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Correct Mr. Chae Statement - Page 22

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EZSkull
Profile Joined March 2011
United States230 Posts
December 14 2011 20:04 GMT
#421
On December 15 2011 05:04 Roxy wrote:
I dont understand. so he isnt banned from code s?


He wasn't banned, he wasn't given an invite to next Code S, which instead went to IdrA and Sen.
“I can discredit the K-1 with two syllables. Bob Sapp.” - Sonnen(R)
ES.Genie
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany1370 Posts
December 14 2011 20:04 GMT
#422
In this case you have to face the results.

Also, this 99% thing is BS. If I´d believe 99% of the worlds population are arrogant, immature, disrespectful kids I would go kill myself.

Yeah sure, you would totaly spend 100% of your remaining powers in a game that doesnt even matter and that you actually dont want to play, while already being exhausted and depressed. Please stop lying.
No Mvp, no care. ~ the King will be back | Shawn Ray, Kevin Levrone, Phil Heath |
msl
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany477 Posts
December 14 2011 20:04 GMT
#423
On December 15 2011 04:55 Jono7272 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 04:53 msl wrote:
On December 15 2011 04:51 Jono7272 wrote:
Nicely said Mr. Chae. Definitely agree that's how a pro gamer should act.

But going from that to denying him the Code S spot is quite harsh. Then again, what other option was there, a fine was not an option seeing as Naniwa didn't break any rules.


So if you don't break a a rule, you can't be issued a small punishment, but a harsh one is OK? I do not follow that logic.

His Code S spot was never guaranteed, it was an invite seed. For his attitude they changed their mind about inviting him, that's all.

What should be the punishment? As obviously GOM feel he acted immaturely and unprofessional. A fine is not really an option for this kind of misconduct.


People keep saying the spot wasn't garunteed, yet if you asked anybody if Naniwar was going to play in Caode S 48 hours ago, everybody woukd have said "Yes" and not "I GOM feels like it". He either had a Code S spot ot the fans were actually misled in that regard.

What should be the punishment? None, as no rule was broken. A warning might be issued that this type of behaviour is not deemed acceptable by GOM and will be punished in the future.

Then rules should be made for the future which clearly state what is and is not acceptable and what consequences there can be for breaking said rule.
Support TONY best TONY
Moa
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States790 Posts
December 14 2011 20:05 GMT
#424
On December 15 2011 04:59 GodZo wrote:
Naniwa deserves the Code S Spot.

GOM made a mistake in that situation, because it was an insignificant match, and it was much more funny than any other "4 gate" or trash game...

Naniwa didn't offend or hurt anybody. GOM and other persons have not humor, and don't consider the game for what it is, a funny game, not much more.


He actually offended a lot of people. Have you seen what the Koreans are saying about this.
^O^
pPingu
Profile Joined September 2011
Switzerland2892 Posts
December 14 2011 20:06 GMT
#425
On December 15 2011 05:04 Roxy wrote:
I dont understand. so he isnt banned from code s?


He was gonna be in code s (because of mlg or an invitation, it's obscure) but because of his game against nestea they decided to give it to sen.

Apparently if nani wants to play gsl january he will have to qualify for code a.
HandleTaken
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden81 Posts
December 14 2011 20:06 GMT
#426
On December 15 2011 04:07 Ysellian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 04:02 HandleTaken wrote:
I must admit my initial reaction upon hearing about this was: - Sigh, what did Naniwa do this time?

But after reading what actually transpired I think GOM overreacted.

Compare this to the Champions League soccer group game between Dinamo Zagreb vs Lyon. Zagreb had nothing to play for but Lyon did. Lyon won 7 - 1 and advanced from the group. Did Zagreb get thrown out of next CL-season? No, even though that match actually mattered.

I certainly won't subscribe to GSL after something like this happens.


Disciplinary actions regarding Dinamo Zagreb are still ongoing. The first probe for corruption was thrown off, but if Uefa let this pass than the champions league can say goodbye to it's integrity and you know it.


I'm sure Zagreb will get fined and that's exactly what should have happened to Naniwa. Make him pay back his Blizzard cup prize money in a fine (since GOM thinks Naniwa has shown unsportsmanlike behavior). Throwing Naniwa out of next GSL-season is just overdoing it.
Hohto
Profile Joined September 2011
Finland18 Posts
December 14 2011 20:06 GMT
#427
Tournament organizers make a mistake and players suffer. Alltho i think naniwa didint handle that situation properly this kind of punishment is way to harsh.
It's nice to be important but more important to be nice
Noktix
Profile Joined May 2011
United States492 Posts
December 14 2011 20:07 GMT
#428
On December 15 2011 04:59 o[twist] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 04:59 Noktix wrote:
Gom owes Naniwa nothing.

