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On August 05 2013 04:45 RyLai wrote:
This is fucking bullshit. Almost exactly a month ago, LoL got recognition for being a sport, therefore making it extremely easy to get a visa in Violet's situation for his needs. This is fucking bullshit that LoL is the only game that has gotten this treatment. As far as I know, LoL players haven't had nearly as many visa issues as SC2 players. (They've had more issues of players getting drunk, oversleeping, or having other obligations.) I'm not going to get into arguments of games, numbers, viewership, etc, but I'm a bit pissed when a game that has has very little issue with visas gets recognized when the game that has been around longer and has had plenty of visa issues gets ignored. If at least HoN was recognized as a sport, I'd be less pissed because that's been around longer too.
What that crap?
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Hmm, will this discourage players from playing in regions that they aren't native to for WCS?
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What did you expect to happen when you overstay your visa? To stop this they need to make it a requirement that you have a valid visa before the tournament even starts. This is the 2nd time he has had this issue with WCS AM and both times it has caused another player that could have shown up for the tournament to not get a spot. Keep in mind Jims visa issue has still not be resolved(or at least announced) so there is potentially 2 spots in the ro16 that are completely wasted. I honestly think some sort of punishment should be implemented.
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On August 05 2013 04:45 RyLai wrote:
This is fucking bullshit. Almost exactly a month ago, LoL got recognition for being a sport, therefore making it extremely easy to get a visa in Violet's situation for his needs. This is fucking bullshit that LoL is the only game that has gotten this treatment. As far as I know, LoL players haven't had nearly as many visa issues as SC2 players. (They've had more issues of players getting drunk, oversleeping, or having other obligations.) I'm not going to get into arguments of games, numbers, viewership, etc, but I'm a bit pissed when a game that has has very little issue with visas gets recognized when the game that has been around longer and has had plenty of visa issues gets ignored. If at least HoN was recognized as a sport, I'd be less pissed because that's been around longer too.
You actually think that game age is even remotely relevant for Visas? You think LoL players getting athlete designation is remotely relevant to SC2 players getting Visas?
Your post is the only bullshit here...
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This has got to lead to a WCS temp ban against viOLet.... You don't just forfeit your spot in two playoff seasons in a row....
The problem is with him and his agents. Either his agents are lying to him or they aren't doing their jobs well enough, or at the very least it's something along these lines.
I love viOLet, but coming from neutral standpoint, he should be temp banned at least 1 season, if not the year.
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If, like people said, this is because Violet stayed in America way longer than he was supposed to last time, than he deserves this. Why would you let him back into the US when he breached your trust the first time? He's not the victim here...
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Why the hell would you even let him in the tournament unless you had something in writing regarding the situation to make you reconsider? He stayed here illegally, and while he's a great player, you gave a spot to the tournament to someone with no hopes of finishing it.
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On August 05 2013 05:36 Shinta) wrote:
This has got to lead to a WCS temp ban against viOLet.... You don't just forfeit your spot in two playoff seasons in a row....
The problem is with him and his agents. Either his agents are lying to him or they aren't doing their jobs well enough, or at the very least it's something along these lines.
I love viOLet, but coming from neutral standpoint, he should be temp banned at least 1 season, if not the year.
I agree, but only if he doesn't stop with those silly Kappafaces.
Otherwise I think he should get off with a warning.
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Why's he still taking up someone's spot? I like Violet but get your shit straight first.
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On August 04 2013 21:10 Amaril wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2013 20:50 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 04 2013 20:47 Amaril wrote:
Thats why its a terrible idea to do SC2 Events in america! All WCS NA Events should be held in Germany or Korea. Isn't there a minimum age requirement for competing in Germany? That's hardly ideal... 16
?? so Germany cannot host the Olympics ???
(no age requirement in the Olympics, except as provided by the rules of each sport... and surely Gymnastic, for instance, does not have a 16 years old minimum req.)
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On August 05 2013 06:06 shmget wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2013 21:10 Amaril wrote:On August 04 2013 20:50 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 04 2013 20:47 Amaril wrote:
Thats why its a terrible idea to do SC2 Events in america! All WCS NA Events should be held in Germany or Korea. Isn't there a minimum age requirement for competing in Germany? That's hardly ideal... 16 ?? so Germany cannot host the Olympics ??? (no age requirement in the Olympics, except as provided by the rules of each sport... and surely Gymnastic, for instance, does not have a 16 years old minimum req.)
I am sure everyone writes exceptions to those laws for the Olympics.
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On August 04 2013 22:38 AgentW wrote:
I also love how people keep saying "why not host it in another country?" like it's practical and cost efficient to do so.
