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Active: 605 users

TSL Player Eligibility and Nongminzerg

Forum Index > TSL2 Forum
518 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 24 25 26 Next All
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36374 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-12 03:37:23
November 12 2009 02:07 GMT
#1
[image loading]

TSL Player Eligibility and Nongminzerg

Everyone recognizes the disadvantage of living in a location that does not have a professional StarCraft scene. There is a lack of support for the progamer career -- financially, socially, and competitively. The TSL helps, even if just a little, to bridge that inequality. One of the TSL's major goals has been to promote and enhance the non-professional or "foreigner" scene. That is why we did not allow any professional players to play in the first TSL. Additional lag problems and identity enforcement issues made it much easier for us to simply ban certain countries' IP address from participating. We granted a special exception for several players who currently resided in a location with a proscene or had received professional training in the past -- IdrA, Legionnaire, Nazgul, and Rekrul.

The reasoning behind allowing these players to play was not based on their level of training, or the color of their skin. We simply did not want to stop someone from moving to Korea to pursue his dream of becoming a professional StarCraft player. A rule that banned any of these players from the TSL would undoubtedly harm him and all amateur StarCraft players greatly, and they already faced enough challenges on their road to becoming a professional gamer. Excluding these players would hurt the foreign scene and is the opposite of what we want to accomplish with the TSL.

Thus, we have created this rule for TSL Player Eligibility:
    A player is eligible to play in the TSL if:
  • He does not have connection lag that would significantly impact quality of play; AND EITHER:
  • He grew up in a location without a professional StarCraft scene; OR
  • He currently resides in a location without a professional StarCraft scene AND is not affiliated with a professional StarCraft team

We do not want to exclude a Korean player who grew up outside their respective countries, as they faced the same disadvantages as anyone else outside Korea. We also do not want to allow a professional or semi-professional player from simply moving outside their country of origin for the duration of the TSL.

This brings us to the very difficult issue of Nongminzerg. Nongmin was born in Korea and moved to the United States for high school. While Nongmin was offered KTF training matches, he was never officially affiliated with any professional team. When Nongmin first asked us if he could play in the TSL, we replied that he would be allowed to play, provided he resided inside the United States. Nongmin informed us that he would be moving back to Korea for the duration of the TSL, possibly until the summer of 2010 -- which would make him ineligible to play, unless we grant him a special exception.

When determining whether to grant an exception, we not only look at whether the player benefitted from growing up in a location without a professional StarCraft scene, but also whether the player has a long history of being a part of and contributing to the "foreigner" community. This is the case with every player who was granted an exception.

Nongmin has only joined the foreigner community very recently. He has not participated in any foreigner tournaments, leagues, or showmatches. While his livestream is a valuable and appreciated resource, one cannot reasonably argue that Nongmin is as much a part of the foreigner community as the other players who were granted an exception previously. Ideally, Nongmin does not move to Korea and he can play in the TSL. But as long as he is in Korea, he cannot participate for the reasons outlined above.

A word from Nongmin himself:
I really thank you to those who wished me to play. It is just unlucky and bad timing that I go to Korea during TSL. I am sad I cannot play but I understand and will follow the decision.

Nongmin has tentatively agreed to play in a Liquibition match against a top TSL player after the PokerStrategy.com TSL concludes.

This was one of the hardest decisions we have ever had to make. We genuinely like Nongmin -- he is a great guy and many of our staff happily watch his stream. We wish he could play, and it is very unfortunate that his trip back to Korea coincided with the TSL. We hope he continues to be a part of our community, and hopefully he will be able to play in TSL3.
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@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
l10f *
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States3241 Posts
November 12 2009 02:11 GMT
#2
I agree with this decision although I would have loved to see nongmin play. Looking forward to TSL, I plan on playing in it
Writer
grobo
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Japan6199 Posts
November 12 2009 02:17 GMT
#3
Hmm seems fair i suppose, i would have loved to see Nongmin play though
We make signature, then defense it.
zergnewb
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States816 Posts
November 12 2009 02:19 GMT
#4
Sad to see he won't play but it seems fair. Just bad timing.
Welcome to the Durst-Zone
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66156 Posts
November 12 2009 02:19 GMT
#5
this means i can play, woot!

sad to see nongmin not being able to play though... looking forward to his liquibition match!
POGGERS
Sorrow
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States55 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-12 02:21:44
November 12 2009 02:20 GMT
#6
i fucking want with all my heart that nongmin SHOULD BE ALLOWED to enter

this article gets my hopes crushed and dreams strangled =[
Aresien
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United Kingdom305 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-12 02:42:45
November 12 2009 02:21 GMT
#7
A tough decision indeed.

