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On August 05 2013 06:49 shmget wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2013 06:30 AgentW wrote:
Well, let's take a look see, shall we?
NASL is located in... America! Blizzard is located in... America! All of Blizzard and NASL's production equipment is in... America! Plane tickets and moving lots of important equipment isn't free, hence WCS likely will never be played anywhere but California.
and last season it was hosted in... New York, which last I checked is not in California. and NASL has no problem organizing finales in Canada: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=239623http://www.gamespot.com/news/nasl-finals-hitting-toronto-july-14-15-6373644Show nested quote +
viOLet should have played in WCS Korea when he had a chance after Season 1 considering the information we have now (and the information he clearly had then).
I have no idea what 'information' Violet had back then... but as visa goes... you don;t know until you apply and are denied... and they do not have to give you a 'reason'. beside that does not change that eh would still not be able to get a visa to get the the season Finale or the global finale. In general it would be best to host these even in country that are more welcoming of foreigners. Show nested quote +
Also, there's no matter of "should" be barred from competing. The US government has the final say in the matter, it's their decision who to let into the country.
Well, some in this thread argue that Blizzard should have prevented him from entering the tournament altogether.
California's where everything's going to be at from now on, considering NASL and Blizzard are both located in SoCal. MLG is located in NY, hence the Season 1 finals were there. What I said is absolutely correct.
viOLet knew his visa had been denied at least once. Instead of playing in WCS KR, he decided to re-up with WCS AM. It's not that the US isn't welcoming to foreigners, it's that viOLet violated the terms of his visa. If you don't understand this, I suggest re-reading the entire thread.
Blizzard should prevent him from entering the tournament if it's known that he's never going to be able to make a LAN. It's just silly to have someone continuously make Ro16's and then forfeit because he can't show up to the offline event (which was known to be the case beforehand), for whatever reason.
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For me the bigger issue is:
why did Violet decided to play in the AM region instead of EU or KR if he knew he's going to have visa issues. He came for an extended period of time and it's not a secret that he's going to have huge issues getting into the United States.
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On August 05 2013 02:04 zaxx wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2013 01:56 sitromit wrote:On August 05 2013 01:20 zaxx wrote:On August 04 2013 23:44 tree.hugger wrote:
This should surprise nobody. Last time the US let viOlet in, he abused his visa and overstayed. He broke the law. That's their perspective and it happens to be correct. I know online we're all one big happy family, but countries take this stuff seriously. viOlet and his management really screwed up. Honestly, viOlet should probably try to switch regions, because it's going to continue to be hard/impossible for him to get into the US for years. Your information is just plain wrong. viOlet NEVER broke any US laws during any of his stays in the United States. "Their" perspective is that even though he did not break the law, and he was well within the technical rights to stay when and as long as he did, it was still suspicious that he stayed for the lengths of times he did. The US has the right to deny anyone at their own discretion, regardless of whether a law was actually broken or not. "Right to deny anyone service" applies to them as well as US businesses. To say viOlet broke the law without any actual facts is purely speculative and damages more than it helps. Sometimes it is better to not say anything at all. No, he overstayed. I remember thinking when he was living here, "How is he staying here so long on what's probably a visa-waiver that he used to get in?". I thought he might have signed up for an educational program and changed his status, but he hadn't. His rights were to stay in the US for 3 months. He stayed far longer than that. When you overstay your status, it becomes extremely difficult to get back in the country once you leave, which is what happened to him. What first hand knowledge or facts of the situation do you know? He stayed on an ESTA waiver, which allows you to stay for 3 months at a time (you are correct there). However, the time resets when you leave the country for a certain amount of time. If you do your homework, you will realize that he always had a foreign (European or otherwise) event that reset the waiver to 90 days. Going to those events for that 5-7 days allowed him to come back to the USA and stay for a brand new 90 days before resetting the waiver again. In accordance to the laws and permissions granted to the ESTA, he was within his rights to stay the lengths of time he did.
You are allowed 90 days once you enter, but if you leave before those 90 days are up you're not supposed to come back again until the 90 days is up. Also there is a maximum of 180 days in a year you can stay, and I'm pretty sure violet exceeded that with his multiple trips. You could also argue that he wasn't supposed to use the waiver program since he was 'working' in the country during his time here, but that's a grey-ish area.
To be fair CSN share a lot of the blame here since they should have known this would happen and not let him violate his visa status and jeopardize the possibility of him coming to the US again.
