EPTTSL Player Eligibility and Nongminzerg - Page 26
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Scooge
Iceland144 Posts
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Liquid`Nazgul
22427 Posts
We decided Nongming didn't fit the spirit of the tournament and did not grant him an exception That's exactly what the OP says. It has an explanation of the rules (=spirit of the tournament) and it looks into nongmins case of granting an exception. Sure we could have done it your way and not explained anything but I somehow don't think that would make us look better. | ||
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
On November 22 2009 02:00 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Are you saying tournaments shouldn't have allowed you to join? Are you going to say anything of value? My life wasn't like that so while I enjoy the flame attempts, stay on topic. When you go down this route instead it just accentuates that you have nothing to say except to redirect the topic. This decision makes TL look bad. I'm saying this for your sake, this has nothing to do with me. Don't be idiots and realize you made a mistake. Because here's what it reads: "He's a great guy who loves Starcraft and plays well! He's not a progamer, but he was born in the wrong place. Awww too bad." Denying someone who plays the game a tonne, and isn't on the proleague roster and would like to show off his skills is the exact opposite of the spirit of any tournament that wishes to give players a chance and make the community more active. "Active member of the community who is new is denied because he doesn't have enough background?" The rules would make more sense if you banned actual progamers from playing (aka IdrA) and let nong play. You made a mistake. Own up to it. | ||
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
On November 21 2009 20:23 mig wrote: Testie did you develop these expert insights on what's fair and whats not after or before you got caught hacking the third time? If this is how you reply to genuine posts, you are a tool. | ||
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Liquid`Nazgul
22427 Posts
On November 22 2009 04:00 MYM.Testie wrote: Are you going to say anything of value? My life wasn't like that so while I enjoy the flame attempts, stay on topic. When you go down this route instead it just accentuates that you have nothing to say except to redirect the topic. This decision makes TL look bad. I'm saying this for your sake, this has nothing to do with me. Don't be idiots and realize you made a mistake. Because here's what it reads: "He's a great guy who loves Starcraft and plays well! He's not a progamer, but he was born in the wrong place. Awww too bad." Denying someone who plays the game a tonne, and on the proleague roster and would like to show off his skills is the exact opposite of the spirit of any tournament that wishes to give players a chance and make the community more active. "Active member of the community who is new is denied because he doesn't have enough background?" You made a mistake. Own up to it. Unfortunately your post was filled with so much randomness I figured it was a troll. Apparently I'm wrong so I'll go through it for you. I don't know where you find the nerve to talk about whats fair and what's right for TSL. In TSL1 you qualified top 48 and were saying you were tired of SC. We told you that if you weren't planning on playing the tournament you should delete your account and everyone in the ladder would have moved up a spot. That way our tournament would not have dropouts/replacements. We talked to you about this and explained you why it is important for us not to have dropouts in our tournament and thus asked you to show up or delete your account in advance. You agreed to play the tournament. But.. where were you? You decided it wasn't worth your time after promising Manifesto that you'd be there. After spending countless of hours qualifying you decided the two hours it took you to play the tournament were not worth it. Instead of deleting your account you made us look like fools and were banned from TL for the remainder of the tournament. You come here sitting on your high horse after all the history you have. Still telling others what's right and wrong. You haven't bothered to read the previous 25 pages. You come in here without reading the topic and argue things that have been discussed and answered before. Nong should be able to play. Poorly worded OP to cover its ass but it's pretty obvious it doesn't sound right. Shouldn't deny the guy when he's passionate about the game. "If he makes himself more known to the foreign community." I heard an easy way to do that would be by playing in the biggest online foreign tournament. Aka giving him a chance. Did you read the part where it says initially Nongmin was allowed to participate under our rules, the same rules that are in the OP. After the rules were set we were informed that he wouldn't be located in the US. What does passion for the game have to do with anything? There's about a 1000 Koreans passionate about SC that could win TSL. Let them all join the fun and introduce them to the community by letting them play TSL! Brilliant stuff. If people who are currently playing as professional gamers are able to play, nong should be able to play. The whole 'grew up there and is now back' is such a load. Not like he's guaranteed to win, but despite 'accepting it' he still wants to play. It's a foreigner tournament. Idra and Ret are foreigners. Has nothing to do with Nongmin. Did you complain about Grrrr... and Smuft playing Canadian WCGs back in the day? What point are you making that because Idra is a professional nong should be able to play? You might as well have said because of people currently playing as professionals