Much respect to the admins for laying down the line even though i'm sure many will be dissapointed by the outcome. Hopefully he'll be back for TSL 3 as previously mentioned.

I must say though, dissapointed with the outcome myself. Saying he can play if he stays in the US for this period of time but not if he goes to Korea for a long holiday before university (again in the US) seems *gahhh*. It's not like he gains an advantage by being in a different country for the period of the tournament, regardless though, i'm sure this is set in stone now.
Thratur
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada917 Posts
November 12 2009 02:27 GMT
#8
I'm very sad for Nongmin

I still believe he should be allowed but I accept that decision.
bEsT[Alive]
Profile Joined July 2009
606 Posts
November 12 2009 02:28 GMT
#9
If you are to hold all the players to the same criteria then IdrA, ret and a few others wouldn't allowed to play based on condition number 2. I say let the man play.
If you obey all the rules you miss all the fun - Katharine Hepburn
Sorrow
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States55 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-12 02:30:10
November 12 2009 02:28 GMT
#10
this brings up the question in mind:

why the fuck is idra still allowed to enter, even granted as an exception? what's there to "except" for idra?

i mean, the dude's obviously been immersed in much more progaming scene than any of the other contestants, eligible or ineligible. so why is he still allowed?
Liquid`Nazgul
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
22427 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-12 02:30:52
November 12 2009 02:30 GMT
#11
On November 12 2009 11:28 Sorrow wrote:
this brings up the question in mind:

why the fuck is idra still allowed to enter, even granted as an exception? what's there to "except" for idra?

i mean, the dude's obviously been immersed in much more progaming scene than any of the other contestants, eligible or ineligible. so why is he still allowed?

On November 12 2009 11:28 bEsT[Alive] wrote:
If you are to hold all the players to the same criteria then IdrA, ret and a few others wouldn't allowed to play based on condition number 2. I say let the man play.

A player is eligible to play in the TSL if:
He grew up in a location without a professional StarCraft scene;
Administrator
Severedevil
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4838 Posts
November 12 2009 02:31 GMT
#12
I wouldn't count a temporary stay in Korea in between eight (projected) years of U.S. high school + college to be 'residing in Korea'. It sounds to me like he resides in the U.S., but is on a logistically forced vacation in Korea.

But I'm not fully informed about the situation, and it's not my call.
My strategy is to fork people.
GTR
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
51433 Posts
November 12 2009 02:31 GMT
#13
IdrA grew up in the United States, obviously somewhere with no established professional scene, as stated in the statement above.
Commentator
Kennigit *
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada19447 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-12 02:32:07
November 12 2009 02:31 GMT
#14
Read the news post again.

    A player is eligible to play in the TSL if:
  • He grew up in a location without a professional StarCraft scene; OR
  • He currently resides in a location without a professional StarCraft scene and is not affiliated with a professional StarCraft team; AND
  • He does not have connection lag that would significantly impact quality of play


Idra and ret both grew up in locations without professional starcraft scenes.
Severedevil
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4838 Posts
November 12 2009 02:33 GMT
#15
Out of curiosity, would a person who turned 18 before Broodwar came out automatically qualify for "grew up in a location without a professional Starcraft scene"?
My strategy is to fork people.
Amnesia
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3818 Posts
November 12 2009 02:35 GMT
#16
A shame that nongmin can't play. I truly am sad, but rules are rules.
NrG.NeverExpo
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada2114 Posts
November 12 2009 02:36 GMT
#17
Awesome this is great news!

I had a question about a korean friend who moved to australia a while ago, but i guess he's able to play. That's awesome thanks for clarification!
TwitteR: @NeverExpo follow me, i'll follow back :)
Thratur
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada917 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-12 02:39:27
November 12 2009 02:36 GMT
#18
Wouldn't an official poll be a good idea? I know we are not a democracy, and I accept your decision, but maybe most people would agree to allow him? It looks that you had to decide whether to grant an exception or not... Wouldn't it be possible for the community to make that decision?
NeoOmega
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States495 Posts
November 12 2009 02:42 GMT
#19
Liquibition nongminzerg vs skryoo1004, Im calling it right here.
Slithe
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States985 Posts
November 12 2009 02:43 GMT
#20
For those who are not familiar with logic operator precedence, this can be a bit ambiguous, especially because of the way it was written. The two interpretations:

1 OR (2 AND 3) ==> Correct Interpretation
(1 OR 2) AND 3

Under the second interpretation, one would think that no one from Korea is allowed to play. Maybe it would be good to reformat the rule so that people don't get confused about it?
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