• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 00:21
CEST 06:21
KST 13:21
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview5[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 20268Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)10[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June4Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale0
StarCraft 2
General
RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 2026 TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes? Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners High level ptr replays? where can I find them?
Tourneys
Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) GSL Code S Season 2 (2026)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
Mutation # 530 One For All The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed Mutation # 528 Infection Detected
Brood War
General
Where is EffOrt? BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ vespene.gg — BW replays in browser Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Grand Finals [BSL22] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CEST Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Does Workplace Frustration D…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7890 users

TSL Player Eligibility and Nongminzerg

Forum Index > TSL2 Forum
518 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 24 25 26 Next All
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36401 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-12 03:37:23
November 12 2009 02:07 GMT
#1
[image loading]

TSL Player Eligibility and Nongminzerg

Everyone recognizes the disadvantage of living in a location that does not have a professional StarCraft scene. There is a lack of support for the progamer career -- financially, socially, and competitively. The TSL helps, even if just a little, to bridge that inequality. One of the TSL's major goals has been to promote and enhance the non-professional or "foreigner" scene. That is why we did not allow any professional players to play in the first TSL. Additional lag problems and identity enforcement issues made it much easier for us to simply ban certain countries' IP address from participating. We granted a special exception for several players who currently resided in a location with a proscene or had received professional training in the past -- IdrA, Legionnaire, Nazgul, and Rekrul.

The reasoning behind allowing these players to play was not based on their level of training, or the color of their skin. We simply did not want to stop someone from moving to Korea to pursue his dream of becoming a professional StarCraft player. A rule that banned any of these players from the TSL would undoubtedly harm him and all amateur StarCraft players greatly, and they already faced enough challenges on their road to becoming a professional gamer. Excluding these players would hurt the foreign scene and is the opposite of what we want to accomplish with the TSL.

Thus, we have created this rule for TSL Player Eligibility:
    A player is eligible to play in the TSL if:
  • He does not have connection lag that would significantly impact quality of play; AND EITHER:
  • He grew up in a location without a professional StarCraft scene; OR
  • He currently resides in a location without a professional StarCraft scene AND is not affiliated with a professional StarCraft team

We do not want to exclude a Korean player who grew up outside their respective countries, as they faced the same disadvantages as anyone else outside Korea. We also do not want to allow a professional or semi-professional player from simply moving outside their country of origin for the duration of the TSL.

This brings us to the very difficult issue of Nongminzerg. Nongmin was born in Korea and moved to the United States for high school. While Nongmin was offered KTF training matches, he was never officially affiliated with any professional team. When Nongmin first asked us if he could play in the TSL, we replied that he would be allowed to play, provided he resided inside the United States. Nongmin informed us that he would be moving back to Korea for the duration of the TSL, possibly until the summer of 2010 -- which would make him ineligible to play, unless we grant him a special exception.

When determining whether to grant an exception, we not only look at whether the player benefitted from growing up in a location without a professional StarCraft scene, but also whether the player has a long history of being a part of and contributing to the "foreigner" community. This is the case with every player who was granted an exception.

Nongmin has only joined the foreigner community very recently. He has not participated in any foreigner tournaments, leagues, or showmatches. While his livestream is a valuable and appreciated resource, one cannot reasonably argue that Nongmin is as much a part of the foreigner community as the other players who were granted an exception previously. Ideally, Nongmin does not move to Korea and he can play in the TSL. But as long as he is in Korea, he cannot participate for the reasons outlined above.

A word from Nongmin himself:
I really thank you to those who wished me to play. It is just unlucky and bad timing that I go to Korea during TSL. I am sad I cannot play but I understand and will follow the decision.

Nongmin has tentatively agreed to play in a Liquibition match against a top TSL player after the PokerStrategy.com TSL concludes.

This was one of the hardest decisions we have ever had to make. We genuinely like Nongmin -- he is a great guy and many of our staff happily watch his stream. We wish he could play, and it is very unfortunate that his trip back to Korea coincided with the TSL. We hope he continues to be a part of our community, and hopefully he will be able to play in TSL3.
Facebook Twitter Reddit
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
l10f *
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States3241 Posts
November 12 2009 02:11 GMT
#2
I agree with this decision although I would have loved to see nongmin play. Looking forward to TSL, I plan on playing in it
Writer
grobo
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Japan6199 Posts
November 12 2009 02:17 GMT
#3
Hmm seems fair i suppose, i would have loved to see Nongmin play though
We make signature, then defense it.
zergnewb
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States816 Posts
November 12 2009 02:19 GMT
#4
Sad to see he won't play but it seems fair. Just bad timing.
Welcome to the Durst-Zone
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66363 Posts
November 12 2009 02:19 GMT
#5
this means i can play, woot!

sad to see nongmin not being able to play though... looking forward to his liquibition match!
POGGERS
Sorrow
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States55 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-12 02:21:44
November 12 2009 02:20 GMT
#6
i fucking want with all my heart that nongmin SHOULD BE ALLOWED to enter

this article gets my hopes crushed and dreams strangled =[
Aresien
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United Kingdom305 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-12 02:42:45
November 12 2009 02:21 GMT
#7
A tough decision indeed.

Much respect to the admins for laying down the line even though i'm sure many will be dissapointed by the outcome. Hopefully he'll be back for TSL 3 as previously mentioned.

