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On August 05 2013 09:20 shmget wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2013 06:54 Plansix wrote:
So NASL is supposed to move its studio to Canada so people from other countries might more easily Visas? What if all their employees can't get work visas in Canada or don't want to move? 1/ they do not have to 'move' their studio. They already organized their NASL finals in Toronto, without moving their studio. Clearly they know how to do it. 2/ Their employees do not have to 'move', anymore than the players have to 'move' to California under the current system or to New York under the previous one. 3/ There are visa waiver for US citizen to get to Canada (and reciprocally). there is no more risk that their employee get denied entry to Canada, than there is that Scarlett get denied entry to the US... which is ~0. otoh 18.75% of season 2 RO16 participants got visa problems to get into the US. 4/ NASL does not _have_ to organized the WCS region finals... they did not organize season 1 did they ? 5/ and yes, it would be a good idea to organize international competition in foreigner-friendly countries.
The finals happened in Toronto. The round of 16 and the semi finals happened in studio. So unless they are going to rent a studio for 2-3 weeks in Toronto, it's not going to happen. Move the whole thing to a different country is never a simple or easy option for anyone or any business.
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On August 05 2013 09:24 nkr wrote:
People who fail to show up for the offline portion should be suspended for the next season and then requalify.
Nah, he needs to be banned from WCS for the rest of the year. The situation for viOlet sucks, but this makes WCS look bad. How does it look for spectators when competitors can't even compete? It makes Blizzard look incompetent at running a tournament. Something that a billion dollar company shouldn't really struggle with...
This situation is going to keep happening and it isn't going to make WCS look any better if players struggle to even show up.
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On August 05 2013 08:14 shmget wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2013 07:44 BrassMonkey27 wrote:On August 05 2013 07:33 Serek wrote:
Again? Why is he still allowed to play in WCS AM? Takes a spot away from a North American player and now can't even play.. fuckin awesome. No he did not. he qualified, he did not take anyone's spot, even less a 'North American' player, considering that his R32 group was 3 koreans and 1 chinese. and that in code A, he beat Major who qualified to code S anyway...
He may have qualified but he still isn't playing in his native region. This is why we have a dying NA scene.. unbeatable Koreans migrating to take easy money and now they can't even get their shit together to play after resources have been spent acommodating them? 3 potential walkovers in the round of 16.. its disgusting. No wonder we have players like Theognis retiring left right and center.. the current system gives them zero confidence that things will be run properly. And don't give me that shit about them rightfully qualifying..WCS 2as implemented to grow their respective regions. The way it currently plays out does nothing of the sort.
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On liquibet policy, can there be a change where it is unselected if u choose someone who later is DQd or does not attend cus visa type issues? This is the 2nd time ive picked violet and 2nd time he's had Visa issues. 
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On August 05 2013 09:02 shmget wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2013 08:37 AgentW wrote:
I thought that WCS never being played anywhere but in California in the future was implied, but that seems to have flown over your head.
It does not change the fact that the rational you used to justify that position do no hold waters. Show nested quote +
The logistical possibility of having the finals in Toronto is non-existant. NASL/Blizzard/WCS is only going to lose money by doing it, so why bother?
oh... so it is a 'because I said so' kind of argument ? never mind then. Show nested quote +On August 05 2013 08:37 AgentW wrote:On August 05 2013 08:28 shmget wrote:On August 05 2013 06:57 mki wrote:
For me the bigger issue is:
why did Violet decided to play in the AM region instead of EU or KR if he knew he's going to have visa issues. Maybe that is a hint that he did not, in fact, knew. Except that he did after being denied re-entry after Season 1. Are you intentionally ignoring facts at this point? Did you read the quote ? let me re-print it for you "why did Violet decided to play in the AM region instead of EU or KR if he knew he's going to have visa issues." There was nothing about 'after season 1', because the poster prolly already knew the answer to that: he would have been prohibited to change region as per Blizzard rules. So the only rational understanding of that statement was the face value of it... why violet chose the WCS AM region [ at all, to start with ] when he [allegedly] knew he's _going to_ have visa issues. Eh, but what do I know... american english is not my native language, I clearly must be missing some 'subtle' nuances.