What make you think that it would be more expensive to host it somewhere else ?
as for 'pratical' given the number of US players in the RO16, it owuld be just as practical to host it in Canada.
and mind you Canada has internet too... but are much more welcoming of foreigner, visitor or otherwise.
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On August 05 2013 06:12 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2013 06:06 shmget wrote:On August 04 2013 21:10 Amaril wrote:On August 04 2013 20:50 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 04 2013 20:47 Amaril wrote:
Thats why its a terrible idea to do SC2 Events in america! All WCS NA Events should be held in Germany or Korea. Isn't there a minimum age requirement for competing in Germany? That's hardly ideal... 16 ?? so Germany cannot host the Olympics ??? (no age requirement in the Olympics, except as provided by the rules of each sport... and surely Gymnastic, for instance, does not have a 16 years old minimum req.) I am sure everyone writes exceptions to those laws for the Olympics.
well they hosted the world championship in 2007
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_World_Artistic_Gymnastics_Championships
he youngest athlete was 14
are they writing 'exception' for every international competition they host ? every time ?
That sound weird.
Beside there are plenty of competition at the national level for below 16 athlete in many sports...
Isn't the 16 limitation a 'employement' limitation. iow one cannot become 'pro' with a german-based sport team if less than 16 ?
(and I don't think that 'prize' money => pro)
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On August 05 2013 06:23 shmget wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2013 06:12 Plansix wrote:On August 05 2013 06:06 shmget wrote:On August 04 2013 21:10 Amaril wrote:On August 04 2013 20:50 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 04 2013 20:47 Amaril wrote:
Thats why its a terrible idea to do SC2 Events in america! All WCS NA Events should be held in Germany or Korea. Isn't there a minimum age requirement for competing in Germany? That's hardly ideal... 16 ?? so Germany cannot host the Olympics ??? (no age requirement in the Olympics, except as provided by the rules of each sport... and surely Gymnastic, for instance, does not have a 16 years old minimum req.) I am sure everyone writes exceptions to those laws for the Olympics. well they hoste the world championship in 2007 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_World_Artistic_Gymnastics_Championshipshe youngest althele was 14 are they writing 'exception' for every international competition they host ? every time ? That sound weird. Beside there are plenty of competition at the national level for below 16 athlete in many sports... Isn't the 16 limitation a 'employement' limitation. iow one cannot become 'pro' with a german-based sport team if less than 16 ? (and I don't think that 'prize' money => pro)
Let me put it to you this way, you have to bid on hosting the Olympics and I don't think they are going to let you host them unless you agree to follow all their rules, including their age requirement. Which means you need to do something to your laws if the don't line up.
On August 05 2013 06:16 shmget wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2013 22:38 AgentW wrote:
I also love how people keep saying "why not host it in another country?" like it's practical and cost efficient to do so. What make you think that it would be more expensive to host it somewhere else ? as for 'pratical' given the number of US players in the RO16, it owuld be just as practical to host it in Canada. and mind you Canada has internet too... but are much more welcoming of foreigner, visitor or otherwise.
Where else would Blizzard host the NA event and why would this area not have visa problems too? The US is not the only place that has visa requirements. A friend of my from Burma just got denied to go to the UK, even those they have had no problems before. Her Visa to the US was approved with no problems for the same trip.
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On August 04 2013 22:43 AgentW wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2013 22:42 calh wrote:On August 04 2013 22:38 AgentW wrote:
Qualifying for two consecutive Ro16, knocking out players, when you're not sure if you'll be able to attend the offline Ro16 and onward just doesn't seem right.
Technically none of the non-US resident player can be sure they'll be able to attend Ro16 though. Fair enough, but when you've been denied entry before because of an issue that hasn't been resolved, you should think twice about re-upping until you can set things straight.
Well, the rules says that you cannot change WCS region... so what is Violet to do, stop competing altogether, not get _any_ point, just because he was denied once...
and what about the season finales.. there are 2 in the US... should people competing in WCS Europe and WCS Korea be bared from competing if they may have visa issue to get into the US ?
iow... what if Violet got in WCS Korea for season 2 and finished top 5 ?
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On August 05 2013 06:16 shmget wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2013 22:38 AgentW wrote:
I also love how people keep saying "why not host it in another country?" like it's practical and cost efficient to do so. What make you think that it would be more expensive to host it somewhere else ? as for 'pratical' given the number of US players in the RO16, it owuld be just as practical to host it in Canada. and mind you Canada has internet too... but are much more welcoming of foreigner, visitor or otherwise.
Well, let's take a look see, shall we?
NASL is located in... America! Blizzard is located in... America! All of Blizzard and NASL's production equipment is in... America! Plane tickets and moving lots of important equipment isn't free, hence WCS likely will never be played anywhere but California.
