TSL Player Eligibility and Nongminzerg - Page 25

On November 20 2009 21:28 Blue wrote:
especially since he will get stomped -_-

On November 20 2009 21:43 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
They won't be able to play from China we have done all kinds of testing but nothing works unfortunately. We are in talks about a few specific players working out something with their sponsor to fly them out to for example Singapore for the duration of TSL. We really hope something comes out of that but it's out of our hands at this point.

On November 18 2009 17:29 LibertyTerran wrote:
I've been following this thread since the beginning and here is my opinion.

What I find debatable in these rules are especially in two terms:
2a "He grew up in a location without a professional StarCraft scene OR"
2b "He currently resides in a location without a professional StarCraft scene AND is not affiliated with a professional StarCraft team"

*snip*

Rule 2b: some people didn't read rule 2a carefully and thus became angry about why Idra & Ret can play even though they are in Korea and in Proteam. These people should read Rule2a again and with the big OR after it. In this case, rule 2b basically blocks Nongming from playing TSL as he doesn't fit in Rule 2a and the rest of the Korean gamers who are in Korea during the TSL.

However, if an A, A+ Korean amateur wants to ruin the "foreign-only" characteristic of this tournament, he can just travel to another country that has good internet connection (Rule 1), slips through Rule 2b and steam-rolls the rest our foreign participants. The term "currently resides" in Rule 2b is defined very loosely (is 30-day tourist visa can be considered as "currently reside"?).

*snip

On November 20 2009 20:02 IdrA wrote:
thanks for arranging this for me guys

On November 13 2009 23:01 Plexa wrote:

For the record, lilsusie and uhjoo are both ineligible for the TSL.

On November 12 2009 19:20 Daigomi wrote:

Firstly, as has been said, all the staff really wanted Nongmin to participate. He is a fairly new member to the community, but his participation has been a great benefit to everyone in the community (as can be seen from the strong reactions of people who want him to play). However, the problem with allowing him play was two-fold.

Firstly, he did not fall within the rules of the tournament. Not only was he raised in Korea, and did he learn SC in a very advantageous environment (to the extent that he competed to become a progamer), but he would be in Korea for the entire duration of the tournament and much longer. To say he is taking a vacation in Korea is misleading. He is going home for at least 8 months, and for potentially as long as a year. So there is no denying that Nongmin falls outside of the rules of the tournament. However, TL has never been a place bogged down by rules, and we are willing to consider all important decisions on a case by case basis. This particular issue has been discussed from before the TSL was announced, and was discussed at length again yesterday.

This brings us to the second issue reason for not allowing Nongmin. As he falls outside of the rules, we would need to make an exception to allow him to play, an exception we considered making at length. Unfortunately, in the end, we felt that Nongmin was primarily still seen as a Korean rather than a foreigner (not by TL, but by the foreigner community as a whole). Nongmin has not immersed himself in the foreigner community over the last four years. He has not participated in foreign tournaments, and he has not been an active member of any community's until very recently. The fact that he did livestream and communicate with all the viewers was taken into consideration, and made our decision more difficult. However, in the end we decided two months as part of the livestream community was not enough to warrant an exception.

Now, we're not saying people must work for their right to participate in the TSL. What we are saying is that we needed to make an exception in this case, and that exception would have to be based on how much Nongmin was perceived as being foreign, and how much he was perceived as being Korean. Unfortunately, we felt that the majority of the community (especially those who don't frequent TL) would not see Nongmin as foreign, but rather as a Korean who is living in Korea, and who is going to participate in competitive tournaments within Korea. As such, we decided to not make an exception for him. However, as has been said, he is free to participate in TSL3 next season. If he is in the US for the TSL3, we won't even have to discuss allowing him to play. If this exact same situation occurs somehow, but he has obtained foreigner recognition by then, the decision will probably still lean in his direction.

So regarding how allowing him to play hurts the foreigner community, it hurts it by us not following sticking to our rules, and it hurts the community because of the perception of a non-foreigner competing in a foreign community. We need to be consistent, so exceptions will be rare and only occur if they are 100% warranted.

I hope this clears up you confusion

EDIT: Illu, and keep this discussion civil. I understand that you are upset, but becoming insulting and sarcastic is not going to help your case. Regarding Idra, we want to give Idra the opportunity to excel in whichever way they see fit. Are you suggesting that we go from providing the community with opportunities to excel to making sure they practice? And no, no matter how much you dislike Idra, we won't ban him on your opinions.

On November 21 2009 13:30 Kennigit wrote:
Uhjoo is a progamer and has been for many years. Of course we wouldn't allow him to play.

On November 21 2009 19:17 MYM.Testie wrote:
Nah this still stinks.

Nong should be able to play. Poorly worded OP to cover its ass but it's pretty obvious it doesn't sound right. Shouldn't deny the guy when he's passionate about the game. "If he makes himself more known to the foreign community." I heard an easy way to do that would be by playing in the biggest online foreign tournament. Aka giving him a chance.

If people who are currently playing as professional gamers are able to play, nong should be able to play. The whole 'grew up there and is now back' is such a load. Not like he's guaranteed to win, but despite 'accepting it' he still wants to play.

You have a person currently playing as a progamer playing in this tournament, and another starting or soon to be or wherever the fuck Ret is. Either exclude everyone currently playing in korea, (this would actually be fair) or don't. This just doesn't fit. Do people want to see IdrA and Ret play against foreigners? Of course. But I'm sure they'd like to see the A zerg that streamed for them as well. He streamed for members on your site, and you basically give him the finger in the nicest way possible. That's low.

So you have active professionals playing against amateurs. That's not remotely fair. No matter how you slice it or pretty it up. The whole OP reeks. You don't benefit by being born in Korea or living there. The unfair advantage comes from you waking up and playing SC all day in a house devoted to playing SC all day until you drop, whereas the vast majority of the amateurs in the tournament don't play half as much. So let the man play. Hell, cast it to the TL members to vote. Because this decision doesn't smell right.

The unfair advantage comes from you waking up and playing SC all day in a house devoted to playing SC all day until you drop, whereas the vast majority of the amateurs in the tournament don't play half as much.