Violet has been been having issues with getting his Visa denied since Jan 2013, according to his manager, CSN Andrew. That is 3 months before WCS AM Season 1 2013. So Violet knew that there was a chance he would not be able to compete in the WCS AM offline section, due to these Visa issues. Knowing of these Visa issues, Violet should have entered WCS KR because he already was in Korea and had been since Dec 2012.
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On August 05 2013 10:19 revel8 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2013 09:02 shmget wrote:On August 05 2013 08:37 AgentW wrote:
I thought that WCS never being played anywhere but in California in the future was implied, but that seems to have flown over your head.
It does not change the fact that the rational you used to justify that position do no hold waters.
The logistical possibility of having the finals in Toronto is non-existant. NASL/Blizzard/WCS is only going to lose money by doing it, so why bother?
oh... so it is a 'because I said so' kind of argument ? never mind then. On August 05 2013 08:37 AgentW wrote:On August 05 2013 08:28 shmget wrote:On August 05 2013 06:57 mki wrote:
For me the bigger issue is:
why did Violet decided to play in the AM region instead of EU or KR if he knew he's going to have visa issues. Maybe that is a hint that he did not, in fact, knew. Except that he did after being denied re-entry after Season 1. Are you intentionally ignoring facts at this point? Did you read the quote ? let me re-print it for you "why did Violet decided to play in the AM region instead of EU or KR if he knew he's going to have visa issues." There was nothing about 'after season 1', because the poster prolly already knew the answer to that: he would have been prohibited to change region as per Blizzard rules. So the only rational understanding of that statement was the face value of it... why violet chose the WCS AM region [ at all, to start with ] when he [allegedly] knew he's _going to_ have visa issues. Eh, but what do I know... american english is not my native language, I clearly must be missing some 'subtle' nuances. Violet has been been having issues with getting his Visa denied since Jan 2013, according to his manager, CSN Andrew. That is 3 months before WCS AM Season 1 2013. So Violet knew that there was a chance he would not be able to compete in the WCS NA offline section, due to these Visa issues. Knowing of these Visa issues, Violet should have entered WCS KR because he already was in Korea and had been since Dec 2012.
Having your Visa squared away should be a requirement for even competing in the qualifiers. Situations like this are the result of bad foresight.
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Northern Ireland25635 Posts
Violet is one of the few Koreans who has a real affinity with NA, who actually lived there for a period etc.
It's a shame about his visa situation, but it's unfair to make out like Violet is coming for easy money, when pretty much out of most of the Korean WCS NA players he has contributed the most to that actual scene.
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WCS needs rules to deal with people who try to compete in regions they can't get visas for. This is not acceptable for the people who were knocked out.
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I mean on one hand it's totally reasonable to penalize violet for this, it's a dick move to take up spots in a tournament you know there's a chance you can't even go to.
On the other hand, I do feel bad for him.
Edit: And NASL shouldn't have to up and move their tournament to another country because of players like violet having visa issues. The Chinese issues are a concern, but that's on Blizzard for ignoring pretty much the entire China/SEA region.