Guess what - if you bite the hand that feeds you, you won't be fucking fed. If Naniwa wants to throw games in the biggest Esports tourney in the world, then he should accept the consequences of that.

There really is nothing to argue here. If you're a shitty employee then you won't be employed.


actually, if you're a shitty employee, you'll be fired, and if you're fired without cause or for spurious cause then you can probably sue for wrongful termination, and either way you can get severance pay, etc.


First off all, this is Korea, not the US.

Second of all, fired without cause? Hundreds of thousands saw Naniwa throw a game intentionally. Whether you agree with it or not, it breaks one of Gom's rules.

People need to understand that the Code S invite is a privilege, not a right.
PHILtheTANK
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1834 Posts
December 14 2011 20:07 GMT
#429
On December 15 2011 04:59 Noktix wrote:
Gom owes Naniwa nothing.

Guess what - if you bite the hand that feeds you, you won't be fucking fed. If Naniwa wants to throw games in the biggest Esports tourney in the world, then he should accept the consequences of that.

There really is nothing to argue here. If you're a shitty employee then you won't be employed.


You are wrong... Gom owes a lot of people something here.

Gom owes Naniwa treatment deserving of a programer. Had any other tournament(imagine NASL) forced a progamer who had just poured his heart and soul into 3 heartwrenching losses, to play a meaningless game on stage, they would have gotten so much shit the tables would be completely turned on this discussion.

Gom owes the viewers, you know those of us who pay fucking 200 dollars a year to watch and support their tournament, meaningful games instead of putting THAT up on stage.

Gom owes MLG an adherence to their fucking contract and to not de-legitamize their entire tournament with this crap. When a korean player takes the GUARANTEED SEED from MLG its a GUARANTEED SEED. When Naniwa wins the GUARANTEED SEED from MLG, and then does something stupid(even when GOM is as much to blame) its no longer a GUARANTEED SEED and is now a conditional invite.
Jieun <3
Fjodorov
Profile Joined December 2011
5007 Posts
December 14 2011 20:07 GMT
#430
On December 15 2011 03:56 Fandango wrote:
I really dislike that they're co-opting 'progamer' to mean the thing which helps the business side of things out (i.e. appeasing the fans and acting in a pre-approved manner), over meaning players who play the game at its highest competitive level, for the competition itself, using prize money to support that dedication. It's irritating because it can easily turn into a slippery slope where we end up with the kind of stilted interviews and lack of personality of BW events for fear of upsetting the infrastructure that supports them. The globalisation of starcraft has been fantastic for distributing the power of the tournament organisers to control things for ulterior motives that benefit them over the players, but the GSL having the best players means it has the most leverage to do things that satisfy their agenda, whether it's good for the players or not.

The weird way people put korean culture on a pedastal is really depressing too, where they think because it's korean they have a right to do things that negatively impact the scene as a whole. In general this whole thing has been one of the most depressing series of events to read on TL and honestly makes me more apathetic about people in general than ever. The amount of bizarre justifications ranging from conservative talking points that make no sense, to pro korean xenophobia, to 'for the greater esports good', to basing arguments off extrapolated opinions with little basis in fact. There's barely been 1 in 10 posts that hasn't included something that isn't a horrible abortion of logic and language.


I agree with every single word. We need to let go of the notion that the korean way is the ultimate way
-y0shi-
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany994 Posts
December 14 2011 20:08 GMT
#431
On December 15 2011 05:04 Teriyaki-Boy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 04:42 m0ck wrote:
On December 15 2011 04:35 Teriyaki-Boy wrote:
I don't understand why, people are defending him for acting in such a way and trying to justified the game mean nothing....The game does mean something to the viewers and the fans of Naniwa and Nestea. People need to understand this is a business of entertainment and GOM wanna put out great content for their viewers and E-Sport to grow. I have to agree with the punishment, only caring for your own personal feeling and disregard your jobs is truly unprofessional.

To some viewers. To others, such as myself, it's a meaningless game, a consequence of a bad tournament format, that is being played out as show for the sake of the show. You're asking the players to fake it. That is almost impossible, as can be seen in how Hero didn't play to win in his match against DRG on monday, and almost always results in lackluster games, if not in trouble as we've seen here. It means you have to set a rather arbitrary rule for how much of an effort you're supposed to make. I wan't to see meaningful competition, matches that matter, not something akin to a wrestling match.

.Its like saying fuck your viewers, fuck your tournament. To act on one own feelings and not caring about other in a business environment is unacceptable and i stand by Gom for the Punishment.


This is what I just dont understand... YOu know what I consider "fuck you" to the viewers? Forcing a half assed game between two guys who arent focused down the vciewers throat just because you need to satisfy some artifical hype..