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Again? Why is he still allowed to play in WCS AM?
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On August 05 2013 07:33 Serek wrote:
Again? Why is he still allowed to play in WCS AM?
Takes a spot away from a North American player and now can't even play.. fuckin awesome.
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On August 05 2013 05:10 NKexquisite wrote:
Hmm, will this discourage players from playing in regions that they aren't native to for WCS?
<sarcasm>
Yes Sure... only 'native american' should be allowed to play in WCS America...
</sarcasm>
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On August 05 2013 06:06 havok55 wrote:
Why's he still taking up someone's spot? I like Violet but get your shit straight first.
He is not _taking_ anyone's spot. he earned it by _beating_ them at SC2.
I'm looking forward at the outrage of the same people that are advocating that navel-centric view of the world, if a US player ever make it to a WCS finals and get denied his entry visa to where ever that tournament is held.
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On August 05 2013 08:08 shmget wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2013 06:06 havok55 wrote:
Why's he still taking up someone's spot? I like Violet but get your shit straight first. He is not _taking_ anyone's spot. he earned it by _beating_ them at SC2. I'm looking forward at the outrage of the same people that are advocating that navel-centric view of the world, if a US player ever make it to a WCS finals and get denied his entry visa to where ever that tournament is held.
That's fair if the US player lived in the country in question illegally, left, and then tried to get back in. If the player just is rejected a visa because the country doesn't like his country, then there might be a legitimate gripe.
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On August 05 2013 07:44 BrassMonkey27 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2013 07:33 Serek wrote:
Again? Why is he still allowed to play in WCS AM? Takes a spot away from a North American player and now can't even play.. fuckin awesome.
No he did not. he qualified, he did not take anyone's spot, even less a 'North American' player, considering that his R32 group was 3 koreans and 1 chinese.
and that in code A, he beat Major who qualified to code S anyway...
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Its his own fault for staying in the US illegally.
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On August 05 2013 06:54 AgentW wrote:California's where everything's going to be at from now on, considering NASL and Blizzard are both located in SoCal. MLG is located in NY, hence the Season 1 finals were there. What I said is absolutely correct.
You said that WCS will likely _never_ be play anywhere but California (despite the _fact_ that it _has_)... on the ground, among other things that NASL is located in California, and would logistically not be able to do it in Canada... despite NASL voluntarily hosting they NASL finals in Toronto, Canada. So the whole 'logistically impossible' rational is certainly not 'absolute'
You also stated the ground that Blizzard is in California as a reason, despite the fact that the Season 1 final where in NY, which indicate that where Blizzard head-quarter is not an 'absolute' factor either.
We must certainly have a different definition of 'absolutely correct'.
PS: btw: http://www.activisionblizzard.com/locations
note under the 'Studio' section : Quebec City, Canada [... ] Vancouver, Canada.
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On August 05 2013 06:57 mki wrote:
For me the bigger issue is:
why did Violet decided to play in the AM region instead of EU or KR if he knew he's going to have visa issues.
Maybe that is a hint that he did not, in fact, knew.
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On August 05 2013 08:12 AgentW wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2013 08:08 shmget wrote:On August 05 2013 06:06 havok55 wrote:
Why's he still taking up someone's spot? I like Violet but get your shit straight first. He is not _taking_ anyone's spot. he earned it by _beating_ them at SC2. I'm looking forward at the outrage of the same people that are advocating that navel-centric view of the world, if a US player ever make it to a WCS finals and get denied his entry visa to where ever that tournament is held. That's fair if the US player lived in the country in question illegally, left, and then tried to get back in. If the player just is rejected a visa because the country doesn't like his country, then there might be a legitimate gripe.
Like for Jim ?
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On August 05 2013 08:26 shmget wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2013 06:54 AgentW wrote:California's where everything's going to be at from now on, considering NASL and Blizzard are both located in SoCal. MLG is located in NY, hence the Season 1 finals were there. What I said is absolutely correct. You said that WCS will likely _never_ be play anywhere but California (despite the _fact_ that it _has_)... on the ground, among other things that NASL is located in California, and would logistically not be able to do it in Canada... despite NASL voluntarily hosting they NASL finals in Toronto, Canada. So the whole 'logistically impossible' rational is certainly not 'absolute' You also stated the ground that Blizzard is in California as a reason, despite the fact that the Season 1 final where in NY, which indicate that where Blizzard head-quarter is not an 'absolute' factor either. We must certainly have a different definition of 'absolutely correct'. PS: btw: http://www.activisionblizzard.com/locationsnote under the 'Studio' section : Quebec City, Canada [... ] Vancouver, Canada.