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On August 05 2013 07:15 R1CH wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2013 02:04 zaxx wrote:On August 05 2013 01:56 sitromit wrote:On August 05 2013 01:20 zaxx wrote:On August 04 2013 23:44 tree.hugger wrote:
This should surprise nobody. Last time the US let viOlet in, he abused his visa and overstayed. He broke the law. That's their perspective and it happens to be correct. I know online we're all one big happy family, but countries take this stuff seriously. viOlet and his management really screwed up. Honestly, viOlet should probably try to switch regions, because it's going to continue to be hard/impossible for him to get into the US for years. Your information is just plain wrong. viOlet NEVER broke any US laws during any of his stays in the United States. "Their" perspective is that even though he did not break the law, and he was well within the technical rights to stay when and as long as he did, it was still suspicious that he stayed for the lengths of times he did. The US has the right to deny anyone at their own discretion, regardless of whether a law was actually broken or not. "Right to deny anyone service" applies to them as well as US businesses. To say viOlet broke the law without any actual facts is purely speculative and damages more than it helps. Sometimes it is better to not say anything at all. No, he overstayed. I remember thinking when he was living here, "How is he staying here so long on what's probably a visa-waiver that he used to get in?". I thought he might have signed up for an educational program and changed his status, but he hadn't. His rights were to stay in the US for 3 months. He stayed far longer than that. When you overstay your status, it becomes extremely difficult to get back in the country once you leave, which is what happened to him. What first hand knowledge or facts of the situation do you know? He stayed on an ESTA waiver, which allows you to stay for 3 months at a time (you are correct there). However, the time resets when you leave the country for a certain amount of time. If you do your homework, you will realize that he always had a foreign (European or otherwise) event that reset the waiver to 90 days. Going to those events for that 5-7 days allowed him to come back to the USA and stay for a brand new 90 days before resetting the waiver again. In accordance to the laws and permissions granted to the ESTA, he was within his rights to stay the lengths of time he did. You are allowed 90 days once you enter, but if you leave before those 90 days are up you're not supposed to come back again until the 90 days is up. Also there is a maximum of 180 days in a year you can stay, and I'm pretty sure violet exceeded that with his multiple trips. You could also argue that he wasn't supposed to use the waiver program since he was 'working' in the country during his time here, but that's a grey-ish area. To be fair CSN share a lot of the blame here since they should have known this would happen and not let him violate his visa status and jeopardize the possibility of him coming to the US again.
I think it's really silly of azubu/csn/violet to sign up for season 2 given all that information.
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On August 05 2013 11:19 blobrus wrote:
I mean on one hand it's totally reasonable to penalize violet for this, it's a dick move to take up spots in a tournament you know there's a chance you can't even go to.
On the other hand, I do feel bad for him.
Edit: And NASL shouldn't have to up and move their tournament to another country because of players like violet having visa issues. The Chinese issues are a concern, but that's on Blizzard for ignoring pretty much the entire China/SEA region.
Why not ? it is WCS America, not WCS USA. There is no reason for the finals not to occurs anywhere in the Americas.
And it is not like that Visa crap is restricted to China/SEA... anyone south of the US border would have just as hard a time to get a Visa.
I find it amazing the lack of ability of some to put themselves in the other's shoes... That's called the Golden Rule: if the role were reverse what would be your reaction ? IF the USA were dominating the scene and a bunch of them could not make it to Korea, for example, because of Visa issue... how would you react ? would you blame the US players ?
Edit: Apparently Jim got his visa... great news... so it boils down to only Violet. So things are not _that_ bad after all.... sicne Violet situation seems to be a bit more complicated than the 2 chineses players, which surely could not have been accused of allegedly 'breaking the law'.
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juicyjames
United States3815 Posts
On a related note, both Jim and MacSed got their VISAs.
(2:11 AM - 1 Aug 13) Good News：iG.Macsed got his US VISA in the 2nd try. Jim 's VISA still in progress.
(9:09 PM - 4 Aug 13) w00t. Just got confirmation on Jim's Visa. America are you prepared? #ChinaStandsForFreedom #WCS
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
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On August 05 2013 07:44 BrassMonkey27 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2013 07:33 Serek wrote:
Again? Why is he still allowed to play in WCS AM? Takes a spot away from a North American player and now can't even play.. fuckin awesome.
Takes a spot away from another Korean / Chinese player and now can't even play ... fucking awesome
fixed it for ya
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On August 04 2013 21:30 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2013 21:10 Amaril wrote:On August 04 2013 20:50 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 04 2013 20:47 Amaril wrote:
Thats why its a terrible idea to do SC2 Events in america! All WCS NA Events should be held in Germany or Korea. Isn't there a minimum age requirement for competing in Germany? That's hardly ideal... 16 Yeah. I'm just saying, FlaSh and Life won the most prestigious titles of their respective games when they were 15. If I'm not mistaken Creator was also 15 when he won TSL4 and WCS KR 2012. There's other examples I'm sure. Hell you guys have HeRoMaRiNe who's been pretty good lately right? :/
This only is the case when the event is after 2200 and Heromarine is 16.