I must say though, dissapointed with the outcome myself. Saying he can play if he stays in the US for this period of time but not if he goes to Korea for a long holiday before university (again in the US) seems *gahhh*. It's not like he gains an advantage by being in a different country for the period of the tournament, regardless though, i'm sure this is set in stone now.
Thratur
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada917 Posts
November 12 2009 02:27 GMT
#8
I'm very sad for Nongmin

I still believe he should be allowed but I accept that decision.
bEsT[Alive]
Profile Joined July 2009
606 Posts
November 12 2009 02:28 GMT
#9
If you are to hold all the players to the same criteria then IdrA, ret and a few others wouldn't allowed to play based on condition number 2. I say let the man play.
If you obey all the rules you miss all the fun - Katharine Hepburn
Sorrow
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States55 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-12 02:30:10
November 12 2009 02:28 GMT
#10
this brings up the question in mind:

why the fuck is idra still allowed to enter, even granted as an exception? what's there to "except" for idra?

i mean, the dude's obviously been immersed in much more progaming scene than any of the other contestants, eligible or ineligible. so why is he still allowed?
Liquid`Nazgul
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
22427 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-12 02:30:52
November 12 2009 02:30 GMT
#11
On November 12 2009 11:28 Sorrow wrote:
this brings up the question in mind:

why the fuck is idra still allowed to enter, even granted as an exception? what's there to "except" for idra?

i mean, the dude's obviously been immersed in much more progaming scene than any of the other contestants, eligible or ineligible. so why is he still allowed?

On November 12 2009 11:28 bEsT[Alive] wrote:
If you are to hold all the players to the same criteria then IdrA, ret and a few others wouldn't allowed to play based on condition number 2. I say let the man play.

A player is eligible to play in the TSL if:
He grew up in a location without a professional StarCraft scene;
Administrator
Severedevil
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4839 Posts
November 12 2009 02:31 GMT
#12
I wouldn't count a temporary stay in Korea in between eight (projected) years of U.S. high school + college to be 'residing in Korea'. It sounds to me like he resides in the U.S., but is on a logistically forced vacation in Korea.

But I'm not fully informed about the situation, and it's not my call.
My strategy is to fork people.
GTR
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
51615 Posts
November 12 2009 02:31 GMT
#13
IdrA grew up in the United States, obviously somewhere with no established professional scene, as stated in the statement above.
Commentator
Kennigit *
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada19447 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-12 02:32:07
November 12 2009 02:31 GMT
#14
Read the news post again.

    A player is eligible to play in the TSL if:
  • He grew up in a location without a professional StarCraft scene; OR
  • He currently resides in a location without a professional StarCraft scene and is not affiliated with a professional StarCraft team; AND
  • He does not have connection lag that would significantly impact quality of play


Idra and ret both grew up in locations without professional starcraft scenes.
Severedevil
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4839 Posts
November 12 2009 02:33 GMT
#15
Out of curiosity, would a person who turned 18 before Broodwar came out automatically qualify for "grew up in a location without a professional Starcraft scene"?
My strategy is to fork people.
Amnesia
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3818 Posts
November 12 2009 02:35 GMT
#16
A shame that nongmin can't play. I truly am sad, but rules are rules.
NrG.NeverExpo
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada2114 Posts
November 12 2009 02:36 GMT
#17
Awesome this is great news!

I had a question about a korean friend who moved to australia a while ago, but i guess he's able to play. That's awesome thanks for clarification!
TwitteR: @NeverExpo follow me, i'll follow back :)
Thratur
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada917 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-12 02:39:27
November 12 2009 02:36 GMT
#18
Wouldn't an official poll be a good idea? I know we are not a democracy, and I accept your decision, but maybe most people would agree to allow him? It looks that you had to decide whether to grant an exception or not... Wouldn't it be possible for the community to make that decision?
NeoOmega
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States495 Posts
November 12 2009 02:42 GMT
#19
Liquibition nongminzerg vs skryoo1004, Im calling it right here.
Slithe
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States985 Posts
November 12 2009 02:43 GMT
#20
For those who are not familiar with logic operator precedence, this can be a bit ambiguous, especially because of the way it was written. The two interpretations:

1 OR (2 AND 3) ==> Correct Interpretation
(1 OR 2) AND 3

Under the second interpretation, one would think that no one from Korea is allowed to play. Maybe it would be good to reformat the rule so that people don't get confused about it?
1 2 3 4 5 24 25 26 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
00:00
Mid Season Playoffs
ByuN vs Shameless
CranKy Ducklings111
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech83
Nina 79
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 4496
Sea 3961
GuemChi 3372
Mind 140
Sexy 48
Noble 23
Bale 19
ZergMaN 16
Terrorterran 12
Icarus 6
Dota 2
monkeys_forever829
NeuroSwarm144
League of Legends
JimRising 897
Other Games
summit1g10170
Day[9].tv1069
C9.Mang0536
WinterStarcraft479
PiGStarcraft286
Maynarde117
Trikslyr103
Liquid`Ken6
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1461
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream541
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 33
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP60
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1382
• Lourlo1198
• Stunt632
Other Games
• Day9tv1069
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
19h 40m
Replay Cast
1d 4h
The PondCast
2 days
OSC
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
GSL
4 days
Maru vs ShoWTimE
Classic vs Reynor
herO vs Lambo
Solar vs Clem
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
4 days
XuanXuan vs Jaystar
Mihu vs Messiah
eOnzErG vs Dewalt
Bonyth vs Jaystar
TerrOr vs Messiah
XuanXuan vs Mihu
eOnzErG vs Jaystar
Replay Cast
4 days
GSL
5 days
Patches Events
5 days
[ Show More ]
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
5 days
Dewalt vs Messiah
Bonyth vs Mihu
TerrOr vs XuanXuan
eOnzErG vs Messiah
Jaystar vs Mihu
Dewalt vs XuanXuan
Bonyth vs TerrOr
Replay Cast
5 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-06-15
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
SCTL 2026 Spring
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
Murky Cup 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1

Upcoming

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Douyu Cup 2026
BCC 2026
Heroes Pulsing #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.