Nani simply felt like he coudlt deliver and didnt try to pretend because he didnt want to waste anyones time.
ackbar
Profile Joined March 2011
United States94 Posts
December 14 2011 20:08 GMT
#432
On December 15 2011 05:05 Moa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 04:59 GodZo wrote:
Naniwa deserves the Code S Spot.

GOM made a mistake in that situation, because it was an insignificant match, and it was much more funny than any other "4 gate" or trash game...

Naniwa didn't offend or hurt anybody. GOM and other persons have not humor, and don't consider the game for what it is, a funny game, not much more.


He actually offended a lot of people. Have you seen what the Koreans are saying about this.


Agreed. Koreans have very different cultural norms and values. Not necessarily better or worse - just different. From a western perspective, this was bm and probably not a wise move, but ultimately forgivable. To them, this was a slap in the face.
nam nam
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden4672 Posts
December 14 2011 20:08 GMT
#433
On December 15 2011 05:04 Roxy wrote:
I dont understand. so he isnt banned from code s?

He's not getting a Code S seed. How you choose to see that is up to you.
dacimvrl
Profile Joined December 2011
Vatican City State582 Posts
December 14 2011 20:08 GMT
#434
On December 15 2011 05:04 Roxy wrote:
I dont understand. so he isnt banned from code s?


reading is fundamental my friend

like it has been mentioned millions of times, his invitation to Code S January was voided, but he could still try and qualify for subsequent GSL tournaments.
TeeTS
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany2762 Posts
December 14 2011 20:08 GMT
#435
On December 15 2011 04:48 o[twist] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 04:46 Hubris wrote:
I've yet to hear a clear and coherent argument stating why Gom is wrong removing a player that disrespected them from their tourny. I think some here need to tone down the fanboy rage/national pride and just accept that he broke cultural norms for a serious sport and got reprimanded for it. It's really that simple. If he's code S worthy he'll do well in up/downs and it wont matter anyway.


name another sport where you can be thrown out for "breaking cultural norms" with no specific rule


In every Sport's buisness you get punished for unsporting behavior. I think the major point is:
This is not a formal punishment for Naniwa which had to be covered by rules.

In fact: Naniwa just simply showed with his actions, that he doesn't have the attitude and shares the values, that they expect from a pro gamer. So they decided to give their seed to another one.
Since there is no official participation list for GSL January, I don't expect, that a formal invitation exists at this point in time. So since you don't qualify on the official way (Code A Qualifier -> Code A -> Code S), I think GOM should be able to decide on their own, who they want to invite. And seriously Naniwa gave them several reasons, that he might not be the player, they are looking for.
hypercube
Profile Joined April 2010
Hungary2735 Posts
December 14 2011 20:08 GMT
#436
On December 15 2011 05:04 -DMducky wrote:
Coming from a Asian background; If someone walked around my house with their shoes on I would have kicked that person out of my house too...

Overall in my opinion he was being disrespectful. Punishment is harsh, but it was necessary.

Still welcome in my house next time, just has to take the shoes off.


Really? Why not just ask to take their shoes off? If you invited me to a party I'd be worried I might be kicked out for whatever. Unless you'd have a really amazing party I might just pass just to be on the safe side.
"Sending people in rockets to other planets is a waste of money better spent on sending rockets into people on this planet."
rd
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States2586 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 20:11:46
December 14 2011 20:09 GMT
#437
On December 15 2011 05:04 Teriyaki-Boy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 04:42 m0ck wrote:
On December 15 2011 04:35 Teriyaki-Boy wrote:
I don't understand why, people are defending him for acting in such a way and trying to justified the game mean nothing....The game does mean something to the viewers and the fans of Naniwa and Nestea. People need to understand this is a business of entertainment and GOM wanna put out great content for their viewers and E-Sport to grow. I have to agree with the punishment, only caring for your own personal feeling and disregard your jobs is truly unprofessional.

To some viewers. To others, such as myself, it's a meaningless game, a consequence of a bad tournament format, that is being played out as show for the sake of the show. You're asking the players to fake it. That is almost impossible, as can be seen in how Hero didn't play to win in his match against DRG on monday, and almost always results in lackluster games, if not in trouble as we've seen here. It means you have to set a rather arbitrary rule for how much of an effort you're supposed to make. I wan't to see meaningful competition, matches that matter, not something akin to a wrestling match.


They are asking him to be little more professional and try to act like do care about the Fans and the viewers...yeah the tournament was meaningful to Naniwa until he got 0-3 and then decide to throw away the game in the most obvious way..Its like saying fuck your viewers, fuck your tournament. To act on one own feelings and not caring about other in a business environment is unacceptable and i stand by Gom for the Punishment.