Flash should be able to play. You have a person currently playing as a progamer playing in this tournament, and another starting or soon to be or wherever the fuck Ret is. Either exclude everyone currently playing in korea, (this would actually be fair) or don't. This just doesn't fit. Do people want to see IdrA and Ret play against foreigners? Of course. But I'm sure they'd like to see the A zerg that streamed for them as well. He streamed for members on your site, and you basically give him the finger in the nicest way possible. That's low. Streaming on TL is not the all or nothing on how decisions are made. We realize he streamed for three months and has 12 posts on TL. Read Xeris' post on nongmins participation in the foreign scene to learn a bit more about the situation. It's in the topic. So you have active professionals playing against amateurs. That's not remotely fair. No matter how you slice it or pretty it up. The whole OP reeks. You don't benefit by being born in Korea or living there. The unfair advantage comes from you waking up and playing SC all day in a house devoted to playing SC all day until you drop, whereas the vast majority of the amateurs in the tournament don't play half as much. So let the man play. Hell, cast it to the TL members to vote. Because this decision doesn't smell right. At a time you were waking up and playing SC all day, playing with Koreans refining your skills. Yet you were joining every random bnet tournament available. The hypocrisy of your posting is disgusting. What about WCG where professionals mix with amateurs. WCG isn't the 40 best players in the world, it's the 4 best together with 36 amateurs. But we all deal with the rules they set because they want to have an international appeal. WCG knows that if it's about the best players it would solely be Koreans. They also know that if they wouldn't allow professionals they'd lose their appeal from the Korean scene. They do what they have to do. And I've never seen you raise your voice against it. | ||
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
TSL isant an amateurs tournament its a tournament for foreigners and no matter how you look at it ret and idra are 100% foreigners. Nongminzerg on the other hand isant so clear cut. He has only been part of the community for a few months and now hes going back to korea for an extended stay. From what I have heard his stay isant just a couple of weeks or anything but several months and theres no guarantee he will even come back. So what happens to TSL if nong wins and decides to stay in korea? Then you have the biggest foreigner tournament of all time won basically by an amateur korean player who played it from korea. It would kill a lot of credibility TSL has and would damage chances for future TSLs. I think its too big of a risk for TSL to grant a special exemption for someone who isant even a clear member of the foreigner community. Why would that look bad or hurt TSL's credibility? You have the hotkey signatures, not like he's going to up and fool you and have a super progamer play in the tournament. He lived in the US for the last 4 years. You could say, "Wow you did great! See you next TSL!" It doesn't really matter what nationality wins the tournament. And that's IF he won. The chances of that aren't super massively huge. It's not like Jaedong entered the tournament. He started participating in the foreign community before entering this tournament and lived abroad even. He's as 'foreign' as any other player in this tournament, he's just newer to the scene. Are you really going to go by post count? You are denying an eager competitor who genuinely seems to fit the bill for what is 'foreign' and wants to play and are making him sad by not allowing it. The only thing that makes you look bad in this topic is how you deal with people who voice their logical opinions on what they feel is an illogical set of rules. | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
If you think it's unfair to have tournaments with Idra and Ret in them, that's an entirely different discussion. Both of these players are clearly part of the foreigner community. They played in foreigner tournaments for years, and fans clearly want to see them play. There's a reason IEF invites Korean pros, or WCG allows them. Do you think these tournaments made mistakes too? It's obvious for ratings and interest that popular players be allowed to play. And as great as Nongmin is, he's not a popular player in the sense that very few people outside those who watch his stream know him, and he's played in 0 foreigner tournaments throughout his history. As I said earlier, even in this thread its 55 to 45 about whether we should let him play. Lastly, I'd like to implore people to not complain just because they have something against the TeamLiquid Staff. Testie is NOT eligible to play in the PokerStrategy.com TSL because of what he pulled last time -- informing us days before the qualifiers that he wasn't playing -- which forced us to scramble to find players and created an unfair situation for Dunaj and Horror. It's obvious someone who is banned from competition would want to criticize and bring down our league's credibility. Testie, is it really necessary to act out such personal vendettas against us? We are only trying to run a tournament for the community that you aren't even a part of any more -- just allow us to run this fun event instead of trying to tear us down. We don't need your biased negativity. We would have allowed you to play this time had you acted in a more professional manner during TSL1 -- it's a pity it had to turn out that way. | ||
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
