fraction of the dedication Naniwa does into this game. Know who else lost all previous games and had no hope of qualifying, yet showed up to play? Nestea. Different people are different...
Indeed. The difference between Nestea and Nani is night and day.
I guess koreans are so scared that theyd rather play pretend then just adcmitting that they dont feel like they can deliver a good game
Sometimes being a professional involves doing things you don't particularly want to do.
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On December 15 2011 04:59 diophan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:57 PanN wrote:On December 15 2011 04:56 ackbar wrote:On December 15 2011 04:53 Tyrant0 wrote:If they tossed an invite to Naniwa at random to promote more foreigners, I'd be okay with it. But Naniwa tore through MLG to get it. I definitely don't approve of GOMTV pulling the rug from beneath any pro gamer they don't deem fit and professional enough when it's entirely within THEIR discretion; Naniwa didn't break any rules. It also feels like it's shitting on the integrity of the MLG/GSL partnership as well. Mr. Chae's definition of a pro gamer is pretty shady, and completely BS. He has an incentive to say they're to generate entertainment which ultimately leads to more viewers/money. I'm not saying he's a mega corporation, and it's entirely reasonable as a business to have financial incentives in mind. Destiny said it best; Would ANYONE play for free, exclusively for the benefit of a league making money off of it. Naniwa didn't fake throwing the game, therefore he's completely dishonorable. There is more I could say but it's extremely controversial. And they aren't even mentioning (based purely on reading this thread) any reassurance that they'll remove inconsequential matches from any and all future formats. Not even because of what happened with Naniwa, or the prospect of players not giving a fuck and throwing it in many less obvious kinds of ways for the fans. But because it doesn't make sense to basically put all your eggs into the player's basket, and hope they play their hardest for the best possible games; when you KNOW you could simply remove the entire possibility out of the equation and make ALL games the highest possible level. On December 15 2011 03:27 Aunvilgod wrote:On December 15 2011 03:13 Jhax[IRE] wrote:
Can't believe more than 1 thread has been made about this whole Naniwa thing. He didn't wanna play the game but he was forced to and as a result he just threw it to get it over with, That's what 99% of human beings do when they are forced to do something they really don't want to do, the bare minimum. In this case you have to face the results. Also, this 99% thing is BS. If I´d believe 99% of the worlds population are arrogant, immature, disrespectful kids I would go kill myself. No it's not. Naniwa worked his ass off practicing for these matches, barely lost, all of them heart breaking and mind numbingly close, and in the end he's told to play Nestea for absolutely no reason; at the very least FAKE he's putting a minimal amount of effort when he's still crushed from being eliminated 30 minutes ago. When the fuck are the other 99% ever put in that situation, and who the fuck of the 99% put a fraction of the dedication Naniwa does into this game. Know who else lost all previous games and had no hope of qualifying, yet showed up to play? Nestea. Ok, so they're different people that have different feelings thus act differently. Whats your point here exactly ackbar? Nestea, despite not being able to advance, didn't give the middle finger to those that paid to watch the game and to GOM, who paid him for going to the tournament?
And you think these viewers wouldve been satisfied with a shitty 4 gate? In a situation where both players are not motivated or "in it" anymore there is nothing that can be done about it, there is no way they can force this game to be exiting. I closed the stream after nani lost his 3rd game because I didnt feel like watching him pretending to give a shit and I expected gom to be reasonable enough to just cancel the last game
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I dont understand. so he isnt banned from code s?
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On December 15 2011 04:42 m0ck wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:35 Teriyaki-Boy wrote:
I don't understand why, people are defending him for acting in such a way and trying to justified the game mean nothing....The game does mean something to the viewers and the fans of Naniwa and Nestea. People need to understand this is a business of entertainment and GOM wanna put out great content for their viewers and E-Sport to grow. I have to agree with the punishment, only caring for your own personal feeling and disregard your jobs is truly unprofessional.
To some viewers. To others, such as myself, it's a meaningless game, a consequence of a bad tournament format, that is being played out as show for the sake of the show. You're asking the players to fake it. That is almost impossible, as can be seen in how Hero didn't play to win in his match against DRG on monday, and almost always results in lackluster games, if not in trouble as we've seen here. It means you have to set a rather arbitrary rule for how much of an effort you're supposed to make. I wan't to see meaningful competition, matches that matter, not something akin to a wrestling match.
They are asking him to be little more professional and try to act like do care about the Fans and the viewers...yeah the tournament was meaningful to Naniwa until he got 0-3 and then decide to throw away the game in the most obvious way..Its like saying fuck your viewers, fuck your tournament. To act on one own feelings and not caring about other in a business environment is unacceptable and i stand by Gom for the Punishment.
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Man so much confusion about this whole topic.
Glad to hear Mr. Chae didn't really say the thing that was quoted earlier, always respected the man, but earlier today i wasn't so sure....
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Coming from a Asian background; If someone walked around my house with their shoes on I would have kicked that person out of my house too...
Overall in my opinion he was being disrespectful. Punishment is harsh, but it was necessary.
Still welcome in my house next time, next time just has to take the shoes off.
EDIT: then again... should have informed him to take of the shoes in the first place... confused now :/
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EPT