Everyone shits all over Naniwa and GOM is expected to take 0 responsibility over a shitty format that was half the problem in the first place. Enraged FANS should be angry GOM facilitates a format that ends up in fake matches that are UNENJOYABLE to watch. By siding with GOM you're basically agreeing that shitty 4 gates/6 gates are fun to watch and GOM should provoke more with even MORE inconsequential matches.

On December 15 2011 05:04 -DMducky wrote:
Coming from a Asian background; If someone walked around my house with their shoes on I would have kicked that person out of my house too...

Overall in my opinion he was being disrespectful. Punishment is harsh, but it was necessary.

Still welcome in my house next time, just has to take the shoes off.


Hi welcome to my house. I realize you've been shot several times, come sit do- My god. MY GOD. THOSE ARE SHOES. LEAVE MY HOUSE. IMMEDIATELY. *BEATS WITH A BASEBALL BAT* DON'T EVER COME BACK AGAIN.
jyisvip
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada209 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 20:12:29
December 14 2011 20:09 GMT
#438
On December 15 2011 05:01 Cascade wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 04:48 Namkung wrote:
저희가 시드를 줬던것은 퀀틱 게이밍의 프로토스 프로게이머 나니와 선수였지 스웨덴에서 게임을 잘하는 청년 요한 루세시는 아니였습니다.

the translation should be as follows for this line :
We gave the seed to the Quantic Gaming's Protoss Player and NOT to the immature Swedish Player Johan Lucchesi who is good at the game.

You completely ignored the word 청년 in your translation which is the most important part in that statement. or what makes it very clear.
From this, Mr.Chae is saying that Naniwa is very immature for what he did. and ultimately the person he gave the Code S seed to was simply a PRO PLAYER FROM QUANTIC GAMING and not the immature person that it turned out to be.

edit : the word 청년 in Korean means a teenager. and in this kind of context, the word can be used to describe the characteristics / attributes associated with a teenager . being immature


thanks namkung.
quoted for visibility, plz OP, update.
If you agree on the translation of course...


That is pretty much stretching what that word means. 청년 means young man and nothing more. I believe that word was just used to make a coherent sentence and nothing more.
diophan
Profile Joined September 2011
United States1018 Posts
December 14 2011 20:09 GMT
#439
On December 15 2011 05:08 -y0shi- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 05:04 Teriyaki-Boy wrote:
On December 15 2011 04:42 m0ck wrote:
On December 15 2011 04:35 Teriyaki-Boy wrote:
I don't understand why, people are defending him for acting in such a way and trying to justified the game mean nothing....The game does mean something to the viewers and the fans of Naniwa and Nestea. People need to understand this is a business of entertainment and GOM wanna put out great content for their viewers and E-Sport to grow. I have to agree with the punishment, only caring for your own personal feeling and disregard your jobs is truly unprofessional.

To some viewers. To others, such as myself, it's a meaningless game, a consequence of a bad tournament format, that is being played out as show for the sake of the show. You're asking the players to fake it. That is almost impossible, as can be seen in how Hero didn't play to win in his match against DRG on monday, and almost always results in lackluster games, if not in trouble as we've seen here. It means you have to set a rather arbitrary rule for how much of an effort you're supposed to make. I wan't to see meaningful competition, matches that matter, not something akin to a wrestling match.

.Its like saying fuck your viewers, fuck your tournament. To act on one own feelings and not caring about other in a business environment is unacceptable and i stand by Gom for the Punishment.


This is what I just dont understand... YOu know what I consider "fuck you" to the viewers? Forcing a half assed game between two guys who arent focused down the vciewers throat just because you need to satisfy some artifical hype..

Nani simply felt like he coudlt deliver and didnt try to pretend because he didnt want to waste anyones time.


The tournament was round robin, presumably to let the viewers see all these awesome players play each other.

What is GOM supposed to do, "sorry viewers who paid $10 to see a tournament that's less than a week long, Nani doesn't feel like playing anymore"?
pPingu
Profile Joined September 2011
Switzerland2892 Posts
December 14 2011 20:10 GMT
#440
On December 15 2011 05:07 Noktix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 04:59 o[twist] wrote:
On December 15 2011 04:59 Noktix wrote:
Gom owes Naniwa nothing.

Guess what - if you bite the hand that feeds you, you won't be fucking fed. If Naniwa wants to throw games in the biggest Esports tourney in the world, then he should accept the consequences of that.

There really is nothing to argue here. If you're a shitty employee then you won't be employed.


actually, if you're a shitty employee, you'll be fired, and if you're fired without cause or for spurious cause then you can probably sue for wrongful termination, and either way you can get severance pay, etc.


First off all, this is Korea, not the US.

Second of all, fired without cause? Hundreds of thousands saw Naniwa throw a game intentionally. Whether you agree with it or not, it breaks one of Gom's rules.

People need to understand that the Code S invite is a privilege, not a right.


Tell me which rule, nobody is sure about it
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