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On August 05 2013 17:16 Amaril wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2013 21:30 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 04 2013 21:10 Amaril wrote:On August 04 2013 20:50 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 04 2013 20:47 Amaril wrote:
Thats why its a terrible idea to do SC2 Events in america! All WCS NA Events should be held in Germany or Korea. Isn't there a minimum age requirement for competing in Germany? That's hardly ideal... 16 Yeah. I'm just saying, FlaSh and Life won the most prestigious titles of their respective games when they were 15. If I'm not mistaken Creator was also 15 when he won TSL4 and WCS KR 2012. There's other examples I'm sure. Hell you guys have HeRoMaRiNe who's been pretty good lately right? :/ This only is the case when the event is after 2200
I guess that's not so bad then. Good to have that cleared up. ^^
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is there an official statement about whether he actually overstayed illegally or not? it would clear things up.
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United States33432 Posts
It seems like WCS AM organizers didn't really try to assess viOLet's chances and just went with his management's assurances that he would be able to get things sorted out by season II.
Now that it's happened again, Blizz will probably need to start assessing these things themselves, and decline participation to players who they think have a sufficiently low chance of qualifying for a visa :/
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juicyjames
United States3815 Posts
On August 05 2013 18:07 29 fps wrote:
is there an official statement about whether he actually overstayed illegally or not? it would clear things up.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18680131
On May 23 2013 18:56 csn_andrew wrote:
I posted this on reddit but I will post it here as well to shed some light on the matter.
"First I want to make clear viOLet and myself take full responsibility for not being able to obtain the VISA. However, I will let you know that I have done more research on this subject the past 3 months and we even hired an immigration specialist to assist him after he was denied the first time around back in January.
Also fishing for sympathy? I think you will see once viOLet tweets his statement that you will bite your tongue regarding that remark. He takes full responsibility for this and is very sorry for the effect it will have on WCS, MLG, and his fans.
(directed at someone on reddit)
viOLet was extremely well prepared for his interview and had all the necessary paperwork in order. What it comes down to is that Embassy Officials have an immense amount of power and can basically do what ever they please with no recourse to be taken against them. The process of getting any VISA whether it be a B1/F1/or O1 is not crystal clear. If you go and read VISA experiences on various travel websites you will see that there is no clear defined you need X,Y, and Z and your guaranteed to receive the VISA. There is some mandatory paperwork, and protocols/measures you can take which we prepared amply for but at the end of the day in extreme cases like viOLet's it can hurt your chances regardless.
Also, as I stated above, because viOLet spent more time in the U.S. in 2012 than he did in Korea, that flags him in the system and makes it even more difficult. Also you mention that he was the only Korean not able to come, let me shed some light on this.
For the past 2-3 years all the Koreans have been coming over to the U.S. on ESTA VISA waivers which technically isn't even the correct VISA to be competing for prize money. If customs were aware of this upon their entry it is likely they would get denied access to the U.S.
viOLet's situation is an extreme case because of how much time he has spent in the U.S. previously. The other Koreans come in for the weekend and go back on the Monday after, not creating any red flags with immigration. So before you blame viOLet for dropping the ball, that was in fact not the case at all.
Shit happens, sometimes out of our control."
viOLet's Statement: "First I want to apologize to Blizzard,MLG, but most of all my fans. You know I have match tomorrow for Ro16 in MLG studio, but I can't go because of VISA troubles.
I’m so sad my mental is broken… I’m really stuck, make me feel sick that I can’t compete. I trying to my best for other way it just take a little time, I do really apologize again very very sorry to Blizzard, MLG, and my fans.. So sad it is all my fault, I really appreciate that Blizzard and MLG trying to help. I wish the WCS and MLG will be success ending this season!!! Sorry once again."
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EPT