I thought that WCS never being played anywhere but in California in the future was implied, but that seems to have flown over your head.
The logistical possibility of having the finals in Toronto is non-existant. NASL/Blizzard/WCS is only going to lose money by doing it, so why bother?
On August 05 2013 08:28 shmget wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2013 06:57 mki wrote:
For me the bigger issue is:
why did Violet decided to play in the AM region instead of EU or KR if he knew he's going to have visa issues. Maybe that is a hint that he did not, in fact, knew.
Except that he did after being denied re-entry after Season 1. Are you intentionally ignoring facts at this point?
On August 05 2013 08:33 shmget wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2013 08:12 AgentW wrote:On August 05 2013 08:08 shmget wrote:On August 05 2013 06:06 havok55 wrote:
Why's he still taking up someone's spot? I like Violet but get your shit straight first. He is not _taking_ anyone's spot. he earned it by _beating_ them at SC2. I'm looking forward at the outrage of the same people that are advocating that navel-centric view of the world, if a US player ever make it to a WCS finals and get denied his entry visa to where ever that tournament is held. That's fair if the US player lived in the country in question illegally, left, and then tried to get back in. If the player just is rejected a visa because the country doesn't like his country, then there might be a legitimate gripe. Like for Jim ?
Yes, like Jim.
Also, your post formatting is hurting my head.
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On August 05 2013 08:28 shmget wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2013 06:57 mki wrote:
For me the bigger issue is:
why did Violet decided to play in the AM region instead of EU or KR if he knew he's going to have visa issues. Maybe that is a hint that he did not, in fact, knew.
This isn't the first time he has had visa issues related to his prior stay. It's not like this is something that hasn't happened before. If he doesn't know that it's going to be an issue then I don't really no what to say...
I don't know if I should explain WHY it's going to be an issue. But a tl;dr version is the government doesn't care about StarCraft II enough to allow people to break the law.
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On August 05 2013 08:37 AgentW wrote:
I thought that WCS never being played anywhere but in California in the future was implied, but that seems to have flown over your head.
It does not change the fact that the rational you used to justify that position do no hold waters.
The logistical possibility of having the finals in Toronto is non-existant. NASL/Blizzard/WCS is only going to lose money by doing it, so why bother?
oh... so it is a 'because I said so' kind of argument ? never mind then.
On August 05 2013 08:37 AgentW wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2013 08:28 shmget wrote:On August 05 2013 06:57 mki wrote:
For me the bigger issue is:
why did Violet decided to play in the AM region instead of EU or KR if he knew he's going to have visa issues. Maybe that is a hint that he did not, in fact, knew. Except that he did after being denied re-entry after Season 1. Are you intentionally ignoring facts at this point?
Did you read the quote ?
let me re-print it for you
"why did Violet decided to play in the AM region instead of EU or KR if he knew he's going to have visa issues."
There was nothing about 'after season 1', because the poster prolly already knew the answer to that: he would have been prohibited to change region as per Blizzard rules. So the only rational understanding of that statement was the face value of it... why violet chose the WCS AM region [ at all, to start with ] when he [allegedly] knew he's _going to_ have visa issues.
Eh, but what do I know... american english is not my native language, I clearly must be missing some 'subtle' nuances.
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Pretty unfortunate I think it's safe to say he could have gotten quite deep
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On August 05 2013 06:54 Plansix wrote:
So NASL is supposed to move its studio to Canada so people from other countries might more easily Visas? What if all their employees can't get work visas in Canada or don't want to move?
1/ they do not have to 'move' their studio. They already organized their NASL finals in Toronto, without moving their studio. Clearly they know how to do it.
2/ Their employees do not have to 'move', anymore than the players have to 'move' to California under the current system or to New York under the previous one.
3/ There are visa waiver for US citizen to get to Canada (and reciprocally). there is no more risk that their employee get denied entry to Canada, than there is that Scarlett get denied entry to the US... which is ~0. otoh 18.75% of season 2 RO16 participants got visa problems to get into the US.
4/ NASL does not _have_ to organized the WCS region finals... they did not organize season 1 did they ?
5/ and yes, it would be a good idea to organize international competition in foreigner-friendly countries.
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People who fail to show up for the offline portion should be suspended for the next season and then requalify.
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EPT