On August 05 2013 06:29 shmget wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2013 22:43 AgentW wrote:On August 04 2013 22:42 calh wrote:On August 04 2013 22:38 AgentW wrote:
Qualifying for two consecutive Ro16, knocking out players, when you're not sure if you'll be able to attend the offline Ro16 and onward just doesn't seem right.
Technically none of the non-US resident player can be sure they'll be able to attend Ro16 though. Fair enough, but when you've been denied entry before because of an issue that hasn't been resolved, you should think twice about re-upping until you can set things straight. Well, the rules says that you cannot change WCS region... so what is Violet to do, stop competing altogether, not get _any_ point, just because he was denied once... and what about the season finales.. there are 2 in the US... should people competing in WCS Europe and WCS Korea be bared from competing if they may have visa issue to get into the US ? iow... what if Violet got in WCS Korea for season 2 and finished top 5 ?
viOLet should have played in WCS Korea when he had a chance after Season 1 considering the information we have now (and the information he clearly had then).
Also, there's no matter of "should" be barred from competing. The US government has the final say in the matter, it's their decision who to let into the country.
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On August 05 2013 06:29 shmget wrote:
Well, the rules says that you cannot change WCS region... so what is Violet to do, stop competing altogether, not get _any_ point, just because he was denied once...
Yes, he should withdraw from WCS AM completely until he can get his visa issues sorted. And it's not once, this is the second time he's been denied a visa and had to pull out.
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On August 05 2013 06:25 Plansix wrote:
Let me put it to you this way, you have to bid on hosting the Olympics and I don't think they are going to let you host them unless you agree to follow all their rules, including their age requirement. Which means you need to do something to your laws if the don't line up.
I agree that the Olympic often get special waiver for plenty of stuff (including visa)
that is why I gave a link about a World ChampionShip
My point is that I doubt the 16 requirement is related to 'competing in a sporting event'...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany_national_youth_football_team
Germany has a U-15 National football team. QED.
Where else would Blizzard host the NA event and why would this area not have visa problems too? The US is not the only place that has visa requirements. A friend of my from Burma just got denied to go to the UK, even those they have had no
problems before. Her Visa to the US was approved with no problems for the same trip.
For one thing. it is not a NA event. it is called WCS America not WCS NA or WCS USA
Second, Sure everyone has a horror story about visa everywhere... but here there are plenty of such problem: 3 in a base sample of 16 (well 15, since 1 RO16 participant is from the US)
Let's try Canada and see how many of the 16 get denied...
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On August 05 2013 06:30 AgentW wrote:
Well, let's take a look see, shall we?
NASL is located in... America! Blizzard is located in... America! All of Blizzard and NASL's production equipment is in... America! Plane tickets and moving lots of important equipment isn't free, hence WCS likely will never be played anywhere but California.
and last season it was hosted in... New York, which last I checked is not in California.
and NASL has no problem organizing finales in Canada:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=239623
http://www.gamespot.com/news/nasl-finals-hitting-toronto-july-14-15-6373644
viOLet should have played in WCS Korea when he had a chance after Season 1 considering the information we have now (and the information he clearly had then).
I have no idea what 'information' Violet had back then... but as visa goes... you don;t know until you apply and are denied... and they do not have to give you a 'reason'. beside that does not change that eh would still not be able to get a visa to get the the season Finale or the global finale. In general it would be best to host these even in country that are more welcoming of foreigners.
Also, there's no matter of "should" be barred from competing. The US government has the final say in the matter, it's their decision who to let into the country.
Well, some in this thread argue that Blizzard should have prevented him from entering the tournament altogether.
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On August 05 2013 06:39 shmget wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2013 06:25 Plansix wrote:
Let me put it to you this way, you have to bid on hosting the Olympics and I don't think they are going to let you host them unless you agree to follow all their rules, including their age requirement. Which means you need to do something to your laws if the don't line up.
I agree that the Olympic often get special waiver for plenty of stuff (including visa) that is why I gave a link about a World ChampionShip My point is that I doubt the 16 requirement is related to 'competing in a sporting event'... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany_national_youth_football_teamGermany has a U-15 National football team. QED. Show nested quote +
Where else would Blizzard host the NA event and why would this area not have visa problems too? The US is not the only place that has visa requirements. A friend of my from Burma just got denied to go to the UK, even those they have had no
problems before. Her Visa to the US was approved with no problems for the same trip.
For one thing. it is not a NA event. it is called WCS America not WCS NA or WCS USA Second, Sure everyone has a horror story about visa everywhere... but here there are plenty of such problem: 3 in a base sample of 16 (well 15, since 1 RO16 participant is from the US) Let's try Canada and see how many of the 16 get denied...
So NASL is supposed to move its studio to Canada so people from other countries might more easily Visas? What if all their employees can't get work visas in Canada or don't want to move?
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EPT