Why the hell would I do that? I'm offering genuine advice that it would make you look good to allow him to play. This just got ridiculous on so many levels. Like, overly ridiculous. Just wow. | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
On November 22 2009 05:53 MYM.Testie wrote: This isn't personal, what on earth? What kind of sick troll is this? Bring down a league? What do I possibly have to gain for that. Furthermore, how can a few posts even go to that? I am not a petty person, nor do I harbor any vendetta. I thought I generally liked TL? Apparently I hate it? wtf? I can't bring down the league. Your post really makes no sense now and has gone overboard on the slander. This just got ridiculous on so many levels. Yes, because its not ridiculous that the bulk of the Nongmin discussion occurred the week of November 12, and you just happen to bump and whine and flame and do this on the day the ladder opens? That's just a coincidence right? I'm just pointing out how your bias influences your opinions here, and that people should know all the facts when reading someone who so clearly wants to harm our league. As much as you want us to discuss player eligibility for 3 months, please stop whining and let the fans and players and organizers focus their attention on running a good league. I think the community deserves that. Again, we have good intentions and are just trying to run a tournament that benefits everyone. | ||
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
On November 22 2009 05:58 MYM.Testie wrote: I didn't even read the topic a week ago. I didn't check it. I'm just late to the discussion. That's some serious paranoia HB and way off base. Anyway sorry I didn't really "bump" it as for me to notice it, it had to be in the top 5 threads. Anyway yes, I am done here. This is too ridiculous. Thank you for taking into consideration whats best for the community and TeamLiquid, and stopping your biased attack so we can focus on more important things, like ensuring a fair and well-run ladder so that our tournament can move forward to the qualifier stage that hopefully will have no drop outs or hackers. | ||
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Scooge
Iceland144 Posts
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
On November 22 2009 06:05 Scooge wrote: Why does Nongming need to be involved in foreign tournaments as a prerequisite for being apart of the foreign community? That seems an odd way to measure community involvement or contribution. And since this is mostly about Idra and Nongming and why one is given an exception and not the other, I'd just say I'd take Nongming's 3 months worth of streaming over Idra's tournament involvement and once in a blue moon snide remarks on these forums. I value it more. I'm really glad subjective people like you don't make up the rules. | ||
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Scooge
Iceland144 Posts
On November 22 2009 06:11 Holgerius wrote: I'm really glad subjective people like you don't make up the rules. I hope you were being ironic because that's exactly what's happening. Exception for player A, but not player B because we judge X, Y, Z subjectively. I'm over it. I like Nongming, but I know nothing is changing no matter what's posted. | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
On November 22 2009 06:21 Scooge wrote: I hope you were being ironic because that's exactly what's happening. Exception for player A, but not player B because we judge X, Y, Z subjectively. I'm over it. I like Nongming, but I know nothing is changing no matter what's posted. Look, if you were to make the rules you would obviously make them based on personal preference; you simply like Nongmin more Idra. The reasoning behind making an exception for Idra and not for Nongmin is not ''We like Idra more''. They have clearly stated that TSL is meant to be a foreign event; Idra is a foreigner, Nongmin is not, hence the exception. | ||
FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
On November 22 2009 06:05 Scooge wrote: Why does Nongming need to be involved in foreign tournaments as a prerequisite for being apart of the foreign community? That seems an odd way to measure community involvement or contribution. And since this is mostly about Idra and Nongming and why one is given an exception and not the other, I'd just say I'd take Nongming's 3 months worth of streaming over Idra's tournament involvement and once in a blue moon snide remarks on these forums. I value it more. ? "once in a blue moon snide remarks on these forums"? IdrA is very very active on TL | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
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WhuazGoodJaggah
Lesotho777 Posts
why does that even matter? is that some kinda rule? I didnt read any? how many days/weeks/months/years do you have to be active in the non korean community? it is also not like he became active in the community to grab all the prize money from the tourneys, the TSL was announced way after he showed clearly that he wants to be part of our community. it also doesnt matter why he did that, or that he did it after beeing already for what, ?3 years?, outside of korea. to me this whole shit looks a lot like "cronyism", à la "you're tha nu guy, we dont like nu guys, go home to your old friends, you didnt want us before now dont come and take part in our big events". a really low move from the administration. @Liquid_Nazgul your attack on Testie is very low, why talk so much about his person instead of the issue? it's very cheap to attack his fairness credibility when he brings up valid points. domestic policy not person policy is the real deal its about the cause not the people. | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
We're all sad for Nongmin, but we look forward to his Liquibition match in the future. | ||
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